A Conversation with Hugh Aynesworth and Pierce Allman

In partnership with the Dallas Theater Center, The Sixth Floor Museum at Dealey Plaza presented a special conversation with journalists and Kennedy assassination eyewitnesses Pierce Allman and Hugh Aynesworth. Allman, program director at WFAA Radio in 1963, was one of the first reporters inside the Texas School Book Depository where he reported live on the radio. Aynesworth, a science and aviation reporter at The Dallas Morning News, was the only reporter to be present at all of the major moments of the weekend of November 22, 1963: the president's assassination, the arrest of Lee Harvey Oswald, and the shooting of Oswald by Jack Ruby. Program was moderated by the Museum’s Curator, Stephen Fagin.
This presentation took place at the Museum on February 17, 2016. To see related films, photos, documents and oral histories from The Sixth Floor Museum's collection, visit our online collections database (emuseum.jfk.org). Or make a research appointment to explore the books, DVDs and other materials available in the Museum's Reading Room (www.jfk.org/the-collections/re....

[@MissPerriwinkle]

theyr both so wonderful....thx !

[@davemitchell116]

Pierce Allman was the speaker at career day for students interested in broadcasting at my high school in the spring following the assassination. None of the students wanted to talk about a career in broadcasting, but rather spent the hour talking about his being an eyewitness to the assassination. I didn't learn much about broadcasting, but regardless, I spent a 50+ year career in the field, having recently retired.

[@julianboone9542]

The woman who allegedly hit Stevenson with the cardboard sign admitted she was holding it however stated she was pushed from behind by a rush of people causing her to lose grip on the sign. Police and bystanders confirmed her account.

[@winstonsmith3070]

Excellent interview from two intelligent journalists. I was 13 at the time of the assassination living in NYC. Studied it extensively for 55 years. Hope to visit the 6th Floor Museum soon now that I am partially retired. A few points to make: One is that Ron Riland (who drove Aynesworth) had video footage at Tippet murder site at 10th & Patton. In that footage, one of the officers is holding a wallet that was not Tippet's wallet. Marie Tippet retrieved J.D.'s wallet at the hospital which I understand she has to this day. HOWEVER, Paul Bentley says to this very day that he removed Oswald's wallet from his pocket upon his arrest and in it Oswald had a Selective Service Card in the name of his alias Alec Hidel and a library card in the name of Lee H. Oswald. According to Posner's book Bentley asked Oswald "which one are you." Oswald replied: "you figure it out." Tippet likely asked Oswald for Id when he stopped him. Perhaps Oswald feigned compliance. When Tippit got out of the car Oswald ostensibly dropped the wallet at the curb on 10th street as he pulled as gun and then shot Tippet. A logical sequence... I believe Bentley went first to the Tippit shooting and likely, if my theory is correct, took the wallet with him. Bentley gets the call "a suspect is in the Texas Theater on Jefferson." Goes to the theater arrests Oswald but has his wallet already in his possession. He did not take, in my opinion, the wallet out of Oswald's pocket in the police car. It is such inconsistencies like this that fueled all this conspiracy nonsense to this very day. Moreover, the CIA covering up their dirty deeds in Cuba (failed assassination attempts on Fidel Castro); and likely Diem of Vietnam too (3 weeks earlier). The FBI covering their backsides (Gordon Shanklin telling James Hosty to destroy the letter where Oswald threatens the FBI for harassing his wife). The above along with so many other inconsistencies coupled with these "scalawags" like Mark Lane, Oliver Stone and Cyril Wecht using the assassination of this great man for fame and profit. An ignorant dumbed-down, or perhaps just naive population, buys into all of this conspiracy nonsense. Like Mark Twain said: "easier to fool someone than convince them they've been fooled." Like Allman said: "one guy 3 shots" it is really just that simple. If you would like to comment on what I wrote you can reach me at [e-mail]. Hope to visit the 6th Floor museum very soon. Thanks again for posting this terrific interview

[@rgrass2]

Great response. I was at the School Book Depository at 12:30pm on Nov. 22, 2019. I looked out the window just to the right of the sniper's nest. I think when you are able to visit the museum you will come to the same conclusion that I did. It was NOT an easy shot. Using an antiquated rifle at that distance shooting at a moving target it was quite an accomplishment on Oswald's part. Another quote that works well regarding the ongoing nonsense..."Never attribute to deviousness that which can be explained by incompetence." Dean Devlin

[@Conspiratard]

Great to hear from them both. I read a comment from T.F. Bowley's daughter not long ago and she said he is doing fine, maybe you could interview him if you haven't already. (Bowley was at the Tippit scene for anyone reading this that may not know who he is)

[@jude999]

Stephen Fagin is a great credit to the history profession.

