Living History with W.E. "Rusty" Robbins

The Sixth Floor Museum at Dealey Plaza presented an interview with former Dallas police officer W.E. “Rusty” Robbins. Robbins was assigned crowd control on Main Street during the presidential motorcade and, after Oswald's shooting, guard duty at Parkland Memorial Hospital. An acquaintance of Jack Ruby, he visited the Carousel Club on several occasions. The program was moderated by Curator Stephen Fagin.
This presentation took place at the Museum on October 26, 2016, as a Living History educational program for City View ISD in Wichita Falls, Texas. To see related films, photos, documents and oral histories from The Sixth Floor Museum's collection, visit our online collections database (emuseum.jfk.org). Or make a research appointment to explore the books, DVDs and other materials available in the Museum's Reading Room (www.jfk.org/go/reading-room).

[@razmo21]

Great interview! Stephen did a great job of allowing Mr Robbins to fully get his thoughts across, while propelling the conversation forward and making sure to follow the chronology and bring him back to important or interesting points Mr. Robbin’s was very interesting and clear and I liked the way he added little touches that painted a picture of Dallas back then, like all the movie theaters being on one block. Or the frozen pizzas in the back room of The Carousel Club. And Ruby’s reaction to getting a strike when they went bowling. Really fleshes Ruby out more than most things I have heard and read about him. What seems like a trivial thing to most, lends credence to the “impulse” theory, as Mr Robbin’s illustrates. . He was probably a pretty good detective.

[@jude999]

He is excellent.

[@carolbarraclough8714]

He is a true and honest gentleman . Thank you for these interviews.

[@JfK--OBJECTivE]

The SFM vet their guests really well, congratulations.

[@VTPSTTU]

Good interview!

[@mkii1964]

Steven, this is probably my favorite interview!!!

[@missysample4486]

He's such a humble and honest southern gentleman.

[@johntexas8417]

Good man

[@carlnash7200]

Great interview

[@Jay-vr9ir]

Too bad they did not guard Oswald , when he was alive as well as they did , when Oswald was dead .

[@TheListOf]

COMPLICIT

[@jb-vb8un]

@Thecpisp - and as always, ya have NO EVIDENCE .... HAHAIAHAHAHAHA

[@TimJohniLL]

Whoa touché

[@TheCream14]

These presentations are excellent!!

[@ericbaker9688]

What a cool old timer! You can expect similar stories coming from the DPD of that era. They pretty much stick together. And as far as the integrity of the matter concerning conspiracy they pretty much all go against it. Just to say it's balongna and don't make sense. And the handful that believed otherwise died mysterious deaths back then or got fired. So no I didn't expect nothing different to come from him being an ex Dallas policeman. Even though I was shocked to hear him say he was open to Lee's situation. But I knew he would be on point as the rest of the flock in more ways than one. A lot of them were on the beat pals and bar buddies. But it was interesting to see what he had to say. I'm always honored to catch these when I can..

[@winstonsmith3070]

Just to slightly correct what Rusty said about Ruby's activity on 11/24/63. Ruby was in his apartment at 10:00 a.m. when Oswald was supposed to be transferred to the County Jail. He was asked by one of his strippers Karen "Little Lynn" Bennett to wire her $25.00 to pay her rent (not to go to Dallas). Ruby got dressed and drove to the Western Union Office taking one of his 7 dachshunds "Sheeba" along for the ride. He made an illegal u-turn on main street and parked his car leaving Sheeeba in the car. He stood on line at the Western Union Office, not hurried, and his wire transfer was time stamped 11:17 a.m. He walked the 1/2 block to the police station and when the officer guarding the ramp looked away briefly Ruby walked down the ramp just as Oswald was being led to the armored car to be transferred to the County jail. Facts to be taken away here: a) Ruby was home at 10:00 a.m. when Oswald was supposed to be transferred. The delay occurred because Postal Inspector Holmes, instead of going to church, came to interrogate Oswald. Oswald delayed himself by asking for a change of clothes (the black sweater). b) Ruby was not rushed on the line at Western Union. Had 1 person been in front of him on line he would have missed Oswald. c) Ruby lamented that had he not made the illegal U-turn on Main Street and simply drove around the block he would have missed the Oswald transfer. d) Finally, do you think if Ruby went downtown with the intention of killing Oswald he would have brought his dog? Amazing how this silly conspiracy nonsense still persists after all these year (i.e just read the comment below by "Rob Francis").

