#79 | This is crazy! 400C and still not melting!!!

[@webfundi]

This is the most thorough walk through that I've seen of a BGA rework station on KZbin! Thank you!! I have a Puhui T870A which does not have a controller unit where you can progam profiles. Can call it "light" IR and not dark IR like your IR6500 - and has worked fine for the repairs I do

[@blackhorserepairs]

Thank you so much! Yeah, I was going to get that station but they are no longer available for some reason

[@jeffcole5708]

About to buy one or build buying the individual parts. I'm now going back to the drawing board and reprice different parts. Cheers for the video. Just a quick one, I've seen some vids where the head is really close to the component, smoked and worked.

[@blackhorserepairs]

yes, I have completely changed my opinion on this device and I should have disassembled it before I started using it. I will have another video on it soon with all the knowledge I gained in the last few days.

[@jimmius2]

Hi i have the IR6000 , i have made lot of test in the past...., the thermocople theory (thermocouple inside Heater) you assumed for the Top IR Heater is only applied for the Bottom IR Heater on this types of IR preheaters.. The Bottom IR Preheater have to be able to deliver 120C to 150C (or more, test ,test, test) on pre-heated board - on Top thermocouple before you start Top IR Heater profile. 12:04 you have only 48.8C on Top thermocouple.. . Finally the Top IR Heater have to be able to focus IR beam to component area evenly (test , test , test with [[ black spot burns on white paper technic ]] the focus IR Beam). Info (Every IR Heater delivers different focus beam).

[@blackhorserepairs]

I'll test that, thank you. the board goes to around 80C MAX when the bottom heater is set to maximum of 420C

[@jimmius2]

Low the distance of bottom IR pre-Heater to the Board as posible (use books), if you need more you have to remove Bottom Heater internal thermocouple and bing it 10 cm close to center (not center) bottom of board (out of top IR heater focus area) [for every new board you calibrate bottom thermocople]. This worked for me. Note :The internal cable thermocouple it is thick and flexible. , if you need more !!! (i do not thing so) your bottom heater is not capable to preheat this board you need pre-heater IR Heater upgrade . Test, Test, Test.....

[@blackhorserepairs]

@@jimmius2 I used your advice from yesterday and I'm happy to report that it worked and I got the socket soldered on, check it out

[@fur_deutschland]

Najmniejszy ruch wymuszający wymianę powietrza otaczającego radiator powoduje jego ostudzanie. Pracowałem kilka lat na podczerwieni i pomimo spokoju w pomieszczeniu zawsze jak chociaż z jednego boku położyłem przysłonę z metalowej blachy jaką akurat skądś miałem (nie przy górnym promienniku tylko przy stacji) kulki pod układami miękły mi znacznie szybciej. Nie wiem jak tu jest ale bym spróbował. Ciekawe rzeczy pokazujesz. Pozdrawiam.

[@blackhorserepairs]

I am currently working on some kind of enclosure for the bottom heater. I have definitely noticed this effect, I think I even mentioned that. I think I'll start with some aluminium foil first and once I know what works I'll weld some steel onto the frame. Should be an interesting video. Thank you so much for your comment.

[@3ijnweu3oq3]

Also I saw a video where you had to use different flux when cleaning the solder, it’s not because of flux burning as much as you not having enough heat. You can try to do the work and clean up the solder pads why the board is still warm and sitting in the bga, use hot air along with soldering iron to remove or use those phone repair heat mats that max temp is 120c and put the board ontop and work on that like a preheater 😊

[@blackhorserepairs]

I'll try that

[@ziafathussain8546]

The board temperature is very important you need set the pre heater to 350+ and on the top heater fix the thermal sensor on the side of ir and set it to around 160

[@blackhorserepairs]

once I removed the glass 160C on the bottom heater gives me around 95C on the board, it changes a lot

[@ziafathussain8546]

​@@blackhorserepairsthe bottom heater needs to be set to 350+ and same for top heater the plastic will only melt if you leave it on too long or place it too close to the socket

[@ziafathussain8546]

You want more heat from the bottom and a short burst from the top

[@blackhorserepairs]

@@ziafathussain8546 yep, I resolved those issues with some mods and feedback from you guys. Thank you!

[@shakangel666]

Are you using the Hb option correctly? The manual's explanation is misleading. I’ve had issues with my profiles because of this setting. With Hb, the machine allows a specific temperature difference between SV and PV. For example, with Hb set to 10, the machine will pause heating until the difference is less than 10 degrees before continuing to the next step. I noticed your profile's temperature rises faster than the actual probe/board temperature.