[@marys33794]

Interesting interview with two veteran journalists who were witnesses to history. It would be great if the Museum could switch on the CC captions for this video. I am guessing they forgot to do so. 👍👍👍

[@ckom0007]

Great interviews. Great recollections!

[@ckom0007]

@James Barlow What do you think happened? Have you read (completely read) the Warren Report? Where do you go for information on JFK’s assassination? Do you want to know what I think? Well, like it or not here it comes.Oswald was the sole gunman! There was no plot, no Texas oil millionaires, no conspiratorial planning and no set-up. I bet you can’t even analyze one of those questions (truthfully.) Please baby!

[@teeniebeenie8774]

awesome interviews much thx

[@teeniebeenie8774]

bless these and others who come forward and share experiences: must have been a traumatic experience for sure.

[@michaelchmelko3166]

Also the walk from the sixth floor to the second has been recreated multiple times with everybody doing it in the allotted time and none were out of breath.

[@boblackey1]

@James Barlow So what?? I assume he means the conspiracy guys who claim Oswald didn't have time to go from the 6th floor to the 2nd floor lunchroom don't have a leg to stand on.

[@boblackey1]

@James Barlow You are such a LIAR! How many shots did Victoria Adams hear? THREE !! just like all the news people in the motorcade. Victoria was on the 4th floor. When Oswald fired his third shot with an Italian Carcano bolt action rifle which belonged to Oswald, he walked across the 6th floor, hid his bolt action rifle near the stairs then walked down to the second floor without getting out of breath. How could someone in heels coming from the 4th floor see or even hear or notice the noise if Oswald was making any noise from a man coming from from the 6th floor??!!!

[@julianboone9542]

Dallas people turned out to greet the President, a quarter of a million of them, applauding the President and Jackie, shouting greetings, smiling. At their arrival at Love field they were greeted by an estimated 4000 people cheering and wishing them all good welcome. There were no protesters or disruptions. So quit talking about a hating Dallas population.

[@ckom0007]

Let’s all remember history-it’s important to determine the truth without the noise of alternative theorists!

[@Ckom-Tunes]

@James Barlow Why, what is wrong with their stories. They haven’t changed (like so many others) one iota since 1963!

[@Ckom-Tunes]

@James Barlow That…is the definition of ‘nit-picking’ (It’s not like they’re the male versions of Beverly Oliver!) But, I’ve never heard of this discrepancy. Would you mind pointing out where you sourced this information so I can look at it for myself?

[@Ckom-Tunes]

@James Barlow You still haven’t provided a source. Whatever, you don’t think there’s a possibility that someone could have made a mistake ether quoting or hearing something incorrectly? Conspiracy theorists do this all the time. I’m not convinced that Mary’s got the entire story. Please, just point to some reasonable sources that prove he’s a liar.

[@Ckom-Tunes]

@James Barlow I’ve been looking for the information in Mary’s database…I can’t find anything. Perhaps you have better sources.

[@Ckom-Tunes]

@James Barlow Did you read what I sent you?

[@214jef]

Robert MacNeil claims the same thing about Oswald directing him to a phone.

[@user-pv5ur6mt3b]

Books by PierceAllman ?

[@pianobanter]

With respect to Pierce Allman, but it cannot be stated for absolute certain that it was indeed Oswald himself who directed him to a phone. NBC reporter Robert MacNeil also ran to the book depository immediately after the shooting to phone his superiors and he also says he was assisted by an unknown man, which some say Oswald... and the description he gave to police fits MacNeil more than Allman. It would really be about timing and who got to the phone first... perhaps Allman was before or after MacNeil or indeed anyone else who were situated at the depository entrance. I would reckon that phone was used a lot in the immediate aftermath. Oswald left the building by the front entrance at approx 12.33pm. 3 minutes after the first shot.

