A 260 Hour Trial: La-Mulana, No Guides

[@Rhihad]

Well, this is basically the true La-Mulana experience if you don't use guides. All the respect to you and others who bother with the game. I haven't personally experienced any other game being as rewarding as La-Mulana when you finally get further after being stuck for god knows how many hours. My initial playthrough was around 140 hours, there were a few parts that got spoiled for me, but was glad to mostly go through solo. Excellent video and hope you enjoy La-Mulana 2 as much as the first one!

[@MM-bm5zx]

Ironically this video just saved me a purchase. Was about to buy the PS4 version thinking it was a straight-up Metroidvania and after watching this video, no thanks lol

[@sigurdtheblue]

Frustrating puzzles are a pain, but the game is really cool. I do not like multiple things about this type of game, but La-Mulana made me care because of how everything is integrated in the story. But La-Mulana 1 is a little too harsh while La-Mulana 2 has a lot better storytelling and fairer puzzles.

[@GlennMagusHarvey]

It's definitely a metroidvania (and specifically one that takes after Maze of Galious -- there are rather few metroidvanias in this lineage; the only others I know of being Unepic and Ghost 1.0/Mini Ghost). But this game is very hardcore about the riddles/puzzles. You really do play an adventure archaeologist, with the "archaeologist" part not being just for show but really integrated into the gameplay experience. (Possibly more archaeology than Indiana Jones ever did!) I definitely love the game, but I recommend playing it with the following: 1. Reading the manual, first of all. (I like to joke "La-Mulana...more like La-Manual, amirite?" because there's some very useful info there.) 2. An understanding that you will need to do more than just explore for dead ends and plot advancement items, as you'll need to be very observant of details and clues and curious to learn about the lore. Perhaps not quite as observant as this guy has been (he's overdone it, but to his credit his work is stunningly good). 3. Some friends, who are patient enough to sit through the epic journey with you. And preferably, at least one who *has* played the game and can give you hints when the game gets a little unintuitive (which it occasionally does), and preferably also some tips to help make the early game a little smoother so you can ease into a state where you actually can reasonably smoothly go around places and explore to your leisure when a big chunk of the game opens up in early-mid-game.

[@mastergame1311]

This is why I believe La-Mulana is a game that is best experienced with possibly few hints from others players - everyone gets stuck in different places and spending dozens of hours cluelessly wandering around is simply not fun.

[@robinsonnox9980]

Another route to go about is playing the game blind but with pals. About a year ago I know there was a couple groups of people that played through FEZ but as a group, sharing hints and advice

[@mastergame1311]

@@robinsonnox9980 Definitely sounds like a good time. I will consider this approach when recommending such games to others.

[@jmv333]

Here from Dosh Doshington's channel, really love this vid! Especially how you detail the process, such an awesome achievement, an excellent video!!!

[@BrazenScull]

This video’s great but the brief spoiler about going down the pot LITERALLY just solved the problem I was having with the game when I quit, all those years ago. You’ve taken the magic of discovering that one solution away from me, you monster.

[@petroslazanis8466]

Going through this game with my friends now. We agreed to all share hints and stuff with each other on a google doc, but no looking up walkthroughs or anything online on our own. So far we are completely fucking lost just an hour in haha. Edit: had to stop watching this video to avoid spoilers and solutions. Will come back later hehe.

[@Nat_the_Chicken]

How did it go? How far did you guys make it? Did you manage to beat it? I played through it over the last several months while on call with a single friend (who's an expert on the game) for the entirety of each play session. We figured it would be more fun for me if he could give me subtle hints and clues when I was stuck as well as suggestions about how to approach bosses. It still took me about 80 hours but I had a blast. I'm really curious to see how your shared puzzling experience compares to that.

[@erfaniom9576]

update?

[@ShawnBlaque]

Did La Mulana get you bro??

[@MetaBinding]

Some say he's still stuck on a puzzle to this day.

[@The8bitFighter]

The collective shame of failing as a group -- now THAT is some true La-Mulana experience. My hats off to you and the lads.

[@ZuoKalp]

After many years, after many "new game", after a sequel, after many ports, after many times purchasing many ports (even twice on PC, by Steam and later GOG), after I purchased a Vita and a physical copy of the game, after hundreds of hours of playtime AND MOST IMPORTANTLY AFTER NEVER EVER USING A GUIDE, I still haven't finished the game, and I still love it like the first day. I'm not ashamed at all from being a masochist.

[@sigurdtheblue]

I think the game is a lot less masochistic if you restart at least, so you are doing something right. I, on the other hand, probably did not restart the game until I beat it, so I was boring myself to death.

[@GlennMagusHarvey]

@@sigurdtheblue There are definitely some "missable" things (shortcuts and even items) that, while not critical to beating the game, are definitely helpful and can be "fixed" by starting a fresh file.

[@Akirasip]

1) Use a guide 2) Finish the game 3) Be free from your prison 4) $$$

[@ShawnBlaque]

I was watching a review for the game and the guy mentioned your insane journey to beat it. Hearing your actual story is even crazier lol good job man

[@legrandliseurtri7495]

I was stuck in the tower of goddess for about 2 hours before looking up a guide. I solved it on my own once I was told what hint tablet was useful for this puzzle, I can't imagine how awful it must have been to be stuck there for so damn long. I just got past the 70 hours mark in this game. I went from having no help at all to slowly using the steam hint guide by Cheshire more and more. My desire to experience all of the content has become more important to me than solving every puzzle on my own. I do still solve a number of them without help(a recent example is finding the ankh jewel in chamber of birth) and I try to explore a bunch of possibilities when I'm stuck, but when I feel like something seems too arbitrary, I'll simply look at what seems like a relevant hint on the guide.

[@DonYagamoth]

This is a really neat retelling, thank you for sharing your story. I know I'm about 5 years late, but I still appreciate your video :)

[@Meganarb]

Saw this in DoshDoshington's video, very glad he shouted this vid out!

