Doctor Who: Classic 21x7: "The Twin Dilemma" Parts 1-4 | FINALE REACTION!!

[@alexthehunted]

Poor colin baker he wanted this role so badly and this is what they give him as his first story

[@MetalPharoah]

He signed on for 10 years. They had an entire roadmap for him as well. The regen was forced as Doctor Who died. That scrambled him into a cruel uncaring Doctor that was meant to learn the more time went by and by the end of the 10 years he's back to himself and you don't want him to go.

[@BernardJKD]

C​olin Baker signed one 3 year contract and that is it. It was not renewed.

[@MetalPharoah]

@@BernardJKD I didn't say contract. He had told them he was willing to go for 10 years, and they had a roadmap of a huge story planned that for axed by Michael Grade after his first season

[@alexthehunted]

"I am the doctor whether you like it or not" that sure is a brave and risky thing to say to the audience.

[@elliottnoad1270]

Especially when S22 was over 9 months (5th Jan 1985) away back when part 4 aired end of 30th March 1984 Unlike say Christmas Invasion (even more if you count it as part of Revival S1)-> Revival S2's New Earth being shy of 4 months (25th December 2005->15th April 2006) or What's happening with new who (based on iPlayer's layout of all of 2023 being together) having 4 specials be the starter to/first 4 episodes of New S1/Revival S14 in 2023 25th November- 9th December & 25th December 2023, then the 2024 portion of New S1/Revival S14 starting sometime in May (again based on BBC giving us the start month). Both being less than 3 quarters of the year

[@NaanProphet]

There was an old review on a site that no longer exists that basically went like this: "Watching The Twin Dilemma immediately after The Caves of Androzani is like finally getting to sleep with that person you fancied for years...only to then find out they've given you an STD. Except painful venereal diseases are more fun than watching The Twin Dilemma" Regarding Big Finish and fitting things everywhere, my favorite has to be the Fifth Doctor, Tegan, and the Gravis having an adventure when dropping him off during the events of Frontios. They really will make a story out of any gap.

[@kierenevans2521]

You've already spotted Kevin McNally. The twin's father was played by Dennis Chinnery who was Gharman in Genesis of the Daleks, while Mestor is played by Edwin Richfield who was Captain Hart in The Sea Devils. Quite a comedown for both of them.

[@kemmdog4444]

Great minds think alike.😊

[@DeanStrickson]

And the Chamberlain was the butler in The Seeds of Doom. Another huge quality drop!

[@icantthinkofagoodusername4575]

11:52 he’s literally holding The Second Doctor’s Fur coat

[@Tyrconnell]

When the original VHSs came out I would sit and watch them in one sitting, regardless of the number of episodes....except this one. I watched part one, and then couldn't bring myself to watch the rest for a few weeks. I think I must have missed it on the original broadcast.

[@robvanriot]

The best thing that can be said for poor Colin's era is that it passes mercifully quickly

[@Mrazmatmahmood]

The most surprising thing about this reaction was when you guys were going through all the introductory stories for all the Doctors so far and said that the plot in Robot was awful and the only good thing about it was Tom Baker. That really caught me off guard because I remember you guys really enjoying that story as a whole, so I'm not sure where that came from.

[@stickytapenrust6869]

A serial can be awful but still enjoyable. For example, Destiny of the Daleks is pure bollocks plot-wise but is still entertaining.

[@Mrazmatmahmood]

@@stickytapenrust6869 Perhaps, but my point was that they were generally quite positive towards Robot in their reaction, plot included, so it was a surprise to hear them say it was awful. P.S. I think Destiny of the Daleks is utterly dreary and one of the dullest Doctor Who stories ever, but that's beside the point.

[@glenmcculla6843]

Vinz Clortho was the name of the other (non-Zuul) devil dog, IIRC. I have little left to offer on this story.

[@DamnQuilty]

Six is my Doctor. ❤

[@EvHervey]

Finalmente! (In a Sixth Doctor voice!)

