A Couples Therapist On Prenups, Relationship Anxiety, & Radical Financial Honesty

[@aishan218]

I see a lot of people frustrated with the fact that Dr Guranik mentioned multiple times that the advice given really depends on the person’s situation, and that the people involved in the relationship should communicate to find what works for them. I think as a society, although we are now used to generalized advice and binary stances, taking a more nuanced approach should not be a sign of weakness, or a sign of not wanting to be ‘canceled’. It is actually a more realistic answer. Life is rarely as simple as ‘everyone should just do this or that’ (although I agree that makes for juicier answers). Most likely, if you care about the other person, you will have to talk things out, see the other person’s perspective, find what works *for you* as a couple, and move on from there.

[@calibby85]

it's a common thing I see with ppl with analytical non judgemental thought styles- scientists, engineers, etc. not a problem at all

[@m_here1]

Helping people use nuanced approaches for their problems is literally the point of therapy. If there was a magic, general solution for everything, the world would be a very different place. Every person needs a slightly different approach, even if their issues are similar to someone else’s.

[@accidentsafe]

This guest is so thoughtful. There definitely needs to be more conversation on the emotions surrounding money.

[@darrenoconnell9716]

@32:40 when I was in gradschool I needed therapy but it was costprohibitive for me during that period of time. Fortunately, I was living in a city with one of the top psychiatric hospitals in the nation/world and was referred to their student/low income program. That therapist changed my life for the better. About 10-20 years later I was reading a book by a well-known psychiatrist, and to my shock, the intro included a gratitude section where the author thanked MY therapist for the research and assistance on the writing and publication of the book. I had been treated by one of the best therapists in the world and I didn't even know it. #blessed

[@Floreatmajestus]

KZbin has so many resources for anyone seeking counsel; talk therapy is very beneficial too but it’s awesome to have a groundwork laid out for a therapist to then help you unpack. You got this!

[@Fabdanc]

The class background and class loyalty topic is super interesting... self reflecting, 100 percent true.

[@silentraisin]

Love the bit about how a prenup colors the marriage, it’s something that I’ve observed with my friends and family while talking about the issue, many see it as a form of distrust where you’re entering a marriage with a foot out the door and then others see it as a safety net and guarantee of well-being after the relationship ends.

[@Floreatmajestus]

If you married someone, you’re inclined to deal w them unless they hit you or cheat. A pre-nup is always a good idea for both parties even if you’re rock solid

[@thingslaurasays9995]

This interview led me to the show Couples Therapy and for that, I'm very very grateful

[@jampsonn1826]

When she said not to impose your class expectations on your partner, I felt like a huge hand just smacked me bc omg am I guilty of doing that. 😔 the willingness to accept when you're wrong is so important and I am very glad I heard this talk today. Will definitely look into more of Dr. Guralnik's work because she hit the nail on the head!

[@MontSe1001]

Although I agree with Chelsea about not trying to convince people on a topic as big as having children, "not convincing" is Dr. Orna's point. There is a difference between having a conversation with the purpose of mutual understanding, and a debate someone has to "win". Open conversation can lead you back to the same place you were at or, as she says, unexpected results.

[@jontobin5942]

Yes. It’s more about discovering a person’s underlying philosophy and reasoning for their position than trying to challenge that position. The exercise is about understanding not judgement.

[@purplepoppy07]

I love how Dr Guralnik laid everything out in such an analytical and easy to follow (but not over-simplified) way.

[@eileenlaurie2320]

I really enjoyed this, how Dr Guralnik reminds us we need to dig deeper, why do we act the way we do? Why do we have just that argument with our partner? And I do appreciate her comment about ambivalence. Even if you really want to have children, there will be some ambivalence if you allow yourself to feel it. Also, even if you don't have children, and know that this was the right decision for you, there will be moments when you wonder "what if?". And those moments don't negate the decision you made to not have children. In our fast-paced world, we often want quick answers, but there is no "one-size-fits-all", we need to be adults and do the - at time painful - work of learning about who we are and why we react the way we do. Also I loved Dr Guralnik's emphasis on how class colours our decisions, even if we don't realise it. Coming from a place of financial security and coming from a place where money was always short and things were always tense are two very different origins. Worth reflecting on.

