Christian TikTok is UNWELL

[@LittleMissLounge]

The whole "He's coming back any day now!" thing has strong "Dad just went on a trip to clear his head for a while" energy. Sweetie, it's been thousands of years. No, he's not.

[@smfreij]

I love this! Bestie…dad ain’t comin back😅

[@i.aint.1.of.ur.little.friends]

I'd sooner expect to see Quetzalcoatl on the subway than Jesus anytime soon.

[@ninin117]

i swear at this point humanity has a higher likelihood of encountering some kind of extraterrestrials before we meet jesus

[@salaltschul3604]

Jesus went out for a pack of smokes.

[@LittleMissLounge]

@@i.aint.1.of.ur.little.friends That would fuck, TBH.

[@DefinitelyNotSeveralRaccoons]

I’m still watching but “just accept you got ghosted” absolutely SENT ME

[@merbst]

Where exactly did it send you? (I'm starting to feel like an old man who does not know these new words)

[@DefinitelyNotSeveralRaccoons]

@@merbst this is gen z slang for when someone says something extremely hilarious! Think so funny it “sends” you out of orbit, like “I literally can’t even” energy

[@amberallen7809]

Same. It reminded me of something a student of mine said to me the other day. (I teach 4th grade English as a second language in Thailand. It's a Christian school, but most everyone would consider themselves Buddhist, and I am no longer a Christian nor a Buddhist) Student: Teacher, there's a ghost in the church building. Me: what does it look like? What's its name? Student: It is a man. It is Jesus. Me: Jesus came back to life. He's not a ghost. Student: *unimpressed* He only did it once, and it was 2000 years ago. He is dead again. No one can live that long.

[@stheno4783]

Absolute perfection

[@kyra1257]

I’m not religious but I did have a close friend in high school who was/is a seventh day adventist. I went to a christmas party at her house with her family and her dad said a prayer that was let’s hope the rapture happens soon so we can go to heaven and live the life we want and have everything we’ve ever wanted. It was so heartbreaking because they lived in poverty and felt that god would just save them from poverty one day without them doing anything

[@christymckissick9217]

I just want to say as a previous Christian who now isn’t, you are such lovely people. I’m sure you were even kind as Christians too but then realized you wanted to be more genuine and good people who don’t judge others. I can see what loving and beautiful people you both really are! You just see people for who they are and give the benefit of the doubt and I strive to be like that without holding too much against my fundamentalist reformed presbyterian family I grew up in. Thank you for your content, it’s really helping me heal. I love that you aren’t just bashing other humans with differing beliefs but instead, you’re gently sharing how certain beliefs can be harmful without hating on the people themselves. ❤ I love you

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

🥹💜💜💜💜💜💜

[@Meganmama]

This is so hard. I grew up Christian and I’m still trying to figure things out at 39 years old. You’re absolutely right that the only way to truly maintain a solid, unshakable faith in one religion is to keep yourself cut off from the rest of the world. I studied abroad for a semester in the Himalayas in 2004 and it blew my mind so hard. I also worked with children who experienced severe abuse when I finished grad school. I couldn’t reconcile why God would favor me and not care about these kids. It makes no sense. I’ve struggled on and off ever since. And yet…I still have a hard time totally abandoning it.

[@lorinapetranova2607]

For me Zen style psychology and inner peace has worked wonders but I still like the Vedas n my Shiva music. The Eastern religions make more sense. But I still can't get with ceremonies n rites n regimentation. Point is why cling so tightly to just a tiny sliver of the vast amount of Awareness and Epiphanies that the Universe provides to us when there's infinitely more? Many blessings of peace and compassion.

[@IraLuxuria]

As a former Christian I think it's been helpful to be able to say that some things in the bible are compelling stories. Stories of ultimate sacrifice, God bleeding for love of us are beautiful concepts in a way. The freedom of not being religious means you can acknowledge those lessons and feelings and not feel like you then have to find a way to rationalise everything else in the bible.

[@ahami232]

reading the book the second time through sealed it for me... reading it. from start. to finish. really gross concepts all throughout, and alot of nothing stories written by nomadic peoples a few thousand years ago. so boring overall tbh

[@mercuryshadow5452]

I hope your process is going well. There’s a lot of ways to participate in or retain parts of Christianity without taking all the baggage. But ooof I feel ya on the problem of suffering. I think that’s one of the big ones that led me to athiesm with the possibility to someday believe in a non-omnipotent or fallible deity/deities again at some point.

[@SurferGirlAllAroundTheWorld]

It’s a security blanket and has comforted you your whole life and now the thought of letting it go is scary. And there’s nothing wrong with that. It can take time. As you slowly let go of your comfort blanket, you’ll become more independent inside and will find comfort in other things or just simply yourself, your life now and your family and friends. Deal with what’s in front of you now and appreciate the world around you. That’s a start to letting go.

[@bookslikewhoa]

The chemistry between Tanner & that ball of yarn was electric

[@EatYertle]

Hi, my name is Janelle, and I feel the holy spirit through this baby tooth I lost at my baptism, which I keep around my neck.

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

Beautiful!

[@ThatRedhedd]

🤣🤣🤣 Nice! I'm Janelle, too! 🙌🏼

[@slowdivingg]

honestly, thanks sm for talking about people being like "god showed me..." or whatever bc my mormon mom (im exmormon) will always be like, " heavenly father showed me..." or "heavenly father told me.." and its so annoying like- lillian, god did not tell you where your car keys were. youre brain thought through it and made an accurate guess.

