A Guide to Vestments and Clergy Clothing

[@dhixon1]

I’m a Methodist pastor. Wear clerical collar on Sundays and other occasions; usually wear a pectoral cross with robes (whether surplice or Geneva gown)

[@diannalaubenberg7532]

Dhixon1 I think I've seen some of your videos. You are in Louisiana, right?

[@christopherastudillo2918]

Why wear a Geneva gown if Methodist doctrine is so far away from Geneva doctrine

[@ScholasticLutherans]

If you check out Zion Detroit's KZbin channel, you can see use of many of the rarer vestments. As a member of the congregation, we are blessed to have copes, dalmatics (our bishop emeritus serves as liturgical Deacon generally), and tunicles (we've maintained the liturgical office of subdeacon) for each liturgical color, each of which is used on Sundays. In non-liturical church settings (such as a conference lecture), our pastor will also wear a black waistband and shoulder cape over his cassock, and the bishop often wears his purple clerical shirt. Truly a blessing to have such a selection. -Seth

[@augustinian2018]

Speaking as an Anglican, I’ve really only seen pectoral crosses worn by bishops in the Anglican tradition, whereas my mental picture of a Lutheran pastor wouldn’t be complete without a pectoral cross. Never quite consciously realized that until Dr. Cooper mentioned it.

[@lorenzomurrone2430]

Lol, here in Italy it's the same, Lutheran pastors with collar and pectoral cross look more like RC bishops

[@benmizrahi2889]

@@lorenzomurrone2430 Wait, so what do the actual Lutheran bishops wear?

[@lorenzomurrone2430]

@@benmizrahi2889 We are way too small to have bishops yet - we literally have only one Pastor!

[@poordoubloon10]

For some reason, I find liturgical headgear the most fascinating! (Probably because it's the least commonly seen in our churches). Everyone could use more mitres in their life.

[@nathanielnelson324]

Don’t stop. You are the first one to that I heard that would talked about the vestments . Thanks 🙏.

[@logicaredux5205]

I have to say Doctor, you look great! For me, vestments are a sign of church done right. Keep it coming!❤️👍🏼

[@joelhaas765]

My first Anglican priest/pastor taught us all of the names of the vestments and then told him us to visit a local charismatic/Pentecostal service and start blurting out these names… “They’ll welcome you with open arms for having the gift of speaking tongues!” In my old Anglican diocese, which was “high church” in terms of liturgy and sacramental theology, and fairly conservative (ACNA breakaway from TEC), almost all clergy, including most deacons, wore pectoral crosses. The priesthood of all believers was a big part of our practical theology, us lay people were all encouraged (sometimes pushed and prodded) to have a “ministry” in the Church.

[@NB-qo4ds]

I'm super duper happy you started this series, Dr Cooper. Thank you.

[@CasaDeCristo]

Thank you Dr. Cooper. The series is awesome and you make it interesting.

[@Andrew-wo8ry]

I always wonder how the first to get to a video is the people who disagree. Great video and explanation!

[@mrs.teilborg649]

Thank you for this. I love hearing all the history and significance and would love more indepth information!!

[@HenryLeslieGraham]

zucchettos were invented for warmth specifically because of tonsure. monks and clerics had their heads partially shaved, and therefore the zucchetto was to cover that part of the head

[@Χριστιανός-ο1η]

Yessss!!! I am sure this will be a good series. Dr. Cooper, I hope you mention how the three transcendentals (and your book) is related to the liturgy.

[@yuxiwei1184]

very helpful, please keep doing other detailed videos!

[@DrJordanBCooper]

I will be getting back to these.

[@gagegarlinghouse258]

Hey, I was there when that alb picture was taken. That was a good week. Great episode Doctor! I'm looking forward to more of these as they come out!

[@psylegio]

I really look forward to this series!

[@MichaelJohnson-vi6eh]

Im a Presbyterian and the pastors of my church have worn most of the time, the cassock style alb with a stole. During Ash Wednesday, Holy Week or perhaps during a funeral, they wear the geneva robe. During warm weather, an all weather suit/dress with a stole on top. My new pastor looks like he favors the geneva robe with the larger double tab style clerical collar. It does really look like its personal taste except that for "holidays?" and for communion pastors are more likely to not wear just street clothes and a stole. In my last church, communion assistants and lay readers wore a variant on the robes worn by choir members with a thinner stole. In our tradition one of the job titles of clergy is "teaching elder" so the geneva robe feels more like an academic robe and more suited to that duty.

