75,000 Unlawful train fare prosecutions & UK's final coal train runs | Ep 40

[@GreenSignals]

If you like the episode, please give it a thumbs up 👍And if you want to see more, hit that Subscribe button. We promise it's worth it! 😃

[@RoddyJenkins]

Always more than happy to give the episodes a thumbs up here on KZbin, guys! Another wonderfully edited edition of Green Signals by Richard 👏 Thank you to the whole team - we must inc the equally talented Stef here - for continuing to provide us all with excellent content each week

[@NewCityMedia]

Well guys, another wonderful episode, thank you, and one which had a particular poignancy for me, as probably at the very time you were recording it, I was trying to get off the Isle of Wight on polling day to get home to London, but was met with yet another signal fault necessitating the withdrawal of the Island Line service at the very time you were talking about another imminent closure of that very line! As a frequent visitor to the island, I have to confirm my exasperation at the prospect of yet another extended closure. Considering that the railway was granted £26M in 2019 to upgrade the whole system, including 'new' rolling stock (in effect, refurbished ex London underground D78 Stock, rebuilt by the Vivarail), since it's reopening it has been beset by problems. The promised half hourly service, occasioned by a new passing loop at Brading Station, has hardly ever materialised, and now it has quite a bizarre timetabling regime which sees three trains run every two hours, none of which conveniently meet the Wightlink FastCat passenger ferry service at the end of Ryde Pier, which is surely one of the reasons the railway exists in the first place! I shall be most interested in hearing from South Western Railway and Network Rail about exactly why the pier needs to be shut, yet again, for an extended amount of time. Quite frankly, the reason given that previously work was not completed due to bad weather doesn't quite explain it away. Make no mistake, when this railway works, it's great, but ever since they stopped running the 1938, yes 1938, Tube stock in early 2021, the railway has not operated well! David

[@richardhayter4143]

Richard again from Western Canada, moving the mics was not a joke, so I am pleased I have some support! Thank you so now I can see your lovely faces!!

[@GreenSignals]

You're most welcome Richard!

[@ShaunMcDonald]

I agree much easier watch now as part of the face isn't hidden by the mic.

[@pubquiz1349]

Speaking about closing the Island line for maintenance. they want to consider extending the period to convert the awful and outdated use of jointed track in to welded continuous track, I can tell you the ride quality is painful at best and it's currently the UK's only main line that uses the outdated jointed track method, you might want to ask why they chose to relay this track this way during the so called Revamped of the line a few years ago and it after speaking to locals it certainly puts off local ridership...Nigel

[@GreenSignals]

That’s an interesting point. We will put that to Network Rail when they come on the show to chat about it.

[@dennisroots1529]

Big thank you on the Mic's. A small change that makes a big difference to your already great programme. Regards, Dennis

[@GreenSignals]

You are most welcome Dennis. A great suggestion.

[@MRB1SHQP]

Hi there, just wanted to mention that I am in Christchurch New Zealand and I usually listen to the podcast whilst I'm doing model railway stuff at the weekend. Great show, really good watch love the content and interviews.

[@GreenSignals]

Excellent! Delighted you enjoy the show.

[@little_britain]

That Andy Byford interview was indeed superb. We in Toronto were extremely fortunate to have him when we did.

[@GreenSignals]

Yep, he's outstanding and did a great job in Toronto.

[@cameronpatterson1045]

Hi you Two from Glasgow another great podcast from you keep up the good work and thanks again for the Show

[@TheDaf95xf]

Good evening guys. Thanks fir the mention 😊 As always great pod cast 👍🏻

[@GreenSignals]

You're most welcome Stevie!

[@IBLRG]

From us all at The Independent Brigg Line Rail Group. Let's see if a change of government brings a change of attitudes towards lines that have been neglected passenger service wise

[@GreenSignals]

Thanks so much guys - really appreciate it. And yes, wouldn't that be wonderful - a real change in approach.

