A Disappointment From LK Chen - The Roaring Dragon [sword talk]

[@JustaBug]

UPDATE: Some of you might have seen the community post I made. This is the same content. It contains an update of the events following the release of this video and clarification of a few things from the comments. Following the release of the video, LK Chen's team reached out to me and offered to reimburse me for my time spent sharpening the sword and they were receptive to passing on feedback to their quality control team. It was a very generous gesture and they did offer other options for resolution such as a full refund of the sword (which I did not take them up on) and I appreciate it. However, the main issue wasn't the money or the cost, it was that products like this should not be passing quality control. So I raised this with them and they will be having a discussion with their factory in China and they will send videos I have sent them of the sword being unacceptably blunt to their team. Going forward, they want all of their sword to pass the paper cutting test prior to them being released and shipped. There are a few things I would like to clarify. In the first instance, I received a 10% off my next order with them and did not think it was a great offer, but I did not argue or ask for anything further as the money was not my main issue with them. So LK's team did not refuse me a refund or refuse to make things right. I just didn't ask for anything further and it wasn't offered on their end prior to the release of the video. Second, LK's customer service team was never rude or dismissive. They were always very friendly and polite and more than willing to help. Please do not blast LK's customer service team or throw accusations at them, that was not the point of my video. Third, LK Chen does not have bad products, they had just been let down by quality control. In terms of steel, make and handling the roaring dragon surpassed my expectations, but it was just let down by sharpness. Their steel and sword quality appears to be great for their price point, and if they can fix their quality control I would not hesitate to buy from them again. Going forward, it appears LK Chen's team has taken the quality control complaint seriously and will be addressing it. I hope we never see a lemon like mine come out of their factory again.

[@ObscureJester]

I received a flying phoenix recently and had indeed some QC issues. I documented it by pictures and sent them to LKC. The sword had the following problems: 5 large stains on the blade, clearly visible, probably dirt spots before etching or wrong polishing; 20mm dent on scabbard cap, several bumps and stains on scabbard, paint applied wrongly in 4 areas. Other than that, the sword is functional and excellent with handling, nimbleness, balance. Yet, LKC immediately replied, apologised for this jian and offered me a new flying phoenix for free (which I am currently waiting to receive). I am very happy with their customer service, it really shows a company that stands by their product and cares about the customers. Problems might happen at all times and it's great to know they promptly manage to fix any issue in case. I will definitely get more swords from them.

[@JordanClymer-fh3pf]

Great to know they stepped up their game to address this. Thanks for sharing.

[@Matthew_Jensen]

What an odd miss. Strange to get so many nuances and small things right only to miss a major one. Good luck with your book sir.

[@outsideiskrrtinsideihurt699]

Have you ever had a problem like this with LK Chen? What’s your overall opinion on them?

[@dlatrexswords]

@@outsideiskrrtinsideihurt699 I’ll add my data in addition to whatever Matt chimes in with: I’ve handled about 2 dozen different LK Chen swords and purchase from them regularly. There seemed to be issues with consistent blade sharpness a few years ago (~2020) and when a new model comes out, there often is a series of iterations it goes through to work out the kinks before the design settles and is “consistent” for production. LKChen seems interested in continuing to revisit and continuing to improve designs. The complaints that Bug had with his Roaring Dragon to me would not have been unusual on a sword from a few years ago, but is odd on an “established design” in 2023. On the whole the swords I fine excel in accuracy and quality compared to the price they are sold at. Some models are better than others, so if you are looking at specifics then recommendations can sometimes be made.

[@JustaBug]

Wow Matthew Jensen! Thanks for watching my video

[@gazza8234]

@@JustaBug JaB, you may need to get a Cricket Stump of Doom for sword testing 🙂

[@JustaBug]

@@gazza8234 haha I'm not made of money. Destructive sword testing is beyond my means

[@warrennass24]

Congratulations on the book mate, wish you success with it. Sorry to hear about the sword hope you find one that meets your needs for cutting.

[@Oppetsismiimsitsitc]

Can't wait to pick up the book, mate!

[@JustaBug]

Thanks! I hope it lives up to your expectations

[@gazza8234]

LK needs to put the boot into his staff re.quality control. I purchased a White Serpent from them last year and it was a mixed bag. The blade is great, an A+ and an A for the scabbard but the grip looks like it was done by the work experience kid on his first day.

[@JustaBug]

Sorry to hear that happened to you. It's appearing like lemons are quite frequent in this orchard

[@gazza8234]

@@JustaBug To be fair all companies have the occasional duds but decent QA should weed-out most of the duds. I agree with you that having the main cutty bit blunt is inexcusable. Having said that I may still buy an LK or LK/Balaur Arms sword in the future.

