90 Day Fiancé - (Mike & Natalie #12) - Walls - Therapist Reacts

Dr. Kirk Honda, couples therapist, reacts to 90 Day Fiancé - Mike and Natalie. Includes clips from 90 Day Fiancé (TLC) season 7.
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[@eurosis]

Even though Natalie has a lot of issues, I think she exhibits more self-awareness and willingness to own up to her shit than any other person we've seen on this show.

[@lavinder11]

Rebecca takes the cake for me and then Michael's ex-wife Sarah (the guy in Connecticut).

[@LizWilliamsWildflowerLiz]

It’s hard (for me) to see someone like her in these situations because she is trying so hard and doing all the right things and Mike is like unreachable.

[@lavinder11]

@@LizWilliamsWildflowerLiz You think she's doing all the right things? He seemed present until she started pushing the conversion, the baby, criticizing his weight and consumption habits. The "I don't love him" and throwing the ring in his bag were the icing on the cake.

[@naomikeenan951]

@@lavinder11 omg I realized which couple you were talking about! At first I thought you were talking about Love After Lockup, which might traumatize Dr. Honda.

[@LizWilliamsWildflowerLiz]

@@lavinder11 ok she’s not perfect either, but when she makes a mistake she owns up to it or at least tries. I just can’t get over how it seems like Mike isn’t trying at all.

[@h8a1c3]

In my family and lots of families i know, the emotions of small children are considered the child acting out and the goal is to make them knock it off, not addressing their feelings.

[@goosebump801]

That’s so sad! Especially when the kids are really young

[@fraandreambook]

Well that was my family and now it’s really hard for me to not be an avoidant person

[@kmonkey8874]

They would say, what's wrong? instead of asking me are you sad? are you tired? etc and i would always say i don't know. they didn't teach me my feelings. now some friends catchphrase me as 'idk'.

[@Griselda_Puppy]

Thats my #1 goal being a parent, to validate my kids feelings, and to guide them as to healthy ways to express those feelings! ❤

[@xoxoJGWS]

I see that around me too, i think it comes from the outdated notion that children are completely moldable by adults(also, back in the day emotions werent seen as something that you need to express. More as something you need to contain). The parents should 'keep them in line' etc, while more modern approach is, accepting the child to be a person(ality) of their own, and helping them express and communicate their emotions and personality in a healthy way.

[@drawmeariver]

Mike might have the issue of looking at everything as black and white. When she said that she didn't love him I bet that flipped everything for him. Now all their good times together: meaningless. All the conversations they've had: meaningless. He probably felt like he was an idiot, like "I'm here loving her and I thought she was loving me back but I guess I was wrong." I feel like seeing and sitting in the nuance of love is very difficult. In these scenes I just saw his whole world falling apart. So I think he's not responding because A)he's overloaded with negative emotion and B) Cant put together the words to describe how he feels so it feels better to not say anything at all

[@m.r.e.5731]

@Natalie Young, You are right. Many men are avoidant emotionally and will shrug instead of groveling for forgiveness. She, on the other hand, is a piece of work. She is an "I love you, go away" type who sends mixed messages. I'd be wary of her, too. And what's up with that "Your parents love you!" Gee, thanks, Natalie. That makes it aaaall better!

[@Taradays]

also can you imagine how much money he has spent on the K-1 visa process as well and then he finding out that she doesn't love him as much as he loves her

[@politicaltroll8920]

There’s also the public nature of the show, and the stigma in the US that comes with international dating for people i. both Mike and Natalie positions as well. He was probably deeply embarrassed.

[@LakiniR9]

@@m.r.e.5731 Yes... And the "Look how handsome you are..." line was so cringeworthy too. I'm baffled that Dr. Kirk doesn't see that behaviour as being obviously patronizing and not a genuine effort to comfort him.

[@m.r.e.5731]

@@LakiniR9 Yes, I don't see why Dr. Dr. Honda doesn't validate this viewpoint more vigorously.

[@saramutina]

Maybe I relate more to Mike, but for me her attempts to cheer him up look like she’s completely unaware that SHE is the cause of his broken heart and just treats him as if he’s “just upset for some unknown reason” and like it’s not a big deal. It probably makes the whole situation even more difficult and confusing for him. My mom (we are Russian by the way, don’t know if it’s a cultural thing) used to behave like Natalie and it drove me crazy. She could throw my stuff (books, journals, toys, gadgets) away because she thought my room was “untidy”, didn’t want to communicate and explain anything to me at first when I was crying and begged her to talk to me, and later when I was deeply sad (+ put on that “blank face”) and didn’t want to talk to her she was behaving just like Natalie in the car like “Don’t be upset, you’re a beautiful girl, everything will be fine, let’s go have some tea and your favorite snacks? What? Why you don’t want to? Don’t cry, life doesn’t end here”... And it was the worst... Thankfully I haven’t had situations like that for a long time, I’ve been through some therapy and now in conflicts I talk and explain my feelings quite well, but seeing people behave like Natalie still triggers me...

[@bashmeesh]

I've been wondering if there is a large cultural difference between how they communicate. Some of the things she says seems harsh to me but I think she is saying the things that would help her out if that makes sense.

[@m.r.e.5731]

I don't see how anyone can be pro Natalie when she is so manipulative.

[@elizabrosnan]

It seems like in a lot of cultures because the people have seen maybe wars or rougher patches in their history that they just act very detached and cold when it comes to situations that they deem as "not as important " I’m saying this has an Haitian having Haitian parents/upbringing they would always just tell me wait until you have kids or bills then you’ll actually have a reason to cry whenever I was upset it’s like to them having emotions didn’t make sense if it wasn’t like the actual end of the world but they don’t understand how that affects the way you emote later in life and suppress a lot of feelings etc

[@worldventurewithanna5904]

Im Ukrainian and my mom does the same thing!! Act like it was no big deal, why are you getting so upset about this, and treat you like a grumpy child that didnt get the candy you wanted or something.

[@LakiniR9]

I totally agree. And her 'comforting' behaviour in the car really did sound like she was talking to a child. That experience sounds very frustrating! What confuses me is that Dr. Kirk didn't see Natalie's behaviour as particularly problematic...

[@Reghi29]

It is very interesting seeing in the comments how people choose sides and see things very differently! I guess we do relate to one character more than the other and that's what Dr. Kirk's comments are so important!

[@legzfalloffgirl5148]

That's very true actually. Like we align with the one most like us in the situation.😌😌 Guess that's what makes these videos so educational and corrective.

[@michaelsotomayor5001]

In my opinion.. this behavior we are witnessing is bound to take place forever in every relationship.. it's really the only way to become more "experienced".. people must learn from these aggravating situations to become better.. so in future relations they know what they did wrong and how to avoid certain pitfalls. No one is just perfect or mature from the get go.. (it is rare to see that) The problem being people don't see that optimistic point of view.. people want to attach themselves (learned from buddhism to avoid that) and overly commit into situations that are of no benefit to either person. So there is no need to take or choose sides.. just hope and pray they become more wise from this experience. What makes me cringe is that they (especially Mike) are not enjoying it. Not everything is supposed to go the way we want things to go.

[@jessgillis4103]

For sure! I become a judgy ogre when I watch this show, and these videos have really helped me curb that - or at least see things in a different light.

