A COMPLETE DISASTER, Rings of Power Season 1 OVERVIEW

[@draxxzakuto5735]

So, as promised I just bought your signed graphic novel and a copy of your book. I've been listening to it on audible for a couple hours now and it's very well done. You're pretty good at keeping things short and simple while still giving a lot of detail, and the intro alone made me want to know more about the character and the world. Pretty impressive. Keep at it sir. :)

[@andrewcamden]

How could anyone actually be offended by the behavior of the Galadrial in this show without at the same time being absolutely disgusted by a certain book's apparent suggestion that a mass murderer who commits immoral acts towards people of a certain age can become a "good guy" just by adding more bodies to the pile? Call me old-fashioned but I definitely take exception to the idea that a literal predator can become a superhero by fighting terrorists.

[@draxxzakuto5735]

@@andrewcamden I don't see anyone calling him a good guy. Not sure where you got that from. He's a horrible person just like galadriel. He just has better intentions than she does and is way more interesting as a character. At this point he's willing to sacrifice himself to help people, where a galadriel is willing to sacrifice people to help herself.

[@andrewcamden]

@@draxxzakuto5735 a pervert who preys upon [people of a certain age] and murders millions of people has "better intentions" than Galadriorc?! A Mary Sue with literal super-powers who is ALSO the most powerful super-hero in the fictional world is a "more interesting character"? The idea that someone who preys on [people of a certain age] and kills millions of people can redeem himself and become a literal super-hero by killing a few more people is profoundly contrary to Christian morality and is quite a bit more evil than any of the ideas in the bad robot filth. I was honestly shocked that Shad, who identifies as a Christian, would want to make a story in which an exceptionally evil pervert gets to become a superhero simply by killing a few more people. No one who defends this filth can criticize the still awful but less so Bad Robot nonsense on moral grounds without being a huge hypocrite. If the story ended with this evil character voluntarily imprisoning himself for life to atone for his crimes, I might be able to tolerate it but to let a PREDATORY pervert AND mass murderer become a super-hero is frankly morally bankrupt. I haven't been this disgusted since I heard about a certain case in Bolivia where a moronic judge let a man who killed more than seventy women go free because he was such a good boy in prison... or a case in Austria in which another perverted serial-killer was let out of prison. In both cases, the men went back to preying on and killing women because that is what the kind of immoral monster who deliberately kills and/or forces himself on innocent people does if he isn't behind bars. Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahmer both claimed to have become Christians in prison but anyone who let either of those men out would have been guilty of murder. This would be doubly so if either of those creeps had actual superpowers and a magic sword. Honestly I wish that said character ACTUALLY was the son of the villain rather than the villain himself. Coming to terms with the legacy of a father who had great accomplishments but committed great crimes would be an interesting premise. Having to resist being pulled into your father's mold by the people who support you because they want you to achieve what he did would be an interesting conflict. On the other hand, perverted, Mary Sue mass-murderer gets to become a hero by killing a paper villain who wants to destroy the world is just stupid and profoundly evil. It seems like a power fantasy for people who fantasize about preying on young people and committing mass murder... but don't worry. A little terrorist blood clears us of this deed.

[@andrewcamden]

@@draxxzakuto5735 do you know something that neither Tolkien nor Lewis ever did? Neither made a mass-murdering, predatory creep the hero of one of their epics. With infinitely many possible heroes, why CHOOSE to create a character like that AND make him a superhero whom the audience is supposed to root for? Can you imagine any society other than our current morally bankrupt one in which someone could make stories like that and expect normal people to read them?

[@draxxzakuto5735]

@@andrewcamden most of us don't read books to have our world view stroked. We enjoy stories and worlds that make us think outside the box we exist in here on earth. How could anyone be interested in a psychpath?? Like dexter? Like Dahmer? The things have been topping charts for ages? You're simply showing your opinion isn't worth much.

[@RidleyCinema]

"We're writing the book Tolkien never wrote" theres a reason he never wrote this😆

[@estevesfilmandgaming3115]

The book he WOULDN’T write let’s make that clear.

[@theycallmethedude.]

😂 Exactly!!

[@Gravewhisper]

"You have to turn your brain off to enjoy this show." Nathan, you're absolutely right, and a lot of people are absolutely trained to do just that. From Michael Bay to Marvel and Star Wars, "turn your brain off and look at the pretty pictures" is exactly the kind of media that is raking in millions these days. Substance has lost, people just want to consume and relax, not think and engage.

[@jameshildebrand907]

It has been over 10 years now that I dropped all this hollywood type television and movies. My TV has a good layer of dust on it from never being used anymore. It really boiled down to predictability. I began predicting what a show was going to do before watching it, then being confirmed correct. The story writing is currently so terrible that one no longer needs to watch to see what will happen. So all that is left is "pretty pictures". The irony is how they attempt to use FOMO to try and convince you to watch, but how can I have FOMO when _I literally have correctly predicted the show!_

[@nalublackwater9729]

Bold of you to assume they have a brain to turn off...

[@KamalaKackles]

Hay now, Bay has made some really good dumb movies

[@chaptermasterpedrokantor1623]

By today's standards Michael Bay makes movies of Shakespearean quality. Just plain stupid turn off your brain entertainment is now the gold standard compared to the political propaganda we get today. Mikheil Chiaureli, Stalin's favorite director, would be proud of what is being produced today.

[@andrasbesenyei8923]

You shouldn't turn off your brain for rings of power, you should turn off your monitor

[@RogueFox2185]

You know a story about a former Dark Lord seeking redemption only to be dragged back into evil by someone he cared about could have been a interesting setup for a fantasy series, as long as it didn’t have anything to do with TOLKIEN and the world he created!

[@irsichzobor1594]

With the writing maestria they showed in season one, this clown couldn't have pull it up, Tolkien or not. They could have made Annatar a complex character playing the elves of Eregion and even put this arc on Sauron without butchering the lore too much but this writers last talent.

[@grbdevnull5611]

Agreed. It would need to be better written than this show was, but there is a kernel of a viable story even in what they did. It just isn't one of Tolkien's stories.

[@SneakyBadAssOG]

Imagine hearing from Ian Mckellen voice-line like this : This ring was once a symbol of love between dark and light. I would fucking turn that off on a spot. You can do that in some other diluted IP, but evil in this work is EVIL with big letters. No redemption, no redeeming quality, just pure evil destined to destroy good. It's a direct reference to the evil and horror of Great War. Not the people on the opposite side (well I'm sure some of them were) but the very nature of Great War, the suffering, the despair, monstrosity, the darkness and the violence was the evil represented in Lord of the Rings. Evil is the corruption of good and even by Tolkien words, orcs specifically cannot be called "irredeemable", because that would imply they are part of the world created by the Gods. That's how specific he was. Do you know why everyone who were in contact with the ring and proxy to the evil went subsequently on the bloody ship? Because they were all shell-shocked (now known as PTSD) and there was nothing in middle earth that could help them.

[@user-gu9yq5sj7c]

No, I don't like that story about Sauron.

[@carlosAlvarez-gf5ef]

Then they would cry that its " fridging" or whatever it is. This entire show could be condensed to 30 mins.

[@kubuspuchatek7974]

Galadriel is actually the most sauronian character in this show.

[@totallynottrademarked5279]

It's almost as if they theme of doing bad things in the name of good makes you just as evil as the evil you are trying to prevent was well expressed in the show.

[@andrewcamden]

Still nothing as evil as a certain predatory "hero" in Shadow of the Conqeror...

[@drrickmarshall1191]

@@totallynottrademarked5279 It was present in the show, I wouldn't say it was well demonstrated. If anything the show did everything it could to gaslight the audience into criticizing Galadriels misguided (and out of character) actions, and that is why it's bad.

[@totallynottrademarked5279]

@@drrickmarshall1191 I mean sure if ignore all of the dialogue around such. The imagery in each scene used to express such and the flashback to with her brother where they come full circle and he tells her "You can't know until you touch the darkness". Then sure. It was totaly absent from the show. You mean the same "fans" that ignore Tokien's description of her in The Unfinished Tales? Much less his letters to fans, and notes for the amendments he was working on around her character.

[@drrickmarshall1191]

@@totallynottrademarked5279 The dialogue is terrible, Galadriel never touched the darkness, she acknowledged it and cast it aside. Present but not demonstrated. In the unfinished tales, Galadriel is described as strong, proud, confident in her own will, loyal to her people, incapable of being decieved and devoted to her family. The show demonstrates the first three, and destroys the last. The golden rule of story telling is show don't tell. They show her willing to leave her comrades to suffer and die in support of her own goal, not a admirable quality. The show then rewards this undesirable quality. Present but not demonstrated. First three, not last three.

[@absolutechaos13]

Not going to lie. Helbrand reminds me of a recovering alcoholic trying to get his life in order despite his new party animal girlfriend trying to get him drunk at every turn. I'm not sure that Sauron deserves a redemption arc but he acted like he was at the tail end of it before the first time we meet him, and Galadriel pushed him off the wagon. He is trying to put his past evils behind him, falls in love with someone who is making all the same choices. She tries to get him involved with the very thing he is trying to distance himself from. He falls to temptation in an effort to impress her, who then rejects him for becoming the very thing he was trying to avoid, despite being what she wanted him to become, driving him deeper into his past life. You can make your villains sympathetic, tragic even. You can turn them to evil due to an interaction with the heros. But to have the heros reject their responsibility, to reverse the villains redemption, just seems... evil.

