7 Idiot Heroes Who Created Their Own Villains Through Sheer Stupidity

[@jamesputterlik225]

Not Mickey's first time crating his own villain. He's also responsible for his oldest nemesis, Pete. In Steamboat Mickey he steals Pete's boat, forever cementing him as an enemy. This moment is later revisited in Kingdom Hearts 2, where Sora actually helps him accomplish this, also cementing Pete as one of Sora's enemies.

[@benrusnak.929]

Sora always hated Pete a little anyways

[@GameJam230]

​@@benrusnak.929tbh, I don't think that's a defense of Sora lol. It kinda just makes him sound petty and spiteful when put that way.

[@PyroGothNerd]

Pete actually existed as a villain long before Mickey. He was originally created for the Alice comedies, used in Oswald the Lucky Rabbit, and then recycled for Mickey Pete was always a villain

[@richardkirkland6805]

​@@PyroGothNerdBut Steam Boat Willy made Pete one of Mickey's villains. And also, thanks to Epic Mickey we know that the Pete that appears in the Ozwald cartoons isn't the same Pete from the Mickey cartoons, because if they were they wouldn't be in the game. I think the only exception of characters who appear in Epic Mickey that are now in the main cast again are Clarabelle, and Oswald himself.

[@cleo8193]

@@PyroGothNerd but in that situation it wasn't the same exact character only the same artist and a Very similar character they don't share a back story or rather Pete cut ties with that back story

[@MidBoss666]

The way Dead Rising 3 tackled the "7 deadly sins" theme for it's bosses was truly amazing, Kenny as the "envy" was a really cool concept.

[@maninthemists2299]

And then there was the Gluttony fight. Yeesh.

[@MidBoss666]

@@maninthemists2299 as unsettling as she was, it was a creative and effective. Though biggest kudos go for Lust, instead of an oversexed domina, we got a depraved bisexual with a dick & balls shaped flamethrower XD

[@keeganlafferty1395]

Pride: the bodybuilder woman Sloth: the guy who dies of a heart attack when you make it to him after trashing his security system Lust: the guy with a flamethrower shaped like a . . . yeah Wrath: monk with anger issues Greed: a crazy doctor taking advantage of the situation to steal organs to sell

[@jbktpl1245]

​@@keeganlafferty1395The greed one disturbed me the most, personally....

[@CelticVictory]

@@jbktpl1245 Lust would disturb me, actually.

[@Sunprism]

I feel like people who just call Wheatley stupid are missing the point....He's not just stupid, he's programmed to make bad and illogical decisions to counteract GLADOS' logic. i.e. He's not just Dumb, He's doing an exceedingly good job at being the Stupidest AI ever

[@averyfields8183]

I love my noodle head characters, *cough cough* Chai from Hi-Fi Rush *cough cough*

[@QuickSilverKitsune]

He's so good at being dumb he's not an AI(artificial INTELLIGENCE), but an AS(Artificial Stupidity)

[@massgunner4152]

Sounds like stupid with extra steps

[@PanAndScanBuddy]

To paraphrase GLADoS: He's a product of the brightest minds to make the dumbest person who ever lived. And we just put him in charge of the facility.

[@averyfields8183]

@@PanAndScanBuddy *slow claps*

[@M_Alexander]

"The only thing worse than a genius with complete power is a total idiot with complete power" that's a strong line

[@ArkaneStephanie]

Still relevant today

[@datim2010]

I feel like Andy stopped reading the script and started reading the news lol

[@jardex2275]

2016-2020 called. They're wondering if they can come over again later.

[@M_Alexander]

@@jardex2275 and that's after 2001-2009 overstayed its welcome

[@AnonymousAnarchist2]

​@@M_Alexanderoh god.. I remember when we thought the nepo baby chimp was dumb... He seems postivitly brillant in comparison.

[@jacobisbell9388]

In Deathloop (spoilers obviously) the primary antagonist Julianna originally just wanted to be a librarian recording things as they happen throughout the timeloop, but because Colt (you) kept killing her over and over again she decided she'll start killing you to make up for it. And it's especially terrifying because Julianna is controlled by other players, so every trick you have she can do too

[@bilateralrope8643]

That might have been Colt's plan. Because repeatedly violently murdering someone seems to be the most reliable way to get them remembering previous loops once they start forgetting.

[@scorpiouskrimson]

I'm just realising that Epic Mickey has the same plot as Drawn to Life. A narcissist messes with powers beyond their control and in turn creates a shadowy threat that devastates a sweet world of innocent creatures... The difference being that in Epic Mickey, the hero is the guy who did that rather than the villain.

[@cmdraftbrn]

kind of mickeys thing. messes with a magic and chaos ensues. messes with a paintbrush and chaos ensues. mickey + plot object = chaos ensues

[@sweetpepino1907]

I conflate Drawn To Life with Drawn Together in my brain so I was REALLY, REALLY confused for about ten seconds

[@princesspixel3151]

As a huge fan of both Drawn to Life AND Disney (which they both are a huge part of my life to this day)… this is such a fridge moment that I’m just thinking… oh rapo…😰

[@staticradio724]

@@cmdraftbrn I was literally watching that entry thinking, "Isn't that the plot of Fantasia?"

[@cmdraftbrn]

@@staticradio724 yep

[@dyingstar24]

To be fair, the hacker was also facing getting shot in the head, ejected out into space, or both if he turned down Diego's offer, so TECHNICALLY it wasn't through sheer stupidity, more like a "for the love of God I had a gun pointed at my head" type of deal. Diegos intent was to merge himself with shodan once she reached critical mass, and he ends up succeeding, being shodans right hand cyborg. His biggest mistake was letting the hacker live

[@lanychabot-laroche135]

So the bad guy's plan was to become the AI's top henchman?

[@dyingstar24]

@@lanychabot-laroche135 in the note the hacker left in his stash he talks about it. It was more like he wanted to merge with shodan, and ended up being her biggest simp

[@AshenVictor]

@@lanychabot-laroche135 He didn't plan on that, it was just the best he could make of the situation. He'd planned on getting SHODAN to cover up the unethical bioweapons research he was doing by killing all the investigators and hiding the evidence. It turned out that unetical bioweapons research was like her second favourite thing though after making cyborg slaves.