[@OldyAlbert]

Fist of all - you're legend, now to the topic. Big problem with puzzle games like that is that you don't really know where to look. It's not that you can't be more thorough, it's that you don't know where to be more thorough at. It'd be cool for La-Mulana to have some system that gives you clues of roughly where to look, though it's hard to balance and alot of work to be made for a game like that. In games like Steven's roll or Witness puzzles are more isolated, but with each unlocked room and zone in La-Mulana - it adds to complexicy of each yet unsovled game's puzzle, wich makes it insane after a while. But if i can stuck for hours in old adventure games - i'm sure as hell will get stuck in something like La-Mulana. Still - it's one of a kind game. On one hand if you look at La-Mulana puzzle-design as a game - yeah, it's kinda realisticly unplayable without at least some help, but if you see at it as like - magical ruins that have no obligation to you as an foreign explorer to be understandable and realisticly solvable - it elevates La-Mulana to my fav game of all time. If you're glutton for punishment there's a game called Environmental Station Alpha - a game with fist half being metroid-clone and second half being more a La-Mulana type cryptic puzzle exploration that is clearly designed to be solved collectivly, some stuff in there is nuts. It's creator clearly took inspirations from La-Mulana, but it's also just a very pleasant game to play, if you don't mind it's low resolution pixel-art. PS. La-Mulana 2 sould be comming out this year, i'm hyped

[@robinsonnox9980]

I agree with you on the parts that La-Mulana being so wide open is part of the appeal because its forces you to write down notes on everything. As for the problem with the solutions to puzzles being nowhere the player thinks to look, I hope in the sequel the devs give more hints on locations of stuff. As for Environmental Station Alpha, I've played that game to completion including all that puzzle stuff. I like that game too for all of the big puzzle post-game stuff. That game might have my favourite "post-game"!

[@treehann]

Apparently I forgot I already watched this but I love this video, it comes off as a well-edited self reflection, a neutral review of the game, and a nice showing of what cryptic games have to offer (all the physical notetaking and such). Thanks for making it!

[@albertwong4516]

This is insane bro... I killed the flying fish boss without guides, then it got impossible. Loved the game but the difficulty spike was ridiculous. great video.

[@JesusMorales-cx8vv]

This looks like the perfect place to share my experience with the game so here I go. Yes, La mulana is insane in almost every way, I played it when I was a teenager in the Wii and oh boy, did I got stuck quickly, after the first 2 bosses if I remember I just couldn't find ANY way to advance, I was just seeing so many floors, so many places were I couldn't go, and didn't know when nor how it would become accessible. Additionally, the language was another barrier for me, English isn't my first language so seeing so many tables and not knowing what exactly says is just brutal, I only realized halfway through my run that I accidentally activated the hard mode at the start. But, lucky for me, there was a guide in Spanish that explained everything necessary to beat the game, but not in a step by step case, more like a diary written by the protagonist as he narrates his adventures that explained just enough about what to do, but didn't gave you the answer to the puzzles, a pretty great and charming guide. And I almost manage to beat the game with just that but by the endgame the puzzles became so absurd, so incredibly complex with so many details scattered thorough all the tables in all the multiple dungeons (plus, hard mode bosses), that I just gave up and started seeing any guide in KZbin and repeating step by step just to advance a little bit and hopefully, not get stuck again, needless to say, I got stuck immediately after. Anyways, lots of trial an error, frustration with hard mode, farming, etc. I finally beat it, what a joy to beat the final boss, escape with time limit and see the credits roll. Definitely the game is something else, not without his flaws, but was a great experience.

[@robinsonnox9980]

"But, lucky for me, there was a guide in Spanish that explained everything necessary to beat the game, but not in a step by step case, more like a diary written by the protagonist as he narrates his adventures that explained just enough about what to do, but didn't gave you the answer to the puzzles, a pretty great and charming guide." That guide sounds pretty cool. Whenever people ask me for hints I try to put a little pizazz into it instead of just outright telling them what to do.

[@JesusMorales-cx8vv]

It was really great, pretty much the writer roleplaying as the protagonist, He even explained all the reasonings behind the puzzle of the gems to obtain the flail whip with notes from his notebooks with all the calculations and stuff, a truly dedicated fan.

[@GlennMagusHarvey]

@@JesusMorales-cx8vv Can you link this guide? (Not sure how much links are allowed on KZbin comments...) I'd like to read it!

[@ElrondHubbard1]

The title of this video is why I am going finally buy this game. I need a break from 30 odd dungeons in Shiren 5. I know this game is very different but bashing my head against a wall for a couple hundred hours is SOOOO my jam.

[@XionSteel]

older video but this one keeps popping up in my feed... but yeah, its the type of game where you get a bunch of items and need to figure out exactly where those items get used. It is possible to go in completely blind and not taking notes, while stumbling around and getting through the first 4 bosses without much trouble. Its when you hit the gate of illusion where you have to do a metric ton of required back tracking, and once you get to the tower of the goddess solutions are so far and few in between that you start to give up your blind run. This is where my wall ended up being, since i did my run going off memory from watching a let's play from deceased crab on the og la-mulana 16 years ago and the remake 11 years ago. Needless to say it was sparse at best but i ended up surprising myself with how much i got done with that alone.

[@Flameshadow22]

I legit just discovered the pot warp solution in this video. Man, I'd read the in-game hints about that one a dozen times, but I could not wrap my head around that solution. This game often requires some huge leaps of logic with really vague hints

[@Shinichi030]

I played the original before the remake even came out and needless to say it helped severely with those harder riddles but not all of them its an experience through both versions a truly fun and satisfying game.

[@RegularBeico]

This is a great video. Nice work! Now to do it all again in the sequel.