[@nont18411]

It’s crazy that you just explained the plot of Better Call Saul and they did it better. What’s funnier is that Galadriel looks exactly like the younger version of Kim but Kim is way better written.

[@hafirenggayuda]

@@nont18411 probably my bias but, I feel this Galadriel never look good at screen. While the artist not ugly, she seems never show some "pretty look" in this show. Even Brie Larson still look good sometimes.

[@1tyrant100]

Damn Sauron got you too huh

[@fantasywind3923]

The complexity of Sauron as a character in Tolkien's vision surpasses far anything that these showrunenrs can come up with! "‘In my story I do not deal in Absolute Evil. I do not think there is such a thing, since that is Zero. I do not think that at any rate any 'rational being' is wholly evil. Satan fell. In my myth Morgoth fell before Creation of the physical world. In my story Sauron represents as near an approach to the wholly evil will as is possible. He had gone the way of all tyrants: beginning well, at least on the level that while desiring to order all things according to his own wisdom he still at first considered the (economic) well-being of other inhabitants of the Earth. But he went further than human tyrants in pride and the lust for domination, being in origin an immortal (angelic) spirit.’" ... "In the Silmarillion and Tales of the First Age Sauron was a being of Valinor perverted to the service of the Enemy [Melkor] and becoming his chief captain and servant. He repents in fear when the First Enemy is utterly defeated, but in the end does not do as was commanded, return to the judgement of the gods. He lingers in Middle-earth. Very slowly, beginning with fair motives: the reorganising and rehabilitation of the ruin of Middle-earth, 'neglected by the gods', he becomes a reincarnation of Evil, and a thing lusting for Complete Power - and so consumed ever more fiercely with hate (especially of gods and Elves). Sauron was of course not 'evil' in origin. He was a 'spirit' corrupted by the Prime Dark Lord (the Prime sub-creative Rebel) Morgoth. He was given an opportunity of repentance, when Morgoth was overcome, but could not face the humiliation of recantation, and suing for pardon; and so his temporary turn to good and 'benevolence' ended in a greater relapse, until he became the main representative of Evil of later ages." ... "Sauron should be thought of as very terrible. The form that he took was that of a man of more than human stature, but not gigantic. In his earlier incarnation he was able to veil his power (as Gandalf did) and could appear as a commanding figure of great strength of body and supremely royal demeanour and countenance. But at the beginning of the Second Age he was still beautiful to look at, or could still assume a beautiful visible shape - and was not indeed wholly evil, not unless all 'reformers' who want to hurry up with 'reconstruction' and 'reorganization' are wholly evil, even before pride and the lust to exert their will eat them up. But many Elves listened to Sauron. He was still fair in that early time, and his motives and those of the Elves seemed to go partly together: the healing of the desolate lands. Sauron found their weak point in suggesting that, helping one another, they could make Western Middle-earth as beautiful as Valinor. It was really a veiled attack on the gods, an incitement to try and make a separate independent paradise. Gil-galad repulsed all such overtures, as also did Elrond. But at Eregion great work began - and the Elves came their nearest to falling to 'magic' and machinery. With the aid of Sauron's lore they made Rings of Power ('power' is an ominous and sinister word in all these tales, except as applied to the gods). Sauron dominates all the multiplying hordes of Men that have had no contact with the Elves and so indirectly with the true and Unfallen Valar and gods. Thus, as the Second Age draws on, we have a great Kingdom and evil theocracy (for Sauron is also the god of his slaves) growing up in Middle-earth. He rules a growing empire from the great dark tower of Barad-dûr in Mordor, near to the Mountain of Fire, wielding the One Ring." ... "In my story Sauron represents as near an approach to the wholly evil will as is possible. He had gone the way of all tyrants: beginning well, at least on the level that while desiring to order all things according to his own wisdom he still at first considered the (economic) well-being of other inhabitants of the Earth. But he went further than human tyrants in pride and the lust for domination, being in origin an immortal (angelic) spirit. Sauron desired to be a God-King, and was held to be this by his servants, by a triple treachery: 1. Because of his admiration of Strength he had become a follower of Morgoth and fell with him down into the depths of evil, becoming his chief agent in Middle Earth. 2. when Morgoth was defeated by the Valar finally he forsook his allegiance; but out of fear only; he did not present himself to the Valar or sue for pardon, and remained in Middle Earth. 3. When he found how greatly his knowledge was admired by all other rational creatures and how easy it was to influence them, his pride became boundless. By the end of the Second Age he assumed the position of Morgoth's representative. By the end of the Third Age (though actually much weaker than before) he claimed to be Morgoth returned. If he had been victorious he would have demanded divine honour from all rational creatures and absolute temporal power over the whole world. To attempt by device or 'magic' to recover longevity is thus a supreme folly and wickedness of 'mortals'. Longevity or counterfeit 'immortality' (true immortality is beyond Ea) is the chief bait of Sauron - it leads the small to a Gollum, and the great to a Ringwraith." The showrunners and all those script writers are not capable of portraying that and it shows they lack the skill to make it believable! From something so complex, philosophical even to turn it into...what the hell we got in the show proves how little skilly they have :).

[@lmahu6627]

@@hafirenggayuda The way I see it, Captain Marvel is wooden so nothing could really mar Brie Larson's face, but RoP Galadriel just oozes bile; her sour expressions and narcissistic personality make her unappealing.

[@josephlabour8601]

I love how they made Sauron the good guy in this show. All he does is good things. Saves Galadriel, joins the fight to help the Southland's and is one of the key factors to save the elves.

[@isakaldazwulfazizsunus7564]

And there's just one gigantic issue with that: at this point in History Sauron already is a sadistic, mass-murdering megalomaniac who tortures and corrupts things for sport. He wasn't created evil, but at this point he's beyond recovery.

[@fantasywind3923]

@@isakaldazwulfazizsunus7564 yeah that's the lore, the complexity of Sauron and his development, is logical in Tolkien, his period of benevolence ends when his pride grows due to the admiration and easy way he can influence and manipulate other beings in awe of his power and skill, this makes him relapse into evil. By the time he arrives to implement his plan with the Rings he already has evil intents, he wants to enslave the Elves as the strongest race, to be his servants thatr's his goal! “Sauron had never reached this stage of nihilistic madness [as Morgoth had]. He did not object to the existence of the world, so long as he could do what he liked with it. He still had the relics of positive purposes, that descended from the good of the nature in which he began: it had been his virtue (and therefore also the cause of his fall, and of his relapse) that he loved order and coordination, and disliked all confusion and wasteful friction. (It was the apparent will and power of Melkor to effect his designs quickly and masterfully that had first attracted Sauron to him.) Sauron had, in fact, been very like Saruman, and so still understood him quickly and could guess what he would be likely to think and do, even without the aid of palantíri or spies; whereas Gandalf eluded and puzzled him. But like all minds of this cast, Sauron’s love (originally) or (later) mere understanding of other individual intelligences was correspondingly weaker; and though the only real good in, or rational motive for, all this ordering and planning and organization was the good of all inhabitants of Arda (even admitting Sauron’s right to be their supreme lord), his ‘plans’, the idea coming from his own isolated mind, became the sole object of his will, and an end, the End, in itself. [footnote] But his capability of corrupting other minds, and even engaging their service, was a residue from the fact that his original desire for 'order’ had really envisaged the good estate (especially physical well-being) of his 'subjects’.” -J.R.R. Tolkien, The History of Middle-earth X: Morgoth’s Ring, Part V “Myths Transformed” Text VII: Notes on the motives in the Silmarillion The complexity of Sauron as a character in Tolkien's vision surpasses far anything that these showrunenrs can come up with! "‘In my story I do not deal in Absolute Evil. I do not think there is such a thing, since that is Zero. I do not think that at any rate any 'rational being' is wholly evil. Satan fell. In my myth Morgoth fell before Creation of the physical world. In my story Sauron represents as near an approach to the wholly evil will as is possible. He had gone the way of all tyrants: beginning well, at least on the level that while desiring to order all things according to his own wisdom he still at first considered the (economic) well-being of other inhabitants of the Earth. But he went further than human tyrants in pride and the lust for domination, being in origin an immortal (angelic) spirit.’" ... "In the Silmarillion and Tales of the First Age Sauron was a being of Valinor perverted to the service of the Enemy [Melkor] and becoming his chief captain and servant. He repents in fear when the First Enemy is utterly defeated, but in the end does not do as was commanded, return to the judgement of the gods. He lingers in Middle-earth. Very slowly, beginning with fair motives: the reorganising and rehabilitation of the ruin of Middle-earth, 'neglected by the gods', he becomes a reincarnation of Evil, and a thing lusting for Complete Power - and so consumed ever more fiercely with hate (especially of gods and Elves). Sauron was of course not 'evil' in origin. He was a 'spirit' corrupted by the Prime Dark Lord (the Prime sub-creative Rebel) Morgoth. He was given an opportunity of repentance, when Morgoth was overcome, but could not face the humiliation of recantation, and suing for pardon; and so his temporary turn to good and 'benevolence' ended in a greater relapse, until he became the main representative of Evil of later ages." ... "Sauron should be thought of as very terrible. The form that he took was that of a man of more than human stature, but not gigantic. In his earlier incarnation he was able to veil his power (as Gandalf did) and could appear as a commanding figure of great strength of body and supremely royal demeanour and countenance. But at the beginning of the Second Age he was still beautiful to look at, or could still assume a beautiful visible shape - and was not indeed wholly evil, not unless all 'reformers' who want to hurry up with 'reconstruction' and 'reorganization' are wholly evil, even before pride and the lust to exert their will eat them up. But many Elves listened to Sauron. He was still fair in that early time, and his motives and those of the Elves seemed to go partly together: the healing of the desolate lands. Sauron found their weak point in suggesting that, helping one another, they could make Western Middle-earth as beautiful as Valinor. It was really a veiled attack on the gods, an incitement to try and make a separate independent paradise. Gil-galad repulsed all such overtures, as also did Elrond. But at Eregion great work began - and the Elves came their nearest to falling to 'magic' and machinery. With the aid of Sauron's lore they made Rings of Power ('power' is an ominous and sinister word in all these tales, except as applied to the gods). Sauron dominates all the multiplying hordes of Men that have had no contact with the Elves and so indirectly with the true and Unfallen Valar and gods. Thus, as the Second Age draws on, we have a great Kingdom and evil theocracy (for Sauron is also the god of his slaves) growing up in Middle-earth. He rules a growing empire from the great dark tower of Barad-dûr in Mordor, near to the Mountain of Fire, wielding the One Ring." ... "In my story Sauron represents as near an approach to the wholly evil will as is possible. He had gone the way of all tyrants: beginning well, at least on the level that while desiring to order all things according to his own wisdom he still at first considered the (economic) well-being of other inhabitants of the Earth. But he went further than human tyrants in pride and the lust for domination, being in origin an immortal (angelic) spirit. Sauron desired to be a God-King, and was held to be this by his servants, by a triple treachery: 1. Because of his admiration of Strength he had become a follower of Morgoth and fell with him down into the depths of evil, becoming his chief agent in Middle Earth. 2. when Morgoth was defeated by the Valar finally he forsook his allegiance; but out of fear only; he did not present himself to the Valar or sue for pardon, and remained in Middle Earth. 3. When he found how greatly his knowledge was admired by all other rational creatures and how easy it was to influence them, his pride became boundless. By the end of the Second Age he assumed the position of Morgoth's representative. By the end of the Third Age (though actually much weaker than before) he claimed to be Morgoth returned. If he had been victorious he would have demanded divine honour from all rational creatures and absolute temporal power over the whole world. To attempt by device or 'magic' to recover longevity is thus a supreme folly and wickedness of 'mortals'. Longevity or counterfeit 'immortality' (true immortality is beyond Ea) is the chief bait of Sauron - it leads the small to a Gollum, and the great to a Ringwraith."

