Why Your Deck Can't Do It's Thing

[@Digital_Butterfly]

EDH players be like "let my deck do its thing" My brother in christ your deck's thing is winning

[@altrivotzck6565]

I would agree, and I agree with the sentiment, but no. You're usually wrong.

[@N1NJ4P1R4T3]

@@altrivotzck6565 Build to win or don't build at all

[@Tzizenorec]

I often think MtG would be more fun if we removed all the win/lose conditions (i.e. all the things that make the game stop before the players want to be done) and made the winner "whoever can prove they will be able to keep doing more damage to the opponent than the opponent will ever be able to do back".

[@altrivotzck6565]

@@N1NJ4P1R4T3 Commander is literally the format where you _don't_ build to win. You're thinking of CEDH.

[@altrivotzck6565]

When I play, I play to win, using my deck that wasn't built to win. However, it's not like you can't be shooting for some other goal besides winning.

[@Grudi28]

i always build a deck thinking "is this deck fun when i'm losing?", because if you are playing against people who have the same skill level or deck level, you will most likely win 25% of the games anyway, so you need to have fun losing too. Edit: lol i wrote this comment before the end and you said exactly that, funny

[@TheGoGoat91]

I love my don andres deck precisely for that reason, it's always doing some shenaningans with other people's cards even if my boardstate is terrible

[@ChadEichhorn]

ohhhhhh i think this comment is gonna change some things for me

[@Cebion91]

Thats why i love my queen marchessa monarch deck... its mardu controll and i gaslight everyone at the tabler so even if i lose i enjoy myself the whole game lol

[@ArdentMoogle]

From my 1 week of playing magic - some friends recently got me into it - sounds like your deck should always be fun to play regardless of game outcome, and be able to function without its commander for cases where everyone hates on it. Do these sound like good principles to build a deck on?

[@jheckie14]

First Elk and now Snail! You're really racking up all my favourite mtgtubers

[@thetrinketmage]

Actually I did another colab with snail a while ago! My video on fetch lands and his video on cEDH

[@chickeneverythingisfine9338]

@@thetrinketmage Hopefully you guys do a podcast episode with all three!

[@theoneandonlyrapunzel729]

Came to comment the same, i Love this

[@N1NJ4P1R4T3]

@@theoneandonlyrapunzel729 Smae!

[@marcoottina654]

We need a ShuffleUp&Play episode

[@imaginarymatter]

"What is best in Commander? To crush your enemies. To see them driven before you. And to hear the lamentations of their wincons."

[@timbojimbo5898]

underrated comment

[@ninjaguy8519]

Hot take: be more okay with losing. I'm SUPER competitive in the sense of trying to play optimal or not pulling punches but you can't always win. It's not hard to shuffle up and play another game

[@BarbeqdBrwniez]

Full fully hugely giga agree.

[@yargolocus4853]

Yeah I finally unlocked my mentality, and I enjoy losing now. This happened after I pulled off a successful Divine Intervention (forces the game to DRAW in 2 turns). I realized that I don't really care the outcome of the game, as much as the game itself

[@rulamagic]

Something else I do is recognise the moment I'm having fun within a game (I even say it out loud and write it down--I keep track) so that when things go south and I end up losing that game potentially I can look back and say "I had fun".

[@kevinkozlowski3958]

This is the mind set commamder players need. I'm so sick of the crying 😂

[@CameronSMoore]

This is a good life philosophy as well. I’m going to start doing this in my games, thanks!

[@N1NJ4P1R4T3]

I have some that I am just tickled pink when they do "the thing" that I made them to do, regardless of winning or losing

[@joshbowdish9851]

This whole video is basically my argument against power creep. If the thing you do is win the game, I've got 2 options if I want to win instead, 1 - stop you, or 2 - go faster. Combos are pretty fast, so usually "go faster" is another combo. So it's that or play lots of removal. And as a guy at home in control, you hve to be careful about removing too many things or people are going to direct their ire at you, especially if you don't have a clear way to win. If the thing you do is slow enough, you get to play your game, your opponents get to play their game, and then we get to see who's stronger. It's more analog and less binary because fewer of the outcomes are an immediate win. More interesting stuff happens there.

[@timothye.2902]

and "stop you" is typically socially discouraged to the point of non-viability from a social perspective. If you rock up to a table with a full stax/hatebear control list intent on stopping everybody's game-winning combos and beating down, people will just refuse to play with you.

[@40Kfrog]

For anyone who has trouble with this, I recommend to play more tribal/ kindred decks, and try a type you haven't tried before (maybe one that isn't so well supported). When creature type synergy is "the thing", you get to do it at all times just by playing. My Ayula, Queen Among Bears bear-only deck can win, but I get to do _its thing_ every time I play some random bear nobody has seen before or deliberately mispronounce ForeBEAR's Blade.

