😏9mm+P+ Is "Just as Powerful" as .357 Sig?🤣 Okay Buddy - Underwood Xtreme Defender!

[@DanTheWolfman]

Hi guys, would you Plz allow me to post my 2nd "Modern Meat Target" kzbin.info/www/bejne/kGqsl4l5mbmcpsU +P vs +P+ Is Plus P Velocity More Effective?

[@lanedexter6303]

Everyone has a favorite caliber. But tests and numbers don’t lie. The .38 Super has an edge on 9mm, the .357 SIG has an edge on .38 Super. What really matters in the defensive world is accuracy. We enjoy these comparisons, and I’m all for carrying as much gun as you can manage. But carry what works for you.

[@willo7734]

Yep. The most effective caliber is the one you can shoot accurately.

[@davidjernigan7576]

Pretty much my thoughts on comparative power. Then there is the wear always running +p+.

[@Nerotique]

Isn't it great that we have so many choices in ammo and calibers?

[@lanedexter6303]

@@Nerotique it is. And we have great bullets today. Back in the 70’s, when I started carrying, if you wanted something more effective you went to something bigger. Now we have great options in most major calibers.👍

[@wayneburrell8670]

PROPER.

[@LarryeWhite61]

NO version of 9mm is or will ever be better than 357Sig. #TruthBeTold #FactsMatter

[@RosaParksWasWyt]

9mm major. Might wanna do a little research before making comments. #TruthBeTold #FootInYourMouth

[@cw2a]

👍🏼💪🏼🤘🏼😋

[@TheGrendelbane]

9x23mm Winchester is somewhat better, with higher capacity. Though obscure, it performs very well.

[@LarryeWhite61]

@@RosaParksWasWyt troll

[@RosaParksWasWyt]

@@LarryeWhite61 how am I a troll? Have you never heard of 9mm major? My point exactly. You need to do research before commenting

[@alexandermfernandez9283]

No doubt about it , 200fps makes a difference . The .357sig is definitely , and significantly more powerful . Another great video , thanks Gun Sam !

[@GunSam]

Thanks

[@bobjohnson1633]

That's an ass load of extra power.

[@fanman8102]

The people who say the extra velocity of the 357Sig isn’t needed are the same people who say they won’t carry 380ACP because it’s too weak. Cracks me up! Excellent, thanks!

[@locomike102]

The .357 SIG has some drawbacks, but performance isn't one of them. The folks that don't think there's a difference between the 357 and the 9mm are the same folks that think the 10mm is just-as-powerful as the .44 mag. In some cherry-picked situations, this is true, but these are exceptions.

[@64samsky]

Amen, my friend in arms!

[@ryantogo8359]

No, they're the same people who touts the 10mm and call the 40 s&w the short and weak 😂

[@FoulPet]

Other than price, what drawbacks?

[@Keyronta4x]

I used to be that 10mm guy, then Roland called me

[@ElainesDomain]

The running joke I have at my LGS is they just need one more + added to a 9mm to make it just as good as...pick something.

[@faryldaryl3975]

I miss my old .38 Special +P+Uranium t-shirt, from back when the ACLU was bitching about police use of hollow-points. "Support the use of low yield nuclear devices by local law enforcement."

[@NotAffiliated]

they put the extra plus on the end just to make sure they are being inclusive.

[@kimness7796]

No, so they could get an extra $5 per box.

[@vexedmachines7935]

These 9mm guys always just as good as every caliber but no other caliber whants to be as good as 9mm

[@strokin3s]

357 definitely sounded louder hitting the metal target to me.

[@lutherpayne9957]

357 sig is my preferred round. Shoots flat and fast. If there is a downside it is the muzzle flash. Good presentation. Cheers

[@geraldstephens7481]

And Blast

[@duaneridings6591]

Great videos Sam There's two things that happen to a person when they graduate from 9 mm to 357 Sig 1. They lose their " Man Hair Bun " 2. They do not have to call the 357 Sig " Daddy " anymore

[@GunSam]

I never understood the bun, at all. Steven Segal style or even a mullet is, I guess fine, but the bun thing is progressing into something different. It's weird is all I will say lol

[@alfontana6242]

Thanks for your video. Underwood Ammo is some of the best ammo out there. The velocities are pretty close to what they publish as well. For its size the 9mm is a very efficient cartridge perhaps thats why its been around for more than 100 years.

[@nostradamus7648]

Be sure to tell that to the Bear. 😂

[@russellsandidge4210]

I have had people in the pistol & rifle club I belong to try and tell me the close to the same thing... That "standard" 9 mm is "just as effective" as 357 sig. I saw a video sometime ago a comparison between 124 grain 9 mm and 125 grain 357 sig through a chronograph and ballistic gel. The nine-millimeter didn't even come close in velocity or effectiveness on the ballistic gel compared to the 357 sig... But there's people still say 9 mm is just as good as 357 sig. I don't even argue back with them

[@amazingamerican3958]

The people at your club are probably talking about stopping power. I found a study comparing real world gun fighting situations that calculated the number of shots to stop an attacker. The study found no statistical difference between the major handgun calibers .380, .38 special, 9mm, .40, .45. There was a slight increase in stopping power with .357 magnum, but it wasn't much.