[@artey6671]

Hey. Here is roughly what happened. A few months ago I beat La-Mulana, by which I mean the original freeware version. Of course, I had to resort to a guide eventually and later I was just playing on tracks and following instructions. I also saw your video at about that time, although I only watched it just now. A few days ago I started playing the remake and set myself the goal of beating it without a guide. Since I still knew the solutions to many puzzles of the original, I actually considered that to be a possibility. As you can tell, I was far from successful. Like you, I also didn't know how to flood the tower. I knew that the pot in the mausoleum was important, but going into it to be teleported is insane. You can hit the thing at 7:54 from outside that part, but it won't count, so I thought I needed a different weapon. Anyway, the other puzzle that got me stuck was getting the fruit of eden. Of course, the gate of illusion would have killed my run if I had made it there. After about 26 hours of playtime, I gave up. So yeah, it kind of sucks. It's not just that I failed to beat this game despite having a lot of knowledge about it. For me, it's a failure on a personal level. I care a lot about the ability to think critically and analytically. Likewise, I have a hard time giving up because I don't want to accept defeat. I study maths, where that mindset is basically mandatory. But apparently I'm not nearly good enough and I don't know what to do about it. I think I've started to play SpaceChem in 2015 and beat it in 2019, but that's child's play compared to La-Mulana. If you didn't make this video, I may have just concluded that the developers made an impossible game that no one has a chance of beating without guidance, but that's not the case. I hate to admit it, but your perseverance and problem solving skills far outclass mine. And since I've given up and used a guide, this failure will stick with me. I'm demoralised.

[@Ignawesome]

Dude... what an ordeal

[@sigurdtheblue]

After playing La Mulana 2, having beaten most of La-Mulana 1 without a guide (but not really knowing how I ended up doing certain things), I wonder if La-Mulana 1 suffered from bad translation. I think maybe Playism's translation standards are not too high and they did not realize how important it was for this game. Additionally, La-Mulana 2 was based on a Kickstarter and it had playtesters very soon after the campaign finished. I think the playtesters probably are the only reason why La-Mulana 2 got such clear translation and more obvious hints in general. The game actually spells stuff out for you, unlike the first. In some ways, that makes it feel less unique, but I honestly do not care and sometimes I feel more stuck in La-Mulana 2 than I did in 1 despite all of my experience (but I did forget pretty much everything except general ideas in La-Mulana 1). The only part of La-Mulana 1 I know I did not figure out was in the Mausoleum of the Giants, where you have to do something that is not going to come across almost anyone's mind, unless it was in a hint, but well disguised. In La-Mulana 2, I have gotten really stuck on things that are supposed to be obvious. It took me a really long time to get the gloves. It also took me really long to solve a more obvious puzzle with the rolling shuriken than the first one I solved (even before getting to access rolling shuriken). Mantra puzzles are the worst, but I am glad they were littered throughout La-Mulana 2 and feel like more of a proper mechanic, than in La-Mulana 1, where they solve like 3 things despite having a really complicated system implemented for them.

[@sigurdtheblue]

Oh yeah, and my play file when I beat the game read around 20 hours and my steam profile was probably just hitting 100 hours when I beat the game, but then I got over 300 hours doing Time Attack Expert. That is a really insane challenge, but it is the most entertaining part of the game, in my opinion. La-Mulana non-remade had much more unfair bosses, while this game did a really good job designing the bosses and it is like another level of puzzle solving. However, some seem to be truly unbeatable.

[@uba754]

Great story man, huge credit to you and your immense patience!

[@robinsonnox9980]

Thanks a lot!

[@GlennMagusHarvey]

I've been playing this game with minimal help (only very light external hints) plus my distant memory of the original game, and I'm probably within a few hours of beating a first-time playthrough of the remake. I beat the original version of La-Mulana probably sometime around 2005, following DeceasedCrab's Let's Play (of the original, of course). That said, the remake does change quite a number of things, and my memory of some other things was fuzzy, so...I decided to try it with only the game's in-game clues and my memory of the old game, without external guides or hints. I don't remember how long my playthrough of the first game was, but according to my save files on the remake, I had two "false starts" like you did. My first was in 2013 when I spent an hour and a half, probably shortly after getting the game, just to check it out a little bit but without commitment. Later, in 2015-2016, I made a more serious effort, and played with some friends at times, spending a little over 9 hours on that attempt. Then, one day, after having mentioned the game to friends quite a lot over the years, I decided to stream it to a friend so that we could go on the journey together. Starting in 2019, I got through parts of the early game relatively easily, knowing what to do already, then put it down for unrelated reasons in early 2020 around the time the pandemic hit. A month or two ago, I picked it up again, intending to finish it. Another friend joined us, who did beat the remake before and occasionally offered me a few light hints. I have just over 36 hours on this file, and I expect to finish with around 40. My total runtime on the remake (which includes some non-playtime, such as waiting for friends to watch my stream) is similarly closing in on 90 hours. [game spoilers below] I found that I got majorly stuck at the same two places that you highlighted -- flooding the Tower of the Goddess (like you I thought I needed the Lamp of Time at that point), and unlocking much of the Chamber of Birth. In fact, I was stuck on that first roadblock when I put down the game in early 2020. And it was pretty much for the same reason as you highlighted -- and my memory failed me here since I think the solution is the same in the orignal. The second roadblock, meanwhile, occurred largely due to my lack of experience/expectation for the "held item" feature -- which is entirely new to the remake, and extensively used late-game in puzzles around the time the Chamber of Birth becomes accessible, while barely used at all before that. (In the original, all the held items were regular items alongside the other items, and puzzles that now require holding them up were different.) I also had a number of silly moments, such as...failing to notice a root-shaped ladder, or failing to start the plane with my key. Thanks for posting this video. Also, props for using LibreOffice!

[@mysterypersonthing8885]

Nice titling of chapter two! Double/triple meanings are really worth a giggle. "All of that hard work... didn't pay off!"-Perfect comedic timing, imo.

[@LavaCanyon]

I gave up pretty early on, Around the Eden puzzles in Temple of Moonlight. Using brute force I did manage to get to Viy without getting the Feather jump(You can get to the top area of Tower of Ruin by getting hit in the air, switching your direction) But I didn't bother to check anything after that boss. I ended up using guides till I won. In my defense when I heard of the game, I didn't expect it to be a puzzle game so it took me for a spin.

[@Nat_the_Chicken]

I don't think you need to defend yourself for that lol

[@mysterypersonthing8885]

Gosh... I was putting this video off because I thought it was just 260 hours of footage. I wish I hadn't!

[@Psychopatrick88]

I love this game, but yeah, I had to use a guide. I got fairly far. I think like... 4 bosses in. The puzzle that stumped me was the Gate of Illusion puzzle. That damn riddle tablet had me confused for hours before I finally gave up and saw the solution. I was super annoyed with it. But as much frustration as this game caused me, I still love it. The music, the bosses, the puzzles, it tests your skill as much as your problem solving abilities. And when you finally reach the end, it's such a satisfying feeling.