[@DoubtfireClub]

How delightful! Thanks for this!

[@lutherserbe6435]

Great video! An insight on the Lutherrock would be nice aswell

[@rangerswampyclay]

Would love a continued series on all things liturgy. Especially how the early church viewed the art and doctrines of worship.

[@joharr4406]

This was fun. I'd love to see more

[@semperadiuvans]

On the topic of Anglican pectoral crosses, it is unusual presently for a non-bishop Anglican to wear the pectoral cross. However, I have seen a lay reader of the Reformed Episcopal Church in Croatia wear one.

[@benpeters4007]

Let’s go! pumped for this series!

[@benmizrahi2889]

I shall send this video to our new pietist priest so he can finally wear the vestments like we desire him to.

[@twentyfourthrones]

Very interesting! Thanks for the explanations plus visuals

[@B27-o2c]

In my experience (LCMS), the vast majority of pastors wear the alb, cincture, stole, and pectoral cross as their standard vestments. Mine wears the cassock and surplice for vespers. I’ve been in a few churches were they also wear the chasuble for Divine Service.

[@p.t.benzinger2179]

I love comparing the OT worship structure found in Dt and Lv and seeing a similar comparison to the modern day liturgical vestments of Orthodox churches. It's not about the person wearing it, but about God's office of Holy Ministy, its a distinction of Holy Vs. Common (Lv 6-10 ). I.e. Priest duty of Burnt offering would wear the Holy vestments for sacrifice- "the means of grace", and put on common clothes to take care of the ashes. Wulfmueller uses the term "liturgical camoflague" cos the vestments match the paraments.

[@peterwarner358]

Can you do one on paraments and on Vesting Prayers. Some Choir Robes also have stoles that go around the neck.

[@augsburgdiet1530]

Excellent video! Very enjoyable! I would have liked a little more explanation about the Geneva gown. My pastor (LCMS) wears a black Geneva and pectoral cross. The old Luther paintings, at least those I've seen, seem to always portray him preaching in the black gown and never in elaborate vestments. My question would be, did Luther normalize the academic gown for church use before Calvin?

[@poordoubloon10]

I know there are other historically practical explanations for their development, but I do like the theory that many of these vestments derived originally from their counterparts in Judaism... mitre = turban; zucchetto = yarmulke; stole = prayer shawl, etc etc

[@benmizrahi2889]

Yeah, the Yarmulke itself is simply part of the dress of the Polish nobility of the 16th century, the real origin of the ultra-orthodox Jewish uniform.

[@T-Cranmer]

From what I have seen in the Anglican Church, our bishops are more likely than priests to wear a pectoral cross. Still worn less overall compared to the Lutheran tradition, to the best of my knowledge. I like how y’all wear them so often. Great vid!

[@Mygoalwogel]

My pastor is a Peipkorn reader, and reminds us that all Lutheran pastors are bishops.

[@benmizrahi2889]

@@Mygoalwogel Yes, but bishops still need something to help the average layperson distinguish them from the regular priests.

[@archbishopnicholasacresocr429]

A priest is not too wear bishops. Cross

[@archbishopjohnjohnston1184]

Forgot about the Red Color Shirts which is worn by Archbishops and Patriarchs of the Anglican Church. In street clothes wearing the clergy shirt and sports coat with the Pectoral Cross is usually put in the left shirt pocket. Shepherds Staff and not a cane

[@cwstreeper]

That was very interesting and informative. Coming to Lutheranism from a Baptist tradition I'm still learning about all the liturgical trappings. Curious as to what a seminarian should wear? Perhaps to say something like a pastors conference or prior to their vicarage? Thoughts?

[@augustinian2018]

Most of the Lutheran seminarians I knew (went to an LCMS college) wore clerical collars the first chance they got when they got to seminary-it’s not as directly connected to ordination as it is in other liturgical traditions (they might wait until they’re authorized to preach-I’ve known LCMS first years wearing clerical collars, though they could have already completed Homiletics I by the time I met up with them). I’m Anglican, where the collar is more of a symbol of ordination, so the seminarians at the Anglo-Catholic near me similarly wear clerical collars the first chance they get once they’re ordained to the diaconate. So I think the answer to when seminarians start wearing clerical collars is: as soon as they possibly can.

[@jimmyking8074]

Good stuff Dr. Cooper, would like to know your thoughts on some of the vestments (particularly the hats) in relation to 1 Corinthians 11! Till then, God bless!