[@Rohilla313]

That’s the problem with conspiratards. They’re so caught up in the nitty gritty they lose sight of the larger picture. It’s a classic case of missing the wood for the trees.

[@dickhsv]

@@Rohilla313 Winston, nice summary and statements of facts. As Joe Friday used to say, “Just the facts ma’am, just the facts.” Thanks for pointing out how important sequence of events are. That sweater change alone changed history. Incredible.

[@stevemaher7481]

Ruby had all the time he wanted. "They" were waiting for him.

[@shernitadee]

You believe Ruby?? So what he had 7 dogs in an apt, and the police chief was saying what a kind man he was that used women to make his money, he was affiliated with the mob having been to Cuba with a fellow mobster to open gambling casinos in Cuba. The police loved him, He took care of their every needs catered to them so they didn't bust him! Anything they needed from sandwiches to free drinks and nudie girls to comfort them. I will bet he had so much dirt on those Dallas policemen!! Ruby was skum from illegal gambling to prostitution. He was involved illegal gambling in Chicago and in LA. The police moved Oswald around so many times with no recordings or transcripts of any of the interrogations. How did they know so much information on Oswald the same afternoon. Being able to kill the President, put in the right spot, you know he would come down Main street through their coveted main square, Dealey Plaza all while being watch by the FBI Hosty, goes in to have a cheese sandwich instead of watching our President. It will all be over in a few minutes, he declares. The police announced when they would be moving him, changing a midnight move to a middle of the day with cameras rolling it was like all set up. All,at the least derelict in their responsibilities, no one gets in trouble, I'm sure they were congratulated in Dallas. Funny how he wears a white suit when they were mourning of course not the President, like the rest of the country, but they did lose one of their own. People were more respectful about what they wore back then. So much more edicate and respect. Women wore gloves and very rarely pants. Men were expected to follow edicate too. Why the horn blowing, at the same time he walks out. Seems the ambulance was just waiting. All so contrived!! Like a well rehearsted movie. I do not understand all the changes in the information that was given by such " professionals"?

[@formermpc10]

Are you saying Ruby didn't shoot Mr. Oswald?

[@willmartinez5496]

I like this guys answers and he actually dispelled my theory that Jack Ruby was part of a conspiracy.

[@TheListOf]

Most smooth-brained people feel that way...

[@ShangHighRoller]

We'd never have another J.D. Tippit.

[@davidarbuckle7236]

Great Photo of Oswald and the Officer. Interestingly of the 3 murders, Oswald's was the only one that had a legit Autopsy.

[@Caeruleo]

"Interestingly of the 3 murders, Oswald's was the only one that had a legit Autopsy." What about the autopsy of J. D. Tippit performed by Dr. Earl Rose?

[@davidarbuckle7236]

@@Caeruleo the original autopsy said the time of death was 1:09. They scribbled over that and wrote 1:15. Also the hulls that were called in and sent to the station were initialed by the police officer on site and they were from an automatic. But the bullets in Tippet were from a revolver and yet not the revolver that Oswald had on him in the Theater. Actually, almost everything about the Tippit murder doesn't add up including the witness testimony. Both Tippit and Kennedy had diagrams of the body. wounds. Oswald had photos.

[@Caeruleo]

@@davidarbuckle7236 "the original autopsy said the time of death was 1:09. They scribbled over that and wrote 1:15." So? How does that all by itself prove that it was not a "legit" autopsy, especially since that's a difference of only six minutes, a trivial difference in terms of estimating the time of death? If the difference was six *hours* I'd be suspicious, but six measly minutes? That's so trivial it's hardly worth discussing at all. Do you have any evidence that is actually of *significant* importance that the autopsy of Tippit was not a "legit" autopsy?

[@davidarbuckle7236]

@@Caeruleo Try to keep up. This was about the Warren Commission and the Dallas Police attempting to bend themselves into a pretzel to make it believable that Oswald was the killer. He was at his boarding house at 1:00 PM. 10th and Patton is 9 tenths of a mile from his home. Someone felt it necessary to change the official Death Certificate. Just LIke Gerald Ford changed the diagram of the back wound on Kennedy in his Autopsy. There is also the matter of the slugs taken out of Tippit. They did not match the revolver Oswald had on him in the Theater. (that is kind of a big deal) Nor did the hulls come from a revolver according to the officer who initialed them and called them into the Department.