[@robinsonnox9980]

It's definitely a skill-based game but if I were to play these games often I'd want them to be less skill-based and more puzzle-solving with a platformer verbset :)

[@TropicalTendencies]

To me this is gaming at its finest. Good job and I'm ready for the La Mulana and La Mulana 2 bundle on ps4 release on March 17th!

[@nintndofrk800]

I'm way too hyped for it. I played the first one way back on WiiWare, but shamefully referenced some guides and let's plays. I've got the Switch version of Hidden Treasures Edition ordered, and I'm gonna make it my mission to complete the second one all on my own. Good luck fellow explorer.

[@nerdzone]

I started a no guides challenge with La-Mulana and gave up at the 30 hours mark (then proceeded to use some guides to finish it in 46 hours total. I reached my wall at the tower of goddess not even knowing the "metal pillars" at both sides of the room where a statue blocks the entrance to Tower of Ruin are actually ladders. I too could not reach the rightmost section of the graveyard of giants. I managed to easily find the unbreakable pot you need to descend into to break the seal for the Tower of the Goddess but did not pay as much attention to remember the Annunaki mural so I did not manage to find the other seal. In the Gate of Illusion I was stuck at pretty much the first puzzle where you need to drop down under the mural where there is a riddle about a fool. Otherwise I actually managed to beat the bird that you would need to pause the time for out of sheer stubornness and by learning patterns and just face tanking the damage and were under the impression that Twin Labyrinths should have been a much earlier zone. I managed to find the 4 hidden switcharoos in the Temple of Moonlight just by going pretty much everywhere and clicking since I was under the impression it is something that needed to have been done already and that I missed the clues and yet they would have been found up the ladders in the Tower of Goddess if I recall correctly. It was such a narrow path, honestly. Only those ladders and the drop in the Gate of Illusion blocked my progress really.

[@Nat_the_Chicken]

Actually the clues for the Fruit of Eden can be found significantly earlier than Tower of the Goddess. I don't know the exact locations because they're different in different versions, but they're in mid early game areas. I managed to get to the save point in Gate of Illusion, get the Key of Eternity, and make it all the way down into Shrine of the Mother before I even found Viy and opened the door to the Tower.

[@GlennMagusHarvey]

The Fruit of Eden doesn't exist in the original version. I don't know if the clues differ in location in the various versions of the remake.

[@GlennMagusHarvey]

That bird that's supposed to require timestop is apparently commonly brute-forced by first-time players, from what I've heard. Just because getting Bombs to get the Lamp of Time is just so much less intuitive, I presume.

[@Nat_the_Chicken]

@@GlennMagusHarvey Yeah, specifically I noticed that the Steam achievement "Stop Him Without Stopping Time!" has been obtained by an unusually high percentage of players, 8.9%, higher than certain progression-related achievements like getting the ocarina or beating late-game bosses. It's the most-obtained of the red-bordered "bonus challenge" achievements (which are unrelated to progression or all characters ending and include things like "beat all the bosses without subweapons"). Even assuming you don't defeat Zu before finding the Lamp, it's still difficult to figure out _how_ to use it to beat him, since he'll immediately cancel your time-stop with his own if you try it. You have to do the same thing to him, that is, get him to use his time-stop and then use the Lamp at exactly the right time to cancel it, in order to beat him in the "intended" way. There aren't any hints about how to do this, and I had to have my friend explain it to me because I thought he was still just as difficult as before. It's likely that more players have beaten him just by canceling the time-stop by hitting him, or figuring out how to avoid the feathers consistently once time resumes.

[@Nat_the_Chicken]

@@GlennMagusHarvey Also, I _do_ know that the clues differ in location in the various versions of the remake, because I checked carefully with a friend playing on the Switch version. One of the hints that was in Graveyard on the Steam version was moved to a much more accessible location in Temple of the Sun. The other three I believe are in Inferno, Spring, and Extinction in both versions.

[@The8bitFighter]

Dude mad props for doing it the right way. Although I award you only half points for playing the remake version.

[@mysterypersonthing8885]

LA-MULANA was most heavily inspired by Knightmare II: Maze of Galious. There is a freeware PC port that was actually worked on by some of the NIGORO devs.

[@GlennMagusHarvey]

I hear that Konami was recently looking to unearth their old IPs and NIGORO won the bid to remake the game. I can't think of anyone else more fit for the job.

[@NathanWubs]

Read some of the comments, it was kinda addressed but not fully. Dark souls has millions upon millions off players that is why there is a strong lore community. Same goes when it comes to fnaf, La-mulana while being pretty amazing is a huge niche game. Most people do not finish even if they do use a guide. So deep lore discusion is just not a thing because of that. Which is terrible, but just sadly how it is. Popularity is what dictates the narrative in video games. With many insightful main stream and indie games forever forgotten.

[@alexandersk]

The puzzle that took me most of the time was the one needed to unlock the fight with Skanda. I knew the solution and the exact place, but apparently I didn't do it correctly in the exact frame or the exact pace. I needed to go to a guide only for that one to make sure I had at least the correct answer for that puzzle. Great game, I need to play it again when the Hidden treasures Edition appears and try to discover all its secrets (the secret level for example).

[@Nat_the_Chicken]

Oh yeah it's kinda janky, that one. Especially because there are tons of enemies around that can hit you out of it. Things like that are what make me glad I had a knowledgeable friend on call to assure me that "that _should_ have worked" and I should try it again.

[@mysterypersonthing8885]

He.. hehehee! It doesn't seem like you discovered the "crazy difficult area" that Xelpud mentioned in his emails- did you? It's bonus content that is permanently missable, but more fun/pain 'till the sequel comes this summer! The fact that LM does give you all the information you need to come the correct conclusions, combined with the scale and all of these interwoven parts is what keeps me in awe and loving the game, even if I failed where you succeeded. I will redeem myself in the sequel, though!