[@offline._archive]

i don't understand why people dislike natalie.. i find her honest, open, and self-reflective. I think she doesn't know how to communicate with him because it's like trying to guess what to say to him because there's very little hint coming from him. When she says "your mother loves you.....", i think she tried to make him smile. Some people dislike that fact that she's 'complaining', maybe that's how she communicates something that she doesn't like and she wants to be upfront about it. I'm not saying it's a good way to communicate but for me, it's better to be honest than to pretend to like everything. If she lives in the city, i can see that his living situation can be quite a big adjustment.

[@LakiniR9]

Interesting... I see Mike as being much more straightforward, open, honest and reasonable than Natalie. Not enough time to type out all the reasons, but there are lots of examples.

[@natalia4292]

She is putting in a ton of effort to bridge the gap she herself created. What a noble thing to do! If I spit in someone's face and expect them to apologize to ME, should I be surprised to find them not particularly enthusiastic about doing it?

[@jessgillis4103]

LOL right?

[@karolinadornak6887]

And I hate that he’s looked at as the bad guy. She literally threw away her ring after she couldn’t say that she loves him after immediately wanting a baby ... I am so confused

[@christinefaulk6531]

Thank you! It's so unsettling.... Yell at me. Tell me you don't love me. Throw my mother's engagement ring I gave you. Then immediately after, smile, touch all on me and try to make ME apologize for everything - all while we are confined to the back seat of an uber. This can't be real life. Lol

[@baybeetricia]

Perfect analogy

[@stormz1215]

My issue (and his) is she's saying who loves him that isn't her. Basically "don't be upset I don't love you! These people do."

[@sarabobara8458]

I thought that as well, but I do think its important to consider that what we are seeing is being editted, there was a jump cut RIGHT before and right after she said that comment, meaning we dont know what was said before or after that in real life.

[@baybeetricia]

You are right. It's basically "it doesn't matter if I don't love you. Your mom does and say does your dad and your dog" 🙄

[@pamelac3940]

I wouldn't be so quick to assume her intended meaning is "don't be upset I don't love you" English is not her first language, which makes it very possible for us to misunderstand what she's trying to say. And we don't know cultural norms about expressing love in her country. She could be trying to express something like "love is something you have for those you know really well for a long time like your family, not someone you just met"

[@myrn96]

Just to re-emphasise, the attachment deep dive is fucking amazing - if you had to pick an ep, watch episode 2 as it has a good overview and is only a couple hours

[@myrn96]

but the entire thing is extremely useful

[@m.r.e.5731]

Episode 2 of ???

[@myrn96]

@@m.r.e.5731 of the attachment deep dives - I think there's 6 or 7 episodes - It's a patreon exclusive though

[@aralyz1216]

How do I get to this ? I really want to listen

[@myrn96]

@@aralyz1216 if you go onto the pyschology in Seattles pateron page, then type in attachment deep dive into the search bar and scroll down, you get all the episodes

[@kairu5607]

I didn’t see Mike’s “beam of light” when Natalie smiled at him in the car. I saw, “you say you don’t love me and throw the ring in my bag and now you want to act like everything is ok?” Total speculation

[@bixler3463]

Exactly .. fight can’t be resolved so easily

[@francesfehrman741]

This car scene is creepy... don't touch me.... silence treatment is for her.....go away. Her moods change again.

[@Jinxi928]

I cringed so much when she said that his mother and dad love him.

[@m.r.e.5731]

Yes it was horrible for her to say his parents love him, like it is some kind of consolation prize. Just terrible! I lost any fan affection for her at that moment.

[@mariyajoldzic4293]

I agree. When you are hurt that your fiancee says she doesn't love you, and her response is "but your mom and your dog loves you," that's so condescending. I don't think her tone was playful. I think it was invalidating.

[@stefanie0158]

@@mariyajoldzic4293 lol I kinda agree with her😂 , she didn't lie and said what she actually felt , whenever she tries to make up he ruins it

[@kmonkey8874]

i think she was pretty desperate to make him feel better.

[@oliae2898]

Yea it was really degrading.

[@anne.enrique]

Signed up for therapy! Just waiting for match. Thank you Dr H bc I deserve it!!

[@acd1168]

Natalie pokes a bear and then pretends like she doesn’t know what she did wrong. It is so mean

[@MsAmos97]

This behavior is often overlooked on this channel

[@acd1168]

@@MsAmos97 It’s ridiculous and I wouldn’t stand for it. She purposely tries to get him to blow up. You can tell

[@LizWilliamsWildflowerLiz]

How can he say she is being childish when he is literally sitting there pouting in silence?!?

[@daniellechikavanga2067]

My thoughts exactly

[@sacmakiz]

100% !!

[@baybeetricia]

He has completely shut down and her lack of awareness for the fact that it's her fault is why he is acting that way

[@baybeetricia]

Natalie was trying to pacify him without actually realizing and verbalizing that she did something wrong in the first place. It's annoying and, as he said, childish. She doesn't like it when she's wrong so she has moments where she tries to make the person feel better without actually saying "I apologize". No! Assess the situation, ask them what you did wrong, care about what they said, and then realize your mistakes. Don't just jump and say "can we stop this farce" or "do you forgive me?" or "in my perfect world you would apologize to me." It's annoying.

[@MsAmos97]

She skirted every important step of a proper apology, choosing to bombard him with affirmations instead. I'd be annoyed too

[@sabrinashelton1997]

What did she do wrong? You can't help if you aren't in love with someone. That's not wrong. I find her honestly refreshing. I get that it hurts, but it is what it is.

[@baybeetricia]

@@sabrinashelton1997 I could understand if she had not said it to him before but she did; numerous times. The fact that she could not say it, simply because they have been having fights, shows that her love (the feeling and her ability to say it) is conditional and dependent on the ease of their relationship (which it should not be).

[@sabrinashelton1997]

@@baybeetricia all love is conditional, I dont care what anyone says. I do understand his hurt, though.

[@baybeetricia]

@@sabrinashelton1997 👌🏾

[@LLisa180]

Did anyone else notice what Natalie said in the cab? It bothered me when Natalie basically shamed Mike for being emotional in the cab. “Oh it’s because you’re younger that you’re like this. I should’ve picked an older guy”. WTF?!? First off, how does that have anything to do with age? That’s extremely condescending. Secondly, Now she can forget him ever being vulnerable in front of her because he just won’t feel safe. 😡 She then started patronizing him (mike said childish)...Mike has issues but wow, that would’ve triggered me big time and it clearly has lol

[@MsAmos97]

I was disappointed Dr. Kirk didn't address this

[@MissPixil]

I honestly thought I was missing something because it rubbed me the wrong way as well. I haven’t watched the show because I don’t have time when it’s on TV and can’t afford it online so, I didn’t know if it was missing context or I was misunderstanding, idk.

[@YesJellyfish]

Well he's ignoring her, that's not really vulnerable and kinda childish, no?