[@wraithcadmus]

It's a difference between the original and remake. In the first game Diego talks about wanting to work with Shodan to make her new world, but it comes across as very insincere and improvised as he sells everyone else out to buy time, but gets borged anyway. Remake Diego feels like more of a believer.

[@billthebodyguy]

I can't tell if Andy has full reign on script writing or if he has infected Jane, but so many wrestling references. But "jabroni" was appropriate.

[@geofff.3343]

Jabroni kind of entered the common lexicon, probably due to Always Sunny using it as a big gag in one episode.

[@OratoryJamesIV]

​@@geofff.3343Eh, I'd say The Rock should get more credit for it than IASIP. He was using it consistently during the absolute zenith of WWF/E programming.

[@billthebodyguy]

@geofff.3343 "jabroni" came from kayfabe carny talk. Maybe Jane is a big fan of American traveling carnivals.

[@leafandryly]

They've said before that they don't always write the parts they say. Andy probably did write those bits

[@hikari1690]

I know jabroni from vegeta screaming it

[@GeneralNickles]

Lilith kinda/sorta created handsome Jack by punching the vault symbol into his face at the end of Borderlands the pre-sequel. This gives him the visions of the future that led to him becoming the head of Hyperion.

[@callumdonington2227]

Damn you're right

[@dennistfossettjr]

Thank you

[@twilightvulpine]

No way you can blame Lilith for the rampant megalomaniac narcissist that is Handsome Jack. He had already trapped his daughter Angel and was using her powers for his gain. He was already a villain.

[@joemama-zm4de]

@@twilightvulpine he was already evil, yes, but he wouldn't have been the character that he was if lilith hadn't falcon punched him in the face - same levels of evil, different persona type deal

[@randogamer2643]

​@@twilightvulpinebut you can definitely blame the hate for vault hunters on Lilith, since she betrayed him.

[@ethanchenoweth]

This is the first time I’ve seen anything epic Mickey in over 10 years. I was starting to think it was a fever dream.

[@dragonfenix9080]

bro I literally *did* think it was all a fever dream at one point

[@apinkchameleon]

Same here! I actually went through it again recently since I got it as a gift when I was little, as I never was able to beat it 😅

[@FIamestalker]

André doesn't transform into a giant winged monster, he convinced Reflux (a Knaaren with a grudge against Rayman) to turn into a giant winged monster.

[@globox1998]

Im a big Rayman fan and hearing that was so frustrating

[@TheShuuman]

@@globox1998 Ditto

[@breadstone58]

I can’t believe Kirby wasn’t mentioned, he helped Nightmare, Marx, and Magalor all become gods.

[@DrawciaGleam02]

Nightmare might be a tossup honestly...

[@littlefox_100]

The egg

[@someone6531]

Kirby was manipulated, and besides, they all got a taste of their own medicine from the same being they manipulated. Kirby. Besides, Marx and Magalor became good after they were defeated by Kirby

[@M_Topia_Goddess]

I love the egg

[@RevenantNeverDies]

debatable tbh, marx still look evil @@someone6531

[@queen_pingu8929]

I would argue Lilith from Borderlands series. Yes, Handsome Jack was on a downward spiral and was already not a great guy, but her betraying Jack by trying to kill him on the station then later punching the vault onto his face was what truly broke him and made him become "Handsome Jack", leading to Roland being killed, Mordecai losing Bloodwing, and everything else that happened in Borderlands 2.

[@ryanahr2267]

If that's what you think then you weren't paying attention during Pre-Sequel. He was always that unstable. He kept it mostly beneath the surface in the first half of the game but it came out more and more as the game went along

[@chanchunphang4781]

@@ryanahr2267 Then again, EVERYONE in the borderlands series is unstable to some extent or another (except maybe Roland). The idiocy comes in when Lilith, for no apparent reason, decides to break Jack further instead of either letting him go normally, or killing him.

[@daviddiggens8841]

​@@chanchunphang4781I just finished that very game for the first time yesterday oddly enough and that's exactly the impression I got. Jack certainly wasn't a "hero", instead being an slightly unhinged self serving sociopath, but then again half of the game characters are like that. Hell, tiny Tina gets off on explosions and torturing people yet no one, I assume, thinks she's a villain. Jack was at the brink, yet could have been pulled back, but Lilith opted to push him over, and unintentionally granted him the power required for his success, thus turning him into the villain we know ( and thank God for it).

[@raimarulightning]

​@@ryanahr2267You weren't paying attention when reading the comment.

[@sapphocortez2287]

And she disregarded angel's warning not to go to the core.

[@Cuiasodo]

Just how many Dracula origin stories does the Castlevania series have? In addition to Matthias, I'm pretty sure Gabriel Belmont ALSO became a vampire and named himself Dracula, so... is Dracula just like the first choice in the Big Book of Vampire Baby Names or...?

[@BranBal]

2 origins But only Mathias in Lament of Innocence is canonical Gabriel Belmont is from Lord's of Shadows timeline

[@nicholascross3557]

I believe that book actually starts with Alucard.

[@arroncunningham9866]

3, actually. There was a Gameboy title with a female protagonist. At the end, she holding a baby (heavily implied to be Alucard's) and declaring her family will hunt Dracula forever. That was retconned out for Lament, which has been chronological ever since.

[@ARMsMaster]

@@arroncunningham9866 You're referring to Castlevania Legends, right? If so, the female protagonist is Sonia Belmont, and the baby she is holding isn't Alucard. The baby is the child of her and Alucard.

[@arroncunningham9866]

@@ARMsMaster I knew it started with an S, thanks. Did I misword that? I thought it was obvious that I said Alucard's child.

