7 Wonders Duel: Agora Review - with Zee Garcia

[@madebyhman7996]

I would honestly love if Zee had his own Channel. Easily the best reviews on the dice tower network

[@michaellao7264]

Agree!

[@DiegoMendoza-lr8zq]

Tom's are actually great too and sometimes even hilarious. Look after Vasco Da Gama game review

[@HalloikbenJim]

You are great at reviewing reviews

[@GatsbyCioffi]

I'm gonna buy it just to see the center board in all its splendor, with the Pantheon above and the Senate below.

[@leobetosouza]

Zee, please. Make a new video focusing on how the two expansions play together! I know you said a little about it in the end, but we need more on this topic. Great review btw.

[@justicebolt5293]

Man i’m excited! Can’t wait to try 7 wonders duel+Pantheon+Agora and also add the fan made Leaders expansion on boardgamegeek.

[@oleksiyblinov4265]

Cubes: Terraforming Agora

[@PowerPandaMods]

This actually looks like the necessary expansion, with Pantheon being the one you add when you want some flare. I remember playing Pantheon for the first time and saying, "I like it, but I think I like the base game by itself just a little bit better". Even seeing the overview of this, I'm saying, "I need it yesterday." BTW, the cubes are likely a finished prototype thing, and don't reflect actual manufacturing.

[@fsugnome]

My wife and I love 7 wonders duel. She hated the Pantheon expansion. Thought the gods were too crazy and detracted and messed with the cadence of the original one too much. (She now couldn't out card count me, ie me not taking a turn and using a God) But with the subtle new changes she might enjoy. Interesting.

[@damienbarber]

Pantheon was horrible. I didn't like it, my wife didn't like it, and my friend who is generally into anything that adds to strategy didn't like it. Pantheon really just turns Duel into a very inferior game.

[@SolusBatty]

Interesting that you both didn't like it. Me and my friends absolitely love it exactly for the reasons you hate it :D

[@delgar89]

I love Pantheon exactly for the reasons you don't like it lol. Having less option or no option is worse than having a backup plan

[@richtungmeer]

Pantheon & Agora are just beyond amazing, I honestly feel sorry for you :)

[@SolusBatty]

Love the review, especially the final thoughts you give at the end. Usually I just watch gameplay reviews for rules, but your addition on how it all comes together and the quality of pieces/design is a great addition!

[@CrunchyCrustacean]

I passed on getting Pantheon precisely for the reasons Zee likes it; it disrupts the cadence of the game and made things too wild. THIS expansion sounds perfect.👌

[@Wh0isTh3D0ct0r]

Dang. And I was so thrilled at how well everything fit in the base game box with the 7 Wonders Duel organizer from The Broken Token.

[@imnottellingyoumyname3050]

I'm pretty new to board gaming and I'm trying to learn what I'd like. And I'm always really pleased when I see Zee reviewing the game I'm interested, great reviewer man. Keep it up.

[@brentross9233]

Once you started going over it, I knew my wife would hate me for introducing this expansion. Thanks for a great breakdown

[@MrOzGunner]

I have played this already on BoardGameArena and I love it! I can't wait to get a physical copy. 7 Wonders Duel is one of my favourite games.

[@JWentu]

thank you Zee, very fine, informative, complete and clear

[@hornblenda6]

When you activate a conspiracy card you don't discard that regular card from underneath (that previously used to prepare the conspiracy), it stays there till the end of the game (manual says that). It is important, because discarded cards (as well as those 3 cards of each era removed from the game at the beginning) are still available for play in some cases, while those underneath conspiracy cards are permanently blocked, unavailable for play anymore no matter what (unless some new expansion or promo wonder card comes out, that allows it). But for now, there is no option in none of the Base or Pantheon or Agora or released promo wonder cards to play it. This can be crucial feature sometimes ;)

[@blacko3539]

I'd like to hear Zee's thought on Unforgiven and how it compares to 7 wonders duel (+ expansion).

[@gregouellet3403]

Good overview. Thanks Zee!