[@Mel-S.99]

My thoughts when i saw how Mike was acting was that I do something similar. When my kids have to leave to go to their dad's, i get super anxious and pick fights with my boyfriend over the dumbest things just so that i can be mad instead of sad. We've talked about this and i make an effort to keep tuned in to my feelings. When I'm having an especially hard time, my boyfriend will give me extra love and try to help me relax like what Natalia was doing. I wonder if Mike is so upset about having to leave, he's picking fights to make her mad at him so it makes it easier.

[@lavinder11]

Big Mike is hurt. I would be too if I were in his shoes. She said "I love you" when things were going her way, then snatched it back because he didn't want to have a baby fast or convert religion/meat-eating habits. I actually like Natalie though. She seems manipulative and high maintenance, but still endearing. I can see why he was attracted to her personality in the first place.

[@stellannie86]

Did she actually say "i love you" before?

[@lavinder11]

@@stellannie86 He said so.

[@stellannie86]

@@lavinder11 Oh. Damn. :/ In that case it's more understandable for him to be so upset.

[@michaelsotomayor5001]

@@stellannie86 "i love you" before and no "i love you" after.. it's just a saying that for me means absolutely nothing.. look at how the person acts.. the way they hold your hand.. they way they speak to you.. the way they are attentive to you when you speak.. do they call you? do they bring you medicine when you're sick? Do they look into your eyes and try to find your soul? Actions mean everything.. and if you don't like how the person acts then leave. Simple. Stop the drama.

[@stellannie86]

@@michaelsotomayor5001 Well, like i've said in a previous comment of mine: Showing commitment should be more important than semantics.

[@mml0082]

“Your mom love you, your dog loves you” except she’s not saying I love you so that must hurt

[@m.r.e.5731]

Exactly. That's horrible.

[@Laureena7]

I was thinking the same thing. That would feel so hurtful

[@francesfehrman741]

Barf, creepy. How can he accept this....weird....

[@thisispearl]

My husband is similar to Mike so this is so helpful to see. I will inadvertently say things that hurt him and he will be extremely triggered and completely shut down. I am feeing reassured watching this that I’m not crazy for wanting some vulnerability back once I am calm enough to apologize. Nowadays I just say what I need to and give him space because he needs some time to let those feelings subside. Thanks as always Dr. Kirk!

[@Mrs.Lessard]

“Your Mom loves you.” “Your Dad loves you.” “Everyone loves you.” (Except me) “Also, I knew I should have dated someone older, and less emotional than you.” *said with a smile Totally passive aggressive IMO.

[@jane347]

Yes I found that some what cringey to watch and maybe he was shut down but I understand him not responding to this..it was like she was consoling her child but knew she caused the eruption

[@m.r.e.5731]

Yes, I don't see how anyone can say anything other then it is deeply hurtful to Mike. I think she is horrible.

[@m.r.e.5731]

@@bashmeesh The thing is, she is the reason he is shut down. She totally insults him by childishly throwing the ring and calling him immature, mock-placates him (basically throwing one tactic after another at him to see what sticks) and he is supposed to just forget everything and kiss and make up?

[@lindarobish7775]

SHE BROKE HIS HEART!!! She didn’t say she loved him and she threw the ring. She’s just oblivious. Completely clueless.

[@lindarobish7775]

Dr. Honda, you’re coming off as completely clueless too. You keep praising Natalie, but she doesn’t deserve it. She has this whole little script in her head that’s just out of touch with reality. I don’t think he’s angry, he’s in so much pain. She rejected him right as he’s leaving, and she doesn’t see how much she hurt him. All those platitudes show that she isn’t understanding his pain or taking it seriously and thinks he should just snap out of it. I don’t think he’s able to hear anything she’s saying to him right now. And her insistence that he apologize when she’s the one that should be apologizing! She’s the one who should be begging for forgiveness.

[@unefillesrb]

Dear Linda I partially agree with you but why don't you expect Mike to show her that he cares and loves her? She apparently doesn't feel appreciated as well or she would not have thrown the ring "to get a reaction", for him to engage with her. Both of them struggle to properly communicate their attachment, love, feeling for each other. Hus shut-down is not helping either. If she doesn't feel loved, it must be tough to show love as it might feel too risky.

[@francesfehrman741]

To late at the airport.

[@angelkaterose]

I get the impression that she holds onto her resistance and difficultness with him until the very last possible moment when she is afraid that she will lose him, and only then does she open up a bit and try to communicate better and reach out to him. I understand why he seems exhausted and hurt when this happens, rather than predominantly relieved. Obviously it takes two to create a dynamic so I am not saying that it's all down to only one of them, but this is just one thing that I notice.

[@jane347]

Like a cat toying with a mouse

[@angelkaterose]

@@jane347 Yes, I guess that it does end up being that way, doesn't it.

[@tardigrade312]

Maybe it's because I've seen the end of the season and that's filtering my view. Natalie went way above and beyond. Also they may have dated for a year or two but they haven't been in the same space for that long. Her not wanting to say "I love you" after such a rough visit makes sense. She has been trying to express her feelings but Mike kept shutting her down. Did the ride to the airport work? No, but they are two imperfect people. Not every attempt will be perfect to connect but she keeps reaching out and he keeps pushing her away. I don't know, love is something built and they are on shaky ground. I commend her for not lying about what's in her heart and head just to make him happy.

[@dawnecarter4878]

Kirk... YOU have changed my life! Your way of talking, teaching, and your kindness is unique to YOU only!!! You are an amazing human! 😊 💚💚💚

[@LakiniR9]

Yikes. I'm pretty dumbfounded at this point. I think there is a blindspot exhibited here towards Natalie, giving her way too much credit, and overly critiquing Mikes behaviour. I was pausing, cringing and putting my head in my hands throughout this whole video tbh. Even if Natalie's smile at the beginning is genuine and not sardonic, it doesn't erase the hurtful things she has just said and done. So you don't see her behaviour after that as exaggerated, patronizing or mocking? What you see as a lot of effort I see as her venting her frustration, lack of respect and possibly some contempt. If the patronizing and infantilizing tone and words weren't enough, she attributes his behaviour to being too young and immature, and takes no responsibility herself, at least at the time. I think Mike handled that situation pretty darn well all things considered. Maybe one gets a different perspective if watching the scenes in a less chopped-up way...? Watching this scene on tv with her crowding him and going on in an exaggerated, patronizing way while he is still very hurt, I was gobsmacked.

[@jeaniemccormick9797]

Good comment!

[@MsAmos97]

This wouldn't be the first time Dr. Kirk has missed the mark on his assessment of a couple.

[@LakiniR9]

@@MsAmos97 I guess so...? Honestly I've never disagreed with him so much on so many points before. And he often adds more 'hypotheses' or other perspectives in subsequent videos. I guess there's still time for him to do that! It makes me wonder if there's something about the way Natalie presents herself that makes people overlook certain behaviour that would be seen as problematic in other people. That did happen with Colt to a lesser extent...

[@MsAmos97]

@@LakiniR9 Natalie may display some red flag behavior, but Coltee and Mother Debbie were f%cking tornado sirens

[@LakiniR9]

@@MsAmos97 To be clear, not saying they are the same... But they may have a certain lack of sincerity and manipulativeness in common (to an extent). Also, I think a lot of the bad behaviour of Colt and Debbie was fairly subtle at first or happened off-camera. Anyway, sorry to go on about this... It just seems like not that many people are picking up on questionable things about Natalie. I liked her at first, super charming person, but some of her behaviour is yikes! to me.

