9mm vs. .45 | Tactical Rifleman

[@charlesintx1776]

When all other variables are held constant and the ammo is similar, bigger holes are ALWAYS better than smaller holes. Great video!!!

[@leichterKampfer]

So sizes matters😅

[@nuancolar7304]

Perhaps, but it's also better to put the hole in the right place. I'd rather hit what I'm aiming at with a 9mm than miss with a .45, so the answer to the debate is whatever you shoot best is the best choice.

[@andresmalo254]

That’s what grandma said

[@davidh9659]

So a 45 should easily trounce 10mm and 44mag, seeing how those nowhere near rifle velocities either, so you can just ignore energy, aye?

[@McDavis-w3u]

@@davidh9659 energy is barely a factor with any pistol caliber out of a pistol barrel. That's just the fact of the matter. Pistols are marginal compromises whose job is to put holes in people at comparatively low velocities. They're not killing anything with 'energy' like a rifle can. As such, yes, the pistol that can poke bigger, bloodier holes is superior, at least in regards to lethality.

[@3ddon602]

The most fair 9mm vs 45 debate I’ve seen.

[@Autobotmatt428]

Beats Garand thumbs

[@pjoffrion]

45 acp is not for everyone. However , there is something to be said about a guy who masters the 45 acp. I love it. Hits hard.

[@robertsears8323]

Right training is by far the most important if you can't hit the target is don't matter what round you use. If a guy trains hard with a .45 they do have a slight advantage over the 9mm guys.

[@johngray9986]

AGREE 100%

[@jfhucka1]

Much Cheaper to train with 9 though

[@teddy2guns404]

10mm is better

[@joemarchinski914]

@@teddy2guns404 what you have and train with are better than what somebody else brags about being the best

[@themudshark1106]

The Springfield Armory X.D. Tactical 5 inch barrel that holds 14 .45 ACP rounds is an awesome combat .45.

[@johnlouis6892]

If you get a chance, try the Sar k2 45 or 45c. Just like the Cz, it shoots flatter and smoother than a 9.

[@encinobalboa]

XD9 Service owner here. Agree. Against the zombies, I would take XD45 over my 1911. XD is super reliable with predictable trigger action and does not need constant cleaning.

[@mrwayne5158]

This is actually one of the best videos on 9mm vs 45. The pushback and wound channels from the .45 is clear. 9mm will do great but .45 does have that extra. I carry 9mm atm but i am gonna be buying a Glock 21 in .45 acp. I like both and will not stop carrying 9mm because both have their uses.

[@gripaimsqueeze]

Glock 21 is sooo good

[@thomaspalmer7900]

@@gripaimsqueezeabsolutely!!! I love my Glock G21 G4

[@mrwayne5158]

​@thomaspalmer7900 I ended up getting a 1911A1 45acp. I choose not to carry it and found the best medium between 9mm and 45acp to be 40s&w at 155-165 grains for best weight/velocity ratio. I see 40 s&w for better capacity, energy transfer, and less expensive than 45acp. I like my 1911A1 and know it could do the job fine but I also wouldn't want to have to give it to the police after a self-defense. scenario.

[@FunkMonster98]

Just bought a Gen 4 Glock 21, should be in soon. Thanks for this!

[@FunkMonster98]

@@gripaimsqueeze Just bought a Gen 4 Glock 21, should be in soon. Thanks for this!

[@joshwilliams4554]

Solid, factual, real life experience, no BS. Much love from Alaska

[@markmadsen6828]

I saw in a movie where someone said "Never shoot a large caliber man with a small caliber gun". Or something like that.. I think I'll keep my tack driving 45.

[@joshuaputman8307]

9mm might expand, but 45acp ain't gonna shrink 😆 Makes me feel better about carrying a full size 1911, even though I don't give a shit what anyone thinks about my choice. 😁 Great video, Karl!

[@BDAILY365]

buddy told me a while back 45acp and you don't need jhp haah

[@Big-vr3hz]

What position do you carry a full size?

[@joshuaputman8307]

@@Big-vr3hz OWB on right hip. Occasionally IWB, same spot.

[@mattfleming86]

45 does have a little more punch.. but both wound like a handgun. Put good defensive ammo in either and train. Shot placement is much more important than caliber.

[@Fyoutube444]

🤣

[@Purrrrfectshot]

@@Fyoutube444 what's funny

[@Rif_Leman]

An upper thoracic shot with a B B gun will not be as effective as a hand shot with a .22LR. Caliber does matter.

[@HalfCrazy520]

@@Rif_Leman What if... you only have time to get a couple of rounds on the threat before the threat gets on you? Now, what you're hoping for is that each of those rounds did as much damage and caused as much bleeding as possible, so the threat gets weaker, faster, in this fight for control of the gun.

[@camerongunn7906]

I love how Karl suffers no fools. .45 acp isn't my everyday carry, but it is my "I need to make sure it dies" carry. I love my 9mm Glock, but I've killed bears with my .45.

[@camerongunn7906]

@Chano Leyva Haven't hunted many bears have you?

[@jason_m_schmidt622]

Bear have definitely been taken with a .45 acp but I’d rather have a 45/70

[@thetexasrat]

@@jason_m_schmidt622 But would you consider a 9mm for bear defense? Straight on head shots.

[@jason_m_schmidt622]

@@thetexasrat I wouldn’t consider a 9mm if I was headed to a place where bears or wolves had even been rumored to be. Wolves are slightly more concerning of the two

[@thetexasrat]

@@jason_m_schmidt622 That's the point I try to get the "9mm is just as good as 45ACP" guys to understand, and that is that 9mm is not just as good. Perhaps it is good enough for two legged critters but then that would mean the 45 is over kill which is even better, as it will ensure the effect desired, where 9mm might or might not work.

[@Rif_Leman]

My HK-USP-45 has a 12+1 capacity. And thanks to Karl and Imri, I am a far more competent shooter with it and my magazine changing skills are now respectable. If you can, get formal and competent training. Karl and Imri are excellent combat pistol instructors. I consider the fee for taking Karl's pistol classes money very well spent.

[@inyourdefense0]

"More holes = more dead". My 45 compact is my "get-off-me" CQB pistol. My 9 (with 20-rd mags) gives me the ability for multiple follow-up shots, or good suppressive fire if needed.

[@Bigfezzig]

The never ending debate! Love the intro. Overall the quality of the vids seems to have increased over the past few months. Keep it up Karl and gang!