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

COME ON LILLIAN

[@toasty973]

MY NAME IS LILLIAN-

[@slowdivingg]

@@toasty973 op- sorry

[@tahliel]

You guys are so refreshing! I remember watching an American football selection with my husband. A guy was selected for the team he wanted to play on and given a massive contract, and he thanked Jesus. Not his mum for driving him to all his games as a kid. Not his coaches for teaching him to play well. And not himself for the lifetime of hard work, dedication and sacrifice to become the amazing player he was. I couldn't understand it. Jesus wasn't there, he didn't do anything. This guy did it. It's stuck with me for so many years.

[@ThatRedhedd]

Yes! Everything good is God's loving compassion and everything bad is God teaching us something. ETA: I'm speaking as a non-believer, of course! 🤣

[@eggybaconbits]

"Do you want to know why I believe in God?" Nah not really. I kinda just want to eat a whole sleeve of Ritz crackers and some cheese cubes while crocheting and chillin with my dog.

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

My brain instantly went “not really” every time I heard that line hahaha

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

that sounds literally perfect

[@eggybaconbits]

@@ZelphOntheShelf and you KNOW they'd instantly say something similar if we said "do you want to hear why I DONT believe in God?"

[@scryptcrypt3528]

When I took a dive into Christian/Evangelical TikTok during a time of deconstruction, it was off-putting to see people's entire personalities, nearly every second of their day, devoted to their religion. No nuance, almost no room for other interests or depth in their personality. I couldn't believe life itself was portrayed as a series of tribulations in hopes of earning the "eternal prize of heaven", as I heard it described once. I'm still navigating a faith transition (it's so not easy), and I'm still learning to let go of the constant hum of religious trauma and anxiety underneath everyday life. It's so reassuring to know that we can take our time in healing! Thank you Sam and Tanner for understanding the journey. 💞

[@azukib2230]

Thanks for doing the homework we’re too afraid to do. I’d not be able to last 5 seconds through those tiktoks

[@chispitablanca]

I started deconstructing as a teenager, so my timeline is a little hazy at this point. I remember thinking that if Mormonism wasn’t true, then it was also likely that Christianity had some fatal flaws. As soon as I had the realization that the Bible was just written by men and had been translated so many times that there had to be a good number of errors, it was all downhill from there.

[@emilyrln]

It just occurred to me that I stopped going to church about a year after joining a community choir where I could sing way more than I could during the service, with a greater variety of music styles, among people who were as excited to be singing as I was.

[@ThatRedhedd]

I totally get that! I grew up Christian & went to a Christian university, where my favorite thing was the tri-weekly chapel & worship. Right when I got there, I was suddenly ready to acknowledge I was gay, which led to my deconstruction. To this day, though, I LOVE Christian pop/rock music & worship music (and singing). Singing uplifting, positive, melodic songs makes your brain produce seratonin and dopamine, I'm sure - and it's addictive! The rest of the churchy stuff can exit stage left!

[@emilyrln]

@@ThatRedheddAmen to that!

[@SteenatheCatrobat]

The first guy had the same energy as that “there’s no such thing as coincidence” person. Edit: Watching this has also confirmed to me something I’ve learned in my own faith/religious journey; Good religion/spirituality should mirror good mental health and a healthy relationship. The more it looks like you’re living in submission to an abusive partner, the more likely you’re in a cult/spiritually abusive environment.

[@TheAzul_Indigo]

I left Christianity and Mormonism for the same reason; if God is everything the scripture says he is, he is the most powerful being in the universe, sets the standard for “morality” but lets the devil exist, he is accountable to no one, makes his own rules that he can change at any time require the murder of his own child, and hates humanity because of the way he created it. If that being does exist, any rational human should hate them.

[@nourkhan1399]

God will create a new Earth without evil and the devil. GOD will destroy the devil. But everything won’t happen in our timing. It’s about Gods timing. He gave us free will. Most of us choose the devil ( sin ) and he is patient with destroying all evil because he wants most people to come to heaven. He wants everyone to go to heaven. God loves you. I will pray for you ❤️🙏🏼

[@TheAzul_Indigo]

@@nourkhan1399 No thanks! I no longer believe in free will, sin, god, heaven, hell, or a devil. There is no evidence that any of those things exist.

[@jamybailey]

Sam. I fucking cackled at the "amino acids in rapunzel's hair" 😂😂😂😂😂

[@jamesmorgan1967]

I feel like in 2-3 years that first tik tok guy is going to have his own ex-Christian KZbin channel.

[@h.chappell9775]

Physics nerd here. I actually just watched a debate between physicists discussing the multiverse theory/string theory and how (as there is no experimental data backing it up) it’s actually kind of like theology! The “theory” is being changed to fit any data that comes up kind of how the word of god or whatever can change based on context/revelation. Science and religion and their overlaps are so so so fascinating.

[@emilyrln]

The first one genuinely looks like he stopped taking his meds without talking to his doctor, and I say this as someone who is on meds. Like, I'm legit concerned for his wellbeing.

[@lukaj679]

I met a classic midwestern white guy in college who used the exact logic evangelical Christians put out to confirm for himself that the Bhagavad Gita was true. He felt emotionally moved and it explained the purpose of life to him. I think about him every time I see Christians use their emotions to confirm their beliefs. Oh, plus he never proselytized to me

[@lorinapetranova2607]

The Gita is true. Too bad you still see life inside a box. Break down those walls. Comparing Eastern religions n lifeway to western culture and Abrahamic religions is extremely limiting. Many blessings of peace n compassion.

[@lukaj679]

@@lorinapetranova2607 I prefer the guy I met who didn't assume things about my spiritual beliefs and talk down to me.

