7 Mistakes YOU likely make when deck building | MTG Commander

[@Garrett316]

Knowing what to cut to make room for lands/mana rocks is the hardest part. Winning a freaking game is easier than knowing what to cut.

[@robertshashy5964]

It sounds like you are building your decks by adding in lands and mana rocks last. Try accounting for those cards first. Set aside the 37 or so slots for lands, and one or two spots for your commander (or partners), then start adding cards to the remaining 60 ish available slots. Add the mana rocks and ramp spells first. Then add in interactive spells (I actually play about 13-15 total in my decks, but that is a matter of preference), and then add in card draw (don't count tutors as card draw). All in all you should have anywhere from 25-30ish slots left in your deck. From there add in the cards you find fun, are on theme, or win you the game. I typically devote at least 7 slots to "win the game," cards. I play a lot of w/b decks with non-creatures, so I try to put Elspeth, Sun's Champion and shark typhoon in those decks, because they can take over the game and win. I'm also okay with a combo or two if it's on theme, and if I'm using it to win the game because it's gone on for a long time. Regardless, just account for how you are going to end the game. Also remember that there are plenty of cards that can serve in multiple roles, and therefore allow you to play more of the cards that you want to play. For example, unstable obelisk is both a mana rock and targeted removal. I hope these suggestions were helpful, and have a nice day.

[@1Deagl8]

A trick I use is to rebuild/write down the deck from memory. The cards that immediately come to mind first are my auto includes, anything forgettable is likely not crucial to the strategy and can be cut.

[@ceulgai2817]

1/2 commanders 37 lands 10 ramp 10 card advantage 3 wipes 7 single-target removal 33/32 fun cards

[@ironwolf940]

32 lands everytime

[@claytonwilde5750]

@@ceulgai2817the real trick is finding the draw/wipes/removal and sometimes even ramp that is also the fun cards, it’s no where near cedh but my best and also favorite deck is an orzhov vampires list where all the ramp is on theme, all the cars draw is on vampires or works well with vampires etc., it doesn’t even run any two mana rocks cause I’ve got a 2 mana commander, instead I’ve got things like legions landing, ramp that also makes vampire tokens

[@flashlightantics7618]

My free, unsolicited advice: Build to your play group. Some groups thrive on out-doing each other and trying to be the most meta, hardcore player out there. Other groups just want to play Magic and tend to avoid big, splashy combos or going infinite in favor of just having a friendly game. Neither of these groups are playing the game "wrong", they're just playing it how they enjoy it. If your group doesn't match your values of fun (i.e. you want to play Tergrid but your group wants to play chair tribal) then you need to find a new play group. Also, it's okay to have multiple play groups, but remember to use decks that match the group. Commander is a social format; be social!

[@attackoncardboard]

One of the best pieces of advice in this comment section!!

[@calenhoover1124]

A lot of groups evolve over time too. My pod of about eight players originally started an arms war against eachother, but after a couple months realized that it was sapping the fun out of games and we came together to discuss power levels and different play styles. Now we do a little bit of both 'powereful' decks and just funny meme decks and it makes for more diversity in deckbuilding and gameplay. Encouraging your pod to try new strategies while assuring them they will still be able to play their powered decks can be rewarding too!!

[@EvGamerBETA]

"Find new playgroup" is unrealistic advice in most places I imagine. Unless you play online

[@mugthemagpie3001]

This. My from the scratch decks are not for even FNM events because my actual play group does Sheldon Mulligan and not the official London Mulligan. If I do FNM or Commander Party events, I use one or my three precons (not that on Commander Party can only utilize only precons anyway).

[@novapheonix2211]

I still remember my first ever commander deck. It was a yarok the desecrated commander deck that I built entirely out of a box of M20. And I had a total of 12 lands.

[@attackoncardboard]

With that land count, "You're gonna have a bad time" 😂

[@SaintAbsol]

This might be just a personal thing, but something I think most players underestimate the value of in their decks is basic lands. Like, yes, you should have a few non-basics on hand for either their added effects or being able to tap for multiple colors, but they usually come with a downside: Entering tapped, costing you life, bouncing other lands, sacrificing other lands, and those are just off the top of my head. They are absolutely worth it, but a basic land will do the same job as them about 60% of the time without any stipulations. Not to mention, a lot of ramp spells only target basic lands; if you’re running them in a deck with a low amount of basics, they can quickly become dead draws because you’ll not have any targets and all you’ve done is pay mana to shuffle your deck.

[@nethandelwampa116]

Sagas are my favorite card in the game. Seeing the Tom bombadill decklists brought me into commander.

[@parkerbrandner9428]

One more big thing. Remember to make your deck fun for YOU. If you play a deck and are winning but not having fun it feels just as bad as losing. If your playing a deck and your losing but your enjoying what it’s bringing to the field then that can feel better than winning. Make sure you like what your doing otherwise commander feels like a massive slog. A side note. Don’t care what others think about your play style. I build control decks mostly so people generally despise playing me, but at the end of the day it’s the style I like best so I won’t stop playing it. Me having fun doesn’t have to include everyone having fun if I don’t want it to and that’s the mentality I believe most players should have

[@mrgarneau4895]

I would recommend checking Gatherer for Errata and legality of the card. For the example of Gatherer, all infect creatures have been errata'd into having the Phyrexian creature type. This allows Cavern of Souls and other tribal matters cards to be useful. There are also rule changes and interactions that you might not be aware of, this could make a card better or worse depending on the ruling. The ban list for Commander is small, but there are some cards on there that you wouldn't think. It's always worthwhile to check just to make sure, especially if you are a new player.

