A Commander Deck That Wins the Game by Losing the Game

[@8thPlaceDave]

If you want to see gameplay of this deck, you can watch my video here! kzbin.info/www/bejne/bKiufWqXq6yrm9ksi=5DQ6bHTFjZ_T6RSJ

[@sirtoastytoes884]

If you control an effect like Lich's Mastery with Transcendence and 20+ life, the game is a draw unless someone destroys one of them. Transcendence will trigger, attempt to make you lose the game, fail to do so and then trigger again because its criteria is still met

[@RufuRufaFarraRafu]

This actually almost happened to me with Immortal Coil, then for a while I could threaten with looping the game if I had exactly two cards in my graveyard

[@PaulGaither]

Regarding Pact of the Titan: "Djinn Illuminatus" gives your spells replicate equal to their mana cost, which is 0 in this case. Add in anything that grants haste and you can just win on the spot for free. There is also Goblin Bombardment and other ways to sacrifice creature to ping, so you can also win without haste. So, Pact of the Titan is bad, but it can be a game winning combo spell.

[@scottmorrison3929]

I was running Pact of the Titan + Djinn Illuminatus + Pandemonium as a janky Standard deck back when I first picked the game up. I'll always have a soft spot for Pact of the Titan.

[@BrootalMetalBanjo]

Also just works with Hive Mind, cast 100 copies of pacts and pass turn everyone dies on upkeep

[@Explodingrubbershark]

It also triggers Magecraft, so with Storm-Kiln Artist you get infinite treasure tokens which turns any player targeting burn spell into a win-con.

[@scottmorrison3929]

@@BrootalMetalBanjo Replicate copies spells but does not cast copies, so even if you make 100 pacts, each opponent only makes 1.

[@ThreatLevel9]

conveniently, Kenrith grants trample and haste

[@sirtoastytoes884]

Keep in mind when the player you gave Archfiend of the Dross leaves the game, the control effect from Harmless Offering/Donate ends and it returns to you so you will also lose the game when it attempts to remove another oil counter on your upkeep and has none

[@slurpleslixie]

As many Jon Irenicus players can attest. It's real awkward

[@marcoottina654]

Bazaar Teader lets you donate easily and by just tapping it

[@Freddisred]

Assault suit is really fun with archfiend

[@slurpleslixie]

@@Freddisred How, once they gain control of it from the Suit's trigger it's too late for its own trigger to go on the stack

[@Romashka_Sov]

​@@slurpleslixieit's a hot potato that explodes once someone destroys the suit

[@tremner3501]

I thought the last deck was great for friend hate but this one might be better. Keep them coming! People still want to play with me and that has to change!

[@theravenone3439]

Perfect deck. It's as weak or powerful as you need it to be, if you feel like you're running away with all the fun, you can always explode.

[@JustifiedNonetheless]

"Reading the card explains the card." This guy: "Oh, yeah? Losing the game _wins_ the game."

[@zaron2597]

So, it's a minor thing, but if you want a second copy of mutavault you can swap all your basics to snow basics and play 'Faceless Haven' as another creature land that is an angel. Given it's a snow land, you only need two others, sources, and I can see sneaking is a single forest and X(prob black) snow duel for your land tutors.

[@nathancarlk]

I have a sumular deck, winc9n is hive mind and anything that then casts "you loose the game" and I have a card "you can't loose the game" Cam get nutty when you cast 4 or 5 turns in a row with no consequences. Even worse if you play a pact at instant speed on end step of a player and the one after isn't I that color. Go-Shintai of Life’s Origin is the commander to being back hive if it's destroyed or milled. The sleeves are that guy on a bike meme, where he puts a stick in his wheel and crashes.

[@Marsaw]

I rewatched your win con and lose con videos recently and it gave me the idea that you could run Near Death Experience in this deck. With so many effects preventing you from losing and your commander giving you more control over your life total, it seems a lot more feasible to hit that magic number. The real power would be in combining it with an effect that sets your life to 1 when you would lose (which I see you only have one of in this version), triggering that with one of your many lose cons, and then using an extra turn card to start your next turn immediately and instantly win the game.