[@handleisunknown]

Thanks for featuring Dr. Orna! I've got such a huge amount of respect for her after watching Couples Therapy.

[@thefaboo]

20:20 Oh man, this dynamic was a big struggle in my marriage for many years. A lot of discussion and empathy went into getting to where we are now, where everyone is generally satisfied with how and when we spend money - but also with how we talk about it with each other.

[@cleansoapmind]

Not sure why Chelsea seemed a bit rude to the doctor.. who was giving very nuanced and thoughtful answers.

[@knife199]

yeah, felt that!

[@blueberrybubbles17]

A lot of comments mention the lack of answers but this episode really differed from others because it was more of an interview than a back and forth conversation. They seemed to have two different personalities that didn’t result in having a flowing convo. I guess that’s just how some go! I really enjoy the ones where they get into deeper conversations about a particular subject.

[@Andtherewaslight427]

I will always come back to this interview. It changed my perspective on so many things.

[@Andtherewaslight427]

Here I am again.

[@Driveontheroad]

I think Dr. Orna is fantastic but I do agree with Chelsea that when it comes to having kids, it really isn't a nuanced thing for a lot of people. It is SUCH a life-altering, irreversible decision that I don't think we should be trying to convince anybody to change their stance on it. As a childfree person myself, I genuinely don't feel any ambivalence on the matter and that's why I lay my cards on the table STRAIGHT away in relationships so I know we're both on the same page. It's too heavy an issue to be trying to make compromises/negotiations.

[@sternchen6596]

I dont think you even can make a compromise on having/ not having children. You either have them or you dont, there is nothing in between.

[@305nt]

Yeah, I was curious about that too. Maybe the ambivalence take comes from clinical observations? I would imagine most couples who come to therapy for +/- children conversation were not solid/consistent on their stance in the beginning of the relationship? So in a lot of ways she wouldn't observe straightforward people because they know what they want, share it early on, and don't create relationships that don't agree with those values/plans.

[@zuric7035]

I agree! I thought she articulated everything very well. I think she was talking about a more serious relationship where they have more to lose vs laying everything out in the beginning and just not start the relationship. I have multiple friends who were vague about children and then once married and a couple years into the relationship chose a hard stance of no.

[@michellelui8001]

I agree that having a kid when one person doesn't want one is a TERRIBLE idea (I don't want kids myself), but the way I interpreted what Dr. Orna is saying is that there are other ways to be involved with kids without having your own. One person may not want kids, but maybe is open to babysitting a niece/nephew/neighbor, so the other person can still scratch their "kids" itch. Then the person who doesn't want kids can have that experience too and see if they really are against kids and this is as far as it will go (or maybe even step back in the future and just have one person interact with the kids if it's too much), or if they are open to the idea of kids. I think that the kid lover having this experience is good too, since they might realize how much work it really is and maybe they aren't on board with it after all.

[@doomedwit1010]

It is worth noting the self selecting nature. If kids come up in these sessions it is by definition because (1) there's not a clear understanding or agreement on children and (2) the parties *still* want to make the relationship work. Starting with that premise, You have to have a conversation to both explore options and ideas (what of both are okay with adoption, but anti overpopulation person just assumed pro child needed a bio kid, and pro kid didn't realize anti bio kid greenie likes children, but does not want to be responsible for bringing another person into world). Or the issue is timing, or career. Or it's an intersection of kids and stay at home parenting. You need to check in. This is shocking but many many adults are really bad at those conversations. That is how they got this far without that discussion . Second in this scenario You HAVE to have the conversation so 10 years later you are not bitter about the decision. IF you posit BOTH parties still want to make the relationship work, you have to explore it. Because they need to accept the mutual decision not just acquiesce to it. They need to buy into the relationship. Not secretly expect the other to change then hate each other in 10 years.

[@meganlsanders]

I’ve always found the conversation around income splits really interesting and how that relates to labour division and bill splitting etc. I find every couple does it differently because it seems to be completely related to morals and ethics which of course differ person to person. It’s rare to find a couple where both parties have identical incomes so I love hearing how people decide to handle the difference.