[@ColossalSwordFormAndTechnique]

Putting an edge on a sword isn’t really too hard. If the blade came super blunt: 1.) second cut file 2.) axe puck 3.) whetstone 4.) naniwa deburring stone 5.) leather strop

[@milliondollaboiibsb4927]

I wouldn't buy another from him sheesh they could have at minimum paid for shipping and took it in to be sharpened properly

[@JustaBug]

To be fair, I didnt push for anything further. I wasnt in the mood to argue further. But yeah, they could have given a better offer

[@DarkwarriorJ]

Unironically, taking it back and then sending it back out again might be equivalent to half the cost of the sword. UPS international shipping costs are obscene. That said, 10% discount for the next sword seems remarkably poor compared to the experience of some of their other customers in the past.

[@frankheninja1]

This is a big reason why I put my own edge on all my swords. I’ve had way too many swords marketed as “sharp” come in as blunt as my economy Castile broadsword.

[@dlatrexswords]

Congrats on the book! Looking forward to it. That’s a shame about the Jian. It’s always painful to see a great sword marred by small easy to address details. LKChen historically has had very good customer service when QC issues have come up, so a little odd to hear about the particulars this time.

[@9unslin9er]

I actually returned 2 Gale Wind Jians to them. One of them was so out os spec that the sword could not be resheathed into its scabbard. They sent me a replacement which had visible hammer marks on the blade, and within a month started to rust from the inside out. It was wild. I also bought a Snow Peak jian through Kult of Athena (who usually do a pretty robust quality inspection) which had horrible casting defects on its fittings, and it ended up returning it as well. I don't think I could buy another one. They aren't super expensive, but not cheap either.

[@junichiroyamashita]

The Gale Wind specifically?

[@9unslin9er]

@@junichiroyamashita The Gale Wind rusted.

[@alexxu3004]

I agree with the qc issue, I bought 8 of their swords all have some sort of defects but their blade are so good that I keep buying and fixing myself

[@outsideiskrrtinsideihurt699]

3:22 Is it just me or does the blade not look in line with the handle during this segment of the video? Edit: Book reveal! This is hype!

[@JustaBug]

I think it's just the lighting. The blades centred Edit: thanks! Hope it lives up to your expectations

[@connorjensen9699]

So does the door, I think the lense is just a bit fisheye

[@nevTk-oe9ud]

How bout Ryan swords ?

[@jakemcnamee9417]

I'm new to swords. Have recently bought one in have mixed feelings on. It seems mostly good but there are some small things that make me question the effort. Lile the makes stamp is very faded on one side. This is from the royal armories, Matt eastern and windless. The wakefield hanger. I don't want to give a bad review because I'm new to swords, but have some small disappointments with the for and finish. I didn't pay for the sharpening so it coming unshapened isn't my bother. Just a small dent in the cross gaurd and the faded makers mark. Besides that it seems like a beautiful sword and handles well, infind leather grips a bit slippery though. How do I know what are minor issues to be overlooked, and what are deal breakers. Because inside I don't ant to gove a bad review but I wonder about the effort went I see things like a half stamped malers mark

[@jakemcnamee9417]

Makers mark*

[@erichusayn]

I got their royal Arsenal Infantry Han Dao, (feom kultofathena, a US retailer) and the entire edge was dull. I was able to literally run it over my jugular. At the time they blamed it on Chinese regulations. Which is bs cuz I've gotten plenty of properly sharp swords from china. I was able to get a nice edge on her. But still. Inconsistent. And I have a feeling they may have gotten a bit full of themselves with the hype, and consequently, qc has slipped.

[@JustaBug]

It's a shame your sword came blunt too. You've done a great job sharpening it, it cuts nicely in your vids

[@erichusayn]

@Just a Bug thanks, as im sure yours will as well. Shame they can't come properly sharp to begin with. My Hanwei Shashka is what made me have to learn to sharpen. Bet that one will pull some nice noodle cuts once properly sharp.

[@bajasmancer]

Also that can't be an easy sword to sharpen, not gonna try that with a whetstone...

[@greggpennington966]

Try an " Accusharp " !

[@saretsarerrah6589]

I understand the blade behind half sharpened as being problematic yet starting it as a disappointment is too strongly of a negative connotation. I was expecting to hear about warps, loose parts, low quality materials etc. But an issue over sharpening, something you are going to have to do any way is crazy to call something a disappointment over.

[@JustaBug]

It's a disappointment to see quality control so lax that something like this makes it through. The sharpening itself is not a problem, its a disappointment to unbox a new sword with a completely unsharpened distal half and their response to rectify it being 10% off the next order. Though, following this incident they have tightened the quality control measures which I am glad to see

[@saretsarerrah6589]

@@JustaBug I believe we both see this generally as an overlooked "lemon" that somehow made way through quality control. But my stance remains the same. It's a readily easy to fix matter although time intensive. I just feel the title without context is a bit slanderous.