[@Miatatrocity]

More broadly, build your decks around synergies, rather than specific interactions. I have a food deck, a card-draw deck, a tap-down control deck, a rampy cascade deck, an aggro token Impact Tremors deck, and several others, and they all share one thing. The "goal" of the deck is to run an engine of some sort, TOWARDS a win. If I get shut down before my engine gets to do much, congratulations I BECAME the problem, that's a compliment. And if I can drive that engine all the way across the finish line, obviously that's a win too. Focus on the engine, not the finish line.

[@N1NJ4P1R4T3]

​@@Miatatrocity You mention your "goal" is to run an engine TOWARDS a win, which is the finish line, but you later say to focus on the engine, not the finish line. Do you focus on the "goal", ie the win aka the finish line, or do you focus on the engine? We've all been in the kind of game where someone durdles for 20 minutes with their engine and never gets close to winning the game

[@johannamegido8465]

if there's one thing we need less of it's tribal decks

[@o-mega7515]

Anyone reading this should build an Urtet, Remnant of Memnarch myr tribal deck. You'll thank me later

[@shlaxxn1923]

I have tribal zombies and tbh it’s probably the most boring of my decks to play. My landfall deck however does its thing and wins most games it’s in. It sucks as the thing is so easy and winning is the thing, that it makes it hard for other decks to keep up. I usually bring it out against other tougher decks. My favorite tho is my mono red burn deck with Pyrohammer single target instant burn the world type deck. It’s heavily into feast or famine, but it’s fun that way as if it pops off, you killed the table by nuking a creature for a stupid amount. It’s just a ticking time bomb styled deck.

[@sethb3090]

"So, how do we get around this?" Brain: _give the Goblins haste_

[@TheMattmatic]

I had a game recently where I played Sliver Queen and other players were massively ahead. Then I finally got my gameplan going and it was down to me and the monoblack player who was even more behind me earlier in the game. I attacked with everything and he had Sudden Spoiling, basically the only card that could save him. He had saved it for the perfect moment and could kill me on the next turn. I remember that as one of the most fun games in a while, since I lost in such a spectacular and cool way. I've gotten a lot better at appreciating sweet plays like that, even if they mean I lose the game on that final turn.

[@DigitalinDaniel]

I break my base formula down into 12s when building... only replacing a card if it's in the same category. Some cards can fill multiple roles, like ramp and draw but I can only assign them to their best category. And picking a creature is almost always the better version of a spell. 1- Commander (Should compliment your Core, not be a pillar of your deck!) 12- Core Cards (The theme of your deck, what you are trying to do, this should influence your choices in every other category.) 12- Payoff Cards (When your core is functioning, these are wrecking house.) 12- Draw Cards (Repeatable effects are better.) 12- Ramp Cards (Permanent effects of ramp. One time uses like Dark Ritual are not ramp.) 12- Removal Cards (Usually start with 4 non-creature hate, 4 creature hate, 4 boardwipes) 12- Veggie Lands (Fast Lands, Shock Lands, Check Lands... these lands need to be efficient sources of mana.) 12- Utility Lands (Lands with effects that compliment your Core, never have more than 4 lands that do not tap for mana) 12- Basic Lands That leaves 3 slots, for goofy shit. Pet cards, really splashy spells that have no chance of working. I usually like to use two of these slots to guarantee I have both a weaker and a stronger alternate commander in my decks if they're not in the Core Cards, just so I can swap them freely in a new game and kinda tweak the power of the deck.

[@jonathanrobinson8926]

Can confirm: I play a madness deck, and it is one of the most consistently fun decks every single time. It doesn't have a super-focused "wincon", but it isn't so wide as to be a true toolbox either. All the cards just synergize really well and it's a pretty great play experience every time.

[@pigcow7744]

I've recently finished a grixis pirate treasure deck and I consider a game a success if I get the table to see cool pirate things. Stealing permanents and making them do something within my own deck is a wonderful challenge I try to complete.

[@thatmtgnerd]

I think a big issue with peoples "let me do my thing" is there thing isnt a strategy, or a assembing a creature with every key word, its just winning. Like the amount of times someone has been salty because i stopped there win the game combo saying "you never let my deck do its thing" is fascinating. A lot of commander players forget that magic is a game where 2-4 people attempt to win. Not solitare.

[@peterd8251]

In my Mimeoplasm deck, whether I win or lose, if I get to make a massive pile of keyword creatures crafted with my Altar of the Wretched // Wretched Bonemass, I am happy. Same for if I get to pay half my life greedily surveiling a bunch of cards into my graveyard with Doom Whisperer. Having some modest sub-goals in your deck besides the win itself helps a ton with having more fun! I'm glad you made this video, I think it will help a lot of people. Also, happy to see the appearance from Snail!

[@danielsniff6405]

Altar of the wretched is such a fun card. Shout out to majestic myriarch as well. Mass reanimating and swinging with that guy is peak fun.

[@MortonFMurphy]

God man I once drew 42 cards in a turn with my Mimeoplasm deck and lost the game immediately before taking out my last opponent. That deck is just so incredibly fun, I feel like I never ever lose. I lost, but my heart was soaring with victory.