[@denmar355]

.357 Sig wins every time with the higher velocity with every test I’ve tried. And I love that the xtreme defender really doesn’t care about most barriers.

[@GunSam]

Filmed 5-26-23

[@joehebert901]

Great video brother. I hate 9mm I think its a compromise round. The .357 sig and the .40 S&W are just better rounds. If you have to go to +P or +P+ to do the same thing why wouldn't you just go with the better round to begin with.

[@grizz474]

Because 9mm is cheaper to shoot, is a great self defense round, fits more rounds in the same size gun....and you can get a 9mm platform in a smaller more shootable firearm than either a .40 or .357sig. However; My favorite pistol is my duty sized XDM .40....love that gun.

[@mefirst5427]

My handloads of 357 sig 90 grain XTP bullets with CFE pistol is averaging 1685 fps out of Glock 31. Straight wall cartridges like the 9x19 is no match for bottleneck cartridges, +P+ is for suckers only.

[@cw2a]

🤘🏼👍🏼🤟🏽😋😝

[@robertdavis1102]

This is the first review where someone used the same barrel length in both guns to compare with!! Thanks for doing it right! I bought my first 357 glock back in the 90s and love it!

[@scottblackwell1215]

Interesting. You can really see the power through the MDF.

[@user-gg3qq8cq5g]

I can always check back here for the best analytics and demonstrative testing. Thanks Sam!

[@SomebodysNephew]

Been torn between my next carry pistol being a 357 Sig or a 30 super carry. Enjoyed the video. Good stuff. Always love these shoot offs between the different calibers. Educational and Entertaining. Still torn...lol. The wound channel on that 357 Sig is phenomenal but 17+1 on that 30 super carry...probably gonna have to get one of each.

[@GunSam]

Buying one of each is always the best solution.

[@jamiemitchell9733]

I have a Shield Plus 30 Super Carry and a Glock 22 I converted to 357 Sig. Yes just get both. 🤙

[@SomebodysNephew]

@@jamiemitchell9733 I like the idea of the conversion.

[@SomebodysNephew]

@@nikos6220 Im gonna have to look into this more. Haven't heard much on them being converted to that caliber and sounds very intriguing. Two of you have already suggested that route so it seems reliable. That's my only main concern. I do like Glock. I'm a bit of an M&P fanboy but I don't have a die hard preference. I will definitely be checking this out.

[@TooManyChoices1]

@@bobjones-bt9bh facts lol 😂.

[@professorpewpuew]

Just remember to swing your arm when you say "just as powerful."

[@GunSam]

Ideally, mine would be better. If you have ever seen the original Universal Soldier, Dolph Lundgren throws a grenade and then yells in a full arm swing...that would be a better way to show my excitement of JUST AS GOOD! kzbin.info/www/bejne/raHWcpxqjZeVjdk

[@cw2a]

Good stuff man! 9mm guys STILL wont believe...

[@kimness7796]

Good test. I'm glad I'm not the only one putting .40 size cases in a 9mm mag.

[@sombra6153]

Underwood has certainly put a lot of development into both loadings. I’m curious about a head to head between the 9mm 9BPLE or Winchester 127 against a 125 grain Gold Dot in .357 Sig. Those loadings had been around for quite a while.

[@robpelick7460]

9BPLE is the round that made the 9mm not suck. I conversed with a LEO who used it on the job. His comments convinced me to buy a case of which I still have several boxes. I cherish that stuff and frankly, have no qualms about using it as my carry round today.

[@sombra6153]

@@robpelick7460 It was my first 9mm issued duty load in 1991. Ballisticslly similar to the Federal 110 grain .357 that was the issues round for revolvers where I worked. I don’t carry it anymore but it was a great performer in its time. Personally think the 124 grain a+P Gold Dots or HSTs are just as good as they benefit from technological development. The Gold Dot +P is running close to the same velocities as Hydra Shok 124 grain +P from the early 90s which was also a duty load. But the 9BPLE is certainly not obsolete.