[@KHShadowGamer45]

On the subject of Mickey creating villains, there's Anti-Aqua in Kingdom Hearts III. When Aqua fell into darkness, half of the reason is because of how Mickey left her in the realm of Darkness for 10 years

[@garrettvance4686]

That is actually a misconception caused by a vague translation. Yes, she was in the realm of darkness for ten years, but Mickey was only actually aware of it in the last year of her being trapped there

[@mcburgerfjg]

I am surprised the hero/dark wanderer of the Diablo series is not on this list. He was the hero in D1 and then became/created the villain by falling for the same corruption as the guy he just saved everyone from.

[@Alsebra]

Likely because, just like any of the other big bads, Diablo was created long before the events of the game...he just took over appropriate vessels until the Dark Wanderer made the stupid decision to try to contain the evil by jamming Diablo's soulstone into his head. Basically, the Dark Wanderer accelerated the plans by both venturing deep into the Hell gate (bringing Diablo a mobile vessel) and inserting Diablo's soul into himself; this sped up Diablo's escape immensely and gave him a way to "sneak" out "safely" and, almost immediately thereafter, expand his sphere of influence by having a child (who bore part of his soul).

[@nonamenoname9550]

No, it was Diablo's plan all along. You should study history of Sanctuary more to avoid such mistakes. 'Dark Wanderer' is in fact main hero of first game tricked by Diablo into plunging his soulstone in head to contain him... not for long though. It's all Diablo's master plan. It's always his plan. Every time you defeat him, he was not only ready, but also planned his 'defeat' to return even stronger. In D3 he returned through his daughter to unite all Prime Evils under his command in one body. Can't wait for proper continuation of his plans (D4 is not really 'Diablo' game), there is no way he hadn't foreseen being defeated by Nephalem. But all of this have nothing to do with this video as Diablo the Prime Evil of Terror had existed long before creation of humanity and Sanctuary.

[@azuredragoon2054]

How about 7 bosses you could kill with Gravity (fall damage)? The one that comes to mind for me is the Solo Dragonrider in Dark Souls 2. You can make him charge off the edge of his arena and plummet into the waters below.

[@Eric-bq8nd]

Taurus Demon

[@nicholasfarrell5981]

I don't know if this counts as "killing", but in older versions of Morrowind you could knock Dagoth Ur into a lava pit from which he couldn't attack you during his second phase, making the destruction of the Heart of Lorkhan far easier.

[@OratoryJamesIV]

Every Battle Arena Toshinden character. 😂

[@Janoha17]

Arch Curate Vyrthur (Skyrim: Dawnguard) His second phase can be defeated with a single Fus Ro Dah to send him over the railing to his death (though you'll need some mountaineering/Become Ethereal to get his unique armor)

[@lnsflare1]

All of them from the Gravity Rush series.

[@endarkculi]

I'd like to nominate Travis Touchdown for a Commenter's Edition. In No More Heroes, he didn't HAVE to slaughter all those guys from Pizza Butt; he could've just mowed lawns and collect coconuts to earn the cash he needed to fight other Assassins. But he did slaughter all those guys, and then the last surviving member of that family ends up being the Final Boss of No More Heroes 2.

[@qwertyzorovague]

"Wait... this guy is the villain... BECAUSE OF A GOD DAMN SIDEQUEST?!" - TheQuarterGuy

[@noamz9527]

WOW, the Rayman part blew my mind. I played this game a lot as a child and never understood it was a flashback. I always just assumed Rayman's hands brought the black lum back after we defeated him.

[@globox1998]

Same. I played this game so many times but never realised it.

[@serPomiz]

it's not, it's litterally the (unused) hook for the sequel, like razorbeard escape was in 2 this was their less precise entry in a long while, "we only read the wrong synopsis" level of wrong

[@lucymumma8840]

Good to hear that other people have played epic mickey, and that it wasn't some sort of weird fever dream of mine.

[@BJGvideos]

The hero of Pokémon Legends Arceus creates a villain from a different game in the series. By being such an exemplar, you inspire Cyllene, who says she's going to pass these lessons on through her family line. Problem with that is that she's the ancestor of professional god complex haver Cyrus, leader of Team Galactic and your future enemy.

[@miraculousmoonsanddragons]

Arguably, it is still your greatest enemy, because I'm like 90% sure the time travelling protagonists of PLA are literally just Lucas and Dawn of DPP

[@kcollier2192]

No doubt Jane only breaks out her Vampire Befriender whip during Vampire: The Masquerade cos plays. I wonder if it comes with a Michelle Pfeiffer like Catwoman suit?

[@MyRegardsToTheDodo]

Ok, you can stop drooling now...

[@theaikidoka]

One can only hope. Pics or it didn't happen...

[@Starcrash6984]

In Maniac Mansion 2: Day of the Tentacle, you have to fix the problem because you freed the purple tentacle like an idiot.

[@azuredragoon2054]

There's also the fact the professor didn't properly dispose of his toxic waste, which gave Purple Tentacle the arms he needed to conquer the world.

[@killminewin4733]

Not sure if it counts but Penny creating Team Star in Pokémon Scarlet and Violet. They originally were a little safe group for victims of bullying to get together and rally a payback for being bullied, but over time they became as demanding, obnoxious and pestering as the bullies were, trying to pressure people into joining Star.

[@BJGvideos]

Star weren't villains though. They were heroes with bad press who gave up trying to fight it.

[@killminewin4733]

@@BJGvideos But they didn’t do too much to deny it. Just ignoring bad press doesn’t mean you’re not a bad group. Also, I did say I wasn’t sure if it counted

[@BJGvideos]

@@killminewin4733 They tried but the old administration got rid of the evidence

[@emmanorman8172]

I would count it as gamefreak themselves call team star (evil) in all of the trailers for the game before being released.

[@killminewin4733]

@@emmanorman8172 And, while Turo and Sada are the Main Antagonists to your character and Arven, Team Star is the Main Antagonist to Penny, who is one of the main characters

[@SolaScientia]

I love the Portal games so much. I love Wheatley, but I love teaming up with GLaDOS even more. Her increasing frustration and anger with him is hilarious. I wouldn't say it's entirely sheer stupidity, although it's a very sound argument, but the whole complicated deal with Comstock and Booker Dewitt is an interesting one.