[@MetaKaios]

If you have Silverquill Lecturer out when you cast Phage, you can give the Phage Demonstrate to force an opponent to cast a copy of it. Or if you can find ways to cast lose-conditions from elsewhere than your hand, The Twelfth Doctor can Demonstrate them. Replication Technique can copy lose-conditions you already control - two copies for yourself, and one more for an opponent. =)

[@lucasriddle3431]

Note that the copy of Phage you create with Demonstrate is not one you cast from your hand, so this is only effective against the LAST opponent in the game. Other losecons you can probably copy more safely.

[@CanisMythson]

idk if you're aware of it already but I found a rather unique combo with one of the extra turns, Tree of Perdition, and Stunning Reversal (as your way of dealing with the lose con specifically, there can't be any other active at the time). First turn you have this set up, you cast the extra turn, then use Tree of Perdition to save your high life total, replacing it with 13. Then on the extra turn, do whatever, but make sure you cast Stunning Reversal at the end, then when you end the turn, your current HP goes to one, and you draw seven cards, and don't lose the game. Then after that resolves, you ask if there is any response while you are at one HP, just to make sure you get your stack priority as you tap Tree of Perdition again, swapping your 1 hp with whatever the total was before you started this combo. So this gives you an extra turn, 7 drawn cards, no loss in your life total, and the ability to ping an enemy to one instantly next turn, assuming Tree of Perdition survives to that point. Bonus if the specific extra turn was Chance for Glory as then your Tree of Perdition is permanently indestructible, preserving that free ping to 1 hp. Pull that off and using one red on Kenrith to get trample will act as an instant kill for one player, assuming they don't have enough blockers to reduce the damage by a full 5.

[@ninjashoe2158]

I remember seeing your old lose the game deck video, glad to see the updated versions

[@Theorak]

Still very much love the unique approach to win conditions, or lose conditions in this case. :D Cool to see my Sudden Spoiling suggestion being utilized!

[@RealTal.]

That snug intro was PEAK

[@8thPlaceDave]

Snug agrees ;)

[@styxwessel5930]

so glad I stumbled across this, I've had a lichs mastery I wanted to play with for so long and now I have somewhere to put it!

[@patonnight]

Nice deck, such a funny concept! It may be mana expensive, but maybe some card that let take control of your opponent turn could be used to be forced into meeting whichever requirement is needed to lose the game (Like not paying for the pact, when they could). Not sure if it would be worth it tho.

[@Awsomeman328]

One possible card to add to combo with "Nine Lives" is "Solemnity" which is an enchantment that says, "Players can't get counters and Counters can’t be put on artifacts, creatures, enchantments, or lands." So with these two cards together it makes it so that "Nine Lives" can't put any counters onto itself and thus it prevents all damage done to you. It is not as strong as the cards that say, "you can't lose the game," but sometimes just preventing all damage ever can be enough for some decks to just be shut out from winning. That being said, I can totally understand NOT putting "Solemnity" in the deck. While I was watching, as you pointed out some cards and mentioned a 2nd card along with them as a combo card to go with 'em, when you finally got to "Nine Lives" it seemed like an obvious 2nd card to mention, but when it didn't get brought up I was definitely confused at first. But after thinking about it for a little bit, "Solemnity" could actually be such a non-bo with certain parts of the rest of the deck. First few non-bos that come to mind being Kenrith himself, though idk how relevant the +1/+1 counters are for this deck, "The Book of Exalted Deeds", and "Archfiend of the Dross," though if played right could actually combo if you gift it to your opponent. Plus also, given how cramped for space this deck already seems to be, I wouldn't be sure for myself what card to get rid of to make space for this, but I at least wanted to mention "Solemnity" as can "obvious" include to combo with "Nine Lives" if it wasn't thought of or mentioned before even though it may actually have a reason to NOT be in this list anyway.