[@DERP_Squad]

An important point about the SJP test case. The guy who was prosecuted was pulled out of a queue where he was waiting to buy a ticket from a booth set up for the purpose of selling tickets to those who had not been able to buy them before arriving at their destination. The SJP process did not afford him the ability to raise this issue, and the train company does not seem to have informed the court of it either, only that he was caught without a ticket.

[@GreenSignals]

Thanks - where in the public domain would I be able to find that source. Useful for research!

[@DERP_Squad]

I'm not sure I can post a link, but from the ITV article 'Christian said: "I thought I'd either get [a ticket] on the train or the excess fares booth in Leeds. And then when I didn't see a conductor on the train, I got to the excess fair window there was a group of revenue inspectors and they pulled me out of the queue and they gave me a penalty fare.' I can't find the article that mentioned his experience with the SJP at the moment. I read it on the train yesterday and don't remember where it was published.

[@jamesnegus83]

Keep up the stellar work gents. You're making a difference

[@GreenSignals]

Thanks so much James, that's really kind of you.

[@MrMWRMWR]

Hixon Wikipedia page needs updating to reference the memorial.

[@MercenaryPen]

Forgive me for saying this, but I believe that Richard has his UK and US billions the wrong way round... the UK (and by extension european) definition of a billion was a million million (with some european languages having a Milliard to represent a thousand million)

[@GreenSignals]

Indeed. A considerable serving of humble pie will be eaten next week.......!

[@briangriffiths1285]

The Isle of Wight might have a difficulty with its rail but its roads are infamously bad. Whilst I haven't been back for some years the bus services were much better than on the mainland running later into the evening and being used by an elderly passenger group after evening events too. Of course maintaining the rail with experienced engineers is tricky, they won't live on the IoW. And the pier likely needs replacing rather than refurbishing. The rail link and the pier do offer the speediest link to the mainland with a surprisingly quick journey to London when all works as it should.

[@adrianbaron4994]

Wasn't the Island Line fully upgraded and renovated not so long ago?

[@GreenSignals]

Thanks. It's a number of years since I have been to the island but I sense a return visit coming up soon!

[@NewCityMedia]

@@adrianbaron4994 Yes, a £26M investment! Work was carried out from the beginning of 2021 for 10 months, with further work carried out in 2022/2023.

[@NewCityMedia]

@@GreenSignals Highly recommended. Meanwhile there are some good YT videos of it - my very short one shows the only time I've ever seen it run in four car formation, instead of two car formation - the Island Line had just reopened after refurbishment and is shown on the famous Ryde pier... kzbin.info/www/bejne/l2mUkn2Mnaegg9E

[@alexisdespland4939]

could you possibly include a picture of the new stained glass wondow in the next edition.

[@GreenSignals]

I'll need to try and find one but if I can then of course, yes.

[@GreenJimll]

I have relatives who live on the Isle of Wight, and transport infrastructure over there in general seems to be failing. Not only do they have the Island Line that had a major refurb (and long term closure) just a few years ago, but they also have a floating bridge that regularly doesn't work and a road network that continually feels the effects of the moving ground in various places around the island. Just recently one of the major roads between Upper and Lower Ventnor had to be closed for major repairs to be made.

[@796karen]

Not only does Ryde Pier need work but the other end of the ferry route Portsmouth Harbour station will need a lot of work doing to it before it disappears into the water. The Glasgow and South western was also redoubled as well the upgrade to the Settle and Carlisle for Humberston traffic.

[@GreenSignals]

Had not remembered about GSWR - thanks for the reminder. Presumably it was selective though, not redoubled throughout?

[@anthonypowell5665]

King coal may not be done yet. There's a mine in.tje vale of neath that's been allowed to continue operating as welsh government were told they didn't have the authority to refuse permission for the mine to operate. South wales and Margam gonna be hit hard now as summer goes on with tata shutting the blast furnaces down. No.5 was shut down today now port Talbot only has 1 furnace operating and that's only until September

[@GreenSignals]

Thanks - very interesting.