[@way2dumb]

" Jason Happy New Year and thank you for reaching out. One thing you might not be aware of is that the Chinese government will not allow swords to be imported back into China and your Roaring Dragon will be destroyed at the import custom. Therefore logistically it is not possible for us to have you send the sword back for servicing. If you are in China, we will be very happy to help reservice the blade. That is the reason why I ask whether you be able to sharpen the sword yourself or by a bladesmith in your area. If it is possible to get help locally, it will be the quickest way to resolve the issue and we will share the fair cost of the sharpening service. What I do not want, is to have the sword destroyed by the customs service in Shanghai which I think will be disrespectful to the sword. If this is not possible for you to sharpen the sword locally, please send the sword to Master Ken Wu and once the sword arrived, we will refund you in full plus the shipping."

[@way2dumb]

Lakeside Drive Joondalup, Western Australia

[@way2dumb]

Ken woo

[@way2dumb]

6027

[@greggpennington966]

Take a file to its edge. It shouldn't be that difficult to work a decent edge on steel that's already there.

[@PsyKotyK]

My nui wei dao was somewhat dissappointing as well. I am a sucker and have the silver swallow coming hope im not dissapointed . Alot of reviewers really praise lk chen i do own 2 and have a 3rd coming but some other swords I have from other makers are of much better quality.

[@kobet7341]

Is the metal the blade is made of chineseium or something? Also how do you only sharpen half a sword, not to mention the wrong end of it?

[@DarkwarriorJ]

I have the 'same' sword. I'm an amateur, however, so there's a lot I don't catch. In other reviews, and in my own experience, the metal of the blade is pretty rock solid (doesn't stay bent, holds an edge well), but my sharp sword was not as sharp as in their quality control testing. It wasn't a lemon like Just a Bug's, and I attributed the not-as-sharp experience to the damage of international shipment, but it's a thing to consider. For quality control, LK Chen's company does a 'single A4 sheet cut right through' test. Mine couldn't do that in my amateur hands (it's definitely not as sharp), though it penetrates comically well. My guess - Just a Bug got really, really unlucky with someone who completely lazied out on their sharpening, followed by the QA guys just going 'well, here's the sword, let's cut it here' and not cut-testing the blunt front of the sword when they cut the A4 sheet. QA is definitely their company's weakness from what I can tell. The QA on the sparring swords I ordered was... not great either. There were burrs on the plastic, and one of the swords didn't even have the guard's plastic formed in the correct shape. Not a dealbreaker for me, as all the other vital parameters were correct (balance, feels like a sword, etc) and it's the sort of thing we can file down ourselves when we can find the time for it, but... yeah. QA is a problem. My impression is that when LK Chen's swords are good, they're Albion good; but often... QA strikes. If you care about buying specifically Chinese swords though, there's no real competitor at the moment. If you care about getting a good scabbard as well as a good sword at this price, they're also the best as far as I can tell. If you care about neither though, then at similar prices, Windlass and even Cold Steel are apparently upping their game for European swords. Also, whilst LK Chen is a person's name, they're actually a small company overseen by LK AFAIK. Furthermore, their swords will vary up to 10% in all its listed stats because they're basically hand-made, compared to the machine precision of some of the other companies. This can lead to major lemons - ex; overweight Flying Phoenix with a much further out point of balance in the case of one person's sword; though it can also lead to unexpectedly good swords. My own Roaring Dragon has a closer point of balance due to a slightly longer handle, making it lighter in the hand and having a pivot point near the tip, for example.

[@JustaBug]

@kobet7341 the metal is fantastic. Its a T8/1060 pattern weld that is tempered absolutely beautifully. Flexes and comes to true nicely. Now for the second half, no idea how they stuffed it up that badly. @DarkwarriorJ this is my first order with LK Chen so I cant say it speaks for all their swords, but I dont see how they can miss a mistake this badly. Also there are other competitors to LK chen like art of fire and iron. They have great chinese swords, just not a very good website or customer support so if you want a decent sword and scabbard they are quite good to go to

[@DarkwarriorJ]

@@JustaBug I should look up Art of Fire and Iron, they definitely don't advertise quite as much! My first glance tells me that they're a lot more expensive and take even more time to manufacture than LK, but may be a fair amount higher quality. Especially on their fittings.

[@JustaBug]

Definitely a price bracket above LK but I'd agree, the quality does appear to be higher. Their website though has very little information and their customer service could use work so the exact details are sometimes a mystery till the sword arrives

[@way2dumb]

NO QUALITY CONTROL! they will send you crap because a lot of people will not try to get their money back through every channel.

[@frankheninja1]

I will 100% be picking up your book.

[@JustaBug]

Thanks! Hope you like it!