[@just_a_duck4420]

Another great donation card is Blim, Comedic genius. He is a four mana 4/3 flyer with Whenever Blim, Comedic Genius deals combat damage to a player, that player gains control of target permanent you control. Then each player loses life and discards cards equal to the number of permanents they control but don't own. With how many ‘gifts’ in this deck, the reoccurring donations while also being a target for Kenrith would make him perfect

[@snocoldman]

it ain’t a dave build unless there’s $500-$1000 in support “good stuff” cards 😂 Fantastic build dave, love the theme, and I might actually build this instead of the mono-black Phage deck I had planned. Great work!

[@plaid_scientist]

9:53 transcendence will actually form an infinite loop with lichs mastery since it will keep triggering the lose effect as long as you have more than 20 life

[@jproductions7469]

Glorious end is definitely a reference to the original time walk design

[@RamenGlutton]

22:17 Do you have any gameplay we can watch? I love watching how the deck plays after the deck guide to see how it plays in a game

[@joermunG]

I got a lich deck as well with queen marchesa as the commander. A great card in that deck is beacon of immortality. It can draw me a ton of cards or one shot an opponent with tainted remedy. Since it shuffles itself back into the library it can also be looped with extra turn spells and an empty library to (slowly) kill the whole table.

[@DerHody]

"Mystic Reflection" would be fun in this deck. Forbidden Orchard or Pact of Titan to bring a copy of a creature under your or your opponent control. Pretty sure "Sundial of the Infinite" is on your radar, but i guess you dont like to end your turn. You tried Stifle effects for sure and in this type of deck its annoying to only hit a single lose trigger, But "Consign to Memory" lets you counter multiple triggers, thanks to replicate

[@nzeezoostupidiii1314]

You can make this a goblin charbelcher deck on the side if you only play MDF lands. You'll need more mana fixing but it is fun to pull off. Granted card or two relays on a specific land but I'm sure there are alternatives with the MDFc's. Edit: Forgot to mention [[Everybody Lives!]]. Personal favorite of mine.

[@dem7556]

Absolutely brilliant

[@Lomaxxx53]

Look into Exchange of Words because is one of those un-set (from Unfinity) that are actually legal in Commander and can really benefit this deck

[@ericleiva]

Red pact is so much better than white pact. And one thing that goes well together with both the extra turns and any "you lose the game" triggered abilities is Sundial of the Infinite (which is a repeatable Time Stop that only works on your turn), Obeka Brute Chronologist (essentially the same as sun dial) you could also run Time Stop, Hurkyl's Final Meditation, Discontinuity, and Days Undoing.

[@bigblind6422]

Can do cool tricks with the white pact though. Cast wheel of misfortune, hold priority cast the white pact. Bid an absurd amount of life, prevent the damage and gain that amount of life instead.

[@cylonsteve2511]

Really nice thematic deck design 😎.Maybe the Enchantment, Worship, may help against aggro?

[@theunease5541]

I'm a big reliquary tower hater. IMO Most of the time it is a do nothing winmore card. You should be able to win just fine with the best 7 of any sized hand. In addition to that, being able to discard them to the grave has advantages, you even have built in reanimate on your commander. It is very rare I see reliquary in a deck and really feel like it is better than a basic, even in just a 3 color deck. There has to be a reaaaally good reason for it be there in order for me to let it make my mana base worse/take the place of a better utility land. That being said I probably didnt pay close enough attention and reliquary synergizes with something in this amazing silly deck well enough to justify the slot. But if it doesn't, consider a basic or a better utility land. MDFC lands go crazy dude. Waterlogged teachings is pricey and comes in tapped but it tutors for all your pacts, fractured identity, glorious end etc. And that is just one MDFC. Cool vid and cool deck tho.