[@jasperhernandez7364]

What does his race go to do with it ? Odd

[@lukaj679]

@@jasperhernandez7364 because his appearance goes against the prevailing worldview of the Christians in my culture. I live in a place without racial diversity (very white) known to be the bible belt of my state, and yet the exact type of person seen as the average american man felt what evangelicals in my area swear is unique only to Christianity. I have seen proselytizers go out of their way to hand religious pamphlets to people simply because they weren't white.

[@rightsarentpolitical]

Exvangelical here - EXACTLY what Tanner said at the end is why not only did I leave Evangelicalism, but Christianity as a whole. Those critical thinking skills + realizing how poorly I was treated even while I was a Christian by the Christians who were supposed to be my community.

[@impimp-b4n]

tanner I am a Hindu Indian and its so refreshing to see you have knowledge about vishnu , bhagwad gita and cultural beliefs , also I love how vibrant both your personalities are !!!!!!!!!

[@sydneychristensen2058]

Also yalls outfits really brought it this episode, looking amazing and giving us laughs lol thank you

[@scryptcrypt3528]

I'm still learning how to develop the confidence to live my best life without all the "noise" of the internet, especially TikTok, as my parents call it. Thank goodness for learning about fallacies and critical thinking! 😭I'm just relieved to have learned from an Ex-Mo podcast that there is a life after a faith transition! You two are proof of that, thank you.

[@flutenanyidk1806]

Something that’s been helpful for me is reconnecting with nature. You don’t have to go full witch or Wiccan or pagan to do so. All you have to do is walk barefooted on the grass sometimes. Soak in the sun. Dance in the rain. Hike through the woods. Really enjoying the beauty of the earth has helped me “feel the spirit” outside the confines of religion. Tonight we had a big thunderstorm with lots of sleet. I wasn’t dancing in it for long, but it was such a magical feeling to run out on my front lawn, thank the sky, and just enjoy it. In those few seconds, I would say I felt the same joy that I felt at the temple.

[@sydneychristensen2058]

Very first TikTok is playing right now and I'm very afraid of that man and his orb eyes

[@jamesmorgan1967]

Downright terrifying

[@ninaradio]

Re: the “transforming power of Christ,” growing up evangelical I had such a hard time with this. It felt like there was so much unspoken pressure to have a dramatic testimony (note: in our world, “testimony” meant the personal account of your salvation/how faith changed your life, not a statement of your beliefs). The last night of church camp always ended with this big bonfire where people could get up and deliver their testimony. There would always be someone older who got up and gave a dramatic story of having been caught in some horrible sinful life, praying the “dinner’s prayer,” and everything changed. I would feel so boring and unimpressive because I just grew up in a religious home and by default “chose” to be saved, no drama, no change. But then, as I got older I realized that some of the most dramatic testimonies were coming from people who I knew had also grown up like me. The year before their testimony had been pretty boring, but now they’re telling us that before they were saved they were sneaking out of the house to go to Satanic rituals in the graveyard (I grew up during the Satanic Panic of the 80s)? What’s crazy is that, for a while, I really did believe that’ Jennifer H. with the perfect hair really had been hiding a burgeoning drug addiction that none of us ever knew about. Maybe all the popular girls in the 7th grade are (I wondered in my own 6th grade mind)? Maybe that’s how she got her hair so perfect? Who knows what drugs can do? But as an adult it’s so clear that these kids were just making shit up to manufacture the narrative of dramatic transformation because we were taught to crave it, to celebrate it, to grasp at it as “proof” of Christ’s power. And on the one hand, the actual adults around that bonfire had to know it was BS. But they never tried to tamp it down. And they would turn around and gobble up without question the breathless tales in the testimonies offered by traveling preachers or newcomers to the congregation.

[@hellaboveme500]

Today I learned if you don’t believe hard enough god is powerless. It’s like a reverse tinker belle situation. Don’t believe harder everyone. We can fist fight god together

[@rosemosebose]

Ex Catholic here, thank you for this video! I’m glad I found the deconstruction community!

[@rachelhansen2417]

My shelf had its first break a while ago, and my process of deconstruction afterwards involved using educational resources about Christianity (because I wanted to avoid “anti-mormon” stuff). In other words, I deconstructed Christianity before I ever left the church.

[@jodie8687]

As a former fundamentalist Christian I love your channel. I've been evangelical and eastern Orthodox. There are fanatics in both. Also, I put coconut in my banana nut bread. I need this candle.

[@LadyCastlevania]

The first TikTok. Going on about the lack of faith preventing god from performing as many miracles is really giving the same vibes as Santa’s sleigh being powered by Christmas cheer/spirit in the movie Elf. Lmfao

[@ashlynonline]

i literally thought the exact same thing

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

Ok but it’s real in Elf ok

[@petrichorbones]

the first tiktok already omfg that one is also always used to accuse someone of not believing or not having enough faith or not praying hard enough etc etc for instance im disabled with a chronic illness and i've had fainting spells basically my whole life. i was in a new church and i had an episode where i almost blacked out and was unwell the whole service. every single sunday after that sunday they greeted me with "are you better yet?" instead of "how are you?" no matter how many times i explained bc they expect a "miraculous healing" if you are a believer and if you continue to be sick and also believe in god then it must be a punishment or you must not be believing hard enough and they really do make you feel very shunned bc of it. this happened a bit before i finally gave up and stopped calling myself christian lol. it was my first time back in a church after like 7 years of not going.