[@TacticalRifleman]

That’s my son working hard on editing

[@Bigfezzig]

Go Nick!!

[@robman247]

Nick is awesome 👍👌✌️🫡🇺🇸

[@bryy2053]

Oh its ended.

[@mpr746]

@@TacticalRifleman Someone oughta be proud of their sons right now 😁

[@Stoney_AKA_James]

Good test Karl Four notes: 1) Hornady Critical Duty bullets are designed to penetrate barriers so the 16+ inches of "over penetration" is to be expected. Hornady Critical Defense bullets are designed to expand faster and are not as good for barriers. 2) I personally carry 45ACP with Federal HST 230gr JHP +P with full size pistols (1911, G21 and G41) and Federal HST non +P in my G30S. 3) The Federal +P HST bullets typically expand to .77 - .78 inches and penetrate gel (with denim) at about 12-13 inches. The largest expansion of a 9mm load that I saw was about .63 inches, but averaged .55 inches. 4) As you know, a larger diameter temporary AND permanent wound cavity is more favorable to (over)penetration. But if the first 13 bullets don't stop the aggressive behavior...

[@MyThoughtsDontBelong2U]

I thought the 230 HST went up to 1 inch diameter expansion and 12 inch penetration. I don't know averages.

[@coltonowens2742]

I love 45 for low pressure fmj that does it's job really well, and 9mm for this badass spicy hollow points. Both platforms last for damn near ever to.

[@OGsDangerShow]

I’ve never met a Critical Defense/Duty round that expanded anywhere close to their competitors over at Speer or Federal. LE in my area avoids it like the plague but guns shops sell the S out of it because everyday carriers don’t get to gel test their ammo, they simply like idea of the cool polymer tip. I shot all mine at the range years ago and won’t buy it again.

[@Lfrohawker]

It was also insanely overpriced. Why buy it when HSTs are cheaper and better anyways?

[@TommyboyGTP]

It's a controlled expanding round. It does exactly what it's designed to do.

[@OGsDangerShow]

@@TommyboyGTP yep. It controls its expansion 100% of the time. That’s to say, it doesn’t expand. We’ve done years of LE testing on them and they are underwhelming. We flat turned them down for duty use.

[@TommyboyGTP]

@@OGsDangerShow They work great on pig skulls though 😁

[@DavidLLambertmobile]

Bill Wilson of Wilson Combat is not a fan of Hornady Critical Duty. He does suggest the 9x19mm 135gr wt. I prefer 124gr in 9mm. 9mm +P HST, PDX1 bonded. I recently got 2 20rd boxes of bonded Golden Saber 124gr. +P. I disliked Big Green Golden Saber but the new owners, new 🏭 are better, 2022.

[@georgesmith6398]

Great video, Brother! My buddy and I were just discussing this yesterday. My contention based on other videos (Not experience) was that certain 9 mm rounds these days are capable of doing similar damage to the 45 caliber round. I’ll send this video to my buddy to bolster his 45 caliber superior stopping power argument. Much appreciated.

[@mrdark9916]

9mm does do similar in reality. Talk to surgeons who treat GSWs from pistols and they will often tell ya, there isn't a lot of difference. If you had 2 corpses you often wouldn't be able to tell who was killed with what. Pistol cartridges in general aren't that great, For a multitude of reasons. 45 looks great on gel and fruits tho lol 😂 but start adding different bclothing, bone, common barriers used in gunfights like car doors and auto glass and sheetrock ECT and the story changes from what you see on bare gel. Sometimes you simply NEED more penetration to even get hits on target at all, there's a lot of factors 45 is more powerful and has advantages. But those shift based on the situation and you really can't go wrong with either, but enjoy paying 2x the price per round 😉 lol I personally just think the 1-2 small advantages of 45 don't outweigh the 10 big advantages of 9mm.

[@mt11235]

I like .45, probably my favorite auto-pistol round (it and 10mm; depends on my mood), but 9mm has 3 things going for it that I think makes it the better choice for most people. 1) Easier to shoot. That means less practice, and more enjoyable practice, to get proficient. 2) Cheaper to shoot. So the average shooter can either do so cheaper or practice more. 3) More options in firearm. More options that result in better odds of finding that pistol that fits the person. All those lead to better shot placement. Especially (2). IMO the average gun owner - not people that watch YT vids on ballistics - do not get enough practice and keeping costs down at least lets them get maybe 2 boxes in instead of 1. And 9mm with good ammo is good enough for the needs of the normal SD situation so while .45 is better on paper, in practice rarely will those advantages result in a different outcome.

[@infogunvault6920]

I would also mention that the officer that is now known for carrying 145 rounds, Tim Gramins, used to carry a .45. He now carries a 9mm because it's more important to have more rounds than slightly bigger ones.

[@gavinrobinson8925]

@@infogunvault6920 yeah, but doesn't apply the same for civilian self defence, (which the original comment was referencing) carrying 145 rounds seems like a bit much. as you'll most likely only carry a couple extra mags. and you'll probably never even use those, unless you are assailed by an entire gang.

[@infogunvault6920]

@@gavinrobinson8925 I'm not suggesting that people carry 145 rounds. I'm just saying that when things get really serious, it's not the caliber of the round (comparing 9mm vs .45 ) that you'll find lacking, but rather the amount of rounds you have. I totally understand what you mean about the rounds needed for civilian self defense because I made a video about gunfight statistics (both police and civilian). kzbin.info/www/bejne/jX2vnYuqpryIiKs

[@jordanmiller7945]

So he seriously carries roughly 10 mags around with him all day? What happened that made him decide on that number? Was he involved in a bad shootout or something and ran out of ammo?

[@DadHominem]

Excellent video! Not often taken into consideration is that energy transference from projectile to target increases as the surface area of the projectile increases. Put simply, all else being equal, a 45 ACP projectile will transfer more energy (and do so more quickly) than a 9mm projectile. The advantage of projectile surface area diminishes and can be entirely eliminated when the comparison projectile mass and/or velocity is increased. Note that a doubling of the mass doubles the available energy and a doubling of the velocity quadruples the available energy of a given projectile. This is why 10mm is, for a handgun cartridge, so very effective but not nearly as effective as most center fire rifle cartridges.

[@mmabagain]

Velocity is also what makes me love the 357 mag.

[@anthonyvalenzuela4699]

Great video Karl. I appreciate you walking us through the considerations at each stage.