[@Torrington-er9uw]

Really enjoyed this episode, especially on coal traffic, which really reasonated - self and father worked in railfreight business and I recollect father saying post 84-85 miners strike - the ops manager at Uskmouth power station called him and said, 'thats it John we will never use rail again' And they didnt :o(

[@fatwalletboy2]

The abuse comments are shocking. Probably says more about those that come out with such vitreole than the people its aimed at......cracking video from LNER.

[@GreenSignals]

It's a great video - and yes, it speaks volumes about the passengers who say this terrible stuff.

[@tonysimons2860]

I have aged friends who own smartphones but have no idea how to use Apps,. Excellent programs thank you for all the effort you put in to bring interesting content to a wider audience.

[@GreenSignals]

Thanks Tony. Fair point and it is very important that rail is accessible to all. Also appreciate your kind feedback - really pleased you enjoy the show.

[@simonaltham9054]

It's very depressing that the Be Kind campaign is needed. Teams can only pass on what information they have and when things are changing rapidly they can very easily be behind the latest news, and the speed that things appear on social media just makes that worse. When I worked in aviation we used the SITA system, which was a teletype service that prioritises messages so that when the system is getting overloaded the most urgent go first, it also requires people to physically enter text messages and people would become most upset if we didn't have information on a departure from another airport that they've seen as delayed online a few seconds before phoning. Standard messages had a guaranteed delivery of within 2 hours of being sent!

[@GreenSignals]

That's a fair point Simon - depressing that it's needed at all.

[@gordondudman240]

In terms of Nigel's verbal slip about 'Anguler' he is in good company. When Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother named 86246 "The Royal Anglian Regiment" she inadvertantly called it "The Royal Anglician Regiment"!

[@GreenSignals]

Excellent!

[@gordondudman240]

Interesting use of the Regulation of Railways Act for fare evasions. BR used the Railway Byelaws as the basis of prosecution.

[@GreenSignals]

I believe some still do.

[@KlausEldritch]

Super thanks for everything you do. Looking forward to your new prescription element. Keep up your great work

[@GreenSignals]

Thanks Klaus! We really appreciate it.

[@allanmorton6022]

Great episode as always. Loved the Crewe to Manchester extension of a stopping train pretending to replace HS2! Did you see Royal Mail announcing cuts to flights just to add more traffic to road and not rail! Note that KZbin does apply auto generated subtitles to videos with speech but I find you need to edit it to correct mistakes!

[@MarkNoonan-y9f]

Hi Steph, Richard & Nigel. First off, thank you for creating a must listen event in my weekly calendar! I had to write though. I really like the sound of the membership part, happy to pay a little to support and get something extra. I can see that you have to start somewhere, but how long will us audio only consumers be left in the cold? Being a podcast (you even introduce it as such) allows me to be able to partake in a way that you tube never can and is hugely convenient so please, please don't forget about us. I see one of the huge benefits of the paid tier as being able to participate. I'm in the industry and would love to chip in, only occasionally and hopefully with meaning, as we all try to negotiate the head scratching decisions being made, however I feel rather excluded and shut out by the You Tube focus. Can you give any indication of when us audio prefers may get included? (I've even had to set up this profile just to leave this comment) Thank you Mark

[@GreenSignals]

Thanks Mark. A very good set of points and I am delighted to say we think we have cracked a solution to the audio scheme. Watch this space! Cheers. Richard

[@TrimeshSZ]

It's a perfect illustration of just how broken the UK "justice" system is though - that anyone could manage to initiate 75000 prosecutions without any actual legal basis AND NOBODY NOTICED just shows how excrably low the level of oversight in the legal system is.

[@Carlos-im3hn]

Perhaps if the UK decides to co-locate new nuclear power plants at existing coal-fired plant they can have multiple wins. 1. Use existing electric power distribution. 2. Use local 750C heat source to crack coal into clean burning fuels. 3. Continue mining UK coal. 4. Develop local chemical and fertilizer industries for farming and industry. These are all fantastic green energy goals !