[@drrickmarshall1191]

@@isakaldazwulfazizsunus7564 Not entirely true, he doesn't become fully "beyond recovery" until he is "robbed" of his Annatar form.

[@andrewcamden]

Sauron in this show is certainly a good guy compared to a certain character in Shadow of the Conqueror. He may be a mass murdering tyrant but at least he isn't also a creep who preys on [young people].

[@jacobq.2204]

Andrew here has a real hard on for shitting on Shads book. We get it dude, you don't like it. Time to move on and stfu.

[@tolkienfan9291]

In Tolkien’s work, Sauron’s teaching the Elves how to make the Rings of Power and his participation in the making of the same was all part of a plan that took centuries to implement. In ROP, there is no plan and Sauron would not have ended up in Eregion (really, Ost-in-Edhil) without contrivance upon contrivance. One, whether Adar actually killed him or whether he had some resurrection, he managed to sneak aboard a ship fleeing the Southlands (where no one noticed his pendant), which is just the right ship that would get attacked in just the right place at just the right time that he would be able to make it on just the right raft to encounter Galadriel. Literally, without Galadriel, nothing else in this set of circumstances could have possibly led him to this point. Two, in the vast Sundering Seas, Galadriel needed to be in just the right path at just the right time for the makeshift raft to encounter. Three, he would need Galadriel to notice the tiny non-prominent pendant he wears and be so curious about it that she will not let the mystery of it go. Four, in letting Galadriel take point on where they would be heading, he would need the raft to make it through a severe storm intact with both of them still alive -with all the tossing about, change in direction, and chance of losing the raft altogether-and end up somewhere in the path of a ship, which will just so happen to be in the right area, that will bring them to Númenor. Five, despite Amazon Sauron’s stated intentions of staying in Númenor and working as a smith going against the ultimate outcome of ending up in Eregion and forging the Rings, Galadriel would need to have her first breakthrough in over 1,000 years in understanding the mark Sauron left by finding just the right information in a hall of lore in Númenor that neither he nor she knew about. Six, in the process of that same contrived breakthrough, he would need Galadriel to happen upon the one document she would need to learn the significance about the pendant he wears for some unknown reason (seriously we do not know why he wore it) as being the mark of the King of the Southlands, and precisely none of the documents she would need to show that Halbrand is not the lost King of the Southlands. Seven, additionally, Amazon Sauron would need to count on all of these previous contrivances coming together to convince Galadriel that their meeting was the work of a higher power (though, really, that “higher power” is the writers’ collective) and that she would thereby push forward with absolute conviction. Eight, Amazon Sauron would have had no reason to leave Númenor despite his express wishes if not for the sudden change of heart for Míriel and the Númenóreans in general. Nine, again, despite Amazon Sauron actively working against Galadriel’s purpose and objecting to his involvement therein at every turn, he would need her to persist in insisting to bring him along and manage to, somehow, say just the right words to convince him to come along. Whereas book Sauron’s plan was straightforward yet subtle and requiring great patience, determination, clarity of thinking, and meticulousness to execute, Amazon Sauron has no grand purpose and actively works against what brought him to this point in the story. If he had gotten what he wanted, he would never be here. But despite his wishes, even despite him giving up his pendant at one point, his presence in Eregion can only be possible by the script contriving a change in heart for him engineered by one of the show’s worst-written scenes (and that is saying something). In this case, the contrivance is not an external one, but an internal one that makes no sense, but without which he could not have arrived at this point. Even his own will cannot ultimately thwart everything working out exactly as it needs to in order for the plot to get where it goes. Ten, for all of this to work out as it has when Amazon Sauron arrives in Middle-earth, he would need the army to be in the right place at the right time (despite no scouting and the complete idiocy of crossing that much distance in the time given) to save the Southlanders and, in order to create what Morfydd Clark herself called “sexual tension” between him and Amazon Galadriel, he would need to be wherever he needed to be and do whatever he needed to do to capture Adar and make the scene happen. Eleven, another contrivance that would be necessary for Amazon Sauron to be here is everything that happened with the volcano. Otherwise, he would have been a pretend king, however exactly that would have worked out, in the Southlands and gone about his merry way if not for the volcano being triggered by the most ridiculous of circumstances and ruining everything. But just like with the ignition of the volcano itself, one thing that these writers have been consistent about is that everything will happen as it needs to happen, regardless of whether it logically should happen, in order for the plot to get where it goes. Twelve, following this contrivance, he would need to get wounded (somehow) on the road just bad enough that he needs “Elvish medicine” rather than the healing Men can provide, while also being just healthy enough to not die during an absurd five-day ride (she said he was wounded six days ago, which was the day before they left, so they actually rode for five days). Without such a convenient wound, there would be no reason for him to go to the Elves and not stay among the Southlanders. Even the timeline for the trip is a contrivance, not only because it makes no sense (abusing horses that manage not to die for five days straight to travel the distance it took Frodo 48 days to travel without a horse, even with 9 days traveling faster on a boat), but also because if the time to travel had been more realistic, Galadriel, even as dense as she is, might have noticed something odd about his condition remaining so stable over such a long and arduous journey, even if he should rightly be dead if he was a mortal Man. But everything, even space and time, will inevitably bend to the necessity of the plot getting to where it goes. Of course, technically, one could break all of these points down into multiple contrivances each. But for simplicity, I treat each event as a separate contrivance, not necessarily every aspect of each event.

[@katarinakremberg1319]

That's a work of art

[@samwise8565]

Impressive breakdown 👍

[@leriava]

You're more careful with the story than the writers. They should pay you to keep them on track

[@thereluctantdragon7579]

I still can't make sense of why a maia "needs elvish medicine", except that Bad Reboot really needed to plagiarise another line from Peter Jackson's films.

[@abyssprimus]

You used more brain cells writing this than amazon did making the show

[@soso4169]

I just realized why the rings were forged that way! Because they had to be engraved! Narya, Cirdan's ring, bears the inscription " The sea is always right". On Vilya, Elrond's ring, is read " Give me the meat and give it to me raw". Nenya, Galadriel's ring, says "There is a tempest in me ".

[@starryeyedwho]

👏🤣

[@leriava]

Hahahaha great idea

[@madjoe8622]

LOL now that's funny!

[@joshholland8564]

I’m sorry what was that about Elrond?

[@madjoe8622]

@@joshholland8564 Search "Give me the meat, and give it to me raw!" on youtube lol

[@geordimullins4636]

Thanks for watching this in our stead Shad! Keep up the great work!