[@attackoncardboard]

Some excellent advice here!

[@TheLuckySpades]

Another common errata for anyone who stumbles here: older cards that deal damage to a "creature or player" is often errata'd to "any target" after planeswalkers were introduced

[@malakimphoros2164]

Scryfall is easier to search

[@KomradeKrisis1701]

Lmaooo, I only realised last month that I've been running Trade Secrets in one of my decks for like 5+ years 😅😅

[@aclevermtgpunthatsactually5010]

Of course this goes from player to player, but the last mistake is, I think, one of the most important to enjoy the hobby. So much, that when my playgroup decidded to jump to Oathbreaker, we made our first decks just with cards we had laying around (powerful or not), and it was SO much fun. Great video!

[@ylygylygynda]

While deckbuilding, use archidect or any other similar site to see your actual mana curve and average mana value. Common mistakes regarding mana curve: - Your colored mana sources are not proportionate to color pips in your mana costs => you're color screwed by design - Your average mana value is higher than average (2,50 - 3,50 is an average range), yet you use an average amount of mana sources => you always feel you need just one more mana to cast that precious spell - Your average mana value is lower than average, yet you use an average amount of mana sources => you have lots of unused mana on the table and\or you often end up with an empty hand - Your deck is 4 or 5 colours, yet you use little color stabilisation, like dual lands and signets. Just don't. It's not gonna work on basic lands. - Many colors on one card = harder to cast it and even harder to cast a second spell after it. Choose wisely. - If your 3 color deck is like 40% this color - 40% that color - 20% the other color, make the mana sources closer to 33%-33%-33%. Especially if most of your lands are basics. You won't regret it, believe me. - Pseudo fetch lands (Panoramas, the New Capenna cycle) that bring a tapped land are to be seen as ramp spells, not as regular lands. If you use a lot of those in regular land slots, they will slow your game down. - Pain lands are good. Shock lands are good. Talismans are good. Paying life for mana or card draw can win games.

[@joaov2374]

Also, i wanna add that if your deck have a low curve and a lot of draw, maybe you can allow yourself to cut some lands. On my chun li spellslinger i had a lot of draw and a lot of mana. I ended up flooding a lot of times

[@ylygylygynda]

@@joaov2374 good point! I have a Sythis deck that runs on 32 basic lands and it draws me cards like crazy, so overall it works

[@gizzad]

Dude this is amazing advice!!!

[@ylygylygynda]

@@gizzad happy to help!

[@ninjanoodle2674]

This is a great starting list for any new Commander player as it covers some of the most basic mistakes a lot of players (new and experienced) make during deck construction, especially the part on not having enough mana and not including enough interaction/removal. I'd love to see a follow-up video on the next seven deckbuilding mistakes to avoid: 8) Watch your mana curve and make sure your deck isn't too top heavy 9) Only include pure synergy "do nothing" cards (such as Rings of Brighthearth, Thousand-Year Elixir, Doubling Season, etc.) if they combo with at least 14 cards in your deck plus your Commander 10) Know your playgroup and adjust power level and strategy accordingly 11) Understand whether you are an aggressive deck, a control deck, a synergy deck, or a combo deck and make card choices accordingly 12) Create the best mana base you can afford as having access to the correct colored mana is just as important as having enough 13) In 3+ colored decks, double check ANY colorless lands that you are running and make sure that they are worth it 14) Don't forget ways to deal with cards in the graveyard and opponent's problematic lands when deciding on what removal to run

[@attackoncardboard]

This was actually a really hard video for me to edit. I would love to make a part 2, so I might call in some back up to assist 🤣 Thanks for watching and commenting 😁

[@ninjanoodle2674]

@@attackoncardboard Given the number of different ideas that need to be incorporated and problems that need to be solved for building decks in Commander, you can conceivably turn this into a whole series.

[@AidyJames]

Seeing Mishra as your example of an artifacts commander gave me the warm and fuzzies. He's my favourite commander by a huge margin.

[@davidgeiger6447]

That was a good list of advice. Even for a player who is not new to the game this video was a good reminder of the basics. Especially the last advice was a wake up call for me. I always brew over my unfinished decks instead of putting together what i got and figure out how to perfect it through playing it. Or of I even do like the mechanics in it 😅 Thanks for your content. Looking forward to your next video.

[@attackoncardboard]

Appreciate the kind words 🙂 Glad to be of help. And that last one is so true. I have about 5 decks on my desk right now that I could probably finish in about 10 mins 🤣

[@hexproof44]

My commander has always been the same and only one for over 12 years since I built it... Geist of Saint Traft! Yes, outdated, not broken, no meta, etc... but Saint Traft means a lot to me and truly enjoy playing it! Great building tips btw,I actually ignored some of them so I'll review my deck structure and make sure is as optimal as possible!

[@TheTransforcer]

That last point hits home. Somewhere along the way I picked up an Odrich lunar Marshall. That transformed into an Akroma vision Ix, which I found bland. Then I learned about partner and discovered Sakashima thousand faces, and now I have a U/W commander token clone copy deck, where with enough right pieces, Akroma swings for 20+.