[@hughcolton7236]

Richard please check your definition of a British billion compared with an American billion. From a Cornishman in the USA. Keep up the good work. I don't always agree with what's said, but I di appreciate the excellent detailed explanations.

[@GreenSignals]

Yep, much humble pie will be consumed on the show next week! Glad you are enjoying the shows!

[@petitnj]

The railroads must have gotten lawyers from the post office. Just arrest everyone - don’t read the law.

[@GreenSignals]

It will be very interesting to see what the written submissions with regards the 6 test cases say.

[@Stettafire]

It's almost like having individual institutions handle prosecutions (and not the usual people) is a bad thing

[@superted6960]

Just a quick heads up for those watchers/listeners who might be hard of hearing. Subtitles are available on KZbin if they help

[@bishwatntl]

Extending the West Midlands/LNWR trains to Manchester is a parallel to the existing Birmingham to Liverpool services. Cheaper than Avanti but slower; useful for those short of cash but with time on their hands.

[@GreenSignals]

Indeed, so absolutely not an alternative to HS2 - this proposal consumes capacity, rather than releases it.

[@Andrew-Peel-999]

WMT / LNWR need to focus on ensuring the services they run today are reliable before attempting to run additional services. Too many services cancelled due to traincrew shortages especially at weekends. A point that I hope Richard will raise if he gets to interview Dominic Booth.

[@ChrisExley-sk1fh]

Came on to Green signals late this week due to not being able to connect on Cross Country wifi restrictions. So connected Monday.

[@andyknott8148]

I could not help noticing, that above Richard's head you have displayed the episode number 🤗, is this a trend you are looking to continue? (Please note, this was a whimsical comment).

[@GreenSignals]

Oh, very droll! I did notice that when I was editing and thought - I wonder who will be the first to spot that? So well done!

[@ChrisExley-sk1fh]

Rail tickets. Look at the operators between York and Leeds, which are a case example. A passenger buys a TPE ticket, and then their planned train is late or cancelled. The passenger boards a Northern or Cross Country train and then are challenged and have to buy another ticket for their journey. Its that complexity that is not made known. And I was of the understanding that was a protected part of ticketing at privatisation.

[@unkleoo]

On the LNWR service extension - it will be interesting to see how much capacity it adds. These services started off as 4 car and are now 8 car - and are a really popular service.... so if they're already well loaded on their existing diagram - just how many more seats are available to service manchester passengers ?... or will they get stretched in length again to provide more seats ?

[@GreenSignals]

The plan is still to extend stopping services. Not the same as was planned under HS2.

[@stuart48br]

The extension of Stafford-Stoke-Crewe trains to Manchester Airport is doable and improves services to Manchester Airport from the South. Wilmslow - Crewe is not heavily used, and there are four platforms at Manchester Airport. At UK National Rail level (excluding open access), LNWR would not be extractive because they are (or will be) ultimately in same P&L as Northern. Platform capacity is going to be a problem at Manchester Victoria with the various proposed services, especially if they terminate there

[@kevinpoulton]

For many years on Northern you could get your ticket on the train . And Northern staff always happy to do it . Then we got the reverse informent poeple that give fines to poeple that would pay anyway

[@Stettafire]

Yes it's wrong really. Especially as some stations are unmanned. What they expect people to do? Online tickets often need printing facilities

[@kevinpoulton]

@Stettafire I was on northern train when they fine 2 girl must have been 13/14 travelling without Adult. They had the money for ticket in there hand and week before had payed on the train .

[@MervynPartin]

The riddle answer is PINZA, the Deltic Loco (or the racehorse).

[@GreenSignals]

We shall reveal the winner this week!

[@neilbennett7228]

Thanks!

[@GreenSignals]

Thanks so much Neil. Much appreciated!

