A Response to Fr. Mike Schmitz on Magisterial Authority and Protestantism

[@redeemedzoomer6053]

You should do more Protestant apologetics cuz there are like 50 strong Catholic/Orthodox apologists online for every half decent Protestant one

[@DrJordanBCooper]

@redeemedzoomer6053 I know. I have some more videos like this planned, but I just really don't want to be a "Protestant apologist."

[@neilmanuel2650]

I don't think they're very strong, actually. Also, thank you both for all your hard work.

[@Scoma19]

​@DrJordanBCooper I appreciate that a lot. As much as I like these response videos, I would never trade them for the normal videos that you do here.

[@jimmu2008]

@@DrJordanBCooper I find generic "Protestant" apologetics much less compelling than most denominational apologetics, whether it's Catholic, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Orthodox...

[@redeemedzoomer6053]

@@DrJordanBCooper up to you, but I’ve seen scores of young men AND WOMEN briefly inquire into Lutheranism only to end up in Rome or the East. You have a unique ability to bring tons of people into Lutheranism and stop the LCMS decline

[@danielhixon8209]

You are 100% correct that the fathers do not say “what does the pope and magisterium teach?“ But rather they say “what does the scripture teach, and what logically follows from that? “. Though they don’t use the term “sola scriptura” they largely operate like people who believe in it. They do not sound like contemporary Roman Catholics.

[@davethesid8960]

Except that it's just not true. The early Church constantly appeals to the authority of Rome to settle disagreements. The letter from Clement (ca. 95) to the Church in Corinth is a clear example of Rome exercising authority over another Christian community. Clement, writing as the bishop of Rome, resolves disputes in Corinth, despite being geographically distant. The letter demonstrates that Rome was regarded as having a role in maintaining order in the universal Church. In his letter to the Romans, Ignatius of Antioch (ca. 110) refers to the Roman Church as the one that "presides in love" over the other Churches. After Polycarp, bishop of Smyrna, was martyred in 155, the Church in Smyrna sent an account of his death to the Church in Rome. In Against Heresies (Book III, Chapter 3, ca. 180), Irenaeus emphasizes the importance of the Church in Rome, stating that all Churches must agree with it because of its "preeminent authority." He connects this authority to the succession of bishops from Peter and Paul. “For with this Church, because of its superior origin, all the Churches must agree... and it is in her that the faithful everywhere have maintained the apostolic tradition.” This controversy revolved around the date of Easter. Victor I (ca. 190), the bishop of Rome, sought to standardize its observance and excommunicated churches in Asia Minor that followed the Quartodeciman practice. Saint Cyprian (ca. 250) explicitly acknowledges the primacy of the bishop of Rome in matters of Church governance. In his writings, he refers to Rome as the "chair of Peter", the "principal Church" and the source of ecclesiastical unity. During the Council of Ephesus, in condemning Nestorius, the council accepted the authority of Pope Celestine I, who had already judged the matter and delegated Cyril of Alexandria to act on his behalf. Also, read Luke 22:31-32 and Acts 15.

[@justinmayfield6579]

@@davethesid8960 Those are some cherry-picked and stretched examples, though. Either way, the normal mode of operations in my patristic studies is repeated plain appeal to scripture, not appeal to Rome. More still, Clement doesn't exercise authority over Corinth, for instance. He exhorts them and most of the letter is him quoting scripture. Ignatius doesn't say what you said. He says the Roman Church presides over the Roman region. Like Jerusalem in the NT church in Acts 15, Rome was an important city in the Roman Empire. It hasn't been important in a very long time to anyone but Italians and Roman Catholics, though, unfortunately.

[@davethesid8960]

@@justinmayfield6579 Cherry-picked? He said there weren't any, and I only showed that's not true. Of course they appealed to Scripture, why wouldn't they, we do the same even today. However, they appealed to the Church's infallible understanding of it when it came to defending the papacy, Purgatory, or Mary. You somehow ignore that the Early Church was 100% Catholic. The Bible isn't and was never regarded as the final authority for several reasons: it wasn't intended to be, the apostles also taught orally, and didn't write down everything. Moreover, an infallible book without an infallible interpreter is useless. Also, the false teaching of Sola Scriptura itself is nowhere to be found, only read into Scripture. That's called eisegesis.

[@josiah7143]

I stumbled upon your channel at the start of this year, and fell in love with the Lutheran tradition immediately! I am being confirmed in my lcms church next week, and I thank God for your work!