[@Diamior]

Great video ! Can't wait to see Snail's take on it. I'd be curious how you'd solve/mitigate that "feast or famine problem" in a storm deck. They want to "feast" by nature. Im currently brewing a budget 'Rowan, Scion of war' and after the firsts goldfish to "proof of concept", this is the exact issue i notice. I need to untap with my 2hp commander alive, and if she die im basically back to square 1. I have a couple of ideas to try out (haste enabler / stealing and sacrificing creatures / couple of boardwipes) but i'd like to get a piece of you wisdom on the topic. I wish great growth for your channel, you deserve it !

[@thetrinketmage]

I think some decks like storm are always going to be feast or famine unless you somehow fit a real backup plan in the deck

[@the.dirt.man.]

Snail is paradoxically, the goat 🐐 🐌

[@AlluMan96]

Of all the lessons to be learnt from playing Commander, it didn't take me long to recognise, that I'd much rather be playing at every stage of the game instead of just the end of it or up until board is inevitably crushed. Persistent strategies that can either generate reliable value to keep interacting with the board or keep making comebacks after the umpteenth board wipe. Even if I can't win after those situations, so long as I remain in the game, the possibilities are never closed on me. Even if my deck didn't get to do it's big, splashy thing, so long as I remained a consistent player in the game and as a result had a chance at winning, I consider that a victory. It's why I favour either midrange or late-game decks, because each of those are more capable at acting in every stage of the game. Play too fast and it's very easy to run out of tricks and banished to top-deck jail by turn 6.

[@commanderpower99]

My dude, I can't stress enough how much I agree with what your statements. Mtg in general is about interacting with the opponent both on your turn and theirs. It is the very essentials of mtg. Let's praise how you almost had it but your altar got destroyed or how you top-decked the counter for the combo piece. I don't know when the way of battlecruising or "do the thing" became Canon in Magic. Lots of loves and keep up the great work!

[@daodude5515]

This is why I have enjoyed precon battles. Obviously, there are different power levels across precons or even within precons from the same release, but it is really satisfying when you can get everyone on a similar level from the start. The back and forth of these games is what makes it fun in my opinion.

[@jumpskare1344]

This video gave words to something I’ve been struggling with for a few weeks now. I’ve been trying to identify why I enjoy playing against some decks more than others. My friend - a true spike - thoroughly enjoys his Zada, Wyleth, and Miirym, but I tend to enjoy his Samwise deck more, and it isn’t about power. Other decks exist within our playgroup like Solphim, Rafiq, and Melek, that rival all of these decks power wise, but all of those feel more enjoyable to play into. What it really boils down to is his impact on the game. If the first three decks are allowed a turn to function, they likely win the game, so removal is necessary. However, removal often means he has little impact as he runs less interaction than most at our table. It’s what he enjoys playing, so I would never ask him to change it, I’m just glad you finally helped me come to what should be a simple conclusion.

[@netmonmatt]

I really like to think about Commander games like a game of Mahjong. Often, you do not win hands, but you also don't necessarily lose them either. I consider a good full game of Mahjong where I did well was one where I placed second. That "top half" mentality helped me recontextualize the end of an EDH game. Was I the last person with life? No. Did I make everyone fight tooth and nail, and ended up at a head to head or the whole board went down at once? That was a good game.

[@Cynidecia]

as someone who has a kraj deck, it feels awful knowing how powercrept the purple blob is.

[@boobox2000]

One of my favorite decks is Queza, Augur of Agonies. It's thing is drawing cards. I always did the thing, unless I got epically mana screwed.

[@callMeK0H]

New to edh and just built a krenko deck because making tokens makes me happy. This vid was a great watch, thanks for the ideas

[@micahheller6212]

I actually agree with the old sentiment, like, if one player is playing stacks and the other is playing tokens, the most fun possible outcome for that game is one where for the majority of the game the token player is producing the exact number of tokens that the stacks player is making them sacrifice each turn, and both players are slowly adding more things to make the scales turn in their direction. the opposite can also be true, but that is more to do with the commander of the deck and the power level of the "thing" people want to do, nadu for instance, the only way for others to do their thing is to never have nadu enter play which makes it a great example. it is very feast or famine, the thing you will notice is that commanders like this are almost always the ones players complain about, nadu, voja, most of the slivers, kill or be killed threats.

[@sebastianscopa3188]

yeah, it also boils down to how many one card wincons are in a deck, if letting someone untap with mana leads to Torment of Hailfire for 20, it leads to gameplay patterns where you simply can't let this deck ramp to that total, and since lands are basically untouchable, it leads to being focused down to death

[@hellcat7528]

I don’t even play paper magic, but this is an awesome video to help learn how to build decks. I’ve been eyeing out a deck idea for Duskmourn standard, and your video helped me get the idea of what I should focus on more! While I understood from the start that my deck isn't a solitaire deck, I feel like having someone tell me to focus more on overall game experience helped regardless!

[@andrewk1504]

Every time I come to this channel expressing to learn some kernel of good advice, I see you observing objective realities, and then interpreting them in ways that are completely opposite from my experiences in playing commander for over ten years...

[@marcoottina654]

for instance?

