A guide to countering warping for terrain builders

[@dallan7736]

The Warp has always been the Imperium's greatest enemy. And mine. Great video!

[@TheTerrainTutor]

Thanks mate

[@Getz-Da-Chompy]

Someone very kindly linked this on reddit, after I had complained about everyone recommending PVA for sealing, but never mentions the possibility of warping! Thank you so much for these tips, it may well have just saved 3 pieces I had spent weeks working on! Really appreciate it

[@nyarlathotep3334]

Why does this not have more upvotes...and why have I not seen this before? This is one of the best descriptions of how/why warping occurs. I learned a lot that will improve my terrain.

[@Artmesa]

Plaster doesn't shrink as well. So I would imagine the plaster+paper fiber+PVA combo would be better than just PVA.

[@terrainaholic]

This is the BEST video I've ever seen explaining the problem and giving simple straight forward techniques to combat it BRAVO Buddy!!!!! You are a GENIUS!!!!!!

[@TheTerrainTutor]

+terrainaholic You've gotta fight the warp bud ;-D

[@aerendil9143]

Excellent and well explained Mel! Technical in nature but still described in terms even a laymen can understand!

[@coryway6951]

Fantastic video. A must watch for terrain builders!

[@bouncingbeebles]

Thanks for sharing your knowledge. Proper job!

[@WiltrichsMiniatureArt]

I've been a big fan of your videos for a long time now. I tried making a test piece with MDF and Das clay on a test piece a while back and got the dreaded warping, so bad I could spin it. So this is a great video! I've taken the plunge this evening and started another test piece using 6mm ply this time and taken on board your tips in this video. I'm also using your videos to have a go at making an old school flocked gaming board like in the old White Dwarf battle reports, ready to play some 9th Edition 40K.... I've been thinking about it for about 28yrs so I think it's about time I finally give it a go. Keep up the great work!

[@tonyharwood8408]

One of the best tutorials I've seen. Thank you for the info. Tony

[@TheTerrainTutor]

+Tony Harwood Glad it helped bud!

[@UFWHOA]

This is an absolutely excellent informative video that explains the issue of warping and offers practical solutions without dragging on about opinionated nonsense and storytelling. Excellent presentation and thank you so much for this!

[@antiquariancrafts2454]

Warping, the bane of my life. Great to have a video that addresses it. Good work, dude!

[@TheTerrainTutor]

+Stay Dread Glad it helped mate

[@jimworthington449]

Fantastic video Mel. Greatly appreciate the in depth explanation of how warping can occur. But the drawings stole the show!

[@TheTerrainTutor]

+Jim Worthington LOL, Cheers buddy :-D

[@heatherschulz1458]

That was really, really informative!

[@bibbly1234]

With the whiteboard and the t-shirt I felt like I was back in school again! But this is one lesson I don't mind attending! Some good tips in here mate, nice to have an in depth video about this. oh, and girth is circumference :)

[@TheTerrainTutor]

+bibbly1234 Felt a bit like that for me too :-)

[@billd.iniowa2263]

Thanx Mel, you just confirmed everything I was thinking about warping. Nice to know I had it essentially right. I posted another option for de-warpping on the Terrainiacs Page: You can slit the foam to relieve the stresses. Or open up the slits with a butterknife and pour PVA into them. When the PVA dries it pulls the sides of the slits together. You can do the opposite by inserting plastic card shims into the slits. It spreads them apart. This works good to counter bowing. Then flock over the slits to cover them up. Cheers.

[@TheTerrainTutor]

+Bill D. in Iowa That's some advanced anti warping bud

[@trentonmaloney3280]

this was very helpful mel, thank you.in order to keep down the weight of pieces, i thought of using this corflute plastic dmg is using because the plastic wont warp from pva.

[@TheTerrainTutor]

+trenton maloney Yeah, that'll work, it's essentially the step up from plasticard mate

[@dramaticrodent541]

Great video. I had become very discouraged when everything I made turned out warped. I knew I was doing something wrong but not sure what. Thanks to you I now know I was using way too much glue. I am looking forward to trying to make terrain again.