[@kemmdog4444]

The twins father was played by the same man who played Gharman in Genesis of the Daleks.

[@paulrichards4452]

The Sixth Doctor gets off to a terrific start by dressing like a clown and trying to strangle Peri & his best friend! Colin Baker certainly shook up the role and played it like a manic alien. I like him. Not the best introduction to a new Doctor but still highly amusing. Power of the Daleks is brilliant. The Daleks at their most manipulative best and totally ruthless. Warriors Gate is a highly intelligent and surreal story. Each to their own. Great reactions.

[@kemmdog4444]

You wouldn’t recognize him because of the heavy makeup but Mestor is played by the same guy who was Captain Hart in The Sea Devils.

[@Foebane72]

Colin Baker, a GREAT and UNDERRATED Doctor Who!

[@woodhouse122]

Season 22 had decent ratings on a Saturday night so this story didn't really frighten off the casual audience

[@gman7924]

@18:25 The reason why he comes across as nasty and horribly obnoxious is that this incarnation was supposed to be more 'alien' in his personality. The Doctor essentially becomes more cold in nature due to having to sacrifice himself (and nearly dying) as a result of a petty feud. Obviously this wasn't done very well. Still, the scene with him choking Peri is very odd. I recommend watching a fantastic documentary created by 'Clever dick films', who does a fantastic job in explaining the behind the scenes turmoil that was brewing at the time. Link: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fpezh61omqieqtkfeature=shared

[@JAYWALKER1000]

The coat - the idea behind it was that the Gallifreyans don't have humanlike taste in clothing. Baker hated it. There's a blue version which is not as bad (can't remember if it was actually used or just a mock up). There's a video where someone fxed outfit to black - Baker loved it. In fact - kzbin.info/www/bejne/h6PNmGCtiqx_odk

[@jonathanmurphy3141]

You are both correct to serval factors about the initial 6th Doctor. These decisions made by production of DW, to challenge the audience. Colin B' has said that he didn't;t agree with early aspects of hi character, or his costume- he was hired to act. Colin B' said he would do the job for years -acting to pay for his family. Yes the BF audio have made his Doctor more manageable, and interesting. The ratings, you mentionin, the BBC had this -the twice a week (1982-84 Jan'-March) before the "hiatus" of months -The long amount of time between sessions....

[@ListerDavid]

Colin was my favourite Doctor till I started getting Pat’s few storys that was available on vhs at the time.

[@ThomCurley]

Fair points. All well made.

[@DonnaLang42rockglobally]

Colin absoluted abhored the Sixth Doctor's costume (the only exception being the collection of cat pins he wore as accesories). What he really wanted to wear was a dark coat and shirt with sturdy boots and dark trousers - something closer to what Christopher Ecclestion got as the Ninth Doctor. I feel bad that Colin didn't get a better introduction story, but imho it's far better than what his successor got. Btw, I had the honor of meeting Colin Baker when he was still the incumbant Doctor and he was truly charming and probably still is. Hopefully I'll get to test that theory before the decade is out.

[@aidanschannel7183]

Love the Sixth Doctor. Davison was pretty dull and I love that they went for something really different and someone that demands attention again. Plus he adores the show, was treated horribly and is such a lovely man, so he is definitely top five Doctors for me.

[@bjgandalf69]

Colin's performances in his Big Finish stories help make up for the perceived deficiencies of his televised serials and I have heard from his own mouth how he has nothing but praise for his treatment by BF and how much he has loved working for them.