[@jpg_sig10]

Another great presentation. Thank you. As you've just demonstrated here, .357 SIG is clearly more powerful than 9mm +P+, and IMHO, better overall. I do carry 9mm +P+, specifically Underwood Ammo's 124 Gr (SGD) Bonded JHP +P+ in my 4" compact double-stack pistol when I go road bike riding. For most other things, however, I'm now carrying 10mm Auto in a 4.6" full size double-stack platform, all Underwood Ammo: - 165 Gr (SGD) Bonded JHP for warm weather personal self-defense / home-defense - 180 (Hornady) XTP JHP for cold / winter weather personal self-defense / home-defense And for wilderness trail biking / hiking / camping large critter personal self-defense, all Underwood Ammo 10mm Auto: - 200 Gr FN Hardcast (19+1 rounds, primary) - 140 Gr Xtreme Penetrator (16+1 rounds, secondary) - 200 Gr XTP JHP (16+1 rounds, tertiary) Good things! 👍

[@nightvan4427]

Yes, Sir💙💙💙 I have M&P in 357. I bought it used for $400, only had the small bold spot on grep and the front point paint was broken, I fixed the bold with a sharp knife and I painted the dot hole. It's so accurate, I have some clips

[@Denise-ch6je]

Another excellent comparison by Gun Sam. Non biased and entertaining.

[@GunSam]

Thank you.

[@randyblackburn9765]

I’ve been asking gun channels for a couple years for this very comparison. Thanks for showing. If there is a benefit for +p+ it would be mag capacity.

[@GunSam]

Maybe, but if one is talking self defense and the person shooting is barely competent (As both these are easy for anyone to shoot well), less rounds are needed. Both 16 and 18 rounds respectively should be double to triple than what is needed typically.

[@Papaw58]

Great Test, I really enjoy your content !

[@mikefarley5358]

Love the Paul Kersey Shirt!

[@yonitidi3711]

I carry a Glock 35 converted to 357sig with a 6" barrel. It gets 2275fps with the 65 grain Leighi Defense from Underwood. I put this gun together and then later chronoed a Glock 32 and it still got 2200 fps. I would love to see you compare 9mm to 357sig in the lighter weight bullets.

[@GunSam]

I tested the 65 or 68 gr version of this, was getting like 2,200 FPS, 2,223 if I recall, something like that.

[@rxmarlo2303]

Wouldent this equal ar pistol ballistics? 2200 fps 65 grains🤔

[@yonitidi3711]

@@rxmarlo2303 Yes it would which is why I put the pistol together. I have had 2 incidents where I shot terrorist in the exact same way one was with my 9mm pistol and the other 10.5 inch Colt Commando. The rifle did a lot more damage. Friends have take this 357sig round and shot hogs with it and it delivered rifle like performance

[@SamSung-tr9lw]

Oh dude. I just commented and apparently did nearly the same thing with a Glock 35 with a 5.84" barrel. I have some but haven't loaded up the 65gr Defenders yet.

[@wemcal]

Super great video.. we had start switching our .40sw barrels to .357sig before I retired.. it was an attention getter… that .357sig is serious business.. the ammo is just too expensive.. you also get the nail on the head about passing through someone kill them… not gonna happen… even with JFK!! it’s just funny how the round’s changed throughout the years to accommodate the suits and recruits.. super Great video

[@guardianminifarm8005]

Great compare & contrast. Good data & demo. Thank you.

[@willo7734]

Man, that 357 Sig is powerful. I think i’d be ok using that round for black bear defense. The 9mm+p+ isn’t any kind of slouch either. How was the recoil on those? I saw a slight difference on the 357 but it didn’t look from here like it was too crazy. As a side note it’s cool that you can get good test subject matter even just by disproving an incorrect statement on the internet. That’s why your channel is one of the best. You rely on real world experiments instead of just assertions without evidence.

[@GunSam]

The 9mm+P+ felt about like, standard pressure target ammo, no joke. The .357 Sig felt about the same for recoil as target .40 S&W ammo.

[@willo7734]

@@TackJorrance I didn’t mean it’d be my first choice. Just commenting on how powerful it is.

[@bobcatforever3485]

Thanks. Another good and informative video. Thanks for sharing and take care.

[@GunSam]

Thank you, take care.

[@timrobinson6573]

I bet that 9mm +P+ could take out a strawman

[@MichealAdams-pg9cu]

Thanks, good video!

[@RonaldColeman-ef2rc]

Thank you for your show and valuable info.

[@michaelisaac9600]

Thanks for a variety of tests/reviews/comparisons! For 357 Sig conversion of your M&P 40, what barrel manufacturer did you use?

[@CityInTheDark1]

357 Sig out of a 4 inch barrel (Glock 32) is probably the best self defense personal protection package you can carry. The ballistics are just insane, and it’s easily concealable with a decent round count.