[@kevinfryer380]

I couldn't imagine having to use either one on someone I'm sure they will both do the job. Thank you Karl for another great video

[@hansblitz7770]

Go watch some of the CCTV footage of people getting attacked, it makes it easy to imagine putting a slug through their face, neck, sternum.

[@jamesmanning8795]

I started out a 9mm guy and I still love it but I picked up a gen 5 glock 22 and man do I enjoy shooting 40.

[@patrickcarney9474]

Karl,… I just want to give you a compliment. I think you put together a good site to learn from. I appreciate your expertise and your ability to choose a path that makes sense and one that doesn’t get caught up in the competition with other sites ( like the ballistic gel vs shooting at things that could be used for dinner that night = pork ribs , watermelon). You do your videos with a little bit of humor that is a plus. I would not even mind attending some of your training classes,.. I’m in Danville Ky ( just below Lexington) and not too awful far from you. Keep up the good work.

[@Bigjohn2121]

Love them both! I have to admit a 1911 has to be my favorite pistol to actually shoot. The thin grip and a buttery smooth trigger!

[@josemoreno-ee9cq]

My too

[@HalfCrazy520]

I am a guy who thinks John Moses Browning sits at the left hand of God... the 1911 is the greatest pistol design of all time, and the .45 ACP is my chosen hammer. I carried an officers' 1911 for a long time. Now? I carry something a lot lighter, that hold more rounds of God's caliber. Sig P-320 Nitron Compact .45. All I added was a Talon grip. It's 3.9" barrel, 10 or 11 rounds, only 26 ounces, night sights, rail, and the trigger is damned good. I shoot it just as well as a 1911.

[@lawrence3242]

The 45 moved the gel block but the 9mm did not. I think the 45 hit the gel with more energy. Also you must understand the military/NATO goes with ball ammo because it leaves a clean entry and exit wound, no expansion. Less wound damage for the target soldier. Expandable rounds are designed to create a severe wound and they do. As for penetration, how many men are 18 plus inches thick. All of these rounds 45 and 9 would go in one side and out the other.

[@v.german11b]

SGM Erikson, you always make sense. Thank you for taking your time to conduct that very telling ballistic test comparison. Appreciated. As for me is concerned, I consolidated my handgun calibers to only two: 45 ACP and 9mm. So. I am good. I rotate my handgun EDC, leaning slightly towards the 45 cal (my #1), but, since the improvements in design and performance of 9mm bullets, I trust the 9 too. With that said, IF I were told you can carry only one of the two... 🤔 FORTY-FIVE! 😎 HOAH! 🇺🇲

[@daviddundrea3424]

I often bounce back and forth between 9 and 45. They are both very good. Most people are better off with 9mm no doubt though from what I’ve seen. Most people don’t shoot often enough to be competitive with a 45acp

[@awelder4040]

.45 ACP will always always deliver way more stopping power energy then a any 9mm round... Physics don't lie... Heavier bullet and more powder... :)

[@DavidLLambertmobile]

If that's your bag, get a 10mm, .357sig . .357magnum . KE levels 🥊. I'd choose a 10mm JHP over a +P .45acp caliber.

[@TheJwalk1234]

.357 sig and magnum is light and have more foot pounds energy so I think your wrong

[@chrisnewport7826]

As someone who grew up on the GI .45 and Col Cooper, the bottom line became, 9mm have been made more efficient and the threat has changed from one on one to 5+ on one and the high capacity 9s give more firepower and the ability to do fire and maneuver/ movement. Greatest flexibility equals the 9mms. Airborne.

[@whomagoose6897]

I will never get tired of that century old argument of the .45-acp v 9mm Lugar. I do get annoyed when the last of the hold outs of that .357-Sig start running their mouths. Let that .357-Sig already!

[@jimhartzell5092]

Living here in NY, I use my 45. We're limited capacity and by your results a much less chance of being sued.

[@norseman6306]

Thanks for taking the time to do this video - good info

[@ethan5.56]

I've only ever shot a couple pistols in .45 auto and one of them was a revolver with moon clips. I just tend to drift more towards 9mm cause the ammo has always been relatively cheap and easy to get

[@bullfrogjay4383]

Great point. Ammo cost is important. 9 is easier to find and cheaper. More range time and training.

[@Rif_Leman]

@@bullfrogjay4383 And .22LR is even cheaper and as easily found.

[@vincentlavallee2779]

I wish to point out that a revolver is NOT a pistol. And since you mentioned moon clips, I assume that the revolver was a 45LC? If you want real stopping power, shoot .45LC, and NOT cowboy loads. In the Wild West days, if you were shot in the torso with a .45, you probably went down.

[@nicholaspetre1]

According to one doctor's testimony, they saved less patients wounded with 45 because due to bigger hole, the wounded bled out faster. Regarding energy transferred, just multiply the weight of the projectile by nominal travel speed and you will see which one delivers heavier punch. For example, 9mm - 126 gr x 1230 ft/sec = 154,980. And 45 cal - 230 gr x 900 ft/sec = 207,000. Meaning that 45 deliver 1/3 more energy than 9mm, 33% heavier punch. According to recoil tests I have seen, 45 is about 50% heavier recoil than 9 mm.

[@rockysenatore9682]

Karl, you know me, Brother; I own only three semi-auto pistols, all 1911 variants, two in .45 ACP and one in 460 Rowland (on account of bears). HOWEVER, during my time in the body armor business I learned that of all the DOJ required rounds at the time for Level 3A soft armor, 9mm JHP +P+ was the most difficult to defeat. It had nothing to do sheer power, but rather the mechanical cutting of several layers of the armor stack by way of the fairly small hollow point. It’s like shooting a hole punch. By comparison, 44Mag, 45, and even 10mm Auto were pretty easy to stop. So, buck up 9mm guys and gals, at least you’ve got that! 🇺🇸

[@Fyoutube444]

Yeah right!

[@RepentorPerish77]

9mm guys: technology has enhanced 9mm and therefore it’s just as effective as .45 45 guys: I guess technology had an effect on only one caliber?

[@TacticalRifleman]

Too true

[@ibsexplosion4178]

Guy at the gun store…advancements in bullet design like Federal’s HST has brought the 9mm to the level equal with 45 ACP. I pointed to the ammo shelf and said “what’s that” his reply Federal HST 45 ACP.

[@infogunvault6920]

9mm guys: modern bullet design allows 9mm hollow points to penetrate deep enough to be effective. 45 guys: You guys had to wait for modern bullet design?

