A Fools Errand; Power Creeping Design Mistakes

[@Betsy2Heavens]

This is what I get for wishing for Boros getting buffed on that stupid monkey’s paw…

[@LlywellynOBrien]

I wished for everything to just go through standard to end this "designed for" nightmare... I really should have been more precise with my wording.

[@tgworks5791]

Players wanted direct to modern sets. Wizards gave us modern horizons. What players actually wanted was old decks to gain playables. Players wanted jund, fish, UW control, affinity, etc to gain cards to revive tier 2-4 decks. Instead we got rotating modern and perm ban cycle.

[@chapeldweller]

This is exactly what Horizon sets should have been.

[@carlhannah1884]

They did enough blow to talk themselves into having standard rotate very slowly and modern change every year.

[@legendarydragoon1462]

Lol so backwards

[@XDezibellX]

Standard is played on digital. Someone wanting to play standard is gonna need to buy cards from 12+ sets now, so F2P is impossible. Modern had allowed people to not spend regularly, so they fixed that too. It's always money.

[@mccoyrj452]

We are relearning a lesson we learned literally decades ago. Block constructed is not fun in the long term. And Modern/Legacy have become damn near just Modern Horizons Block Constructed with a few cards added. If you removed all of the Modern Horizons cards from every deck only a handful of cards that are not lands would remain. That’s a problem.

[@t.yop9]

That's not a great analogy. Block constructed a forced limitation that remained temporarily. Modern power creep is a persistent problem that wouldn't have a solution. The problem is Modern is an ever growing format. Unless you stopped printing cards into it, it's always going to grow stale. And if you do print cards into it, it's going to risk getting out of hand like it is now.

[@atk9989]

​@@t.yop9modern is just supposed to be eternal standard. It gets new cards based on what is put into standard, the entire game every single format included was based on the balance of cards made for standard.

[@mutant9137]

​@@t.yop9but we have never had sets coming out to shallow %40 of the meta share. Cards never used to have to be THIS powercrept. Hasbros greed is destroying eternal formats

[@kerolokerokerolo]

So basically what you meant powercreep is bad for the game? Yeah, of course. Didn't need so many words 😂😂

[@SaltySparrow]

Well said.

[@adamklosterman101]

I wish a "Without Horizons, Modern" existed. What a mess...

[@cablefeed3738]

The one ring would still be there

[@dashkatae]

@@cablefeed3738 How about a Modern without any direct to modern sets allowed?

[@danthewafflelord3059]

It's called Pure Modern!

[@MisanthropicCurmudgeon]

People try to do it, but the bootlickers complain and don't participate

[@EffinChat]

We can call it Flat Earth Modern Because its Horizonless

[@garryame4008]

Wizards used to care about game stability and actively tried to avoid insane power creep. It would seem that the game designers no longer make the decisions anymore. Maro recently admitted that the recent changes to the number of packs in boxes disregarded gameplay.

[@altromonte15]

They made a billion dollar, and that means they make to make more every year or be considered a failure. Short term profit over everything

[@benjaminwright-rj9xc]

Wizards was bought by Hasboro, who has a history of buying game companies and trashing them. This is a toy manufacturer, they're going for ooh shiny and next quarters' profits. If MTG development was driven by a company wanting an excellent product the game today would look very different. Power creep isn't accidental it's planned unplanned obsolescence and a lack of play testing. Everytime people go nuts for the hot new card Hasboro wins. Everytime you must retool a deck because of a ban Hasboro wins. This isn't about you winning at Magic, it's all about Hasboro winning.

[@gwenyurick9663]

​@@benjaminwright-rj9xc Hasbro bought Magic in the fucking 90s. Almost none of us played in a world where Hasbro didn't own Magic.

[@alexandredesbiens-brassard9109]

​​@@benjaminwright-rj9xc Hasbro bought Wizards of the Coast in 1999.

[@AmbiguousGoop]

@@benjaminwright-rj9xcHasbro bought them back in 1999. They’ve always owned WotC. Why did it take them 20 years for Hasbro to start ruining the game is the better question. Hasbro left WotC alone for a long time, then around 2018-19. Hasbro started with their bs. You could even say that the BS started with the BFZ expeditions.

[@CasualKing21]

Anyone remember when Twin was 13%?

[@FlawlessRhythmGG]

And got permabanned until the end of time. 😔

[@redbelt1000]

And the only "good" counterspells were Remand Mana leak Spell pierce Spell snare How insane is that

[@legendarydragoon1462]

Crazy thing is standard literally has like 5 different splinter twin esk combos right now

[@nickcoupe2964]

Banning twin was the beginning of modern's decline.