[@biggunshandguns3687]

Planning ahead helps when needing ammo in hard to find calibers

[@ratagris21]

Nice test Sam. Just remember people are compensating 9mm with pluses instead of upgrading their weapon or ammo, and believing internet nonsense. ♠️🎩🎯🇺🇸🏁🇺🇦🔱🌻🌸💮🌼🏴‍☠️🏹

[@GunSam]

Exactly

[@joebom1981]

Love the hoodie im thinking about getting those 9mm rounds for m11-a1 for my everyday carry

[@joebom1981]

M11-a1 is a really good gun mine has E2 grips & a dpm recoil spring guide in leather lock holster

[@franklinmarks7845]

Have the ninety grain+p+, I've been carrying that bullet for about 5 years now but I think now that I can manage recoil would prefer the 357 sig at this point

[@ronolson2024]

Nice portrayal of Paul Harrel. But as a cheap skate, you can't beat 9mm for the price of the ammo. If 380 was cheaper than 9 mm I'd be shooting that all day long. In the end it comes down to "What are you willing to pay for". Wish 10 mm was the cheapest to shoot as it really does have considerable more power (and recoil), and so is more fun to shoot for me!

[@aadd62]

Great work thank you

[@garyglenn5233]

People that are convinced that the 9mm is the only caliber worth having have never studied ballistics a day in their lives. As a cartridge nerd for over 50 years, I can tell you that the 9mm isn't that good of a round. That's why the very first thing that 9mm fanatics say is capacity. In reality one round of 357 Sig has a far better chance of stopping a threat than three rounds of the hottest 9mm loads available. The Sig is the semi auto version of the 357 mag and nobody that has even bothered to look at the FBI one shot stop stats can honestly say that the 9mm is even close to the 357 mag in terminal performance. They're just going by what they've heard or seen on KZbin channels that are solely committed to making 9mm videos. I've shot most of the calibers made over the past 50 years and can tell you from personal experience that the 9×19 is just not that good. It's basically a +P version of the 9×18 Makarov and I've never heard anyone claim that the Mak is a great round. Before someone blindly believes that any caliber is the best, do the research yourself and you might be surprised by what you find.

[@GunSam]

Yes. And it's one of those things math cannot explain to people. Frankly I have no way of explaining it myself, that how can the best 9mm round at maybe 1,300 FPS not be that effective, yet 200 FPS more like .357 Sig/Mag, becomes a fight stopper? I can never answer people with that other than, that's just the sweet spot for adding more, and the proof is out there that this 200 FPS more takes it from 9mm's 5-10 shots to stop a threat, down to 1-2 shots to stop a threat. Some things you don't have to understand to take advantage of and benefit from.

[@jpoeng]

Have you ever done a back to back between the .357 SIG xtreme defender vs the 115 or 100 grain .40 S&W? I’m curious because while the .40 gives up muzzle velocity, at a constant sectional density, it gains tangential rotational velocity because it’s got the larger diameter… They fluid dynamics bullets add this new dimension where diameter and rotational velocity can effect stretch cavity

[@SamSung-tr9lw]

Sheesh. These are screening. I build a Glock 35 in 357 Sig with a 5.84" barrel. Normally I handload 147gr XTP's for it but I picked up some 65gr Xtreme Defender bullets to load up. Quite curious at to how far north of 2K fps they will go. Purely just because I want to know. Haven't tried them yet though.

[@PC-vq5ud]

all you need to see is the muzzle blast from 357 Sig to know what the truth is.

[@petefrancis6364]

😂😂😂😂

[@ElainesDomain]

I'll stick to the .38 or .40 or .357.

[@toolmakerbest1584]

Hi Sam, my wife and I just purchased a set of 9mm S&W FPC's with 16.25" barrels. Do you have any idea of what the FPS would be with this ammo? Thank you for another great video!

[@JMane3000]

Hornaday critical duty 135 gr

[@marknorwood7521]

First off, I like Underwood a lot. Couple of questions, 1: Is that Xtreme "Defense" or "Penetrator"? 2: What kind of difference would the added velocity of the 68 gr (1800 fps) make in penetration? Also I realize many guns accept +P, no problem. I'm wondering how many are rated for +P+?

[@64samsky]

I carry the Glock 32c in 357Sig, I never feel undergunned!

[@billdauterive1180]

YMMV but for myself i want the greatest amount of rapid, controllable energy on target. My underwood xtreme defender 65 grain .357 sig's are pushing over 2000 fps and 636 fpe out of my glock 32, with the recoil impulse of a 124 grain 9mm. Even Federal plinking ammo pushes past 1300 fps and 500 fpe in most cases. I honestly love 9mm as well, but it's not the ultimate do-all defensive caliber it keeps being forced to be with all its additional +'s and p's.

[@crusiethmaximuss]

.357SIG is awesome!!! I wonder what that 9x19mm +P+ load would do out of a Henry Homesteader?🎩🧐🤔

[@nicoscarfo4486]

You should test the 357sig Liberty Civil Defense, these are my new favorite rounds by far

[@craigdamage]

I don't recall anyone ever saying 9mm +P+ is "just as powerful" as .357 SIG but more or less I've heard criticism of how anemic most available .357 SIG ammo is. Most manufacturers download the .357 SIG well below original design spec. Some have said that this anemic ammo is "not much better than 9mm +P+" Oh well. This is why I stick with UNDERWOOD for my .357 SIG loads. (10mm too!)