[@RepentorPerish77]

@@infogunvault6920 🤣🤣🤣..but I love 9mm to. In fact most of my pistols including my edc are in 9mm. I just don’t buy into that wack a** argument from die hard 9mm guys…my home defense gun is the FNX .45 tactical b/c I have 16 rounds of hard hitters

[@ericb6390]

9mm=Faster to get back on target, less muzzle flip, more rounds to carry for multiple criminals from robbery, attacks,etc...45 vs. 9 does not really matter that much ,and velocity does not really matter until get to rifle rounds,and each one shooting good rounds will drop suspect with 1 round to torso,i love my 45's but will ALWAYS carry 9mm for carry

[@hossv1147]

Such an awesome video. I love you Karl. I really do man and really almost never go against you. But on this one I admire my .45 with a passion as many of the old timers in the old school ways I suppose. 😁 Thanks for continuing with such great content for all of us. I'm about to hit up the past videos on this duo and look forward to what you have next in store for us. Cheers bud! 🍻

[@bullfrogjay4383]

I respect 9mm and recommend new shooters start with 9mm. That being said I love the 45 and shoot it well. It is my carry choice for self defense. I understand the capacity is low and recoil may be a bit more (though I barely notice) but when I shoot things comparing the two in my back yard the 45 always does more damage and hits harder. Stuff like 2 liters, milk jugs filled with water ECT.

[@cbg482]

9mm might have 3-4 more rounds in glocks regular mags but Glock 21 can carry 14 which if u can actually shoot thats all u need you will only need 5 of those bullets from 45 acp to put someone down compared to 9mm needing more but it's all about shot placement

[@Unb3arablePain]

I think it really matters what caliber one is already invested in. Older coworker in his 50s already had multiple 1911s and a Glock 21, wanted something for carry, I suggested the Shield 45 as I've shot them and loved them, he did as well so it works. Meanwhile my deep cary is a Kahr P380 and fullsize/normal carry a 9mm G48. However, I started fresh a few years ago at 21 so 9mm made sense.

[@DavidLLambertmobile]

I'm left handed but if I used my right, right handed; I'd get a ported PC Shield 2.0 in .45acp caliber. The .45 flash might distort your front sight but Shields are for CQB range, deep concealment.

[@patrickcarney9474]

I love both,.. 9mm and 45 acp. I was navy and trained by a marine detachment for an auxiliary security force for the Navy ( glorified guards) for ships and main gate at navy bases , nothing high speed :) The marines were old school and taught us on 1911 45 acp’s ,.. I’ve been in love with the 45 ever since. I have grown fond of the 9mm as well and own plenty. They both will kill,.. I think the impact of a 45 acp is hard to argue with but I also know that a good hollow point on a fast little 9mm will tear jack up.

[@AussieInCA11]

A hollow point might expand, but a big bullet won't shrink 😂 With good bullet selection either is going to get it done. I shoot my 9mm more accurately and faster than my 45. Push comes to shove it'd be what I would pick up.

[@DavidLLambertmobile]

When you look at a bullet wound 🔬 you mainly have: shock-blunt trauma, blood loss, tissue & organ failure, damage. The PROBLEM as cadre like Massad Ayoob, Clint Smith, etc point out is many thugs or attackers don't drop dead ☠️ or stop in a second, 2 sec. Even with a solid center mass hit. The FBI protocol Tests state a LE round needs 12-18" of depth. Pass through common barriers: auto glass, fiber, sheet metal, plywood. Feed & cycle properly too.

[@thomas_jay]

"It's not going to matter if you can't shot. So make sure you get out there and get training." - Garand Thumb

[@Echo_Charlie]

Should have thrown .40 S&W into this just to make everyone upset.

[@bretaschleman8289]

The .40 is my personal favorite. Its an in between. Best of both worlds.

[@Echo_Charlie]

@@bretaschleman8289 I am a big fan of .40 as well.

[@DavidNoach65]

My personal carry. I don’t find it difficult to control, and that little extra stopping power is worth it.

[@mikethomas4628]

Sad thing is 40 is eventually gonna become hard to find eventually

[@jasonstephenson793]

Here's the thing , its not about wound cavities, its about the energy transfer & the hydro shock it creates. When talking about wound cavities, knifes, arrows, pointed sticks are way more better at creating that type of damage & yes you are more likely to die from those wounds, then form a gun shot wound. The reason projectiles are so efficient, is because it does multiple things at once, creates a wound cavity, causes damage in other organ through the body through hydro shock, 3rd & most important they disrupt the nervus system through hydro shock. transferring

[@peterroberts2952]

The way a 45 hits a steel plate compared to a 9mm says it all. 45 is king in cqb fighting. Out to distance sure the 9mm is better, then I switch to rifle, but up close within 50m, 45 hitting bone and chest, hell you dont get back from that. You may survive a few 9mm shots up close, but 45, goodbye.

[@bigwillyalex]

This makes me curious what the effect would be shooting through a barrier then into the ballistics gel, say like through a windshield. Great video!

[@jp92382]

45acp with a heavier bullet will have less deflection going through a barrier like glass

[@DavidLLambertmobile]

This was a huge selling point for the powerful .357sig round in the 1990s 2000s. State LE troopers, DPS, FAMs etc all liked the 🥊 & high vel but the muzzle flash, 💥 noise etc was a lot to deal with. Many LE officers & federal agents had .357sig pistols for years. Only until the 2010s did the 9mm +P really slide back in....

[@infogunvault6920]

It'll deform the bullets some. .45 will be better though because with a larger diameter bullet you have a stronger sidewall, than with a smaller 9mm.

[@PapaDon850]

The Glock 36 is my preferred CCW. Honestly, not as snappy as people say and it conceals very well with a IWB crossbreed holster. I practice shooting and reloads and not concerned about less capacity. Training is the best choice with whatever you choose.

[@thatoneguy454c]

I feel like the critical duty under preforms in 9mm. There are just much batter options. I understand wanting to use the same line in both handguns, just don't think I would carry it. Seems like it did extremely well in .45 acp though. It is predictable though that's for sure

[@DavidLLambertmobile]

I packed 9x19mm +P 124gr Critical Duty for a few years but in 2022, I'm moving on to Winchester PDX1 +P or Federal HST 124gr +P. Bonded is a good idea ✔️ for ccw, duty carry.