[@TheMCGamer2012]

where's Bazaar Trader? the best repeatable donate effect hands down even if it would only work on the creatures and artifacts

[@Aaano]

A consideration that you may need to carry with you is that conflicting abilities like with the "cant win/lose" or "Cant lose/win" cards is that the card that comes out last has the most recent timestamp, and thus takes precedence. so don't accidentally cheat with both the Demon and Angel out at the same time. Either or, not both, is the state of the game.

[@8thPlaceDave]

Platinum Angel and Abyssal Persecutor don't have overlapping or conflicting abilities, both can be happening at the same time without contradicting each other, so the time stamp for the two is irrelevant in this regard.

[@Aaano]

@@8thPlaceDave Then i may have been scammed out of a FLGS win. Dang.

[@avivsavinik2497]

I play a rakdos deck which donates bad stuff to opponents and would personally recommend adding bojuka bog and maybe more lands that exile an opponents graveyard because you can immediately make an opponent lose for having an empty graveyard. I know the mana base is tight, but having your land be a win con is pretty good...

[@tremner3501]

Also can you post links to the full decklists? or even affiliate links so we can buy the decklists?

[@8thPlaceDave]

I always forget to include the list! Thanks for reminding me ;)

[@theShadowBolts20]

I love this deck ty for showing it off. I desperately want to build it

[@Hot_Dog_Jones]

this was a great video mango it popped up on the feed and it was a good recommendation

[@MageSkeleton]

Fateful Handoff Nicol Bolas, Dragon-God

[@Battleguild]

I have a 4 Color Deck of this. Sky Swallower is a fun addition to the deck.

[@rayaronitwitchybrow]

This deck makes me think of those Gaelic tales of faires with their obscure rules. As the deck controller you know all the rules so you can play around them. But your opponents don't know anything so once they break a rule they lose the game lol.

[@alistairetheblu]

18:00 Unless someone ends the game in a draw via Celestial Convergence or Divine Intervention.

[@Heavymetalhunk]

im working on a similar Kenirith deck focused around beamtown bullies and Zedruu the Goatheart

[@AndresDerakhshani]

Who knew that losing the game would be the best way to win the game

[@8thPlaceDave]

Andres I have not seen you here in a long time

[@elibuggy-agresti6529]

You gotta have sheoldred, the apocalypse with lich’s mastery. Gaining life or drawing a card will draw your entire library.

[@sasmo6515]

Would you say Puca's Mischief would be a good fit for the deck? It's an enchant that lets you swap permanents with opponents so long as they have a permanent with equal or lesser mana value.

[@Life_Advice]

I play a very similar deck but with the 12th doctor because he has demonstrate

[@DeinOmma]

Better Dodge These Farewells with These Enchantments!

[@hostandersson4301]

Add Divine Intervention just to mess with people :D

[@natben6099]

i saw your zurgo deck, and now this. is the theme of the show "make a deck no one wants to play against"?

[@8thPlaceDave]

Kind of yeah :)

[@tyroflame2764]

Yeah, that's a cool Deck I get jealous. Have you thought about urborg and or Yavimaya. Alsoay shifting Grift may fit one of the donate slots.

[@8thPlaceDave]

Urborg probably would be a good idea actually

[@wraithchild666]

Thank you - thats a halloween deck sorted! :D

[@skykrow]

Coveted Falcon donates

[@TaIathar]

"If losing the game is such a good deck, where's losing the game 2?" *the video* Honestly, this deck is genius.

[@mwyler3390]

"....it's really difficult to get a player to 13 life....UNLESS ...(gestures at evil tree)"

[@maxspecs]

You have a ton of spells that need 3-5 black but no Urborg in your mana base to make everything tap for black?

[@bretts3046]

No Isochron Scepter? That with Angel's Grace or an extra turn spell while you have a "can't lose the game" permanent in play would slap.

[@RicAdbur]

What sort of things can prevent Enduring Angel from transforming and cause you to lose that way? Im having a hard time seeing how that lose condition can be triggered.