[@adampetersen4795]

God bless you!!!

[@kodyoneill497]

I will be soon as well! Congratulations!

[@Bop10899]

As an Anglican, I thank you dearly for what a talented diplomat you are for what we agree on. I pray your ministry does God’s will. May the Grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.

[@aleckim9337]

There is nothing better than a 1 hour JBC video at 2am

[@Dilley_G45]

There is but this is great too

[@jacobjuly6010]

Me and da Concordia Boyz at 3am

[@gabesternberg555]

I cannot believe he said that Luther took the deuterocannon out. This just shows that most rc apologists care more about slandering protestants than telling the truth.

[@brendanlove9739]

I meeean, he did though. He took the books out of the main canon and put them in the back as books that aren’t as important as the “main 66”. Then later on that snowball kept growing until the British and Foreign Bible Society decided to completely get rid of the deuterocanonical books from the Bible in order to save money on paper. Now here we are today, where there are people that think there are only 66 books and either don’t know about the other 7, think they aren’t important, or even think that the apostolic churches just added them later. So, in the grand scheme of things, Martin Luther started that chain of events that led to the removal of the 7 books. Also, just so you’re aware, many Protestant ways of doing things aren’t theological by nature. The doctrines like sola scriptura were put in place by politicians who took advantage of Martin Luther’s movement to get away from the power of the church for their own selfish, secular reasons. Why would they want a church ruling over them while they are saying that they can’t do this and that? Why not just convince people that the church has no real authority and to make your own interpretations of scripture? You don’t need some church to keep things in line, right? Just figure it out for yourself. Be spiritual, not religious, right? They ignore the fact that it isn’t the way things were meant to be, or the fact that they may be messing with theirs and everyone else that follows them’s eternal salvation, but there are more important things to worry about, like their corporate power, right? As a cradle Protestant, I have for the past few months been doing the research and have seen the error in my thinking, and, as crazy as me a decade ago might think it is, becoming either Catholic or Orthodox just makes the most sense, moreso leaning Catholic due to St. Peter’s obvious authority over the early church both through scriptural and historical evidence

[@jesussotelo4775]

Luther did remove those books.

[@EcclesiaInvicta]

​@@jesussotelo4775 False, he's Bible translation contains the Deuterocanonical Books, how many times do we have to say this?

[@EcclesiaInvicta]

​@@brendanlove9739I'm not going respond to all of what you wrote here, it has been refuted time a time again. But I'm going to respond that Martin Luther allegedly removed some books from the Bible, first of all by saying he "removed" some books presupposes that ther is already an established cannon, which is fallse because for the first 1500 years of church history there is not a single council that universaly determined the canon of Scripture, it was just a loose canon, secondly Martin Luther was not the first one to set the Apocrypha into a different section, St Jerome did, so this whole argument utterly fails.

[@ministeriosemmanuel638]

@@brendanlove9739 I’m not going to respond to everything that you wrote here, it has all been refuted time and time again. Bu I am going to respond to that claim that Luther Removed books from the Bible. First of all saying the he “removed” books from the Bible presupposes that there is an already established canon, which is just false because there was no singular set of canon that the Church have universally accepted it was a loosed canon at first. Secondly Martin Luther wasn’t the first one to set the Apocrypha into a different section, St Jerome did. So this entire argument just utterly fails historically.

[@fab7an758]

Being attending a Lutheran church since September, and you were a big part in my move from non-denominational/ Baptist. Thank you for all your work Dr. Cooper

[@ericbarlow6772]

Thank you for your informed response. I’ve noticed some Catholics apologists come across as hubristic by denying there are other Holy Sees, namely Antioch, Alexandria, and Constantinople. They do not recognize Rome’s supremacy but before the schism of 1054 believed in the primacy of interpretation as ‘first among equals.’

[@tonyfisher9961]

@@ericbarlow6772 the Othodox are hubris.

[@Matt-Pursley]

As a Protestant, I have spent a good deal of time reading the fathers looking for the source and flow of authority in their argument. It seems clear to me they think the scriptures are clear and the tradition of the apostles are binding upon how they read scripture.