[@wheeld]

Super cool video! You made me add two lands and a Cyclonic Rift to my Jon Irenicus deck but now I don't know which 3 cards to cut... mhmmm. Anyways, that should be an upcoming video: knowing which cards to cut

[@attackoncardboard]

After choosing your Commander, that's probably the next toughest choice you have to make 😂

[@thomasbasten2296]

Very well done video! Not only the information in it also the way you presented it. Thank you very much :)

[@attackoncardboard]

Thank you for watching and commenting. I really struggled in editing this video, so I'm glad you enjoyed it 🙂

[@kennethreed8485]

I've also been playing about 15 years, and picking a Commander to build a deck around never gets easier. There's so many options and so many directions you can go.

[@attackoncardboard]

I would also feel gutted if someone in my play group found an obscure Commander because then that meant I couldn't build it or play with it 🤣 Now I'm constantly looking through old legends to see if I can find a hidden gem

[@JustfullmetalEdge-rs7nl]

Keep in mind ways to get lands and draw cards sorta replace lands and mana rocks can replace some lands in the right deck it depends on the deck

[@darkdjinniumbrage7798]

I play with someone who uses only 32-34 lands in any deck, and he utilizes a lot of card draw and usually does well in games. Is 3-5 more lands really such a necessity when I could run 3-5 other playmakers in my deck?

[@Suhrvivor]

Yes it is. Watch your buddy that beats the odds closely and you'll see he mulligans a lot and misses his land drops more often than someone with a proper mana base.

[@hammerhyena4207]

Good list. I try to have at least two win conditions. It's nice to have a back up plan.

[@hanschristopherson8056]

Pretty much the 3 big sins of commander decks is not enough lands card draw or ramp, you need these otherwise your deck doesn’t function

[@PhoenicopterusR]

You can never have too much card draw! I mean, if you do then just play blue and slot in a Lab Man.

[@torbk]

It might sound a bit daft, but I always think 50/50, 50 creatures and spells to play and 50 lands, artifacts and spells to make the deck work. It basically ends up being 36-38 lands and about another 10-12 artifacts and spells to make mana or fetch lands, or at least tutor things. My decks usually starts out with a solid idea, but they are always modified over time. It is not unusual for me to switch out 2-4 cards in my most played decks and keep upgrading them. That's the second thing; building a commander deck doesn't mean its static. I know some people who are loathe to ever change a single card. Decks should be allowed to evolve, sometimes even for more fun rather than more winning, though winning is fun! It depends on whether one plays with friends for fun or with groups simply to win I guess ^^ I mean, I've run "Gluntch, the Bestower" as my commander, just to make a fun +1/+1 counter deck that lets me get treasure tokens or draw a card if I need that instead. With three opponents you can always alternate which opponents gets the other two you don't use so none of them benefit too much ^^. And having a commander that gives away two +1/+1 counters each turn for 3 mana? He is awesome. And he can fix you mana and card draw as mentioned. Gluntch is an underrated commander. To me he is the very essence of a fun commander that can be quite good, and he enables you to aid players lagging behind, and making sure everybody has a fun game! Also, it helps you indirectly thwart whomever has the most dangerous table. He is the true friendly commander in commander :) A fun card to run with Gluntch that is also quite cheap is "Hamza, Guardian of Arashin". You get him out at reduced mana cost, and the more creatures with +1/+1 counters you have the cheaper the rest of your creatures become. Add "Felidar Retreat" for example for even more +1/+1 counter fun a few others and soon enough you got a board full of buffed up creatures. Add a "Thunderfoot Baloth" and perhaps a "Champion of Lambholdt" and so on? Need I go on? One can easily make a fun deck that doesn't need to be super OP and still able to win games and make it enjoyable for everyone.

[@cybers0k]

I misheard a video on the internet who said "whip out your deck" (5:45) and that's how I got here, your honor...

[@attackoncardboard]

🤣

[@Sinistra359]

Ive been slotting in more board wipes than targeted removal. These days theres just too many threats that a targeted removal just feels bad when theres 5 other things to worry about lol. And if i lose on the stack then so be it. Shuffle up and play another 😅

[@EpicHeroSandwich]

Man, cEDH has really turned me into a degen. When I saw the thumbnail with the 37 crossed out for 25 lands my first reaction was "that's a good start."

[@attackoncardboard]

🤣 I wouldn't dare throw beginners into the cEDH pit to start. But I know beginners love cutting lands and the thumbnail was inspired by someone in the comments say they run 25 lands without issue 🤣

[@jettblade]

I do agree about the lands and that is usually a problem for new players. To be honest the amount of land can vary but should never go below 35, unless you have a very specific style of deck but that comes with experience. A few of my early decks didn't have enough lands, I had one deck only have 32 land and I couldn't do anything with it. I ended up rebalancing it and its been working ever since.

[@Trogdorbad]

Neera is a good example of a deck that doesn't necessarily need the full 36ish landbase - once she's out you're casting everything for free anyways, so use that space for more things to cast for free.

[@billrussell6416]

Ezuri, Marwyn and Yisan are great examples of minimum land required. With Ezuri I'll be land flooded with 18 lands in the deck. I advice people never go above 30 lands it's too much, but aim for 35 mana sources.

[@DudeMcAwesome]

Noticed my new esper Saruman deck had a lot of 2B and 3B cost cards and actually increased my land count to 40 by adding a few swamps so I could hit my curve.

[@mered5562]

I'm learning to make my own deck for Magnus the Red, my favorite Commander (I can't use an internet list bc my group and I think he's too strong and we can't enjoy a game when I play with him), and this video is fantastic! Thank you for all the advices ❤

[@chrisgebben2043]

im about to fix #5 in my new "Tazri, Stalwart survivor" deck which is activated ability tribal im adding a couple of creatures with the untap as part of the cost from lorwyn because with tazri and a training grounds effect you can infinite activate those creatures and they got lots of options anyway all #7 tips are good i will throw in a bonus eighth and that's when playing your deck and you don't know what to cut ask your self did you feel satisfied of what you drew in the situation and also is it helping you in the game. if you say "No" to many times for either or both questions that card should be a cut.