[@donburks4464]

there was a lot behind the scenes drama (a) john nathan turner wanted to leave dr who to do other projects but the bbc bosses told him you doing dr, who ( b) john and script editor wasn't seeing eye to eye (c) nicola wanted to do other projects but john to her no and she was only doimg his projects and couldn't use her british accent and only us the american one which really reflects in the show

[@CRINOTH]

The "hairy wolfmen" are actually feathery birdmen - they're an avian species. Just one of the many things which doesn't quite work out in this story. Overall though, a lot of the Colin Baker era is good so I hope this experience won't cloud your judgement too much. :) In terms of viewing figures - each episode of this story had lower viewing figures than the one before it (going from 7.6m down to 6.3m). However, next season opened with 8.9 million viewers and averaged 7.1 million - so no lasting harm was done by The Twin Dilemma.

[@andygozzo72]

with the new title sequence there was a 'wink' they didnt use, a theres a fan video on here of it reinstated ..

[@andygozzo72]

" god, no " thats what most people thought, even colin baker himself, he hated that costume 😉

[@joshuajoshua2732]

Regarding the 6th Doctor's costume it was the 80's it was the time of bad fashion it's a reflection of the time and suits for that time of the show I'm probaly one of those rare fans that actually liked his outfit I just like the colours and how alien this Doctor looks I agree he's rude and abrasive but it also shows the Doctor's alien side which was one of the things i miss about Tom Baker's Doctor. John Nathan Turner the producer at the time purposely wanted to make the new Doctor unlikeable as he wanted to put that to the test, originally Colin Baker wanted to wear something similar to what Christopher Eccleston wore but JNT said no and that he thinks he should go totally "tasteless" and Colin Baker reluctantly agreed.

[@joshuajoshua2732]

Just going back to what you were saying Richard when you were watching the end credits about the theme being changed no it's still the same it's just you heard it fully for the first time since you guys cut off the ending so quick.

[@DeanStrickson]

In 2009, Doctor Who Magazine did a reader’s survey of best to worst stories of Classic and Modern Who. The Caves of Androzani came in at number 1. Guess which story ranked dead last at number 200? Yep, The Twin Dilemma!

[@bjgandalf69]

Alex and Richard, the crazy thing about the costume choice is that Colin wanted to wear something more like what Chris Eccelston wore as 9 but JNT said no, let's have you wear something totally tasteless...smh And you can also blame JNT for having Colin being at first extremely unlikeable, self absorbed, nasty and borderline psychotic as this was all to highlight the Doctor's alienness. Colin really hated the characterization aspect but take comfort in the fact that this was unsustainable so you have to summize that he will have to mellow over time and as we get past the regeneration adjustment.

[@keithalanbaker535]

While The Twin Dilemma is not a great story I think Colin Baker is an underrated Doctor with some ok stories but also some really good ones.

[@sebbiesda3305]

Exactly what you said Alex, I proved to be A Big mistake to make the doctor so unlikeable in the last story of the season, The plan was to soften his character over the next season. but most people didn't come back to watch it. it ended up getting put on hiatus for eighteen months halfway through the next series. they tried to cancel it

[@MuchWhittering]

Big Finish began in 1999 with Doctors 5, 6 and 7. They got 8 in 2001, and Tom Baker finally agreed to do stuff in 2012ish. They didn't get NuWho stuff until the War Doctor around 2015 I believe. So yeah, not a thing yet, but I think the idea was novels and comics could be set in the gap. It makes sense. There's nowhere in the continuity you can put stories with Hartnell, Ben and Polly, or stories with just Troughton and Jamie. And the only place you can do Hartnell/Stephen/Dodo is in a single scene change at the end of The Gunfighters. The stuff with the original TARDIS team can fortunately fit in quite comfortably between Planet of Giants and Dalek Invasion of Earth. This story isn't very popular. And rewatching it yesterday, it's hard to disagree. The guy who posts viewing figures will have to confirm it, but I don't think viewing figures dropped all that much for Season 22. The big drop is in a couple of years when it was scheduled at the same time as Coronation Street, a MASSIVE soap. Like, for comparison, that'd be like scheduling Doctor Who against Dallas. You do not do that. Apparently the explanation was "Well, Doctor Who and Corrie have different audiences anyway", and yeah, they probably do. But all it meant was parents watched Corrie and the kids couldn't watch Doctor Who. Actually, I've just checked, apparently Season 23 aired against The A Team. So I bet that was a hard sell. And just a guess from me, 1985 is when Back to the Future came out, which might have made Doctor Who look bad by comparison. I'm sorry to tell you, but Time and the Rani, Sylvester McCoy's first story, isn't very popular either.

