What Happened To The Male Breadwinner?

[@PatKellyTeaches]

What got me interested in TFD back in 2018 was its contrast to the FIRE/crypto bros that dominated personal finance content. That brand of masculinity never resonated with me. Meanwhile, Chelsea offered a reasoned, slowed-down take on finance that took people's emotional relationship with money into account. I'm grateful to have had yall in my media diet to counteract the more broey financial content.

[@thefinancialdiet]

Thank you! Grateful to have you -C

[@jmlkinc]

The Financial Diet and The Plain Bagel are the two chill level headed finance channels I go to in contrast to the crazy crypto finance bro culture.

[@SeaJay4444]

I also recommend Ben Felix for level headed and sensible financial content. Ben is more focused on the nitty gritty details of investing and economics while TFD is more about human nature, psychology, culture, societal systems etc. They complement each other really well I think.

[@Lysistrata2025]

Note that the FIRE lifestyle is a highway to lack of connection. Working too many hours to be highly paid, having no hobbies to meet people at, cutting all restaurant expenses so there is no decent place to meet up with new people and leaving the workforce at 40 to sit on the sofa by yourself.

[@transsexual_computer_faery]

it helps being a leftist

[@mortviolette284]

Woman as strictly homemaker wasn’t even a thing for more than a few blips in human history across cultures. Women have worked to provide for their families in most stages and at all but the highest levels of society. Even when we’re all living in small bands, women contributed to group survival at the same level as men. Heck, we even have evidence from certain sites that more calories were provided by women’s efforts than men’s.

[@Chikitew]

Yep. The difference now is that women can be compensated for our labor. Prior to the integration of women in the workforce, specifically in jobs that were male-dominated, and prior to women being able to have our own checking and savings accounts, it wasn't unusual that a woman's paycheck was more her husband's than it was hers. So many people don't understand this isn't just a right for women to work outside the home issue, it's the fact that until about 50-60 years ago, women were not considered to be their own independent persons, prior to or after marriage. Women "belonged" to their fathers until they got married.

[@Tormekia]

Same with thinking the "nuclear family" is normal. Like no. Families were multi generational. That was normal. Expecting one person to supply all the resources and one person to provide all the childcare is sick.

[@lavendarcrash2941]

Yep. Pre-Industrial Revolution the women may have been home more, but they were still working! Many worked in their husband's business. Others had a home-based business of their own such as taking in washing & mending or selling homemade products such as cheese & beer. But this work doesn't get recognized by modern culture.

[@nobodythenobody9779]

Men went broke due in part to misandrist workplace discrimination, same thing in uni and schools

[@jaclynrachellec]

Yes. At every time in history, poor women always worked.

[@klamance]

To be fair, Dave Ramsey would tell a 4 year old to get up and work if they were in debt😂

[@sonicpsycho13]

I've heard Dave tell people to give up a guaranteed, immediate 100% ROI in favor of paying down a 2% interest loan.

[@Trix897]

@@sonicpsycho13even his debt payment strategy is lacking compared to the debt avalanche.

[@leluseven]

87th Rule of Acquisition "Exploitation begins at home!"

[@PaulinaAguirre-ys3ku]

😂

[@matthewcooper3218]

enjoy your cats

[@ItsTheCatSpeaking24]

Men went broke because we all did! The economy has impacted us all, so much so that single (I.e., traditionally male) breadwinner families are unsustainable and very rare. Women are just getting on with the grind, but men feel like their role has been lost. When in actual fact, we've all lost

[@lunar686]

Well we haven’t all lost….turns out the top 0.1% has like quadrupled their quadrillions….lol 😅

[@INAVACL]

Yep but women have more emotion maturity

[@matthewcaldwell8100]

@@INAVACLNot really

[@General8675]

Women have been doing better as a group as young professionals. We are nearing a 2:1 college graduation rate for women and in many professions, women are earning the same/more than men as long as they don’t have children (a penalty that is hard to avoid in highly competitive professions) and the cost of childcare leads to the less earning spouse staying home. We should make childcare fully tax deductible and mandate parental leave (yes, make it mandatory!) to prioritize child welfare and equalize the workplace, but we haven’t.

[@lilsabin]

I am a man and I don't feel like anything you said and I am far from being broke

[@danielromerosol4158]

Yes yes. Finally someone say it. All this is a Psy-opp to simp for Billionaires. We end up with broken men simping for billionaires

[@matthewcooper3218]

This world has owners. Classifying men's drive for self-improvement as something negative won't change it.

[@Mr_Boifriend]

@@matthewcooper3218😂😂😂

[@karenandrews4224]

@@danielromerosol4158 and the grossest billionaires like Thiel and Musk.

[@matthewcooper3218]

@@karenandrews4224 You don't know what you are talking about. No one simps for Theil or Musk karen.

[@matthewcooper3218]

@@karenandrews4224 who simps for them?

[@DavidParker-sb9hp]

Looking back on my 20s, I was all about chasing success, like many young men today who idolize billionaires and get caught up in flashy lifestyles. It’s easy to be influenced when you’re young and eager to make it big. But now, being retired, I realize how important it is to plan for long-term financial security instead of chasing quick fixes or falling for empty promises, like the ones sold by influencers. Building a solid foundation early is key, especially as priorities shift from success to stability. If I could go back, I’d focus on smarter financial planning rather than looking for shortcuts

[@Joe900-px3nt]

I’m nearing retirement myself, and I had similar concerns. I started investing later than most, and just relying on ETF compounding wasn’t cutting it for me either. After working with a financial advisor, I managed to restructure my investments and am now on track to retire with around $4 million. If I hadn’t sought advice, I doubt I’d be as confident in my plan right now

[@DavidParker-sb9hp]

I’m trying to figure out the best approach for my portfolio. How did you find your advisor? I feel like I need that kind of guidance

[@Joe900-px3nt]

I usually steer clear of recommending specific people because financial needs are so personal. But I can say that working with Emily Ava Milligan has made a world of difference for me. I noticed her strategies are tailored to fit personal goals and make sense for different needs. It might be worth exploring to see if her approach resonates with you

[@DavidParker-sb9hp]

Thanks for that. I did a quick search and found her page. I was able to email so I sent over a few questions to get more info. Appreciate you sharing

[@WishingThePanda]

I just recently ended a relationship with a guy who falls so easily into this rhetoric. He couldn't show an emotion if you held a gun to his head. He has severe PTSD and definitely shows signs of depression but doesn't believe it's real. He thinking if he works hard he can become rich through business bro schemes despite the fact that he is undocumented, has no real connections, and gave up all of his money for a failed business. I really hope that one day he learns to process his emotions and stop pushing away the people that care about him but GIRL... couldn't be me.

[@unicorn73212]

Yeah they think they lost because they can't control women anymore like you control children. We are too advanced for that now but they should have thought about that before they all started disowning there kids and abusing their wives they know why a lot of us dumped and divorced them because they wouldn't get any kind of therapy they thought red pill content would save them now at least half of them are bankrupt because of listening to fresh n fit. Those guys are from rich families were there daddies spoiled them that were the golden child because for them jail time equals house arrest but for a woman jail time equals real prison time. That's another reason women don't want to live with them anymore they can get us in trouble for the dumbest things just by playing the victim.

[@bensanderson7144]

Why would you want a relationship with an illegal alien?

[@Empathy-and-resilience]

💯💯💯 very relatable. Sounds like my ex husband 🤦🏻‍♀️

[@QTpielovestolearn]

My husband has also unfortunately started to fall down the Joe Rogan/Huberman/Goggins trap. He was kind of into it before but ever since he got laid off about a year ago he’s dived in head first. It’s been very hard on me but this video did help me realize that perhaps this is his way of asserting his masculinity. I’m debating whether or not to show him this video. Hoping not all is lost.

[@bensanderson7144]

@@WishingThePanda why would you have a relationship with an illegal alien?

[@jessicaharlan8996]

So we should say "Musk is listed as a founder of Tesla" bc he didn't found it, but he negotiated his name to be listed as a founder when he bought into the existing company.

[@midniteryder_3-16]

Yep & used his manipulation 2 oust the 2 REAL founders out. Tesla would b more legit if those 2 founders remained in power & muskrat pissed off!