[@fernandorzezinski7205]

Great review. One thing you did not cover for me is how good the expansions are combined? Regardless of it becoming a heavier game, is it good? Great? Fantastic? I don’t mind it being heavier. This is my favorite game.. But does heavier gives you an amazing and epic experience in return or you better just play them separately?

[@paulszki]

Whatch the very end of the video.

[@fernandorzezinski7205]

@@paulszki not really clear..

[@tomasxfranco]

"... be careful playing both together since then it's no longer a small game", Zee. He soesn't really recommend it one way or the other.

[@fernandorzezinski7205]

@@tomasxfranco I got that. But is it no longer a small game that is worth it if you have the time/don’t mind heavier games?

[@hornblenda6]

@@fernandorzezinski7205 Combine both, it is great together. Almost no interference. Leaving the pantheon out is not an option for me. Definitely worth adding to the mix in my opinion.

[@chrisarney8265]

Interesting. I like Pantheon a lot, not sure that I wanna add any more weight to the whole thing. Maybe seeing it played will change my mind, but I might lay off Agora specifically because I like Duel as a light-ish 2-player game that I don't have to spend 2 hours playing after all the teaching and decision-making is said and done. I have enough heavy games.

[@adamg4912]

My first impression was that this expansion looks interesting but combining it with Pantheon may too crazy. I may end up only playing Pantheon games or Agora games. We'll see...

[@tomasxfranco]

"... be careful playing both together since then it's no longer a small game", Zee. He soesn't really recommend it one way or the other.

[@benjespina]

This game is one Boardgame Arena if anyone wants to try it first before buying.

[@LoboDerPraesi84]

Sehr coole Bochum Ruhrpott Mütze die er da hat 👌🏻

[@Indubitably14]

Zee, the thing I'm the most curious about is how they combine together. You talked a little about this but do you recommend they mostly be played separately?

[@Leiderg]

This is what I was wondering the entire video, and was just barely mentioned at the end >

[@tomasxfranco]

"... be careful playing both together since then it's no longer a small game", Zee. He soesn't really recommend it one way or the other.

[@Indubitably14]

@@tomasxfranco @Roberto Galvez Bruno Cathala recently did an interview on the Repos Production KZbin channel. Agora was initially designed as pure expansion for Duel but he was surprised how well it combined with Pantheon. He admits it's a more complex game for experienced players that like stepping back and considering many different options. I'm paraphrasing but seems like it will be crazy but fun.

[@usualhumanxd353]

I thought about that too.. But now im sure i want to play with both expansions since my friend and I are kinda good at this game. And i even dare did some small fixes after 100ish games i played already(like temple of artemida 12 gold -> 9 gold, wonder which can destroy gray card -> cost one resource more now, progress token which gives you an ability to build any building that has a chain link on it for 1 gold -> now cost 2 gold and we think it's fair now.. i guess that's all changes. And Ishtar now gives usual symbol of third age which looks like a sun clock on sand or whatever it called xd (we had sooo many science victories with divine theatre & mausoleum.. kinda tired of those games when you can't stop that science victory combo at all and you see that moment in early age 2) Love this game so much. Still the best game for me alongside with chess)

[@nora19711]

Best agora tutorial I have seen!

[@ElGrandoCaymano]

But can the Agora expansion be combined with the Pantheon expansion...?

[@NicoHolic777]

Looks like they should combine nicely.

[@malkmusfan]

Love a good Zee review

[@ziomalZparafii]

Interesting that on every board games group I am, Agora is suggested as a "must have" and Pantheon as a "nice to have", so opposite to what's Zee said here. I have only base game but recently haven't played it at all so no plans on getting expansions for now.

[@fearanarchy]

I was going to buy this regardless. I am glad that the Overview reinforced its role in the game

[@minvictor]

PLEASE, what's the name of the music closing this episode? It's SO calm and relaxing...

[@JaimeLucea]

What a brilliant review!

[@RoscoeS]

Would like to see a play through of this!

[@christianh.9631]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/jX3Lg2CChaqips0&t

[@raulcarmona4515]

I would have liked they added some elements/connections between Pantheon and Agora to play them combined.