[@saltcreekammo]

Same as saying 222 Remington is as powerful as 22-250 😂.. bless his heart.

[@mikereinhardt4807]

Would be great to see 38 super comparison with 9mm and 357 sig. I know it's old school but so am I...

[@adamsaylor7427]

Sam, what is the conversion barrel you have? I may get one of these .40s soon as I love my 9mm

[@GunSam]

KKM longslide/pro 5.01"

[@ericstites9470]

Just curious, how's the difference in recoil? I have that same pistol in .40, might be interested in getting a Sig barrel for it....

[@ericstites9470]

I guess you kinda answered that later in the video. Oops! 😂

[@nightvan4427]

And the 357 Sig bullet form, is more reliable for jams.💙💙💙

[@aadd62]

Around December of 2019, I noticed a change in the design of the extream defender bullets. The new production seemed to be extruded as the older bullets seemed milled. Perhaps your. 357 sig rounds are old production

[@mesauer]

One observation. Look at the slow mo of the bullet impacts. The 357 sig has considerably more “temporary wound cavity”. This is a critical part of a bullets true stopping power. That temporary stretch is what shocks vital organs. A vital organ that is not directly impacted by the bullet can be “shut down” by the temporary wound cavity. I agree, significant difference between the two calibers!

[@mesauer]

The stretching of the tissue (temporary cavity) is the way you can “see” the pressure. We are saying the same thing.

[@Drmcclung]

Sometimes it's only an availability issue. We can always get 9mm in just about all flavors pretty much anywhere in the country. I don't dispute their effectiveness in any way but .38 Super and .357 Sig aren't always on the shelf locally and sometimes even when they are it's only the cheap and shitty loads left on the shelf. I have that problem with some of my old rifles, can't always get preferred loads for them.

[@GunSam]

The .357 Sig is a bit like, .32 S&W Long in that they are often not on local store shelves, but they can always be found online as both are pretty common and popular, just not common and popular in all parts of the country.

[@charlesbaylis8650]

Still looking for bear country gun idk if i should go with the 357sig or 10mm

[@GunSam]

You have options. The 10mm cartridge is more effective against bears than .357 Sig, that being said a .40 S&W pistol with .357 Sig barrel still allows you to use .40 S&W, and the hot .40 S&W hard cast ammo, is nearly as good in practice as hard cast 10mm ammo. It's all about bullet mass and shape, the 10mm and .40 S&W can use 180-220 gr flat nose hard cast ammo which penetrates deep, more so in .40 S&W than a typical .357 Sig bullet.

[@charlesbaylis8650]

@@bobjones-bt9bh my area is has black Bear and mountain lions

[@sirdanoman]

10mm with 220-grain hardcast. You need some mass vs just velocity on tough critters.

[@nicoscarfo4486]

The only drawback to 357sig is 1 or 2 less rounds will fit in a standard magazine compared to 9mm but would you carry 25acp over 9mm because you can carry more rounds

[@GunSam]

I have seen a few videos with cops shooting bad dudes with .357 Sig and .40 S&W. The .357 Sig is usually a one shot instant stop, the .40 S&W is about the same except it's usually two shots. Then - I have seen dozens of videos of cops shooting bad dudes with 9mm....and it's nearly always something like, the 12th or 13th round going in them and then they start to fall over. To me that says a lot. In the 'real world' I would say, in effect the .357 Sig and .40 S&W have more useable capacity. A 15 shot .357 Sig in the right hands could drop like 10 dudes - accounting for misses, adrenalin etc. The 9mm could probably drop like two due to how ineffective it seems to be. The ballistic one shot stop charts shows 9mm as good as everything else basically, but the footage I have seen would dispute those numbers.

[@frawdulent]

The 9mm hitting the steel is just embarrassing. It’s barely scratching the paint. I don’t understand why the guntubers push it so much. I’ll stick with my 40sw and 10mm.

[@GunSam]

It's just that these are copper and they do not flatten on the steel, so they don't leave as big of marks.

[@margarethouse404]

Historically , there was a grain of truth to the " 9mm +P+ = .357 Sig . ( Clue - Today's .357 Sig has more velocity than 1st gen loads ) . Back when .357 Sig was new , typical real world was 125 gr @ +\- 1250 fps ( multiple piblished chrono tests ) . In the same era , CorBon 115gr @ 1337 fps ( my chrono from G17 , but also multiple published chrono tests similar ) . Both had excellent terminal performance , both of them overlapping full power .357 Mag 125gr from 2.5 inch revolver .