[@JustaRealKid]

⁠@@midniteryder_3-16they didn’t even have an actual product 😂Tesla was no more than a little Science experiment before Musk came along

[@bryaninmiami]

First generation American. Man of color. Been following this page for a bit now. Thank you for your content.

[@thefinancialdiet]

Thank you for being here! -C

[@chelseashurmantine8153]

Lol "montage of men selling courses to other men. It's giving 'hey girl' or whatever they say when they start a DM"

[@bi_yall]

Hey hun! lol

[@Sababbby]

MLM scheme, you're so right

[@nobodythenobody9779]

Men went broke due in part to misandrist workplace discrimination, same thing in uni and schools

[@Mr_Boifriend]

hey girl

[@ffwast]

@@Sababbby "men loving men scheme"? 🤨

[@MiaMizuno]

Glad I have a workaholic dad, who even worked 3 years longer after his official retirement. Was 35 years in the same company. He invented stuff, and while his boss owns houses and Porsches, my dad got a huge food basket for his last day of work as a Senior semiconductor Engineer and Project Lead. His boss even did not give a last raise 1 year before retirement to make him raise the public monthly retirement rate. Taught me as a kid an adult how to treat life and corporate cringe

[@MiaMizuno]

From all these extra hours he spent he could have bought a house, I am not kidding. But on a social Aspect, my dad was an introvert and negotiation was a no-go for him. My mom even Managed to get him a raise through the phone, once, 20 years ago, when she in highest Anger called the Boss, she was so fed up 😂

[@iequalasian]

the man should have left and found a better job. at the end of the day, you need to look after yourself and his best interest and not be terrified of change. That is on him.

[@ecclairmayo4153]

Im a woman and I learned you do your job and go home. Dont do more or volunteer for more thinking it will get you somewhere. You can do it if you want, but not because you think you will get a raise or promotion. They will let you go just the same as a bad employee. This just happened to one of our star employees this week.

[@theinvisiblewoman5709]

@@iequalasianin his Father’s Day they believed in workplace loyalty and job hoping was heavily looked down upon. It’s different now since millennials and gen z give back the same energy we are given.

[@theinvisiblewoman5709]

@@ecclairmayo4153I’m also a woman in the workplace. I do more for more money. Not for free. People who do free work are asking to be exploited and burn out. If I’m not being offered more hours or overtime don’t even look my way.

[@lorrilewis2178]

The guys who listen to toxic male influencers say they don't ask women what they want or even listen to women because "you don't ask the fish how to catch it." 🙄

[@thefinancialdiet]

lmao WHAT

[@HashFace253]

"A key that unlocks a man a fish teaches many locks but a fish that aims for the highest dragon" -Joranfit tatefreshersonchuck

[@lorrilewis2178]

@@thefinancialdiet For real. I used to waste my time responding to those videos. I'd say the male influencer was giving terrible advice to men regarding women and how we think. I'd ask why they were listening to a man talking about what women want. The men would reply that women only THINK they know what they want, but they are fooling themselves or lying. And nearly every time, I'd get "you don't ask a fish how to catch it".

[@sarahrose5595]

Okay but wouldn't that also mean that all women are desperately trying to avoid them because no fish ever wants to be caught

[@StefanTaf]

so we run away from 'predators' trying to catch us 🥰

[@daviddobarganes9115]

"I view others as lesser and I hide behind a wall of thorns, I dont know why Im so lonely" Side note: every conservative ideology consists of changing yourself rather than changing the system. Just endure suffering more!

[@manifest2203]

Exactly. One more thing I have found is, m4n bond with one another mainly about women- that he did this to her, that to her, and other ways of speaking poorly about all the women in their lives. Even recently there was an Korean issue of the Nth room controversy where guys even deep faked their moms and sisters. This type of bonding is shallow and will not last. And these types of men won’t ever get female companionship for the long hauls because of the way they act. And the cycle continues.

[@maggie6152]

@@manifest2203 I've been trying to help men for most of my life and overwhelmingly the only time they are supportive to other men is when they are hating on women. I keep telling them they need to support and be kinder to OTHER MEN and I just get the wall of "that's not how male relationships work" or ""you're just trying to make us into women", It is so, so frustrating because a major answer to the male loneliness epidemic is for men to be more supportive to other men WITHOUT needing to hate and degrade another group. It's so frustrating and I feel helpless to stop this nightmare as a woman. Don't even get me started about trying to get them to see a bloody therapist to deal with all the unhealed parental trauma that has led to this crap. As a woman, I WANT to help men, but because I'm a woman, my advice is automatically lesser and discarded even though I've been through a large amount of things men go through (suppressing emotions, having no emotional support with friends, extreme isolation, having society hate me [I'm disabled]). I've grown up with men, my friends through my entire life have been 85% men and I've personally observed the problematic behaviors and how they develop through every stage of life. But it doesn't matter outside of a small amount of men I've met and am still friends with because I'm a woman. They want women to fix the problem, but don't respect women enough to learn from them.

[@RenigadeWarrior1]

Who do you think taught those men to do that?

[@Here4TheHeckOfIt]

​@@manifest2203 South Korea is already going through a population decline. Certainly the issue of digital abuse towards women will speed it up.

[@manifest2203]

@@Here4TheHeckOfIt yes SKorea has the worlds lowest birth rate. I am a little bit interested in demography and I did some aelf study on it. And yes, these types of issues will surely exacerbate the issue. Imagine britthing and raising a s8on who acts like this. That would be the biggest tragedy a woman can go through.

[@Chikitew]

I think one main thing really should be addressed here, it’s not that men are upset that women are “promiscuous”, and *that* being their sole reason for being upset about the current state of affairs, but many genuinely believe that women in the workforce not only “stole” careers that were rightfully theirs, but that women performing this labor and being *adequately compensated* (big factor here) for it caused the devaluation of wages. Of course this isn’t true due to the host of other factors (dissolving of unions, decline of marginal tax rates for the upper class etc) mentioned in the video, but none of that matters to them. If women can’t be forced out of jobs after getting married or being pregnant anymore, men view it as something that is “theirs” being stolen.

[@manifest2203]

I have heard this talking point too. They are so confused and in denial on multiple levels.

[@maggie6152]

As a woman who has been in a male dominated industries and spaces, THIS is one of the most terrifying aspects.

[@logicandwisdom]

I'm also a woman who worked in a make dominated field and at one company had to deal with coworkers explicitly asking if I could afford x,y and z on my salary when we had the exact same position. They just assumed and relished in the fact that they made more. The thing was they didn't. My company actually got sued and had a big 3 firm act as a 3rd party to determine that female employees were being paid less and our salaries were normalized. I got 2 years of salary differential and got a report for 5 years on how my salary compared to those of my male coworkers who had the same role. The guys who bloated over my so called lower salary heard about the lawsuit and just assumed women continued to make less.

[@Nino-xp5df]

Exactly. And why do they feel that woman working the same job as them devalues wages? Because for them, it's a given that woman earn less and women's jobs are less desirable. It's so f*d up.

[@thiccactus]

I think you need to study some economics before saying things. If the workforce doubles, the value of labor gets cut in half. Add in immigrations and offshoring, and the value of males labor just doesn't exist anymore. Yet they're still held to the same standard they were used to.

[@chrisd7133]

Gotta be real, as a guy in this economy the worst part really is the culture within cis-male spaces. Like, the table stakes is that the economy sucks for literally everyone. But then, on top of that, so much of the media and marketing around being a guy is a twofold "Be a little asshole" and "Get paid or get out". Glad TFD is focusing on the influencers in that space, because that's really the unique aspect of this experience. Great take on where the gaps are in the male experience.

[@nobodythenobody9779]

@@chrisd7133 as a man I have no idea what you are talking about but the fact you use "cis male" means you are too far gone brother, rip 🤣

[@Jay-ho9io]

Yep. Casting the insecurities of the most insecure as actually the goals of the majority is a really effective verbal judo move to keep the narrative focused on conservative ideals.

[@keddycameron2723]

Thanks for your perspective. It was good to hear it.

[@dm96177]

My husband and I both work over full time in stressful careers. He is a high earner and the smartest person I know. I make quite a bit more than him and have since we have been together. We are a partnership, we don’t care who makes more etc. it’s OUR money and we both approach our finances in the same responsible fashion.