[@shirosilverost2542]

I would not mind if the upcoming ban announcement actually unbanned twin. I think someone did a few deck comparisons/playtesting and found out that twin got a lot weaker as time passed (more 1-2 mana cards that can kill a exarch, back then it was restricted to bolt/path as the 1 mana removals, now we got push/rending volley/cut down/discharge/unholy heat/pitched marches/domain leyline binding). Look at the Felidar/Saheeli combo, which is similar (but yes weaker since Saheeli isnt flash speed) but doesn't see modern play

[@STVMcarbondragon]

I've largely given up on Modern at this point. The 3 decks I played, Tron, Infect, and 8-Rack have either lost all ability to compete against these powercrept cards or have become so warped by them that it would cost twice again what I've already spent to update them. Pioneer and Foundations-based Standard are the only competitive formats I have any interest in.

[@riotron1026]

You do realize that Tron decks are up there as for one of the more popular meta choices atm if you ignore RW/X energy decks, right? 8- rack has never been a truly serious contender in Modern and Infect should probably never be a top performing deck due to the mechanic being so broken. Tron did get new toys but it’s the first major upgrade the deck has gotten since what? baby Karn if you ignore TOR?

[@STVMcarbondragon]

@riotron1026 Yes I realize Tron is still plenty good, but it's barely the same deck. 20% of the maindeck is just MH3. I don't consider that "new toys". As for the others not being meta, I'm okay with that. 8-rack was never very good and Infect relied entirely on the meta being uninteractive but they could at least take matches occasionally. 8-rack now feels like I've sleeved up 56 Swamps and 4 Thoughtseize it's so outmatched and every deck is as fast as Infect.

[@riotron1026]

@@STVMcarbondragon Yeah, makes some sense. I mean imagine cards from the direct to modern set not being impactful and not making it into archetypes they were meant to support… The format even in its current state is surprisingly grindy. Sure you have some decks trying to kill as early as T3 but that was always a thing in modern. This isn’t something that came after the Horizons sets. Also Infect has been making some rare appearances and doing pretty well, though these showing are from some very dedicated and skilled infect players

[@STVMcarbondragon]

@riotron1026 that first part really reads like a "consume product" comment, I'm not gonna lie. The whole point of this video is that MH sets are ruining the thesis of Modern, which if you're changing a fifth of a deck with a single set, definitely makes it feel like a rotation by power creep.

[@riotron1026]

@ Not really. I mean when it comes to this game product will be consumed regardless. Yeah you can say that MH is the reason for power creep but I think I’m his a general thing with magic as a whole in like the past 5 + years. Sheoldred, Teferi, Oko, Uro, Fable, Leyline Binding, Leyline of The Guildpact, Baby Karn, Once upon a time. These are all cards from standard sets so if you think the horizons sets are the culprits for general power creep then you are mistaken, the complaints will continue with standard sets.

[@shirosilverost2542]

0:20 how telling is it about magic that I look forward to the ban announcements more than the set releases?

[@supertux2998]

Pure modern is the only thing we can hope for

[@phila1448]

I blew someone’s mind the summer at an SCG con when I said modern rotates faster than standard. (Modern Horizon sets are every two years)

[@Zaxophone32]

Wizards giving us prebuilt decks is killing commander for me as well. Commander used to be the creativity format for me, but wizards is hard at work giving every tribe a degenerate, best possible commander, and every mechanic a legendary that snaps even the most parasitic design choices in half

[@davidstar2686]

Well your playgroup dosent need to build like that.

[@sortasurvival5482]

I bought the green blue red plane chase deck. Took out the plane chase cards, took out all the landfall crap, used the backup commander and made a group hug tron deck. Was nice to have a manabase and some cards to start working out a new build. Is way more fun to play now.

[@shirosilverost2542]

I remember when my group used to look forward to the yearly commander decks. Now you get 20-30 commander decks a year and just floods the market

[@bazzam429]

I haven't bought a precon since 2022, but I've evolved to building my own jank. I still have fun, but yeah, these precons aren't that appealing

[@mightyhulk1483]

Play commander cube! It’s a ton of fun to draft with your pod and is a good way to use all of the old decks you don’t use anymore.

[@xZipkan]

I quit Modern when MH1 released, and I've never looked back.

[@Fireslingerpirate]

The best choice. I did as well. It was very clear that this was the inevitable conclusion of MH sets.

[@Malidala]

That's probably most people. That is around the time the average cost of a modern deck skyrocketed.

[@istovall2624]

Same, I had just collected the staples and then they come out with all new staples. My goyfs are worthless now.

[@xZipkan]

@@istovall2624 And goyf was downshifted to a token now too lol.