[@robinsonnox9980]

I'm not sure if I'll ever get around to the secret area. When I revisited La_Mulana video I wasn't loving it and I don't think I want to give it any more time in the future

[@smurfton94]

12:25 That surface screen exists, its just not possible to get to without cheating and getting rid of gravity. It's just empty sky and the corner of the background forest :) 12:56 as it happens, being a place of meditation is a hint for the original game's puzzle, where you need to press no buttons in the backside Demon Altar to make the ankh appear in the front. There's a few like that unfortunately :/ 13:10 "I'm surprised there isn't a big lore community for this game" I wouldn't go as far as big, but there are people who like discussing the lore of La-Mulana, and we do discuss that on occasion when anyone notices something or asks questions about it. There's a Discord for speedrunning la-mulana and most of us are interested in that stuff. When Mulbruk talks about the Sixth Children, she mentions that they tried to resurrect the Giants. Sakit would be that attempt. From that, I'd say that the entire Mausoleum was built by the Mudmen, but the Graveyard is where the Giants' actual bodies are.

[@mysterypersonthing8885]

It still means that the dark-witch must live and the white-witch must die.

[@mysterypersonthing8885]

There really wasn't too much mystery in the lore left to speculate on until the devs mentioned some things in the LM2 updates.

[@GuuJiYA-a.k.a-TheCrafty]

Hahahaha I beat you.... 185 hours and no spoil x) omg that game. Truly an amazing experience, and a 150-page notebook full of notes where I recartograph with the names of the rooms and various annotations. For me, one of the puzzles that made me reconsider my way of thinking in this game was the one in the gate of illusion , where you have a long text peppered with wisdom and foolishness. And where you have to understand that right and left are not the solution. I lost my mind for 4 hours hahaha. Ps: Btw you have to play TUNIC ;) you will love it

[@Ártica-26]

Solving a murder mystery is easier than beating lá mulana

[@geluflamma6896]

Got it in 95 hours with my friend. We didn't know what is this game. After we stuck first time we divided our duties. He played it most of the time while I took the notes and killed the bosses. Eventually we stuck again, for real now, so i screenshoted every tablet, dialog, skeleton, etc, while my friend hugged and smacked evey wall, floor and ceiling. Then I made 20 page google sheet and sorted it out. It was much more doable but we got stuck several more times. Eventually we got it! No guildes, no hints, we only read manual (we skipped spoilery parts like items list). There is no other game that comes close to this.

[@robinsonnox9980]

Sounds like working with a friend is the way to go!

[@pepekong]

I finished the game last night, at 130 hours. I also got really stuck at the tower of the goddess. Not the part of flooding it, but getting the lamp. I knew that there was a puzzle I hadn't solved, but I disregarded that specific room at the Twins and I knew there was a block I couldn't break but I forgot I had the bombs lmao. Also, the chamber of birth can go suck a fat one, not even the Mantras gave me so much trouble.

[@robinsonnox9980]

Finishing at 130 hours isn't too bad, congrats!

[@GlennMagusHarvey]

The Chamber of Birth is a bag of...uh, spikes, even for people who've played the old version. Because that's when a new mechanic really gets a ton of use. And on spots on the wall that aren't scannable, too!

[@viktorvogel4106]

i quess your one of the most qualified persons to answer this, how does la mulana puzzle difficulty compear to myst-riven and the toughest point n click games from the 90s?

[@jamesd4991]

So much harder. I finished myst and some Sierra games as a kid with no help. Lamulanas later puzzles are ridiculous and I was trying to play it recently with no help and when I looked some things up I didn’t even feel bad about it, just stuff no one would ever find

[@RagnarokiaNG]

14:07 I got stuck at the end of the game myself for a very, very long time as for some reason I didn't realise that was a ladder and was sure I missed a puzzle somewhere. Doing this game with as few hints as possible is definitely a fun experience and I enjoyed being lost and slowly working it out, but there is definitely a point where the odd thing is best helped with for your own sanity after making no progress for over 50 hours.

[@Crevox]

I did the same thing, but it was in the tower of the goddess. I was hard stuck because I could not figure out where to go. It took me quite some time to realize that the background metal was actually usable as a ladder.

[@RagnarokiaNG]

@@Crevox Oh yes! that one was another ladder I didn't realise too. Pretty sure I spent quite a few hours there trying to figure out what was wrong...

[@GlennMagusHarvey]

@@Crevox Where in the Tower of the Goddess is this?

[@GlennMagusHarvey]

I was lucky that someone told me that there's an odd-looking ladder there. I might have been stuck for hours if not for that hint, and I think this aspect could have probably been clued better.

[@Ignas_]

Man, I wish I could do this. I had played the original La-Mulana after watching a let's play, so I had an advantage when the remake came out. At least there's still the sequel that I haven't beaten yet :D

[@GlennMagusHarvey]

How long did your playthrough of the remake take? I played the original before (but long, long ago) and my playthrough of the remake with minimal hints seems likely to take me around 40 hours or a bit less. (I'm nearly done with it.)

[@Ignas_]

@@GlennMagusHarvey I can't remember, but probably in the 40-60 hour range. Some of the puzzles were are lot more simple than in the original, so I had an easier time, but I did look up how to do the endless corridor, mantras, and other late game stuff at that time. Played La-Mulana 2 for like 40 hours without guides, but I took a break. Big mistake. It's been like 4 years and I probably won't remember anything that I was doing. I'll probably play them again (without guides this time) whenever I get a decent chunk of free time.

[@Demortixx]

I can't play games like this. They just frustrate me. I hate puzzles but love the idea

[@robinsonnox9980]

Second-hand appreciation still means something!

[@DSRwafflez]

Having recently beat La-Mulana myself and looking towards starting my journey through La-Mulana 2, I'm curious what the commandments you drew up for yourself were. Also happy to see another Stephen's Sausage Roll enjoyer, I got my inspiration to play LM through discussion about it and loved both. Looking forward to watching your LM2 retrospective once I finish that one.

[@robinsonnox9980]

Basically the same: always keep and open mind on what the solution could be, write down everything, etc

[@trevorcooper3268]

Wow incredible dude.