[@carolineauch]

This is the exact same for me and my husband. We encourage each other to be better and to hustle (to a healthy degree of course). Alas most guys are brainwashed by an early age to always need to be providing and to feed that 'masculine' ego. It takes a lot of self reflection to part ways with that

[@cjmhall]

⁠@@carolineauch I think Chris Rock hit the nail on the head when he said “men are only loved on the condition that they provide something”. Society has always expected men to be providers and there is very little acceptance of men who aren’t working to support others. I doubt many women would find a man attractive who they had to provide for while he followed his passion projects, but the reverse is not the case.

[@dm96177]

@@carolineauchexactly!

[@dm96177]

@@cjmhallI would LOVE if my husband didn’t work full time. He would still be working taking care of the home, chores, etc. it would take so much off my plate and make our lives much more relaxed.

[@manifest2203]

How do you split chores?

[@Pyridius]

Male viewer ready to support Chelsea and TFD while also enjoying this banger

[@thefinancialdiet]

Thanks king!

[@metastract]

👊 smart.

[@chrisd7133]

+1

[@sha2596]

So appreciated! I sincerely hope you believe that you are respected as a human, and it’s just as important that you find your personal value, which doesn’t solely come from the fact that you are a man, but does include your masculinity!

[@chumbageni1537]

Bro! I immediately thought Chelsea FC and TFD what a man's man! Then I was like oh! But yes this is a certified banger. But also C'mon United!

[@j.r.4627]

y'all need hazard pay for your manosphere research

[@nobodythenobody9779]

Do y'all hate the manoshphere because it's the only place men aren't told they are evil and useless ? Like are you afraid of men with pride instead of internolised misandry 😂

[@matthewcooper3218]

this comment is one way to pick up chicks

[@nobodythenobody9779]

You're right, men should just watch the view or other main stream misandry crap, I mean what self respecting man doesn't want to hear how useless he is 24-7

[@lillywho]

If it's a sincerely believed statement, then it definitely is worth at least a few brownie points. Calling women "chicks" though, like... How old are you, ten? There are a lot of ways of casually and _respectfully_ mentioning women, and this ain't it, chief.@@matthewcooper3218

[@nobodythenobody9779]

I don't understand why you people hate the "manoshphere", do you just hate men with self respect and confidence ? I'm pretty sure it's the only place that doesn't blame men's problems on men, yet y'all still don't get it

[@whatamess8764]

It was so sad. I knew a bright young man who had a lot of mental health problems and was unemployed because of the mental health problems. He used all his savings to buy a ticket to see Jordan Peterson because he genuinely believed that Peterson's words would help him.

[@chelseashurmantine8153]

:(

[@NoelleTakestheSky]

Only in the US are we supposed to see that as a valid choice, not as Peterson selling a scam.

[@scarpfish]

Another manifestation of the mostly American mindset of "I don't have to be an adult and work the problem. I can just buy my way to the solution."

[@belugaflying]

I want to feel bad for laughing at this

[@bensanderson7144]

That is sad. They should know by now that the Patriarchy hurts them, too.

[@Dreadlock1227]

“Just because someone else has a broken leg doesn’t mean your sprained ankle doesn’t still matter” is actually a really good quote

[@candybracelets]

Except when the insinuation is mens problems matter much less than those of other groups. I found it pretty insulting tbh, but I guess it's an improvement on mens problems not mattering at all at least.

[@dr.j9201]

Being a feminist means caring about boys and men too. The patriarchy imprisons men and women, boys and girls. I work fulltime and have a boy and a girl and I don't want this prison for either of my children or the toxic, malignant culture. Great video.

[@sha2596]

Same! I am the mother of a son. I want better for him. My feminism means I want him to grow up in a world where he can be respected and respectful, and also expect that from others.

[@cherstuff20]

@@sha2596 Same. Glad to hear my teen son say he prefers emotional honesty and actual problem solving to get through life, than toxic posturing

[@nanomia]

lol

[@dr.j9201]

@@cherstuff20 Great job on that! :)

[@petervizzini4006]

What you say feminism is about and what it's done are two VERY different things

[@ryanedwards7487]

This middle-aged millennial is so absolutely done with all these “manosphere”, “sigma male”, pick-up artist types. I grew up being told really stupid things like “boys don’t cry”, “men don’t show emotion”, “men do [this really dumb thing]”. Guess what-it’s all horse manure. All of it. It doesn’t make you less of a man to show emotion, or admit you need help, or to talk to your friends about real issues. It’s important to know how to deal with your emotions, because otherwise you deal with them in very toxic ways-I know, because I had to relearn how to do so. Don’t make my mistake. Strong friendships help you be better father, a better husband, a better man. Seek out good friends and you will be the best version of yourself, and that’s just a universal truth.

[@OGKiya]

i’m happy you said this. i like to think if we as a human race didnt have to go back and relearn how to be a better human and this was taught from the beginning we might have a fighting chance on getting more quality of life improving policy changes.

[@ArielLVT]

You're awesome!

[@cynicallyyours]

Also, if you have friends, your partner does not become your emotional crutch. I know so many guys who have 0 friends with whom they have a deep connection. They only have their wife or gf.

[@jmlkinc]

This is a huge topic. Lots of sad dudes end up becoming easy marks for grifters.

[@PeachyKins]

lol, still calling women the gold diggers 😂

[@MdZeeshanAnsari1]

​@@PeachyKinsit is truth there are privileges from DEI for women

[@markkinz7913]

As a man, this whole episode just makes me glad I go to therapy. I think it's definitely easy to fall for the traps of toxic male influencers when it looks like they have it all together, while the average person struggles. Great episode as always, Chelsea, even if it did raise my stress levels about the state of the world.

[@sk-wq5lu]

what kind of AI comment is this lmao

[@Jay-ho9io]

​@@sk-wq5luthe kind that makes incels so flustered they can't help but respond.

[@RealAfricanPatriot]

@@sk-wq5lu HELLO FELLOW MAN

[@jacobj3912]

I'm a CPA and I really like a lot of financial advisory content but why TFD really stands above the rest to me is it doesn't neglect broader societal commentary or ignoring the world we live in. Love to see the channel putting out this kind of content. It also is uniquely unscammey and avoiding fads. The Plain Bagel is another rare good one along with Patrick Boyle for similar reasons.

[@nathanofftopic]

I made the mistake of making a critical comment on an Andrew Tate fan video. Talk about male mental health issues.

[@matthewcaldwell8100]

They called you a brokie didn’t they.

[@sophiabreidfischer6242]

That to me is one of the downsides of the internet--making a normal comment and then having other ppl feel the need to be weird

[@elizabethswan5850]

Yeah I feel like men who start to view gurus as their de facto new father figure then become incredibly defensive for no reason when opposing opinions are presented

[@samo9275]

@@elizabethswan5850 this applies equally to any parasocial relationships/pseudo-fandoms, across gender. but the reason human beings become defensive in such cases is that they’ve projected a part of their identity onto this figure, and so critique of the figure is psychologically felt as a hit to oneself (one’s identity, values).

[@joostvhts]

@@elizabethswan5850 this, but equally true for so many other groups and their simped leader

[@davidduran9388]

Running a 'marathon' every day is a good way to ruin your joints over time. Ask me how I know. Don't do it.

[@danc6167]

This shit is even harder to deal with as a single dad when breadwinning is a life-or-death scenario for me and my kids. I HATE yhe grind culture and started watching TFD even before becoming single because I wanted a better way to look at money. I need content like this even more these days

[@OGKiya]

its becoming increasingly difficult to live a balanced life. it reminds of that video where that millionaire was threatening to continue to cut wages so that the middle class would stop feeling entitled to a living wage and hobbies besides being a corporate slave.

[@anastasiia2092]

A bit off topic, just on Jordan Peterson. After I watched a couple of his videos on depression, KZbin algorithms flooded my "recommended" with similar stuff. I was shocked to find out that his whole family are now gurus! His daughter has podcast, and strongly advocates, among other things, for having kids early which causes visceral "oi, only a small minority can actually afford it" reaction in me. Same for his wife, making videos about importance of stay at home mom for child development- are these people for real?? Do they actually get views? Like, having kids early and staying at home is the pathway to poverty for most of the people on the planet, who are these gurus speaking too??