[@declanmadden6058]

It’s crazy how perfectly this gets to the heart of why I don’t like my miirym deck, it was the first deck I had built where “doing the thing” led directly to a win, and at first I was confused on where I went wrong with the deck, but later understood that it was more an issue with the type of deck that I was playing, so I have been avoiding those decks ever since

[@deejayf69]

Woooo, yeah baby!! Snail and Trinket Mage collab! This is what I've been waiting for, this is what it's all about!! Wowowowowooo!

[@madsnorlax223]

I think what you said about greasefang is exactly why I love my henzie/umori list. The deck wins surprisingly often for a deck that plays almost entirely at sorcery speed - but it also loses plenty. And when I lose.... I usually don't mind. Because I usually got to smack someone with 15 from a worldspine wurm, or drop a turn 4 archon of cruelties or some shit, and I'm constantly doing stuff. Sometimes that stuff is enough to win, oftentimes it isn't! But it always does stuff!

[@o-mega7515]

Definitely feel this. My Omnath, Locus of All commander deck is SUPER fun to play, because it doesn't really have a specific wincon. As long as I get the commander out for extra mana and cards, my deck always its thing, which is getting out random big multicolored creatures, ramping, and being scary. I don't often win with Omnath, but I always have fun. Unless someone decides to counter Omnath the turn I cast it. In that case, I do nothing the entire game.

[@xezerex4494]

Can’t do its* thing

[@kphaxx]

***Why your deck can't do: it is THING

[@mariobattaglia8063]

Yes. Agreed. It certainly is thing.

[@alexanderficken9354]

you are deck can not do it is thing

[@loversinjapan42]

Leave it to a Magic player…

[@Noah-yz6li]

10:48 polymorph blightsteel? That’s a great idea

[@jonothanthrace1530]

When I make my own decks, I like to include a couple of silly card combos that don't necessarily win the game but are extremely fun to play (like Tutoring for a Tutor, then Tutoring for Seasons Past and using it to put my tutors back in my hand).

[@loganusher591]

Elk, Snail and Trinket mage! Now this is the collab I've been waiting for! We need one more then you guys should get some gameplay videos together!

[@Bonnythebest1]

I've found that just adding cool cards that fit in the bigger strategy but also do their own "cool thing" is a lot more fun! Since it leads to a lot of fun and memorable moments in every game. (ex. Smugglers buggy in Bello's deck)

[@Digital_Butterfly]

I have a Voja deck that's designed to be a bit more interactive because he's kill on sight, and it's also really funny to hit a counterspell with Guttural Response

[@trashtyphoon]

The same veritasium video you mentioned also said that people are much more likely to remember the 'peak' of an experience, not *just* the ending. Everything else though will most likely be sorted out of the mind for additional storage. This still speaks to your point though since people are probably much more biased towards remembering the exact moment they were popping off and then then getting shut down and eventually having a dismal final board state.

[@mikaelgillioz]

You always hâve great things to say WE could See the cards together directly from the screen about a themme like +1+1 counters or i mean maybe landfall cards et.c. I love you rating every commander every day could be a full Video about kinds of cards directly with your own ideas about em

[@marcusburnett22]

As someone who plays valuegoodstuff decks the most, I really appreciate this concept and support the sentiment. Can vouch for more fun games playing value over win cons!

[@rand0mlyhere]

Funnily enough (since she was mentioned in the vid) I just got done making some changes to my own Greasefang deck. The main idea is still hitting people with airships and gundams, but with some added aristocrats pieces to play off of the incidental tokens of ‘Parhelion II’, ‘Astartes Gunship’, ‘Tormod the Desecrator’, and others. So, even if your “thing” is very aggressive, you can try finding an alternative to play off of the incidental actions your deck takes. Might be interesting to find a new angle (and possibly introduce a second “thing” while you’re at it)

[@aronarguello982]

Can we please please PLEASE get video of a game between you, elk, snail and someone else. That would be SO fun to watch I bet 🤗

[@aronarguello982]

And the 4th, tempest official ❤

[@thetrinketmage]

Haven’t heard of them but I’ll check it out

[@Fluffy_Kun]

1 of my favourite ways to make playing edh more fun is by making side quest goals. 1 of them I've been trying at for a few months now in my marchesa Dealer of Death deck is to kill an opponent with a desert ie ramunap ruins or the etb ping duals. It's still doing a niche thing for the deck but is a memorable moment if I pull it off.

[@yummines]

That last part about just making sure you have protection for your commander is what I personally do for my Blanka deck. It certainly can be fun to run such all in strategies, but you should always have the protection to back it up. Otherwise you can't complain when you get your commander removed and sit around pouting that you can't play the game.

[@ArdentMoogle]

Just got into magic a week ago, bought the Enduring Enchantments precon. Definitely feeling how bad it is to not do your thing. Already thinking about how to improve the deck's consistency so I can play its gimmick, and trying to learn a lot about deckbuilding to make a cheap but fun Zirda deck. I may have gone overboard and now have to sift through 300 cards to make a deck 😅 Unfortunately I only really want to play decks where I like the art for the commander, which is really limiting the sort of decks I can play. Hopefully keeping a lot of these small lessons in mind will let me build decks that are always fun to play, regardless of if I win or lose. Doesn't hurt if they actually can win though!