[@taylorbarrett384]

Augustine has an entire book dedicated to explaining how to interpret difficult passages of Scripture. He didn't think it was all entirely clear. In fact he always says that our Lord was at times intentionally unclear in order to provoke a hunger and thirst within us. As far as the authority of Catholic tradition, he finds the universal and/or ancient tradition to be an inviolable rule of faith that we must not contradict. Although it would be anachronistic and erroneous to impute something like the developed doctrine of Vatican 1 back onto Augustine (his view of the unique role of the Pope did not quite reach that level), he does seem to believe there is something like an infallible authority indwelt in the Catholic Church.

[@calebbolding9291]

@@taylorbarrett384what book would that be? I’d like to give it a look!

[@taylorbarrett384]

@calebbolding9291 "On Christian Doctrine." You can find it free on NewAdvent

[@tkurzND]

@@calebbolding9291 maybe, Teaching Christianity (De Doctrina Christiana) but also parts of the Confessions and City of God.

[@pete3397]

@@taylorbarrett384 Yet, St. Augustine holds that Scripture has ultimate authority over the Church and non-Scriptural writings from the Fathers. He asserts, rather, that the authority of the Church, or rather its purpose, is not to make up doctrines, i.e. he is not a holder to doctrinal development that develops outside of Scripture, but to uphold the doctrines of the faith handed down by the Apostles. So, he doesn't really hold to an inviolable Tradition as a source of doctrine as much as he holds to an inviolable Scripture as the source of doctrine that the Church is duty-bound to uphold and pass on.

[@ChristianCombatives]

This was a fun video; as far as popular Roman Catholics go, I'm far more a fan of Fr Schmitz than someone like Bishop Barron, but it does make me cringe to hear him use these sorts of 101 arguments like "Martin Luther removed books from the Bible". I'm also tickled by how often Chemnitz's work is brought up. RC polemicists often present the ideas as if no one has ever thought of a counter-argument when entire book exists from 500 years ago already answering in detail virtually all of the "Checkmate Protestant" claims they make to this day. Wish it could be a more well-read book, but it is a hefty tome.

[@TheJoeschmoe777]

I prefer Bishop Barron to Fr Schmitz. Barron is a lot more charitable when dialoguing with Protestants.

[@ChirpingChirping-u2z]

This catholic priest is targeting ignorant non-denom/charismatics/baptists etc. Evangelicals need to come back to Classical Protestantism. Blessings

[@Dilley_G45]

Of course. The reformation was never about inventing new theology, abandoning the real presence or turning baptism into an empty symbol

[@guilhermeioshuabelmont7326]

Evangelicals need to come back to the Evangelic Christian Church, aka, Lutheranism.

[@SaintPaul-bp3qr]

Both Evangelicals and Protestants need to come back to the one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church 🇻🇦

[@Dilley_G45]

@SaintPaul-bp3qr My orthodox friends say something similar about the Catholics. Well we confessional Lutherans are the true Catholic Church. Catholic = universal. Purified Catholic.

[@annb9029]

Yes these fundamentalist don’t even think Lutherans are Christians if tried to debate them as a Catholic it’s a waste of of time they don’t care nor know any church history

[@Jmr6813]

I have been going to Catholic Mass and I have been very interested in converting, but I have also been very interested in Lutheranism. Lutheranism seems like a very pure Christianity. ✝️ This is interesting timing.

[@R11-o8l]

If you want to become a member of a church founded a little over 500 years ago by a priest, not a bishop, a priest then go ahead buddy. Only bishops can ordain priests. Luther wasn't a bishop.

[@Jmr6813]

@ To be fair, Nordic Lutheran churches do have a claim to apostolic succession because they had bishops that became Lutheran. Another note on apostolic succession is that Swedish Lutherans can actually trace their lineage further back than any current Roman bishop. From what I have read, the furthest back a Roman bishop can trace their lineage back to is 1541 while Swedish Lutheran bishops can go back to 1439.

[@chedge]

@@R11-o8lTo investigate the true full Catholic Church, which has been since the time of the foundation of the Church, I would encourage you to certainly watch KZbin’s by Fr Mike Schmitz without other commentary and, notably the teaching made clear in the “Word on Fire” led by Bishop Robert Barron which deserves some attention and prayer. I am a convert to the Catholic Church and was helped partly by the full rich teachings of “Word on Fire”

[@11tkohtz]

Father Mike is a charasmatic individual in Roman Catholicsm with his audience based on college age students. However, If you're Catholic his points are only going to reaffirm what you believe. If you're not Catholic he's only going to reaffirm why you're not Catholic.