[@stddisclaimer8020]

@@davidarbuckle7236 We know that Tippit called in on his police radio at 1:08 p.m when he had not yet encountered LHO at 10th & Patton. Thus, if it means anything (which it doesn't), Tippit's 1:16 time of death is more realistic (no matter who scribbled what). FBI firearms expert Cortlandt Cunningham compared the markings on the four cartridge cases (aka shells) with those that had been test-fired from Oswald’s revolver and found identical breech face and firing pin marks on the head of the cases, concluding that the four shells found at the Tippit murder scene had been fired in the revolver in Oswald’s possession at the time of his arrest, to the exclusion of all other weapons. (3 H 465-468, WCT Cortlandt Cunningham.) As for the bullets in Tippit's body, they were perfectly consistent with Oswald's revolver; but because the revolver had been converted from a .38 into a .38 Special, no bullet fired from it could be positively matched to it. The bullets, according to the FBI ballistic experts, were too mutilated to be ballistically identifiable. However, an independent expert, Mr. Joseph D. Nicol, said he positively identified one of them as coming from Oswald's revolver. All this serves to fry Oswald and does absolutely nothing in the way of exonerating him.

[@jude999]

Many elderly blacks I interviewed said integration destroyed strong black communities. The paradox. I hope the museum recorded all those cops he recognized in the photos. Tammi True mentioned the pizzas at The Carousel in her interview with the Sixth Floor Museum.

[@tombirbeck6412]

I love how these poor old guys have to try to use the current politically correct terminology to tell their stories. It must drive them nuts!

[@Mark-zy3en]

Rip jfk hard to believe it's been 59 years ago since Kennedy was horribly murdered

[@76reliant]

Why would he rest in peace? He was a lifetime adulterer, as well as sex with underage girls....

[@boztos6025]

This museum had potential l-and failed to reach it miserably.

[@stephenchristian5739]

WELL I GUESS WE SHOULD ALL REMEMBER TO THINK B 4 SPEAK ( or write) I WAS ABOUT TO JUMP ALL OVER THIS 10 MINUTES IN AS TO WHY SPEAK TO THIS NO BODY WHO HAD NO NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING IMPORTANT BUT DAMN THIS WAS GOOD.. JR WAS A 2 BIT LOSER A CLUB OWNER AT THE LOWEST LEVEL POSSIBLE & JUST ENOUGH TO MAKE HIMSELF FEEL IMPORTANT ( all he could possibly afford) YOU MEET THEM ALL THE TIME IN UKRAINE & THE PHILIPPINES, THE MOB WOULD NEVER HAVE USED HIM FOR ANYTHING THAT'S A FACT& ALSO (been mentioned by mobsters at the time) ALSO HE FITS (PERFECTLY) THE MO OF A SEMI HALF WIT, SHORT TEMPER ALWAYS JOLLY (fake to cover his anxsed) HE HAD JUST LEFT WU & KNEW THE LHO THING WAS GOING ON, HE WAITED SLIPPED IN & BOOM, HOW MANY TIMES HAS HISTORY HAD THIS TYPE OF PERSON DO THIS EXACT THING? ..MANY!

[@michaelbarnhart2593]

Your "caps" key is stuck again. ;-)

[@stephenchristian5739]

@@michaelbarnhart2593 JUST THE WAY I LIKE IT TOO!

[@janetphillips2875]

Can you elaborate on the " many times"?

[@BJ-mm9hb]

I drive by the book depositary all the time so am fairly familiar with what Karen Westbrook Scanton was describing. Karen said 1. She was standing right next to the Stemmons freeway sign; 2. The shots she heard were from behind her (19:27). Go to googlemaps, find the sign and you will see what is directly behind it -- the grassy knoll! The building where she worked is way to the left of her. Today's sign is different from 1963 one but its located at the same spot.

[@janetphillips2875]

If you really look at the picture she says is her, those shoulders are not hers, but is a man in a suit. And if you look at the picture that was rmtaken across the street at about the same time, shes not standing in the same place. The people are different. I doubt if that was even her.

[@stevemaher7481]

Sorry Rusty, Ruby had to get Lee. Or it was lights out for Ruby.

[@jb-vb8un]

DETROIT LIONS SUPER BOWL BOUND

[@TheListOf]

@@jb-vb8un JFK HATER EXTRAORDINAIRE.