[@RhysticTutor1]

One of my favorite decks is my Urza deck, because it “doing the thing” is having a crippling gambling addiction. If it does some of the other stuff, I win, but even if it doesn’t I want to see Vexing Puzzlebox hit 100 at least once

[@Maalikabok]

Now that you brought up snail, I desperately want him as your third seat in your podcast. All three of you fill that niche commander philosophy itch I’ve been searching for.

[@sicklysweetdenouement]

Le simple awnser would be that people get a little bit too greedy when it comes to choosing what "their thing" is.

[@nathanennis5121]

This is quickly becoming my favorite mtg channel

[@otterfire4712]

This has been a thing I've set out for my Rielle the Everwise deck. I love drawing cards and for about a month or two I was using Jhoira, Weatherlight Captain and I wanted a deck that could draw a lot of cards in a short time without frustrating the rest of the table. Fortunately, Ikoria dropped around this time and I picked up a Japanese Foil version of the card and built the first list. Rielle quickly became a favorite with how explosive her effect is when paired with things like Tolarian Winds, Cathartic Reunion, and Nahiri's Wrath. To boot, I don't run cards like Laboratory Maniac or Jace because I've found that usually when I have one in hand it'd be too early for it to be in hand or I'd need mana for something else to get a winning play, therefore I don't run them and if I deck out it's my own fault and I can enjoy burning out of my deck. Some time later, Rielle has hit a level of shear power that the list was fast and lethal, but very dependent on Rielle being present to recuperate the cost of discard costs on spells and it was made apparent when one of my friends pulled out a Black sacrifice heavy deck that would force everyone to sacrifice many cards while he'd slowly gain value from all the death incurred. After that infuriating game, I went back and made adjustments to Rielle to use less of the discarding spells and added some more creatures and cycling cards that have double uses to make them more versatile and to shore up my board a little more so I'm not so dependent on Rielle, but rather the deck becomes even more enabled by her. Sure enough I was in a game where one of my opponents was playing a trading deck (exchange control of cards) and he pulled her away from me but my deck was able to shamble along, slowly gathering resources on board for Rielle's return and when that happened the deck was able to put forth a dazzling return on hand size and draw power to the degree that I decked myself out in the process of removing one of the other players. In all honesty, I could have prevented my own deck out, but I commit to the bit of drawing a ton of cards, 36 cards with only 20 left in deck

[@StrongButAwkward]

IMO this is the correct version of the statement of what the best kind of EDH game (or any casual multiplayer game of MTG, if we collectively remember how to play anything buy 4 player FFA EDH in casual again) is one of these two: "The best game of casual magic is one where everyone's deck gets to *try* to do its thing" "The best game of casual magic is one where everyone's deck participates meaningfully and was able to at least proactively set up its thing" Anyone that things everyone has to actually do their thing in every game for the game to be fun for everyone doesn't really live in reality.

[@zavhyatta9795]

My favorite decks thing is just token making! I make a ton of tokens. clues, treasures, and foods! not very bad tbh.

[@zacharytaylor2625]

Interesting psychological thing, but I think the end result is people have more fun if they build good decks.

[@FuegoRedux]

I built a Magar of the Magic Strings deck recently and it's a blast to play. Win or lose I get to see someone's face when they have to ask what another weird old card that costs 7-10 mana does. Head Games on an opponent to give them all the tools to be the table police is great.

[@SpinAroundU]

My man. I've been saying the exact same thing to people getting into edh for a couple years : how statistically you only have about 25% chance to win so you'd better find a way to enjoy the game outside of winning. I realized that myself when I tuned in Sefris reanimator, which doesn't have a very clear line of win and instead just tried to overvalues, and then I realized what made the commander unique was the dungeon part. So I built it dungeon tribal, and that's what I'm focusing on when I play.

[@thelastdankbender4353]

It's important to add that there should always be a consistent win con plan in every deck. There is nothing more annoying than a deck with infinite value that fizzles into a board wipe after a 20 minute turn.

[@TheAngelRaven]

A game where everyone's deck 'does the thing' relies on the idea that everyone is playing without sudden win combos and that 'the thing' is either a cool interaction or a really explosive but durdly combo. 'The thing' for my Unifier Jodah deck is shockingly losing one moment then all of the sudden becoming a massive threat with a board out of nowhere. For my Necron deck, it's infinitely loop Razerlash Transmo with Imotek and Phyrexian Altar. For Beledros, it's just sitting back with Beledros for more than the turn he comes out because HAHA 7 MANA 4/4 WITH NO PROTECTION.

[@noobtube2799]

I used to have this problem with my Imoti deck. In the games where people played decks like my friend's Toggo/Thrasios ramp deck, that have a lot of removal/pings, my deck sucked. I fixed this by adding a lot more ramp (I think I have 19 now) and a lot more card draw. This makes the deck an acceptable stompy deck, but also so that when I untap with Imoti in play, I often win on the spot.