[@davidneil6206]

Our parish has grey, hooded albs which have been used by Deacons. Nobody remembers why though.

[@toddvoss52]

Great overview!

[@alexwarstler9000]

Dang! Looking good in the whole get up, Pr. Cooper.

[@SoniaBooth-e4n]

Very helpful. Thank you

[@joshuaorourke1976]

A video on the liturgical deacon and subdeacon would be great.

[@Paradude84]

I once visited a parish where the priest wore a brightly colored Hawaiian shirt turned clerical collar. I didn’t stay.

[@DrJordanBCooper]

Oof

[@dhixon1]

I believe the skull cap was also for covering the bare parts of a monk’s head, due to his tonsure

[@davidstone5595]

2:06 I laughed but also felt ashamed. I used to be one of those kind of people...

[@barelyprotestant5365]

One of the jokes we have about the 39 buttons is that we leave unbuttoned the ones we disagree with. :P Very few priests within the Anglican Tradition will wear a pectoral cross.

[@mikeduke8932]

This was very interesting. 😁

[@colesmith3185]

Nice video, thanks!

[@terratremuit4757]

Great video

[@mmtoss6530]

Thoughts on the black Geneva robe

[@Shevock]

Useful video. I enjoyed it.

[@SnowBorn1]

Where do you buy these vestment? I know CPH has some, but their clerical collar shirts aren't the greatest fit, and they don't have much for variety.

[@HenryLeslieGraham]

hi dr cooper. what is more correct do you think? priest or pastor? some - mostly baptists - say that priest is not appropriate since it goes against the priesthood of all believers (although it derives from the same root as presbyter)

[@DrJordanBCooper]

I use pastor, but I'm pretty ok with whichever term you want to use.

[@poordoubloon10]

The two are used interchangeably both within the Lutheran Confessions and the Lutheran Orthodox writers (Chemnitz, Gerhard, et al). (Of course, there's only "one office", but three sub-offices within historically) But if we're being technical, "pastor" is a post or function within the office of presbyter in his relation to a particular congregation (but bishops may also be thought of as "pastors" in that sense too). Presbyter/elder is the more appropriate term to use for an ordained man generally (whether or not he's serving a local call) who hasn't been consecrated/installed to the episcopate -- in which case he'd be either "bishop" or "bishop emeritus."

[@HenryLeslieGraham]

@@poordoubloon10 ah ok thats very detailed thank you. but why use priest at all - since the baptists and modern evangelicals say it reeks of popery and its not appropriate given that all are priests according to the book of hebrews. my pastor(s) doesnt like being called pastor even. he says he is just a minister (the senior minister). he doesnt use reverend and never refers to himself even as presbyter (even though he is a priest in the church of england). do you have any info on why christians would or wouldnt approve of this? or of the various opinions of clergy historically? the disregard for titles and forms of address seems to be very baptist/quaker

[@poordoubloon10]

@@HenryLeslieGraham I think it has to do with a false understanding in English of "priest" as having anything to do with sacerdotalism (sacrifice). As you point out, "priest" is an anglicized form of prester which is Germanic form of 'presbyter' -- so etymologically, _priest_ just means "elder." In any case, the Prayerbook Ordinal does use 'priest', so your pastor should at least tolerate it. Priest is more accurate for the title of the second rank of the Christian ministry in contrast to pastor as the title for the middle officer is "elder" not "shepherd" (which is closer to the notion of overseer, aka bishop).

[@Mygoalwogel]

@@poordoubloon10 That's a really succinct explanation. Very helpful. Thanks.

[@P1ne.Marten]

Did clergy members historically have to wear their uniform all the time? I'm guessing that nowdays you can wear other clothes if you're out of church but was it always like that?

[@alexlancaster5455]

Liturgical deacons and subdeacons have been utilized in liturgical videos produced by Gottesdienst. I know Zion in Detroit does utilize liturgical deacons on occasion!

[@NK-zf5pq]

I appreciate your constant use of the word “traditions” - no need for the evangelicals to freak out!

[@HenryLeslieGraham]

baptists be like: "iTs NoT bIbLiCaL"

[@P-el4zd]

When Baptist see a crucifix and a statue of the blessed virgin St. Mary, Jesus or any other Saint … Baptist be like: “nO gRaVeN iMaGeS … call no man father …” pApiSt!

[@benmizrahi2889]

@@P-el4zd And then people wonder why I believe baptists are not Christian and are not saved.