[@alhex576]

What they did to Galadriel (and Sauron tbh) is really unforgivable. They turned her into a bimbo with perpetual pms and him into some kind of misunderstood bad boy who would totally be a good guy if he was just loved enough by the right woman. Both were downright neutered. Urgh. They turned a high fantasy epos into some kind of third rate romantasy drivel. And they really think they did something here.

[@fantasywind3923]

This trend of 'shipping Sauron' is kind of annoying hehe, the video games of Monolith Shadow of War shipped Sauron with...Shelob of all folk! :) In humanoid sexy form :) and now this tease of Sauron and Galadriel, like straight out of young adult fiction/teenage romance story! :) Sauron of Tolkien has no time for such frivolous stupidity he is thinking in wider terms as a 'god' that wants to reshape the world!

[@richardrose2606]

And why did they do this? Because they were not primarily interested in telling Tolkien's story but first and foremost in promoting "The Message".

[@drrickmarshall1191]

@@fantasywind3923 Yeah that really was quite in excusable from those games. But if I had to provide an excuse, it would be that it wasn't so much "shipping" but a demonstration of Saurons decietful nature that Shelob was decieved. How Galadriel, a character in the books who was the pillar of resistance to Saurons deception, could not only be so decieved but completely oblivious, is just a demonstration of the writer's lack of care and knowledge for the work.

[@nightmarishcompositions4536]

Basically turned it into every trendy YA fantasy novel for teen girls.

[@johns1625]

Wine mom fantasy. Who would have thought she would suicide jump into the ocean only to be saved by the only handsome and not racist bad-boy white dude within five thousand leagues, Sauron. Lmao.

[@inkblotCrisis]

I still say that the plot was written separately from each other and glued together at the end. I pity the post production and editors in this.

[@kamenriderkfp6684]

There is one likeable character in this show. Adar. Looks after his family. Wants to build them a home. Real stand up guy

[@thistles]

Fights the villains. Frees slaves.

[@TheHijabiGamer]

I like it to someone going to a PC gaming store. They buy the most expensive gaming stuff. The most expensive chair, tower, monitors, etc. And then they go home and think because they have a $500 keyboard it will make them a pro gamer without skill and practice. That is Rings of Power. Thinking a lot of money can make a good show.

[@swagathan5]

Honestly, I have a question relating to this. Would a bad gamer have more chance to win with a super-expensive hyper cool gamer setup with zero ping or with some old computer with bad wifi and ping so bad it lags the multiplayer servers? Because the bad ping could give you some advantages...

[@TheHijabiGamer]

@@swagathan5 A total noob buys the most expensive stuff - isn't going to make them into a pro gamer. The $500 keyboard isn't going to make a noob a pro

[@MrMikellsof88]

There's a series of twitter posts that Gary from Nerdrotic quoted during his post-series review. The poster of the comments pointed out the exact line of convenient circumstances that lead to Halbrand ending up in Eregion. Which culminated in the final summary of "What this show establishes, in its utter fumbling incompetence and in defiance of the most basic of Tolkien's lore, is that the Sauron of the Third Age is entirely a creation of a deceitful, manipulative Galadriel whose cruelty and rejection drove a repentant being back to evil. In summary, Sauron is a penitent nobody and happy to remain so as long as he has a forge to work in and some metal to bang on, until a shrill, pushy Karen of an elf drags him back to power even though he begs her not to, then crushes him when he asks her out."

[@jamielandis4308]

Gentlemen, you deserve a special knighthood for your completion of this onerous journey, easily akin to Frodo and Sam’s trek across the plains of Mordor. As I’ve said to European Lore, thank you for going where I could not follow. We owe much to you, him and the crew of FNT. My friends, you bow to no one. I think your point on pretty visuals may prove out with the upcoming Avatar movie. Everything I’ve seen about it emphasizes how beautiful it’s going to be. I’m anxious to see if it’s enough. We’ll see.

[@valerivalirian4320]

This clown never tires milking it. :) Meanwhile, ROP, is already forming a solid community and fandom around it. As it deserves. While even the low potato bags that still enjoy the abomination called House of the Dragon are gradually starting to get annoyed too.

[@diyfitness50]

@@valerivalirian4320 you are joking right 🤣.....if not you just won dope of the week award🤡

[@irsichzobor1594]

@@valerivalirian4320 People who can swallow Galadriel jumping in an ocean to cross it swimming can form all the fandom they wanted, it won't change the fact this show is crap and a spit to Tolkien grave.

[@RedHood001-KA]

@@valerivalirian4320 Shad has written his own book and the new graphic novel based on that book is getting massive positive feedback. His channel on weapons is also doing relatively well right now. He doesn't really need to milk anything, only give an honest review, and people will watch... even you, apparently.

[@RespectTheSourceMaterial]

@@valerivalirian4320 guys don't respond to him he either trolling or thinks that the 20 people that talk about rop on twitter is a strong community. Don't engage with him that's what he wants.

[@PhilHug1]

The great thing about this show was it led me down a path of self-discovery. I discovered that I'm a masochist.

[@st0rmrider]

You mean the Rings of Power or Knights Watch?

[@luthasunspell8365]

There is hope, Phillip. You don’t have to flagellate yourself with bad tv anymore!

[@PhilHug1]

@@st0rmrider lol I guess I did leave it ambiguous

[@Werty-im8vo]

I discovered that I am patently evil😈

[@NovelPhoinix]

@@Werty-im8vo And fas*st adjacent

[@Belshay]

Rings of Power made me really nostalgic. It really captured that moment from my childhood when my math teacher used to produce a magical sword fragment to unlock an ancient pencil sharpener.

[@admiralcasperr]

Stargate is just a master thesis in show writing. There were some mistakes and misses, but a lot of episodes are just chef's kiss good.

[@amandag5072]

I never made it past the first episode. I walked out of the room after 5 minutes as it was just so bad. My son talked me into coming back and to at least watch the first episode. I've only been watching the reviews online since. I'm so glad I didn't carry on watching as I would probably have broken my tv in frustration!

[@realistic_delinquent]

I watched episode 1 and the first few minutes of episode 2. Realized that I was grinding my teeth to a smooth sheen and exhausting my jaw. Had to stop.

[@daCATgraphics]

Same here. Sat down to watch with the Mrs. I had seen the trailers so was expecting shite, but was most pleasantly surprised when half way through the episode she paused the show and exclaimed she thought it was rubbish. We got to the end and never came back. I thought the Star Wars fail was impressive, but the people behind this show out did themselves in snatching catastrophic defeat from what should have been a fools win.

[@ben_sisko2149]

There is a point to Isildur's sister... there are two big, massive, beautiful reasons for her to be in the show and you know it, Shad.

[@nobodyinterestingyou]

As lovely as they are, her two mount Doom's won't be enough to save this show.

[@Phanto5692]

I'm guessing neither of those two are her communication skills.

[@madjoe8622]

Female energy...

[@fantasywind3923]

@@madjoe8622 for that Elendil's wife would be enough :) it would have been more interesting to actually have the canon character of Isildur's brother Anarion, whose missing from this show! :) As many other canon characters, Cirdan Shipwright, Celeborn, Celebrian, etc. :)

[@johns1625]

Dark eyed brunette big thigh cheeked up grill master race

[@donkeysunited]

There are some good channels that discuss the other parts that failed, not just the writers. Eric The Cameraman talks about how the camera and lighting work was amateurish and didn't follow basic rules. Living Anachronism gives a great explanation of how the fight choreography and the camera work were complete failures, again ignoring basic rules. It's shocking how many different departments in the production were amateurs.

[@apan990]

and nerd of the rings gives us a good example of what a shill looks like, i recommend checking him out!!!

[@donkeysunited]

@@apan990 Thanks. I was wondering where the positive reviews were. It should be worth a chuckle.

[@MissKairelle]

@@apan990 Isn't he the fellow, who completely changed his mind about the series from bad to good right before another Influencer claimed, that Amazon tried to pay influencers for positive reviews? I wonder, what changed his mind all of a sudden. 🤔

[@nicokrasnow1851]

There's also a channel taking about how bad the costumes are

[@PeggyR70]

The costumes are awful. Cheap looking. A far cry from the costumes from the movies.

[@summer7603]

Rings of Power topped Halo, She hulk and Wheel of time and those are incredible stinkers. Also please think about making a game for shadow of the conqueror and possibly make it an isometric crpg like Divinity Original Sin 2. My favorite genre since its very niche and there's plenty on nonwoke ones still out there waiting to be played, just a thought.

[@amadman8149]

How do you take Tolkien, spend a billion dollars on it and get this? This show looked like it got its props from poundland! In my opinion the best bit of this was the trailers, as they warned me not to get my hopes up!

[@SoundEngraver]

It's called doing this on purpose.

[@jerryknuckles736]

Commies. They destroy everything for fun, and they're paid well to do it.

[@spongekiller178]

I never ever thought I would find anyone who actually loves this show and thinks it's a cinematic masterpiece, but I found another review where these two guys actually go into how much they love it. They really had not one bad thing to say about it. It really confuses me.

[@amandag5072]

Nerd of the Rings, by any chance?

[@spongekiller178]

@@amandag5072 Nah, it actually wasn't. I have seen a few of his takes but not much. The video I watched was from a channel called "Cam&Zay". Never heard of them and they are a small channel, but their review for the finale got recommended to me, so I watched it for shits and giggles. Go find their Episode 8 reaction and go to 31:00 and you'll see what I mean. And to be fair, they are pretty young, but I just don't understand how someone could think this show has no flaws.