[@TheMntnG]

@@anastasiia2092 they get paid by rightwing lobby groups, they buy their views

[@rory644]

They get millions of views but they’re all just grifters another one is Russel brand

[@kathrinscharrer3923]

Putin pays them.

[@enginerdy]

Wow, a little OT but I could have sworn his wife died and that was what sent him into that drug spiral that he had to go to Russia for some kind of fringe detox therapy for. Mandela strikes again!

[@metastract]

🤢 he has a daughter that he's brainwashed huh. Why and how do these types marry at all. They hate women yet can't live without them 😂

[@pablozky21]

As a man, this episode means so much to me. I realized toxic masculinity got to me when at 21 I developed an hernia on my back killing myself on the gym because I wanted to be manly. Since then, I have been working to deconstruct the notion of masculinity and reconnect with exercise in a way that doesn't hurt me or kill me. We need men to know that our idea of masculinity comes from the idea that we stand strong when we repress and obey the mold. But we need to break the mold and be free to feel and free to develop a healthier relationship with our mind, body and others.

[@MdZeeshanAnsari1]

at the expense of appeasing women ?

[@matthewcooper3218]

You've been brainwashed. You don't need to be jacked or be a jerk to be masculine and masculinity is not toxic. Good luck man.

[@cesargalvan9808]

I love your videos. Congratulations on your 10 year. I can’t wait for the 20 year anniversary when we’re talking about the Gen Alpha spending habits lol🎉

[@noveltyrobot]

Never stop what you are doing Chelsea

[@harrisonthorburn7415]

This might sound like simple advice, but if you are a man and you do feel loneliness and a lack of connection to others, there are two great things you can do, in my experience. Get yourself a dog and volunteer in your community. These things create healthy routines, make sure you are getting out and interacting with society, help expand your social circle, and help to provide a sense of purpose that I know a lot of men feel like they’re missing in your life. And that dog will give you unconditional love, and that feels amazing.

[@hadasabriciu3462]

This is awesome advice ( and I think it works for women as well - both getting a dog and volunteering in their community).

[@CatarinaStone]

uhm, no.. men have not been the providers and women the homemakers for millenia. This was a rather recent phenomenon and also limited to a specific class of people.

[@r456mjon]

Exactly. Why people not talk more about that?

[@matthewcaldwell8100]

@@r456mjonBecause Americans are historically illiterate. Sneering at the humanities for half a century has consequences.

[@parker9012]

Exactly, most of human history is men, women, and their children all working around the home to grow food for the family. If men were leaving the house for work, that work was almost always war.

[@MdZeeshanAnsari1]

evidence ?

[@CatarinaStone]

@@MdZeeshanAnsari1 any text from those times? Lived experiences? Both my grandmothers worked? How about you provide some evidence of the contrary? You know in capital there are plenty of accounts of women working. Like in the mines where they were preferred over the men because they were smaller and so could fit into smaller holes. Even the children fucking worked back then. And how the work was so bad that a lot of the women would just end up going into prostitution. I also remember the story of a girl working 16h shifts in some textile factory who ended up dying from exhaustion.

[@genreartwithjb5095]

A lot of men base their intrinsic worth on how much money they earn. Money means nothing, it’s only valuable on so far as it is a means to an end but it’s not nor should it be the goal. If I wanted to make a lot of money I wouldn’t have gone into being an oil painter but I make a decent income and don’t want to throw myself out of a window at the end of the work week. Men need to realize their intrinsic value is separate from their monetary value. Some money is good but I have no desire to help the next Jeff Bezos

[@chelseashurmantine8153]

Yeah life is about relationships so it's pretty sad to yoke onesself to something as shallow as money.

[@NoelleTakestheSky]

You clearly don’t have kids. Income doesn’t get to be about just making sure your bills are paid and that you can enjoy life when you’ve got to support children. You don’t see it as helping the next Jeff Bezos when it’s about helping make sure your kid can do activities.

[@BewareTheLilyOfTheValley]

​@@NoelleTakestheSky They're talking about self-value in the sense of achievements and worthiness, not the basic need of providing for your family. Wanting more money to support your family is fine, in and of itself. Wanting more money because you feel that you're a failure in life if you're not rich is something else.

[@manifest2203]

It’s not even money. One more thing I have found is, m4n bond with one another mainly about women- that he did this to her, that to her, and other ways of speaking poorly about all the women in their lives. Even recently there was an Korean issue of the Nth room controversy where guys even deep faked their moms and sisters. This type of bonding is shallow and will not last. And these types of men won’t ever get female companionship for the long hauls because of the way they act. And the cycle continues. Also, the aspect that a ma5n has to have more money, to be able to engage with more women is another aspect to it.

[@genreartwithjb5095]

@@NoelleTakestheSky I’m in the top 15 percent of US income earners and I have HAD kids. You don’t know anything about me

[@MintyFarts]

52:00 he didn't found Tesla, he took over Tesla, bullied his way into making it his public image.

[@taryndancer29]

There are also so many men who should be dating each other rather than women...

[@petervizzini4006]

Too many gays

[@matthewcooper3218]

This is one of the wildest comments I've read.

[@AzyrealLal]

True stoicisms foundation is empathy and compassion

[@matthewcaldwell8100]

I mean, not really. There’s no reason to fetishize Stoicism to begin with. It was a pretty brutal philosophy, but a LOT more skeptical and humorous than Holiday’s guru drivel.

[@DaljiImara]

Oh we are so back 🎉

[@thefinancialdiet]

Yes we are!

[@transsexual_computer_faery]

did they ever leave tho

[@matthewcooper3218]

@@thefinancialdiet No, you nosedived. You made a misandrist hit piece.

[@matthewcooper3218]

@@thefinancialdiet no you're not.

[@sulhwayuk6228]

“a baby on one boob, a man on the other” 😂😭☠️

[@General8675]

We don’t want to engage in sexist stereotypes, but here is one!

[@matthewcooper3218]

Sounds gross.

[@MdZeeshanAnsari1]

so ?

[@freddy1940]

@@General8675 The point of that statement was to make fun of sexist stereotypes about "girlbosses," women who are somehow able to maintain a home, care for children, maintain their beauty, and satisfy their husbands all at the same time. It is highlighting how ridiculous this is.

[@dgeata]

I think for a channel dedicated to financial literacy that targets those in the mid-20s and up, it's fine to ignore Tate. But I feel it's disingenuous to say most of his followers don't even believe him. You have lots of tween and teen boys who get interested in him and his lifestyle. To ignore him and say his followers don't even believe him ignores the fact there is a good chunk of gen-a who will become manosphere bro adults because they got drip-fed Tate in their teens.

[@dm96177]

I LOVE Dr. Andrea Love. She calls out the BS with facts and receipts. She isn’t afraid to speak out against these predatory content creators spreading fallacies.

[@lydiapatelll]

This was so interesting, Chelsea and team! Thank you for putting words into a phenomenon I’ve “felt” with finance bro influencers but haven’t quite found how to describe myself. I am a bit torn on the individualistic solutions. As a healthcare provider who also parented young kids throughout COVID, it really felt like we were ignored by the system and therefore had to “take matters into our own hands”. Half of society didn’t believe in Covid, hospital admin told us we were essential and yet we are not valued as such (from pay, from PPE), dropping the kids off at daycare esp in the early days when exposure risks were unclear while we go into the ICU and there’s no support if any of the kids need to stay home to quarantine, and we were “too well off” to get any childcare help from the govt. There’s a whole phenomenon of healthcare people feeling this way, and we’ve learned the system isn’t there for us. All that to say.. I would love a deep dive on healthcare folks burning out, and how that can badly impact society at large.

[@catfancier270]

There seems to be an idea in the culture right now that men (and women) worked so much harder in the past. So, if you are not successful, you just didn’t work as hard as your grandparents did. The idea that everyone was grinding in the past is ridiculous. My stay-at-home Grandma had a weekly house cleaner, for many meals served my grandfather Campbell’s soup, canned vegetables, and Wonder bread, had hobbies outside the home, and only raised one child. Grandpa had a desk job and had a yard man to mow the lawn and prune the trees and bushes. They weren’t rich, just middle class. Their house was modest by today's standards (2000 square feet, no fancy finishes, small yard). I’ve done heavier housework/yardwork than they ever did, and I’m disabled. I’ve had my disabilities my whole life. My parents had to sue our school district to get me mainstreamed. The childhood surgery bills took care of whatever extra money they had after that. I spent years looking for work before giving up. But my parents and I just didn't grind hard enough I guess. I live on benefits, cannot drive, and will never attain anything even close to the standard of living my grandparents had.