[@maidenless_tarnished]

Mishra, Imminent One is super busted. He's one of my favorite newest decks

[@kyvroarron13]

Watched this for shits to potentially share with newbies ive been playing with. Surprisingly wise, well put together and stream lined. 45 mana sources had me like 'okay this guy knows' Thanks for a video I completely agree with.

[@attackoncardboard]

Really appreciate the kind feedback. This channel is made with beginners/intermediates in mind. Magic can be a complicated game but it doesn't have to be 😊

[@mr.chopsticks3322]

Genuinely a great video. I tend to run less mana since my mana curves tend to end at 3 :)

[@attackoncardboard]

I can totally understand people playing less lands when their average CMC is much smaller. 37 is a good starting point for beginners and then go from there 🙂

[@mr.chopsticks3322]

@@attackoncardboard I couldn't agree more!

[@XmortoxX1990]

4:35 funny that you picked chatmander for this expample when it considered the worst of the Kanto starters. Great video anyways. Returned to the game aftr a while and I'm just playing limited and Commander. P.S: Bought both the Gonti Snr Mothman decks, and I'll upgrade these before building other commander decks

[@attackoncardboard]

I like a challenge 😉

[@freakyfredderson]

Experiment Kraj is SO FUN. Stacking tons of activated abilities on one creature leads to lots of janky combos. Shattergang Brothers is also really good if you want a spikey sacrifice/control build

[@joshuaharris1130]

love breya eteruim shaper. so much fun for artifacts!

[@kazumaster293]

How do you play her? I wanna buil her too but i dont know how. Every decklist i put together doesnt feel right or complete

[@ScorpioneOrzion]

on point 6, just hit that shuffle button on edh rec should give you some ideas

[@The5DarkDradon]

love the advise. I am taring to make a nashi moon legacy a rat ninja deck , but the color combination is confusing me how to build my deck

[@attackoncardboard]

I think if you're wanting to play Rat Tribal, Nashi isn't the right commander. Mono black rats is where the most support is. Or otherse Golgari Rats so you can spash the green Changelings.

[@enragedchild865]

I have been playing mtg sence return to ravnica standard, and i just descovered how fun and awsome Ruric thar is to play. I highly recomend him for new players!

[@grantmurdock7385]

Hey blue players on a budget: you don't need Cyclonic Rift. Aether Gale and Consuming Tide are both fun and cheap.

[@yuukihanato9691]

An addon to the mana rule is that some decks thrive better with a lower mana count. My Karn deck is a good example since it's almost purely artifact that means there's plenty of cards that add mana as a secondary effect and it can live off of 24 mana and still be exceptionally consistent

[@SamiGodHater]

The land debate is always interesting. I've been playing for 16 years and I'm not sure I've ever built a deck with more than 34 lands. With good mana rocks and card draw I try to get it closer to 30. I'd be curious to hear how many lands everyone starts with when building a deck.

[@ISuneater]

I go for 33 as a base, considering 7 mana rocks on average. Then I cut/add lands based on deck type and curve. For example Alesha has 31 as it is packed with ways to cheat mana and cheap combos, Galazeth similarily 32, Thalia & Gitrog has 40 and relies on mana dorks, extra land drops and land abilities. Raffine is the biggest exception with 38 and zero rocks, but her filtering makes it go smoothly.

[@SamiGodHater]

@Ivo Saniter seems like a good process. You're definitely right, land count can depend on what the deck is trying to do.

[@attackoncardboard]

I've really been enjoying reading the comment section, there's so much discourse which is great. One thing I cut from the video was I believe people think they can get away with fewer lands because of the casual nature of Commander which allows "infinite" mulligans. I think if the players who sit around 30 lands actually mulligans properly and consistently, they would change their tune.

[@cdawggaming4426]

Dont need much removal spells in my wall deck lol. Pretty good video for beginners

[@attackoncardboard]

I love Pillow Fort decks!

[@mrpinguimninja]

I've been struggling a bit with a few builds lately. Most of them I'm just unispired to brew, but I'm having a hard time finding cheap repeatable card draw for my Rafiq build. The thing is, it's not a voltron deck, I'm focusing on combat damage and 'that many damage' triggers in order to take advantage of Rafiq's ability in a different way, so aura's mostly don't fit the theme.

[@attackoncardboard]

That's one of the main reasons I've been drawn to making rules videos. I have lots of half built commander decks, but nothing that has inspired me to finish it 100%. The next closest deck I had is Jodah the Unifier but it's not really that exciting to make a video about 😅

[@mrpinguimninja]

@@attackoncardboard i feel you, i didn't like the new jodah right back when he was revealed 'cause I felt he didn't had a lot of space for creative builds the older one is more open ended. One of the favorite decks i've ever built is a mannichi mono red control, i wanted to build it in paper, but the pieces are above my budget lmao

[@chrisgebben2043]

oh just to note on 3# i didn't hear how much protection interaction you should have like "Teferi's protection", "Heroic intervention" and other spot protection spells (i guess counterspells also no specific count)

[@attackoncardboard]

Perhaps I misspoke during that part. It should be 8-10 interaction cards. A mix of removal, protection and counter spells 🙂

[@chrisgebben2043]

@@attackoncardboard thanks for the answer anyway two more questions occured to me 1A: would "recursion/Regrowth" be in the protection category 1B: is what i mentioned its own catergory for the fun stuff 2. Where would "Tutors" go on the list can they just be any catergory since they are like Wild cards in Uno

[@attackoncardboard]

Tutors and recursion, I put into the "Utility" slot. Depending on what type of Commander deck you're playing it could range from a handful to 10 or more. Combo decks tend to run more as they only need a combo of 2 cards to win a game.