[@8thPlaceDave]

If someone kills it in response to the trigger activating, you will lose because the trigger happens but it won't transform since it's in the graveyard now

[@RicAdbur]

@@8thPlaceDave ok interesting. Is that the only scenario in which the lose condition triggers?

[@RealTal.]

(also you should probably be playing dryad of the illsian grove)

[@TripsAhoy]

This seems so janky and cool. ❤❤❤

[@marcoottina654]

So, with a "Litch" stuff on the battlefield, "Healing Salve" became an "Ancestral Recall"? :D Also, could "Zirda, Dawnbreaker" and "Sky Key" help here? Also also, Demonic Pact works well with "Bargain" effects , since you can sacrifice that enchantment :D I have 2 copies of Enduring lying around some decks but I've never actually understood how I could potentially ever lose with him: do I lose whenever I have multiple copies of him triggering at the same time?

[@ari_cool]

what about the new card from duskmourn "marina vendrell's grimoire"? it says lose the game

[@xChikyx]

starting the video, but is it a hive mind deck?

[@apathetk]

I have a friend who loves playing a deck all about stealing their opponent's cards. Maybe I should use this and give them stuff they don't want.

[@TheViralMC]

Maybe a Shadowspear to remove Hexproof if need be.

[@Joshad11]

Who's that guy playing the Dave commander deck at 22:33?

[@allopeth]

You can't lose the game, but I bet you can lose all your friends by playing this deck 😂😂

[@dafewger]

This is just a Grixis Twelfth Doctor deck with extra steps

[@watcherofsomething7439]

Wouldn't Everybody Lives fit the flavor your deck is going for quite well?

[@sharkiejade]

PROTECTION. You are playing a deck that requires your stuff to stay in play or else you straight up just lose. Heroic intervention is the only card that protects you from someone just casting Path to Exile on your Platinum Angel while a lose trigger is on the stack. I’d add some more stuff like snakeskin veil as well as counterspells. (Btw Teferi’s protection isn’t great in this deck since I’m pretty sure it doesn’t protect you from “you lose the game” effects so its usability is limited)

[@7Alberto7]

Amazing

[@doozy1633]

I’m surprised you didn’t have blim, Jon Irenicus, or Zedruu

[@8thPlaceDave]

But Zedruu is there ;)

[@NarutoGeek411]

The fact that Supe's thumbnail made us all lose The Game.

[@joedoe7572]

Do you have any gameplay videos of this deck? Can we get one???

[@8thPlaceDave]

Yup, I have one here :) kzbin.info/www/bejne/bKiufWqXq6yrm9ksi=5DQ6bHTFjZ_T6RSJ

[@guarionex1234]

So basically you become Dr strange. 😅

[@Beowulfgang_Amadeus]

*points at platinum angel*

[@weasley313]

damn.. 900€ for this exact list is just too much

[@eXistanCial]

I am ashamed to say that after watching this video I still have no idea what the wincon is

[@CanisMythson]

The wincon is making your opponents lose the game.

[@RealTal.]

You should play the two cards that make the game end in a tie as well!

[@8thPlaceDave]

I have another plan for that strategy :)

[@Robbie_The_Froggie]

I just use door of nothingness and the choose myself as the target. Lol I always lose the game.

[@8thPlaceDave]

Excellent strategy :)

[@rainwoods69]

bazar trader is a 2 drop tap to donate

[@biglink13]

As someone who has no friends/cards to play the game. I just wanna see this deck played out.

[@8thPlaceDave]

I made a video of it here! kzbin.info/www/bejne/bKiufWqXq6yrm9ksi=yZtueJHoZ3rLwBAy

[@isaz2425]

I don't understand how you win with this. Sure, you have a lot of effects that say "you can't lose the game", and some "you lose the game" effects. But this doesn't win the game, right ? Some of them can be given to an opponent to make them lose, but I don't understand the point of the other ones like the pacts. Did I miss a part where you mention a card that makes you win with those effects ?

[@birdlad5624]

Beef, Nebraska

[@8thPlaceDave]

hahaha

[@foloed]

I just lost the game