[@petrichorbones]

oh yeah it was an eastern orthodox bible scholar that i learned more about the bible from which made me doubt the validity of the bible. obviously i grew up evangelical so i was taught all the incorrect things evangelicals are taught. it does seem eastern orthodox acknowledges the flaws in the bible a lot more than i was ever used to a christian acknowledging lol

[@petrichorbones]

i was already not calling myself a christian by then but i decided to look into other versions of christianity bc i kinda still believed inwardly. i didnt wanna be associated with evangelicals anymore but i still thought the christian god was true lol

[@audreyb1393]

Mormonism led me to deconstruct some parts of mainstream Christianity as a child. The big thing I had already deconstructed was the Heaven/Hell model of the afterlife. Mormonism teaches almost universal salvation (to a degree), and I could never understand why people took the Heaven/Hell model without question. What loving God would operate that way? So when the Joseph Smith piece fell, I didn’t feel I could fall back on belief in a God who’s sending so many of their children to eternal torment.

[@virginialikethewoolf2075]

Why do I not believe in God? Well, I just don't think a loving God would invent the Krebs Cycle.

[@CharlesPayet]

TRUTH!!!

[@CharlesPayet]

So very true! I had to learn it multiple times, and it was torture every time.

[@Moundfreek]

All of this would have gone over my head without Tanner's yarn visual.

[@pixiedustthemakerofmagic2339]

I left the church because I was taught not to do something all growing up and when I went into the temple it was FILLED with it. I never felt so betrayed and pushed to the side because I am a female.

[@jonah7216]

Re: why didn't I join another Christian church. The narrative I leaned towards when leaving the church was that my process was an intellectual motivated exercise to lay out a rational case for or against the church. Looking back, I feel like I didn't acknowledge how much underlying emotion was motivating everything. The role of the ideal young Mormon never fit me comfortably, especially on my mission where I was able to perform it but was miserable the whole time. That put the pressure on me that started my researching the church's truth claims. So, when I left, I think another Christian church might have been able to snatch me up, rationality be damned, if they had made me feel good. But when I visited other Christian meetups during and after my faith transition, they didn't. They were shitty missionaries. They didn't try to get to know me, let alone convert. At one point I even sat down with a pastor to see if he had a persuasive outside-of-mormonism argument for god's existence, and the guy laid out some arguments (there aren't good ones so that was disappointing but not his fault), but didn't offer any sense of fellowship or community. He was also a bit of an asshole -- he said I'll probably end up doing what most Mormons do when they leave mainstream Mormonism, which is join the Community of Christ. To be clear, that's not typical of Mormons. He might have also been a bit of an idiot. So yeah. The churches I encountered when I left weren't good at presenting something enticing to people who weren't already part of their ecosystem.

[@davidjanbaz7728]

Try Inspiring Philosophy channel!

[@acatnamedm4529]

I went to an evangelical church sponsored dance recital for a relative last week. It was fine, but the end prayer had two phrases that made me do a double take. The first was 'Jesus, groom these girls for your purpose' and 'as these girls bathe in your blood'. I'm looking around wondering if I'm the crazy one. Apparently I am. This is ok imagery for kids but drag queen story hour is right out.

[@pennamealias]

Yikes!

[@kissarococo2459]

Drag shows teach boys that making mockery of women is a-ok.

[@diemdia]

Omg the Huberman lab podcast about alcohol made me drastically cut my intake down too lol. People ask me why I’m not drinking anymore and I have to say “well I listened to a 3 hour podcast..”

[@royce6485]

I loved his recent one on weed!

[@hadassahholl6327]

I have been sober almost 10 years and stopped having damaging interpersonal relationships. No Jesus needed or involved.

[@roscoedacat8288]

Don’t seethe a calf in its mother’s milk. But it is part of the multiple requirements in Leviticus. Jews interpret it as refraining from cruelty in the treatment of animals.

[@songs-of-seers5139]

It's also not bad dietary advice to separate eating milk products and meats. Especially pre-refrigeration, though also from an average ease of digestion perspective. Nearly every aspect of kosher food rules seem to stem from attempts to minimize food poisoning (shellfish), minimize cruelty (butchering methods and prohibitions against wild land meats that might be snared and killed in less than humane ways ), or both (meat and dairy prohibitions). I just find it so fascinating when some of the origin can be deduced.

[@bjpuck]

Tanner with the ball of yarn lol 😂

[@abi2693]

Yo yo yo yo yo. "Faith is such a weird concept because they think that in order to be a Christian, you have to believe all these things that may or may not be true. And it's like, why is that the heart of it versus taking care of the poor and needy?" As a follower of Jesus who deconstructed from evangelical Christianity, and a therapist that specializes in cults (so imagine my faith crisis when I came face to face with the reality that American Christianity is a cult LOLZ), what you said is SPOT ON.

[@aripinkberry1810]

There’s a tragic story behind my name. My first name is Angee Gabriela however, I don’t like the religious context behind it because you guessed it, it was inspired by the angel Gabriel with an added bonus of the fact that my mom had a friend named Angie and she was really pretty, and she remembered her after I was born. I go by Ari though because it’s gender neutral, I like the sound of it, it’s cute, and I don’t identify with my birth name. the icing on the cake is that my mom wasn’t satisfied with naming me something different from anyone in the family. She also spelled it “uniquely.

[@BlueLemons_96]

When I saw the first guy, I thought 'Christian Joffrey Baratheon" and I cannot unsee it.

[@hellomynamesninooo6017]

I have a story of someone I met who found Christ and his habits didn't change. He was a coke addict, and it ended his very successful career in finance or something. He "found Christ" and was able to quit drugs, but then he started to "think he was greater than god" and went back to his addiction. This conversation took place in a homeless shelter; he clearly wasn't doing very well, even then. He played the piano beautifully though, that I do remember.