[@jb-vb8un]

@@TheListOf FACTS & EVIDENCE - - - The most famous collision in U.S. Navy history occurred at about 2:30 a.m. on August 2, 1943, a hot, moonless night in the Pacific. Patrol Torpedo boat 109 was idling in Blackett Strait in the Solomon Islands. The 80-foot craft had orders to attack enemy ships on a resupply mission. With virtually no warning, a Japanese destroyer emerged from the black night and smashed into PT-109, slicing it in two and igniting its fuel tanks. The collision was part of a wild night of blunders by 109 and other boats that one historian later described as “the most screwed up PT boat action of World War II.” Yet American newspapers and magazines reported the PT-109 mishap as a triumph. Eleven of the 13 men aboard survived, and their tale, declared the Boston Globe, “was one of the great stories of heroism in this war.” Crew members who were initially ashamed of the accident found themselves depicted as patriots of the first order, their behavior a model of valor. The Globe story and others heaped praise on Lieutenant (j.g.) John F. Kennedy, commander of the 109 and son of the millionaire and former diplomat Joseph Kennedy. KENNEDY’S SON IS HERO IN PACIFIC AS DESTROYER SPLITS HIS PT BOAT, declared a New York Times headline. It was Kennedy’s presence, of course, that made the collision big news. And it was his father’s media savvy that helped turn an embarrassing disaster into a tale worthy of Homer. Kennedy would later embrace the myths of PT-109 and ride them into the White House. But in his last months in combat, he appeared to be a troubled young man trying to make peace with what happened that dark night in the Solomons.

[@jb-vb8un]

@@TheListOf eilitist racist JFK Instructors warned that in a war zone, PTs must never leave harbor in daylight. Their wooden hulls could not withstand even a single bullet or bomb fragment. The tiniest shard of hot metal might ignite the 3,000-gallon gas tanks. Worse, their 1920s-vintage torpedoes had a top speed of only 28 knots-far slower than most of the Japanese cruisers and destroyers they would target. BECUASE OF INCOMPETENT JFK FAILED ORDERS, a Japanese destroyer emerged from the black night and smashed into PT-109, slicing it in two and igniting its fuel tanks. The collision was part of a wild night of blunders by 109 and other boats that one historian later described as “the most screwed up PT boat action of World War II.”

[@janetphillips2875]

Any old interviews with Det. M.G. Hall? Now THAT would be interesting! He died in the 90s. This guy here, he is like a kitten covering up it's first pile. He says he didnt know Jack Ruby, but yet he knew Jack Ruby....pfffffft! Those cops know exactly what happened that day, and who did what and when. They throw Ruby to the dogs, say they never went in the Carousel Club, that it was a dump, unsuccessful, but yet the people who worked there said the ALL cops came in there, right down to ol' Mr. Roe vs. Wade, himself!! The Dallas Central Expressway was completed in 1956.

[@GregJay]

Yeah back in 63 Everyone knew their place and it was all down home BBQ everybody loved Jack, he wasn't runnin guns to New Orleans or the bagman for the mob, nah that was all lies! Lol

[@davidmoss4280]

Conspiracy theorists don’t like the truth, read Case Closed by Gerald Posner, all the facts are there.

[@TheListOf]

😆 🤣 😂 😹 😆 🤣 😂 😹 😆 🤣 😂

[@janetphillips2875]

I had rather watch paint dry

[@davidmoss4280]

@@janetphillips2875 yes people like fantasy novels that’s why conspiracy numbers are high, rather believe lies than seek the truth.

[@TheListOf]

@@davidmoss4280 You won't find it in Posner's book... lmao!!!

[@davidmoss4280]

@@TheListOf you obviously haven’t read it

[@TheListOf]

Now, tell us the truth...

[@jb-vb8un]

KABOOM, KABLOOEY KABLOOEY - OSWALD, 2 FOR 3 @ incometent JFK

[@TheListOf]

@@jb-vb8un Love your channel! It's so diverse!

[@jb-vb8un]

@@TheListOf From Goldwater to Trump to DeSantis, each "fascist" was supposedly going to be worse than the "fascist" before. Yet each time these frivolous claims never came to fruition, Democrats would call the next Republican politician a fascist, with the caveat that they "really meant it this time." Yet, despite all these warnings and doomsday predictions about fascism, here we are, in 2022, still waiting for the advent of the Fourth Reich. No one should take it seriously any time a Democrat calls a Republican a fascist, Joe Biden included. Such accusations are insulting and offensive. The only people who believe such outlandish nonsense are unhinged fanatics. There's no legitimacy to these claims and certainly no realistic fascist threat - and anyone who says otherwise is not a serious person.