[@richardlemin7840]

Much: I vaguely remember "Coronation Street" from 1964. ~Dad

[@MuchWhittering]

@@richardlemin7840 Yeah, it began in 1960, and it's still going to this day. It and Eastenders (began 1985) are the 2 big titans of British soaps.

[@zagreus139]

Alex moaning about the twins haircuts...hmmm

[@7thHourFilms]

Don't even!

[@zagreus139]

​@@7thHourFilmsthe words pot and kettle come to mind

[@davidbull7210]

How to tell Womulus and Wemus apart - Womulus is slightly more annoying than Wemus

[@AmyWarriorPrincess]

As people have said before in the comments, the reason why he went nuts is because the regeneration went wrong. There are people who actually like his coat. I'm one of them. I think it's cool. I also think the six doctor is very underrated, and you should really give him a chance.

[@DeanStrickson]

I like it too. It gives him an alien sensibility of fashion, and if the humans don’t like it, he doesn’t give AF! You do you, Doctor!

[@andrewbowman4611]

I'm going to stick up for this story. While it's far from perfect, it's pretty much in keeping with the rest of the season, in terms of aesthetic. It's very likely that The Caves of Androzani would have hampered any subsequent story. However, I've always thought it was a refreshing change, as this very much a Sixth Doctor story, inasmuch as you couldn't imagine any other Doctor in it. I'll also praise some of the performances, in particular Colin Baker and Maurice Denham. Yes, C.B.'s a bit unDoctorish in this, but that was always part of his plan. He'd planned to do 8 years, which new season peeling back further layers of the character, which would have been an interesting approach. Unfortunately, that never came to pass. Shockingly, the vitriol Colin received due to his portrayal was appalling. In particular, when he lost a child to SIDS, some fans - a tiny coterie, if we're being honest - said he deserved the heartbreak because he was such a bad Doctor. Awful stuff, obviously. Also, his career never really gained ground afterwards, with bit parts in various things over the years, from Jonathan Creek and Casualty to Hollyoaks and Doctors. That he's still very much active in fan events is a testament to the man, frankly.

[@GideonTyree]

I can't speak to the veracity of it, but I have read that executives at the BBC who wanted an excuse to cancel the series mandated that the writers make the Doctor as unlikeable as possible to sabotage the show.

[@Finbarzapek]

As a kid in 1984 I hated this. I remember my Dad mocking the Doctor’s new outfit, plus we were just in absolute disbelief when he tried to strangle Peri. Huge mistake. Once the Doctor tries to hurt a friend then he ceases to be a trustworthy hero. I can just imagine a whole generation of children who previously dreamed about going away in the Tardis as a companion suddenly thinking “nah, I’m good.” I remember being convinced that Hugo was going to be a new companion. Thankfully, the next season was a lot better.

[@MetalPharoah]

They wanted this Doctor Who to start that way, where you can't trust and hate him the end of the 10 year plan he would be himself again. That's the backstory from the writers at the time with a template they had.