[@toddvoss52]

He has done a great service to all Christians with his Bible in a Year Podcast . Quite a few Protestants followed it . And no they didn’t all convert to RC; that wasn’t the purpose of it.

[@chasemcclellan4408]

Real Lutherans watching JBC at midnight instead of partying raise your hand 🙋‍♀

[@jacobjuly6010]

😂🙋

[@philipchaisson]

Third option: I'm old with a full-time job, so I'm asleep 😂

[@bigbangcesar]

I was partying while watching JBC…

[@philipchaisson]

@@bigbangcesar 4th option acknowledged 👍😂

[@DLac99]

Presby but right here with ya

[@jacobjuly6010]

Thank you, Dr. Cooper, very helpful! And for what it's worth, I'm happy with the balance you maintain between these sorts of pop level apologetics and your other more scholarly efforts. Both are needed and appreciated, but I feel you've pretty much managed to dial in to the proper ratio (imo) between the two. Thanks again, God bless!

[@rooderoo12]

Great response once again. Really enjoying your content. I am Dutch Reformed (CRCNA), but am considering Lutheranism. It's amazing how people don't know anything about it. I am reading The Saving Truth by Marquart and learning a lot. I think the next step would be just to go to an LCMS service near me.

[@DrJordanBCooper]

You should!

[@thewiseandthefoolish]

Marquart rocks!

[@kellylorang6845]

Thanks!

[@DrJordanBCooper]

Thank you!

[@redknightsr69]

Does anyone else feel that Fr Mike is the type of dude anyone wkuld enjoy talking to? The world needs more pastors like him.

[@SaintPaul-bp3qr]

God bless you

[@danielboone8256]

Sorry, Dr. Cooper but the tradcaths on Twitter say that Schmitz has better physiognomy because his wider jaw so he must be right

[@protestant77]

JESUS said: If ye love ❤️ me keep my commandments ~ John 14:15 🔹THE 10 COMMANDMENTS! 1) Thou shalt not have other god's 2) Thou shalt not make any graven images 3) Thou shalt not take God's name in vain 4) Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. 👉(NOT SUNDAY!) 5) Honor thy father and mother 6) Thou shalt not kill 7) Thou shalt not commit adultery 8) Thou shalt not steal 9) Thou shalt not bear false witness 10) Thou shalt not covet 🙏🏽Please check this with any HOLY BIBLE! 👉🏼(Exodus 20:3-17)

[@jessemeier3447]

​@@protestant77 lol want to know how I know you're American (at least North American)? In Europe, the 7th day of the week is Sunday, and Saturday is the 6th day. Because their calendar week starts on Monday. So asserting that Saturday is the 7th day of the week is just silly and it all depends on where your feet stand. Read Mark 2-3 and the words that Jesus said; the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. Jesus is the Sabbath rest. Ultimately we have Christian freedom to celebrate our Savior on Saturday, Sunday, or any other day of the week, but since I'm a baptized child of Christ, I get to enjoy the Sabbath rest every day that I wake up knowing that I'm a part of His family because of what he did in my place on the cross. The most important thing is that I set aside one day off the week to receive his gifts of Word and Sacraments with the fellow community of Christ through His Bride, the Church. Lord's Blessings and have a wonderful Christmas.

[@protestant77]

@ Do you believe GOD actually blessed, sanctified & hallowed one day of the week? 👉(Genesis 2:2,3) & (Hebrews 4:4) Yes or No??

[@jessemeier3447]

@protestant77 you miss the whole point of Hebrews 4 if you think it's only talking about a specific day for rest. Hebrews 4:16 [16]Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need. In the OT there was certainly a Sabbath day. This was a foreshadowing of Christ, who fulfilled the Sabbath.

[@marilynmelzian7370]

My understanding of the Trinitarian arguments is that even the heretics believed in it in some way. The question was trying to figure out how to explain it without falling into a whole host of errors. Thus most could say, God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The problem was understanding what was meant by that. Thus, Trinity was not an invention without scriptural basis, but trying to understand what the scripture itself said. This in no way can be paralleled by the concept of purgatory. I agree with you, Jordan.

[@z8urducks]

Mike’s “Bible in a Year” podcast that ranked number one on several podcast platforms. Considering that only over 60% of US Christians never read all of the Bible this achievement is worth celebrating. Regardless of whether you agree with his theology, he has done a great deal to promote Christianity. Mike is truly a remarkable Christian leader.