[@chrisbrown2627]

I believe he was using the 135 grain Critical Duty in 9mm. It does penetrate too much. The 124 grain Critical Duty is a better choice in that caliber. I prefer Sig Sauer V- Crown 124 grain and HST, Golden Saber, Gold Dot and PDX-1.

[@thatoneguy454c]

@@DavidLLambertmobile the critical duty line of ammunition underperforms compared to many other defensive loads that cost about the same amount of money. There are tons of tests on KZbin showing it fail to expand.

[@DTreatz]

As a great man once said: "The 9mm kills your body, but a .45....that kills your soul..." 😂

[@Uberragen21]

I heard an expert once say, "9mm will blow the lung out of your body..." I took it to heart and bought the 9mm Bazooka Joe said would end the threat!

[@DavidLLambertmobile]

The Army .45 takes no jive! ✔️

[@NotYourAverageCritic]

Quotes like these are reserved for people with no real knowledge to discuss subject matter.

[@TrollMeister-s6n]

@@NotYourAverageCritic Like you, right?

[@NotYourAverageCritic]

@@TrollMeister-s6n Nope, since you'll never hear me utter something THAT unintelligent. I'll leave that for you!!

[@echo_research_and_development]

Responding to comments here. Why is it that people say, "Countess shooting studies show that there is no difference in calibers...blah blah." rarely show the actual data? In EVERY INSTANCE when I actually look at the data they cite, in rare cases when they do reveal it, WITHOUT A SINGLE EXCEPTION, the data was either statistically weak to provide any conclusion, open to interpretation, manner of data compilation makes it useless, etc.

[@robertsears8323]

In the end I carry .45 (same critical duty) just because I like carrying a full size gun and I like the bigger hole. But I do like how the blocks show that .45 is not as useless as the kids want you to believe.

[@mcal9320]

K.E. = 1/2 m v2 Velocity is king, just like this dudes .300 vs 9mm videos. Both have about the same mass, but ines velocity is twice that of the other. Mass is halved when calculating Kenetic energy, where as Velocity is squared.

[@heatherburger1666]

This was a great video to watch. I carried both calibers and saw the pros and cons of both. I am good with the 9mm. I learned a lot from this video and it was worth my time. Thank you for taking the time to make this video!

[@TacticalRifleman]

Thanks for watching, TR

[@DavidLLambertmobile]

To me, in 2022; you get a lot from a newer JHP +P 9x19mm than a .45 caliber. I'm 51, 150-250rd of .45 FMJ will WRECK my 🖐. 9mm +P offers decent KE levels but you get 15-17-21 rounds. Plus spare mags.

[@pabloescobar7802]

People really over complicate things .. HST .. Gold Dot .. Golden Saber .. Federal Punch ... Hydrashoks .. will all more than serve the purpose of SD.. shot placement is more important than anything. Train Train Train.. and the ammo will do it’s job

[@TacticalRifleman]

Agreed

[@mikethomas4628]

Yep I run g9 through my 19m for defense and gold dot through my 43x and I’ve been training with a good group of people guys who were Marines and other service guys in a milita group. like you said train train train can’t say it enough.

[@joecentral-o9984]

Look at autopsies. Gives you a great idea.

[@warmonkey3216]

Paul Harrell explained that autopsys are wildy inconsistent depending on how qualified the medical examiner is. Which is suprisingly not that often that they are good at their jobs

[@danielwatson5595]

@@warmonkey3216 yup that was a hard punch to the face growing up. Being young you always figured the professionals were always excellent- that’s why they were professional and not just amateurs. Then you grow up and realize incompetency can be found among every aspect of human life no matter how “professional” or “official” it may seem.

[@joecentral-o9984]

@@warmonkey3216 okay then. I guess I'm a retard and don't know what I'm talking about in the slightest. Guess all that information means nothing. Probably like my friend who had to shoot a robber. Bet he doesn't know anything. Didn't claim to be Jesus spoken word. It's another venue for people to look at. What their bullets do to flesh vs gel.

[@stevendwyer7665]

All I have to say is: if the 9mm round expands perfectly, it will expand to .5 inches. The 45 acp starts at .45 inches and can expand upto .75 inches.

[@TacticalRifleman]

Too true

[@alexskillz45]

gets over 1.10 for me

[@MyThoughtsDontBelong2U]

​@@alexskillz45what round/load is that?

[@alexskillz45]

@@MyThoughtsDontBelong2U Underwood Bonded 230gr 45super 1100fps. Avg 1075 from my 4.5"

[@mv223]

@@alexskillz45 I carry HST +p .45 and it expands right under an inch, .958. Underwood and HST, good stuff.

[@robgigabyte580]

Anyone I know who has been around and has a great deal of experience, always said, "Do what you feel most comfortable. ".. Its more about who is pulling the trigger and how comfortable with their well accustomed the shooter is going to hit the target consistently. A .22 cal can kill with the right shot. Me I'm a 1911 .45 ACP, it's what I'm used to and comfy with.

[@tonyhull9427]

“Or a death row inmate…” 😂 I think that’s a great idea! You can perform all kinds of ballistic tests with that i.e. knees, crotch, stomach, etc. Love this channel!

[@silencia08]

Japanese Samurais and Sword Smiths used to test their Katanas on convicts. Sometimes the old ways are best.

[@ramonanzures9780]

Should be mandatory on child predators

[@gunsandcars3648]

this is exactly as expected, ball is for penetration and military use, critical duty some retention and penetration, hollow point and critical defense will expand and drop all energy in target. I still choose .45 over 9mm even though you usually get more ammo in 9mm pistol.

[@MrSmith-zy2bp]

I love both calibers. HK45 is my nightstand gun and P30 for carry.

[@007Chancellor]

GREAT content. Subbed. I'm in the .45 camp - have been for decades ( I spose that makes me an old Fudd lol). But I sometimes carry a 9mm when I need sub-compact concealability. Yes, the .45 is superior. But either round will generally get the job done.

[@nickdial8528]

It's funny people think somehow that would make you an old fud, considering the 9mm came out in 1901, before the 45

[@007Chancellor]

@@nickdial8528 Right!?!?!? 🤣🙄

[@Central_KY_Prepper1]

Can you do a comparison of 357 SIG and 10mm? Thanks

[@TacticalRifleman]

Possibly… but I don’t have the 357sig

[@Central_KY_Prepper1]

@@TacticalRifleman Thanks. Hopefully one will show up. If it’s the P250 might add a .40 to the comparison since it came with the .40 barrel to swap it with.