[@adira-o6n]

I felt like her answer on kids was really well thought out and nicely put, and she’s right this is a heavy topic and majority of people will have some sort of ambivalence inside of them surrounding the topic.

[@ellax325]

Idk if this is an option Chelsea but you might want to consider banning the use of the word "crypto" or "cryptocurrency" on videos where it's no related because the bots are in full swing.

[@vulpixelful]

I like where she pointed out that it's important to be generous and understanding of a partner and how their views are formed from their class expectations. It would probably be pretty distressing to have class expectations imposed without your say. I think Megan Merkle experienced that, for example. Also, dedicated lot of people in specialized fields aren't quite sure how to promote themselves 😅 shout out that research at least

[@notdeadskeleton7871]

a reminder that any comment asking you to contact an 'investor' over WhatsApp and telegram are scams. Investment advice should not be taken from youtube comments and no proper investment advisor or broker would not work this way. Moreover, these comments are often bots, replying to each other comments within seconds. Be smart

[@deenil]

I genuinely enjoyed reading the bot conversation lol. Marveling at modern tech

[@calibby85]

I report them as much as I can and tag them/call them out

[@elenaadler4633]

A very thoughtful guess. She seemed distant at first, but once she started talking about her job she lit up!

[@Floreatmajestus]

Having kids is the best decision I’ve made; I’m in my thirties now which is what my mother suggested & im glad I listened.

[@emmablue7669]

Couples Therapy was SO GOOD. I’m very excited for this

[@MiniNymph]

The class background thing got me thinking - we didn't have much money growing up, but it was deffo a middle class background. Money was connected to guilt, even as a little child I would save my pennies. I struggle to imagine a time of spending in my future, I feel like I'm doomed to eternal saving, like I will never be worth the money I've put aside. The things I want are "tat" as my parents would say, the experiences I want are overpriced and "touristy" and my life goal of owning a house looks impossible.

[@ms.z461]

Love Dr. Orna's show Couples Therapy. Great interview as always team TFD.

[@flatwhite27]

Hi Chelsea and team :) Would you all ever consider making videos about how neurodivergent people handle money? :) thank you!

[@devlinfae]

This is a really important topic, and it was well analyzed from a psychological perspective.

[@russellstephen6998]

Interesting interview! Chelsea seemed kinda disengaged towards the end.. I’m not sure if she didn’t like the answers she was getting or was picking up on a bad vibe. Still a worthy watch, though

[@SpottedTiger89]

Glad I wasn't the only one picking up on this!

[@fairytori]

I think that maybe when the doctor gave the answer about having kids, it may have been uncomfortable for Chelsea. I understand and appreciate both of their perspectives. Also, there was no rapid fire questions /:

[@russellstephen6998]

@@fairytori yeah that makes sense! I understand it can be a difficult topic for lots of people. All my love to her I adore this channel

[@medinar5]

I love this! I’ve recently gotten into finances more, especially through this channel, and I love the Couples Therapy show and I LOVE Orna! I myself am a couples therapist and this is just ✨iconic✨

[@martavillanueva1062]

36:41 I agree 👍. I mean we don't talk like that when someone says they are gay. We don't get hell bent to change their mind, so same for kids, grant it,. it's about respecting a person's personal choice. We don't force vegans not to be vegans.

[@darrenoconnell9716]

Exactly. Don't force carnivores to not be carnivores.

[@aliciahicks3558]

Please interview Dr. Ramani for TFC! I would love to hear her take on the effects of narcissism when it comes to abuse. Not only the narcissist but also those effected by the abuse.

[@andaminiart4288]

There's episode with Dr. Ramani already, it's awesome. It was made in last two months I think?

[@aliciahicks3558]

@@andaminiart4288 I'm looking it up now . Thank you!!

[@MeenalChaturvedi]

Hi, please leave timestamps, thanks!

[@haleyperdue4483]

It seems that Dr Guralnik didn't give Chelsea the answer she wanted to hear about partners wanting to have kids.

[@voicedbird]

I appreciated the doctor's delicate approach to that topic. While Chelsea's clearly looking at it from a childfree by choice bias, it can be just as problematic to convince someone who does want kids to not have any. Dr Guralnik made good points about exploring why each partner feels the way they do and seek mutual understanding instead.