[@RonsarLo]

Oh wow. This one is going to get a lot of heat. Popcorn time?

[@matthewcooper3218]

They think they are smart because they spent a lot of money learning lies.

[@julianbell9161]

All the comments are pretty universally in agreement. Not much heat actually

[@tehvonfowler-chapman3170]

TFD has been the financial therapy that I needed since the pandemic! A lot of the finance dudes at the start of your video don't recognize how important a role shame plays in financial management. TFD has always been a message of "this is hard for everyone, and you can still do it", and I think that makes a huge difference in how you help people move forward.

[@ryanconrad92]

I thank the stars every night that I was born gay. I could never be in a heterosexual relationship my goodness! The gender roles, stereotypes, breadwinners, etc. would drive me crazy

[@jhod555]

Lucky duck.

[@lorrilewis2178]

The easily-bruised male ego is no joke. Women have to walk on eggshells.

[@majesticsnowleopard]

Real shit, you just get to sidestep a lot of bs

[@Abc-wp6mp]

I feel you. Don't get me wrong, we certainly have our own issues, but this sigma male BS makes my skin crawl. Women, on behalf of men, sorry....

[@EunMin-yt1xx]

No one is born gay. And I call CAP. Many same sex relationships have their own toxic issues.

[@cheesecurd100s]

I have a really tough time finding postitive masculine roll models for myself and my son. It's easy to point out the toxic traits.

[@RhaynWerz]

I warmly recommend the show and Podcast MenEnough by Justin Baldoni and friends!

[@ultramarinewaters9325]

I recommend Dr. John Delony. He has a mental health podcast on KZbin with many episodes focusing on actual issues men are facing in America.

[@Neiwun]

I recommend Prof G and HealthyGamerGG. Now that I wrote that, it looks like I have a fetish for the letter "G", but I swear those 2 guys are great role models for boys.

[@manifest2203]

Dave Ramsey, John Delony are good ones.

[@vilmariehernandez1189]

Not Dave Ramsey. HasanAbi is a political commentator with leftist views that aims to create understanding and equity for all people. Curses a lot though, probably not the best for your son.

[@veronicasmemories]

I'm so grateful I'm hearing about these influencers through TFD and not my algorithm.

[@LonkinPork]

Men will run a marathon every day instead of spending a few more hours with their wife and children 🤔

[@alexndg5260]

It's crazy to me how you will write an incredibly sexist comment and people like it. It's because of people like you and your selfishness and privilege that young men are having trouble. You are the problem, you are the privileged one. Your parents failed at raising you

[@manifest2203]

Agreed. They don’t want to do unpaid work. And they don’t want to be emotionally connected to their children and wives.

[@Dr.Beetlejuice110]

Not to say celebrities are the standard but this just brings up actors like Michael Keaton and Rick moranis. Who left acting for a time or forever to be with their family. Now who knows what kind of spouse they are etc. but that's why they said they left acting. Michael Keaton said he left it for a while to raise his kids and be with his family. He said that in an actors guild table interview.

[@ultimateenigma6038]

@@LonkinPork that's bc most hate their wives or having a family. It is something they think they should do in society. Many men ran back to the office after covid to escape the home lol

[@General8675]

Unfortunately, many women want their men to be “success” machines because men are disproportionately responsible for maintaining economic status. Many women would rather see their man die on his horse than fall off it.

[@user-te5po4bu8o]

Girl WHAT are you talking about? Up until very very recently the entire family worked lol. The men were not providing. The entire family down to the children were working. Not that I think we should go back to that ever. But this idea of one person providing is extremely modern. Just toss it out.

[@MistressShoue]

I think you're really onto something in the split between the working poor and the aspiring middle class. Many POC and wt poor families have never had the fantasty of the sole male breadwinner. You really can't talk about the financial manosphere stuff without getting into the race/immigration angle IMHO.

[@nicholasfederico1448]

It is a perception of a very specific generational era from the early 20th century. Working families were overwhelmingly common until the late Industrial Revolution that made leisure a much more accessible hobby for many families, and during the World War eras, with many men being drafted and deployed, the economy and families in general adapted to the single-income lifestyle. America specifically was booming, so it was easier to achieve, but as that steam ran out and we balanced back to a more realistic economy, the single-income dream washed away.

[@r456mjon]

You have a point

[@IshtarNike]

I think she mentioned that in another video but didn't go into the details here. I'm fairly sure she's aware of it.

[@pisceanbeauty2503]

I think she was moreso referencing the cultural notion. It is true that the idea of the “one income household” where dad works and mom stays home with the kids is not an ancient notion, especially as it relates to most people outside of the upper echelons of society. Most families worked at the family profession where the male was the figurehead, but everyone in the household worked and assisted in some capacity.

[@genekoch4202]

I once told a therapist that my one close friend at the time stopped talking to me during a period where I was desperately isolated and struggling... Their response was that I should "Be a Man"... this is the most absurd incident of such a thing, but certainly not an anomaly in my past efforts to find help. There are reasons (beyond just being stubborn) why men don't seek out help from others and often try to take care of it themselves in isolation through increasingly ridiculous means. It's often times for much the same reason that people who can't get modern healthcare access become obsessed with vitamins and miracle cures. I absolutely HATE the "Manosphere", but if we want to disassemble it, we have to have a smarter approach to it than most people currently do.

[@trymbruset3868]

This feels like a video about men, targeted at women. Although I appreciate that some of these issues are at least recognised, the only mentions of masculinity at all was with a toxic connotation, and no helpful exposition of the problems of actual men in these situation. Blaming it on gender norms, although likely accurate and an interesting observation, does nothing at all when not elaborating on what practically that even means for men. Invoking gender norms when expressed to women = empowerment, agency, freedom; but when it's applied to men it's not a term with meaning outside of "you're the arbiter of our oppression" yet. If this was meant to address men directly, you're preaching the smell of flowers to people drowning. You mentioned at one point a statistic about men receiving emotional support from other men, I don't speak for anyone else but personally I haven't received emotional support from anyone at all in 11 months, because nobody cares. I appreciate a woman at least recognising this issue, but these things might be worth taking into consideration for the next one if you choose to do one.

[@thegreatusername2355]

Strongly agree. It tries very hard to paint masculine norms as men's own doing and not something that many, many women knowingly uphold (followed by hand-waving away the obvious hypocrisy). To go on for an entire hour talking about toxic masculinity's relationship with money and pressure on men to be providers in particular without mentioning ONCE how important income and the social status of one's profession is to women, as proven consistently by the data, seems nothing short of disingenuous. Saying this as a software engineer who constantly comes across women who are strong and independent in every way that *doesn't* require them to step out of traditional female gender roles

[@tealkerberus748]

If men in your area aren't giving emotional support to other men, the solution is simple: men in your area need to start giving each other emotional support. The men I socialise with seem to be pretty good at supporting each other. Maybe they're less uncomfortable about it because all my men friends are LGBT+, but if they can do it, so can cis-het men.

[@CaraMarie13]

I literally just finished a session with a client that burned to the ground in the pursuit of more money. I can't imagine how man who are being told seeking help makes them weak are doing right now. It's wild 😤

[@chelseashurmantine8153]

Wow yeah I'm glad that there are people seeking help

[@NoelleTakestheSky]

Right now, “more money” often means “enough to pay the rent AND eat.”

[@TsarKashmere]

Well… the highest rate for ‘self unaliving’ is men +75 years old followed by men 25-44 years old. That’s where men who ‘avoid being weak’ end up. Men (in the US) commit suicde at a lower rate than women but that’s because they opt for more violent route… thus being more likely to ‘achieve’ it. Other than that, severe depression I.e men on a recliner rotting away with a cold one, higher rates of aggression/substance misuse which lead to smaller social circles and higher rates of liver, kidney, heart disease, etc. since even seeking help for their physical health is ‘showing weakness’. That’s how they’re doing.