[@Central_KY_Prepper1]

@@TacticalRifleman And looks like you have a scammer replying to comments.

[@Valorius]

This is the first one of your videos KZbin has put in my feed in months

[@TacticalRifleman]

Hopefully they will start promoting us again

[@Valorius]

@@TacticalRifleman it's not just you brother. Even though my channel is tiny, I was getting decent views. I put an AR video up last week and my traffic has been totally shut down ever since.

[@Uberragen21]

I heard an expert once say, "9mm will blow the lung out of your body..." I took it to heart and bought the 9mm Bazooka Joe said would end the threat! 😂😂

[@whiterabit09]

The only (known) president to shit himself in front of the pope.

[@bjbrick1]

That 9mm lung remark has to be one of the dumbest presidential statements in my lifetime. And JFK was in the WH when I was born. (I had the hardest time finding words to say what I meant without using some variation of stupid 3 times in the same sentence)

[@tonyparrish2063]

I have been carrying a 1911 on the AZ/Mexico border for more than 31years, my agency still has numerous Colt and Kimber 1911s in the field, I still carry my 1911 to this day, it has saved my bacon more than once, I also carried this weapon while I was a SWAT operator for 10 years, and used the 45 ACP in my sub-gun H&K UMP-45, I am a firm believer in the 45 ACP and probably will never change, yes I have mastered this round to include my off duty Springfield Ultra compact 45, I have no regrets carrying this caliber or these weapons. God bless stay safe.. Tony Parrish... Cochise County AZ BTW we carry the Speed Gold Dot

[@TacticalRifleman]

Thank you for your service. TR

[@tonyparrish2063]

@@TacticalRifleman thank you for your service, several years ago before the Obama administration, LE were allowed to train with the Military, I was one who had the distinct privilege to train with 3 different military units, and I can tell you first hand that the CQB training and other training has helped me and the other operators in the field along the border...and in alot of our various cities...you guys are top notch in all you do...thank you again brother for all you and your warriors and families have sacrificed for this great country.....Tony

[@SunTzu119]

Thank you for the fact and performance based analysis. Too bad you ran out of "death row inmates" That shit is hilarious 😆🤣

[@ryanhartley5737]

I own and carry both. I also carry 5.7x28, .357 Magnum/.38 Special, and OCCASIONALLY even .22 LR (mostly as a kit gun when fishing), with plans of adding a 10mm to the collection. I find diversifying is the best hedge against ammo shortages. Caliber debates are stupid. It's what you are comfortable and proficient with that's important. I will note I prefer .45 ACP as a suppressor host, as subsonic 9mm is still what I would consider a "specialty round" in my locale. Just my two cents. (edit for spelling)

[@DavidLLambertmobile]

Some people chose to shoot 10mm, .38spl, .22WMR, .380acp, 9mm, .40, .45acp, .357magnum etc for many valid reasons. I vary the guns & styles I use but 80-90% of the time, I use 9mm +P or a .40S&W. I got a .357sig KKM barrel for my M&Ps but honestly the "juice ain't worth the squeeze" 🍊 in 2022, compared to .40 or 9mm. 10mm caliber pistols have merit but I'm not in a rush to buy any. PS: I owned a new Glock 20 gen 4 grey model; 2016-2018. 0 problems, robust ccw gun. ✅️

[@Valorius]

Greg Ellefritz decades long study of thousands of defensive shootings shows that in the real world there is no significant statistical difference between any of the duty calibers, and that includes 380. However, 357 Magnum does hold a small statistical advantage over all other calibers.

[@echo_research_and_development]

Show data from the thousands of shooting data.

[@Valorius]

@@echo_research_and_development I told you the man's name why don't you go ahead and find the study on your own time?

[@echo_research_and_development]

@@Valorius It is the role of the person making the assertion to provide proof.

[@Valorius]

@@echo_research_and_development Time for a rude awakening. The data exists. It is there for people who wish to use it. I do not care if you choose to or not. I am under no obligation to you whatsoever. Seek it out or don't. The choice is yours.

[@moscasucio1686]

Stats dont give the whole picture. Talk to an ER nurse, ER doctor that work at Stroger Hospital Chicago.

[@nealfry2230]

Fortunately I have all calibers.

[@EricTheRed_4]

Excellent demo of these two rounds Carl. Running hollow point in 45 is the only way to go. 9mm is an “easier” round to shoot and I think better for EDC… 45 isn’t for everyone but it does the job a little better.

[@Passportbro33Mark2]

This is what I tell people all the time! The 9 mm with modern day ammo is only as good as 45 ball ammo! When you put modern bullet up against modern bullet, the 45 is the clear winner! That extra half a second you get with faster follow-up shots don’t mean shit if the rounds aren’t effective.

[@Mbartel500]

Two suggestions: 1. For testing, you need two gel blocks. You don't know how far that 9mm round would have penetrated. It might have only penetrated 17” of gel, but without the second block, you don't know if there was excessive penetration or not. 2. You need a clothing barrier in front of the gel. Very few attackers will be naked or topless, so in a real world self defense situation, at least one layer of clothing will likely have to be penetrated by the bullet. 4 layers is the standard protocol for getting a worst case clothing barrier.

[@MidwestPicker]

That block hit with multiple .45's said, "I'm getting the hell off this table"

[@EastCoastMan603]

Thank you Karl, all the best to you and yours. 🇺🇸

[@TacticalRifleman]

Thanks

[@normvw4053]

Both of these cartridges are in the same power class. What the 45 ACP accomplishes with mass, the 9 mm accomplishes with velocity, for the standard bullet loads, 230 grain for the 45, 115 grain for the 9 mm Lugar. Both are leathal with proper bullet placement. And shooting tight groups with a pistol does not make it more leathal, two or more impacts spread over the torso is actually is better for stopping an opponent. Unless you get a central nervous hit on the first shot.

[@Rif_Leman]

Excellence in training, ammo, and pistol are necessary to make adequate performance in a fight more likely. If your pistol cannot produce tight groups on the range when you have plenty of time to break the shot, it will not produce adequate accuracy when you are under duress. Then again, I could be wrong.

[@normvw4053]

@@Rif_Leman Again, I think it would be more effective to spread out one's shots, more damage spread over a wider area, say, two or three shots spread over center mass would cause more tissue and shock damage, thus dropping your opponent quicker.

[@Jace8637]

Those full sized barrels help it over penetrate as well.