[@UnrealMisterD]

"I guarantee you Dracula stopped learning their names after Belmont number 5". You jest, but I'm pretty sure that's EXACTLY what happened in the Anime.

[@tayloredwards1675]

Mickey may have been dumb messing around with the paint and thinner, but he did do one thing right: bringing Oswald back into the spotlight ❤

[@mr.mcnerdo]

Most of these heroes aren’t idiots, but I will never disagree with someone calling Mickey Mouse an idiot.

[@LunaP1]

Have you seen Fantasia? Yen Sid told him to clean up and not to touch the magic cap. He messed with the magic cap just to have the cleaning equipment do all the work for him. It goes south real fast.

[@stevenn1940]

Yeah, belmont in particular, no way to see that coming

[@rabbit0664]

Agreed.

[@SolaScientia]

@@LunaP1 That's honestly my favorite Disney movie and Mickey getting in trouble at the end of his bit is always great.

[@Mannu-ou6vz]

"Thank you for removing my moral constraints. I'm sure there's a special word for people like you."

[@homerman76]

I remember accomplishing this in Shadow of Mordor, there was one orc that killed me while my friend had me try the game out on his file. I then proceeded to hunt this orc down and mark him several times because death was "too good for him.". Long story short, this orc also managed to climb the ranks and take over as ruler of the area 😂

[@MasterZebulin]

Lol, that wasn't a very smart move.

[@13shadowwolf]

Dracula has gotten to the point where he just refers to any of them as "The Belmont" There was a specific line in the Anime when Trevor tries to punch Dracula.

[@michaelmanherz7918]

What about Star-Lord and Rocket in the Guardians of the Galaxy game? They both decide to raid a closed off quarantine zone and end up unleashing an all powerful god-like entity that nearly takes control of the whole galaxy. Makes you think that the zone was quarantined for a reason.

[@PanAndScanBuddy]

Specifically grabbing an infinity stone that burns.

[@zacharysmith4856]

A good list. What about Kotor? You play the person who creates the army they fight and is responsible for the corruption of the main villain.

[@markkuijpers3818]

But not through stupidity. Darth Revan was brilliant by most any measure in his approach during the Jedi Civil War. It can be argued the stupidest thing he did was discounting Malak's shortsightedness

[@loren6102]

What about kirby with magalor he pulled the same exact trick as marx but he still fell for it.

[@ddsjgvk]

OOT you left the door open for ganondorf

[@zacharysmith4856]

@@markkuijpers3818Hello! I see your point, but I would disagree only because of what I remember from the EU. Revan was a tactical genius, but they, based on what I remember from the lore, did one of two things: 1. Saw the Sith and thought the only way to prepare was through fighting… 2. Saw the Sith Emperor and thought… “Malak and I can take this guy out without help.” Neither seems too smart, but I could be missing some facts. I’m trying to reconstruct this from memory.

[@luscinius2933]

@@zacharysmith4856 Eh, it's more like Revan thought that Republic is fucked and decided to build a united Empire to prepare for a future Sith invasion.

[@slenderminion2229]

Tiny correction with André, he's not the one transforming into a gigantic winged monster. That would be Reflux, the dangerous Knaaren champion he teams up with later on in the game. André spends the battle inside of Reflux, attempting to use his newfound godly energy to multiply himself infinitely and create an unstoppable swarm of black lums.

[@TheWretchedOwl]

Why do I feel like Jane really does have a whip at home that she uses to “befriend vampires?” 😅

[@sozaj]

Because she's intense

[@damp2269]

as I was reading this I got to the word "home" and thought this sentence was going somewhere else.

[@azraelle6232]

@@damp2269 "Is that the whip you use to befriend vampires?" "...Sure, we'll go with that."

[@damp2269]

@@azraelle6232 I cannot confirm or deny that I have been researching ways to become a vampire.

[@1012-v9r]

Likely because she reads Twilight.

[@kay_faraday]

I'd say Captain Qwark and Dr. Nefarious from the third Ratchet and Clank game, if Qwark counted as a hero..... but still might be worth discussing.

[@bthsr7113]

Most people don't go supervillain from High School bullying. And if you mean him becoming a killer robot, he was already a mad scientist before hand. But yeah, Captain Quark is no hero.

[@kay_faraday]

@@bthsr7113 Yeah but... it counts for something, right?

[@loren6102]

What about kirby with magalor

[@kay_faraday]

@@loren6102 I think that's more the villain tricking the hero

[@fanofmediastuff269]

You know I was thinking on that too. But does it really counts? I mean it was a cutscene from Qwarks Comic Vids and it wasnt Ratchet

[@dorianwiesner4477]

I'm just happy that you finally involved Epic Mickey in one of your videos. I love this game with every beat of my heart.

[@briansanders8122]

Don't forget about Lady Lucktopus from Psychonauts 2, the result of a single mental connection in Agent Forsythe's mind all because Raz wanted to go on a mission with the real agents.

[@min0uet]

Come on, that's not quite fair. He got pressured into it by the other interns, all of whom are older teenagers and had already been bullying him. If Psychonauts 2 is going to get a hero idiocy entry, it'd better go to the entire intern group.

[@briansanders8122]

@@min0uet What about the Milkman?

[@min0uet]

@@briansanders8122 That doesn't really come off as idiocy to me. Freeing the Milkman is played off the entire level as a good thing, only to have a plot twist when you do find him. Idiocy would be if Raz ignored clear warning signs that this was a bad idea, like there are in Hollis's level with him saying he's not sure he should be doing this.

[@jardex2275]

@@briansanders8122 Milkman is fair. While Lobato implanted the Milkman personality, Raz was the one that unleashed it, leading to the asylum burning down.

[@Beowolf-jy5rc]

@@jardex2275 it was olianda who made the milkman not loboto.

[@JachymorDota]

Bonus points for the bogus plot of Battle Block Theater, where the Heroes create the villain for the next game, Pit People, with an even more bogus plot, but more *EMOTIONS*.