[@TheTerrainTutor]

+Daniel Glass Awesome, glad it helped mate

[@MrDavil43]

Enthusiastic and knowledgeable. So useful, thanks.

[@BuggSmasher]

Genius ! Should have realised this sooner after having studies statics, but it's all hidden in the brush strokes and application !

[@aerendil9143]

I use a lot of inexpensive Foamcore poster boards for my terrain bases and hills etc., and I found I can completely eliminate warping by cutting out a section of the Foamcore board removing the paper layer and inserting a thin strip of hardwood I cut from garden stakes the wife uses for her tomatoes, lol. It works really well, and I secure it in place with a little wood glue making sure it lies flush with the base.

[@kiblams]

Great stuff, warping is the reason I love styrene for terrain, even stuff that I controlled the warping on during construction; still ended up warped after a year or so during storage.

[@TheTerrainTutor]

+kiblams I'm with you on the plasticard. I'm guessing if it's warping over time, you do paint the bottoms of your mdf bases mate?

[@kiblams]

I don't think so, could it be damp in the air you think?

[@TheTerrainTutor]

***** Yeah mate, you need to seal your pieces ;-)

[@IDICBeer]

Fantastic vid, some very good info there, thanks for that Mel :D

[@TheTerrainTutor]

+IDICBeer Glad it helped bud

[@braggminiaturesAnthonyBragg]

I am glad to say that I finally conquered the warp factor about 18 months ago and it is of great satisfaction when you achieve flat boards on a regular basis.So my advise to everyone out there is to not give up but to understand the basics of mels methods, and adapt as required to your individual circumstances as flat boards are achievable .My technique is different to mels but it does involve the understanding of the same principles .

[@TheTerrainTutor]

+2009braggminiatures Anthony Bragg That's because you use the hobby equivalent of adamantium to cover your stuff! ;-D

[@braggminiaturesAnthonyBragg]

LMAO

[@VictorQues]

Great tutorial mate, it is very informative.

[@TheTerrainTutor]

+Victor Ques (Neojarlaxe) Cheers bud

[@anthonybarca2896]

Great info here. Thanks for doing this.

[@TheTerrainTutor]

+Anthony Barca Glad it helped bud

[@GeneralKetchup57]

Thank You! Very helpful! Unfortunately, I live & breath cardboard. I started using duct tape on bottom prior to spray painting. This helps a lot. The spray paint helps seal the cardboard before putting on pva glue & paints. I found that it warps more without the spray paint. So I try not to base paint my cardboard without spraying it with the cheap $1 Walmart (Home Depot is better) spray paints.

[@TheTerrainTutor]

+General Ketchups D&D Crafting Videos Give it a coating of acrylic calking mate, that should really help if you have to use cardboard :-)

[@squallgoku777]

Thanks Mel, great video! What did you use to teach, out of curiosity?

[@nicolaseisbar3232]

You should find a publisher and put all this knowledge into a book with nice pictures!

[@TheTerrainTutor]

Maybe one day

[@lego1168]

How do you not have issues with warping anymore? do you just apply the right amount of glue to have it not warp?

[@gmangaz2007]

draw square in centre of cardboard and outside it put books down for pressure and work on the cardboard. when fin cut it out

[@TheTerrainTutor]

+gmangaz2007 I can see that working mate but I'd rather just stick with MDF lol

[@boobros1]

Very useful as ever. Thanks

[@TheTerrainTutor]

+Matthew Boothroyd No worries bud

[@gazgul]

So i had a though after watchin this. Say you have two mdf boards a 12mm and a 5mm for example. If you fix the boards together by screws or staple etc and only applied pva on the 5mm board them the boards should not warp as there is alot of resistance from underneath holding it down. Interested to hear responses or results

[@TheTerrainTutor]

Yep, bracing during the build works well mate

[@donblack1571]

Thank you for the vid bro

[@TheTerrainTutor]

No problem 👍

[@billd.iniowa2263]

QUESTION: Is there one side of the extruded foam thats better to put face-up than the other? The printed side or the blank side? Which should be the top surface of the hills and which works better for the underside?