[@dannyjohansen3315]

I had attempted the La-mulana no guide two years ago and failed so you definitely deserve some kudos for this. My first playthrough was rather slow and didn't get far. It took me while just to understand some of the basics of the game. After not playing the game for a while I decided to restart the game. This time I was going to be more thorough and got a lot further in, but at some point I couldn't read the tablets anymore and was clueless where the last tablet to learn it was. Litterly everything was blocked by the advanced script. That is what I thought. Turns out the game wanted me to manual translate for one puzzle and that just blow my mind when I read about it. It didn't help either that the hint for the puzzle was given by Mulbruk one time only. I still consider that a minor inconsistency because why wouldn't you be able to translate it?

[@robinsonnox9980]

I manually translated that advanced text as well. I'm pretty sure the game is designed in a way that you don't ever have to do that. You can find the special tablets that install the advanced text into your translator before you ever have to use any of the advanced tablets, but I got stuck so I started to translate manually!

[@flashmontage124]

this guy is gonna cream his pants now that la mulana 2 is out

[@maudjito]

Whoa, that's hardcore. Stephen's Sausage Roll is absurdly hard

[@robinsonnox9980]

I found SSR to be pretty breezy compared to other puzzle games I was playing at the time like The Witness and La-Mulana

[@maudjito]

@@robinsonnox9980 You have a different skill-set than mine, because I found The Witness much easier than SSR. La-Mulana is a bit different

[@artey6671]

You know what? I hate you. About 9 months ago I left a comment here expressing my frustration of me not being able to do the same as you. I beat the original La-Mulana (with using a guide a million times like any mortal, obviously), but after that I failed to beat the remake. Eventually I quit because playing a game on rails isn't fun. Now I came back to it and eventually got stuck once again, even though I passed that part 9 months ago. So you didn't just beat me once, not twice, but three times. PS: I don't hate you. Rather, I'm envious.

[@jellywillreturn]

12:15 People who know...

[@jibster5903]

I know I'm late to comment, but you could always try playing La-Mulana Classic, the remake you played is based on a game originally developed back in the day to look like an MSX game (not actually MSX), it's got a lot of the same puzzles, but the remake was made specifically in a way to trip players that had already played Classic. It will be similar the other way around, and maybe more fun.

[@tenslein8977]

I got stuck and now I'm gonna give up. I briefly looked up some stuff online about where I was stuck, and I saw answers. I didn't know what that damn Nebra disc did, damn it! I also tried beating the time-stopping mini boss without the necessary equipment. I thought I'd be able to beat it if I grinded enough gold for gun ammo, but it ended up being a waste of time and I activated hard mode accidentally on top of that. I think I might never finish the game now.

[@robinsonnox9980]

Ooof, that sucks. The game is hard enough on regular mode- Hard Mode: I can't imagine!

[@mysterypersonthing8885]

Ah, so it was the Annunaki/Migela puzzle that was blocking your path. Gosh, when just*ONE* tablet has the exact answer that you're looking for, that can be frustrating- too bad it wasn't that liberating when you finally figured it out. At least it sounds like it filled you with tension for the next few areas! The game makes a big fanfare when you read that particular tablet, I wonder how things happened...

[@givlupi2686]

That puzzle isn't really that bad because you have to go through the room the tablet is in to reach the rest of the field. The part where you enter the pot was though, by that point you're seeing pots as just things to break, not even paying attention to them.

[@GlennMagusHarvey]

@@givlupi2686 Yeah, "doing the Mario" there is definitely...not intuitive.

[@mazanakaUA]

Try Myst series.It's supposedly infamously difficult,but when I played the first game in the seires I got the impression that it's difficult only for the impatient and very inattentive.It has a lot of text (diaries,notes...) and mechanical puzzles.You don't go around sticking random items everywhere-the few items there are have very clear plot purpose.And all the games in the series are very,very beatiful,despite being very very old.If you had patience for LaMulana,Myst will be a pleasant walk through the fantastical worlds.f

[@robinsonnox9980]

I played through the first Myst but haven't gotten to any of the sequels yet. I remember Myst not being too hard although I played it about a year ago. Someday I will get to the sequels

[@Dr0dd]

Myst 3 was the first Adventure game I completed without any help. There was a moment at the veeery end where I just got completely stuck but my brother and cousin insisted on finally completing it. So I left the room while they looked up the solution, because I had hit the same spot as Nox there, where finishing it with a guide seemed like I would just be cheating myself.

[@queenowo6486]

are you planning on playing la mulana 2? I would love to see a video about it!

[@robinsonnox9980]

Currently playing LM2, almost done. I will do a video on it.

[@vgpowerlord]

Is it bad that even before watching a video like this, I can probably guess which puzzles took the most time?

[@tark170]

you should make more videos like this one

[@quiquecrz6451]

in fact this game is easier than the original one, because of the walljump.

[@kayame18]

Time for Hell Temple and the randomizer?

[@robinsonnox9980]

Maybe sometime in the future, especially the randomizer

[@mysterypersonthing8885]

Looking forward to that, too! I'm computer illiterate, so I don't want to "attach" the randomizer until I've finished making a new type of video-guide. I recently gave up on my own self-imposed challenge, of trying to beat the game with minimal items/upgrades. Tiamat killed all my drive to continue, along with me, over 200 times.

[@GlennMagusHarvey]

I've played the original, about to finish the remake, and have watched a playthrough of Hell Temple in the original game...and I am never, ever, going to do Hell Temple.