[@chrisgebben2043]

@@attackoncardboard Perfect thats everything i needed

[@ThickpropheT]

I've been playing for probably around the same amount of time, but I'm as bad as ever at building decks, so thanks in advance for the tips lol

[@MageSkeleton]

1. Thirty Seven lands may seem mathematically functional, however, in my experience that's WAY too many unless your doing a landfall deck in which case you could run a few more. The general rule of thumb is the more "mana ramp/rocks" you run the less lands you can safely include. The lower the CMC of the ramp/rocks dictate how safe you are to lower the number of lands. Most competitive decks run about 30 lands, but we're also running the expensive mana rocks like Jeweled Lotus, Mana Vault, Mana Crypt, Lotus Petal, Chrome Mox, Mox Opal and such. i would actually recommend everyone get a Sol Talisman, Mox Tantilite, and a Lotus Bloom. They're cheap and when they do hit play you get to enjoy "fast ish ramp" and there are a few cards that can put them straight from the library to the battlefield. Of course if your running 3 CMC mana rocks/ramp then your looking at running about 40 lands as recommended in video. Point number 2 should had been synonymous with Point number 1. 3. Removal spells are important, really depending on what your commander is and what your doing dictates what type of removal your doing and how much of it. if your commander is Horobi, Death's Wail then any spell that targets a creature is a removal spell. if your commander is like Nevinyrral, Urborg Tyrant, then your commander is your removal spell. Depending on what colors you have available to you you may have to get creative with what removal spells you run, for example; if your doing mono black your only option to target remove a enchantment is Feed the Swarm. There are a few other cards like Pharika's Libation. The more casual you play or if your playing aristocrats theme the more board wipes you should run. The more competitive you play the more targeted removal is important. 4. Card Advantage can be many different things. This can be "drawing cards" this can be "exile the top X cards of your library, you may play them until the end of your next turn" it may be milling yourself but card advantage can also be making use of a handful of cards to flood the board with tokens or pulling from your library like Winota, Joiner of Forces does. 5. Make sure if your win condition isn't "turning sideways" then you have a way to win that doesn't require you "turning sideways." This is why Thassa's Oracle ends up being most decks only ability to win. 6. There are many commander options, some no matter what you do for it's build it will have a "low ceiling" if you were interested in going further with the commander. But remember, if it's fun for you to play then your doing it right. i do want to point out there are commanders where if the opponent(s) see it in your command zone will target you out of the game as the commander is known for either doing fast wins, or making the gaming experience horrible. For example, if your commander is K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth your opponents will attack you every chance they get regardless how you have the deck built. 7. Refining your deck is part of the fun of MTG. Maybe a card just never gets cast when it seems like a good opportunity to cast it. Maybe a new card comes out and enables a fun new way to experience your deck. "Perfection" is completely dependent on your definition of it. Maybe you can only work with what you have, maybe you slowly acquire all the expensive chase cards like Gemstone Caverns. Maybe, your having a good time with exactly how your deck is. As said before, if your having fun your doing it right.

[@codelicious6590]

Ive been building Hapatra since Amonkhet Standard!!

[@MonkeyPantsFace]

37 lands is insane! I never have any more than 34 lands and 15+ mana rock/ramp. Ramp>lands

[@Qaos]

I still have my first Commander deck, though obviously modified since its original creation. Luckily, it having a 7 mana commander meant I put roughly enough lands in instinctually. I don't play it as much as I used to, since it's not really my preferred style, but it can still put in work when it needs to (when draw luck isn't thoroughly shafting me, anyway).

[@bmprosser]

Most of the “not enough”s can be paired with “too many” synergy cards. Slot in the synergy that matters and will get your towards your win, not just synergy for synergy’s sake.

[@thegrandone3435]

Excellent video. Just curious if anyone had any advice on building a Stax Megatron, Tyrant deck. I'm trying to make him Stax as well as front line but any help would be great. Already got ways to protect him and tax other players but it's my first time trying to build a stax deck.

[@attackoncardboard]

I feel like this is the example of wrong Commander for the type of deck you want to be playing. Outside of "Blood Moon" effects, Red doesnt really bring anything to the table. White generally brings in things to slow down opponents, makes things ETB tapped or reduces number of spells that can be cast. Artifacts are where you get most of your Stax effects and theyre generally quite cheap (mana cost) so generating extra mana from Megatron doesnt really offer any benefit there. I personally would be building Megatron as an "Extra Combat Step" deck as that can take advantage of both sides. And to make another point, the best Stax effects are artifacts, and you dont want to be sacrificing them to the Destructive Force side of Megatron. If you're wanting to build Stax, I would highly recommend Esper or Azorius as your best Stax colours.

[@tashannoc]

Best advice I have is don't. Don't play stax.😂

[@G.Snackwell]

gotta love that Theme Hospital music.