[@narnia1233]

@@spongekiller178 I would say it’s probably because unfortunately a lot of new shows, etc. are poorly written nowadays. It’s really sad but I would guess they just haven’t read or seen anything that’s actually well done. It’s tragic really. It’s like we’re purposely trying to dumb down people today. Hopefully people eventually read good works and start learning how much better writing can be.

[@samuelaritan3766]

Poor writing, jump cuts which increase low attention spans, too many high saturation colors for dopamine which give cheap thrills, actors who aren’t as talented…we are in desperate need of a Renaissance but unfortunately last time the elite had a desire for universal elevation and that is not the case today.

[@spongekiller178]

@@willparker8498 That’s honestly what I thought too. I didn’t check out their channel but I get the feeling they were just going for views.

[@ryanmcdaniel6744]

It's been amazing to see your journey from Shadiversity to the issues with KZbin to Knight's Watch! Really appreciate the effort you guys all put into these videos!

[@Maehedrose]

The '80s had the balance between visuals and storytelling down pat, that's why so many people remember '80s cinema so fondly and why they are desperately trying to recreate it (and mostly failing) in recent years.

[@mooocowcowcowmooo]

Hey Shad, I just ordered my own copy of Shadow of the Conqueror off Amazon. Gonna start reading it soon as I finish the Chronicles of Narnia by C.S. Lewis. Love your content and I hope to write a good story/ book myself some day. Take care!

[@Shamrock797]

That’s going to be a jarring shift from Narnia to Shadow of the Conqueror! 😂 But seriously, I love both, and I think you will too.

[@moseszero3281]

There is NO WAY to make this more canonnical in season 2 without just ignoring season one and starting over.

[@Belshay]

True, the lore is gone. I assume by making the show more canonical, they mean more howitzers.

[@NostalGamation]

The real announcement was supposedly "We're going to make it more comical in season 2, says showrunners." 😂

[@palanthis]

"Should we tell the story of Gorthaur in the service of Melkor, prior to his naming of Morgoth, Gorthaur's deception as Annatar, the forging of the 9 and the 7, his capture and time in Numenor, his leadership of the Cult of Morgoth before being revealed as Sauran, the fracturing of the men of Numenor prior to its destruction and all that?" "Nah, let's just make up some Southlander dude and ship him with Galadriel."

[@moloudmokhtari]

Nathan is great. So good to have him in knights watch

[@alexandrasarikova2244]

Thank you sooo much, this series (I mean your reviews, not the actual show) really made my life 10000 times better. Keep it up and never forget, THE SEA IS ALWAYS RIGHT💪

[@speciallasagna8521]

I waited until the end of the show to make sure, so now I can confidently say that my all-time favorite scene is when Gandalf, Galadriel, Elrond, Durin, and Bronwyn summoned their Megazords and destroyed the Death Star. The part where Dobby and Sarah Connors showed up on the Enterprise to provide extra firepower was so moving.

[@DarthEvilicus]

I skipped episodes 6,7 and watched the finale and I feel like I didn’t miss a thing plot wise

[@Phanto5692]

You did not.

[@ngVAT579]

Om my GOSH NATHAN! It got me in the first episode to. "Do you know why a boat floats and a rock doesn't" I tried at the encouragement of some friends and family to give it the benefit of the doubt and watch the first few episodes. But this scene literally killed it for me. I lasted about 1 minute longer and was like nope I have better things to do with my time...and then scrolled on tic-toc for 20 minutes. #noregrets

[@ernestomendez4728]

Good on you.

[@figjam9530]

"Do you know why a boat floats and a rock doesn't?" cut to Monty Python Holy Grail witch trial scene Eric Idle line, "Because it's made of wood?"

[@fantasywind3923]

I got infuriated by the elf children bullying scene...in Valinor literal physical paradise...before Melkor's evil poisoned the Noldor hell it makes no sense, at this stage the elf-children would be more like full of innocence still! And in general the deeper lore on the elf-children (which Amazon obviously does not have access to) how they are emotionally and intellctually developing faster even than mortal children etc. This stupid scene also made no sense, for we had a daughter of the elven royal family...nobody would bully those kids :).

[@Paltse]

But microscopical rocks do float under perfect circumstances.

[@fantasywind3923]

@@Paltse heh the amount of knowledge the Elves would have of microscopical things, and microbiology would be probably relegated to knowing of: "....like towers in forests long ago to the moss upon stones or the small and secret things in the mould." Jokes aside the Tolkien's version of Elves would probably know more of 'sciences' than the dumber version of the Amazon show ;) :). Jokes aside Tolkien's Elves would be probably aware of many thing, from physics and laws of nature starting to crafts that would be unataiinable for mortal men.

[@schimmelbrottitanson7645]

I just read the actual Appendix of The Lord of the Rings once again and I have to say. The Story of the Appendices alone as a "tale collection" is far deeper then the show; Loss to Hope, Defeat to Victory. You get more thrills by the simple actions described in the "Year Overview" Part of the Third Age: Lorien is attacked three times; the Lonely Mountain is under attack, the King of the Dwarves and the King of Dale die on the Battlefield and the defenders have to return inside the Mountain and await the relief forces. Thranduil and the Elven of the Mirkwood have to fight throughout the whole Mirkwood. Celeborn leads the Army of Lorien for a counterattack against Dol Guldur and Galadriel herself brings down the wall of the fortress and liberated the dungeons. After, the Elven consolidated there armies and reliefed the Siege of the Lonely Mountain. Don't get me started with the story of Durin's Folk. Azog strait up decapitated the "King" of Moria and branded him with his name on his forehead. And man, 1050 Third Age it says the Harfoots come to Eregion, they strait up ignore/don't care about the rights they actually have.

[@fantasywind3923]

I think I would have preferred if they made this "young Aragorn adventures" type show haha, as the first rumors spoke. All that material is already in appendices, Aragorn journeys and adventurres as Thorongil, service in Rohan to king Thengel (there would be chance to show off other lesser known characters Thengel's wife Morwen Steelsheen gondorian noble woman, their children, little kid Theoden his sisters etc.) service to Ecthelion in Gondor, young Denethor harbouring rivalry thoughts towards this stranger :), the famous attack on Umbar, Aragorn sailing on ships commanding fleets, sea battles with Corsairs of Umbar hell yeah :)...though after thinking a bit, they would screw up this thing too, they are just that inept! Heck but it would be interesting to explore early life of Aragorn, his journeys into "far countries of Rhun and Harad where the stars are strange", where he was "exploring hearts of men both evil and good and uncovering plots and devices of the servants of Sauron", his first crossing of Moria, his love story with Arwen, the story of his parents, Gilraen and Arathorn, Aragorn's grandparents Dirhael and Ivorwen etc.

[@Phillibetrus]

I would love to see you go through the Peter Jackson Trilogy in the same detail. would be a great pallet cleanser. Just a thought for if things slow down and you need more content.

[@dark3031]

Yea battle autopsy would be interesting. Like picking out some obviously bad Legolas moments, or some great Aragorn moments etc.

[@Phillibetrus]

@@dark3031 I was referring more towards the righting but a battle autopsy would be good too.

[@apan990]

@@Phillibetrus writing is perfection, only 'imperfection' in the movie really comes from over ambitious legolas gymnastics lol. otherwise pure cinema perfection on every single level, i mean they didnt win all those awards for nothing.

[@petriew2018]

@@apan990 If you really wanna sum up how good the writing of Lord of the Rings really is : Some of the best scenes in the trilogy don't have a word of spoken dialogue. That might sound strange, but for that to work you have to expertly craft a moment beforehand so that when it all comes together the audience just 'gets it'. they know the stakes, they know the motivations, they know the characters, they know why everything that's happening is happening, and can just live in the moment as it plays out in front of them.

[@Phillibetrus]

@@apan990 Yes, we could use the pallet cleanser of directing a good movie and showing just how well it is written. It is not good to only focus on horrible content.

[@sourstuff]

17:04 I think that’s why PJ’s Lord of the Rings trilogy is a cinematic masterpiece. It had both good writing and very well done visual effects when it was released. And still, many scenes hold up today.

[@MrMikellsof88]

Interestingly though ... Don't you love how Mckay (during a panel Q&A) answered the question about short-haired elves with "just like humans not every elf is the same" ... but then we watch the show and LITERALLY the only male elf in the show with long hair is Gil-Galad.

[@quagsiremcgee1647]

"Elves don't have healers" *Sad Elrond noises*

[@daCATgraphics]

This show merely acts as a testament to the majestic quality, talent, skill and love endured by Peter Jackson and his wonderful team that gave us the greatest trilogy ever put to film.

[@moparman1692]

Tolkien would turn in his grave if he ever read your comment. To be kind.. Jacksons interpretation of the trilogy leaves A LOT to be desired. But.. compared to this farse of a TV show.. you may be right.

[@alasdaircook3030]

Imagine that while creating the rings they have elves chanting and singing their magic and they needed to sacrifice their corporeal forms because they used so much magic. Something like that would actually convey what went into these rings. Also, conversely, Sauron forging the one ring UNDER mount doom (especially if the mural was the passage as shad suggested) couldve made such a reaction that it caused the eruption

[@EnsignRedshirtRicky]

Amazon needs to throw a wake (with an open bar) for Season One, if they want anyone to even risk seeing anything of Season Two. Keeping the show runners clearly indicates this show will not improve to any great degree.