[@MS-wh7ec]

Tanner was so brave to show us that vulnerable moment with the yarn, stunning xx

[@lorinapetranova2607]

I really must tell you 2 that as part of the growing family of exmo's and listening to these cases of internal religious and spiritual agony... for the first time in my life I am truly appreciating having been raised in an atheistic parental situation. We were also allowed to decide our own religions likely bcos we're adopted from unique backgrounds. I learned early on if I was Buddhist people would leave me alone and they did. My sis took on the Baptists and reading the Bible n took a wad of verbal abuse. I could relate to Buddhism. But it has taken decades to say the word God comfortably. So I want to thank all these people for helping me throw off some rooted psych issues. Many blessings of courage and fortitude, strength and perseverance. 🌸🦋💙

[@lark7655]

my favorite thing to bring up when people tell somebody to "just turn the other cheek" is to remind them that historically? that was definitely an act of malicious compliance on Jesus's part. If Jesus was real, he would have been Jewish, and therefore under the rule of Rome. In Rome, Jews, women, slaves, and just anybody who the head dude didn't like was seen as lesser, and inferior, and so if you were going to hit them, you would do it with your palm to show that they were lesser. If you hit them backhanded, it meant they were your equal and you were trying to start shit. ALSO anciently, the right hand was seen as clean and pure and used for holy acts, and the left was used for unclean or improper stuff that you shouldn't do. SO If a roman soldier were to hit a Jew, like Jesus, it would have a palm hit, with the right hand. By turning the other cheek, they would have 2 options. Either use that same hand to backhand you, implying that what they're doing is good and clean, but acknowledging you on equal footing and giving you grounds to hit back, or they would have to switch to their left hand to slap with an open palm. Which would imply that what they were doing meant you were inferior but it wasn't okay and it wasn't something that should've been done. It's a way of subtly and powerfully standing up to corrupt and bigoted people in power and challenging them without causing more damage to a large group of marginalized people, like outright rebellion might.

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

Whoah!

[@sarahjane7255]

My f*ckin' name is Sarah! Hahah. As a fellow exmo convert, I love your channel so much.

[@clairethompson5549]

As a knitter, I can say with absolute confidence that god doesn’t give a shit about the state of my yarn basket, has not helped me untangle any knotted-up wool, and is, in fact, a TERRIBLE knitter.

[@DeMiRoxmysox02]

I love that your channel was suggested to me. Learning about different religions makes me realize that everyone is just trying to find a way to feel safe. At this point in my life I take religious texts and just look at them as a very cool book written by a group of friends. They just passed it around and added what they thought was good. I get why someone would want to follow a religious text. It gives them a guide book. My issue comes when now you’re taking the text and using it as a reason to hurt people. Then you’re essentially choosing someone you don’t know and have never seen AND have no proof existed, in the way you have read, over the people you live and exist with everyday. Your religion should make you a better person for the world. Not another judgmental person that gate keeps other people. I say all this to say, let people be.

[@trikitrikitriki]

Sadly religions based on salvation and eternity require that believers bother others. After all, either the possibility of going to Hell is so horrible that you're cruel for not pushing your beliefs on others so they can be saved from that, or Heaven is so amazing that you're cruel for not pushing your beliefs on others so they can be happy, too.

[@sydvictim8798]

Every time I hear the phrase "be submissive to men" I throw up in my mouth a lil bit. I appreciate that you guys see and expose the dangers while also fully admitting there are good people out there who identify with religion. Also sorry, I'd worship you but you're not a beautiful whale statue :/

[@crazymema23]

Cast your worries on those knitting needles and create away. God the ultimate crafter.

[@DefinitelyNotSeveralRaccoons]

Hi yes it is me, loyal subscriber, Jack Weyland

[@kassieonatuesday]

Seeing your perspectives as people who are familiar with Mormonism is very interesting compared to myself as a Christian. You are right about the fact that LDS and Christians will say they have “visions” and say “God told me”…. when it could very much be thoughts in their brains. Since I am a Christian, I am very very skeptical when anyone says they heard God tell them something, those prophecy TikToks aggravate me most of the time. God said everything he needed to say in the Bible, so if someone has a “prophecy”, it has to be tested by the scripture. Just as I believe nothing can be added to the Bible, such as the Book of Mormon, I find many prophecies try to add to the Bible and what “God says”.

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

Although it is a misconception that God said everything in the Bible. Nowhere in the Bible does God say that. A writer may have said it, but it was most certainly in reference to whatever document the writer was penning at the time. The Bible is a collection of books. And there is no in-text reference to God ever giving the Bible an authorization at all. The Bible has become the idolatrous stumbling block of Christianity.

[@kassieonatuesday]

@@ZelphOntheShelf I think the point I was getting at was no one can say they have a new revelation from God, like Joseph Smith claimed he did. Christians take scripture as God’s final word , and I understand that you may not agree. Anyways, I enjoy seeing both of your perspectives and I try to be an open minded person as a Christian. I despise how religion has ruined so many lives, but I hope to prove myself as a reflection of Christ and his love.

[@sarak6860]

@@ZelphOntheShelf How much have you actually studied the Bible?

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

@@sarak6860 i studied it regularly for 20 years, reading through cover to cover multiple times. i regularly listen to podcasts and lectures by bible scholars to get as much context about it as i can. :)

[@sarak6860]

@@ZelphOntheShelf I have found that I understand the Bible better by getting away from the King James Version and reading through other versions. Not only is the language more up-to-date, bit it has helped me to escape from Mormon interpretations of different passages. I have read NAB, am finishing up RSV (Revised Standard Version), and will soon begin the ESV English Standard Version). NAB is a Catholic version because I wanted to read the seven books that Catholics canonized but Protestants have rejected.