[@ipcress1066]

Great podcast today, playing catch up as been away for a few weeks and can’t wait for your next post-election episode. One comment to make here, well two actually, firstly regarding the social media abuse piece, Nigel made the comment of don’t make a comment you wouldn’t make to someone’s face… my brother was station staff on London Underground and the abuse he received to his face was quite disgusting but it was treated as one of the unavoidable aspects of the job. Second point, fare evasion - something that really gets my back up is “There’s an app!” As Nigel says not everyone has a smart phone - well quite a few of older people don’t have smart phones actually but even so, for those who have smart phones it is ridiculous to expect someone getting to a station to find the ticket office closed and ticket machine out of order and possibly due to catch a train very shortly to have to try and download an app (if there’s a phone signal!) set up an account, set up a payment method and find and purchase the correct ticket m, all on a tiny little screen which many older people struggle to see clearly and use. Sorry to bang on about it but this expectation that a smart phone is an adequate replacement of a proper staffed service is so wrong - no more aptly demonstrated by old people (eg my parents) trying and mostly failing to try and navigate the NHS booking system… anyway keep up the good work! Paul

[@GreenSignals]

Fair point about the 'don't type what you wouldn't say to my face' etc. You are quite correct in that it shouldn't be said at all - in person or on keyboard.

[@blueskiesupnorth]

Missed last week due to campaigning for election. Keep it up!

[@iscmiscm]

Thanks from Ian. Love your channel

[@GreenSignals]

Thanks Ian! Glad you love the channel.

[@iscmiscm]

Thanks

[@GreenSignals]

Thanks Ian - that is really appreciated!

[@gwrydd]

the quiz this week is hard i think the answer is "CITYL" "city of london"

[@GreenSignals]

Thanks - answer and winner announced this week!

[@DJ_K666]

Of course, you would expect their own lawyers to know whether SJPs were legal or not and advise accordingly. After sll they are trained in the law. So no, if they have to refund 75000 fines, it's entirely deserved, and I have zero sympathy. If they'd done it properly I'd say fair enough. It does that someone, somewhere is not doing their job properly.

[@mrcogginsgarage7062]

Interesting Riddle Richard or if it's the start of a train of quiz questions might it be RA Riddles? Sorry to hear that you've got LR problems if I can be of any use / advice give me a shout ,had more of them than hot dinners.

[@GreenSignals]

RA Riddles? Very good! The Defender is fine thanks Had to have a service ahead of an MOT and one minor issue with a bit of steering play but all sorted now. Must admit, I love my Defender!

[@stephendavies6949]

This issue of rail companies using the SJP has (albeit far less serious) echoes of the Post Office scandal. Some of the stories of those who have been prosecuted under this process are alarming/outrageous. The running of the last coal train truly is the end of an era, regardless of your views on global warming and climate change. I grew up in South Wales, the son of a coal miner, where the landscape was shaped by coal mining and the railways that moved the output. At the height of the industry, a coal train passed through Pontypridd Station on average every 7 mins, 24 hours per day, 7 days a week. The king is dead.

[@kevinpoulton]

I saw the Revenue Enforcement Officer on northern they did not tell poeple they was getting a fine just would get letter posted for cost and tell poeple it was okay nothing to worry about . Do not mind when they was standing on platform when train comes in

[@taipizzalord4463]

Cracking down on 'fare evasion' has always been one of the favourite pastimes of the 'there is no free lunch' neoliberal fiscal rectitude paradigm. Not to mention that this hurts people in the lower deciles the most. Of course the costs of enforcement is an order of magnitude larger than what is recouped back. But they never mention that. See NY MTA for example. This is not to mention that public transport should be free anyway to lower barriers to entry and increase modal shift. Which would be more economically productive as well if you care about that. Instead of spending significant resources on punitive measures, one would argue that those resources are better invested in improving and expanding public transport services.

[@GreenSignals]

The phrase "one of the favourite pastimes of the 'there is no free lunch' neoliberal fiscal rectitude paradigm" definitely wins "most impenetrable phrase of the month". Well done!

[@jamesnegus83]

That hit home 😞 everyone #bekind

[@GreenSignals]

Agreed!