[@DrJordanBCooper]

@@z8urducks For sure.

[@Steve-wg3cr]

In fairness to Father Schmitz, some of the things he is saying where people ask, "Where is that in the Bible?" does occur among some Christians. I've heard it myself from time to time. As Dr. Cooper said, Father Schmitz is operating on a popular level of teaching and is addressing this topic in such a way.

[@DrJordanBCooper]

Some non-denoms can be pretty confused I guess.

[@BoomTownJava]

Any update on part 3 of the Papal supremacy series on Cardinal Newmans development of doctrine?

[@DrJordanBCooper]

@@BoomTownJava it has been recorded. I'm not sure exactly when the video will be up.

[@BoomTownJava]

@@DrJordanBCooperthank you for the update, I am looking forward to it!

[@legodavid9260]

Hey Dr. Cooper, thank you for your work. I know that you focus more on Scholarly responses, but could you do more popular level videos on Protestant apologetics? The trend of young people leaving Protestantism for Catholcism/Orthdoxy has grown so much that Protestants have not had any time to actually respond to this movement. I believe your knowledge could be crucial in countering this trend, and might even make your channel grow as young people are seeking to return to more traditional forms of Christianity.

[@DrJordanBCooper]

@@legodavid9260 send me some things to respond to.

[@drewpanyko5424]

​​@@DrJordanBCooperhello Dr. Cooper. Would you consider presenting an appraisal of the apparitions at Fatima (or Eucharistic miracles) from a Confessional Lutheran perspective?

[@VickersJon]

Thanks for your hard work Dr. Cooper. I continue to benefit from this channel. ✌️

[@dylanwagoner9768]

Thanks for addressing this. Fr Schmitz might not be an apologist but he has a huge platform. Great response!

[@donhaddix3770]

so does Satan. flee catholicism.

[@Outrider74]

The more I listen to arguments from Rome, the less convinced I am of Rome’s veracity

[@morghe321]

This was very helpful. Thank you, Dr. Cooper.

[@paulsmallwood1484]

Reformed Baptist here (or Confessional Baptist for you continental Reformed folks). This was a tremendously helpful presentation. Thank you!

[@ministeriosemmanuel638]

Be Lutheran! Baptism Saves!

[@EcclesiaInvicta]

Be Lutheran! Baptism saves!

[@zipppy2006]

“Instead, what we’re saying is that the text is clear enough that the Church does not need to rely on any external source outside of the text itself in order to come to a correct doctrinal conclusion on the issue” (15:00) But Cooper is simply wrong about this. The Councils of Nicea and Constantinople were external sources, outside the text of Scripture, that were needed to come to correct doctrinal conclusions on the issue. He then goes on to conflate the Church with theologians, paraphrasing, “Theologians can find and formulate the doctrine of the Trinity out of Scripture alone.” The point remains that the doctrine of the Trinity is underdetermined on Scripture alone, and that this led to theological disputes that resulted in the early ecumenical councils. I should say that Cooper is of course correct when he claims that the early, pre-conciliar Fathers were not appealing to a magisterium. But he neglects to recognize the normative nature of the ecumenical councils for the Church, and this normativity secures Schmitz' thesis. A fair-minded Lutheran will see that they lack something the early Church possessed, just as a fair-minded Catholic will see that they possess something that the early Church did not have.

[@andrewlonero8003]

That was really good 👍 I needed to hear that. Thanks!

[@bbharat307]

Nice video. Thank you Dr.Jordan Cooper for discount on few kindle books from Just and Sinner Publications. Must appreciated.

[@whatsup3270]

FYI - It is Divine Revelation, Sacred Tradition, and Scripture. Not a Magisterium. The Magisterium was developed as a teaching authority to battle against individual interpretations on a subjects Church related. Sadly this has grown and may be a problems itself.

[@whatsup3270]

I somewhat think Dr Cooper failed to address the authority issue. I understand the claim was some Magisterium works were not error free however that is fallibility not authority. Also the word Catholic and catholic are not equals in the context of this video/subject.

[@willkietzman1121]

Regardless of one's tradition, trying to make history out as simplistic is a poor understanding of human history. It's messy and often confusing, which is one of the many reasons that I am a Lutheran. I maintain that no denomination is 100% correct in its theology and are more than likely wrong in certain aspects; however, I do believe that the BOC is a true and faithful historical interpretation of Scripture and that one will not be led into error by adhering to the Confessions.