[@kristiealdrich4575]

Their faces while watching the fist tiktok lmao

[@BradyReading]

The absence of a complete understanding of our physical world isn’t evidence of deity, but instead is part of the motivation behind why we want to believe in deity to begin with. Not knowing how things work is scary and disorienting. God solves that problem without any need for proof or evidence. Belief in deity is probably just a social security blanket that we have used again and again to make life and death a little less scary.

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

well said!

[@simplybet8104]

my name is Bet and I don't think I can handle evangelical christian tiktoks right now.

[@zoria2718]

(Watching the first tiktok guy:) "Damn, I always forget that marijuana is now legal in the US"

[@sedg83]

I love that: something can't come from nothing ... Then where'd God come from? 🤣 excellent point

[@heybay2625]

The first guy is serving scary white supremacist meets televangelist vibes.

[@songs-of-seers5139]

This is a side point and a ramble, but it got me thinking about oral histories, how we view them, and their relevance and retention of meaning over time. , but oral histories are very effective at certain kinds of knowledge preservation and keeping accurate records. The problems tend to arise with aggressively literal and non-contextual, non-cultural readings (such as the way American evangelicals often wield and weaponize the Bible). This is so nitpicky, but the telephone analogy drives me up a wall. In telephone you aren't getting repeated messages, and there's generally no context for the string of words. It's much more like retelling a story you've heard since childhood, over and over again. The details or flair might changes from the version you were told, but the core will remain. Core metaphors and themes tend to be preserved very well, as they are padded in context. Many oral traditions also incorporate careful, piecewise memorization for the most critical information, and mnemonic devices such as songs. A few examples of oral tradition being very effective, and in fact outstripping the written word for certain types of knowledge preservation are :Some native peoples of the American northwest have legends depicting tsunamis (and that if the water retreats you need to run for high ground. These legends successfully transmitted the knowledge across hundreds to thousands of years between major earthquakes but were dismissed as great flood stories or similar until recent scientific work exposed the potential for major earthquakes, and the kinds of tsunamis the stories appear to depict. Stories of ravens bringing fire or light have turned out to be nearly literally true (they like picking up flaming twigs, but have to drop them when they get too hot.) Polynesian navigation, completely recorded orally, was, and remains, incredibly accurate; it can still sometimes outperform our best weather models. That being said, oral knowledge transmission is inherently altered as culture shifts (new tellings not being copied verbatim), and is generally intended for an audience with a core cultural background shared, at least in part, with the people and culture that produced the tradition. Writing down oral tradition can be a wonderful way of preserving it when the tradition and culture from which it springs is dying or dead, but there is inherent loss in the change of form, how it is learned, and lack of cultural context. Many of the core texts of Judaism were written down explicitly because what was intended as an oral tradition was threatened with total loss in the face of wars, upheaval, and the loss of core institutions. It is foolish to read the Bible and not recognize it as the written form of an oral tradition and inherently changed by translation, recopying, and codification into a standard text. Translation strips fundamental cultural aspects, even from purely written works. The inherent change and shifts in meaning of any language over time complicate "correct" readings. A fixed text slowly loses its cultural reference points as the world moves on. Codification and standardization only worsen the stripping of context. You're absolutely right that the divorce of the Bible from context and metaphor is completely misleading and renders claims of absolute truth dubious, to put it kindly. Also, I disagree completely about the ocean creatures. The messed up weirdness and complexity and creepiness of life seems absolutely wonderful and awe-inspiring to me. The weird wonderful resilience of the ocean, even in its most vicious, feels mystical to me (obviously that's not proof that it's god driven, or proof of a deity, or any indication of a deity's moral frame or temperament). But I'm a big ocean nerd and I've swum in the sea out of sight of land, over nearly 4k meters of depth, with no fear of the ocean (not to be confused with ignorance of the risk), so take that with a grain of salt proportional to how much the creatures, and the ocean, bother you.

[@flintfoster8010]

When I admitted to myself that I was queer and started 'struggling' with the church, I was planning to make a tiktok channel about being queer and in the mormon church. The worse i 'struggled' with my faith, the more i felt like making a tiktok about it.... A way to keep myself 'accountable' by showing people how i could stay in the church.

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

TOTALLY. It’s so so common for people to start writing “why I choose to stay” type stuff when doubting, we both did!

[@lellow19]

I'm obsessed with Sam's top!

[@lellow19]

You both have the best clothes, fr

[@lemueljr1496]

I think the hardest thing about trying to stay Christian after Mormonism is the fact that there are so few Christian communities that are willing to question themselves. I still LIKE the idea of Jesus, and I'm happy to hang out with progressive Christians and talk about Jesus things a few Sundays every month (finding adult friends is hard, cut me aome slack), but I don't believe in the divinity of Jesus anymore than any other spiritual icon and I really want to spend more time engaging with other things that have meant or mean more or even feel more like the good things Jesus has represented for me in the past. When I use the name of Jesus now, it's a code word to signify a meaning or a purpose that I know will communicate something I can't utter yet other people will understand, but it doesn't mean "a literal Godman who lived in Israel two thousand years ago" to me.

[@skorqion_art]

my name is Lea! I love weird christian tik toks I am very excited!

[@britnicox3929]

The secondhand embarrassment I feel from how earnestly over the top they are in the music and how they talk is so rough to endure lol

[@mariaperez9301]

Sam, please share your vegan roast recipe!! I want to be cozy too and I have no savory recipes! At some point banana pumpkin bread doesn't cut it anymore!