[@lifeofsadie7572]

Dr Honda’s mike impersonations have me dead 😂

[@birdytvcertified]

Hello 👋🏽 deserving listeners, good to be here again. Hi Dr. Kirk

[@pambrown6319]

He is HURT !!! she gave/ threw the engagement back to him. HE IS HURT !!!

[@Laura-sn7mh]

This all Hit home with me. Someone I’m engaged too won’t say they love me on camera and tossed ring at me. I’m pretty much done snd shut down too

[@bixler3463]

I took it as just like a regular fight. When I heard about the incident online I thought it was this big wow huge fight but to me I don’t think it should be taken so seriously. It’s not a nice thing to do granted but he’s just using this as a way out in my opinion. It shows to me that the ring means something not just something she’s wearing. I know it’s ridiculous but she’s a dramatic lady and I kind of am starting to respect that.

[@HazNothin2Do]

The entire time i’ve been watching these videos I’ve connected so much to the description of avoidant attachment, but there was never any abuse or blatant neglect or anything like that in my family, so having Dr. Kirk talk about how that subtle mismatch or distracted parents can also lead to avoidant attachment was so affirming to hear.

[@badbadleroybrown]

Same. I see myself as having a charmed childhood, but definitely relate to all the videos dissecting avoidant behaviours. So now I'm thinking 🤔 hmmm my mum also has avoidant behaviours, if ever I disappointed her she would more likely give me silent treatment than shout at me. Plus she worked a lot. My parents divorced when I was 6. All these little factors that I never felt important maybe they are.

[@MsAmos97]

Wouldn't it be preferred (ie. healthier) for her to validate his experience rather than providing a barrage of positive affirmations on the car ride to the airport? I believe this is a tool also at her disposal

[@Jasmin-cr9ou]

Again, I have a really different perspective on this. I agree that Mike's behavior is not a good reaction and not helpful at all to the situation. He should really open up some form of communication about what he's feeling. But...I don't see Natalie as helping that much either in this moment. If I were to put myself in Mike's shoes, I would also be annoyed with Natalie's lighthearted behavior. Five minutes ago she threw her engagement ring! Now she's all over him telling him how handsome, amazing, wonderful he is? It comes across as insincere and, as Mike put it near the end, not serious. I think it depends on the person, but if I'm really hurt and in a situation where I feel like my entire relationship is falling apart, the last thing I want to see is my partner running up with a big smile and joking about how I'm just mad because I'm young.

[@h0a4l]

@Sam Antha that would be a good thing to communicate to your partner. Mike didn't express any of this

[@sarabobara8458]

​@Sam Antha Exactly and she literally said that she gave him the ring back to try to get him to do something.... to engage... she is TRYING she tried acting like she didnt care and he was upset, so now shes trying to shower him with affection and show him she cares and he is still giving her the cold shoulder.. thats not cool.

[@Dreabz617]

It’s interesting to see everyone’s perspective on this! But imo how can you act surprised or like you don’t understand why your fiancé is upset when you just told him you didn’t know if you loved him? They’re planning on having kids, getting married, moving in together, and somehow Natalie doesn’t understand why he’s upset over her not saying she loves him and then throwing the ring at him? Then she acts like it was no big deal. I would be extremely hurt that my partner felt like he could play with my feelings this way and wasn’t taking me seriously.

[@sweetsighs4u]

I think he was emotionally spent. Hard to turn on happiness when you've been demanded, blackmailed and got your heart stomped on. A smile doesn't fix it.

[@shodowhawk]

@@sarabobara8458 I think what they are getting at is her "showering" seems really condescending and insulting to me. Almost like shes coddling a baby. She basically says while he's crying "I knew you'd be like this bc you're young, my fault for choosing you and not an older man haha" "oh honey do you have a booboo now its okayyyyy my handsome boy" she actually calls him boy. If I were him id be doublely pissed off after that car ride and be more sure than ever about leaving.

[@pamelac3940]

When I first watched their season I saw Natalie as unreasonable and really hot/cold. I really appreciate your analysis, and helping me see things in a totally different way

[@Toyon95]

Yeah same here

[@lenkaklinderova6958]

This reminds me a lot of that similar airport situation with Geoffrey and Varya. When Varya said she's not ready to get married at the moment, and he felt like this is the end of everything and just wanted to fly away and forget everything about her.

[@catherineparis8678]

Nonchalant and sassy teenager Kirk are my fav

[@es9947]

Natalie says that his mom and dad love Mike. She has never met them. She says that everyone loves him--except for her. She still couldn't say she loves him but wants him to impregnate her and marry her. Wow.

[@macarena778]

Let's be honest, it's pretty hard to come back when the ring, with a sentimental meaning inherited from your grandma, you gave to someone and that person tossed it at your suitcase as if it were worth nothing. I would be f**king hurt and doubt everything I've tried to build with that person. My heart would sink to the rock bottom and feel cold as f***k! It would sting for years to come! This guy had really tried to treat her with respect, care, open-mindedness, patience and a gentle heart, but she was just all about herself the whole time. I wouldn't blame him for being this cold, since his engagement ring was tossed away like just 1-2 days prior?!

[@annap.8709]

Absolutely

[@sacredsiren]

Honestly, after the way she behaved I don't blame him for shutting down with her antics in the car... she said she didn't love him, then took of the ring he gave her and threw it in his bag... I wouldn't want that person then hanging all over me and being silly and trying to make light of it... to me he seems more just defeated

[@queenoblivia]

I really feel for Mike here. His behavior resonates a lot with me and my own reactions to situations in the past and I almost feel like I'm in this situation just watching it. I may be way off base and I may just be looking at it from my own point of view and pretending that it's Mike's but I feel like in this situation he's not getting his needs met and it's worse because he's getting a terrible and unsatisfying version of his needs that he has to choose to accept or not. It's like asking for a car and getting a picture of a car. She's not acknowledging why he feels hurt (that's not her fault because I think she truly doesn't understand why he feels so hurt but it is her fault that she's not asking). He seems willing to put up with anything and work through all of their problems and try to build something together and probably thinks "as long as we love each other, as long as we're a team, we can do this." Then, out of nowhere, she kicks away the foundation of the relationship and any sense of security that he had by sitting next to him and telling strangers and the entire world that the answer to the question, "do you love him?" is, essentially, "eh. Maybe someday." I think he really believed that she loved him and to fully believe something like that is a matter of enormous trust and optimism - trust in the other person, in yourself and your ability to recognize love, in your ability to deserve love, in the fairness of the universe to allow love to those who want it, trust in the simple idea that life will allow you happiness if you ask for it. To feel that you've been wrong about something like that feels like you're wrong about all of it, that maybe you've been wrong the whole time, and maybe everyone who's been watching you isn't watching a love story but someone completely fooling himself and becoming a public joke. I think that moment was humiliating and completely devastating and his reaction was the best that he could do. He probably wanted to scream and cry and express how devastated he was and how violated his trust was but he probably thought the highest road he could take was to gather his last shreds of dignity and leave. I'd have done the same. Now she's come to him, which I imagine he's equal parts happy and unhappy about, but instead of telling him that his feelings are valid and she understands now what her words meant to him in a way that she didn't before, now she's completely negating his feelings by being condescending. She's saying that this is what she gets for dating a younger man, essentially saying that he's acting like a baby and now she has to mother him so he'll stop crying and acting up. Her sing-song voice and the complete lack of sincerity in what she's saying is likely making him feel worse. It's the closest thing to comfort he's going to get from her so he has to choose whether to take what he gets and just deal with it and bury the hurt deeper or else start a new fight that could potentially end the relationship for good. This feels so familiar to me that I feel like I'm watching myself from outside my body and I feel so terrible for him. It's also worth noting that when someone has just said something that you've interpreted as "I don't love you", hearing them list other people that do just sounds like a sad consolation prize. "Buck up, kid. At least your mom likes you." I feel like Mike has a lot of levels of hurt in this situation and leaving isn't just about giving up or running away or using his absence/withdrawal as a weapon. I think he just won't be able to talk about these feelings while it's all swirling around him. I think he doesn't even fully know all the levels of what he's feeling and he won't be able to describe them or talk about them until he's had some space to think and sort it all out. But I definitely think that the two of them leaving together isn't the win it looks like. I think in his mind he's resigning himself to accepting less than the love he wants, maybe even accepting that he doesn't deserve the love that he wants, and he's going to do it to keep from losing everything but his flat demeanor isn't him trying not to be vulnerable, it's him dying a little inside.