[@blackhorserepairs]

oh, that makes sense, I'll test that, why would they publish example curve where Hb is set to 230C? That doesn't make sense. Thank you so much, I'll test it tomorrow morning

[@ziafathussain8546]

Get the board upto 200c then place the top heater but make sure the top heater is already hot

[@blackhorserepairs]

200C on the board seems a bit high, with this heater I'm having some success with around 95C on the board and 225C on the top heater. Probably depends on the board

[@ziafathussain8546]

@blackhorserepairs I reflow gpu and remove them with that temperature otherwise the solder doesn't melt and bga station is my own diy built 😀

[@blackhorserepairs]

@@ziafathussain8546 DIY builds are always the best

[@phillangstrom8693]

(1) there's a reason why they use flux (2) heat the board from both sides lift the top heater and drop the socket in place

[@MarkC-1970]

I think you are seeing the reflected IR radiation and not the real surface temp. If it was 400C balls and plastic would all melt. I haven't received my IR6500 yet but I am following your experiences with great interest. Thanks again.

[@blackhorserepairs]

That is correct, I have already improved that aspect and learned a lot from this experience and the comments from you guys

[@khaledmersaoui1727]

i lost my display in my ir6500 under guareenty by amazon and they do not want to return or change ,i only used 3 months

[@blackhorserepairs]

That sucks, usually Amazon is pretty good about returns, I guess this was an affiliate store or something. You can probably just replace the controller

[@stoptheirlies]

Hi, If the balls are not melting you have not got the temperature. Be careful that the tinfoil is not reflecting that laser and giving false results. I fit sockets with 320 I/R under the board and 260 with hot air on top, of course everyone will get different results, but those temperatures you are reporting Raff are just wrong, if you had temperatures at those levels all the components on the underside of the board would drop off. Also it does not happen fast, can take ten to 15 minutes. Bob. UK

[@blackhorserepairs]

You're absolutely right Bob, my thermometer was reading IR temperature, not the surface temperature. I dropped to 220C and kept it for 10 minutes and the solder finally started melting, the socket is still not soldered on correctly but I know what I was doing wrong. Thank you so much!

[@pe1dnn]

​@@blackhorserepairs Maybe shut down the IR transmitter for a second during the temperature measurement. Off, take measurement, On, this way for sure you do not measure direct IR rays because in that breef time there are not any. I also wonder is these sockets should maybe heated from below instead from above. Through the board basically...

[@stoptheirlies]

Hi Raff, Nice one mate. I forgot to say yesterday that although setting the temp. to say 300 or 320 under the board, the gap between the heater and the board means it will take some time for the board to get hot and it will never be the same temp. as the heater. But I do realise you are intelligent enough to know that already. I can't help much with I/R heating from above as I don't have one, just hot air. But I wonder, that fan built into the top unit, should that be on to blow heat down on the socket like a hot air system? As the balls of solder are under the socket nearest the PCB, I try to have the board temp. about ten or so degrees below solder melting point and the top heater just takes it hot enough to melt, this protects the socket, but never move the board when hot as you may knock components off underneath. Bob

[@blackhorserepairs]

@@pe1dnn great idea, unfortunately this device doesn't have the pause button, if you stop the program you need to start from the beginning. Yes, my previous setup would heat the board mainly from the bottom (130C) this one gets barely 80C In my latest video I explained all that and even got the socket soldered on :) check it out

[@blackhorserepairs]

@@stoptheirlies thanks Bob, yeah I corrected the impact of the fan in my latest video

[@MrGridStrom]

Does the machine support actual BGA reflow (time vs temperature) profiles? I understand you're trying to get consistency, and the fact that the upper IR element has no temperature monitoring is somewhat concerning, because how on earth are you meant to control the upper IR elements temperature. I've got my eyes on the LY IR8500 but after seeing this im not sure anymore. Even the sellers on Aliexpress would not answer any of my questions, before I buy the machine, this raised red flags. If I were you, I would have applied some flux designed to be used with BGA to the board pads, before doing the reflow.

[@3ijnweu3oq3]

thats whats the thermal couple is for which you place beside what you want to remove/solder

[@MrGridStrom]

@@3ijnweu3oq3 So the BGA time curve is using the temperature from the thermal couple?

[@3ijnweu3oq3]

@@MrGridStrom Yes for the top heater, the bottom heater there is a thermocouple on it. Thats why I like hot air bga station with top and bottom being hot air as they have a thermocouple inside them aswell as infared surrounding it having a thermocouple measuring them too

[@blackhorserepairs]

can you link me the flux you use for this purpose?

[@3ijnweu3oq3]

@@blackhorserepairs I use amtech nc 559 for lead and lead free solder. Never had an issue with it. Your bga station, no offense has a lot of bad reputation, similar people had similar results. I recommend if you want the bga station to be a lot better you should put elstein heating plates, or instead I prefer hot air stations honestly due to its controllability put a hot air bga attachment on top.