[@nillynush4899]

They've already broken what little lore they had rights to, over their global shipping monopoly knee. Screw em, Tolkien himself would hate nature-destroying Amazon.

[@korycassel5197]

I can't with Guyladriel - "Gonna stab me a DEBUL with my phallus/dagger!" Galadriel Lady of Light, thousands of years old, one of the wisest beings in Middle Earth and that's her plan? OK.🤣

[@lordforce5546]

The elven king deserves more praise. He could tell that Galadriel would ruin both middle earth by pushing Sauron forward, and the show by being unlikeable in every way.

[@kauetadaieski3131]

The true hero

[@joehonan1773]

Sometimes the wind that wants to blow out the fire etc.

[@MacheteCrunk]

I have had far more fun watching the reviews of this than I ever could if I had watched it. Thank you so much.

[@frankvandorp2059]

Maybe it's just a feeling, but whenever I compare the acting in House of the Dragon with the acting in Rings of Power, I think the difference in quality isn't purely due to skill. It just looks like the actors in HotD passionately care for their characters, they don't like it when they think their characters are misrepresented, and they just look like they were having a great time on set. While in RoP, the actors just seem like they're doing a day job and are glad to be going home in the evening. The most passionate ones are the actors who obsess over diversity all day, because their passion isn't acting, their passion is simply being diverse and feeling pleased about it.

[@glennross85]

Even as an original fantasy this would be a fail. Elrond and Celebrimbor stroll up to Khazad Dum and anybody who ever read a fantasy book will say "No travel stained clothes? No horses? No packs? Not even a water skin?" This was written by people who never even took a walk in the woods and they are supposed to understand Tolkien?

[@happylobsterpatatas]

Adar is the only character for which we can have some empathy in this show...

[@PatriceBoivin]

They had a billion dollars. One KZbinr said this may have been a sort of investment con -- get Tolkien rights, declare it's going to be true to the books, gather investors, then don't spend the money on making the show itself. The question for all these investors would then become: Where did all the money go?! It wasn't spent on writers, actors, sets, or the costumes. If I was an investor I would want to know.

[@captain_context9991]

I went back to the actual LOTR and the creation of the rings looks extremely different there.

[@Spiceodog]

I love this channel cuz it has variety. You have the one who’s critical by nature , you have the one that represents the average viewer , you have the Tolkien nerd, and you have the successful author. And every single one of them hated it

[@chesschad81]

Wait, who's the Tolkien nerd?

[@Spiceodog]

@@chesschad81 Mrs Brooks

[@chesschad81]

@@Spiceodog Shad's wife (AKA "The Lady")? Sorry, I'm a bit new around here.

[@lisacook8235]

The show is so monstrously (or hilariously?) perverse that after the raft scene in the finale you get the suspicion that the showrunners mean the watcher to say "Cheer up there Hal! She didn't deserve you anyway!" (At least Sauron didn't propose genocide!)

[@kuro_b5978]

You need to do a video trying to decide which is better (or worse), Amazon's Rings of Power or Amazon's Wheel of Time.

[@kithrynevergreen]

One desaster behind us. Another one in the form of the second season of wheel of time just ahead. We will need your watch to get through this! 🙏 It could have been really funny. They abandon the tower, prepare the village to defend, wait for the orcs... and they don't come. Instead they all die in the village when the vulcano goes up because adar broke the dam without the thingy. It actually could have been cool, when galadriel arrived with the numenorians to find the southlands already destroyed, so she really could feel bad for being too late. So she takes the numenorians and Halbrand to the elfes and they start researching a way to reclaim the southlands and halbrand would help (of cause, since he is supposed to rule there) to find the solution and so they start forging the rings on the idea that they could be used as a weapon against the evil in mordor.

[@hugorosa307]

I cannot agree more with you two... a good history can overcome any image, inclunding no image at all... that is the reality of a good book.

[@korycassel5197]

You can tell the art reflects true fantasy enthusiasm with all the swept hilt broadswords. LOL.

[@APsychicMonkey]

I think the people who "like" the show aren't actually watching it, they're looking at their phone, glancing up every once in a while, saying "Oh, that looks nice," then going back to doing chores or browsing Twitter. That and malicious bad faith actors who love the "message", the quality of the show is irrelevant to them. Fortunately, the show's performance has been very poor. In the end, this is a crushing victory for fans everywhere!

[@stevenritchie3399]

I would have started the show with the arrival of Gandalf in Middle-earth in the Third Age and his first meeting with Elrond in Rivendell and then have Elrond relate the story of the 2nd Age to Gandalf starting with the aftermath of the War of Wrath, the building of Mithlond and the establishment of Lindon under Gil-Galad and Numenor under the Elros... and interweave a narrative story about Lindon, Numenor and the friendship of Elves & Men. Then the founding of Eregion and its relationship with Moria. Also, the return of the Numenoreans to Middle-earth and establishing of their first colonies. Finally ending season one with Annatar arriving in Eregion. No Hobbits. Galadriel & Celeborn would play only minor roles as would Thranduil as counsellors to Gil-Galad before they all travel east (in my season two) to establish their own lands prior to the Barad-Dur being completed. One can but dream 🙂

[@donkeysunited]

It was easy for Halbrand to be in the right place at the right time because he had secured a copy of the full script, hundreds of years ago.

[@walkir2662]

The instant VHS from Spaceballs evolved.

[@haleyschreiter9746]

An excellent summary of an excruciating season! Thank you again, Shad & Nathan, for all the hard work you've put into this series, so that innocent bystanders like me can avoid it 😊

[@jeffreyfrey1936]

The dwarves were able to create an entrance to Moria that responded to voice command: speak "friend" and enter. Why tie the function of the dam to a physical object in the first place when a word or phrase could be used to trigger its destruction?

[@RobAryeeArc]

5:00 Nathan comes across as the "calm, cool, and collective" type, which is what makes this hilarious. Thanks for all the effort reviewing this dumper-fire.

[@maxrobe]

Sphinx quotes (Mystery Men) "You must be like the wolf pack... not like the six-pack." "You must lash out with every limb, like the octopus who plays the drums." "Learn to hide your strikes from your opponent and you'll more easily strike his hide." "When you can balance a tack hammer on your head, you will head off your foes with a balanced attack." "He who questions training only trains himself at asking questions." "Casanova will have many weapons. To defeat him we will need to have more than forks and flatulence." "Do not go there, my son! When you doubt your powers, you give power to your doubts." "We are number one! All others are number two, or lower." "Sometimes, the true hero is the one with the courage to run away." "When you care for what is on the outside, what is inside cares for you." "To learn my teachings, I must first teach you how to learn."

[@RespectTheSourceMaterial]

Shad have you seen the new article where the showrunners say that they will follow the books in season 2? It's the biggest admition of failure I've seen and they basically say that they didn't follow the books in s1 because they didn't want to. Before this show aired they always said their strategy was to go back to the book, go back to the book, go back to the book. Now they admit that this was a lie. Might want to look into it they are completely shameless. Edit: shad talks about it at 47 minutes.

[@tayh.6235]

Seriously? Please link

[@Alex_Fahey]

If that is true, I bet you Bezo's Eye of Amazon was directed towards them after RoP was revealed to be bad. His children apparently like LotR, so Bezo cares, too

[@JamieHitt]

They could have come close to saving this show if they had hired Cate Blanchett to do sporadic narrations throughout the episodes. Describing the cities, describing the voyages, describing the journeys, describing her thoughts at the time. Etc. etc. That way they could have made everything seem much more epic and given detail to the passage of time. And having it done as if this was how SHE “remembered” those events unfolding. It would’ve justified condensing the timelines and everything. Not to mention the gravitas offered…certifying the show in the voice of the Galadriel we remember. Or, …just imagine… It all starts off with this being a story being told by Galadriel to a young child. There would be no need for absolute specifics… Timelines could be condensed… Etc. etc. …and we would all be along for the ride. It would have justified everything. And 99% of my complaints would have evaporated. Her narrations, as she tells the story, would break the fourth wall from time to time… as narrations often do. Where she is speaking directly to the audience. She would mention how this isn’t “exactly” as it happened,… but many re-tellings of history are often this way. That kind of thing. I think very many of us would have loved it. And due to the approach,… We would have allowed it to have it’s discrepancies …no matter how egregious. What do you think? Do you agree?

[@dariovirga7711]

Uhm... not a bad idea at all!

[@lordporpoise8761]

13:20 What do you mean there isn't a single likable character in this? Halbrand/Sauron was a pleasant and likeable the entire way through the show!

[@korycassel5197]

Team Adar here.

[@michaelearl6765]

Maybe I'm insane but I actually thought the villains were decent. Adar was deeply f$&#ed up, but given his screwed up situation he was arguably sort of trying to do the right thing for those he felt responsible for. And Sauron where you can't quite tell if he's a manipulative sociopath or a maniac who just doesn't get why people won't let him be god-king so he can make everything perfect, or both, worked for me.