[@emilycurtis4398]

Is it just me or was the audio really low in the beginning? Chelsea- can you add captioning for your videos?

[@darrenoconnell9716]

Hit the cc at the top right hand and you'll get captions

[@emilycurtis4398]

@@darrenoconnell9716 shoot, really? I was trying that and it wasn't working.

[@Discrete1998]

@@emilycurtis4398 it worked for me! Maybe your app needs upgraded?

[@susanflowers6696]

Hi Chelsea first off I just want to thank you for bringing us such h valuable information. Secondly I know these videos tale along a time. research and effort. My question is how to be able to participate in your conversations in the real world. Hope to hear back.

[@adagreve9836]

I had the knives in the dishwasher argument with my husband... not sure if we'll ever be able to resolve this...

[@tammystockley-loughlin7680]

Points down...or lay then in the top rack if they're too long, it's a safety thing, less likely to get cut. Just my take. Positive vibes from New Hampshire, remember to be kind to each other and yourself during these trying times

[@zebedeesummers4413]

Id imagine whomever is going to take them out...

[@asadb1990]

my knive have hilts too big to go into the spoon tray so by default i usually leave them in the top drawer flat

[@paolokoch1123]

There's no shortcut to getting rich, but there are smart ways to go about it. I’ve been seeking financial advices for a few years and I’ve acquired over 3M dollars. Start early to create other sources of income so you don't suffer in retirement or old age

[@kaydeneli3661]

I’ve interest and want to try out something. Could you possibly share more ideas on sectors you engage in?

[@paolokoch1123]

@@kaydeneli3661 I engage in different kinds of prolific Investments- launchpad IDOs, NFTees, and multifamily real estates through proper planning and management of a widely known financial consultant, and so far the experience has been the best for my finances

[@paolokoch1123]

Just make quick internet research with his name Donald Nathan Scott where you can easily get in touch and write him.

[@winifredmorris8507]

Insightful comment! I am certain the market will recover as we’ve experienced far worst time and despite hard fall, the crypto market rises tremendously than we’d expected. This isn’t the time to panic or sell due to its fall, but keep investing, buying and keeping. It’s really a waste to sell now and losing so much when you can make much in future when the market recovers. I had better understanding of this system working with Donald Nathan Scott.

[@reneetmp]

This was super interesting! Thank you

[@luckyone4881]

Another great episode, thanks Chelsea

[@julie-wb8cf]

❤Orna

[@millyroberts1523]

My spouse spoke out today saying that because I argued to be in a variable mortgage then we will stick with it no matter the cost. I felt very blamed for pushing to make that decision 4/5 months ago. How was I to know there was going to be a war and a recession. I’m not sure what to say now.

[@knife199]

Uncomfortable to watch! The host is so unfriendly towards Dr.Orna.

[@deniserichard5613]

I noticed that too. She obviously doesn't agree with this kind of therapy.

[@theharplayer2036]

Chelsea, I think you had significant, targeted, and concise questions! I commend you for bringing in an expert. Unfortunately, I feel like this Dr. was so worried about how her words would age or getting sued that we didn't get clear and concise answers. I was getting frustrated as a listener because all her answers were the same, in my opinion. I would love to hear more about the impacts of class and our relationships with money and how it impacts our relationship, but that was the only solid point/advice she gave us. Thank you for trying. Love you H

[@TreetopCanopy]

In my experience, most scientists at the top of their game keep things pretty hedged

[@wh8416]

I think she was trying to be objective and nuanced and not make dramatic binary statements since as she said "there isn't a single answerer for everyone's situation."

[@sarcasm176]

Omg yes love her show couples therapy. Learned so much

[@hayley4514]

Loyalty to class background.... thats so interesting

[@MsEriKaT]

The knives in the dishwasher should be down. I recently saw saw someone put them up and WOW

[@InnerGiggles]

I just don’t put knives in the dishwasher. I find they get dull after. Some the handles get ruined. Wonder what it means when my answer is outside of the 2 options.

[@hayley4514]

Clicked SO fast

[@smyrie0805]

I love Dr. Orna, she always has so much good information to share. This host/interviewer though....not good.