[@outsider2222]

Buell said that Oswald left the building by the loading dock

[@randyharris3175]

I don't think he did

[@TheListOf]

@@randyharris3175 lolololol

[@randyharris3175]

McDonald got his hand in there I heard him tell the story.

[@neuralmute]

Though I don`t share these gents' opinion about who assassinated President Kennedy, I very much appreciate their long memories, sense of history, eloquence, and journalistic integrity. They made for a truly fascinating and entertaining video. They are the epitome of those I disagree with, but can still hold in high regard.

[@charlesmaeger6162]

Great comment. You don't know people's true motives in giving their testimony about such a huge historical incident - years after the fact.

[@julianboone9542]

Most every witness says three shots were fired. Why isn’t anyone talking about the possibility that two guns were firing, three shots sounding as explosions and possibility another rifle fitted with a silencer. Silencers were available and in use by the military.

[@leemoore9933]

Maxwell Smart used then agent 86.

[@markrymanowski719]

The mechanics confirmed there was a hole in the windshield. They were ordered to replace it.

[@randyharris3175]

Nope it was a crack view it in the National Archives.

[@markrymanowski719]

@@randyharris3175 The original windscreen was destroyed

[@randyharris3175]

@@markrymanowski719 Wrong

[@markrymanowski719]

@@randyharris3175 You are correct. They weren't ordered to replace the hole. They were ordered to replace the windscreen and destroy the original. There is a photo of the windsreen with a bullet indentation in the chrome edging. They said that was there before. A photo of the windscreen from the day before was produced showing no indentation. The driver said one shot only missed him by a fraction of an inch.

[@randyharris3175]

@@markrymanowski719 They said they were not sure it could have been there before.Either way no bullet came in from front.

[@brotherderek]

Well, gents, I respect your experiences with this subject and the time you have put in, however, I can not ever deny what the Zapruder film clearly shows. JFK is hit on the right, front side of his head and then his head and brain and blood fly.....Backwards. This is obvious and this is what physics tell us should happen. Also, Mrs. Kennedy jumps on the trunk to grasp for body parts, because they flew from front to back. This would not happen if the bullet struck the back of JFK's head. RIP.

[@paulaharrisbaca4851]

I agree that all the evidence pointed to Oswald. Do we know Oswald was the person in the 6th floor window? Just as how do we explain how 2 jetliners crash into buildings built to survive a jetliner crash suddenly collapsed in on themselves within 2 hours...It's just..."there's something rotten in the state of Denmark"...

[@jerrymarbury9365]

Paula Harris Baca the extreme heat melted the support beams,it aint rocket surgery.a car can be made to protect its passengers from a 40 mph impacts,but if the gas tank explodes it doesnt mean the car cant protect the passengers from an impact.

[@SMDAHL]

@@jerrymarbury9365 have you looked at the melting point of steel I-beams?

[@randyharris3175]

Yes we do a mountain of circumstancle evidence.

[@larrylindsey1497]

@@SMDAHL Have you looked at the temperature that still loses 50% strength?

[@formermpc10]

Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it's impossible. Oswald fired three shots, two of which hit Kennedy.

[@popecerebusthefirst1547]

Hogwash......

[@julianboone9542]

Every member of the media agree with one another in saying Oswald acted alone even in the face of so many open questions never answered. Is that so strange? Would media people ever admit that not a single one of them ever followed up on the possibility that they were impotent in following through on the story that others may have aided Oswald or responsible for firing a silenced weapon while Oswald fired his own. The media clearly missed the biggest story of the century and can’t bring themselves to admit it.

[@KenDanieli]

LMAO

[@tinysteelorchestra]

Even some WC members have admitted that they WANTED to find evidence of conspiracy; it would have made their careers! Burt Griffin in particular had political ambitions and said that if he'd managed to uncover a conspiracy then he'd probably have made the Senate. And it was hardly in the interests of a journalist like Hugh Aynesworth to just tow the official line - see the effect on the careers of Woodward and Bernstein when they uncovered Watergate.