[@lunar686]

@@chelseashurmantine8153 …it depends if there’s the appropriate help available… I think that both men and women turn to pseudoscience and con artists when the systems that purport to help them fail

[@matthewcaldwell8100]

@@TsarKashmerelet’s not pretend any of us live in a system that makes getting mental health care affordable or easy. Or that therapy is really all that effective if your problems are practical. I’m a guy. I’ve gone to therapy. You know what I got? Advice to meditate, some SSRIs, not so subtly called fat, and told that I should follow my passions. And this was multiple different people. I’m more than a little sick of being told not to isolate by a world that doesn’t think I have any dignity unless I consume or earn.

[@Stephanie_Ella]

My boss is somebody who always talks about money like it’s the only thing that matters, but then he has ZERO friends and hates his wife. 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@davidx.1504]

I feel like some (a lot) of the pressure on men to conform to a "toxic" version of masculinity is from social dynamics and cues from all of society, including women, that much of their worth comes from their ability to provide and make money. That at least seems worth exploring

[@mgmonteiro1]

Thanks for this video. My early 20's were entirely dominated by stoic philosophy, "self help" masculine stuff and the like. Ironically or not the thing that helped me the most was meeting my now wife and actually living together with a woman. Having a kid and having to actually raise a child together and be there for the child with exclusive dedication further cemented how impossible and asinine the "focus solely on the self" is in masculinity literature. I view content for men coming from women very positively nowadays. The stuff on self help did have good bits here and there which I carried over to how I see things today, but actually and truly including a community in your life entails a much larger and complex view than those guys often portray. Humans really are not islands, and it was an important lesson to me outside of the masculinity bubble, to even learn that I *should* be asking for help and I *must* rely on others, as well as people *must* be able to rely on me beyond just providing wealth, both in work and personal life.

[@carrino15]

This issue with the " man up" attitude is now being expected from women. Women then get chronic disease, endometriosis, fibromyalgia etc from autoimmune sickness caused by stress. But few care about the poverty this stress cause women with children, instead we needed to see the male lonlyness crisis to even begin to understand the stress all humans now live under causing everyone to be more lonly and tired and with less safe support systems.

[@matthewcaldwell8100]

Yeah, it’s awesome being a poor guy.

[@afreaknamedallie1707]

Endometriosis is not caused by "manning up" jfc

[@afreaknamedallie1707]

@@fkib8718 what in the rectally acquired bullshit is your comment bro

[@afreaknamedallie1707]

@@matthewcaldwell8100 why do you see a comment about women's poverty, a centuries long issue, and think "but what about mens? 👉👈"

[@afreaknamedallie1707]

@@fkib8718 what in the rectally acquired nonsense is your comment my dude

[@Earlybird86]

Changing the system seems out of our control, but getting better at playing it always seems like something in your control.

[@AW-zp7od]

These men don’t WANT the system to change. They just want to be the ones at the top. They cope by believing they can get there. But if there is no one for them to step on, they don’t want it

[@Pyridius]

15% of people cheating on their partner is an absurdly depressing statistic. By honestly, 5% also feels sad because it's the lowest rate?!?! Imagine 1 in 20 couples!

[@user-wc5lw7ps6h1]

Not really. Your local walmart closes, you'll find another grocery store to shop at. Same deal with your spouse/girl/boyfriend, they stop putting in effort and making it worth it, you find it somewhere else. Love is a need not a want 🤷

[@nanomia]

15 percent is actually lower than the real number I suspect it's higher but they didn't get caught or they didn't admit it besides how they're getting these stats? just from my personal experience it's like 50 percent or higher

[@matthewcooper3218]

@@nanomia lol you get cheated on because you desire the desirable and the desirable get lots of options. Enjoy your cats

[@matthewcooper3218]

@@user-wc5lw7ps6h1 It's easy for women to find a new partner. The fact that you describe it as shopping at a different store says it all.

[@nanomia]

@@matthewcooper3218 no I didn't get cheated on It's based on the experiences of women (and men) around me and in the world I'm just being real I'm starting to even doubt humans are truly monagamous there are studies that say humans are serial monogamous so we may desire being with someone else after years together people are just being dishonest with themselves and I'm not talking about just men cheat women do cheat too when they have the same opportunities as men so it's a universal human experience it's funny how you misunderstood my comment completely

[@Eldaino999]

This was absolutely fantastic

[@briannaobrien4419]

I talk to my bff like 3-4 times a week, we've lived in different states since we were 18 amd we're 30 now. Conversations last from a 5 minute I need to rant before work/class to hours just hanging out in a phone call. She also talks to her college bff just as if not more frequently because they're only an hour a part now that she just moved. Almost every time we're on the phone her bf is like "you're on the phone" "yep with Brianna" "AGAIN?!". Yes, again its not weird we talk so often my guy, its weird you can't/won't make friends or put in effort to maintain and grow pre existing ones. If you haven't talked to your "best friend" in 5 years, probably not a best friend my guy.

[@matthewcooper3218]

How'd that wall feel? If I was her bf Id run I can imagine what bs you feed her when you watch stuff like this.

[@canonically_trans]

So I was under the false impression that I was a man for the first 38 years of my life and it was really lonely. I would try to have real friendships and be called gay. One of the first changes that happened when I started openly living as a woman was the amount of maybe not friendship but solidarity other women showed me. I hated the fact when presenting as a man other women would (rightfully) be suspicious of me when I showed an interest in pursuing a friendship. Men can be dangerous, and I have seen men try to exploit a friendship in that manner.

[@mildsoup8978]

Ya heard that fellas? Nothing more manly then standing next to your brothers and having the balls to make the rich and powerful pay their dues. UNIONS BBY!!! Because we are sick and tired of being sick and tired!

[@manifest2203]

Unsurprisingly, you have missed the point. Again 😂

[@Pomagranite167]

I think he got the point. He probably just loves unions as much as I do. And i do get wet for a delicious little union.

[@jessicaanne3490]

Oh my goodness. My ex husband to be got into running and then extreme marathoning where he’d be traveling all the time. It got to a point where I just didn’t see him anymore. He also took up having drinking with the members of his running club, because what’s better for your health than drinking vodka during a 100 mile race? He eventually left me by text after 18 years together, said he wanted a happy care free life and that he felt like he could be himself when he was with his friends. I thankfully do not have kids but I was very much left behind to do all the chores when he was away.

[@colinfrederick2603]

As a man who has watched this channel for years, it’s kind of odd being the focus for once, lol! I enjoyed this channel for broadening my horizons and didn’t expect it to ‘come home’ as well. Thanks!

[@DarkFire515]

Something to note - the hustle-bro concept of 'stoicism' being that men have to be emotionless robots is a total and fundamental misunderstanding and has nothing whatsoever to do with the actual ancient Greek philosophy of Stoicism.

[@kwi5331]

Thanks!

[@James-vj5hz]

I don't know why so many men are obsessed with taking care of women. Let them do their own thing, and do your own thing. Have a girlfriend that has her own place.

[@BlackRaven000]

It's not about taking care of her, which would be kind of sweet. Irl it translates to total dependance and control which allows him to be as abusive as he can without worrying about her leaving. Some of these guys think they have to conquer and break women, like it's a manly achievement to flex.

[@nanomia]

why have gf at all? just be on your own leave us alone y'all are just a burden

[@manifest2203]

Men are actually the real dependents. Most women work a full time job and take care of others. But men want women to take care of them. They say woemn nag them but in reality they do it to women- for s4x, his food, his laundry, to tidy up the place he dirties, asking her to take care of his kids more than he himself does and so on. Also, men make fun of older women and say older women are in decline and no one wants them. But in reality, no one wants older men- to make him take his tablets, watch his diet, schedule his doctors appointments and go with him for visits, blood work reports and so on. And it is woemn who give end of life care to men and it is almost never vice versa. But men pretend that they don’t benefit from marriage.

[@manifest2203]

Men are actually the real dependents. Most women work a full time job and take care of others. But men want women to take care of them. They say woemn nag them but in reality they do it to women- for s4x, his food, his laundry, to tidy up the place he dirties, asking her to take care of his kids more than he himself does and so on. Also, men make fun of older women and say older women are in decline and no one wants them. But in reality, no one wants older men- to make him take his tablets, watch his diet, schedule his doctors appointments and go with him for visits, blood work reports and so on. And it is woemn who give end of life care to men and it is almost never vice versa. But men pretend that they don’t benefit from marriage.