[@TheTerrainTutor]

+Bill D. in Iowa Don't know, polystyrene in the UK isn't printed on mate

[@graemecollin]

What about viscosity? How does the runniness of the PVA affect warping? The more it's watered down, the more water there is to evapourate as the glue dries. Does this cause more or less warping? Or does it not really matter?

[@TheTerrainTutor]

+Graeme Collin It's more about how much glue over how much surface area mate

[@DerMartexus]

Everything I wanted to know about warp technology! ;)

[@TheTerrainTutor]

+DerMartexus I feel like that Zethrin bloke from Star Trek :-D

[@DerMartexus]

Almost the same. ;)

[@mandasity]

when you say filler do you mean like spackling paste?

[@francisfogarty3942]

Hi guys, Would the brushstroke affect in any way the direction of the creep force? (I know it's in all directions, but i'm guessing that a a thicker stripe of glue would pull more lengthwise than it does to the sides). For some reason I like making "lines" of PVA rather than blobs to stick the polystyrene to the base, would it make sense to lay them "across" rather than "along"?

[@TheTerrainTutor]

+Francis Fogarty If you're going for lines, the shorter the better, so I'd say go across mate

[@Yosser70]

All makes sense mate, but still have a question! lol If I put filler/spackle all over a large board to use as a base like in one of your other videos, would using pva in patches on top of that to flock it, still cause it to warp?

[@TheTerrainTutor]

+Dave Hughes highly unlikely if it's patches mate

[@davidmartin1793]

interesting as always Mel. Have you tried using cans of surface primer to seal MDF to reduce warping from PVA glue?

[@TheTerrainTutor]

+David Martin No mate, it's always seemed as an extra layer in the process that's not really needed.

[@davidmartin1793]

I tried it with some cardboard hills I made and it worked pretty well.

[@TheTerrainTutor]

David Martin Nice mate

[@djjaycanofficial4724]

Isnt the main problem not the fluids in the Glues ? Me thinks if you use Materials as Base that absorb some wetness and then dry as the fluids dry out it causes the warping ????? And if so i guess it would make sense to give it a layer of Mod Podge before using glues ?

[@TheTerrainTutor]

No, mod podge will cause warping just like pva can mate

[@nathannguyen7960]

Awesome Mel! Right now I plan to use foamboard bases till I get some plywood or hardboard bases. I will just paint them both sides. Does that sound good? Cheers, Nate

[@TheTerrainTutor]

+Hobby Dump Bevel the edges and cover them in filler, that''ll help a lot mate

[@nathannguyen7960]

+TheTerrainTutor thanks Mel!

[@alwoodsmodellingmayhem]

Hi Mel. I've been out of the loop for a while, but just had to watch this from you. I recently decided to have a go at terrain building. The only base board I had was foam card. So I got to pieces, laid them flat against each other (as I wanted a step in the terrain) and put a LAYER of PVA in between. And I decided to flock the top whilst I was waiting for the PVA to dry. Came back the following day and it was a disaster! The two pieces had separated and it looked more like a flaying saucer than a flat piece of terrain. So, thanks very much for this tutorial, a lot of useful information to help me with my next attempt. Cheers Al

[@TheTerrainTutor]

+Al Wood I've had an experience liked that lol. Hope the info helps bud

[@alwoodsmodellingmayhem]

+TheTerrainTutor Mel, I've just watched your video again before gluing 3 pieces of A3 Foam Board together. I dabbed spots of PVA at intervals on each sheet and then placed them together, putting weights on one side and clamping the other. After 7 hours I have took all teh stuff off and I am left with beautifully flat A3 foam board now 15mm thick. You are awesome!

[@TheTerrainTutor]

Al Wood Score!