[@qumpelblase]

Maybe they bring a new mythology with 3 new gods for this expansion

[@ralelunar]

Was Agora a pre-planned expansion? It's interesting that the notches on the bottom of the main board fit perfectly with the notches on the Agora board.

[@mikemudrow]

I wonder that too. I always thought the notches under the board just told you where to put cards for the base game draft.

[@derekgoldstone5965]

I'm sure the notches were placed there for the possibility of adding another expansion board in the future. Likely not much of the expansion was pre-planned given the time between releases.

[@Hariainm]

Can you put a cube and then move the same cube out of his area of influence in the same turn? (meaning if you have enough blue cards to do 2+ actions). Or you can only move cubes in the area of influence dictated by your played senator card?

[@GaNSiNaTeR]

Honestly kinda a shame they didnt add like 1 more god to each of the pantheons with effects towards the Senate board / cards. Either way I'm looking forward to grabbing this! Good review!

[@wesbrowning5808]

Most publishers don't add content from a separate expansion in another expansion, ie expecting you already own a different expansion.

[@GaNSiNaTeR]

@@wesbrowning5808 Which as I said is kind of a shame. Imo, more publishers should be doing just that cause it gives another incentive to check out said previous expansions someone may have missed out on. Kind of like giving a "peek" at what the game also could offer if you want another expansion. It wouldnt negatively affect most games at all either, just adds more variety.

[@goodsound4756]

@@wesbrowning5808 , Roll Player Fiends & Familiars actually is doing so.

[@leobetosouza]

@@wesbrowning5808 Repos in the past was a exception. But these days of Asmodee are very dark.

[@Jayl__]

I haven’t even played the first expansion yet and I purchased it and have it sitting around.... and now I’m considering buying a second one... just feel like the inertia of adding more rules just push me from playing it. I don’t play often and when I pick it up I hate remembering little fiddly rules. Not sure if I will pick it up.

[@budsticky]

Is bad components something normal for Repos? My copy of base 7WD had such poor cards that they were visibly and badly nicked up and scratched upon only a hand full of plays. Never seen that with any other game I've owned. I even wondered if I maybe got a counterfeit.

[@CharlesHepburn2]

Just learned and played the base game plus 1st expansion over the weekend... loved it! This 2nd expansion seems like a layer of complexity that doesn't really add much fun to the game. What's the appeal? Is it worth all that extra fiddly-ness?

[@gitgeronimo9375]

I’ve been waiting for this! When does it release?

[@ringostarr7080]

Does it all fit in the basebox?

[@gitgeronimo9375]

So you did play with both expansions together? Awesome!

[@tomasxfranco]

"... be careful playing both together since then it's no longer a small game", Zee. He soesn't really recommend it one way or the other.

[@jednooki555]

Nice review. How are the new cards incorporated in existing set of cards? Do you need to loose guilds/temples?

[@mr.rogers7612]

Rules say adjacent "chamber" not section. If you could place one on the respective section THEN move out of that section...whats the point of a senators restrictive section?

[@brunnomv]

A must-buy for me!

[@troddy3925]

There seems to be an issue in the manual where it says how to set up the cards in the beginning. You take out 3 cards from each age, while then adding 5 senators to the 1st age, 5 to the 2nd, and 3 senators to the 3rd. The problem is: you need 23 total cards to make the 3rd age formation, but if you take out 3 3rd-age cards in the beginning and add 3 senators, that only gives you 20 cards to build the required formation when you need 23? In other words, don’t take out three cards from the 3rd age in the set up at beginning, and just add the 3 senators. Even though the instructions say otherwise. Did anybody else notice this or am I missing something with the Agora instructions?

[@Endeva09]

You take out 3 age 3 cards, add 3 guilds in, then add 3 senators.

[@LorenzoLiverani]

What to do with those bad cubes? I opened my copy today and you're right, they really suck. Already damaged and chrome colour comes off. Do they replace or something?