[@GunSam]

I recall reading that the .357 Sig was supposed to go 1,350 FPS from a 4" semi auto, which equaled a .357 Mag from a 3" barrel, or in a 5" semi auto the .357 Sig matched the 4" .357 Mag loads. My guess is the hotter ammo was the advertised, but the low end is what was used and shot to 'fool' agencies into adopting it as 9mm recoil, .357 Mag power.

[@grizz474]

For self defense....a bad guy wouldn't know the difference between the two. There's a reason everybody carries a 9....more rounds, less recoil, cheaper to shoot, less report. Having said all that....the .357sig does kick ass!

[@rohawaha]

There is no such thing as over penetration , as you go up in bullet weight 9mm cases cannot hold enough powder to keep up with .357 Sig. I shoot 9mm Major or " Major Power Factor " at matches . I have driven 9mm 124 gr hp's to 1,425 fps to compete in that foot ponds energy class with Bryan Enos load data " and this is common " . I have been reloading over 45 years , back in the day .357 magnum was king . Why you ask ? Because back in the day police ballistics on shootings of all calibers were available and everyone wanted the caliber with the highest percentage of One Shot Stops . For Forty Years the King of One Shot Stops was a .357 magnum round with a 125 gr. bullet velocity 1,500 fps ! It was devastating on the human body. Well .357 Sig duplicates these exact ballistics with twice the capacity of a revolver, and that is why I owe several .357 Sig pistols.

[@johnw4999]

People need to be more concerned about hitting their target than over penetration. I challenge anyone to annotate one civilian shooting where over penetration injured an innocent bystander. I’m glad you touched on how clear gel is not the same as 10% the FBI uses all compared to human tissue. As gel tests become the norm, it’s important for people not to get use to such tests and start correlating the results as results one may expect on the streets.

[@GunSam]

True. I think I heard of it where a cop did it, but not an ordinary person.

[@johnw4999]

@@GunSamand they are much more likely to be in confined areas w non-threat targets. Even taking LE in to consideration, how many over penetration reports are there where someone was inadvertently injured? I was a LEO for over ten years and haven’t heard of any - not that that means anything, lol. I’m sure the results would be so low that over penetration is almost a moot point… except for Air Marshals etc.

[@crsquirrely73]

could you do this test again with hollow points maybe some buffalo bore or federal HST or hydra shock

[@GunSam]

Why would you assume, I have not tested those already?

[@gloriamaletta8667]

357 SIG is more powerful than 9mm +P and 40SW but less powerful than 10mm 357SIG and 10mm are a joy to shoot out of a fullsize handgun fun powerful and as you go over 50 yards or more the 357 SIG and 10mm really shine in accuracy and power love both but it's a ammo price problem vs 9mm they are pretty expensive to shoot and practice with have a SIG P320 fullsize 4.7 barrel 40SW / 357 SIG combo and a Glock 21 Gen4 45ACP / 10mm 5.2 inch threaded barrel combo with 10mm and 45ACP magazines love both of these guns and do not want to sell them ever it's a expensive treat to shoot a 100 rounds of either 357 SIG or 10mm wish l had the cash to shoot them way more often generally shoot 9mm 22LR because of cost and even 9mm isn't that cheap to shoot if your popping 200+ rounds or more per range vist

[@libra7624]

another myth misunderstood by the gun communty is pain, books written about pain show that just because the wound is bigger it doesnt mean it hurts more because it depends on the nerves and also you got delayed pain that you dont feel sometimes when your in shock so a little more damage doesnt equate always to more pain like on a 1 - 10 chart because it depends on many factors, this is why guys can soak up anything unless blood pressure gets dropped or head shot, spine and such, damage certainly will stop someone but if that shot is in the right place. if you blow out the heart with a 9 mm or 357 sig i dont think there is much of a difference to mean much when a round with 10 - 20% less energy yields almost the same results, a 60 caliber hole in the heart or 70 caliber is still a big hole gushing out and like i said a non vital area it doesnt mean 10 - 20% more energy hurts more wich is a myth people used to equate more damage with more pain wich isnt always true due to many factors, you actually surviving being shot by a smaller caliber will feel more pain if nerve ending can still send messages to the brain where as a larger caliber may sever nerves giving it a numb feeling or a delayed pain that comes later when you get treated, its the same concept of breaking a leg and not feeling it at first and then stub picky toe on door and jump up and own right away feeling more pain immediately from smaller wound, so people think for example if you get hit in a non lethal area with a 9 mm and a 45 then the 45 you will feel more pain, not necessarily and we know guys perfectly sober and not on drugs can soak up a dozen 45 acp rounds if shot placement isnt correct like the cop in ohio massad ayoob interviewed who finally after all his duty issue 45 acp mags of his Glock 21 45 hit the perp with his last shots in heart and head wich is proof its all about shot placement since pain doesnt kick in even with a wide wound channel or the will of that person can ignore pain better, even a adrenaline dump in the body can offset pain