[@SoulZenmuron]

Would you create a list of heroes who mistakenly rescued the villain? I'd like to know the many ones beside Singularity

[@michaelandreipalon359]

The Witcher 1 could be an example.

[@SoulZenmuron]

@@michaelandreipalon359 what happened there? I haven't played it yet, but what did Gerald do to save the villain?

[@michaelandreipalon359]

@@SoulZenmuron Becoming their ward, for one.

[@rsj2877]

FE7's Elliwood/Hector with saving prince Ezekiel who ends up among many things, killing the latter of the two in FE6.

[@JuzefaWingedCat]

Does Hollow Knight sawing Zoat count? 😂

[@marcthenarc868]

Just hear Kenny's voice as regains confidence and you know that's not going to end well. The game casts that voice so perfectly.

[@Edward256]

Mickey played with the wizard's wand in Fantasia, and now playing with his paint. Never learns, does he...

[@angstqueen9360]

The shadow blot actually gave me nightmares as a kid, way back when it was a new game. Still haven't finished Epic Mickey because of that. That, and when I tried to go back, it was really slow compared to what I usually play...

[@JesseR2571]

Hyped for the long-awaited release of the third game in the Epic Mickey series, Epic Mickey: Wrath of Farrant

[@quelanathecrow]

a great list!! I loved the subtle "I keep that at home" about the vampire-befriending whip ^.^ oh my!!

[@TheZoenGaming]

I remember the artwork for Epic Mickey in a mag preview was pretty grim and dark. I'm not sure what happened, but it's obvious that Warren Spector's vision of the game was discarded by Disney.

[@minstrelofmoria]

He talked about how focus groups took his portrayal of early, morally ambiguous Mickey as "messing with their childhood."

[@TheZoenGaming]

@@minstrelofmoria I'd probably have been interested in playing his game. I love a story where the protagonist struggles to make the "right" decision. I don't always agree with the decision they make, but it's enjoyable to see them come to it.

[@Beowolf-jy5rc]

i think some of what you are talking about was the epic micky team trying to find the line between good & to far, which they tried to find out by pushing it as far as possible.

[@lpfan4491]

I love the game's story, but it is really meh that they removed the dark path of the game that they clearly planned. It just doesn't make sense to somehow still be a friend and correct your misdeeds if you have made the wrong choice the entire game. The literal only consequence before the ending is secondary characters not liking you and a depressing music theme if you thin the world too much. And that is just lame.

[@TheZoenGaming]

@@lpfan4491Hey, what do expect from Disney? They've been making everything they touch lame for a long time. This may just be the first instance of the trend.

[@Frankly_Amazing2000]

17:12 Thanks a lot Andy, now I’m relaxing to calming music and getting my chores done. You are truly a monster

[@tarnim80]

If I remember my Soul Calibur lore correctly this aplies to Siegfried as well. When he was tempted into wielding the evil blade Soul Edge it led to the the creation of his nemesis Nightmare.

[@boobah5643]

Well, OG Nightmare _is_ Siegfried, and the first canon appearance of Siegfried post-Soul Edge he's more-or-less Nightmare, Soul Caliber edition. And the game makes clear that while Soul Caliber is the antithesis of Soul Edge, neither sword is exactly 'good;' it's more of an order vs. chaos thing. Later entries in the franchise may have retconned some or all of this, of course.

[@tarnim80]

@@boobah5643 yeah, I believe that in SC3 Siegfried rejects Soul Edge and frees himself but that causes Nightmare to arise as a separate entity.

[@JudgeMagisterSnow]

Siegfried isn't exactly an idiot. Succumbing to a higher power like Soul Edge isn't stupid. He kinda, like much of the world, believed that it was a sword capable of allowing him to become a savior. Because that's what the legends said. And then, he broke free. Again, he's not an idiot. He was just weak. This list is very much about the former, not the latter.

[@scottkamps1270]

@@JudgeMagisterSnow I'm inclined to disagree with your assessment. *SPOILER ALERT* In his story, Siegfried is said to have fallen into despair and madness after he killed his father. He then(on his own) made up a narrative that his father was murdered by someone else and that Soul Edge would grant him revenge. From there, we know what happens. I would argue that while he was indeed weak, Siegfried still created his own enemy through that weak stupidity; first in his mind, then literally later when he managed to break free of Soul Edge.

[@JudgeMagisterSnow]

@@scottkamps1270 Weakness is not the same as stupidity, and trauma is very much not something that makes us stupid. He accidentally killed his father. He chased a false narrative because his mental health took a heavy blow. That's very different. Did he create his biggest enemy? Absolutely. But his wasn't borne out of idiocy. It was grief and hope and eventually willpower that created Nightmare as a separate entity from himself.

[@kylepeters8690]

the funniest part for the castlevania entry is not only does he look like a vampire, but the english version mathias is also voiced by an actor who had just started playing dracula (one of the best too) in an anime a mere two weeks before the game released.

[@CommanderNoob]

Epic Mickey was and will always be a part of my PTSD. The blob, the professor's mechanical monstrosity, and the clock tower are pure nightmare fuel.

[@supercamborg4218]

The music for the clock tower fight is so intense and creepy

[@fanofmediastuff269]

Darrius Mason, Red Faction Armageddon Yea it was technically Adam Hale who orchestrated the events and tricked Darrius into releasing the plague. But Darrius still released the alien threat and struggles throughout the game trying to fix his problem

[@TheManInTheLongBlackCoat]

Kain from Legacy of Kain, who was assassinated by assassins, creating their villain who was then resurrected and assassinated those assassins, then created Raziel who he destroyed, then created his villain who was then resurrected and went off to assassinate Kain.

[@adammellinger7105]

Only to realize raziels destiny was to be soul that the reaver needs to be made whole.

[@boobah5643]

Neither Kain nor Raziel are villains; both are trying to do the right thing (OK, on Kain's part, at least, he's _also_ trying really hard to not die again) in the shitty circumstances they found themselves in. Also, neither were created accidentally, they were the products of bizarre, convoluted plans involving time travel.