[@caedmonnoeske3931]

@@P-el4zd Actually, most modern Baptists probably wouldn't care. It's mostly we Presbyterians, Dutch Reformed, who take issue with images of Christ.

[@P-el4zd]

@@caedmonnoeske3931 True you are probably right most modern Baptism would not care… but then again walk into any Baptist Church (that looks like corporate warehouses with purple, red and green lighting behind the stage for the “paise band”) they are as sterile as an operating room. Iconoclasm is primary a false teaching of the Presbyterians/ reformed Baptist. .

[@archbishopnicholasacresocr429]

Baptist are not Catholics they have no holy orders

[@archbishopnicholasacresocr429]

Only high Church area too wear purple

[@davidw.5185]

Good to see you wearing a collar. The guys who wear ties look like they are selling insurance or used cars. Uniforms are good!

[@149jimbo]

Only bishops wear a pectoral cross within the Church of England and, presumably, within the whole Anglican Communion

[@archbishopnicholasacresocr429]

Cross only for bishops

[@piratesapper]

So wait, you’re basically hearing confession without the legal protections that the seal of confession is granted. You need to stop.

[@ThinkingBiblically]

5 "But all their works they do to be seen by men. They make their phylacteries broad and enlarge the borders of their garments. 6 "They love the best places at feasts, the best seats in the synagogues, 7 "greetings in the marketplaces, and to be called by men,`Rabbi, Rabbi.' 8 "But you, do not be called`Rabbi'; for One is your Teacher, the Christ, and you are all brethren. 9 "Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. 10 "And do not be called teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ. (Mat 23:5-10 NKJ) 6 He answered and said to them, "Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:`This people honors Me with their lips, But their heart is far from Me. 7 And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.' 8 "For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men-- the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do." 9 He said to them, "All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition. (Mar 7:6-9 NKJ)

[@EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts]

H A T S

[@michaelwolfe8888]

This is interesting, but, as a conservative Christian, I find it offputting and papishly pretentious. Apart from Revelation imagery, which applies to the saints in glory, not so-called "clergy," I see no support in the New Testament for unique vestments to be worn at all by Christians in this world. There is no evidence that, for example, Peter, John, or Paul arrayed themselves in any such fashion. And Paul certainly doesn't call for such practice in any of his epistles. There is more the air of conceit than solemnity in the wearing of vestments. And very much so in the broadening of phylacteries, I mean pectoral crosses.

[@Mygoalwogel]

Are you familiar with the Normative Principle vs Regulative Principle?

[@michaelwolfe8888]

@@Mygoalwogel Yes. The wearing of vestments certainly isn't regulative. Normative, ehh. Tolerable (non-heretical) that some want to wear and/or see them - sure, OK. Appropriate, and truly helpful or worshipful, I think not. Pretentious - I still think so. And the arguments in support of the practice seem weak and strained to me. Yet, if Lutherans want to embrace the practice then that doesn't offend me personally, and we can still have loving fellowship in Jesus Christ.

[@WhataboutTRUTH]

All these clothing items are man made and not biblical, it's time to return to the Truth of God's Word.

[@samichjpg]

they're all based on the priestly vestments of the old testament

[@invaderzimrocksify]

lol don’t wear clothes then.

[@tracygriffin4439]

You know, you are right. I say we must cast aside ALL man-made clothing and be clothed only in the righteousness of Christ. Why man made clothing is an ABOMINATION to God, is it not? And we shall not have any of that abomination around here! No siree! Don't you dare wear man-made clothing when you come to worship at the Church of the Most Sanctified Brethren! Woo! Glory! Amen!

[@larrycdalton]

Never left Rome...

[@DrJordanBCooper]

You're right. We didn't. Rome left us.

[@benmizrahi2889]

Yes Rome was the one which departed with their Tridentine nonsense, we stayed exactly where we were.

[@chrisharris9710]

“Beware of the scribes, who like to walk around in long robes………”

[@P-el4zd]

“Beware of the Baptist/Evangelical who wear skinny jeans and sings in a praise band………”

[@HenryLeslieGraham]

beware of baptists who cast many babes into the wind as though are but impious chaff

[@Dilley_G45]

@@P-el4zd yes 😀

[@Dilley_G45]

@@P-el4zd Friel gets it right sometimes. Still a calvinian that denies baptismal regeneration though

[@P-el4zd]

@@Dilley_G45 Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while. ;)

[@donhaddix3770]

not biblical, roman pagan origins.

[@eternaljunker8300]

great video.