[@scottmccloud2894]

Pantheon is a must have and use. Agora is a so-so. Will say though, you must watch and counter any senate influence play -if not, a quick Political Supremacy win will get you.

[@josecarlosjunior9741]

Hey! Does anyone know if there will be/are any 7 wonders duel promo cards this year? Thanks!

[@Slyfox1775]

When will this be released and or be able to pre order ?

[@fearanarchy]

Available Mid November at the earliest it would seem

[@javaaad]

Can we combin with first expansion? Or shuld playin sepration

[@AthexTube]

Nice review, a solid expansion but sounds like patheon is still the go to one for Duel

[@AltarenGalil]

yeah its a second expansion in every sense of the word, really meant for those that played the base game hundreds of times and then the expansion a bunch as well. Its good that its available for those people but for others who only play every now and then the base game is more than enough.

[@manthosparaskakis9053]

I literally live 5 minutes away from knossos

[@runningtrack307]

I love this game but always feel that 3 ages are not enough, there should be more time to enjoy it

[@GretSeat]

This seems like a stand alone game. Not sure how I can see how it works in Duel.

[@jayc2193]

I just want more wonders and pantheon cards.

[@Hardcorestilllives]

i think agora is too much. the pantheon expansion is perfect and thats good enough :)

[@georgecook83]

If someone didn't like pantheon do you think they would enjoy this one?

[@fearanarchy]

It depends on what they didn't like. Was it the Gods themselves, like their effects? Or was it the change in mechanics? If it is the Gods, I think this is a variant of them that is equallymyet differently manipulative. Mechanically it seems an easier, but more mathy teach

[@lorenzohot5234]

I think so. It depends why you didn't like it. This will add more complexity to the base game but is more tactical and building things slowly. Maybe you like the base game for what it is, simple and quick. I enjoy pantheon but do not always use it and often play the base game. In this way expansions are there when you want a little extra in the mix. Maybe watch someone do a play through before you decide.

[@fredfredrickson5436]

Why don't they just add 3 new ages?

[@pandaparadise6603]

So can you not mix both expansions?

[@rennyroufail728]

He comments that you can combine the two but it may be harder to keep track of what's going on and complicate the game overall. I guess it depends if you like the game more simplified or offer more options.

[@pandaparadise6603]

@@rennyroufail728 Yeah I wrote the comment before the video was over. Should have waited.

[@rafaelzink370]

i played a lot of both expansions, and i must say that if you mix them, it dosent go well, the game feels cramped, too much to take, where each player just go for one specific strat and if it work it worked, instead of the overall strategy of the original game. if you only play with agora, you cant ingore the senate, the bonus are just too strong, and it plays nicely if both are competing. tho i must say the new conspirator wonder is the best in the game by far, is basicaly 2 free cards ( one conspirator card, plus the one you use to activate) and 6gold and a free turn??? balance team went nuts here, we put this card asside when playing.

[@dago6410]

The gods one sounds like a bit too much weirdness and wasted potential (would have to check it tho). This one has me at 'new way to win the game", the main reason I find &wonders duel an amazing fun game is connected to its different wincons.... A totally new one sounds like f u n!

[@notsaved]

agorà pls

[@ReadyAimFire_]

I dont know, usually expansions ruin base experience for me, add new tiresome mechanics, exceptions, new rules and fiddliness. This one looks like one of them.

[@velkyrostak4347]

first one here :-)

[@rickystroud4820]

2nd

[@maxducoudray]

AH-go-ra. Accent on the first syllable.

[@notsaved]

it's on the last a actually

[@KissellMissile]

This is interesting. In Greek the accent is on the last syllable. I have always heard it in English with the accent on the middle syllable, although because of this comment I checked some dictionaries and they say the first syllable.

[@maxducoudray]

@@KissellMissile I think last syllable accenting is too foreign for English speakers, and the accepted pronunciation is a little closer to the Greek. Middle-syllable emphasis makes it very different (though more typical of English's accenting patterns).

[@LorenzoLiverani]

Italy, always said and heard as "Agorà"

[@Skrotetor]

It's agorà. Not agòra. It's Greek, not English.