[@jeezy.breeze]

"Whoever has the most card advantage wins" -Sun Tzu (Real)

[@attackoncardboard]

Nobody lies on the internet right? 🤣

[@snickle1980]

Jam a man of fortune... and J must seek my fortune- Henry Averies

[@zackarieneifert7014]

me, actively cutting cards from my yuriko deck after 12 years of playing this game cause I thought that 28 lands would be functional

[@BisyBackson365]

I'm a little tired of seeing the "how many Lands debate without the discussion to the relationship between Pipps, Avg CMC, and ramp sources. 37 Lands is fine to start with but 37 + 10 ramp sources is great when your avg cmc is

[@attackoncardboard]

100% agree with you. This video was more geared towards beginners and intermediates, so I believed getting a solid foundation was important. I would have talked about CMC and Curve, but I dont think this was the right video to do so. I'll be making more beginner tutorials (deck building etc) in the future and I'll be doing one on mana :)

[@BisyBackson365]

@Attack on Cardboard I dig it. I am a beginner, only learning that edh exists about 6-7months ago. I have only played about 12 games. (3 cEDH - Temur Dargo). I know that I am likely abnormal. But I quickly found that about 1hr of YT about topics like interaction, Archetypes, deck building, and tempo did two things. Taught me the basics and left me in a void between needing more content on the finer details and complex generalities. I'm excited to see what u have planned. A few ideas geared toward truly understanding the game. This type of content is VERY hard to find. And it's the whole edh community, not just higher power stuff. Threat assessment. Pip choices vs optimized selection. Mulligans. Seat and pod composition (Archetype vs Archetype). Archetype strengths and weaknesses. Commander centric list strengths weaknesses. Tribal strengths and weaknesses. Stax vs rattlesnakes. Tempo play (at every deck strength level)

[@attackoncardboard]

I've actually got an extremely special video that's in the works that will be dropping next month that you're going to absolutely love. If I'm allowed to drop it earlier I definitely will :)

[@GellyGelbertson]

how would you recommend building decks that don't have a commander in mind? for example, i tried building a "blink saga" EDH deck, but there really aren't any commanders that fit that mold (best ends up being "aminatou, fateshifter" but i spend most games not playing the commander)

[@attackoncardboard]

There are definitely some deck themes where there isn't always a a suitable Commander in the colours you want to play. I used to run Ith, High Arcanist in my Pillow Fort/'Can't attack me' deck. Just because he fit the theme better than say Hanna, Ship's Navigator. And 9 times out of 10, I would never cast him, but the deck still did well without him. And if I did end up playing Hanna, she would just die because of the value she could generate and because of her 2 toughness. Commanders dont have to be a linchpin of the deck, you can just treat them as a bonus card you can cast when you've nothing else to do. If the overall theme and consistency of the deck is strong enough, you dont really need to worry about the Commander :)

[@eggsmcbenedict]

I’m in the same boat, built a mono-black deck that there just isn’t a good fit for. I wish they’d print a cool hag-type commander in the new Eldraine set.

[@anthonycatania5613]

You're a monster for keeping that hair on the background.

[@attackoncardboard]

😅

[@oniaisu8560]

Does cost reduction count as a mana source? Medallion/Urza's incubator types.

[@Suhrvivor]

It put those in the mana rocks slots.

[@refundreplay]

FORTY FIVE MANA SOURCES? my god, I'll never miss a land drop as I watch my friends play Commander while I die slowly inside.

[@artistpoet5253]

any DEEP IQ style of solo gaming tools to test your commander deck or to just play against when you no longer enjoy your L"F"GS and on-line play is just 'not your thing'?

[@snickle1980]

I'm out of date, but back in the day, i fiddled with Xmage. I've seen plenty of recommendations for other programs here though. keep scrolling.

[@magusofthebargain]

I see many cEDH decks that don't run Commander's Sphere because it's a mana rock that costs 3 mana. But they are all running Imperial Seal. The interaction between Commander's Sphere and Imperial Seal is so good that I would compare it to Arcane Signet plus Demonic Tutor. Cast Arcane Signet on turn 2, untap, play your 3rd land, and cast Demonic Tutor. And you have 2 mana left over to cast the spell you tutored up. Compare this to playing Commander's Sphere on turn 3, tapping it for B, casting Imperial Seal, sacrificing Commander's Sphere, leaving you 0 mana to play what you tutored up. This would seem to leave you 2 mana behind, however, remember the 2 mana you spent casting the Arcane Signet? Commander's Sphere is an excellent inclusion in a deck with many 1-cost tutors that all tutor cards to the top of your library.

[@deathkitty23]

37 is way too high, I top out at 32, but depending on average cmc and types of rocks it can go lower, I have a few lists that run 28 lands

[@bigbadwolf6256]

I go by 36 lands what works good, 37 might be just as good but more secure, the main topic is to have enough double lands and multi color lands for nothing is so frustrating you have enough lands but not the right color.

[@roetemeteor]

I've got concerns with my Elfball. Sure, the land is on the slim side and I've not many mana rocks, but also, like, a good portion of my creatures already MAKE mana. I've gone from having 2 forests and 2 mana, to having 2 forests and 18 mana potential. It eventually ends up with unlimited mana. I'm unsure how creatures count for that. Do I just treat them *as* rocks?

[@attackoncardboard]

Tough to say without seeing the list. Mana dorks can be similar to mana rocks, but they're much easier to remove. I'd recommend putting your deck list into Moxfield and seeing what your average mana cost is and the % chance of you being able to cast spells on the first few turns of the game.

[@maggiiopgott8975]

Gishad Dinosaurs is my favorite commander

[@awfulwaffle4281]

Not enough lands or mana rocks for me I go like 40/ ten but some of the lands might be the zendikar lands that are also spells.