[@WhatWouldBojackDo]

you modern players make my nice mh3 commander cards too expensive

[@CthulhuBut2FeetTall]

Anecdotally I started watching this channel because you were my favorite hatebear pilot on KZbin. I love stax and you were really great at explaining your rational while giving color commentary. With the release of Fury and other hyper efficient cards the archetype was gimped severely and I fell out of modern ever since. Modern horizons enabled some decks at first, but killed the one I was there for.

[@PleasantKenobi]

I love to hear from the old viewership that came in with those videos. I hope I'm still making stuff you enjoy. :)

[@CthulhuBut2FeetTall]

@PleasantKenobi I'm still here for a reason!

[@hydra66]

next week's B&R will be interesting. Wizards will be very concious of the aftermath of the commander bans

[@12triproberts]

I'd argue Emrakul is exactly what a Mythic Rare in Modern Horizons should have been. It has insane potential once future cards are printed break it. Could have floated around in binders as a $2 Mythic from a premium set and then shot over $50 once the right deck organically arose to enable it.

[@uiron5755]

14:18 that sums it up really well. Modern Horizons hijacks the format for itself. Reminds me of yugioh powercreep.

[@SurlyDuff814]

So between WotC power creeping every format into kingdom come sans Pioneer (RIP) and the incoming glut of brand erosion affectionately labeled Universes Beyond, what is keeping the enfranchised players around?

[@altromonte15]

Gambling addiction

[@williamfagan3214]

Nostalgia

[@benjaminwright-rj9xc]

I have no problem with the general concept of universes beyond but give me stuff that actually makes sense. Give me Dragon Lance, Dune, Conan, John Carter of Mars. Heck, if well done I'll gladly play Alice in Wonderland and Through the Looking Glass, or based upon the OZ series. Give me good game play and Universes Beyond that are authentically places that people across the spectrum of players will be interested in playing. I'll gladly Drop The House on your witch and then incenerate your scarecrow and equipment my commander with Ruby Sleepers so I can tap it and return it to the command zone at any time.

[@gwenyurick9663]

Games still just as fun as it was a decade ago. Playing with your friends is still as fun as a decade ago.

[@khristian625]

The core of MTG is a very strong system. I’d go as far as to call it one of the best rule sets a game has ever had, and it’s been mostly iterated on and improved over the 30+ years it’s been around, from defined color pie identities to revised mulligans. Magic is a strong center. Unfortunately, the game pieces that use it are getting weaker at sustaining that center.

[@Zauzzie]

They could ban, RIng, Souls, frog, raptor, an Eldrazi land and clean some things up lol

[@TheDarkElder]

I still expect a MH4 set, just not for 2025. We started in 2019 with MH1 and had a 2-year window for MH2 then "MH2.5" aka LTR in 2023. We just had MH3 in 2024, I doubt they already push it out of favour after less than a year. More likely in 2026 around summer. For next year's summer special I expect either Pioneer Horizons or Commander Masters 2. That would fit their overly tight release schedule much more than MH4. So even with a ban of some (key) cards for RW Energy, Modern seems bad beyond hope for now.

[@laaren966]

I'm of the mind that you have to nuke everything until Liliana of the veil is playable again.

[@riotron1026]

Lili hardly sees play in standard and pioneer last time I checked… that should tell you something.

[@cherry9787]

Hard to believe Liliana isn't playable. Damn

[@riotron1026]

@@cherry9787 I’d argue Lili has always been borderline, has always been bad in aggressive metas.

[@cherry9787]

@@riotron1026 True. That's just the thing, with certain metas, certain decks are just unplayable. Just an inherent feature of MTG

[@kerolokerokerolo]

You can play with her in the deck. The problem is that you'll lose 😂😂

[@1_____________________]

Their whole marketing campaign for MH3 was "these cards are just straight up better than the ones you have, so you should buy them". Who could've seen this coming.

[@MindstabThrull]

Tangent: Suddenly I want Vince to play some Pauper on here and see what happens. One thing I used to really enjoy about Modern - and still like about Magic in general (and currently go to Commander for this) - is that if you can come up with an idea, you can build it. I just finished building a paper green-style monoblue ramp deck for EDH, for example, and it's kinda decent. And I had a few fun deck ideas for Modern that I really wanted to build, like Jaya's Servant (Jaya Ballard, Task Mage plus Painter's Servant), but the power of the stuff in the various Modern Horizons sets just meant that brewing would typically degrade from "not good" to "unplayable". Even in Standard with M20 around I played monoblack reanimator with Rotting Regisaur and Davriel as discard outlets, and while it wasn't good enough to win FNM, it wasn't actually *bad*. Wizards of the Coast, throw us a bone here! Make fun decks actually ok again!

[@zakskiver]

The horizon sets ruined modern.

[@melkiah]

If they would have stayed in the realm of MH 1 power wise instead of the giant leap we had from 1 to 2 but by the time we got 2 the reprints they had from 1 as a chase were almost DoA due to creep. I'm curious if they should restrict the ring and see if it stays as a staple at 1 copy in decks.