[@user-wc5lw7ps6h1]

@@nanomia "Every man I've ever had in my life was a disappointment or let me down in one way or another so every man must be that way" Fixed it for ya

[@dabbyabb]

Excellent video. I've noticed conservative men (and women) voting against their own interests for a while now, and how ideology makes so many men I know identify with and defend the very men who are exploiting them. This explains why it's happening and I really appreciate this video.

[@sha2596]

I have a very young son, and my prayer is that things change before he is old enough to internalize that his brand of being a boy and a man will not be valuable unless he fits a toxic norm. I want mentally, physically, and emotionally healthy masculinity with respect for all people in a world full of men and women to be the norm for him!

[@genevalawrence801]

You CAN affect this.

[@uraddiictOnx3]

@@genevalawrence801literally right now 😂

[@krystelhardesty9960]

That is pretty easy just make sure you and the people around you and your family do those things. I have 4 boys and that is one of the biggest things I have instilled in them never be around people you wouldn't want to be like. Who you hang round and are your friends makes a really big impact on the kind of person you are and the life you will lead.

[@matthewcooper3218]

@@krystelhardesty9960 That's why men are leaving dating and society. Too much toxic femininity. I wish your sons the best of luck. A woman can never teach a boy how to be a man.

[@parker9012]

​@@genevalawrence801 yes, probably the biggest ways to influence that is to model that behavior with your husband, and, more importantly to find a community that shares those values

[@iTzDritte]

If my wife was the primary breadwinner, that would be hot. I don’t understand why so many men are uncomfortable with that.

[@HindiLearnersDiary]

I do not understand that either. I am a wife who makes more than my husband. It did not have a negative impact on our marriage. I feel this is totally fine. I still love him 😂

[@Commentator488]

You can’t understand because you’re not insecure and you’re a mature adult.

[@NoelleTakestheSky]

Because society still presents full-time parenting as a mom’s responsibility to the point that dads are called babysitters, and still says a measure of a man is the size of his paycheck. In a small way, it makes slight sense-when a woman (biologically speaking, not gender identity) gives birth, she should have time off to recover. 100%. But this does mean that her career advancement will be put on hold. There’s no way around that at all. And it’s reasonable that employers will not want to put someone into a position where their responsibilities may get put on hold, especially when that may affect the livelihoods of others. Even if she’s paid the entire time she’s off, and reenters where she was, those who didn’t give birth will have continued moving on, and those people are more likely to be men. There is no way to split the birth and recovery aspect. So it’s seen as her job, and the money part is the man’s job. So when a man isn’t able to “do his part,” he may feel like a failure. If she gives birth, then he’s the at-home parent, “What, she gave birth AND is making the money? What do YOU do all day?” The actual parenting part is devalued. Then the woman is told she’s wearing the pants in the family. That phrase-pants in the family/house/relationship-needs to die.

[@DMFTexTex]

I would honestly love being a tradhusband. Stay at home, look after my house kids and body, and cook for my lady. Unfortunately of course, the dark part is that the lady has to be independently wealthy for this to be able to happen.

[@Maybemaybexyz]

Most women want a partner either at or above their level. Look at the dating statistics and what they seek in a partner. Not knocking just providing a counter viewpoint. We need to reimagine what it means to be a man and a women in todays society

[@Becky_Cal]

21:04 - I want to address the union membership issue…specifically bc she’s right, unions offer non-college educated men the best chance of earning a living wage and a life of dignity. Yet these same men constantly vote against their own interests by electing Trump and other “masculine” Republicans who have been on the record since the Reagan era about hating unions, crushing unions and eliminating them bc it cuts into the profits of the companies those same “Republican men” own and/or run. Sooooo, I ask you, is this a self created problem? If as a man you lack empathy for others, you vote against your own interests, you don’t protect the very social and economic structures (like unions) who are there to protect workers like YOU, then how can you expect empathy for a problem that is self inflicted? The whole victimhood energy is soooo unattractive and frankly, not masculine at all. Reflect on that for a little bit.

[@Fernando31611]

Like we say in latinamerica: "Silence, my Telenovela has started!!!!"

[@Dialga9187]

The supposed expectation for a woman to "take care of the household no matter what" is just as toxic an idea to women as the "I must be a breadwinner for my family" idea is to men. I fear both were subtly endorsed as truisms by the content of the video itself...

[@MdZeeshanAnsari1]

so ? what is your evidence ?

[@Dialga9187]

@@MdZeeshanAnsari1 my evidence for the nebulous concepts I described is my faith in your ability to continuously evaluate reality for yourself. TLDR - if you dont see both as bad, you're dumb, and if you only see one as 'a thing that people perpetuate' then you are one of very few people with such an experience, congrats! Celebrate your uniqueness I guess.

[@MdZeeshanAnsari1]

@@Dialga9187 your so-called has no basis and zero critical analysis and this video contains no face-to-face debate to prove its points that it claims. your so-called faith is bullshit and nonsense

[@Papiup18]

Men being tough, not crying, not emotional, is a necessary trait to survive as a man in the world. The thing is men were able to rely on women as reinforcement for their health. Having women as a backbone no longer exist, more men (and women) are single, so here we are.

[@matthewcaldwell8100]

No, It’s not. That’s your own unhealthy and pathetic conditioning. The greatest role models of masculinity in art and literature were deeply emotional men.

[@matthewcaldwell8100]

@@matthewcooper3218 You read it in a woman's voice because you're, frankly, too smugly ignorant to consider the possibility that you're wrong. In this case, so completely wrong in historical terms that you approach mental handicap. As for women's actions, patriarchy is an ideology. Women can and do reinforce it all the time. Something isn't feminist just because a woman says she believes in an idea. An elementary distinction, although I'm not surprised it escaped you.

[@matthewcaldwell8100]

@@matthewcooper3218 Oh, troglodytes like you don't have a problem with men being emotional. You're arguably more emotional than anyone. It's that the only emotions you can metabolize are fear, disgust, and rage. You call it self--mastery to flatter your ego, but it really is the most abject surrender to emotional fragility available. Take an oxygen vacation.

[@HashFace253]

I feel like the realities of being born into the proletariat has forced me to "grind" and overwork myself more than traditional gender roles and the need to be a breadwinner. My class status has made me being the breadwinner the NECESSITY rather than my gender status and internalized views of masculinity making me WANT to be a breadwinner. I have been told this is my own internalized toxic masculinity by gender studies people which may well be true. I still think capital is the force crushing men and women and every gender rather than any gender imposing oppresion on anothed, or even themselves.

[@thiccactus]

Beautifully worded. I couldn't have written better satire if I tried.

[@MdZeeshanAnsari1]

you are wrong you just need to save money systematically and invest after doing extensive research

[@julieannsarabia]

26% of men not seeing a healthcare provider of any kind means they're likely a walking talking cocktail of STIs.

[@AnusiaLA]

They would have to actually get laid to get STIs. There is a huge increase in the number of virgin men well into their 20s… and less and less people are having sex.

[@WattersWaveYo]

​@@AnusiaLA Well said. As men, we're taught to "suck it up." Therefore leading men being too stubborn to visit the doc.

[@taryndancer29]

Yep. Hence why my rule is "no glove, no love"

[@user-wc5lw7ps6h1]

Have to get laid to get an STI. Most aren't.

[@kinetic-cybernetic]

Your assumption makes sense, but in the numbers, it's rather women who carry those. That is because women are having way more sex than men.

[@Boahemaa]

This is great. I am exasperated by all this and I am pessimistic that young men will pivot even as it is obvious their life satisfaction worsens when they immerse themselves in these echo chambers.

[@piernikowyloodek]

Same, this is one of the most depressing topics for me. Manosphere giving their listeners simplistic explanations for men's unhappiness (e.g. it's because feminism that you struggle financially right now, dear adolescent boy); young boys being targeted, drawn into extremely negative vision of the world or women BEFORE they actually have any real life experience of it. I'm horrified all this is firmly in the mainstream now.

[@MarkOfArc]

Out in public, I overheard a younger woman saying “it sucks to suck” (referring to a male date) and it boosted my mood (as an elder-gay man) ☺️

[@cwalker6911]

I love when Chelsea does the montage song lol

[@kurtisbunker7724]

Good episode. As a stay-at-home/homeschool Dad, I appreciated it. The flip for us for single income breadwinner was hard.... and longer than we thought. Took a lot of resources. In the end... she is kicking ass in AI/ML data career tho... worth it.