[@queenoblivia]

I feel it necessary to add that I think Natalie is a good person and I think she does care for him. I think she's doing her best, the same as he is, and I think it's not her fault that she can't read his mind in this moment and they haven't known each other long enough for her to really understand him and predict how he might feel about or react to certain situations. She doesn't know what triggers she's tripping or what to do about them so she's trying to be comforting in a sort of default style and hoping for the best. My hope is that when the emotions are less raw they can talk about this and he can understand her thought process and why she answered the way she did and she can understand how her words were interpreted and how they made him feel, as well as what he needs as far as care in a situation like that. I think this is a couple that can last but they'll have a lot of work to do to get to a place of deeper understanding and there will probably be a lot of fights and hurt on the way to it. But I hope they get there. I wish them both well.

[@AppreciativeViewer]

She's saying / doing a lot to try and diffuse the situation, but without explicitly addressing the problem. He wants the problem to be explicitly addressed, not danced around in a way that tries to minimize it, but he's also not telling her anything or doing anything to get that ball rolling. It's just a terrible stalemate to be in.

[@basicb1381]

I'm gonna put one thing out there: i am a very religious person, had a long term relationship with an atheist. The way Natalie feels people are immoral without religion guiding them or that they less than, it rubs me the wrong way. You don't respect the guy, his life choices, what he eats or whatever, why are you even marrying him? I definitely think she doesn't have a lot of empathy, is arrogant and probably wanna marry Mike cause hes American and she thinks thats the best she can have .

[@jane347]

Maybe she has limited choices in her culture due to her age, I agree I feel she would be suited to somebody whom challenges her more

[@rhondajohnson8310]

The look on Dr. Honda's face around 16:33 is priceless.. lol!! I feel like she was trying to connect with him in the car but it seemed to me that she was being insulting. I would have acted the same way towards her.

[@francesfehrman741]

Shut up, get out of car. Don't touch me. She's weird, where did she get this language? Don't talk like this, creepy.

[@spacecat7125]

I don’t like that he made her feel bad about being honest with her feelings towards him. If she isn’t in love , she isn’t in love. She shouldn’t apologize for how she feels.

[@pituk08]

Natalie throwing the ring is one level of hurt but to me when she said that was his mother ring wow that hurt me and it’s not even my mom. 🤷🏽‍♀️

[@pamelac3940]

I think what she was meaning to say is that if they're not together she would want him to have the ring back since it's his mother's (and sentimental)

[@pituk08]

@@pamelac3940 Yeah, I get that. I guess for me they were both agitated and at that moment to chose to say this is your mom ring is a painful reminder given that she just threw it.

[@puetwa]

I'm eastern Europe and my bf is from the west. My bf has a beautiful family, very loving one. I'm from the "broken" one. After 8years of being together, he's reaction to me saying "I choose to be with you, I choose to love you" was how Mike reacted. And I could not understand why he feels that our relationship was threatend. Thanks to this episode I understand it a bit more. Thanks Dr Honda! :)

[@kasimmorathi]

I also share a few attachment issues as Mike, and I can empathize with him to a degree. When I am hurt, my reaction is to hide my emotions and act cold. In these situations I look for a more direct and serious apology. She was trying but I would want something like: "I see what I did hurt you and I am genuinely sorry. Here is why I did what I did". Any attempt at lightheartedness or deflections only makes me angrier and colder. She was also smothering him with physical affection and this is often too much for me when I get in this state. It feels like I'm being attacked more than I'm being comforted, versus something simpler and more meaningful like a good solid hug. I get somewhat frustrated at the people in comments saying he is pouting, as this is the closest that people like he and I will get to actually crying. I might be projecting too much on him, but I only see someone who is badly hurt (on national TV) and instinctually pulling away from the pain which includes pushing away the person who "caused" it.

[@noahmatthew6658]

I got more from Kirk Honda than I did my crappy therapist

[@goosebump801]

Time to look for a therapist who connects with you better 🤷‍♀️

[@ms-corleone]

Yes Enforcer, time to shop around for a new therapist! 😉

[@ms5717]

I'd be in the same mood if I were Mike and would even get irritated to what she is doing to Mike in the car.

[@francesfehrman741]

She acts like nothing happened. Idiot. You hurt him deeply 💔😢. Hate her words. She doesn't know! What's wrong with her!?!?!?!?

[@Michelle-rv9ks]

A lot of us I think had a poor interpretation of what was going on here. Dr. Kirk has helped us once again by going through it slowly

[@WoahNelli]

Thanks for reacting to this video Kirk Honda! My boyfriend and I love to watch these reactions together 🥰

[@amandadupre7698]

I am just like Mike (avoidant with the tendency to withdraw into punishing silence). He is hurt and upset, and she is trying to change the subject by flattery and being cutesy. For me, that is like lemon juice in a cut that not only do you not care that the thing you said upset me, but you want to just move on without talking about it and are trying to make me feel silly about having feelings. This is how my family dealt with conflict growing up and it does not feel good. Fakeness, game playing ("in my perfect world..." monologue), or levity in response to me being upset makes every thing worse. I think if she had matched his seriousness with seriousness it would make him feel heard and he would draw closer. It's not a fair reaction, and I'm working on no longer doing it, but it's a hard pattern to break.

[@YesJellyfish]

Well she did try to talk about it in like 5 other ways and he was sarcastic and ignoring her. I guess she got a bit desperate in the end. If this is plan A for your family, it makes total sense you wouldn't want to validate that. But if someone tries a bunch of other things first, I think they deserve some kind of acknowledgement. Maybe at least something like "that really hurt me and I need some time to think". I would really freak out if I spoke out about having doubts in my relationship and my partner just ignored me, packed a bag and drove to the airport without a word, which seemed to me what his initial reaction was.