[@GabiP2]

The cross over episode we’ve been waiting for ! 🥹

[@tidewatcher9962]

I think that is more of a playgroup specific advice. Like if your friends want to play slow battlecruiser decks, you play a battlecruiser deck. If your friends want to play fast decks, you play a fast deck. If your friends are playing preconstructed decks, you play a preconstructed deck. And this can only apply to friend groups where people are more willing to compromise. If you try this at a local store with people who are, at best acquaintances, and may have only brought one deck with them, your going to have a bad time. As you will be subjected to all different speed and strengths of strategies. As I could bring a deck whose entire point is being turbo efficient in getting a Thassa's Oracle win and that is it. If nobody has disruption, I could be ending games on turn 3 or turn 2 (with fast mana) reliably. And even if other players have decks with proper disruption, then I have become the archenemy that must be stopped every match, a ticking time bomb that must be defused or it will explode. Obviously the other players are going to feel frustrated in this hypothetical scenario as their not getting to play the same game anymore, that their decks may not be able to do what they are designed to do. As even something like Consultation Oracle is not inherently a cedh combo.

[@chaseshadows566]

Excellent video, great points made.

[@majinvegeta6364]

I've noticed that content creators don't talk enough about the importance of protecting your commander. WotC has made a ton of cards in all 5 colors (and colorless) specifically to allow players to build around commanders and, therefore, more niche strategies than a handful of archetypes.

[@SwedeRacerDC]

I am starting to see that irrational fears (phobias) play a role in the group experience by impacting threat assessment and game altering actions. This tends to be the case with Commanders whose thing has been very troublesome for you in the past. People struggle to make rational decisions when confronted by phobias. This has led to some soured game experiences as well, but your final point really helps here. Don't try to pop off too quickly. Play different play patterns to influence the game in different directions when you're up against a "phobic" player who will target you just because of the deck you're playing

[@chronoatog5650]

I think another big thing that leads to more fun is removing a lot of "free" spells that work by themselves that go against a player(force of will), I feel commander almost works better when people have cheap removal that gives people creatures/resources/etc. Beast within feels bad, but it generally doesn't feel bad as a 3/3 is still a competent blocker. Ironically blue has the most amount of these fun spells an offer you can't refuse, strix, (another 4 cost one that anyone can help pay the cost.) Made several precons that run good spells, mostly draw instead of search, effects. Compared to swords to plow where you feel more miffed from that. Another good example is running the strips that give the opponent nothing vs giving them basics. I feel commander sets really also help precons feel better, is add more cheap "good" removal that gives the opponent a resource. (creature/treasure/land/another card from your graveyard to hand.) Fact or fiction is another good one, because again long turns generally what make it painful where you dont feel like you have any input (especially early on.)

[@jakksonkobalt]

Three of my favourite games I can remember are games I lose. The most recent very fun game I played, we all agreed it was a tie after 100 minutes and are life totals were 21 32 49 and 71. I will never remember the game I played to absolute perfection and got into a 1v1 against a deck that they knew that if they swung at me with goblins, I would play inkshield that I tutored and destroy their life. But they played smart and just barely got the win on me. Or my epic at instant speed war I had with a mono-white player that ended up with us agreeing that I won because we lost track of what was targeting what in the stack rather than actually working it out that I probably wasn't going to outright win. And hey, my Trelessara, the Moon Dancer deck is my favourite deck despite the lower winrate. I played against an Elesh Norn, Mother of Machines deck that shut down most of my deck, but it was immensely fun as I still fought tooth and nail to do my thing. Including casting march of the multitudes for X = 11 and drawing 11 guys onto an infinitoken and slowly erasing them as they died.

[@D_A_D_]

It is not my responsibility to make sure your deck does its thing. If your deck isn't doing the thing consistently, lower your curve and do the thing faster, or find a more consistent way to do the thing.

[@andresarancio6696]

I have a tendency to play "feast or famine" decks, mostly out of my enjoyment of doing the strongest possible thing my playgroup lets me with a specific commander, so I have a couple separate experiences that exemplify this. I play Tivit, that Tivit. Turbo time sieve plus esper good stuff Tivit. And I know that is a high power deck made to win. In our pod we say it is part of the "budget CEDH" list of decks we have. And the way you play my list is kind of how you need to play Tivit in CEDH. Hold interaction or silence effects, cast Tivit once safe, win from there. Doing the thing wins the game. I play Obeka, Splitter of Seconds. I didn't intend to build her to be high power, so I didn't want to make her "cast Obeka and win". But Obeka is crazy strong of a commander, making things as simple as the Initiative being extremely powerful. So the deck packs an absurd amount of card draw, interaction and secondary commanders, to ensure that I can still make some value if I cannot do the "Obeka, haste her up, punch for 10 upkeeps". I play a Temur The Fugitive Doctor deck focused around casting huge instants and sorceries from the graveyard. As anyone who plays storm knows, doing its thing wins the game. So the deck has a dozen different ways of doing its thing. You don't need to secure a hit with the Fugitive Doctor to flashback an Aminatou's, you can also exile it with Mizzix Mastery, cast it from your hand with cost reductors, or chain it with a bunch of rituals, or spin on it from Ral Leyline Mage or from Arcane Bombardment. It is harder to get shutdown if you have multiple ways to enable your thing besides your commander. And I play a gimmicky Theros themed deck, playing as many of the Gods as possible in my Kydele Rathos list. But the deck is intended to be an enchantress list that also takes advantage of backgrounds as I have partner commanders. Its thing is actually many things. One game I may he taking over outvalueing the table with Karametra and Sythis, another I may just swing with an army of angels, fairy dragons and soldiers that get +4/+4 vigilance and flying, another I may have Rathos punch someone with an eldrazi conscription on him paid by Kydele. So I would say the four solutions I've found to this problem are: Double down in feast of famineing, accepting you are trying to win and play a lot of interaction. Try to build a deck that can still play without doing its thing and play a lot of interaction. Give more options to your deck to do its thing to ensure you can do it by playing more secondary commanders. Or be more broad and have your deck have multiple lines. Or in summary: Play less synergistic value pieces that only work with the commander in play