[@Capitanvolume]

I can't even get a girlfriend, but I'm well off and own my home. I'm so afraid of losing what I've worked so hard to have. I have been so socially isolated for the last 10 years that now at 27, its too hard for me.

[@elly7199]

I think watching (and perhaps living through) a few nightmare relationships and the devastation that can follow them (absolutely including financially) makes some of us so cautious over time. There are so so many immoral piranhas out there that it seems a wiser course to isolate. I’m there right now. All I can say to that issue is it’s not healthy to be isolated but I don’t feel the desire to change it yet. Best wishes to you!

[@tammystockley-loughlin7680]

Baby steps...eye contact, smile, say hello to a neighbor or another person you see regularly. If you like your coworkers, have a potluck and ask them to bring someone. Put yourself out there, be a good person and it will happen. Positive vibes from New Hampshire, remember to be kind to each other and yourself during these trying times

[@Capitanvolume]

@@elly7199 the longer I go, the less it bothers me. My friends always say that I don't know what I'm missing, and they're right. If I don't know what its like, it's not as bad I think.

[@asadb1990]

being careful is key. when you go and approach girl, be yourself but in a way that is considered attractive that doesn't involve money. and when in a relationship pretend you are barely getting by and insure your partner pays their share. maybe let them know about your wealth after you get married or if consider enough time has passed and you got to know her you can be mire transparent. or just keep the bulk of your money a secret and only reveal it in a real emergency. and by that i mean if you both lost your job and unemployment/savings are running out. otherwise forget about it. pretend you don't have the money.

[@Capitanvolume]

@@asadb1990 can't really hide wealth when you have a nice house, a collection of sports cars and nice stuff. I hate cheap shitty stuff. I don't buy a lot of things but I only get the best.

[@cmntr_]

Why were there no rapid fire questions this time?

[@lilsilly1994]

??

[@bonnie6866]

chelsea! tell us in detail about your say no to sugar battle! the struggle is real man. I feel like i need a sponsor.

[@sergioreal7810]

LOVE TFD!

[@tsca100]

I guess a judgmental host attracts a judgmental audience. I see many people who don't understand nuance in the comments, just like Chelsea herself.

[@bencohen7400]

Love reading these during my lunch breaks!! Thanks Chelsea

[@doomedwit1010]

I'm the dork who thinks a prenup is a fun first date topic. I might be weird. Whether you're 22 or 62. It's a good conversation about a lot of things. Of course my expertise isn't successful marriages. It's ending of marriages. Inability to communicate about serious issues is a common thread on pretty much any case that costs more than $1000.

[@MsCristina38]

How many clients with a prenup in place want to get divorced? I remember an acquaintance was taken aback when her fiancé wanted her to sign a prenup. I asked her: He wants to get divorced in the future and protect his assets? She was like no, no. But they did get divorced. So already when they were getting married he was already thinking about divorce hence the prenup. Here where I live prenups are usually thrown out of court due to kids or income inequity.

[@doomedwit1010]

