A conversation with John Hoyle (ex-JW webmaster & JWsurvey creator)

[@beanm9948]

What a great guy! I think he loves you like a son, Lloyd. 😍

[@LloydEvans]

Bean M The feeling is mutual. He's an awesome guy! :)

[@cb5484]

I understand. I can honestly say that I've experienced more venom from ex-JWs during the painful process of waking up than I ever did during my years in the organization. It made things worse and actually made me not want to leave. This isn't to say that everyone is that way, or even the majority, but this is what greets a lot of people who are struggling to wake up. Like most groups, the loudest voices are often the most unkind and get heard first by people who are in the most vulnerable states. I really don't understand the vitriol and infighting, if you disagree with someone do so with respect and compassion for their feelings. You don't have to question their character, insult or resort to ad hominem attacks. The lack of care some people have for others is just astonishing.

[@grammawpayton]

Thank you for this interview, John & Lloyd - very enjoyable♥♥ You two have helped people with beneficial info, much appreciated. Also I liked the part about Barbara Anderson, i'm so grateful for her hard work.

[@adab9959]

I do enjoy when you do these one on one interviews. You ask good questions and it all seems very relaxed and natural. Great video.

[@paulconcadora9395]

That's what a great interview is, I appreciate your time and effort thank you both,

[@meritofapproval]

Very well conducted interview. I was a member of the congregation mentioned. That ugly and shocking episode was eye opening to many at the time.

[@johannestrexx4375]

I would like to know more about that case. Anyone have updates?

[@johannestrexx4375]

I meant to ask what happened to the elders who took a stand. Will they be writing a book or anything?

[@veronhs1306]

control freaks

[@meritofapproval]

Johannes Trexx They were ALL shown the "exit" door & "new" elders from outside congregations were recruited to take their places. It was a very tawdry episode.

[@jwsuicides8095]

John Hoyle comes across as a lovely chap.

[@outtadarkness1970]

Wow! What a great interview! Thanks to you both! ❣️

[@rodywithers3536]

Fascinating interview - very informative and warm-toned. Thank you to you both.

[@sundance8862]

I would be interested to hear John's opinion on the topic of how WT is responding to the proliferation of websites and KZbin channels that challenge their teachings.

[@jimbobaggans1564]

Sundance88 I would be too!

[@suzanne7063]

Sundance88 My Elder father told me that I don't need to get my information from jwsurvey when I asked him some though questions! Somebody had to tell him about it, seeing as he rarely gets online.

[@suzanne7063]

The Elders have probably already been sent some memos about 'apostate websites'

[@TheraminTrees]

Great interview. And as both of you expressed, I agree that it's important to have a range of voices. I don't think it's necessarily an unhealthy feature of any group that there's some conflict - I'd be more worried if there wasn't because that might hint at suppression. In any wide group, there are the same recognisable processed of forming, storming, norming and performing - coming together, often with a honeymoon period, then experiencing disagreement, learning how to deal with it, and becoming more practiced. On your point about the long-lasting effects, I must say - in view of the experiences ex-JWs have described - I've found an inordinate amount of forgiveness among those I've had the pleasure to talk with - including some of the folks present when I met up with you at Putney. I was surprised there wasn't more anger.

[@uriah4901]

TheraminTrees , Agreed and Nice interview and nice point made by John start at about 14:45 mark on this inter-tribe fighting in the exjw community.

[@LloydEvans]

TheraminTrees Glad you enjoyed it! You make a great point about discord being a healthy thing in any group. I guess the problem - not just with ex-JWs but with many ex-cult groups where those leaving have been drilled to have uniformity of thought - is not that members disagree but that they don't know how to disagree. Some are seemingly unable to simply counter a view with which they disagree with an opposing one. Because they've been trained to impugn evil, satanic motives to drive home their point they will present their opinion in the form of a character assassination. It's sad and incredibly frustrating to deal with, but it's a constant reminder of how toxic the cult mindset is and the urgent need to purge it sooner rather than later. Btw - I hope we'll get the pleasure of revisiting our Putney meet-up some day soon!