[@masterchief117u96]

I love me some protestant apologetics, thanks!

[@Antonio.R.O.C.]

🕊️The quotes provided below are historical facts in reference to our early church which existed prior to Romes adoption of Christianity in 313 A.D. Church: 📖"Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.” [St. Ignatius of Antioch - Letter to the Smyrneans 8 (c. A.D. 110)] Bishop, Priest & Deacon: 📖“Since, then, I have had the privilege of seeing you, through Damas your most worthy bishop, and through your worthy presbyters Bassus and Apollonius, and through my fellow-servant the deacon Sotio, whose friendship may I ever enjoy, because he is subject to the bishop as to the grace of God, and to the presbytery as to the law of Jesus Christ [St. Ignatius of Antioch- Letter to the Magnesians 2 (c. A.D. 110)]. Eucharist: 📖“Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ, which have come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God... They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, Ash that suffered for our sins and that the Father, in his goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes.” [St. Ignatius of Antioch - Letter to the Smyrnaeans 6-7 (c. A.D. 110)]. Scripture: 📖“[W]hoever perverts the sayings of the Lord for his own desires, and says that there is neither resurrection nor judgment, is the firstborn of Satan. Let us leave the foolishness and the false teaching of the crowd and turn back to the word that was delivered to us in the beginning.” [St. Polycrap of Smyrna - Letter to the Philippians 7 (c. A.D. 135)]. Sunday: 📖“But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Savior on the same day rose from the dead.” [St. Justin Martyr - First Apology 67 (c. A.D. 151)]. Actions/Works: 📖“We have learned from the prophets, and we believe it is true, that punishments, and chastisements, and good rewards, are rendered according to the merit of each man's actions. If it is not so, then all things happen by fate, and nothing is in our own power. If it is fated that this man be good, and this other evil, the former is not meritorious nor the latter blameworthy [St. Justin Martyr - First Apology 43 (c. A.D. 151)]. Apostolic Succession: 📖“It is within the power of all, in every church, who may wish to see the truth, to contemplate clearly the Tradition of the apostles manifested throughout the whole world; and we are in a position to reckon up those who were instituted bishops in the churches by the apostles, and [to demonstrate] the succession of these men to our own times; those who neither taught nor knew anything these [heretics] rave about.” [St. Irenaeus of Lyons - Against Heresies 3:3:1 (c. A.D. 189)] Baptism: 📖“The children shall be baptized first. All the children who can answer for themselves, let them answer. If there are any children who cannot answer for themselves, let their parents answer for them, or someone else from their family.” [St. Hippolytus of Rome - Apostolic Tradition 21 (c. A.D. 215)]. Confession: 📖“After this, one of the bishops present, at the request of all, laying his hand on him who is ordained bishop, shall pray this way: O God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. pour forth the power that is from you, of "the princely Spirit' that you delivered to your beloved Child, Jesus Christ, and that he bestowed on your holy apostles, who established the Church that hallows you everywhere, for the endless glory and praise of your name. Father, "who knows the hearts [of all]” grant this servant, who you have chosen for the episcopate, to feed your holy flock and serve as your high priest blamelessly night and day, and unceasingly turn away wrath from your face and offer to you the gifts of the holy Church. And that by the high priestly Spirit he may have authority "to forgive sins" according to your command.” [St. Hippolytus of Rome - Apostolic Tradition 2-3 (c. A.D. 215)]. Confirmation: 📖“The bishop will then lay his hand upon them, invoking, "Lord God, you who have made these worthy of the removal of sins through the bath of regeneration, make them worthy to be filled with your Holy Spirit, grant to them your grace, that they might serve you according to your will, for to you is the glory, Father and Son with the Holy Spirit, in the holy Church, now and throughout the ages of the ages. Amen." After this he pours the oil into his hand, and laying his hand on each of their heads, says, "I anoint you with holy oil in God the Father Almighty, and Christ Jesus, and the Holy Spirit." Then, after sealing each of them on the forehead, he shall give them the kiss of peace and say, "The Lord be with you." And the one who has been baptized shall say, "And with your spirit." So shall he do to each one [St. Hippolytus of Rome - Apostolic Tradition 21-22 (c. A.D. 215). Peter’s Authority: 📖“The Lord says to Peter: "I say to you,' he says, “that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not overcome it. And to you I will give the keys of the kingdom of heaven. [Mt 16:18-19]. On him he builds the Church, and commands him to feed the sheep [Jn 21:17], and although he assigns a like power to all the apostles, yet he founded a single chair [cathedra], and he established by his own authority a source and an intrinsic reason for that unity. Indeed the others were also what Peter was [apostles], but a primacy is given to Peter, by which it is made clear that there is one Church and one chair.... If someone does not hold fast to this unity of Peter, can he think that he holds the faith? If he deserts the chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, can he be confident that he is in the Church?.” [St. Cyprian of Carthage - Unity of the Catholic Church 4; first edition (Treatise 1:4) (A.D. 251)]. These few topics (but a glimpse) were not only discussed but settled BEFORE Rome adopted Christianity (The Catholic Church) and eventually became The Roman Catholic Church as it also adopted its name after 313 A.D. Is the Catholic Church Jesus’ original church❓Yes❗️ Does this excuse all its mistakes and sins from the record❓Of course not❗️As Christians, we are called to hold the church accountable, not leave it and let evil flourish within it. How are we called to hold our Christian religion accountable❓ 🕊️”Take heed to yourselves; if your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him;” Luke 17:3 🕊️”Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Look to yourself, lest you too be tempted. Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ. For if any one thinks he is something, when he is nothing, he deceives himself.” Galatians 6:1-3 🕊️”As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear. In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of the elect angels I charge you to keep these rules without favor, doing nothing from partiality.” 1 Timothy 5:20-21 🕊️”For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the Church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. “Drive out the wicked person from among you.” 1 Corinthians 5:12-13 Does anyone within the Christian religion supersede our Father’s words❓ 🕊️“And when they had brought them, they set them before the council. And the high priest questioned them, saying, “We strictly charged you not to teach in this name, yet here you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and you intend to bring this man’s blood upon us.” But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men.” Acts 5:27-29 Are we called to follow the Christian religion blindly❓ 🕊️”Then the disciples came and said to him, “Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this saying?” He answered, “Every plant which my heavenly Father has not planted will be rooted up. Let them alone; they are blind guides. And if a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit.” Matthew 15:12-14 This refusal of accountability within every Christian has led to over 40,000 diferente Christian denominations and the ignorance which has flourished from it. 🕊️”And his gifts were that some should be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ; so that we may no longer be children, tossed back and forth and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the cunning of men, by their craftiness in deceitful wiles. Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ,” Ephesians 4:11-15 We are called by God to unite! What better church to do it under than the one he started.