[@Zullala]

Honestly I will never be with a man who is this avoidant again. It's so difficult and requires so much energy to try and guess what the avoidant person wants. Plus I have a lot of anxiety so when someone is quietly suffering around me it'll trigger my anxiety to flair up. I'm working on it but for now I couldn't be with someone like Mike. I can understand why he shuts down... but it's also incredibly frustrating. He's acting like a dead fish who doesn't even want to try. He just sits there, let's Natalie do all the work and then criticizes her efforts. He's obviously reeling in pain but puts on a less than convincing mask which just makes him seem cold and insincere.

[@blue19401]

Man, it is hard to believe that Mike is not able to see how he shuts down and it's unwilling to show some vulnerability, but most of all: talk. Loved Dr. Honda's note: give conversation a chance!

[@dragisatrajkovic4962]

Mike is deflated...completely...

[@avonmalka]

He's literally aged from this experience.

[@m.r.e.5731]

This is like when Tanya told Syngin he was not her soulmate. Totally changed the tenor of the relationship.

[@avonmalka]

@@m.r.e.5731 oooh I haven't watched that much of those two. I'm gonna go back in the archives.

[@bixler3463]

@@m.r.e.5731 that I felt was sooo bad! To me Natalie didn’t mean for it to be cruel where as that situation was def intended to eff syngin up inside

[@jessgillis4103]

Oh man. I've identified myself as someone with pre-occupied attachment, but seeing Mike in this episode makes me see that I have some avoidant tendencies as well. If someone who previously said they loved me, someone on whom I'd spent so much time and money, later said they could grow to love me but didn't currently love me, I'd be hurt and angry. It makes sense for her to say that love will grow, but after she already told him she loved him so many times? To me it DOES look like she's playing games and acting like a child. She knows what the issue is, and while yes, it would be more productive if he shared his feelings, she's acting like HE did something wrong, when to me it looks like SHE started the conflict by saying she doesn't love him. For someone from our North American culture that is a BIG deal. Do you have a crush on Natalie or something lol? A lot of her behaviour seems really cold and cruel to me, but then she acts all cutesy and childlike and she gets a pass?

[@YesJellyfish]

I don't see what else she could've done without lying. If she doesn't feel love at the moment after all the fighting and he asks her straight up, should she just say how she feels in a nice way? It makes sense it hurt Mike, but there's no avoiding that.

[@gerafinali4384]

Manipulative. She is incredibly manipulative. How can you respond to someone like that, she will just gaslight him, which she is already doing by not acknowledging how hurtful she was and now making him feel that he's got a problem by being upset. Mike has probably been a victim of a manipulative person before, and knows Intrinsically that expressing yourself will only lead to more manipulation. He probably realises at that moment that staying in this relationship is bad news.

[@noahmatthew6658]

My therapist just seemed to want to push me on meds instead of helping me solve my deep issues. He wasn’t shit compared to dr Kirk Honda

[@searranolan1010]

You should seek out someone that doesn't have the ability to prescribe medication. I had the same problem for years until I found a counselor who could not prescribe medication. She eventually recommended EMDR therapy and now I do both. No talk of medication. I am very mentally ill and refuse all medications bc I believe they do more harm than good for me personally.

[@sarabobara8458]

A psychiatrist is a medical doctor, you go to them for medications, not for therapy. Where as the psychologist is the therapist. They are the ones that engage in talk therapy where as when you visit a psychiatrist, the questions being asked and discussion being had is the medical doctors way of diagnosing the problem, if the problem is that you are depressed, then they can prescribe medication and recommend you see a psychologist (therapist). We unfortunately use the words interchangeably but really they are different.

[@goosebump801]

Time to go shopping for a better therapist 💐

[@daringone657]

Noble effort?. Natalie was so annoying in the car!.

[@tamcar04]

She knew she messed up and was just sucking up to "fix it"

[@notthatjensen1470]

I mean at least she was trying to communicate with him. He was just completely stonewalling her.

[@daringone657]

@@notthatjensen1470 But it came across as if she was placating a child. No wonder he did not appreciate her behavior.

[@ks3086]

The reaction in the comments has me reflecting on how deeply culture plays in to our perceptions of these relationships. Many folks are taking umbrage with Dr. Honda’s analysis on the basis that Nathalie should intuitively know why Mike is upset, even though he makes no efforts to communicate his perspective or feelings and, crucially, what triggered these feelings. It is not at all obvious to me why, exactly, he’s upset. Is it about the repeated fights? Is it about the ring? Is it about the ‘love’ thing? If so, what exactly about Nathalie’s comments was upsetting to Mike? As many folks from Eastern Europe have commented on previous videos, the concept of 'love' has different and multiple cultural meanings in Ukraine, so it is pretty presumptuous to assume she should just KNOW that her comments were hurtful, since they may not have been so interpreted were Mike also of Ukrainian culture. He gives her no opportunity to address the source of his hurt, and this silent pouting to me reads like he’s trying to punish her for something, a thing that he stubbornly refuses even to fill her in on. His behavior is cruel, and having your feelings hurt is not an excuse to hurt other people-which is clearly what he’s doing to Nathalie. She is suffering. But many folks seem to be interpreting her earnest attempts to relieve that suffering by trying to be vulnerable, to take care of Mike, or at the very least to re-spark communication as her being uncaring, manipulative, intentionally obtuse, etc. At the same time, folks empathize with Mike, because it should be OBVIOUS to Nathalie why he is hurt, and how she should address that. Why is it Nathalie’s responsibility to be a mind-reader, and it’s okay for Mike to be a stonewalling jerk because he’s hurt? If he didn’t want her around on the ride to the airport, he could have asserted this, and told her that he needed some time away from her to make sense of his thoughts and feelings. But chose not to, and instead subjected her to an awkward, painful, punishing ride to the airport. The point is, I’ve been in this space with avoidant partners, and things are not as straightforward as I see many people assuming here in the comments. Her attempts to reach out to him, of which there are SO, SO MANY, are not indicative of her being flippant-they are a sign of pain and desperation to reconnect, but being provided no guidance or indication of how to make that happen. His “stoic” behavior is cruel and hurtful. Just because his pain is more visible, doesn’t make it more valid, or excuse the ongoing hurt he’s subjecting Nathalie to. In our (and many patriarchal) cultures, we interpret lack of action, especially in men, as strength and stoicism. This includes shutting down communication. We interpret communication and requests, especially in women during conflict situations, as neuroticism or neediness. The truth is, both of these people are hurting, and only one of them is trying to do what is necessary to address those hurts, even if her attempts are misguided. And they’re only misguided because he is giving absolutely no guidance. And I’d argue that it’s much stronger for her to make continuing attempts to reach out and be vulnerable, especially after his repeated refusals to recognize, much less return, that vulnerability.

[@videovamp_]

Agree with you whole heartedly !!

[@heatheranne5516]

+

[@meghank4042]

agree! I was a little dissapointed when I saw all of the comments siding with mike and bashing natalie. But then again...I guess it makes sense. From what I've seen in the U.S, most people handle their anger in the same way that Mike does and I think Dr. Honda said half of is viewers are from the U.S. Many people from the US also seem to be blind from the fact that love has many nuances and meanings in other cultures. We just assume our culture is THE culture.