[@TheTerrainTutor]

Al Wood For future ref ... www.arcolaproducts.co.uk/products/foam-board/

[@alwoodsmodellingmayhem]

TheTerrainTutor Result! Thanks mate.

[@billronan2868]

I had bowing with 5mm MDF.

[@Ajial01]

The drawings in red of the shapes, is that the shape of the base when looking at it from above?

[@TheTerrainTutor]

+David Taylor Yep

[@graemecollin]

+David Taylor Plan-view, yes.

[@TimmiTification]

Hi mel Tim here. I hope you can help me. I have a 2ft by 2ft square mdf Base. I went against your advice and selected 3mm thickness. (I know I know lesson learned the hard way). I have sprayed it black and added some small sheets of corrugated cardboard to profile some gentle contours with the intention of laying mod rock I got from colemansover the entire board. Alas I am stricken with a case of corner warp and I can now spin my Base board like I'm some 90s mix master vinyl jockey. If I duck tape the board flat and apply mod rock, will the moisture in the mod rock and the tape holding my baseboard down, will that counter the warp do you reckon. All the best mate, Tim. Northants.

[@TheTerrainTutor]

+Tim Boddington No mate, you need to counter warp it. Paint a cross in pva about 4 inches wide running corner to corner on the underneath of the board. That should pull it back but I reckon it'll be an ongoing problem with anything under 12mm mate

[@GregoryGeilman]

I have some 1/4" plywood boards that are warped in the corners that I need to try and counter warp them, although I fear it has been too long. In the future, do you suggest putting the PVA in spots in the corners?

[@gmangaz2007]

get a large piece of cardboard and draw out area , leaving rest blank space outside box, circular etc for books.

[@TheTerrainTutor]

+gmangaz2007 you've lost me mate? what do you mean?

[@vrprof3624]

+gmangaz2007 Pretty sure they are talking about clamping edges while the glue dries. I always clamp or use weights when I glue. Haven't done enough pieces to determine if I have just been lucky or if the weights/clamps are preventing warping. But now I know what to look for I'll pay more attention and track my results.

[@lanasmith4795]

I wonder if using scrap leather would be an absolute horrible idea

[@TheTerrainTutor]

I have no idea ..... but I'm sooooo curious!

[@IshFarid]

Hi Mel, what can I do to counter warping on foam board? I build my structures and base for it on foam board, but after painting, it warps. Thanks. Ish

[@TheTerrainTutor]

Paint the bottom with pva, it'll warp it straight again mate

[@IshFarid]

TheTerrainTutor Thank you.

[@spencerwhipple625]

I had an issue with 2 strips of road I did on a base of very thin poplar that was very like the last part about strips of cardboard. I actually got it to mostly straighten out by just flooding the bottom with water - my theory was that the warping was because if the water being absorbed and the fibres expanding. Does that make sense? In either case not a great material, but it's what I had heh

[@TheTerrainTutor]

+Spencer Whipple More likely the water reactivated the pva but can't be sure. Best just to avoid cardboard imho mate

[@spencerwhipple625]

+TheTerrainTutor yeah agreed. I graduated a while ago heh ;). I think the poplar isn't great either. Too porous

[@LesCM19]

Ha ha. "Into the warp zone". Like a DT class, very technical.

[@TheTerrainTutor]

+Les Hammond Probably my most proper lesson so far lol

[@belkozen]

Mel, 8:10 hit me real hard. Just built a terrain set with a "smirk smirk" piece. The warping was terrible. Managed to pull them reasonably back in by gluing the bottoms. imgur.com/a/pI3bW#DhGeGF7

[@TheTerrainTutor]

+belkozen We've all been there buddy ;-D

[@TheAgentmigs]

He explained the FUCK out of that.

[@TheTerrainTutor]

Yes I did :-D

[@graemecollin]

Girth = circumference ...

[@TheTerrainTutor]

+Graeme Collin Cheers bud

[@whatstdiggn]

Lol girth

[@TheTerrainTutor]

+whatstdiggn ;-)