[@travisgray8376]

The 6th doctor gets better I really like season 22 but gotta give the sixth doctor a chance

[@whobp8]

While I personally feel that there are both good things and bad things about John Nathan Turner as producer of Doctor Who, one of his biggest weak spots (IMO) is, unlike all of his predecessors in the role, he had limited involvement in the writing of the series and largely left that up to whomever was script editor at the time. Eric Saward took over as script editor towards the end of Peter Davison's first season and would remain in the job throughout Colin's era. IMO, and this is only my opinion, Eric Saward kind of sucks at characterization. The reason that the Fifth Doctor and Tegan argue so much is that, whenever a script was running short and needed an extra scene to pad it out, Saward as editor would write an argument cuz it was a quick (and lazy IMO) thing to write. If you feel that Turlough's story arc isn't very well defined, remember it was Saward who was overseeing it. There are a number of character traits that are established for the Fifth Doctor in his earliest stories, which were edited by Anthony Root, which essentially disappear when Saward takes over. No more cricket stuff, the Doctor stops using his glasses (except in Frontios a story written by another earlier script editor, Christopher Bidmead.) Looking at three stories that Saward wrote personally, I love The Visitation, but the only proper character aside from the TARDIS crew, is the highwayman, Mace. Most of the other characters aren't even given names, being referred to as the Miller, the Poacher, the Man With the Axe, etc. Earthshock is a fun action romp, but Nyssa is sidelined for most of the story, Lieutenant Scott and his men mainly exist to serve as cannon fodder for the Cybermen and exactly why is the human traitor helping the Cybermen? The Doctor asks him point blank at one point, but receives no answer, his motivation is plot convenience, I guess. Resurrection of the Daleks has too many plot threads and too many characters, most of whom are under developed. The character of Stein in that story is revealed to be a Dalek agent, who has only been pretending to be cowardly, but he was pretending to be cowardly even when he was completely alone, before he met the Doctor, Tegan and Turlough. Again, poor characterization. Which brings us to this story. John Nathan Turner had wanted a very traditional story with a strong villain, but Saward decided to go with a story which was largely about the regeneration itself. The idea was that the Sixth Doctor would initially be unlikeable, but viewers would warm to him as they learned more about his true personality. With good characterization, this might have worked but, as you've seen, this doesn't quite come off. One of the points of the Fifth Doctor regenerating in the penultimate story of this season was so viewers could get an idea of what the new Doctor was like without waiting a whole year, but this is undone by doing a story that leaves viewers still without any clear idea of what the Sixth Doctor's personality really is. There are other problems with this story of course, they cast the Conrads because they were real twins, but they were inexperienced actors and it shows. The Mestor mask makes him look cross-eyed and the fact that the Gastropods can barely walk without assistance makes it difficult to believe they were able to conquer anything. Hugo conveniently picks the outfit which the power pack of his gun is hidden in from a room full of clothes. Mestor's plot is dependent on Azmael forgetting how gravity works, etc, etc. Despite all of this, I do feel Colin is a good Doctor. He shines more in Big Finish, where his characterization is in the hands of different editors, but I think you'll get some enjoyment from at least a few of his stories. The good news is, this story is considered his low point, so it's all uphill from here. 😂

[@SadBnnuy]

I always found 6s unlikeability hilarious. Big Finish made him such a boring flanderization of what it is to he a Doctor. When he lost his edge he became dull to listen to. I'll always love him and his seasons. Was a great shakeup after the pretty safe Davison.

[@alexbovenstein]

I love love love this story.

[@richardivory606]

Looking at the Sixth Doctor through your own eyes. Not popular opinion. I thoroughly enjoy Colin Baker/The Sixth Doctor.

[@joshuajoshua2732]

I liked the idea of the regeneration going haywire I liked it as an experimental thing I think the strangling of a companion was a step too far but they took a risky interesting experiment I'll give them that atleast which I feel writers such as RTD or Moffat wouldn't have enough courage to do.

[@majkus]

The whole 'difficult regeneration' thing wouldn't have been so bad on its own, maybe, but the story was such a mediocrity, with the titular twins played by boys with basically no acting experience, that fans were pretty dismayed. Baker did get some good episodes, but I think he didn't come into his own until the Big Finish audio adventures.