[@GunSam]

I want to address something that has been bothering me lately, and that is the repeat comment in some form or another, about .357 Sig ammo price and availability. Paraphrasing 100 comments into one here - ".357 Sig is not available anywhere, and it's two to three times the cost of 9mm so it's useless". My question to these people is - what are you even talking about?! I know that a lot of physical stores do rack up the price because all they offer is generally Federal American Eagle .357 Sig, which is very pricey ammo. But to say that the cartridge is hard to find and to say it's like $60 a box in general, is very factually wrong. Going on ammoseek, there are 5+ pages of .357 Sig for purchase just like any other popular cartridge, and about a dozen of these retailers offer 50 round boxes of .357 Sig for $22 to $25. Also, defensive ammo is often about the same price if not less than 9mm+P defensive ammo. The fact is, .357 Sig is not all that hard to find and not all that expensive. It's not a lot different (at least online) than buying a 50 round box of .357 Magnum for cost and availability, but for whatever reason a lot of people are either seriously misinformed or have an agenda to make it seem as .357 Sig ammo is about as rare and expensive as .455 Webley (5 retailers online averaging about $65-$70).

[@somebloke13]

That Siggy would mess you up! 😱😱

[@2Aknight762]

Do the same test with hollow points.

[@GunSam]

I have many times

[@roraev9296]

Bullet choice is critical at higher velocities. 357 SIG bullets need to be closer in construction to 357 mag bullets. 9mm jhp bullets at 357 velocities turn into pancakes and penetrate similarly.

[@kennethvansickle3707]

The 357 Sig was envisioned as a cartridge for pistols that approximates the power of the 125 gr 357 magnum, which it certainly does. Unfortunately the ammo is so expensive that it has not become a commercially viable round. Pushing a 9mm to attempt to attempt to duplicate the performance of the Sig will undoubtedly result in premature wear on the 9mm. Accept the 9mm as the preeminent defensive round which performs well with today's ammo. If you need more, then buy a 357 or the Sig.

[@stevenflores5549]

357 sig ain’t no punk. Wish it was more popular.

[@327Federal]

Please do a Comparison of 327 Fed Mag against 357 Sig !! Long Barrel 3 or 4 inch Tests for Both would be so cool !

[@327Federal]

@@TackJorrance 327 Federal Magnum has unbelievable performance from longer barrels. You’ll be surprised when you see how close they are in performance.

[@327Federal]

@@TackJorrance 327 Federal Magnum can reach velocities above 1700 FPS from a 4 inch barrel. When the time comes I’m sure that 357 Sig will be a disappointing showcase and 327 Federal Magnum will completely outperform it.

[@327Federal]

@@TackJorrance *lighter* and they also have a higher sectional density and ballistic coefficient

[@327Federal]

@@TackJorrance so pathetic that you’d volunteer to be shot with a 327 Federal Magnum?

[@jmd1743]

"Why would you buy 357 sig when you can buy bubba's pissing hot ammo?" Actually it comes down to practicality, if you're into 10mm then you might only have 357 sig as an option for a specific pistol due to frame size, some of those pistols are just a matter of swapping a 40 S&W barrel.

[@laughingdog6010]

Love the shirt

[@lelonbond6682]

i have wondered how the 50 grain defense bullets would do at longer ranges .would they fly off target at longer range?

[@Mbartel500]

There is a similar group of people who claim the 10mm is as powerful as the .41 magnum. I know…right? Wanting to believe, is one thing, but refusing to believe is ridiculous.

[@GunSam]

I mostly hear people saying the 10mm is more powerful than the .44 Mag. When I address this as wrong, they then start talking available ft lbs that add up, 15 rounds of 10mm is 11,000 ft lbs of energy, 6 of .44 Mag is 5,000 ft lbs energy etc. I tell them, that's not how it works - because their example is like saying 15 bb gun bb's is the same as a single shot of .22 LR....They stop responding.

[@Franciscoxds]

The double tap 77gr schp in 357 sig must be a devastating round

[@kc0lif]

357 sig is pretty hot.

[@eddiearchuleta615]

I’d like to see the 68 grain 9mm +p vs the 68 grain 357 sig 780ftlbs vs 500ftlbs

[@GunSam]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/qXvSmZqOmtqgjqM

[@NickRampulla]

Beware of the 9mm 40-cal burst. You can load a 9mm round into a 40 cal. Barel and creat a bore Obstruction then load a 40 cal around behind it.

[@nokoolaid]

The sig is more powerful all day every day. Probably the most underrated pistol cartridge.