[@Cdray24]

I would do the same thing as a kid, and so did my daughter when her grandmother took her to the meetings. Got so bored that we looked up the scriptures reading them in context. Being bewildered that they did not match what the paragraph was saying. Being young not knowing how to express this to my parents..

[@gregfoor1586]

Thank You I really enjoyed the video.

[@JimCampbell777]

Great interview. Thanks to both of you.

[@southernbawselady7092]

AWESOME video as always John!!.. This is the go-to website for any doubting or just waking up JW!... Believe me, I can write a book!! 😆 The great interviews are added bonuses!! 💯❤

[@woke2025]

Thank you John for being one of the first 😀 activists . 😃

[@jasonw1900]

I just finished the video, and I've had this burning desire to start a web site and videos but have questions even more so after watching this. Are you ok with me firing questions and running my ideas by you? I have a very specific focus I don't see anyone addressing as of yet. I think we have exchanged email in the past and are connected on social media but won't make contact if it's not welcome. Thanks!

[@LloydEvans]

Jason W Glad you're feeling inspired! I will do my best to help if I can! :)

[@1955annemarie]

Go for it!!! You don't have this "burning desire" for no reason!! You have something to offer!! God bless you!!

[@swellrobot]

Thank you Cedars!

[@zachgordon]

In the borg, if someone doesn't do what there told then they are considered disloyal and the borg can't have that going on in a congregation. It's their way or not at all and anyone to do this and be autonomous in any way they removed.

[@GroupConglomerate]

thank you again Mr.Cedars!

[@SoFarSoFree]

16:10 "You might as well have stood naked yelling obscenities." Made me think of that one time when Noah did that!

[@sourcedrop7624]

some exjw's are very bitter at wt for years afterwards because they're suffering from untreated ptsd and dont know it. basically, they have acute emotional distress going on and they need to release it in order to move on. this is one of the reasons why I don't like the angry apostates. they fan the flames of people's problem instead of helping them get better. you know you're better when you can honestly forgive those that have wronged you. you know you still have a problem when you hold a grudge and get violently angry at the mere thought of wt, especially years after the event. we only get one go at this life we're living right now. why waste it being bitter at a few people who don't matter, when we can move forward unfettered towards our dreams, just by making a simple choice to forgive and move on?

[@gforce9132]

I agree with you but watchtower does inflict a lot of pain . It's not so easy to forgive those who are prideful and arrogant

[@sourcedrop7624]

Truth seeker - forgiving is not the same as turning a blind eye to misconduct.

[@sourcedrop7624]

steve Mann just to clarify, when I say move on I don't mean to forget your family, I mean to move on from the emotional headlock that people find themselves in because of being treated inhumanely. at some point all of this has to change. I don't see how people can hide behind the first amendment with their inhuman conduct indefinitely. but getting bent out of shape and allowing your life to become a angry-depressed mess is no answer to the issue. it's no answer to any issue.

[@gforce9132]

+Sourcedrop thanks for the great advice. I will do my best to forgive and move on .

[@matilda4406]

Sourcedrop, I've heard JW talk about not being bitter and forgiving but I think it is wrong to forgive something/someone where there is no remorse. And remember, not forgiving does not make one bitter, especially so if it is out of our hands. Learning to move on and learning to make better choices I think is the issue. JWs like to highlight people being bitter, that's part of their abuse and most people are vulnerable at some point or other in their lives. Being shocked and angry IS the appropriate/normal response to their flagrant abuses. It would not be normal to react like it just needs forgiving without any remorse on their part. Part of moving on is understanding the situation and all the hidden things people are not aware of. Also exposing the lies and hypocrisy is part of the healing. Believe me, it is part of the healing. It needs to be all exposed and You Tube is doing an excellent job. Remember abuse only continues where there are lies and secrets.