[@littlefieryone2825]

I'm gonna be that guy and say that I dislike this game (spoilers in this rant, but... if you're stuck, you may discover here that it's a glitch blocking you, not a puzzle). I do have to admire all the effort and thought the devs put into it... but no. I just can't say I enjoyed my time with it. For the record, I did break and start looking at a guide to get me past certain parts, which eventually devolved into looking at it every step of the way just to get the whole thing over with. But here's the thing; it's not just the puzzles that bother me. It's the combat. No one is talking about the combat. It was probably worse for me, because I got myself stuck in the "hard mode" of the game. But for one thing, that tablet was a horrible idea. Even for the troll-esque design the devs were clearly going for, I think putting something like that in a game where players are inevitably going to read every single tablet more than once was a horrible idea. And so, in between running around solving puzzles, I spent most of my time getting battered left and right in spots where it's impossible for me to maneuver out of the way because of both how the game controls and how cramped a lot of areas are. And don't get me started on how much of a pain it can be to get out of water. I swear the character flies left or right half the time when I want to just jump straight up. And here's another thing: I ran into not one glitch that made progress impossible, but two. One was when the pochette key would not work on the mural, even though the guide I was using said it was supposed to. I did some digging, and found this thread (steamcommunity.com/app/230700/discussions/0/864975632371907738/), plus one other. I ended up emailing one of the people in that thread my save file to ask with some embarrassment if they were willing to fix it like they had before. Thankfully they were, huge shout out to Vilurum. But then I hit another glitch. I swung the whip left and right in the place where I was supposed to, but no matter what it would not work, even though it worked for the first area the guide mentioned. This one had no steam threads; however, the page on the La Mulana Wiki (lamulana-remake.fandom.com/wiki/Dimensional_Corridor) mentioned in the trivia section that the place "used" to be bugged in that if you fought the subbosses in the wrong order, you'd be stuck. I was playing the Steam version, for the record. Here's where I also mention that during my first time playing this area, I ignored the guide and wandered around freely, fighting the bosses in the order I wanted to, just to keep _some_ sense of surprise and agency. But seeing that piece of trivia, I loaded up an old save, fought the bosses in the order the guide told me to do, and then guess what? It worked exactly like it was supposed to. This one in particular really pisses me off, because assuming this is the exact same glitch that was fixed before, the fact that it's still here means it is absurdly easy to recreate. The nature of the game also means it may be impossible to realize these are glitches without a guide. But now to discuss those puzzles. They certainly are complex and vague, but I at least see the appeal there. I raged at a lot of the solutions I learned from the guide, but to be fair they may have all been hinted at in some way or another. There are a few things I can genuinely complain about, though. Like how to this moment I'm not sure which tablets are solutions and which ones are just lore building and therefore completely negligible. Or how some of them aren't really solutions, in my opinion. I can only speak for the first chunk of the game (up to the fourth boss), but some of them feel more like "You'll find this thing you really need eventually" rather than "Here's a hint on how to find the thing you need." The example I have is the Scalesphere, which you need to survive underwater. The tablet that mentions it in the Temple of the Sun C-5 (if memory serves) mentions something about a maiden touching something, I think? Something like that. So how does that help you find the Scalesphere?...it doesn't. Just casually progress through the Spring in the Sky, put a weight on a thing, open the chest, and there you go. So... why is that tablet there? This further obscures the differences between tablets. Are they hints to a solution? Are they lorebuilding? Or are they just mentioning something you'll stumble across without any critical thinking whatsoever? You know what my favorite area of the game is? The Mausoleum of the Giants. That is where I found that the world building and puzzle-solving perfectly went hand in hand. I actually felt like my reasoning was getting me places. This is because, as mentioned in the video, the Mausoleum of Giants is more self-contained. Most of the tablets in there reference set-pieces and puzzles that are in the area specifically, rather than being the solution to something a mile across the map. More to the point, I enjoyed learning about the giants. I liked learning their names, somewhat piecing together what their goals were, what they were about, etc. There were other glimmers of this in the game as well. Like the number-symbol puzzle in the Endless Corridor. All that said, that feeling was lost when I was I was at a loss for what to do. On one hand, from a ludology perspective, I can see how these crazy puzzles would reflect actual archeology. On the other, the combat feels like it's fighting against this. How can I get absorbed in this excavation when random organism are uncontrollably slapping me around ever few seconds? While some combat would add to tension, the extent to which it slows down any attempt at puzzle solving is ludicrous, at least when you're trapped in hard mode. The bosses are better, though. They have their own moments of bullshit where you have no chance of avoiding an attack, but they have a nice visual design, a sense of scale, interesting patterns, and good music. In fact, the music for most of the game is great. ...thank you for coming to my Ted talk :/

[@robinsonnox9980]

I think I might like how some of the lore just isn't relevant to any puzzles. It makes the backstory of La-Mulana feel more vast than it is, and "alive". At the same time I agree that the Mausoleum is one of the better fields because of how closely knit the lore and puzzles are. With these riddles being so based in language, I wish that the developers had another run through all the tablets and dialogue to fine-tune the word use since in some cases the terminology is too vague or awkward to most players. The combat I do like. I don't think it couldn't be improved, but every once in a while I like a more deliberate platforming style with no air brakes. I can't imagine playing this game on Hard Mode though. I would start over but this is coming from someone who had started over twice during his first collective playthrough!

[@volpe2077]

I'm curious, how long did it take you to get through the Gate of Illusion? That's by far the place I got stuck on the longest! Having no clue whether you're actually supposed to be tackling an area and not knowing where in the ruins you're missing something was maddening, but the Gate of Illusion really made me want to tear my hair out lol. It could have been *anything* or *nothing* that I had to do in there and I had no way of knowing, nor did I have any inkling of an idea what I was supposed to do something with! That area is so insanely obtuse and trolly that I felt it was a middle finger from the devs lol. For the longest time, I convinced myself that I couldn't do anything in there but boy what a fool I was! Even after forcing myself to look for anything to do in there, I kept getting stuck time and time again with almost every puzzle! I wonder how you fared =P. Oh and also, did you force yourself to figure out the Wedge/Mantra puzzle at the end or did you just brute-force it? I tried to actually understand the logic and make the Crosses of Light match front and back, but even with a handful of guesses for every area I only got the Temple of Moonlight wedge right, and even then it was probably a coincidence that I did (I would have gotten the Endless Corridor too, but I had no clue what I was doing at that point lol). How did that puzzle go for you? In the end, I came to the conclusion that understanding how the developers were thinking the rooms of the fields should be moved around would literally necessitate reading their minds. I ended up brute-forcing everything and I was so frustrated that the devs made something so damned impossible to actually understand, mostly because I really did make an effort to understand it and thought I had the best guesses that one could make, but only one of those were correct. If you understood their logic, I would love to hear the explanation by the way =P

[@robinsonnox9980]

Now that you mention it, I did spend a lot of time stuck in Gate of Illusion. Maybe it's because comparatively I was stuck in other places for way longer, but I didn't think it was worth mentioning. The kneel to enter the ground took me awhile to figure out but it didn't hold me up as badly as the Tower of Goddess. With the Wedge and Mantra stuff, I think there was some brute force involved, but at that point, when I had gotten to the Mantra puzzles, I had already pondered over them so much that when I had access to that puzzle, I had already figured out many solutions.