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

It was the Trader Joe’s vegan roast haha 🙈

[@indicatmusic]

Great video, also 10/10 wardrobe aesthetic!

[@jlofthou]

What made me decide not to be a Christian after I left Mormonism; Despite all the arguments about doctrines between the Christian faiths, once you're out and you look at them objectively they're 97% identical. Every single fundamental religious issue I had with the LDS religion I had with every other Christian religion.

[@yeshuasaves217]

How?

[@jlofthou]

@@yeshuasaves217 Their god created man to worship him, mankind is tested by actions in this infinitesimal life that they will be judged for eternity, Jesus saved those who accept him by taking their sins, everyone now needs to follow his leaders on earth and obey rules about clothing, diet, sex, language and marriage or face eternal damnation. All the rest is just Minor details that really don't affect eternity.

[@yeshuasaves217]

​@@jlofthouthat is not what scripture was saying it was pointing and saying the only way to heaven is by perfection not of good deeds, and that none are righteous. Doing all the works you stated are like filthy rags to God. By faith alone in Jesus's death burial and resurrection is what saves you apart from works. You don't read one verse out of context that's honestly what a lot of other Christians do. They say repent of sins the Bible not once says that. Repent means to change your mind you change your mind and put your trust I christ its a free gift. You should do things he mentioned but if you don't do any of those things you can still enter into heaven b3cause it's by faith alone. Scripture says to him who worketh not but believe on him who justified the ungodly his faith is counted for righteousness. Mormons say you have to do works that's a contradiction. It's not the same there is a big difference.

[@jlofthou]

@@yeshuasaves217 thank you for helping to prove my point so perfectly.

[@DeconstructingDeeJayGee]

I'm doing a series on the evolution of the Bible and protestantism. It has really helped with me deconstruction to see just how many changes have happened and if all these theologians can be completely confident in their interpretation, I can too.

[@FrumiousMing8]

That one guy who was like "When people don't believe, miracles don't happen" is so fucked up because if you follow that logic down its natural course you end up with "People who are suffering don't believe in God enough". That is not helpful and actually really dangerous rhetoric

[@dr-skelebones]

As a historian, I wouldn't put aside oral history in as absolute of a way as Tanner does! It's a key source in many cases, and western dismissal of oral history has been used to justify racism against many Indigenous cultures globally. Just a little note, your videos are very thought-provoking :)

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

thanks for the added perspective!

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

oral histories are important because they help us understand how cultures view themselves, but as narratives always evolve with time and retellings, they don’t always reflect what is literally true.

[@sarak6860]

@@ZelphOntheShelf Written manuscripts don't always reflect what is literally true, either.

[@jessilovely]

Ex- Christian here 🙋🏾‍♀ My dad (missionary, pastor yay great fun growing up LOL) used to say that every word in the Bible is inspired by God and that if it’s in there it’s meant to be there. And I was like, what about all the rape though… From what I’ve seen, Mormon/LDS is super strict with tradition like clothing, sacraments, etc. whereas Christians can be hardcore about doctrine, taking things super literally and refusing to change their beliefs even if it’s harmful. Either way, there is a lot of shame involved in both. (And of course there’s different strains of Christianity). I had the privilege of growing up in a family where dying a martyr for God was seen as honourable and ideal. Now I am a pansexual, polyamorous (Daddy’s Dream haha) artist and harpist barely scraping through life in Northern Ireland but also feeling more free than ever. Meanwhile, my parents are waiting for the war to end in Yemen so they can go be missionaries there where they think they will die. 🤷🏽‍♀ yarp.

[@smfreij]

Different strains 😂 like a virus

[@dondo5100]

Not a physicist, but a physics enjoyer here. First of all, particles and their opposites are constantly popping in and out of physical reality. Like 0 turning into -1+1 turning back into 0. I could be wrong, but from what I understand the singularity that caused the Big Bang spontaneously, randomly occurred with its antimatter counterpart, but was able to somehow escape its counterpart and expand, becoming our universe. Hopefully I made some sense😂

[@laurenpayne8194]

im a christian but i agree with you guys in like everything and that sooooooooo many christians are very scary and have a very narrow viewpoint on things and need to chill and the emotional manipulation in so many hypercharasmatic churches (the lights, music, chanting?? to name a new) is very real and should ring warning bells for anyone christian or not p.s. I love you guys and your longer videos it always makes me so excited when i see a new zelph video has been posted😊

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

💗💗💗!!!

[@SteenatheCatrobat]

Oh gosh SAME. Christian (but a very open minded one). I have extremely personal reasons for still believing, but I acknowledge that my experience isn’t the same as everyone’s. But yeah, deconstruction and healing through religious trauma has helped me to see these TikTok videos for how they are. A lot of them have similar vibes as MLM schemes I’m noticing. DX

[@nyssalynn5216]

So, I have DID, and while I was a mormon, an alter formed that i refer to as the narrator. Im pretty sure it is a direct result of mormon trauma, shame, and this belief that I wasnt hearing gods voice because I was sinful. So, my brain created its own "voice of god" which is absolutely terrifying. Im just grateful that i was only a mormon for 3-4 years and that the narrator didnt come around til near the end.

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

💜💜💜💜💜

[@ThatRedhedd]

I'm glad you got out! You joined the LDS at some point from being "recruited," so to speak? Now that you're out of the church, is the narrator still active?