[@zakskiver]

@ I didn’t think mh1 was that bad besides hogaak. Like if he wasn’t a card, it would’ve been fine. Just sucks that modern is “modern” anymore. I want to play my BOOMER jund deck again!🤣. I feel like it’ll just get banned. Limited it will still be bad, my experience of playing yugioh where they can limit ban cards, it’s still bad.

[@melkiah]

@@zakskiver Agreed! MH 1 felt like a way to give modern alt versions of limited staples Hogaak is the glaring Oopsie Doodles from MH1 but anything moderately involving dredge or storm is a risk. And I feel you on the Boomer vibe I've made various attempts to dip back into Magic and every time I look at my boxes of cards to think about building anything I go yup 98% of those have been power crept out and I don't want to buy a whole new deck... guess it's time to get into cubes lol

[@zakskiver]

@@melkiah yeah, it’s such a sad reality to see where modern has gone which sucks. I actually think the once powerful cards that made modern awesome, wouldn’t even be that good in pioneer even. Like would jace be good? Or snapcaster mage? Tarmogoyf? It’s just sad to see power creep so much in my favorite format.

[@melkiah]

@@zakskiver yup aside from crafting our own draft cubes the non commander oriented casual player exists in a very odd space in the MTG world

[@legendarydragoon1462]

I love how you mentioned modern was a brewers paradise before MH sets ruined it. This is a severely underrated aspect of the damage done by these sets. Modern was soo wide open I had so much fun playing all sorts of tier 2 decks. For ex. 1. Demigod Fuana Shaman 2. Zur arcane and spirits 3. Skred red 4. Mono white hate bears 5. Gifts ungiven Lastly my favorite pet deck naya lightsaber with bloodbraids and baneslayers Most of these decks now couldnt even beat standard decks... So sad

[@shirosilverost2542]

I was actually thinking about this earlier in the week. I can't remember the last time I got recommended a "much abrew about nothing" from Goldfish for modern (actually had to check, looks like they released 2-3 in the last couple months).

[@dashvash5440]

YES! Energy seemed like such a freaking OP Precon, drives me crazy.

[@japplek]

Gotta say, I am a lot happier with the state of mtg now I have a good quality printer. Wotc/hasbro really shat the bed on this. I went from spending an embarrassing amount of money on cardboard each year to zero in the last, largely because I became disillusioned with the idea that I was building a collection with any future to it.

[@kylewidmar3177]

"Oldern" is my dream name for a format which does not have "Straight to Modern" sets ~or~ UB now.

[@williamsimkulet7832]

13:24 Oh, yes, how could anyone have known that a 4/5 for 4 mana with two free triggers and Deathtouch so it trades with anything would be format warping? What next, is my 11/2 for 1G with trample and "When this creature enters, gain 2 life for each creature your opponent controls." format warping? How about my 2/34 for 2U with Ward 3 and "Whenever you counter a spell, do a Nadu." Fair and balanced magic, obv., nothing could go wrong. We've had a quarter decade of MTG design, I think it's pretty clear by this point WOTC knows what the baseline of a fair magic card is. Sure, sometimes they intentionally try to cross the line and it doesn't see play - I'm looking at you Flample 3BB 6/6 with upside @ (M) that no one played; but the problem is that they're trying to cross the line (at R or M), rather than come to the line or draw a parallel line.

[@michaelmarmash9795]

I think one of the challenges with "fair" magic cards is that they don't bring the same level of player excitement that cards that push the envelope do. You are correct that Wizards definitely knows how to design "fair" cards, and the proof of that is draft, where set after set we get the same archetypal cards printed that make the format work. The thing is, not everyone enjoys draft, and I think that's in part because not everyone wants to play with "fair" cards. I can only cast colossal dreadmaw so many times before it gets old, but cards that feel powerful make the player want to come back and play with them again. It feels good to do something that's 'broken', and I think some of the best designs in magic that see constructed play are cards that are definitely designed to push the envelope. Take Unholy Annex in standard for example. Unholy Annex is a card that you read and you just go "wtf how did they think that was ok", yet it has led to interesting decks and strategies in standard and pioneer, and creates really unique game states and decisions. If Unholy Annex was more "fair", I can say for sure that the decks that played it would not be as fun. I agree a lot with the opinions in this video, that intentionally trying to "break" the format is really unhealthy, but I also do appreciate trying to push the envelope and explore this interesting design space. They've definitely gone too far with the horizons sets, but I'd rather play with exciting, flashy, "broken" cards than grizzly bears, and I think most players agree. Obviously with this kind of philosophy you have to be willing to make mistakes and correct them, and I think the fixation of ban announcements has really been behind a lot of the frustration as cards stay legal for far longer than they should. But I think having cards be too powerful imo is always better for the game than having cards be too weak, and I'd hate to see Wizards take an approach where they're too scared to print cards that go beyond "fair".