[@kjhg323]

Another issue with the “you need to appeal to the authority of the Roman Church to establish the authority of Scripture” argument is that it leads to an infinite regress. Okay, if you need an outside authority to establish the authority of scripture, how do you establish the authority of the RCC? Some further authority? That leads to a regress. But if you can establish the authority of the RCC without appealing to outside infallible authority, why can’t you do the same with the canon of scripture?

[@tookie36]

The infinite regress argument doesn’t work bc it stems from God. The difference would be the Catholic Church says god gave Peter authority to loose and bind. It doesn’t work for scripture bc where does it say in scripture that this is true? And what about the centuries without the canon ?

[@lutherserbe6435]

God bless you and thank you for your service! To the point of the removal of the apocrypha by Luther: In the Standard Revised German Editions of the Luther Bible, even the one from 2017 the Apocrypha is still included in a seperate section after the Old Testament, just like the original translation of Luther. The Antilegomena are also ordered in the same way like Luther did.

[@thejerichoconnection3473]

Who gave Luther the authority to strip out and segregate those books in an appendix? Would you grant me the same authority today to move around books I may not consider as authoritative and segregate them in appendices as I see fit? If not, why not?

[@TylerC125]

@@thejerichoconnection3473the same authority that the fathers used: they weren’t considered the same level as the protocanon and homolegomena. Numerous fathers (Sts. Athanasius, Hilary, Gregory Nazianzen, Jerome, Cyril of Jerusalem, for example) said the DC was good for reading but not used for doctrine, and that this is the tradition they had passed down to them. The disputed book in the NT were called Antilegomena because some accepted them and others didn’t. Martin Luther was simply separating them due to their historical status as being disputed, which many theologians like Cardinal Cajetan before Trent had believed. It wasn’t as controversial as some think it is today. It’s still used in the liturgies to this day.