@@MsCristina38 no more than most. Hard to say. I have done more prenups than I have done divorces with prenups. But I do not serve predominantly wealthy clientele, rarely more than a few million in assets down to less than six figures (note that 6 figures is easy to hit counting the house, cars, and all retirement accounts, a 50 year old with a half paid off $150k house, paid off 10 year old comoact car, and $20k 401k hits it). Also there is going to be some bias because prenup divorces tend to be easy and quick so easily forgotten. I see mostly two types. The older people who want to protect their own kids (fun fact, if you are in a car accident and your spouse outlives you by enough hours, their family could get everything and yours nothing with no will, and more than half without the right ones - which are part of a prenup). Most of the young ones have a family business, often that their father or grandfather built. Much as you might love your spouse, your siblings may not enjoy them, especially if your ex husband is now a 1/8 owner who can sue all of you now at the drop of a hat. A good prenup there is mostly a buy-sell. A business needs a buy sell if it is going to survive a bad breakup. If you have a business worth $500,000. You could spend $200,000 fighting over it in the divorce. Then you need to somehow come up with $250,000 to buy out your ex? Better to burn the business down and walk away. Divorcing couples fight to force the other one to take it. Saw an appeals case like that with 7 figure attorneys fees. I have also some advised a number of women and men who did not get one. This is the law. This is how it works. They often don't ultimately do a prenup... but they have always seemed happy they paid me to walk through one. Child support and child custody/parenting issues are not governed by prenups. But a prenup can provide for an increased property settlement if there are kids, so the kids aren't choosing between dad's villa and mom's 2 bedroom apartment. Say you marry a celebrity. And divorce 5 years later. You aren't getting spousal maintenance for more long, if at all. You might get $1250 a month in child support. Now with a prenup maybe you agree that if you have kids and are a stay at home mom, you'll get $100,000 a year until the child is 18. So you can quit your $60k a year job to move to LA and support their career Knowing if they leave you for Tom Hanks, you won't be homeless. Spousal maintenance gets harder to win every year. You get married at 20. It turns out he's a loser with no ambition and you divorce at 40. Would you want to pay him 30% of your disposable income for the rest of your life? Yes judges will consider being a stay at home mom. Would you rather (a) negotiate so you will be provided for if you quit your job and reach an agreement you think is fair or (b) spend $100,000 of your own money going to trial when your attorney tells you there is a CHANCE you get nothing? You have no work history and your offered a small amount. Can you afford not to take it? A bad prenup can hurt the spouse (usually the woman) but a good prenup can protect her. Because it forces a conversation about what a stay at home parent really sacrifices. You can also have a real bad day at court. You get one chance for one random person to take a best guess at what they think is fair and decide who is telling the truth. Judges are people and honestly not as good at discerning the truth as they think. Also sociopaths tend to fool everyone. They have no tells. And judges have massive discretion In divorces. Also by taking money OUT of the divorce as an issue? It can be easier to talk about the kids - especially if maintenance means the mother doesn't Need child support as back handed spousal maintenance to survive. 75% of my job is trying to reduce conflict and establish clear rules so these people can coparent. A win for me isn't crushing it in court, it's my client being able to move forward with their life and maximize their happiness in the future. People change. You cannot tell at 25 what you will both be like at 35 or 45. You just can't. Plus as she says, you are agreeing to a prenup. You are choosing to let the government decide what is fair if you don't sign one. I can't tell you how many times I have had to tell a client "no one cares if he cheated on you and spent his retirement account stupidly. You were married to him, you knew how he spent it. You didn't divorce him. Now he gets half of what remains - which all happens to be "your" retirement account. If you can't have an honest discussion and understanding about how much of a sacrifice it is to put your career aside for your spouse's, the marriage will never be equal. And yes women are just as angry about the risk of having to pay spousal maintenance as men. But back to the original point. You can tell a lot about the odds of a marriage lasting or at least ending safely by if two people can actually talk honestly about money before their wedding. It does not get easier.

[@MsCristina38]

@@doomedwit1010 Thank you for that very thorough reply. Very informative and super useful! You’re the best!

[@sergioreal7810]

They don’t usually upload on Mondays?

[@krystalvalentine5691]

omg iconic. i can't! i haven't even watched yet but this will probably be my favourite episode

[@99leadpencils]

Hitting it out of the park again with these amazing interview guests!

[@bonnie6866]

Love! great topic, nailed it as always

[@shelbymary212]

I am so here for this!!

[@juliocesarfernandez1887]

😍😍😍😍😍

[@saschamayer4050]

2:53 start

[@saschamayer4050]

44:27

[@saschamayer4050]

23:48 postad

[@Dalio906]

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[@ava3755]

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[@pau640]

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[@maxjoseph4764]

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[@maxjoseph4764]

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[@pau640]

I’m a long term investor I just withdrew my profit over £140,000 her trading strategies is second to none.

[@mrslvw]

That was... interesting lol:/ IDK this guest so not sure what situation was but let's see to say something positive, um it really speaks well to Chelsea's interview skills that this conversation even occur bc she wasn't getting back much...

[@alenaababon3303]

Some parts of this were interesting but she came off as far less approachable than the divorce lawyer you had before.

[@muffemod]

Get a prenup.

[@xHaComio]

Not a fan of this lady, how she addresses questions at hand, and her sleepy/disengaged tone