[@Shawn-f3x]

I agree with the sentiment, but it’s hard not to be bitter when pushed cards dominate, and cost an arm and a leg because EV has pretty much never been lower. OK, Fallen Empires, but still. Opening a Collector’s Pack of Foundations feels like outright being stolen from. Why? I have been adjacent to the opening of 21 such packs, and *sixteen* of said packs had 3 copies of something undesirable, and not even one of the packs that triple up like that paid off. I don’t feel any, “Wow! That’s so cool!” when one of the guys at the LGS drops a Bloodthirsty Conqueror on T3, because my mind goes right to, “Must be nice to be able to drop 400$ going nuts on pulls, or making one big Singles order.” I wouldn’t care, but my locale has a bunch of rabidly Anti-Proxy EDH players, and bunches more “Must own 1 to Proxy” types. And since there are no games below 8.5-9 at the LGS, you either play your optimized mana bases and best in slots, or you get your teeth kicked in. Not winning is one thing. Being the sad always-out-first, or always-out-simultaneous first-and-second, another. I started bootlegging cards over 19$ for my own play purposes, but that apparently makes me the Son of Evil, despite my buying more singles at the LGS than 90% of the guys/gals, all my sleeves, and I never bring snacks and drinks in like the others.

[@MrPiotrV]

@@Shawn-f3x the ev is low because no one plays standard legal sets because they can't compete because mh is so overpowered. if modern wasn't all about mh, then a lot of "normal" cards would see play, driving the prices of those sets up.

[@Shawn-f3x]

@@MrPiotrV You don’t see a more relevant correlation between the creation of Mythic Rares and (nearly) all subsequent chase cards being printed at Mythic to sidestep the Guaranteed Rare Per Pack Promise, and singles prices exploding? I promise you, prior to Mythics, singles NEVER rocketed upward in price while still in print. Even when a card became the lynchpin of a newly developed Type II/Standard deck, you might see a +8-12$ jump, but nothing like what happens today. Foundations is Standard Legal, and it’s *exactly* as bad as a MH set, runaway Mythic Chase price-wise. 40$+ Scythecat Cub, 38$ Bloodthirsty Conqueror etc etc.

[@MrPiotrV]

@@Shawn-f3x you’re absolutely wrong. cards have always been expensive, long before mythic rares even existed. and even after their creation, many of the more expensive cards have been “normal” rares, not mythics. to give two quick examples, scalding tarn used to be around 50 bucks for many, many years. goyf (before mythics) was around/above 100 bucks for a decade probably

[@mtgcatfish5993]

Thank you for making a video about modern where 99% of the conversation doesn't just shit on the Ring. Pre MH3 modern was in a really good place.

[@telgore2561]

I wish modern was something that i could afford to want to play

[@Magnet977]

At this point, I just want wizards to pick a non-commander format and let everyone know which format it is so we know which format to avoid. Then they can spend all their time and effort shitting up that format and let everyone else enjoy formats that actually function...Partially by banning the problem cards that inevitably arise. Its crazy that WotC is so bad at design now that we have to spend more effort trying to contain the damage of their design decisions rather than looking at the unique ways the cards can be used in other formats. Its a complete perversion of what actual design should be.

[@t.z2359]

I believe there’s a temptation to nerf the energy mechanic, when I don’t think that’s the reason Boros is so powerful. I reckon what makes the deck so powerful is it has so many 1 and two drop creatures who if unanswered will take over the game. Synergy definitely dose push the deck, but unless you draw all the removal, the Boros player will just steam roll you. Even if you do remove all thir threats, the can just play Phlage, and rebound.

[@MrPiotrV]

true, and another problem is that almost all of their cards are, at least, a 2 for 1 so there is no way to interact favourably, even if you kill them all before they take over the game.

[@sawyermifsud852]

The mistake was designing Modern Horizons as a 'full set' with its own archetypes and mechanical synergies. it should have been a much more surgical affair about printing cards that work with existing and past modern archetypes with a much smaller amount of cards than a normal set to prevent flood. There really shouldn't have ever been more than two cards in a MH set that synergize with each other. One or two decks mainly built out of MH cards is cool. But when that becomes the norm, then it kills the main draw of Modern.

[@TheMattmatic]

Yeah, I think the new Eldrazis, Warren Soultrader, Wight of the Reliquary, or MH2 cards like Tide Shaper and Svyelun are great. But the best cards are too pushed and bans are too rare and infrequent. If this is the way design is they need to ban more actively - and unban, too.