[@STRAKAZulu]

“…not the Vampire Befriender. I keep that one at home.” I am both frightened and aroused.

[@stryder8460]

My question is, was anyone actually surprised that Jane has a whip at home?.....anyone?

[@gruggerduggerhoose]

*scare-oused

[@raimarulightning]

So are the vampires

[@questworldiangreenknight7455]

😂😂😂😂

[@AMan-sp4op]

I really wished they leaned way in more on the creepy ashtetic when they were first drafting epic mickey as a game. It would have been so interesting to see Disney in such a more dark and dreary way. Like dark as in like black cauldron and those dark age Disney films

[@StephSinalco]

Stephen Merchant's work as Wheatley is absolutely incredible. I loved every single second of his performance in this game.

[@willyum3920]

I love your list videos and I understand you have a tight schedule but remember when you used to do the videos where you talked about your own personal experiences with video games. Those were great and I miss them. I would love to hear someone shouting from off screen about whatever you're saying. Its much more personal and as my most favourite parasocial pals, I would love to be in that world. Whatever you do, thank you for all the content, I'm so grateful.

[@elafimilo8199]

Ditto

[@pkmntrainerred7267]

Of course Dracula stopped learning names, his greeting is now "You must be the Belmont"

[@yoshipro6492]

I’m so glad Epic Mickey is getting the representation it deserves! It’s an underrated Wii gem with loads of missed potential, in my opinion.

[@Mo-Joe99]

I feel like Master Chief should definitely be on this list. Cortana’s eventual robot rebellion and everything after could have definitely been prevented if he had just ctrl-alt-deleted her like he was supposed too.

[@fanofmediastuff269]

Wait! Master Chief releases the Didact. And if not that he and the humans released the Flood

[@juanlaise1059]

Inaccurate Cortana helped him against the Flood and the Covenant. And while she was growing unstable in Halo 4, she is the only reason MC defeated Didact.

[@daviddaugherty2816]

​@juanlaise1059 Also, he thought she _did_ die.

[@K1000Master]

I mean, to be fair, you wouldn't want to delete the digital lady inside your head who calls you "studmuffen", now would you?

[@thedaveed1]

@@fanofmediastuff269 It was actually the Covenant that released the Flood. Both times. On Installation 04 the humans might have unlocked the door the Covenant had locked to try to keep the Flood from spreading, but the Covenant released it from the actual containment that was designed for the Flood. Remember, the cutscene only showed Key's group opening the door, there were other areas the Flood were coming from as well. And yes, I did say both times. Installation 04 and 05. We wouldn't have had to deal with the flood after CE if the Covenant was actually competent at following the signs the Forerunners left. Well, maybe in the initial Arbiter missions on the planet that was next to 04. But other than that, no more Flood.

[@jackshizuho1491]

Final Fantasy Origins I just beat it this year, and it was thanks to the Lufenians that Jack Garland became Chaos all to stop the "Gods" from playing with their lives.

[@apinkchameleon]

To give Mickey some benefit of the doubt, I don't think he realized that he was messing with a real world, as once he's pulled in and realizes what he's done, he becomes remorseful, actually admits to it (which is an important plot point) and helps defeat the blot

[@anarky1765]

I’d suggest the inverse of villains who created their heroes, but I’m sure that list would be way too long to fit into a single video.

[@MrAuthor3DS]

Hoo boy, may I offer some candidates? (Metroid) Ridley (Samus Aran) (Mother 3) The Pigmask Army (Lucas) (Fire Emblem Awakening) Validar (Robin) (Fire Emblem Engage) Sombron (Alear) (Metal Gear Solid 2) Solidus Snake (Raiden) (Xenoblade Chronicles) Zanza (Shulk) (Castlevania) Dracula (Alucard) (Persona 4) Izanami (Yu) (Persona 5) Yaldabaoth (Joker) (Kingdom Hearts) Ansem (Riku), Organization XIII (Xion) (Skullgirls) Medici Family (Peacock, Ms. Fortune, Squigly, Big Band)

[@DanStaal]

@@MrAuthor3DS Tomb Raider series works as well - Trinity actively encouraged and hunted the Crofts, alternating between trying to recruit them and to kill them, leading to Lara basically making it her mission to destroy them.

[@Jonathon_Hennessey]

Mundus from Devil May Cry. A group of demons following his orders attacked the childhood home of series protagonist Dante and killed his mother Eva in retaliation for Sparda waging a one man war against the underworld.

[@PanAndScanBuddy]

This channel thrives off having lists too long for one video

[@Droidsbane]

Benny from New Vegas and Kellogg from Fallout 4. I mean Benny shot the Courier in the head, which lead to them seeking revenge, and then Kellogg does the same thing though instead he killed their spouse and kidnapped Shaun and once they were let out, were determined to find him and Shaun

[@InfernotheFox]

Ratchet and Clank 3's Dr. Nefarious. Captain Quark, a hero turned villain turned hero again ended up creating the primary antagonist of the game (and reoccurring threat of the series) through events explained through the games series of Vid Comics. Quark created the robotic villain by bullying the "Squishy" version of him during their younger school years and then inadvertently knocking Nefarious into a bunch of gears, seemingly killing him. But as it turned out, Nefarious got a big metallic upgrade and ended up trying to return the favour on Quark in the following 2 Vid Comics before attempting to turn the entire universe into robots like it's a Sonic the Hedgehog cartoon from the late 90's.

[@staticradio724]

In fairness to Chell, though, I really didn't see Wheatley's betrayal coming either. I thought I had seen enough Dreamworks movies to know a chatty comic relief character when I saw it.

[@daviddaugherty2816]

And now I'm suddenly glad no one gave Donkey any power.

[@boobah5643]

@@daviddaugherty2816 He just has a scary red dragon lady as his main squeeze. Certainly no power in that.

[@chanchunphang4781]

@@boobah5643 On the other hand, he does have way too many kids to look after...