[@Aspen90]

Just an idea, but to cover costs and more, would it be possible to purchase mugs? That may help you to expand the providing. Just a thought!

[@GreenSignals]

It's a good idea - just need to decide whether setting up a shop with a payment gateway on the website (which isn't cheap) will deliver an acceptable ROI and over how long. Once a numbers guy, always a numbers guy!

[@Gert-DK]

Transport and Post Office. What's next in the UK?

[@royluxford2925]

Think you missed the point regarding transporting coal. The miners strike was too stop Thatcher closing the pits the solidarity from the rail unions was to protect their jobs as well. The reason coal traffic declined was because the country let the miners down. 40 years later global warming is the cause.

[@GreenSignals]

If that was indeed the purpose of the strike then it's fair to say perhaps more time should have been spent on strategy and planning. Stockpiles at power stations were high in 1984 and the fact that Scargill did not seek or secure a national ballot / mandate turned out to be a serious mis-step.

[@wrangerrob]

Rob back couple of points I understand the need to close coal fired power stations, but surely we should have the replacements ready (whatever they may be) FIRST! I live near three closed power stations. High Marham long gone.Cotton and West Burton A be demolished. Rail lines to the latter two are overgrown. Closing in Summer is great but power is needed in winter , a thinking along the miners strike, does not an all out strike at Port Talbot steelworks help it close? Lessons are never learnt.

[@richardskelton5119]

No need to close coal fired power stations when they are building them in China and India and we have 300+ years of supply under the ground. People need cheap energy not Climate lies.

[@GreenSignals]

I hear there may be some movement on Port Talbot if the reports in the media over the weekend are to be believed.

[@robertwalsh1724]

So how do you top the Andy Byford interview? No pressure.

[@GreenSignals]

Honestly Bob, I have been scratching my head since we recorded it. We do have some excellent plans but you're right - it will be very hard to top!

[@robertwalsh1724]

@@GreenSignals You have been on a roll since the show started. But there is a deep bench in rail. But up to date you have certainly managed to nail down some great interviews.

[@simoncroft9792]

Re the SJP . Gatwick express ?

[@robertwalsh1724]

Amtrak staff just take your credit card and sell you a ticket on the train.

[@GreenSignals]

And there's no penalty for doing that?

[@gwrydd]

hey im actually on time for once

[@GreenSignals]

Excellent!

[@PC49_lives]

Last coal train to the last coal power station, HURRAY! Horrible stuff, rightly relegated to the past. Ratcliffe power station at most provides about 1% of total UK electricity often as little as 0.1% in a month. It won't be missed.

[@GreenSignals]

I don't think anyone was really disagreeing with that point of view in principle (although you make your point in a fairly direct manner!)

[@biemis6663]

The word picture of all those three peaks sweaty feet has made think you you should change you title to "Single Yellow Signals!"🤢🤣

[@GreenSignals]

Yes, I'm not sure Nigel needed to put that image in our heads!

[@Richardhill1978]

Im signing ip for membership hopefully I’ll get 007 or 125 or the favour tie class I’ve worked on 170

[@GreenSignals]

That's some dedication there Richard! But great to know you're keen to sign up 🙂

[@bazzacuda_]

They stole 58041's name. It hasn't even been scrapped yet.

[@GreenSignals]

Been a few examples of name swaps over the years hasn't there?

[@bazzacuda_]

@@GreenSignals Plenty, but putting it on a shed is just offensive.

[@MercenaryPen]

In the long run, I feel there needs to be a fixed link between the Isle of Wight and the mainland... most likely in the form of a tunnel under the Solent. Whether such a tunnel would include capacity for rail I would defer to the experts, but it seems unjust that access to jobs and other opportunities on the UK mainland should be locked behind substantial fares for ferry crossings

[@robertwalsh1724]

Thanks!

[@GreenSignals]

Thank you Bob - really appreciated.

[@ChrisExley-sk1fh]

Thanks

[@rolandharmer6402]

Thanks!

[@GreenSignals]

Thanks Roland! Very kind of you.