[@alexisstart1864]

Super informative video, thank you! 😊 Personally I'm a bulbasaur babe, but I won't fight about it. You have the type advantage 😝

[@attackoncardboard]

Thanks for taking the time to comment! I hope you enjoy the rest of the content! 😃

[@alexisstart1864]

@@attackoncardboard thanks for the reply! I have been enjoying perusing your back catalog and am looking forward to future uploads 😊 Have a outstanding day! ✨

[@angelalex7827]

Do cards how reduce mana cost (like the Medallions) count as mana sources ?

[@attackoncardboard]

In a sense, yes.

[@angelalex7827]

@@attackoncardboard Ok nice, thanks.

[@Vitox96]

what would the chance to draw lands if the count gets lowered to 35?

[@magusofthebargain]

if you want to hit your 3rd land drop on turn 3 without any ramp, the correct number to play is 42-43 land

[@Garl_Vinland]

I dunno man, I got a deck with tons of mana rocks, and I always draw into one when I’d of rather drawn a card that does something

[@snickle1980]

Same. I collect em. I think my current deck has at least 7. It's sometimes called "Ramp to nothing" but when you see all those rocks on the field, it's a beautiful thing.

[@dragonofthesky9999]

i feel like in the ramp section you missed another key part, u said it only once but cards like actual ramp also make for good rocks, things like three visits or natures lore where they are only 2 mana and search for a land to the battlefield.

[@darylmcnaughton748]

yeah i run 34-35 lands on average with ramp/rock spells and definately not enough draw (that varies based on the deck tbh)

[@onryu]

oops, I dont think I have a single deck with 37 lands, I usually start with 30-35, then cut down if have dorks/mana rocks- as my Lathril/Elf deck has just 20 lands lol

[@richardirving8144]

For those wondering, for more competitive/CEDH decks, 33-34 lands and 8-12 other mana producers is typically more accurate.

[@rinkyoma]

Build to your curve. I run a green bear deck that most cards are 2 cost and in green you get cheap things like utopia sprawl. This lets me run 33 lands and makes more room for ramp cards. overall it lowers my chance of mana flood and speeds up my game...You cant do this with things like ur-dragon tho.

[@danieldepass180]

Did you say wip out your "deck" and just start playing? Sorry just kidding, great vid. You referenced ramp without explaining the term like you did with mana rock though. When i started years ago I remember thinking why does everyone one say ramp so much, what is that!?

[@attackoncardboard]

😉 Good point. I may make a "MtG slang for beginners" guide in the future 😂

[@breloopharos1919]

I always like low costing or WUBRG decks because you kinda don't gotta think too much about cutting lands or not.

[@JohnSmith-vk9ds]

Mana Rock Addendum: To help narrow down your selection, I would note that by and large 3 CMC mana rocks (anything that costs 3 or more mana to cast), such as Darksteel Ingot, Commander's Sphere, or Coalition Relic, are considered too slow to be of any significant value to most decks in the modern competitive commander formant. Sol Ring and Arcane Signet are the baseline for mana rocks and, due to multiple printings, they are cheap enough that they should be considered auto-includes in pretty much every commander deck. At 2 CMC are the ten Talismans which are artifact versions of pain lands that tap for a colorless or tap for one of two colors at the cost of one life. There is one of these for each color pairing, and you should consider including each pair in your commander's color identity. In a 3-color commander deck, this brings you up to the baseline 5 rocks. Alternatively, or additionally depending on deck needs, the ten Guild Signets from the Ravnica sets are next, which come in color pairs and filter 1 colorless mana into the two colors in the specific pair. These are statistically less valuable than the Talismans as they are more limited in the mana that they can produce but you may wish to include them anyway depending on your deck needs. There are also two noteworthy 2 CMC colorless utility artifacts in Mind Stone, which you can crack to draw a card, and Thought Vessel which eliminates your maximum hand size. There are additionally zero drop rainbow artifacts that will benefit any deck including Lotus Petal, Mox Chrome, Mox Diamond, Mox Opal, and Jeweled Lotus, as well as zero drop colorless artifacts such as Mana Vault and Mana Crypt, but these are likely prohibitively expensive for a vast majority of players as they have had very limited print runs and typically cost hundreds of dollars each for a single copy. The higher CMC/higher mana-producing artifacts such as Thran Dynamo or Grim Monolith are generally not considered other than in specific decks in which they function as combo pieces.

[@joebaumgart1146]

I don't even use lands half the time. Mox Jet, Black Lotus, 4 Dark Rituals and Blightsteel Colossus on turn 1. Lands not required.

[@attackoncardboard]

Of course! It's so simple!

[@Trogdorbad]

Re: Picking Commander picking "good" commanders certainly isn't always the way to go; I have more fun with some of the weirder/"bad" choices. I have a Piru legends matter deck that's honestly pretty fun, and somehow the first game I ever won was with my Neera Chaos deck (no kitten loops). Bet you never thought you'd hear the sentence "I won thanks to Bubbling Beebles" did you? I also built a Dragonclaw theft deck that I think I've actually built pretty well as a Real deck - has the option to be Yasova or Surrak, with Colossification if surrak's the commander or Raised By Giants if yasova's there. I still need a copy of MOM Etali to replace OG since it has the potential to fully empty all libraries with Displacer Kitten, but the first time I played it I won with Insurrection which was fun.

[@davidcrawford9407]

I feel so awkward starting at 33-34 lands now 🤣🤣🤣 I still really dont have any issues though.