[@Shadow__Knight_]

Currently, my favourite deck the Zaxara deck i threw together from cards i already had in the right colours that did slightly synergistic things, but not very synergistic, and sure it wins sometimes, but it's 'thing' is me having fun, which is why its my favourite deck, because every game ive played with it, ive just been having fun

[@grillburgerdaq5121]

I have a purraj of urborg deck and, honestly, if I can just get her out there and attacking I feel great. It’s just a card that makes me smile and by virtue of it being on the table and my opponents having to consider it is enough for me, win or lose.

[@jlaw131985]

Ooo, Glare of Subdual is gonna be fun with the new Survivor mechanic...

[@biggswigg2613]

My favorite recent commander deck has been the Tenth doctor with the Mana dork partner. Nothing in the deck cmc 3 or less. Linear game plan for turns 1-4 so I can have a mental guide for mulligans to look for. Then after that it's just a temur cascade battle cruiser style deck. My commander helps immensely with extra cards and value, but is not necessary. I never feel like I haven't gotten to do what I want, because everything I want to do is ripped right off the top of my library.

[@monomanamaniac]

I want to get crushed lol. I want to be a huge problem the whole game and honestly I'd rather not win. Winning is fun, but I much prefer trying to do my best and getting soundly stopped.

[@JervisGermane]

I had to settle for the potential of the deck for the fun. My deck can stunt out in 13 ways, including being able to put every card back into its owner's library and set any player's life total to any amount. It won't, but it's fun to imagine a format where it could.

[@UniGya]

I had this issue building my Missy morphs deck. I got really zoomed in on the whole idea of getting to reuse morph creatures over and over that the deck didn’t do anything for the until she got out. Because of that I restarted from scratch with the idea of finding more ways to cheat out and reuse morphs so that without her the deck “does it’s thing” but when she hits the board now I get to crank it into overdrive.

[@meekumanu]

snail + trinket mage collab we've all been waiting for

[@stext1230]

My motto is that casual EDH should be about great stories. Obviously, we try to win most of the time, but I find it really silly to play a four-player solitaire and compete to finish first.

[@noneofyourbusiness3288]

A fun game of magic to me is where you make decisions: should you play proactive or reactive? What do you have to look out for? Can you afford to tap out? When fast strategies are discouraged, the need to play reactive diminishes and you end up making less impactful decisions. Your decisions no longer revolve around what other players might do, just how you squeeze the most value out of each play. The table ends up playing 4 rounds of parallel solitaire until one player decides they can finally win. That is not fun for me.

[@agentkhaine2204]

My thing is playing big creatures that also interact with opponents. I get to do The Thing a lot while separating my opponents’ The Thing from their win condition, and then they die to steady beats & burn.

[@0rbit4lFr4m3]

Think this had some stuff I needed to hear for some of my decks. Lol

[@TDM137PL]

My commander deck I build (I'm new with commander) is a tribial angels deck. And it's "thing" I'm trying to do each game is "cast as many angel spells as possible" I have fun if I win, I have fun if I don't (unless there's a guy that wins turn 4 but well stuff happens)

[@FiveStringC]

Man i have nothing interesting to add except that chair tribal has had a significantly longer run than i ever thought it would

[@gd_xl]

after almost a year being into this hobby, my favorite deck is my upgrade Kardur, Doomscourge precon. it’s a goad deck. i hardly ever win because once i get to 1v1 it gets pretty hard to not goad my opponent into killing me, but i have so much fun just causing chaos on the way there that it outweighs the fact i lost that game.

[@muatafalol]

Song that plays when you encounter a caterpillar

[@al8188]

I always say to give your opponents enough rope to hang themselves with. In casual mid/unoptimized high power you need to have something going on that your opponents can talk themselves into looking the other way on. If everything is a horrifying, game-ending threat, you'll get sniped game after game. If it's a guy who does a lil something, gets you some value, deals with a problem, and has respectable body they are going to look for any reason to not Path it, especially when other people are playing with much scarier threats. The best way to "win out of nowhere" is with game pieces you've had on board for 4 turns. If I put my stax hat on, you GOTTA be able to play through disruption. The question "Does my deck fold to Drannith Magistrate?" gets you like 70% of the way there. It's not foolproof, but if a 2-drop eats your lunch with no recourse you may be in a feast or famine plan.