[@Green-vw5vr]

I wish other games used the nemesis system. Shame its copyrighted

[@Dabbewear8382]

What about Lilith from the Borderlands series? The Pre-Sequel revealed that by scarring Handsome Jack,she caused him to go insane,setting up the events of Borderlands 2.

[@TroboTicTac]

In the Crash Bandicoot games, its the exact opposite Cortex mutates crash and out of sheer negligence, fails the process.. causing Cortex's downfall

[@GreenGuyGeno]

I'd never thought I get to see Rayman 3 being talked about in 2023

[@phildman132]

12:33 is an excellent editing transition

[@ThePhantomStinker]

I feel like Spec-Ops: The Line should count. It's a common misconception that the main character, Walker, has been hallucinating the whole time. The truth is that he doesn't start doing that until that opening mission, after which the events of the game are played the way Walker remembers them. Or, more accurately, the way he ends up remembering them while trying to make sense of all the horrible shit he's witnessed (and, in some cases, done) since then. Lt. Colonel Konrad, spoiler alert, has been dead from the start. But after so much shit that isn't just horrible and pointless, Walker ends up imagining a villainous Konrad because it makes more sense to him than everything just being shit for everyone by default. "If there were no god, it would be necessary to invent him." So said Voltaire. The same, one could say, is true of the devil. Which, ironically, is a sufficient coping mechanism. Walker needed a reason to keep living through events during which his real enemy was just life in general; something to keep moving towards when everything otherwise seemed aimless and futile.

[@TokenDrew]

Oh sweet it's been so long since I seen a "new" episode. I've been stuck in a loop watching your 8 YEARS AND TWO CHANNELS WORTH OF CONTENT.

[@fanofmediastuff269]

Captain Nathaniel Renko, Singularity The agent goes back in time and accidentally rescues a Soviet scientist Dr. Nikolai Demichev who turned into the main antagonist of the game. Heck Nathaniel went back in time to stop himself but died in the process

[@chuckclark3214]

It's entertaining for me to see Mickey on the title card for me, considering I'm currently slowly making my way through Epic Mickey.

[@chadjones1266]

Video idea: villains who created you. Probably way easier.

[@averyfields8183]

Hi-Fi Rush.

[@colinpartridge4015]

Comix Zone. The main character literally created the antagonist and enemies. It took a weird magic storm thing to bring Morbius to life, but had he been a manga artist, the story would have played out a lot differently.

[@paperluigi6132]

I think a similar and more interesting topic would be “Heroes who were forced to become villains”, be it through blackmail, not being appreciated, or having everything taken from them. Of course, a few examples I can think of are massive spoilers for their respective games, so I won’t list any.

[@KOU-ZAI]

Somehow, Andy's jab at 12:59 - 13:10 got a laugh outta me, considering all the news that surrounds Disney nowadays. XD

[@angelitabecerra]

*Why is Borderlands not on this list!?* Literally Lilith, Roland, and Moxxi are responsible for Handsome Jack becoming the Handsome Jack we all love to hate in Borderlands 2 by their actions in the Pre-Sequel. Handsome Jack is one of the best video game villains of all time. And he was *made* by your protagonists, the characters you play as in the first game, and assist in the second game. Should be on this list

[@chanchunphang4781]

Lilith more than the rest because WTF punch someone in the face so badly you leave permanent scars and leaving them alive (and still in charge of a megacorporation) so they can plot your eminent demise, as opposed to just killing them?

[@jacobdelay2605]

That last mention is quite similar to warframe when you have to deal with an enemy you 'mercy' before that then gets a huge upgrade and forces you to do all sorts of nonsense to figure out a requiem mod combination that will ruin their self regeneration enough to defeat them and either ultimately kill them and take their weapon or recruit them as a summonable helper.

[@karaquinn14]

I'd go a step further with Shadow of War and say Bruz is the enemy Talion created. He's the first captain you recruit, he helps you through ever step of building the army, leads the assault on the fortress, and then is passed over for every possible promotion. I was so annoyed that you're physically prevented from naming him Overlord.

[@crimsonchaos7224]

Both Kirby Super Star and Kirby’s Return to Dreamland have Kirby instantly trust someone who he’s literally just met and help them with their plan, neither time going well. Both times his “friend” is just manipulating him and backstabs him at the last second, becoming the final boss of the game.

[@gregorlangemeier4116]

True, Meta Knight also counts, now that you mention Kirby!

[@crimsonchaos7224]

@@gregorlangemeier4116 Are you talking about Meta Knight creating Galacta Knight as a villain, or Kirby creating Meta Knight as a villain? Because the former makes much more sense to me than the latter.

[@15stargamer98]

Technically, neither Magolor nor Marx involve Kirby "creating" the villain. They're already there and already evil. The only thing Kirby ends up doing is powering them up. So it's less that Kirby made the villains and more that they got powered up because of Kirby. And as a counterpoint to Kirby instantly being trustworthy, there's the fact that he's literally a child and the fact that instantly trusting someone has ended up in saving the universe in the past at the times in the timeline when both games take place, that being Kirby 64. As for Meta Knight releasing Galacta Knight, that is kinda all he does, and he promptly defeats the Knight. But the events happen in a questionable canon side game. The clearest argument for Galacta Knight being canon would revolve around Morpho Knight... If you want a Kirby villain that was created by someone, you could probably draw from either Star Dream or Sectonia. Or if you want a Kirby villain being made by Kirby, then the only real option is Revenge of the King Dedede.

[@crimsonchaos7224]

@@15stargamer98 I get what you're saying, but a few things; 1. While Marx and Magalor were evil, they only really became a threat after Kirby helped them. I'd say this still counts given entries like Leon Belmont and Nick Ramos, where they had little to no impact on their villain's morality. 2. I agree with how Kirby is intentionally very trustworthy, he's basically positivity personified, and that is FAR from inherently a bad thing. It's just that in this specific circumstance is ended up being a bad idea. It's like Chell giving Wheatley full control over the facility; while he is a bit of an idiot, Chell and GLaDOS hate each other, and in the moment it seemed wiser for Chell to give her only ally full control instead of an uncaring sadist. 3. While he does win near immediately, in-universe it was INCREDIBLY reckless for Meta Knight to release Galacta Knight simply to fight him, since if he had lost he would effectively be unleashing Galacta onto the world, who both is insanely powerful and has been shown to have destructive tendencies (though all of this might not have happened given the shaky canon thing).