[@VincitOmniaVeritas7]

Have both, love both. But there’s no denial the 9x19mm is inherently more accurate. I have quality 1911s in both cartridges and I’m able to make cloverleaf groups with the 9x19mm that seems impossible with the .45acp. With modern bullets that allow reliable expansion, there isn’t a lot of advantage for a .45 acp these days. Not to mention capacity. When shit hits the fan, 7 rounds go faster than you can realize.

[@bentaylor4845]

9 quick misses one 45

[@Rif_Leman]

My HK-USP-45 has a 12+1 capacity. And thanks to Karl and Imri, I am a far more competent shooter with it and my magazine changing skills are now respectable. If you can, get formal and competent training. Karl and Imri are excellent combat pistol instructors. I consider the fee for taking Karl's pistol classes money very well spent.

[@VincitOmniaVeritas7]

@@Rif_Leman thanks. Have you ever tried the FNX 45? It doesn’t feel as big in the hand as a 2011 despite having a 15+1 capacity. I would buy one if not for the location of the safety/decocker that kept blooding my thumb. I heard the striker fired FN 545 is as good if not better in some aspects. Colion Noir made a recent video comparing both of them. You should check it out as it seems you like polymer framed pistols in .45 acp. I’ve fell in love with the 10mm recently (Glock G40 on an Alaskan holster as a backup for hunting) and would consider carrying a FN 510 for defense if I were to move to the bigger bullets. Cheers.

[@echevarriawilson]

I love the 45 1911. It's a great combat round. I also feel no difference between the 45 and the 10mm. It's also a great round.

[@user-zv2eu1vj4l]

That’s because the typical 10mm loads from the major manufacturers are loaded to LOWER chamber pressures on par with standard-pressure .45 ACP.

[@michaeljohnson6019]

Hello gentlemen hope everyone's doing well. I'd say that either one would probably be much more effective than nothing at all. So carry, even if it's a knife. Smile.

[@aol328]

9 vs .45 or .45 vs 9. In the end practice makes perfect. Although I carry a Gen III G19, I plan on purchasing a .45 soon to have both. Great Video Karl and thank you for your service. The way I see it in the video, proof is in the pudding. Look how much the gel block moved in the string of shots with the .45 vs the 9. After all, it did help us win 2 world wars...JMO!

[@bencheng4540]

Great video! Since most people don’t EDC G21; it would be great if you do a follow up video with a Glock 30.

[@mikes8915]

I agree the 30 is my EDC with 185 grn +p golden Sabres.

[@phillhuddleston9445]

@@mikes8915 I carry the same ammo but I didn't think it was still available do you know if it is? It's been a while since I ordered any, probably over a year.

[@mikes8915]

@@phillhuddleston9445 I'm not sure. I had boxes of it from a while back. I know they have the new golden Sabres bonded floating around

[@Dennisthemenace40]

All handgun calibers are a compromise to convenience. Yes, a 45, 357 or 10mm will give superior terminal performance to a 9mm but there’s more to it than that. Decide what’s important (honestly) and practice as often as possible to be as effective as possible. My personal choice is the 40 S&W using Underwood’s 100 gr Extreme Defender.

[@alericc1889]

The .45 was PUSHING the block off the table, while the 9mm had minimal effect....

[@sterlingcampbell2116]

Not that momentum alone is the only factor in lethality...

[@observo-escucho-analizo6750]

Let's stop swimming in circles deciding which caliber is best and for what... The equation is solved by having several pistols of various brands: Strikers and 2011... and of various types of calibers. And instead of concentrating on causing harm... we better concentrate on doing good to others. Let's not lose our north... which is love for our neighbor.

[@HarborSite-7]

Good stuff here Karl. I don't think this debate will ever be solved to the satisfaction of everyone. But solid, consistent testing like this gives us all the ability to decide what will work best for us as individual gun owners. I know it reinforced the way I feel and I'll keep using my Glock 19 for my EDC. I use Speer Gold Dot 124 grain +P JHP for my carry/self defense ammo because it has consistent velocity, seems to keep over penetration to a minimum, expands well and is reasonably priced. Thanks for all of the great content you and your crew post on your channel. It's definitely one of my favorites. 🙏🇺🇸

[@patrickjones6059]

9mm is lower cost per round and easier to find in gun stores.

[@thehappyclam3942]

Never in the history of military handgun cartridges has there ever been such an overrated yet underperforming caliber as the 9mm. The 45 American combat pistol doesn't shrink, sometimes expands and has enough energy to stop a rabid bear from ruining your picnic.

[@NeverDoubtMe23]

I have a lot of respect for Massad Ayoob and agree with him: 9mm for warm weather carry (late spring/all summer/early fall) and 45acp for cold weather. No matter how great an HP is designed, a lot of clothes on your attacker = clogged HP which usually = fail to expand. I would rather have a 45acp fail to expand than a 9mm.

[@Patriotusa44]

Is it bad to say I'm a fan of the 7.62x25? I do like 9mm though. I used to think less about the 9mm years ago but after researching real life studies about the different calibers and how well they did in real shootings, I have come around. The major calibers pretty much came out even. Therefore I want more ammo onboard. Who knows when you could need those extra rounds. I plan on scoring a Beretta 92 sometime in the future.

[@bentaylor4845]

I want a 7.62x25 so bad I can't stand it but I'm Married and she thinks her nails are more important . But I'm working on that

[@jeffcooper9363]

I've got a Glock 21, and there is NO way I will carry concealed with that boat anchor . It does have a place of honor on my BB however. ; D Thanks Karl, great stuff as always.

[@thomaspalmer7900]

I own a carry a Glock G21 as my EDC. In comparison to carrying a 1911 @ 48 ounces carrying a G21 @ 36 ounces is much easier.

[@590DM]

I carry my g21🤫🤫🤫

[@leeadams5941]

Retired USMC, been carrying a .45 for 40+ years, if it ain't broke, don't fix it

[@TacticalRifleman]

I have a 76 Chevy pickup that still runs.

[@johnmassey2309]

.45 produces greater effect on the target. The old timers used that standard when they did the HRU training. We shot thousands of rounds through those 1911s but we couldn't give the enemy a chance to react.

[@dennisl4000]

Thanks for the video. To me energy is only meaningful regarding how it translates to penetration and expansion, hence the permanent wound channel. Given that penetration meets the 12" to 18" standard. The 9mm has several distinct benefits aside from performance; capacity, less cost of ammo for practice, and less shooting stress. And yes, folks like Wilson, Hackathorn, etc. freely admit that shooting many 45 rounds over the years has taken its toll. At the end of the day, this is one argument that will never be resolved. More importantly I feel is shot placement and selection of ammo that demonstrates consistent performance.