[@OrkarIsberEstar]

Adar looked for the sword because he wanted to bring water back ot mordor, they had a famine, no crops, no grass, no cows hence no calcium. they are so pale because of insane vitamin D deficiency. All they wanted is end the drought and live in peace

[@OneRedKraken]

The forging of the rings both confused and annoyed the hell out of me: - They never explained how this is supposed to resolve the Elven Plague (everyone will wear them for a bit?) - If they only intended to forge 1 thing initially. Why was there 3 gems prepared in advance? - Galadriel doesn't warn anyone about Sauron's plan with the rings. - Master Elven smith is surprised at the idea to use alloys. - Forge explodes after failing to make the Mithril alloy. But yet they still have the same nugget intact after the fact? - The analogy for the alloy made my brain rot. (It needs to be coaxed.... fml) - The analogy of "2 divides but 3 balances" also made my brain rot. - Galadriel's dagger being the only source of metal from Valinor in the bastion of elves on Middle Earth seems unlikely. - Ultimately Galadriel's only sacrifice in this entire season was to give away her dagger. That's it. Not related to the Forging for the rings, but more so about the series as a whole. They had a chance to show us that Galadriel learned some kind of lesson and perhaps warn everyone about Sauron and start seeking help and cooperate with her peers. Nah. She gonna solo this mfker even though it was thrown in her face that apparently all this shit is directly or indirectly her pride's fault. From this to the Harfoots. The moral messages of this show are absolutely vile.

[@tun0fun]

All good points! Also, the dagger which clearly has a blade not made from silver or gold and has pearls adorning its hilt is just chucked in with everything snd it just melts into a homogeneous alloy of steel, silver, gold, mithril and pearls. Making the whole need for totally pure gold and silver redundant.

[@ringbearer1420]

Imagine if Sauron was on his way to Valinor to turn himself in whe he met Galadriel? Imagine if it was a drought year in The Southlands and that reservoir was dry? Or it was a flood year and Mt. Doom was created early? Imagine if the great minds behind this show had no imagination?

[@amandag5072]

I've seen far too many comments (both on youtube etc and other forums) that claim to be from "true Tolkien fans who've read all his books" and say RoP "is true to the lore". I wonder if these poster's are right in the head, as they must be getting confused with another show!

[@Alex_Fahey]

Well, those are bots. Superficial understanding of the lore proves that wrong. Even if you only watched the movies, you would know 9 rings were made for men, then 7 for dwarves, then the elven rings and one ring were made in secret by the elves and sauron, respectively. This show has Sauron leave before they make any of the 16.

[@totallynottrademarked5279]

Depends on what you define as lore. Do you consider only his published works sacrosanct? Or do you include all of his unpublished works, letters to fans, and catalogued notes as having overridden the published works? The show went the latter route and it angered alot of neckbeards that think they know Tolkein and what he meant yet disregard his own amendments he was working on before his passing. So is the show true to published book cannon? No. Is the show true to Tolkein's spirit and direction he was taking many events and characters? Yes in part. Is it true to his goal for the second age for it to have a rough framework and for people to add to it later and create a time of legend? Yes. It's like the debate about Dwarven women. There are several contradictions in Tolkiens work. - Aragorn says to Eowyn that they have beards. Gimmli says they look so much like Dwarven men that they go un-noticed yet never mentions the beards which means they could look like younger dwarves for all of their life before their male counter parts beards come in. - Tolkien commisioned the art for the Fall of Ereibor and has Dwarven women fleeing the mountain without beards. - Dwarven Women are not mentioned in the Bearded Races in the legendarium. So which is the right interpretation? The quote from a non dwarf which could be a joke? Or the abscense of them mentioned in the legendarium and the artwork Tolkein himself approved? You can see in even the inner circles of the foremost Tolkein experts that many interpretations are up for debate on pretty much every subject issue. That said the writing was lack luster for sure. They went too high fantasy. Way too much supposition. But they can correct that going forward and they will be more into the period in which they have the rights for. Though I don't blame them as they tried to get the rights and the Tolkein estate didn't give them up due to the shit deal they got on the LOTR and Hobbit movies. So we had to settle for easter eggs like Red Headed elven children sinking young Gladriel's swan boat at the start, since they couldn't show Feanor's rebellion in any way.

[@amandag5072]

@@totallynottrademarked5279 That swill isn't high fantasy. It is not even close to the spirit and direction of Tolkien. The show is badly written nonsense. Mr Blobby would have done a better job.

[@totallynottrademarked5279]

@@amandag5072 That is just your opinion. I watched ROP and the Trilogy back to back and after Fellowship it feels exactly the same to me.

[@totallynottrademarked5279]

@@stevena.7022 Tolkien clearly shows unbearded dwarven women and leaves them out of the legendarium as being bearded, but sure. We can go with everyone knows what Tolkein himself didnt apparently.

[@thereluctantdragon7579]

"Why does a boat float and a rock sink?" Archimedes' Principle

[@brendantheawesome1]

This is what happens when you make your Elves look like different iterations of Martin Sheen.

[@Paul-TheHappyRecluse]

Mark these words! The showrunners have set up Mithril as a ying/yang - good/bad power struggle that Sauron will use to gain control over over the other Rings.

[@enriquecarro8413]

So, basically, Sauron now is simply trying to catch up with Galadriel's evil ways, far superior than his, right?

[@regiman222]

She emasculated him with her evilness, so now he has to take back his "Dark Lord" title

[@aquapendulum]

Insert RLM clip: How does it feel to live long enough to see all your favorite franchises go down in flames?

[@aurex8937]

Feels great

[@chrisrose_krii_lun_aus]

Great job last night Shad. You guys are great together.

[@liamrobinson2084]

I think the Nazgirls were a triumph of up-to-the-minute storytelling. They really made it reflect the world we are living in today. Edit: grammar.

[@gurobano4179]

They are called Nazgals

[@fantasywind3923]

So supposedly they are from Rhun (so far East) and yet are white? No diversity quota there? :) hehe Jokes aside, they were completely pointless, I can't fathom who thought those were good idea! The entire Harfoot story is completely unnecessary, and lore breaking in an already massive lore breaking fest! Why the hell they must insert a Wizard and Hobbits into this!? Tolkien's vision for those earlier events 'older legends': "Nearly all are grim and tragic: a long account of the disasters that destroyed the beauty of the Ancient World, from the darkening of Valinor to the Downfall of Númenor and the flight of Elendil. And there are no hobbits. Nor does Gandalf appear." The fact that these women appear almost like Nazgul....when the Nine Rings HAVE NOT YET been forged is laughable :) at least make them something else not this blatant rip off heheh, or at least make them already wraiths, lesser wraiths victims of Morgul-knife or something or Barrow-wights :). Sauron is Necromancer after all ahha.

[@carlothecoffeeguy3778]

Love the new blue swords!

[@Alfreduss]

My biggest issue with this show is how a 1B dollar show fails to show the epics in size and magnitude (like it was shown in the Trilogy) Example: 1) Numenor, a big as a country, has 5 ships..... and it's an island.... and has to conscript volunteers to get a 500 people "army".... 2) all the refugees from many towns that fled from the orcs.... where like 50?

[@TheBenzooh]

i watch alot of classic movies and i think about what nathan said. give me terrible graphics but give me excellent acting and amazing story.

[@Anna-fw7lm]

The 2nd season is gonna work if they say that the sickness and the mithril thing was all a scam, that Halbrand was raised and brainwashed to believe he was Sauron, and the real Sauron was disguised as the Galadriel we saw.... they can say that we didn't see her husband because he was out there still searching for the real galadriel, bound somewhere by dark magic. If they make Celeborn come back with the real Galadriel, Sauron shapeshift from the 'fake galadriel' to himself, Halbrand go crazy consumed by evil and the myth or mithril crumble...then there's hope for the plot and the continuity.

[@ReesesPieces81]

I stopped watching after episode 3 and thus saved my brain a lot of trauma.

[@MrSuckeragi]

Hey Shad, I hope your projects do well and that you could start a real graphic novel series of your own. Maybe you could eventually do a cross-over with the Isom universe and that would be awesome!

[@Harbinger359]

Hollywood could never have written this story; Amazon could never have written this story. The story of the Rings of Power and the Downfall of Numenor is a story of Man's Hubris, of over-reliance on technologies and attempting to use them to dominate the Earth and bend it to our will, and of the inherent dangers in this effort. It is a story of evil hidden behind a smile, of a world where darkness roils beneath a veneer of prosperity and grandiose displays of friendship and the false sense of security brought forth by times of unprecedented peace. It is a story of how dark powers can easily take advantage of those with even the best of intentions, and more intellect than wisdom. It is a story of "delving too greedily and too deep". It is a story all too applicable to our times. That is why they could never write it; if they did, they would be the villains. Of course, they ended up being the villains in the story they did write anyway.

[@LBrobie]

the whole "mystery box" method of storytelling was what drove me nuts with the show "Lost". i don't know if you guys, Shad and Nathan, ever watched Lost, but if you did, you'd see the similarities between it and this show. JarJar Abrams was involved in Lost so it's no wonder why his acolytes would use that same "mystery box" method in this show.

[@bartolo498]

I have not watched RoP, the reviews were simply too horrid from the beginning. But in fairness to JJA, "Lost" had 2 or 3 pretty good seasons before they "lost it"... Unfortunately, the deterioriation and ending casts the beginning into a bad light, so I will never want to re-watch it although I was a huge fan for a few years. Similarly, Alias, although not such a trainwreck as lost and a show where hunting McGuffins and mystery boxes was acceptable for me.