[@atraxavoiceofdescent6364]

37 lands is great for beginners, however I personally run 29/30 but I run low mana curve decks with lots of natures lore far seek and mana rocks so I’m comfortable with that number honestly the best tip people is to play test your deck see what land count works for you on turn 6 the worst thing to have is 4 lands and no spells just like how turn 3 it sucks to see that that 2 land hand keep preventing you from playing your 3 drops

[@TrecherousMonki]

Me playing Sigarda Voltron: "Interaction? What's that!?"

[@attackoncardboard]

Not even protection spells?

[@TrecherousMonki]

@@attackoncardboard From what? She's hexproof, can't be sacrificed, and is enchanted to be indestructible :)

[@attackoncardboard]

@@TrecherousMonki "Farewell" says 'hello', or rather, 'sayonara'

[@TrecherousMonki]

@@attackoncardboard Flickerform says hello :)

[@attackoncardboard]

Ah there's the protection spell 😁

[@tacobell2009]

Wow, 37 lands!? Do you play uber casual? Start with 40 lands, then you can cut a land for every two of the following that costs 2 or less in your deck: mana rock/mana dork/ramp spell/draw spell/cantrip. This is a general rule, but if you have a critical mass of cheap ramp and draw spells, you can play less lands and more actual spells that do things. Also play the channel lands because they're both lands and "spells"

[@vonLuck130]

New players just need to, as you stated, put a deck together and play. Once you have a number of games under your belt it's time to start talking about synergy, cuts, and your game plan. Also I find the online tools such as Archidekt or Moxfield really help you visualize what your 100 cards are doing - this makes building synergy and identifying shortfalls considerably easier.

[@attackoncardboard]

Moxfield also let's you run test hands and tells you your decks average CMC, which also helps with the land situation.

[@RollingCalf]

I build for aesthetics. If i like a commanders art, I'm picking it.

[@scatman1o154]

WHIP OUT MY WHAT?! 5:56

[@attackoncardboard]

You know what I said 😉

[@angelgaming287]

i play 32 lands but i also have mana crypts and lotus petals and mox ambers

[@ylygylygynda]

If over several games you think "i wish i had something different in my hand" about the same card, remove it from your deck. This means the card doesn't work for you personally, and it makes your games less joyful.

[@snickle1980]

Very true. I've had that happen a a couple times. _"I've put it in the deck...now I've drawn it...and now I'm disappointed."_ 😁 That card was supposed to do work, but it's leaning on a shovel and asking for a raise. 😐

[@NyentekMusic]

Nice video!

[@attackoncardboard]

Thanks 😊 I hope you enjoy the other ones too

[@matthewollar9842]

I only run above 35 Lands in a Landfall/Lands matter deck. I do run around 10 Mana Rocks though (depending on the deck). E.g. my Reading Rainbow deck (Omnath, Locus of Creation) runs 0 Mana Rocks but I do run Ramp spells. My Alimony deck (Magda, Brazen Outlaw…my wife’s name is Magda 🤷‍♂️) runs 3 Mana Rocks…the 3 best though 😉. Fetch Lands in 1 and 2 color decks help as well to shuffle. I hate being Flooded as well. Maybe I don’t have a good system but I get depressed when I start to build a deck when I realize I have to dig through 6 different 4,000 count boxes for Commons and Uncommons then 2 1,000 count boxes for Mythics and Rares. Building is a task though. I firmly believe there is such a thing as too many decks. Too many to maintain and update every set 🥺.

[@zuggy1231]

Play 'Ivy, Gleeful Spellthief' help me make her EDHrec top 50.

[@snickle1980]

is she Dimir?

[@zuggy1231]

@@snickle1980 Simic

[@Euphorb1um]

Put stuff that lets you win, and fill the rest with boardwipes.

[@snickle1980]

I only play two colors! You think Dimir is just _MADE of boardwipes?_ 😆

[@PhoenicopterusR]

​@@snickle1980 Black alone keeps up with the boardwipe champ that is White; add in the few staples that blue uses and you could almost play boardwipe tribal.

[@silverdawg8013]

Just whip it out and play with it.

[@Ghost-Toast819]

So once you get through all of your must haves in a deck you only need to pick about 15 cards and your commander (Sarcastic undertone) There are a lot of way to ensure you have lots of mana, cards and interaction. It’s true that cards of this type are more expensive but it’s ok to put some money in a deck you know you like so make sure to use moxfield, talk to friends and remake decks gradually. Don’t buy more than one copy of a card that’s pricey until you know you want it and that you will use it.

[@1859ddd]

He said whip out your DECK guys put those surprises away!!!

[@BadPainYatta]

The problem is I only have 32 lands and I draw too many lands because I have so much mana accelration because Jin Gitaxis Progress Tyrant has so much mana ramp because artifacts

[@yokiweyy4770]

then i must be cursed with never ending mana screw, no matter how many lands i put in my decks. i have a tatyova ramp deck with 45 lands. i often find myself struggling to draw the 4th or 5th land. or my grixis nicol bolas deck, with 37 lands and 7 mana rocks. same stuff. more often than not i can't go beyond the 4th land. my commander decks hate me

[@billrussell6416]

I never go above 30 lands, it's just too much. 35 mana sources is decent. But I build to a curve, my low cmc Ezuri is land flooded at 18 lands in deck. Stuff like Marwyn also use less than 20 to be efficient. But my WUBRG slivers use 28 lands and I still have too much.

[@attackoncardboard]

I honestly can't tell if this is a meme.