[@sisteray3539]

Great interview! Sweet and sincere 😊

[@cindyarnold7322]

I listened to someone yesterday blasting John for not getting sufficiently nasty over a late breaking video. She was spewing out vitriol and I thought "this woman is in a lot of pain. She's venting it on the wrong person. She's jealous he got the video and not her". Sad.

[@matilda4406]

Sourcedrop, I've heard JW talk about not being bitter and forgiving but I think it is wrong to forgive something/someone where there is no remorse. And remember, not forgiving does not make one bitter, especially so if it is out of our hands. Learning to move on and learning to make better choices I think is the issue. JWs like to highlight people being bitter, that's part of their abuse and most people are vulnerable at some point or other in their lives. Being shocked and angry IS the appropriate/normal response to their flagrant abuses. It would not be normal to react like it just needs forgiving without any remorse on their part. Part of moving on is understanding the situation and all the hidden things people are not aware of. Also exposing the lies and hypocrisy is part of the healing. Believe me, it is part of the healing. It needs to be all exposed and You Tube is doing an excellent job. Remember abuse only continues where there are lies and secrets.

[@lovinliverpool]

Hi ex-JW's, I need your opinion on the subject of shunning. I'm writing a paper on how shunning should be an illegal practice violating the Criminal Code in Canada. What are some arguments you guys believe are useful to stress this injustice??

[@craiglange4523]

Great interview, I always wondered why KH's were always being renovated when they didn't need to be. WT was just keeping them at top value and condition to sell off whenever possible. The Borg is such dictatorial hypocrites

[@elenasimon1270]

LOVELY man.

[@mariosoto2588]

god seems to expect so much of us as individuals but not that much from witnesses as an organisation. i find it interesting how jws can defend every accusation saying the governing body are just inperfect humans. Either god is not real or he is just too incompetent whatever the case i see no reason to believe, fear or respect him.

[@swellrobot]

They damn well better have a perfect reason for coming between the wonderful woman that was my mother and her son. Why (the F**k) are "imperfect MEN" in the middle of some of the most intimate relationships of our lives!? Seriously...WHY? ...love you say? 😂 ...control, power, ego, comfort$ etc... Extremely imperfect reasons.

[@slimjim1480]

No July broadcasting?

[@LloydEvans]

We're still in July! :)

[@slimjim1480]

I hear you. I am really looking forward to it. All the best

[@markinette4953]

In all fairness the bible does say to abstain from blood don't touch it they seem to be the only ones preaching door to door and they use God's name what most people would consider recognisable version of it the end probably would have come by now because of these things plus the fact that only the creator knows the day or hour

[@TumbleweedMK4]

these guys are heroes :)

[@lookaway8936]

as much as I would love to watch this video I can not hear the older gentleman.

[@johannestrexx4375]

Look Away - you should be able to move the KZbin volume adjustment on your screen to the right a notch or two and get decent volume. I first watched it while sitting at a table in a busy restaurant and was wearing earphones. At first I had a bit of a problem hearing Mr. Hoyle, but I just kicked the volume over to about 3/4 of the bar and it came in just fine. I'm sure that Cedars can upgrade the volume a bit if he decides to use segments for other videos in the future.

[@lookaway8936]

+Johannes Trexx thank you I appreciate the info.

[@morgangustavsson3047]

Check the microphone next time!

[@veronhs1306]

John Hoyle WOW :-)

[@oscarc5391]

another interesting video .I agree with guest views on some of the ex jw web sites

[@Digidab]

very interesting

[@corrinarottum6547]

Come to see me Lloyd evans, next time in Bend, oregon! Where Jws population is like every 5th person.

[@teatime009]

👀❤👀

[@leicafox4403]

Watchtower Watch! Is this where the idea for JW Watch came from, or unrelated?

[@LloydEvans]

No, unrelated! Although it's interesting to think that there was a similar name for an earlier site - almost a prototype for what was to come! :)