[@Quintega]

another twist of the hero creating their own villian. Persona the masked from PSO2 was created by you failing to save your girlfriend and being forced to kill her thus becoming persona the masked or episode 6 which reveals YOU are the reason the profound darkness exists because you created photons by being the keeper of the universe

[@azuredragoon2054]

First one is pretty accurate. Your character becomes the Dark Falz Persona out of being unable to save Matoi. Then shenanigans with time travel solves it. That's very wrong about Episode 6 though. The Profound Darkness exists because of Photoners trying to contain all negative photons in Shiva. Then Shiva, knowing her fate to lose to you, sends all of them into you which forces you to send yourself to the beginning of time.

[@Quintega]

@@azuredragoon2054 the photoners create it trying to replicate xion, who is an archive to the akashic records aka YOU. then luther creates harriet photoners rip out her soul making shiva to contain the profound. xion and by extension the profound would not exist without the akashic records. it is a big stretch but its still technically applicable

[@azuredragoon2054]

@@Quintega Where was it ever said that the player was the Akashic Records? That was never said at any point that I can remember.

[@0u70fSync]

Damn you Mike, activated my Echo speaker

[@butter0989]

In the second Splatoon game, there is a side mode where you take a job working for Mr. Grizz, retrieving golden eggs for him. Seems a little suspicious, but not too bad. However, in the third game, Mr. Grizz takes those golden eggs and uses them to try to fuzz the entire planet. Yeesh.

[@thealientree3821]

Megamind would be a paradox example. If it is not for him accidentally creating a villain, he probably would've still been a villain. Him creating Titan on accident and taking accountability to save Metro City is his turning point of being the hero. Or at least, a "super villain".

[@katiedoucet4748]

Underrated movie

[@dalgona4819]

"The only thing worse than a genius with a complete power is a total idiot with complete power" So true

[@__Mal_]

"How Aragorn felt when Strider came into town". 😆😆 Andy is always the funniest.

[@stephenmccormack9971]

I'm just saying the folks over at Disney would not be pleased if they knew what "Mickey" was slang for in Ireland. I'm not going to say what it is, but we all got a huge giggle out of "Epic Mickey" when it came out.

[@Jarbead]

Way to go Mike I’m listening to this at 7am before work and you made my Alexa want to play classical music as loud as she can…

[@cathalosullivan4132]

Mickey is a nickname, and nicknames are for friends. Michael Mouse is no friend of mine.

[@WiiMasterZephermkx]

I'm surprised Singularly is not here. Thanks to some time-bending nonsense, you actually save the main bad from a burning facility.

[@emeraldqueen1994]

The “Epic Micky” one is LITERALLY the plot of “The Sorcerer’s Appearance” segment in Fantasia….

[@EndellionQT]

The legendary Marauder Shields who failed to save Shepard from the ending.

[@thurkelofwarwick926]

Jane's comment about her second whip had me laughing out loud, on my own doing the washing up.

[@andybrown4284]

If gordon freeman hadn't messed up that experiment in the first place we'd never have been left hanging in the hopes for HL3

[@erubianwarlord8208]

gordon didnt mess it up though he did exactly as instructed it was the administrator that set him up with the sample that sabotaged everything as he was in league with the Combine and or G Man

[@dustinpurvis-m3x]

For the commenters edition, prototype 2 and James Heller would count. Alex Mercer was the protagonist of Prototype but far from the hero, however he was the one that infected Heller firsthand and let him live for his plans, that didn’t end well

[@globox1998]

André doesn't turn into a giant monster. Reflux does

[@serPomiz]

they read the wrong synopsis for this one

[@diggity1039]

Kenny from Dead Rising 3 reminds me of Algie from Rockstar's Bully, and a little bit of Jimmy DeSanta.

[@justforkicks5112]

I was just thinking about Epic Mickey the other day.

[@Midnight_Warrior]

Seems like in each game where Mickey is a hero/central character he manages to fuck up somehow By this I mean, he has caused so many problems is Kingdom Hearts the biggest one that caused a huge butterfly effect was when he left Aqua in the realm of darkness (which is basically the Disney equivalent of hell) after he found her in 0.8 a fragmentary passage which happens right before Kingdom Hearts 1. Aqua had been in there for like 10 years at that point and after he left she lost her keyblade and was defenseless and he left her like that for another 3 or so years

[@NeonKnightOA]

One spanning more than one game: Handsome Jack from Borderlands 2. The evil CEO of Hyperion Corp that torments the Crimson Raiders, the inhabitants of Sanctuary and all of Pandora. Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel! shows his gradual road towards being this horrible person with failed betrayal after failed betrayal. Some of the people involved in this road? Half of the Vault Hunters of the first game, and Mad Moxxi, the owner of the Underdome. And Borderlands 3 has a side mission called "Childhood's End" that details how he turned his daughter into a computer. EDIT: And The Pre-Sequel! itself has a pair of minor examples in the Rats enemies from 2 (borne from the Space Hurps that game's Vault Hunters catch at some point in TPS) and the Threshers, which you send to Pandora in a sidequest in TPS and result in Ol' Slappy and Terramorphous the Invincible from 2.

[@MatthewStimpson]

Pretty sure Ol' Pukey's a Skag, not a Thresher.

[@AmeenaWordweaver]

@@MatthewStimpson Yeah, that's right - I think he's the one that Claptrap sends you to find because he's detected another CL4P-TP unit. The Thresher is the one that goes on to take Hammerlock's arm. Ol' Slappy, I think that one's called? Hammy sends you after him as a sidequest and he's found by that Hyperion outpost/facility in the Highlands.

[@NeonKnightOA]

@@AmeenaWordweaver Yeah, that one, my mistake. EDIT: Fixed.