[@Dreabz617]

I don’t think ppl are siding with mike because of societal norms or the patriarchy. Im female, not from this country, and dont see stoicism as and lack of action as attractive qualities in a man. Quite the opposite actually..but a lot of ppl in the comment section, like myself, have probably dated ppl like Natalie who seem to get a kick out of playing manipulative mind games with their partners and not acknowledging the damage they do. She constantly pushes Mike to change who he is and punished him when she doesn’t get her way by “not being able to say I love you” despite having said it many times before, and also giving him back the ring. There are many times during this season and the next when Mike tried to reach out to Natalie after an argument and if you watch the new season you’ll see how much she continues to criticize his personality (his diet, where he lives, what he does for fun) despite knowing him for years at that point. I think to those of us who have been on the receiving end of partners like Natalie, she seems really toxic, manipulative and careless with Mike’s feelings. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to know that telling your fiancé, who you’re literally planning to have babies with and move to another country with, you don’t know if you love him would really hurt his feelings. Just giving a different perspective

[@Beemmeupz]

@@Dreabz617 It seems like you guys are projecting onto Natalie unfairly cause chances are your partners weren’t speaking a foreign language and didn’t come from a completely different culture trying to communicate with you while you gave them nothing. If he wants someone who can read his mind he shouldn’t be dating someone who already has to deal with all those communication barriers.

[@samanthalee4205]

I don't think that her efforts to comfort him come off as very sincere; I think that is why he is not responding. She comes off as very patronizing.

[@LaurenAnne6]

I love your videos!! I've been in long term therapy for years, resolving trauma from childhood and an abusive relationship. Even with all of that work and amazing progress I've made, your videos are allowing me to see my Mother more deeply than I was. I got to the point where I could not continue the relationship unless she was actively working on her response to her hurt feelings. We had been in family counseling for a few months but I couldn't keep putting myself into situations with her where I was attacked. This happened last year towards the beginning of quarantine. She exhibits signs of narcissistic tendencies (her former therapists' words, not mine). She tends to, when she is hurt, which happens a lot because she perceives any negativity towards her (disappointed facial expressions, mild frustration body posturing, confusion about her thought process, etc) as a personal attack because of the abuse she received as a child and the 20 year unhealthy relationship she had with my father which reinforced those ideas. She is not currently able to allow herself to be vulnerable and express her hurt feelings. Her default is to attack the character of person who hurt her, which is the family dynamic on her side of the family. I feel for her and I understand where her response comes from, but I have to cover up so much of what I'm feeling and thinking to avoid hurting her feelings. It's impossible for me to feel safe around her and it's been like this for as long as I can remember and I am 35. Your exploration into the inner monologue of people who respond like her is giving me motivation to go back into family counseling and focus on how I can better be there for her in those moments. Maybe I am still taking on too much of the parental role, but I want to reach out to our family counselor to see if maybe this new understanding will help me work on any resentment that I didn't see before.

[@sarabobara8458]

She literally said that she gave him the ring back to try to get him to do something.... to engage... she is TRYING she tried acting like she didnt care and he was upset, so now shes trying to shower him with affection and show him she cares and he is still giving her the cold shoulder.. thats not cool.

[@angelkaterose]

It's interesting how they both feel unloved and rejected and are acting defensive, whilst both are secretly wanting the other to reach out to them and make them feel loved again. Yet neither is admitting this, and their hurt and spiteful retaliations only cause the other to feel further rejected and unloved and thus dig their heels in further. Both want the other to prove that they are loved. What a stressful and wounding cycle to be in.

[@elenap.3787]

I must say when you imitate their emotional response it's hilarious

[@welldonerae4052]

Most People really rather get lied to just to feel comfortable. She doesn’t love him and that doesn’t make her a bad person. She can learn to love him again but throwing sugar on the situation and painting it pink won’t change how she feels, it would only make him feel better. I feel really sorry for him but i am a huge fan of uncensored truth.

[@sacmakiz]

just wanna say: for natalies out there, i feel your pain honey. for mikes out there, i feel your pain too and i wish you could feel it yourself too rather than numbing with a beer or running away and blaming the other person for not being as your equal. be human, be messy, get therapy, heal your wounds and show up for yourself and for your partner if you really want happines, do-your-part. don't expect woman to 'not cause any trouble' to you or 'be your mother' because that's not what life or partnership is about. grow yourself up, heal your inner hurt child, dedicate yourself to become your fully functioning self every-single-day. your partner is there for you along the way. it's right there, if you can just look at it and own it. god damnit!

[@kmonkey8874]

he could at least ask her to stop? he is stonewalling... what exactly does he want her to do?

[@elladickson586]

Dr Kirk, *please* start reacting to *1000-Lb Sisters*, I'd be REALLY interested to hear your thoughts on that relationship and their history and struggles!

[@_Summer.]

I can see how people *wouldn’t* see her car behavior as “childish”, but that’s exactly how I take it when people act the same way and it aggravates me to no end. It’s the same as when a child does something wrong and then in an attempt to smooth things over decides to be overly cheerful, either to smooth things over or pretend that whatever incident happened never actually occurred. That’s fine for a kid, but for an adult? I can’t stand it.

[@genbluefun4124]

Therapy is so effective! Thank you Dr.Kirk♥️

[@naomikeenan951]

I agree that it was a childish effort. They are looking at the situation with two different perspectives. She doesn’t empathize with the amount of hurt he feels when she wouldn’t say “I love you”, and threw her engagement ring at him.

[@h0a4l]

If he communicated the amount of hurt he felt, it may have given her an opportunity to empathize on that

[@elizabethh5009]

At this point I just like your videos as soon as I click on them. No need to wait. I know they'll be gold. I'm currently studying Psychology as well as looking for my own therapist, having come to terms with the fact that - through watching these videos - I have a PLETHORA of problems 😂 and that a lot of the adults who raised me as well as others in my life, have tonnes of issues too. Not only am I learning so that I can help others, with your help I'm becoming a healthier, calmer, more patient person. So thank you.

[@daeneryslilac6147]

She is on a show 90 day fiance, accepted an engagement ring, planning to get to USA, wants to have babies right away and get married, okay ...then She knew he wasnt into religion or babies right now and couldnt convince him so now she isnt sure... See, if she doesnt believe in love being true with calls and chat and seeing each other 3 times then, why did she accept the engagement ring and plan a 90 day visa and marry? She has good sides to her but some things dont add up. Like, im missing a puzzle piece here.

[@angelkaterose]

In the car she seems to be invalidating and belittling him. :( First she told him not to feel what he felt, then she criticized him for being younger etc in a way that sounded passive aggressive to me, and then she said so-called comforting words to him in a way that sounded sarcastic and not heart felt. I wouldn't be surprised if he felt worse and concerned that even when they were on the verge of breaking up, that even then she would not give him the vulnerability and softness that is needed to reconnect and start healing their relationship. I wonder if she is this way with everyone, or if there are certain things in him that trigger this in her. Both are possible, of course.

[@catspajamas2961]

This scene and the fight before give me a mild borderline vibe.

[@helenah9192]

From why

[@helenah9192]

Who

[@catspajamas2961]

@@helenah9192 from Natalie.