[@RadicalPrion]

I liked the video because of the semicolon in the title; it's my favourite punctuation mark!

[@sirvaniss]

Yeah, but it's not used right, unfortunately.

[@tomcadden8054]

Well its certainly been a good way to get people into standard. Its almost as if 18 months ago we had everyone from pro's to youtubers asking the question "How do we get people back into standard?" and this just happened to happen......

[@mooredaxon]

The design choices made make much more sense if you understand the end goal: extracting all wealth from the magic IP. Sales started to go down, and so WotC/Hasbro decided to start inflating demand with high power cards to get more profits in the short term, forgoing any longevity. This is also why half of the sets going forward will be Universes Beyond: they saw the sales of LotR UB and wanted to replicate that, not thinking if it was the Universes Beyond that caused that jump in demand, or if it was the million dollar lottery attached to the set, or of it was the fact that such a format warping card as the One Ring exists. And that is why the One Ring will never get a ban, or even a restriction. To do so, would be to admit that any wealth the Magic IP has is being surgically extracted. And honestly, i think its too late to fix it. Magic will die a slow, painful, cringy death as it becomes a mutilated shell of itself. Thanks corporate greed.

[@Snow_Fire_Flame]

Where are you getting that sales are starting to go down? Hasbro's financial statements have been that MTG has never been doing better, and there's not really much reason to doubt them given that they're open about the rest of their portfolio's troubles.

[@richardadams7667]

I love the idea that Vintage and Legacy are just "Design Mistakes" the format haha

[@graefx]

WotC is trying to power creep and optimize the fun out of the game for me. I remember MaRo talking about how cards are meant to ask questions of the players, often without the designers knowing the answer, and to present players with a long list of options for them to figure out whats best for their goals. These cards dont do any of that, what questions are any of these asking besides slam them all in a deck together. A friend once said he thought that was great design because it makes it easier to put together a deck and get going. My repsonse was thats a great starting point but it shouldnt be the end point. Its not me trying to figure out how and what I wanna improve and see what trade offs to make to have my gameplan happen, its about assembling the precon thats been scattered through packs. Just make this a LCG then.

[@DaClaptain]

Was just talking about this stuff at my local shop the other day. Rather then just make fun new cards. Theyd rather power creep all the older cards out of being viable. So you have to keep up with the new stuff.

[@BeCurieUs]

I still play modern with my local friends, but we play modern like most people play commander and no-one tries to build "I just win" decks and tries to build on a theme for a deck. It works as a casual thing but I understand the doesn't help for actual format.

[@Medic8291]

You crack me up! Love your videos! ❤❤❤

[@g.n.s.]

Paper Modern, whatever it is, will always be my favorite because of exactly what you said: the potential.

[@samuelhain2160]

This is a tangent to your point here, not a rebuttal, but it is something that I think more people should be aware of in a more general sense, and seeing these lists always makes me think about this. "most played cards in format" has always bugged me. Whenever a deck does better than others all of it's cards become higher on the list. It would be nice to have these lists be weighted against the uniqueness of the decks that play them. If 95% of red decks play lightning bolt, but only 5% of decks are red, of course it won't show up. That doesn't make it less good of a card. Weighted for uniqueness it'd almost certainly be a "most played" card. People often look up these lists to get feeling for what cards are staples, or what cards are very good in a format, but what they usually see is out of context pieces of one or two decks that dominate the format, and if that's what they are after they are better off looking up a metagame report and some primers of the top decks. Tangent over, thank you for coming to my TEDTalk.

[@skell_jams]

I havent even watched this video nor have I watched a PK video in about a year. all I have to say is I'm completely on board with the title and the thumbnail and I believe in Vince

[@maverickeugene3621]

I don't play modern..(900$ a deck😢) but I love Bros commentary. I been laughing for half the video

[@Slightly.Lost.]

I think the only reason why we haven't heard anything about MH4 is because UB is taking up three releases a year. If they drop a set for a new MH release, it has to be one of the in-universe sets. People already complain that Magic isn't Magic anymore. If we only got one or two new story set in a year, people would lose their fucking minds.

[@Itachi45481]

I’m glade I just went to pioneer since my collections being all in the format except innistrahd block because I was tempted to build a modern deck but now well

[@izaiahsundquist6877]

Pauper is my favorite non-rotating format. It's like Legacy but plays slower and is more affordable. Plus it's not run by WotC, so there's less of a fear of degenerate cards staying in the format to sell packs.

[@dr_tal]

The mention of led hurts my soul. Was going to pick up a set of them for my dredge deck when they were 80 a pop now they are 500 a pop. Legacy elves would be cheaper since it uses only 1 Gaia

[@joshuaginn792]

Modern’s rotation cycle is this: a modern set releases, and all the current decks rotate down a tier.