[@orcapodstudio-retronaut]

I think the greatest crime against tokens work,is that dwarf queen does not have a beard

[@collinwillsey354]

I find it funny that Nathan said he'd stop watching after the boat line if he wasn't reviewing. I knew it was going to be crap after that line, stopped after the hobbit scene.

[@martinflanigan650]

Your reviews have been great! They are the standard all other reviews are judged by. My friday's have been watch ROP and then go spend 3 hours with Shad and Nathan! The writing is strictly B movie level with state of the art special effects. The biggest miss of the finale was missing on a humbling moment of character growth in Galadriel. They show her give up her brothers dagger but keep the secret of her failure to see the enemy they sought for 1000 years right in front of her nose. So much for growth! Sure would be tactically wise to inform your allies that the enemy is within us! It would have only taken a couple lines when Elrond pulled her from the river after her confronting Halbrand. The confirmed Wizard can still be a Blue Wizard. They are on their way to Rhun. They could find his brother Wiz there and this one is a reflection of Rhadagast. A rose by any name would smell as sweet. We shall see.

[@johns1625]

The Harfoot storyline (God I hate that word) did not go nowhere. It went exactly where it needed to go to get Gandalf alone with a Hobbit again. You guys member Gandalf and the Hobbit guys? Member when they went on that adventure? And again? I member!

[@BryceKant]

I can think of a single likeable character: Adar. I was rooting for Adar…

[@Valhondrian]

They consistently destroyed the timeline, the story and the characters. In every single scene they were destroying one of the three items. In a way it shows a childish behaviour with a single minded intent to destroy a beautiful sand castle untill only a formless pile of sand is left. Only one word comes to mind to describe that : EVIL.

[@skullknight4579]

You know what, i actually want this show to continue, and to keep the exact same number of writers.....you why? because if the show gets canceled, all these writers will probably go to House of the dragon

[@TheMe0wsCat]

You guys missed the theme hit that Mithiril had: light (good) mixed with darkness (evil) makes super powerful stuff. Definitely a different theme than Tolkien's good vs evil... am I right?

[@emk3485]

I noticed it too and am very wary of all this mixing of good and evil, light and dark. It stinks of postmodernism.

[@TheMe0wsCat]

@@emk3485 I agree. It's kind of the basis for all the... wokeness out there. "Define your truth and it's true for you," etc. The one unforgivable sin is to go against someone's defined reality and tell them the actual truth. It's sad how permeated in our culture this has become.

[@OUTLAW1345]

I could never could get true first ep of Rings of Power it was just far to bad to me instead i decided to re-watch Stargate and damn that show is so good even do its aged

[@nestaron4064]

She said they rode 6 straight days with no rest. To make that ride possible they would of had to ride 140 miles a day. For me the worst thing besides the writing was how the distances didn't make sense and people just were where the writing needed them to be.

[@penmaster003]

Technically, it was probably closer to 4 or 5 days. Since 6 days refers to when he was stabbed, not when they left which was after the wound "soured over night." But I agree, this show has no concept of time or travel distance or anything related to making a story work.

[@Azdaja13]

Sauron is the only vaguely likeable character. Sauron did nothing wrong.

[@korycassel5197]

Team Adar here.

[@Azdaja13]

@@korycassel5197 I keep forgetting him. Yeah, he's the only one who shows any fatherly affection... probably why Amazon made him a villain.

[@korycassel5197]

@@Azdaja13 The 'kill the father' emotional damage dynamic between Durin IV and his dad is telling too. This creative team are still doing the 'evil dad rejects gay kid' tropes from the early '00s. Pathetic. And you're right, the 'villains' are all just these identity placeholders we're supposed to hate even though the plot doesn't have them do objectively evil things compared to any other characters. Bullshit identity power dynamic moral signifier labelling at work. That's why people with real world experience are like 'What? Why would they be the bad guy?'.

[@Azdaja13]

@@korycassel5197 Like, Sauron unironically did nothing wrong. His "evil past" appears to consist of "serving Morgoth". Okay... who is Morgoth and why is he evil? Sauron's goal appears to be to redeem himself for past deeds, and to fix Middle Earth by ruling it. Well, considering the Elves are evil, the Dwarves are stupid, the Men are evil as well, and the not-Hobbits are murderous psychopaths who are literally worse than the Orcs, Sauron conquering Middle Earth would actually be an improvement. His only flaw so far is that he puts Galadrrrrrielle on a pedestal and gives her way too much credit... basically Sauron is way too good and it makes him stupid at the end. That's his flaw (it is a legit flaw btw, but it's stupidity rather than malevolence...).

[@korycassel5197]

@@Azdaja13 According to the values of Hollyweird activists writing this show; Sauron's great evil is that he wants to marry Galadriel and rule with her by his side instead of Galadriel taking the lead with her own independent agency. It's just that shallow and stupid how their obsessed with gender roles and 'misogyny' minds work. They think 'Patriarchy' is the true villain of humanity epic high fantasy needs to explore. Comparing Tolkien's experience as a soldier fighting World Wars against totalitarian tyranny to divorced women bitching about their exes over Chardonnay their exes pay for in alimony is the gulf between this show and real Art.

[@rio20d]

Season 1 RoP compared to Tolkien lore, just to show some: * Harfoot is just one of the three breeds of hobbits ( Stoor, Falohides, Harfoots) - RoP dont consider Harfoot as hobbits . This is as per what their showrunners JD Payne and Mackay said during SDCC interview. * there shouldnt be two durin in same timeline, as durin is the reincarnation of the previous one. * Galadriel never been to Numenor and never met Tar Miriel, two characters in different time line, but hey its Amazon, and their excuse is because Tolkien never mention in the books. During 2nd age, she's actually in Middle Earth already married to Celeborn that she met in Doriath, was under the tutelage of Melian the Maia and later on bear a child named Celebrian ( a daughter) which later married Elrond - the father of Arwen who married Aragorn in TA ( Third Age). If Galadriel did go to Numenor, Tolkien would surely have mentioned it , knowing that her character is not a side character but one of the main pivotal character in Tolkien's lore. * The three elven rings ( Nenya, Narya, and Vilya) were only crafted by Celebrimbor alone without Sauron Knowledge, and they were the last to be made, not the first like in RoP The other 16 rings ( 7 for dwarves and 9 for men) were crafted Celebrimbor together with Sauron. all together 19 rings, plus the master ring, which Sauron himself created later on. *Numenoreans in second age, is already very powerful as Kingdom of Men. They are the descendant of the First age men ( The Edain), who took part in war of wraths with the Elves against Morgoth. They represent the pinnacle of their respective race in Middle Earth. They have very powerful naval forces and was able to set several colonies/settlements on Middle Earth like in Umbar and Pelargir, which really contradicts to RoP since in episode 3 , there is a scene where Pharazon said that "it has been generations since the ships from Numenor were permitted to make such journey to Middle Earth by the Elves." * Mithril is just a rare metal which is lightweight but immensenly strong, it has nothing to do with holding the light of silmarils, that story is a made up one by Amazon * Sauron is indeed a Maia . He can shape shift so in second age he was disguised as beautiful elf named Annatar the Lord of gifts . He managed to get close to Celebrimbor and the elven smiths of Eregion, though he was unable to influence Gil Galad, Galadriel and Celebron, because they sense that there's something a bit off with Annatar, totally different to Galadriel in RoP , since apparently she had no idea who Sauron is , as Hallbrand ( Sauron in disguise) * RoP seems to portray that Galadriel only have one brother Finrod Felagund, but she actually had two other brothers ( Angrod and Aegnor) none of them ever mentioned throughout the season which is just weird. They are both had roles in 1st age ( during Morgoth's reign), Both of them held the highlands of Dorthonion against Morgoth. Angrod and Aegnor were both slain in the Dagor Bragollach ( Battle of Sudden flame) * the Stranger which is clearly Gandalf is not suppose to be in second age. Most of the Istari ( the Wizads) came on Third age. However there is a mention by Tolkien in his previous writings ( he changed many times), that the blue wizard might be there during second age, he said "might". The line spoken by the stranger like follow your nose, is clearly Gandalf's line that he spoke to Merry in LoTR the rings. I still found its very strange that Gandalf would go to far east in the Land of Rhun, because in LoTR- Two Towers, this is what Gandalf said: - Mithrandir among the Elves, Tharkûn to the Dwarves, Olórin I was in my youth in the West that is forgotten, in the South Incánus, in the North Gandalf; to the East I go not." I still think the stranger will be called other names, since Gandalf has more than one name - . * the line that were spoken by the three witches/mystic in RoP is stolen from Aragorn, it was the line when he spoke to Boromir in LoTR: "I have crossed many mountains and many rivers, and trodden many plains, even into the far countries of Rhûn and Harad where the stars are strange" I guess I can keep going on and on lol , but yeah RoP is not Tolkien, I don't blame those who love the show, I still can watch the show but I will have to switch off my brain and see the show just as a generic fan fic fantasy rather than an adaptation of Tolkien.

[@paulrouleau1972]

Thank you for watching and reviewing this work of vandalism so I didn't have to.

[@woutervanbinsbergen3368]

I've never meen more in tune with my inner Gollum than watching the Harfoots: "Filthy little hobitses, I hates them".