[@ashemabahumat4173]

The thing should be part of the win condition, that's just good deck building. Playing interruption is also just good deck building, and using it when you should is being a good player.

[@AL-ry5ly]

Wait, am I going crazy? 14 degrees Celsius is not very cold at all. That's somewhere in the 50s

[@thetrinketmage]

I think it’s mostly supposed to be discomfort and slight pain. I don’t think they can actually hurt the subjects. But I’ve never tried it myself…

[@Diamior]

Water transfer more heat than air. having your hands submerge in 14°C water will not arm you, but you'll feel mid to high level of discomfort depending of your tolerance. Enough discomfort to make a study about it. Pretty sure you can try it without risks. Keep something mildly warm on the side.

[@paulszki]

I was also sceptical and asked chatgpt. Here's part of the answer (it knew of the experiment and the temperatures without me mentioned the temperature myself): Cold Perception: While 14°C isn't freezing, it's well below normal body temperature (37°C), and the human body perceives anything under 20°C as cold. Hands and fingers are particularly sensitive to cold, and immersion at 14°C quickly causes discomfort and pain as blood vessels constrict to retain body heat. Duration and Pain Accumulation: The discomfort builds up with prolonged exposure. A quick dip into 14°C water might not feel too bad, but staying submerged for 60-90 seconds allows the cold to penetrate more deeply into tissues, increasing pain intensity. Thermal Conduction: Water conducts heat much more efficiently than air, so even at 14°C, the body loses heat rapidly. The constant contact with cold water accelerates this process, unlike being in air at the same temperature.

[@minervadetauro7646]

Water conducts heat more efficciently than air, and 14C is still significante below normal body temp (36-37) so 14C water feels significantly colder than a room temperature of 14C

[@GeneralJerrard101]

Wait, you and that snail are the ones who TOLD me to make the thing my desk does be the win con.

[@thetrinketmage]

I did? When?

[@GeneralJerrard101]

@@thetrinketmage I can't say for certain, but all my decks were focused around doing goofy things, like using Oskar Rubbish Reclaimer's ability to cast as many spells as I could, and then they never won because that doesn't actually win the game. Then watching your(plural) videos taught me to focus on win cons, and I can't rebuild Oskar because discarding and casting stuff that should be a cost doesn't win me the game. Why would I build an Oskar deck when Oskar doesn't help me win? And to be clear, I appreciate the advice, because before I would have built it, and everyone suffers as I wipe their boards with Archfiend of Ifnir while doing nothing to end. (Note: three cards I don't want to see in any game are Rhystic Study, Thassas, and Tainted Pact)

[@seanedgar164]

Couldn't agree more. My aim is to have consistent value set up so I can dig/prep for a win

[@TheMaskedNinja_]

I clicked on this one because i saw Goku

[@simonteesdale9752]

This is similar to a saying I have. The closer to winning the game your thing is, the more you have to earn it.

[@orpheos9]

A fantastic way to build casual commander decks is to 1) think about how to make the 75% of games you dont win still fun 2) think about how to make the rest of the table not hate you for the 25% of games you do win

[@alexanderparker9421]

A fun commander game is where everyone had a good time.

[@baldiii7830]

The entire video makes me think of my Skullbriar deck. I pull it out when I want fast games beccause it is super streamlined, with lot's of removal and other veggies and some fun synergies with Skullbriar. But doing my thing while it does involve winning mainly is how many counters I can stack on Skullbriar. How big of a keyword monster can I get before swinging for lethal. Even if I loose I often have fun just building up my commander and I nearly always take out at least one player.

[@Uri6060]

So true, I was playing some decks on mtgo and the amount of times people in my games were complaining about playpatterns and then looked at me for agreement and I was just like "well, id get like 10 mana if I untapped so I dont blame em" xD Esp with shit like meria where I could either win or just totally fizzle and get 2 mana rocks.

[@EnRandomSten]

I think a more accurate version at least where I play is "a good game is one where everyone will have a *chance* to do their thing".

[@chumanzky9862]

I got two goals with my Henzie deck: watch people's faces when i cast something that should not have haste with haste (Elder Brain, Vaevictis Asmadi, Balor) and cheat as many things onto the board as possible (Doors of Durin, Emmergent Woodwurm, Industrial Advancement) even when i'm definetly loosing i still have tons of fun

[@ledude9788]

same here, though i realized that blind obedience or other effects that make creatures enter tapped are very frustrating. Will have to slot in more removal for those effects

[@Z-S-H]

great video pointing out something that is too true

[@GridRivers]

OMG THE MOST IMPORTANT COLLAB

[@gabrielarchanjo6028]

I KNEW SNAIL WOULD APPEAR!!!!