[@scott898586]

Welcome to YuGiOh. That is what FIRE design has done to MTG. Simplest way to put it. Hate to say it, but it only gets worse from here.

[@MrDrakDevel]

my favourite deck will always be OG death shadow, not because it was strong, but because someone had to sit down and figure it out. it took effort and knowledge of the game to put it together

[@Nightwalker86]

I've been referring to all of the sets collectively as "shareholder horizons". I hope it sticks.

[@traemaxwell]

I started playing Magic about 1998-1999 and I remember some pretty big power creep and the nerf bat that came with the Prophecy expansion(one of the best cards to come out of that block was Rystic Study.) I just got back into Magic about 2 years ago and have really noticed how insane the power creep is. Does WotC have a Q/A team that playtests this shit?! Been playing Brawl on Arena and have really noticed in the last year or so just how crazy some of these cards truly have become. Its really sad if I'm being honest.

[@RafitoOoO]

Pioneer is the new Modern honestly. It's stable, it only gets cards from standard legal sets, there's a big spread in the metagame and a lot of different strategies can work. After they banned Sorin and Amelia the format feels so good to play, and now with Masters on Arena Explorer is almost 1 to 1 with competitive Pioneer.

[@shirosilverost2542]

Pioneer is getting there, they just need to show a little love to the non red/black decks. Still waiting for the old school Jeskai control to be viable (favorite MtG WC was the 2013 one with Shahar)

[@bobconway5958]

I believe the biggest problem with design is lack of playtesting. They talk about playtesting sets, but it is abundantly clear that the playtesting they perform is significantly lacking. This is no longer the 90's where they had much more time to work on sets . they need to get out of the 90's mind set and use the tools that are readily available. Modern needs counter programing, with the Moxen getting out of control, what did they do, created Shatterstorm in Antiquities. It certainly did not fix the problem completely but was an effort to control the beasts

[@noahz42]

I play lurrus as my commander and its a blast there, only place I can afford to play it in

[@66lawngnome]

I liked extended existing along side modern it was short but made things interesting. But also complicated for logistics

[@mrskittles6486]

When you play Ruby storm because it's good vs the energy decks and you absolutely hate it. That's modern at the moment

[@xboxgamer474246]

In regards to Minsc and Boo, I think there’s a long conversation to be had about commander’s fundamentally untenable 40 life design and how Minsc, Pyrogoyf & Broadside Bombadiers have to be extremely lethal threats to make aggro worth playing in that format.

[@pawelekqwert]

Coming soon "horizons beyond Universe ™" featuring new legendary mono black sponge bob

[@Zarbon000]

What was your thoughts on Modern Horizons when they announced it?

[@chazzanschutz6096]

Orims chant is #12 most played? Has anyone posted a decent decklist? (I miss playing Scepter Chant)

[@khub5660]

I would suggest adding a Universes Remastered set to your bingo card

[@MikeMtgFightClub]

Love your videos so much!

[@PleasantKenobi]

Thank you so much!!

[@Vaasth]

yup, that is true, I played azorius control in modern forever and revently went to LGS to try it and I never stood a chance, coudn't do anything in the format

[@UnreasonableOpinions]

A format designed to be an eternal format that cuts off the reserve list and therefore the most challenging cards to obtain is intended to give you a security of collection and a chance to preserve decks long-term, as you are in Legacy/Vintage, with deck costs in just hundreds instead of thousands. Turning this into 'Rotating format but you get to keep your fetches' defies every principle it was designed to feature.

[@dd7896]

My prediction is that Galvanic Discharge is gonna get banned. Maybe Static Prison as well. My main prediction being that The One Ring is not gonna get banned.

[@nicklarocco4178]

I wish WotC would use the restricted list more. Like a lot of these cards wouldn't be so bad if you could only have 1 in your deck. Even the one ring wouldn't be quite as disgusting if you could only have it as a 1 of.

[@archon458]

The moment MH became about printing new staples and not buffing low tier decks was the moment it failed for me. I want modern to be the place where I can play my favourite strategies, but I'm limited by what Wotc has forced on the format instead.

[@ryanchristenson1059]

Magic makes so many cards that are intentionally bad, I think if they just printed cards that weren’t intentionally bad, every card ends up possibly having synergy that will make it strong at one point. 99% of the time it will just not be the case, but it’s so much more sustainable

[@274pacific]

Wizards couldn't abide players being happy with sleeving-up their old cards in tournaments, so they made "eternal" formats into MH Block Constructed.

[@dev-drane]

Actually no bans pioneer sounds super fun

[@dev-drane]

More specifically I'd like fetchland pioneer

[@Lloyd2VD]

I just recently started playing modern :D :D Or as I call it MH3 Extended :D I played at the Eternal Weekend and in 12 Mathces I only faced Energy once ^^

[@LegitimateComenter4Yesme-hg4dg]

I would like if wizards made paper historic a format (aside from the alchemy cards). I personally love the format.