[@aaronsmith1474]

the critical flaws of individualism are so on display during this crisis of masculinity. when winter comes, the lone wolf dies while the pack survives.

[@matthewcooper3218]

The lone wolves seemed to have made their own pack.

[@cramp4221]

I have been loving and NEEDING these feminist perspectives on the male crisis. too often are women's opinions completely dismissed or erased, and it just doesn't make sense without us

[@matthewcooper3218]

It is not about men having trouble internalizing sadness. Society does not value male feelings like it does for women. Women support each other, and men support women. No one wants to hear a man complain or be sad. Most of all women do not care about men's problems. There are very few exceptions.

[@matthewcaldwell8100]

It’s both. Men are definitely conditioned to believe that nobody cares, and by nobody more than other men.

[@RogueDonut87]

Great video! As a younger millennial man I have definitely seen this behavior with my male friends, it’s very difficult to get them to discuss emotions or make more time for friends vs spending time on work / self isolating. Glad this is being discussed.

[@EtruskenRaider]

When we’re talking about “men” being conservative, we’re really talking about white men and when it comes to white men, they tend to only interact with other white men. Especially if they tend to work in trades or other professions that are largely male and who live in areas that are exclusively white.

[@handthefs8197]

That is an interesting hypothesis.. Do you have any resources that you could reference on this or is this just an observation? White men specifically in the USA seem to have a very rigid form of systemically toxic masculinity, i.e the subjugation of others to achieve economic goals and dominance etc. The socialization aspects of these idoleologies seems to be largely effecting young white males as well in my opinion. There is a very strange distance that americans keep from their boys they dont seem to encourage or respect love and effection or vulnerability in any way. Lots of people defy these generalizations obviously and especially in large cities but a huge population of the USA is still stuck to these definitions of masculinity if politics is any indication.

[@IshtarNike]

This isn't really true though. When you poll minority men on their BELIEFS they're often similarly conservative. They just don't vote red because they're smart enough to see the racism. But they're usually not very fussed about the sexism. Honestly it the republican party dropped the racism they'd see their support among non-white men sky rocket purely based on the misogyny alone lol. That's not an issue with minorities per se, but again, as per the topic of the video, an issue with toxic masculinity and the way boys and men are trained to always see women as adversaries and not partners.

[@EtruskenRaider]

@@handthefs8197 Thinking about a man who lives in suburban or rural America and who works in a male dominated profession… That man, if he’s single, could go weeks without a meaningful interaction with a woman.

[@chillin5703]

The race part... Nah. Men of all backgrounds tend to be more conservative. - J

[@EtruskenRaider]

@@chillin5703 tend to be more conservative sure but that doesn’t mean they’re on the whole conservative.

[@Cyberspine]

I'm glad this video is discussing this topic, since it's affecting so many. One important aspect that was not thoroughly covered, however, is who the men get their cultural norms from. The only concrete source mentioned in the video are male social media influencers. I think that they are more a symptom than the cause, though. These cultural norms are most readily adapted from one's immediate family and friends throughout childhood, adolescence and early adulthood, after which they are fairly static. For example, the father and other male figures like teachers act as role models, and if they carry certain expectations of masculinity, then it is going to have a much deeper impact than any influencer would later on. The cultural expectations of 'toxic masculinity' are not held just by men, though, but also by women. If you ask men directly why they don't open up emotionally to their partners, a shocking number will share stories about how they opened up about traumatic experiences to their partner and were met with ridicule, abuse or even a break-up. The cultural norms cannot be changed just by men alone.

[@TJ-yv3kp]

This was a great topic👏👏👏

[@DimaRakesah]

"They are seeking, almost exclusively, the opinions of other men" I am in a group focused on mental health for gamers, which is mostly made up of men, and this is very true. They ask other men "how do I talk to girls?" as if women are not just other humans you can talk to about whatever you would normally talk to your male friends about. But when women tend to speak up to answer them they can be attacked or written off for their advice, despite being the very group that is being asked about. It's very strange to watch as a woman. It feels like they see women as an NPC and they have to ask their fellow male gamers what dialogue options to use to get a romance plot line with their target female NPC. You wouldn't ask the NPC for this advice, clearly!

[@kasey42]

Never bought into the whole "money is life" thing, so have never been driven to "excel" at making a lot of money, I simply wanted happiness. I mostly had jobs that paid the bills with good benefits (especially health) and am now on disability for a lifelong issue due to a childhood accident. I bring in about $17,500 a year currently, and am happier than i have ever been. I have a roof over my head, food in my belly and kitchen, and a fair bit of social life.

[@super1upmushroom]

Thank you for talking about this subject with compassion rather than contempt. I'm sure this vido will reach out to many men who need this type of advice

[@LuckeGabriel]

Men are finding that as women have become less reliant on men to achieve a baseline standard of living, that the amount a man has to earn to be considered attractive has increased, yet men are not reaching this point. There's a wide variety of different tastes men have and how they want their partners to be, but all of that is a deeper detail, while the macro factor is simply: men are becoming economically less attractive to women and women are able to have more comfort and time to pick and choose from a much wider dating pool than ever before. Statistically there's always been a higher rate of men who are chronically single than women, so part of it seems like it's just we're talking about it more, kind of like how mental health conditions have always existed, but we just weren't aware. The manosphere influencers get just enough right in what they say to lure frustrated men into their attention web, it's the stuff they get wrong that sadly warps any remaining hope of them having a woman give them a chance.

[@nanomia]

I hate to break it to you but it's not just the money now men needs to be likeable to be with women and so many are just misogynist assholes now women have their own money they don't need to tolerate any bs anymore

[@tealkerberus748]

The economic thing is very much a national governance problem. In countries where health care and education are high quality and government funded, and there is good social welfare for people who are out of the workforce for whatever reason, women don't need to choose a man based on his pay packet. At that point the question "will I be happier married to this man than single?" depends on his personality, not his bank balance. I've seen plenty of long-term-unemployed men get married and stay married. For every one of them, his wife loves him because he makes her happier than she would be without him. But I'm well aware this would not be possible in a country where the husband not having a good job would mean the wife and kids don't have access to health care when they need it.

[@OGKiya]

i really feel for men after watching this and i’m happy i watched this video because at one point i had a lot apathy towards men and believed they caused their own problems but now i see that its a lot deeper than that. while i did always believe that men were just as much victims of patriarchy as women were. this video showed that they are trying really hard to improve themselves albeit taking a very misguided approach, the intentions are still pure. id imagine if i was raised to have a visceral aversion to stereotypical feminine behaviors i would end up in the same loop. this video also helped me take a second look at my circumstances as a woman that lives alone and lives far away from any family. the loneliness we experience is a product of late stage capitalism and not a direct indication of our failures. we are all trying our best. yes i do still wish men took different approaches to address their issues but now i see that the real change needs to be at a level above the average man.

[@JoshuaColeman-x4z]

I love it when educated people say thing like 'flop era' 1:12

[@cadmium7690]

I have a 60 year old family man friend with three daughters and a wife which he says would eat him alive if he showed any fear or other messy emotions. Their expectations are absolute and non-negotiable .

[@Drager00]

The individual and society perspective of masculinity needs to update to modern society. And US modern society needs to drastically change to support a healthy community. To survive should be extremely easy and be getting easier, rather US society has only gotten more difficult to survive let alone thriving. Without creating more free time for people and creating space to create community we can't decrease the epidemic of loneliness and isolation.

[@parker9012]

Idk, so far it seems like the statistics show more and more men opting out of society. The number of men who have no friends, no sex, and no job is steady increasing, and I don't think we have any strategies to stop it.

[@pamelastoesz733]

I love what you said about the 4 Hour Workweek. I read it and was like, "eww, no thanks." Exploiting people ain't it.

[@karenandrews4224]

They could just study in school and maybe not blame women

[@FireSilver25]

And go to therapy instead of expecting women to be their “peace”.

[@mpatreece2726]

​That part!!!!

[@mpatreece2726]

💯

[@user-el4su7tl6f]

😂

[@TheMntnG]

not blame women yes but american school has nothing to do with stability in life

[@MaddieoftheMoon]

the 4 hour workweek summary absolutely got me - so good.