[@alexdalton4535]

Yeah, Natalie's intense stare also seems quite borderline to me

[@turtlerampage9249]

When I watched this whole situation, I had the impression that she had previously said she loved him but was reconsidering it. I thought that's why he was so hurt. 🤷🏼‍♀️

[@FreeSpiritOpenSoul]

I love Dr. Kirk Honda :) I quit therapy and replaced it with his KZbin channel and now I am doing much better. Okay, maybe that was a bad joke :P I'm only kidding Dr. Honda! I am on the wait list for therapy now though and your channel was not only the reason why I registered, it has also helped me so much while I wait! :) Thanks.

[@klaudianapieraa4924]

She’s not feeling his mood though, she’s over it but he is not and to him it’s a big deal and a serious situation, in his eyes they just broke off the engagement 😅

[@Jinxi928]

Honestly, I don't find him so cold. She's so annoying to me though.

[@suelawson7273]

Surely jumping into the car with the man that you've flung a ring at and giving him a huge smile is a bit odd. Total speculation

[@francesfehrman741]

She acts like nothing happened.

[@Finn_Nurse333]

To me Natalie seems very passive aggressive, childish and manipulative. She’s 100% patronizing Mike in the taxi. I know Mike is not perfect either but he needs a simple woman. Simple in a good way.

[@annap.8709]

Kirk don't joke about that scene... She is doing a great job? She is nice and playful? Omg she just hurt him so much and now she is hurting him even more. Mike is so hurt, he cannot even look at her. Seriously?! 😳

[@valbk]

I clicked on this link so fast! LOL I think this is probably one of the best 90 Day-focused series Dr. Kirk has done.

[@Emmah1243]

Imagine getting into your Uber and there’s Dr. Kirk Honda 😂

[@benexto86]

I’d suddenly require a 3 hour detour! 😆

[@christinefaulk6531]

Natalie seems incredibly annoying and fake. She's rubbing all on him after she said she doesn't love him and threw her engagement ring. Also, she went off on him because he didn't want a baby immediately. She's all over the place and this is not okay.

[@olgatalroze8732]

I am a huge fan of your podcast and just discovered these videos after listening to one of your latest episodes. Thank you so much for all you do

[@asunnywebb]

No no no. She wasn't being playful. She was being dismissive and cruel. Laughing at his feelings. He is not safe to respond to her at this moment.

[@jasminehouston-burns1691]

"Everybody loves you" except me.

[@pamelac3940]

I feel like not enough of the castmembers on the shows recognize that language fluency (and also cultural norms) impair the ability to have clear communication with their partner. This is especially the case with Americans, since typically they're expecting their partner to communicate in a non-native language (English) So many of these people jump to the least charitable interpretation possible about their partner's intent behind a statement or action. Few seem to stop and consider whether there might be a language fluency issue or some piece of cultural context they don't understand. For example, in some cultures, things Americans see as "coldness" and or "harshness" are just the way people communicate.

[@LilPotatoz]

In the taxi scene, I see so much the younger me in Mike (totally locked up and unable to communicate my emotions) and the slightly more grown up me in Natalie, who is still really flawed but has more self-awareness, openness and other methods express myself with humour, affection, etc (thanks to therapy and good friends around me)

[@vajolinda]

I believe the attachment theory podcast was 17 hours (!), loved it, binged it in a few days, totally worth it to become a patreon

[@spicy_ctrlo7132]

I started going to therapy because of you Doc . I had to stop though cause my insurance only helps for a certain amount of money but hopefully she’ll take me back when it resets, my boyfriend and I are about to look at houses and my dad is our realtor so it has already been very stressful hopefully goes well though ... dad isn’t the best communicator when it comes to me

[@kokiekokie7608]

Good luck with your therapy!

[@notthatjensen1470]

The more I hear about attachment theory the more interested I am, but the more terrified I am that I am somehow going to fail my daughter and she will end up with a avoidant or anxious attachment style

[@jessicamitchell4]

So... are we just going to ignore the fact that she said that she should've been with an older man once Mike shows some emotion? If I was talked to like that whenever I got emotional, I would hide my face from her too.

[@sacmakiz]

oh deer. my fiance and i are just like this couple. i am strict vegan and he said he was in the beginning but now he orders pepperoni pizza whenever and doesn't care how the smell bothers me in a small apartment, he says 'it's my freedom!' he shuts down very often and becomes hostile if i don't give him a lot of space. he drinks and smokes pot to a point he had a seizure recently on top of stress from work. he wants me to treat him like a baby, pet him, rub his hair and all that but when i am being playful like natalie occasionally he accused me of being 'childhish'. we're going to therapy, and therapist says 'she communicates her feelings and needs very well, can you respond to her and try doing the same'. i wish he could just open up about his feelings, get the help he needs so we can just relax and be our messy selves and still feel safe in our home. but he is so rigid, so obsessive during the day with work then obsessive with the video games he plays, doesn't make time for us then blames me for not having interest in his world: fantasy books, pot etc even though that is NOT how we bonded years ago. he's changed a lot and i am scared to lose him to his substance abuse, his rigidity that causes immense stress on us an on our relationship. it triggers my old wounds a lot and i am working on myself regularly so it gives me the opportunity to heal my wounds but i am really tired of our roller coaster.

[@sacmakiz]

for natalies out there, i feel your pain honey. for mikes out there, i feel your pain too and i wish you could feel it yourself too rather than numbing with a beer or running away and blaming the other person for not being as your equal. be human, be messy, get therapy, heal your wounds and show up for yourself and for your partner if you really want happines, do-your-part. don't expect woman to 'not cause any trouble' to you or 'be your mother' because that's not what life or partnership is about. grow yourself up, heal your inner hurt child, dedicate yourself to become your fully functioning self every-single-day. your partner is there for you along the way. it's right there, if you can just look at it and own it. god damnit!

[@lilyzemengist8091]

Isn't it a little condescending to attempt to settle his emotions or lack thereof with the tone she used and telling him that his mom and dad love him?

[@polkbritton]

Honestly in the context of her tossing Mike's heirloom ring in his suitcase like a balled up piece of scrap paper after essentially saying she didn't love him, Natalie's "playfulness" in the car comes off as mocking. Especially given how over the top it is like when she says "your mom loves you, your dog loves you, everybody loves you, you're a great man, etc." I mean yeah she really didn't have a lot of options at that point in the cab ride and certainly a lot was probably lost in cultural translation, but nonetheless that's how it came off to me at least.

[@UnKnownUser123-i2o]

Oh my. Natalie and Mike surely have had some damaged relations either personal or family oriented. I feel sorry for them.. Thank you Dr Honda for opening my eyes about how I can improve the way I communicate with my boyfriend. By me changing the way that I’m talking to him, I can actually see how he has changed talking to me as well. You are awesome 🤗👏🏼

[@BoddieParis]

I actually like Natalie she seems like she gets triggered in many different ways maybe as time goes on we might see a pattern to what triggers her but she’s able to say sorry and apologize I wish he would communicate his pain vs pretending like it doesn’t matter because what he’s feeling does matter hopefully overtime he’ll be able to express himself in a non passive way he looks like he needs a hug and someone to ask how he’s feeling directly

[@Michelle-rv9ks]

Dr. Kirk does a “mean” Mike impression