[@GlennMagusHarvey]

I remember thinking that if the areas were fronts and backs then they should be mirror-imaged but for whatever reason they *aren't* for the purpose of the Wedge/Mantra puzzle. (It might have been a better translation to call them "in front" and "behind"...?)

[@legrandliseurtri7495]

Honestly I though this area wasn't too bad. In fact, the first time I was a bit stuck, I looked up the Eden section on the Steam guide instead of the gates of illusion section. It told me that you shouldn't need help for this area(because ''Eden'' only asks you to solve a puzzle in moonlight temple before gates of illusion appears), and I just accepted that and managed to find the solution to that puzzle. I had to go look up a video for a place where you need to use a weight on what appears to be nothing, but that was all I needed to reach the holy grail tablet.

[@airix10]

Since this video is 5 years old, my comment here is probably meaningless to you, but Castlevania II (NA version) really has only a single incomprehensible secret, and you could probably brute force it since it's in an obvious "what do I do here?" location.

[@robinsonnox9980]

I think I know the secret you are talking about and it's been spoiled to me through years of secondhand CV2 talk

[@airix10]

@@robinsonnox9980 Yeah I'm sure you know the one. Also way back when, we were all subscribed to Nintendo Power so we already pretty much knew how to solve it before we even had the chance to spend 260 hours figuring it out 😁

[@smurfton94]

Here's an invite to the La-Mulana discord discord.gg/ncHUc

[@kingoppsanti5830]

So should I buy this game and try to beat it alone?

[@robinsonnox9980]

Maaaaaaybe, it is QUITE the challenge

[@kingoppsanti5830]

@@robinsonnox9980 after 16 hours I needed a walk through. This game is so confusing. I don’t know how anyone can beat this without help.

[@JoelHernandez-tz3vk]

I'll avoid this like a plague and maybe and just maybe play the sequel. Largely because it isn't hard in the same way Battletoads or Super Meat Boy... or even I Wanna be the Guy is hard and in fact, I'd rather no death run Battletoads than play La Mulana. This game isn't hard so much as it is punishing and complex. Which is about the antithesis of accessibility. ... Not saying Battletoads is an accessible game. Specially with game overs in the equation. And if it does matter I do have some less than sane achievements like 106% of Super Meat Boy (total death count: 10006), Contra 3 in Hard mode, Battletoads without using a continue, no warps and no extra lives exploit in stage 2, every official level with all coins in Geometry Dash (total death count somewhere around 9000) just to name a few.

[@robinsonnox9980]

It sounds like this isn't your kind of challenge

[@TheSeiyu]

I thing you will enjoy Rain world if you give it a chance.

[@robinsonnox9980]

I have given it a shot but it doesn't run correctly on my PC Might have to play it on PS4 and I really want to play it because it sounds transcendent

[@treehann]

Now do the original with no guide o_o

[@robinsonnox9980]

No, that would be too hard!

[@treehann]

@@robinsonnox9980 JK JK, btw awesome work with this :) the remake is more fun anyway. You've become an ABSOLUTE LEGEND by doing this playthrough and I'm sure you'll remember the experience forever!~

[@Crazyoldman84]

I don't believe anyone can beat this game without a guide. I think anyone who says they did is a lier. How did you know about the lamp of time before you had it?

[@robinsonnox9980]

Even with 260 hours under their belt? :)

[@Crazyoldman84]

@@robinsonnox9980 that's right. I recently played this game and loved it but also realized it's very flawed. There are to many puzzles that are just far to far outside the box. I completed a lot of the game by accident which made the game harder because I was reading tablets trying to figure them out not realising I already solved the puzzle. I often used the correct item in the correct place but because I wasn't Standing in the exact spot or hit the exact spot it didn't register. So I thought it wasn't what I was ment to do and didn't try again.

[@legrandliseurtri7495]

Isn't there a hint tablet about the lamp of time long before you can get it?

[@mitsurugi999]

I am currently playing on Switch as it was released recently and it is my first playthru, but I think I'm not gonna invest my time in it. I don't see the puzzles too difficult, I just see them as simply... stupid... How the hell was I suppose to know (and it will be as spoiler) that I had to FIRSTLY use the doll in front of any giant to show that I am small, while the doll description ALREADY told me it is a proof of me being small. So do I had to use it once in front of a giant? Twice? Before every giant? This is purely stupid, making the wolrd inconsistent... So currently I'm playing it like this - running around on my own and only when I hit a brick wall I immediately turn to any walkthrough on the internet. I really love this game, it really is something different but some of the puzzles are just too stupid for their own sake... Like a second before you were fighting a boss? So now you have to break a jar that drops singular item and knee in it? So press down? And I get pushed through an in-game texture to a lower level... SO DOES IT ONLY HAPPENS HERE OR EVERYFCKNWHERE THE GAME WANTS IT TO!?

[@Crazyoldman84]

Yeah the game went to far with the puzzles. I played for 30 hours before finally playing it the same way as you. The amount of back tracking is insane. It's good game but extremely overhyped by those who say this is the perfect game. It's far from perfect and without concrete proof which will never happen, I don't believe anyone can beat the game without a guide. Just because people make a video or post it on twitter saying they did it without a guide, doesn't make it true.

[@legrandliseurtri7495]

The one where you press down on the single item dropped is a cool puzzle honestly, and I figured it out on my own. I just spent a few minutes teleporting around in that area, and after a few times I noticed there was always exactly one ninja star spawning on exactly the same broken pot. Then, I made the connection with the hint about praying for the fallen item(or whatever was the exact wording) and I was delighted when it worked.

[@3anaurv2]

Why looking for guides ? Everything is explained is the game.

[@robinsonnox9980]

How to solve every puzzle is not very obvious in-game.