[@GunSam]

Seems like about 1990 was the cutoff timeframe where no one wanted anything new. All throughout the 20th century everyone ate up all the new stuff like .357 Mag, .44 Mag, .454 Casull and everything else. The 10mm and .40 S&W barely got in, now after that no one cares. No one cares about .357 Sig, .327 Federal, .30 Super Carry and the other dozen or so new and good cartridges. Probably the fault of polymer high capacity 9mm pistols. Once they became a thing that was near 100% reliable, caliber debate went away. Now we live with 9mm fanboys comparing all their 9mm pistols that frankly look all the same to me. The good old days were more fun.

[@nokoolaid]

@@GunSam Sam: It's funny. The argument I hear from the 9mm fanboys is that under 600 ft/lbs, the efficacy isn't any different among the cartridges and we might as well get capacity with that in mind. One, if that's the case, the 30 super should be flying off the shelves. Two, I think that it's more than just energy level RE effectiveness. I tend to lean towards the momentum crowd. Yes, all the Mattel® pistols look the same, much like SUVs today and yes the good old days were more fun. There were times I had my Blackhawk in 45LC or 4" python and never felt bad about it. Then again I drive a Challenger RT Scat Pack 1320 daily, so there's that. Thanks for the response, I appreciate your work.

[@GunSam]

I get that a lot too, in the form of "all handgun rounds are the same and ineffective compared to a rifle". The real world still exists, and I have seen a ton of police body cam and older dash cam footage, and 9mm seems to do almost nothing to an attacker other than killing them 5 minutes after they were shot and taking that long to make them stop fighting or running. All the while all the footage I have seen with .40 S&W and .357 Sig, is people falling over. Typically 1 shot of .357 Sig or two shots of .40 S&W. The real world footage of .357 Sig I have seen mirrors the stories I have heard about .357 Magnum. I do not know why a 124 gr bullet at 1,250 FPS seems so ineffective yet that same bullet weight at 1,500 FPS is super effective, makes no sense....but the footage doesn't lie. My only guess is that in my ballistic testing, a lot of .357 Sig ammo of that weight tends to explode and fragment, but at 1,200 FPS that rarely happens.

[@SuperD00D]

I certainly believe 9mm is an effective cartridge, I even use .380 sometimes, but .357 sig is certainly up there with .357 magnum. Whenever people get into debating .40, .45, and 9mm, I always say those hardly make a difference and you don’t really see a difference with pistols until you get to .357 sig/magnum or 10mm. I mean granted it depends on ammo and firearm choice, but .40 does not outclass 9mm in the way .357 sig does

[@GunSam]

I have seen so many police body cam clips where cops shoot 7-15 rounds into a suspect and nothing happens, guy takes off or whatever, and the caliber involved is always 9mm. Even with .40 S&W the footage I have seen is usually like 2 shots, bad guy drops...or .357 Sig is one shot, bad guy drops. I don't know what it is about 9mm, but it's either going to work sometimes or not work at all other times. Just doesn't seem as consistent of a fight stopper as better calibers/cartridges.

[@mk45gunnr25]

actual terminal ballistic differences, as in wounding and mythical "stopping power" between handgun rounds is negligible. Carry whatever load that YOU shoot BEST. It's really that simple. Getting into these extra powder handgun (yes I said powder not power) does NOT ensure that you are carrying a magic "death-ray".

[@peelreg]

SIG should have named it the 9mm Magnum. Because that is what it really is.

[@GunSam]

Now days, yes if invented now maybe 9mm Magnum. But in 1994, cops were still transitioning from .357 Mag revolvers to semi autos, and none trusted any caliber other than their proven .357 Mag, so Sig named it .357 Sig to get the interest of law enforcement.

[@veroman007]

It’s just a matter of everyone has already bought a 9 mm and think it’s the best so whatever the results are you’re not going to convince them otherwise. Plus the ammo was cheaper and more abundant

[@GunSam]

Yes, exactly. Said guy buys a Taurus G2C (decent pistol not knocking it) and a box of target ammo, then researches what he bought and finds evidence he made the best choice, then starts getting into grey areas- urban legend type nonsense that it's just as powerful as .357 Magnum and the like. You can find exactly what you want to hear if you look long enough for it. They say Bigfoot chasers always find evidence of it's existence, because they were looking for what they thought correct evidence was.

[@veroman007]

@@GunSam the Budweiser of guns 😉

[@allenbolen9705]

Great performance on the 9 mm! 357 sig failed the FBI test🤦🏼. 357 sig be great woods round. Probably 357 sig HST wouldn’t over penetrate.

[@wayneburrell8670]

357 SIG

[@chadmathias7254]

Is +p+ safe in my sig p320 axg legion comp?

[@lelonbond6682]

the problem with bullets flying off at range may be the rifling is designed for a bullet half again as heavy.that weight is not stable.

[@PlayingWithFireOutdoors]

.357 SIG is capable of punching through soft body armor 3 3+ consistently