[@Jaketherobonrd]

Oh boy, now we gone from the best story of the show to what is considered the worst story of the show. I did rewatch this story recently with a friend of mine. And honestly this story is not as bad as everyone makes out to be back then. It’s definitely not perfect but the reason why this story gets a bad rap because everyone didn’t like Colin Baker as the sixth Doctor and the way he treated Peri. But today Colin’s Doctor is more appreciated by us fans and we love him. So maybe not the greatest story but in my opinion not the worst. Also Hugo Lang is played by Kevin McNally who you probably seen in Jodie Whitaker’s era Flux and Gibbs in the Pirates of the Caribbean movies.

[@Mrazmatmahmood]

Ah yes, the one where Alex and Richard finally find out what a bad post regeneration story actually is! I will say, despite the awful writing, Colin Baker gives a great performance in this and is immensely entertaining, for all the wrong reasons but still. With that being said, there are small moments even in this story when they reign it in a little bit and you can tell Colin has the potential to be a great Doctor. Other than that though, this is pretty terrible.

[@BulbasaurRepresent]

I must say, I really like the character of an egotistical prick who is in reality a coward, and Colin Baker plays that brilliantly. The issue, of course, is that its the Doctor.

[@BernardJKD]

You don't like Kinda !!! Like what!???

[@franohmsford7548]

The 7th Doctor's first story is far far worse than this! Time and the Rani is utterly abysmal! Sylvester McCoy came in as an utter clown, Colin Baker wasn't even allowed a regeneration scene, the story is a total mess....Basically everything that could go wrong did! It may not be as idiotic as say Kill the Moon but it's not far off and the production of Nu-Who is of course drastically superior even if the stories aren't.

[@kierenevans2521]

Part one is so terrible, particularly for *that* scene. It vaguely gets better in the final two parts but not really. Less offensively bad? Just skippable. 20:10 This serial had figures of 7.6, 7.4, 7.0 and 6.3 million but that was mid week. Androzani had figures of 6.9, 6.6, 7.8 and 7.8. Season 22 is back to Saturdays and the opening story had figures of 8.9 and 7.2 million (45 min eps for season 22). Season 22 as a whole is in the 6 or 7 millions, but as I say it's on Saturday rather than mid-week which seasons 19-21 have been.

[@joshuajoshua2732]

I have to say first off I violently disagree with your opinions about "The Celestial Toymaker" "The Power of the Daleks" "Robot" and "Warriors' Gate" being bad stories I will defend those stories atleast they had stories and it was done magnificently sure the budget wasn't great but it does not matter it's "Doctor Who" I don't mind the bad effects and low key stories as for the canon again does not matter the show never had proper canon to begin with anyway all this canon stuff is fanfiction I'm sorry but you guys are wrong on those occasions but aside from that you are right about most other things but those particular stories no I totally disagree. However that being said this was the worst story and the worst time to introduce a new Doctor at the end of the season however I don't think it's as bad as people make it out to be it was what it was I suppose you can laugh at it but that's all you can do because this story is hard to take seriously and hard to follow the plot.

[@MrJ.Smith1234]

I love how you just cut out most of part three, that was funny to me 😆. But yeah the Twin Dilemma is a very pointless story but l still think there are a lot more worse story's. I do think Colin Baker is underrated as the doctor as l think the era that surrounds him was very toxic.

[@davidziegler494]

I've never managed to make it through this story and I like the sixth Doctor. Just terrible.

[@flaggerify]

Regeneration seems to be an excuse for anything awful in Doctor Who.

[@johnthewiz]

My stomach turned seeing this back then. That costume tipped the ballance for me. And I hope you dont take this the wrong way but JNT seemed to be trying to appeal to the American audience here with the rather tasteless clashing costume and brash personality. The show was taking off over there at this time so....but it was all just so badly excecuted too.

[@andygozzo72]

this is thought of as one of the worst, if not THE worst story overall of the original series...

[@dmorgs07]

My least favourite era - but none of it is down to Colin.

[@joshuaverran9443]

I'm sorry you guys didn't like it but i thought this story was 10 times times better and far superior than those recent crappy Disney specials that we got that was cringe.