[@graefx]

Something that weighs on me is if the goal is the "legacyfication" of modern. Make modern a format where the majority of cards they can reprint are legal. Legacy without the RL. And all this is just growing pains until they finally pull the trigger on whatever that looks like as Pioneer takes over what modern was

[@shiftyjedi3417]

The problem with making staples cheap is that you need to come up with new chase cards that everyone demands and wants reprinted in $300 boxes.

[@PleasantKenobi]

Part of my central argument around the "why" for Horizons happening.

[@rayzoid]

At 5:24 you say "Modern Horizons 1 & 2", but I think you meant Modern *Masters*?

[@stevenlong959]

All that, and he never had to mention Eldrazi Winter

[@davidwales9657]

I suspect since UB is in Standard, they may have stopped with direct-to-modern sets

[@PleasantKenobi]

This is a safe assumption, but would love to have confirmation from Wizards.

[@richardharrison4762]

South Coast? Hey shout out from Yorkshire!

[@skipg77]

Possible crazy idea for a "fixed modern": any direct-to-modern sets are not legal. Only sets that have been in standard from 8th edition onward. No Modern Horizons I/II/III , no Lord of the Rings, no Modern Masters, no nothing. Standard-legal sets only. A very different format, and one that's much more wide open I think.

[@dethem]

I kinda want a format that has all gone through standard and is universe within

[@dracish123456789]

Current standard is going to be larger set wise and mechanically then any previous extended format

[@philbuttler3427]

Yeah, idk how someone could look at Sheoldred and see shes broken, so many moving parts to understand the complexities of card design that could indicate a 4/5 for four with deathtouch and a broken ability thats a win con by itself would be good.

[@gwenyurick9663]

Do you not remember when everyone was calling the card unplayable during spoiler season because it has zero board impact? It's easy to be a smug ass with hindsight but don't act like people weren't betting on her being a bad card from day one

[@Alecations]

I feel like you're the only one addressing this. People act like this company is making "mistakes." The old cards were "mistakes" for being too strong, now they make stronger versions. Like hm I wonder what would happen.

[@OnePointSafety]

Probably mispoke at 5:17 I think you meant Modern Masters 1/2

[@lumensmith2001]

I don't think it's fair to group bombardment into this group because I think it would've eventually ended up in modern. The issue, in my opinion, is more to do with the fact it's really difficult to print into standard because red aggro is really easy to break. Also, holy fuck lightning bolt is still holding on lol

[@benistoneman9737]

You forgot they did it on arena too. Made awesome timeless and historic formats. Then they added dumb broken arena cards and the. Just the broken modern horizon cards to just destroy a super fun meta game. I am super stoked they are adding the pioneer cards but they’ll probably mess that up by adding arena cards or something, because got forbid you just play with normal magic cards

[@hankman11]

I have 3 pre2020 tier 1 modern decks. I haven’t played a single game of modern since modern horizons1 came out.

[@colinkyle57]

shout out for all us pauper players out there!

[@irou95]

Pioneer has been so good after sorin ban and amalia as well.

[@DocCube]

The issue is that these cards don't have enough counters to them. Energy wouldn't be an issue if they added more ways to remove them.

[@danielgraves13]

i find it silly they decided to release the gates in the pioneer set on arena, but they just got printed in foundations. make that make sense.

[@TrackpickGaming]

It's for limited

[@corey6597]

Horizens as an idea originally that was supposed to breath life into old archetypes would have been awesome, instead we get block constructed rotation. Also reprinting older cards that don't see play in legacy but are modern power level is very nice, Titania, Counterspell, even Goblin Bombardment are super nice to have, but this "designed for" stuff needs to stop.

[@Malidala]

Wizards is going to make Pioneer Horizons after everyone gives up on Modern.

[@MutantBamHammer]

Yeah, there hasn't been a whisper yet of modern horizons 4, because they Just. Fucking. Released. 3. There likely won't be talk of that for another year or two. We weren't talking about 3 after 2 released. We were talking about 2.

[@doomexe]

I never really liked non-rotating formats. I started in elementary school with 6th edition/Starter '99 and I've taken a few breaks throughout the years and at one point sold my entire collection to pay for a portion of my first car. I really, really miss the old standard: Two blocks and the most recent core set. I don't like the current standard since it's more or less New Extended, so all I play are Commander and Prereleases, since draft seems to be dying too. The lack of a constructed format that suits me and Universes Beyond being standard legal and the future of Magic I'm wondering if I should find a different card game or just not have a TCG hobby anymore.

[@adoo765]

Have a great 2025 man!