[@nyssalynn5216]

@@ThatRedhedd yes, but less so. Not every day anymore

[@amvguerrero]

Well, since you asked at the end of your video...I did leave Mormonism, AND Christianity behind too when I first left, because of "critical thinking". I was actually very much the same thinking and way about it as you two present in this video. Even took it a step further, to laugh at the "ignorance" of anybody who was stupid enough to believe in Jesus...UNTIL, after living in this way of thinking for a number of years, God showed himself to me. Not in a way that was in my mind where I was talking to myself, as you described here. He appeared as a very seperate Almighty being as real as if I was in the room facing another person, and all encompassing connection with the heart that I was not in anyway, as how I believed at the time, inclined to believe! Strikingly similar to Paul on the road to Damascus. Intensely personal. It completely changed my attitude. It completely changed my life. I was reborn.

[@nataliella97]

12:52 I really wish you guys would give more info on this girl bc she's totally hitting on a point I LOVE about judaism, and I imagine lots of other moderate religion followers love too. being part of the world's oldest book club means you kind of HAVE to acknowledge that different bits got added at different times, both within the timeline of the torah (some of the people mentioned all the way at the beginning lived for HUNDREDS of years allegedly) and within the timeline of commentary by rabbis that goes back centuries but impacts the way the religion gets practiced today. belief doesn't really come into it so much as having ritual and gatherings in common with others. (and before anyone tries to tell me you can't find muslims or christians that do the same exact thing, I raise you the family that poured me shots to drink on their behalf during eid al-adha celebrations, or literally every "atheist" with a christmas tree in their home!)

[@soymbean]

the yarn part LMFAOO

[@pawpawpascal1524]

Shoot, evolution of compassion? Got my tea time read ready to go tomorrow thanks for the topic suggestion 🧬

[@savvymitchell]

I LOVE y’all’s outfits! Cute 🌼💛

[@misssashleyrae]

A lot of Christian groups do think courting is the way, not dating as most of us do it. They have supervised dates, women need permission from their fathers, etc.

[@The_Other_Ghost]

Wasn't the first clip from Blair Witch?

[@Chandler27]

Normally Tanner's fashion has my attention but Sam, that top!!!!

[@savanaerie]

"it's been 2000 years! when will you just accept that you got ghosted! he's not coming back!" speaking straight to my limerence right now 😂

[@aubreetanner9543]

One of the best but hardest parts of leaving the church was having to deconstruct every individual piece of my belief system, even things I never really realized were related to my religion, and assess if I still believed them. Jesus and Christianity was obviously one of the first ones, but since a lot of my reasons for leaving were related to the underlying beliefs that we are here to have our inherent goodness tested by a God who supposedly knows everything but still needs to test us and that faith is a virtue in the same way kindness, integrity, and empathy are and lack of faith can make you worthy of infinite punishment, amongst other things shared by other types of Christianity, it seemed like a no-brainer.

[@katethielen3883]

6:07 Sam: 👀 Tanner: 🤨 Me: 🫠 6:26 Sam: 😑 Tanner: 😬 Me: 🪦

[@katethielen3883]

11:04 🧶🫡

[@katethielen3883]

13:00 weird thought, the only reason things are saintly word vs heretic babble is who validates it 🤔 if I emailed the pope, he could theoretically add my email to the book, and those who say "that's heresy" would be dispelled by saying "all saints are nobody at first"

[@kismetcaffet9862]

Bruce Alexander did loads of work proving the mental health benefits of a supportive community (mainly through addiction studies). Some of the results are really fascinating and it would be wonderful for us to find a way to apply his findings to mental healthcare.

[@nutmegsmama]

I deconstructed over several years. The major shift in my perspective was when my nephew was born. I loved my nephew so much that I figured that if God could let little babies undergo abuse and sickness in the world and do nothing about it, he wasn’t a God I could worship. And I started just assuming it was stories instead of historical events that took place. The more I learned about the creation of the Bible, the less I could believe it. I still miss church and spirituality, but I can never believe in Christianity again.

[@blondieHPfan10113]

Tw: death It was in early high school end of freshman yearI gave up fully on trying to figure out if I could be Christian after leaving mormonism in middle school but a friend of mine that was raised Christian and also left his faith passed away from a brain anyrism and that was the first time I felt like there truly couldn't be a God if someone so wonderful and compassionate couldn't have a longer life, and while I know it's a symptom of a deeper issue that's what I remember when thinking about how I truly lost faith in any religions If you read this thanks I love this channel and love when my long ass comments get read lol ❤

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

🩷🩷🩷

[@Nelia2705]

Most important message: share this with 3 people - sounds like an MLM to me 👀 😬

[@rutasudmantaite9751]

I never understood the whole ‘god talking to you thing’ even as a 5 year old I knew I could just say shit in my mind… it’s not god. Confused.

[@brennajones722]

I joined a non denominational Bible study after I left mormonism. While I was going I realized so many of the issues I had with mormonism still existed in Christianity. It was also the first time I had looked at the Bible with a critical eye and realized how much of it was complete bull

[@themedicdroidx10]

My name is Camden! Shocking, I know

[@Constantin9va]

Y’all should come out with merch in a corset/bustier style. Like Sam’s fantastic top! THINK of the free promo you’d get from the exmo/exvan insta thoughts! It’s the perfect way to come out as post-mahdest, while under the umbrella of protection of the Almighty Zelph🌈💀💕 #thoughtpride

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

Oooooh ✨

[@ZDubbed]

Bro there is no freakin way. I used to watch meredith foster when i was like 12. This is crazy for me

[@ZelphOntheShelf]

Right????

[@timnewman1172]

Coming from a conservative Lutheran background, we have turned passive-aggression into an artform, instead of the "in-your-face" aggression of the American Evangelical that dominates "christian culture" in most parts of the country... both are bad!