[@papimaximus95]

"At the end of the day, this is one argument that will never be resolved." The debate is over. The masses have spoken and selected 9mm. There are plenty of dead guys from 9mm.

[@The_Conspiracy_Analyst]

9mm is obsolete now that there's .30 Super Carry! It does everything 9mm does, but BETTER

[@user-zv2eu1vj4l]

The .30 Super Carry CARTRIDGE is a 100-grain .312 (in.)/7.925mm bullet with a max chamber pressure of 40k psi. It is identical to the 7.65mm French Long cartridge. If used in a 9x19mm Parabellum handgun, the magazine may allow for more rounds. The cartridge case is 21mm; longer than the 9mm Parabellum’s case of 19mm. The bullet 50 thousandths of an inch smaller than the 9mm. The nominee velocity of this load is specified at 1250 fps from a 4-inch barrel. What is concerning is the high chamber pressure needed to propel the bullet. The higher the chamber pressure, the greater the recoil and the more battering that the pistol will endure. Paper specifications look good, but hardly makes the 9x19mm Parabellum “obsolete” since so so much R&D has been done on the older cartridge. Federal seems to be the only major offering it. Moreover, I believe only Smith & Wesson and Highpoint offer firearms that chamber this new cartridge. Additionally, there is virtually NO empirical data to support the obsolescence of the 9x19mm Parabellum.

[@craigthescott5074]

Worked as a street cop in a major metropolitan city for 33 years. Saw a guy shot 8 times with a 380 live. Saw a guy shot in the back of the head with a 9mm live. Everybody I saw shot with a 45 left in a body bag. If all things are equal shot placement is everything but I still think the 45 edges out the 9mm in terminal performance.

[@MDR-hn2yz]

Bottom line: with proper shot placement and quality ammo, both are good.

[@michaelosteen3423]

Thanks for another outstanding video. I hear a lot of people refer to reports done on shooting statistics that say that there is no appreciable difference in lethality between handgun cartridges. If that is so, why not switch to something even easier to shoot like .380 or even .32ACP? Why not 22LR? Is it because 9mm is a little more effective than .380? If .45ACP is even marginally more effective than 9mm, in a life or death situation, doesn't that count for something? Everything in life is a compromise. If you shoot .45ACP better than 9mm, and many people do, go for it.

[@doejohn8674]

Many rounds can be lethal, but you want something that stops a fight quickly, dying can take time, time where the enemy shoots back at you while he is dying.

[@cavalieroutdoors6036]

I don't know that I shoot .45 better than 9mm. From a technical standpoint I shoot the 2 more or less equally. Similar splits, and similar accuracy at similar distances. But there's no 2 ways about it, big bore pistol makes a big bore hole, and that may not always make a difference but there's always the possibility that a bigger hole doing more damage will tilt the odds in your favor in a fight.

[@Wizop]

10mm. That’s the king. 10mm all day. Favorite handgun caliber. G29 all day. Waiting on s&w to make a shield in 10mm same as the 45. That would be nice edc

[@msb6630]

9mm seems great for personal protection if your target is considerate enough to hold very still for repeated hits after the first bullet strikes. But, how often does that happen? Also, one possible benefit I have never heard discussed in favor of the .45 bullet is that, being bigger, it has the effect of making all of the bad guy's vitals and bones a bit larger and more likely to take a hit. Put another way, on the things you really want to hit inside the human body, a very close miss with a 9mm could have been a good hit with a .45.

[@TacticalRifleman]

The size difference (diameter) doesn't really increase your chance of hits, but I understand your point. A better point is that the 45 has a larger permanent wound channel; which equates to quick loss of blood. However, that too doesn't really matter AS MUCH as people would like to believe. Reality is that muscle bleeds very little; it takes the compromise of blood vessels. Yes, a 45 hole is larger, but the blood is only going to flow at the rate the heart is pumping it out the compromised vessel. If doesn't matter if it is pouring out a entry wound or pouring into his abdomen; it flows at the rate of the heart and vessel compromised. Thanks for watching, TR.

[@DB-yj3qc]

Thanks for the unvarnished demonstration comparing as close to like firearms and ammo. I will bookmark and share this video with a few buddies and friends. As a former soldier that has carried both in combat and as EDC. My first personal owned handgun was 9mm steel frame then later a few 1911s and more 9mm handguns that moved to polymers handguns later starting with 45 ACP the 9mm. I've recommended Glock's to many not because it's the best handgun but dependable and consistency. That situation was proven to myself and long time friend and veteran last week with his high end 1911 failure to fire x2 times my 20 plus year old G19 and JHP 9 ammo worked. Just a few weeks before I had the same one under water out riding 4wheelers drained and change magazine 100% reliable. My preference now is the Sig 320s/ M17 or M18, but at $50 for magazines.

[@jasondubois3399]

Hollow points are wonderful little creatures. Chris Baker over at Lucky Gunner has done a lot of excellent testing or pretty much every respectable self defense round. And according to the data he collected, when a good 9mm hollow point is fully finished expanding, it generally becomes between a 40 to 50 caliber bullet on average, while a good45 generally becomes a 60 to 70 caliber bullet on average. Yet as great and amazing as hollow points are, they are still not yet 100% reliable. Their performance is entirely velocity dependent. If your premium self defense ammo that was calibrated to be shot out of a pistol with a 5” barrel doesn’t achieve enough velocity out of your sub compact 2.5” carry gun, then that bullet may fail to expand. If your bullet does achieve enough velocity at the muzzle, but just barely, then it may actually lose enough velocity by the time that it reaches the target if the target is a significant distance away (see Eli Dicken and his 43 yard shot in the Greenwood Park mall incident) that it may fall below the expansion envelope. As was alluded to in this video, a hollow point my become clogged with clothing fibers or drywall or anything else, causing it to behave like an fmj. There could be some kind of manufacturing defect in the round itself, such as a light powder charge. My point is that there are a thousand and one variables affecting hollow points proformance that are entirely out of our control. And even though I fully expect my ammo to expand exactly the way it’s supposed to, it brings me some comfort knowing that even if for some stupid reason, my ammo *dosent* behave the way it’s supposed to, that I’m STILL punching a hole that falls right in the middle of what you would expect from fully expanded 9mm.