[@jb-vb8un]

@@TheListOf Early Leaks About the Mission Tip Off Castro Even before the operation could be launched, however, Castro learned through his intelligence channels details of the American-backed plan. So did anyone with a subscription to the New York Times because on April 7, 1961, the newspaper published a page-one article reporting that “United States experts” were training an invasion force of Cuban exiles in Guatemala and Florida. “I can’t believe what I’m reading! Castro doesn’t need agents over here. All he has to do is read our papers!” Kennedy snapped. Although the invasion would lack the element of surprise, neither the CIA nor the White House called it off. Just hours after the initial strike on three Cuban airfields by the CIA-backed B-26 bombers on April 15, the operation began to encounter problems. The initial raid failed to destroy all of Castro’s air force, with six Cuban aircraft unscathed. “If the operation had any chance of success,” Rasenberger says, “the CIA planners knew the most important thing was to get rid of Castro’s air fleet. They could not have a beachhead invasion if the ships could be sunk.” Having failed to wipe out the Cuban air force, the operation encountered further difficulty when a planned ruse backfired. One of the bombers that took off from Nicaragua landed at Miami International Airport with its pilot claiming to be a Cuban air force defector. CIA operatives, however, had painted the bomber to resemble one of Castro’s and riddled its engine cover with bullet holes to make it appear that it had survived combat. The American hand in the operation, however, was quickly detected by reporters who noted the plane’s fresh paint job and the placement of machine gun barrels in the bomber’s nose and not mounted on the wings as on Cuban warplanes. “Immediately the entire world knew they were CIA-backed pilots,” Rasenberger says. “Kennedy realized any illusion of plausible deniability was gone. He could no longer pretend the Americans weren’t behind it.” The president responded on April 16 by cancelling a second round of bombings planned for the following day, which left Cuban air defenses intact for when the invasion force arrived in the Bay of Pigs the following morning. “The moment that Kennedy canceled the second round of bombings on Castro’s air fleet the operation was basically doomed, and everybody knew it,” Rasenberger says. An American plane that was shot down on Playa Giron by anti-aircraft batteries during the Bay of Pigs invasion. Keystone-France/Gamma-Keystone/Getty Images Botched Landings and Poor Timing Things continued to go wrong as the American-backed fighting force attempted its amphibious landing under the cover of darkness. When studying reconnaissance photographs, CIA analysts had failed to spot coral reefs in the shallow waters of the Bay of Pigs that impeded the progress of landing craft and disabled a pair of boats. In addition, one of the red signal lights carried by a frogman accidentally flickered offshore. When a pair of Cuban militiamen in a jeep spotted the light and pointed their headlights toward them, the frogmen opened fire with their rifles and machine guns, ruining the element of surprise. Further difficulties came when Castro’s aircraft sank two supply ships that carried food, medical supplies and ammunition. An additional failure of a CIA reconnaissance team to spot a radio station on the beach allowed it to remain in operation during the invasion and broadcast details of the attack across Cuba. With the invasion floundering, Kennedy refused to send in Marines stationed in Puerto Rico or a large naval force that stood at the ready outside Cuban territorial waters. However, he did relent in authorizing six unmarked Navy jets to provide air cover for one hour on the morning of April 19 for a squadron of B-26 bombers taking off from Nicaragua to strike Castro’s fighters. That also ended in disaster as the B-26s arrived an hour earlier than planned and found no escort cover, possibly because of a misunderstanding about the one-hour time difference between Nicaragua and Cuba. The mix-up resulted in the downing of two B-26s and the deaths of four Americans. With the attack fizzling and more than 100 of its members already killed in action, the brigade of Cuban exiles surrendered. As Rasenberger notes, Kennedy immediately responded to the foreign policy debacle by deepening American involvement in another Cold War conflict that would become a costly intervention. “The day after, on April 20, Kennedy ordered the Pentagon to look into ways to defeat communism in southeast Asia,” Rasenberger says. “Kennedy’s reaction to humiliation is basically to escalate the conflict with the Soviet Union. He felt he had to get a win and he looks to South Vietnam.”

[@stevegaines7761]

Steven flagon should be ashamed knowing the truth an yet lying to all the people an kids maybe he could be punished some day some how

[@jb-vb8un]

we will flush all toilets for ya

[@janetphillips2875]

Punished? No . Shamed? Yes.

[@TitaniumTurbine]

Disappointed in both of you. Steven is the most moderate interviewer in the discussion of reality vs. the conspiracies.

[@BK-uf6qr]

Interview was good but this guy is kind of a space cadet. No real introspection or self awareness.

[@willmartinez5496]

But he's straight up with the answers.

[@TheListOf]

@@willmartinez5496 Yes, if you dig mental fog.