[@thejerichoconnection3473]

@@TylerC125 no church father ever stripped out books from the canon that had been defined in the 4th century. Who gave Luther that authority? This narrative that the deuterocanonical books were there “for edification” but nobody really took them seriously is just a caricature of Protestants trying to defend the insanity of a confused monk who thought he had the authority to butcher the Bible (if it were for him he would have even stripped out James and Revelation). The truth is those books were indeed considered authoritative simply because they confirmed the deposit of faith. Once you think those books contradict your novel theology, you need those books out. Can I strip out books today? If not, why not?

[@thejerichoconnection3473]

@@TylerC125 no church father ever stripped out books from the canon that had been defined in the 4th century. Who gave Luther that authority? This narrative that the deuterocanonical books were there “for edification” but nobody really took them seriously is just a caricature of Protestants trying to defend the insanity of a confused monk who thought he had the authority to butcher the Bible (if it were for him he would have even stripped out James and Revelation). The truth is those books were indeed considered authoritative simply because they confirmed the deposit of faith. Once you think those books contradict your novel theology, you need those books out. Can I strip out books today? If not, why not?

[@thejerichoconnection3473]

@@TylerC125 no church father ever stripped out books from the canon that had been defined in the 4th century. Who gave Luther that authority? This narrative that the deuterocanonical books were there “for edification” but nobody really took them seriously is just a caricature of Protestants trying to defend the insanity of a confused monk who thought he had the authority to butcher the Bible (if it were for him he would have even stripped out James and Revelation). The truth is those books were indeed considered authoritative simply because they confirmed the deposit of faith. Once you think those books contradict your novel theology, you need those books out. Can I strip out books today? If not, why not?

[@kylie5741]

Interesting topic, I look forward to watching this

[@thelatineright777]

Dr. Cooper, what is your take on Jesus' acceptance that the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat (Matthew 23:2)?

[@DrJordanBCooper]

Good question. I'll address it in another video.

[@thelatineright777]

@DrJordanBCooper He seems to accept their authority but questions their hypocrisy.

[@macrowatchman]

This is gonna be a good one

[@RemySheppard]

I really like your new Lutheran Cinematic Universe opening

[@julesgomes2922]

Excellent response! And thank you for wearing such an elegant suit and tie. I cringe watching evangelical pastors preach in shorts and T-shirts to a congregation on a Sunday morning.

[@BKNeifert]

You deal with too many smart people. This kind of argument is so common, on a whole host of issues. It's almost the bread and butter of the lay. It reminds me of Jack O'Neill shooting replicators and it working, because the Asgard were just too advanced to use projectile weapons.

[@kensmith8152]

The bible should always be the foundation for our faith. The Magisterium is no better than making it up as they went along! Sola Scriptura!

[@tonyfisher9961]

I doubt that there is a Christian alive who believes what the Bible says from reading the Bible alone. Everyone has been told by some other Christian what any particular verse is saying. This is how we get different camps. Even the smartest theologians started from getting their ideas from someone else.

[@kensmith8152]

@: Yes, while I would agree with you, the Bible does state that it is not of one private interpretation, but we are told to study it to see if it’s true. But having the proper hermeneutics is important, we need to allow the Bible to interpret itself. There is a continuity of subjects that are shown for our understanding, and they go against most Christian churches traditions! For example I’m a Seventh day Adventist and it’s very clear that much of the biblical teachings of modern day Protestant churches have been heavily influenced by the traditions of the Catholic Church, as: keeping Sunday as the sabbath; going to heaven or hell after death; the immortal soul (Neoplatonism) etc. There are so many contradictions of the church’s teachings and an honest reading of the scriptures such as: Repetitious prayer; papal infallibility; worship of statues and saints; the selling of indulgences etc. The RCC has controlled the religious narrative for so long, people just accept them as fact!

[@tonyfisher9961]

@ thank you for admitting that Bible alone is false. Don’t misunderstand, even though it’s false that doesn’t mean that we don’t get most of our stuff out of the Bible, or at least the Bible supports what we are saying. You spoke of hermeneutics. I agree that you must use harmeneutics, but guess what, the harmeneutics that you use are taught to you by whoever it is you’re talking to about the Bible. It’s the same way with context. Also, thank you for saying that most Christians get their teachings from the Catholic Church. I agree. Now let’s get to the meat. Saturday remains the Sabbath day. Christians are not held to the Sabbath. Christians celebrate the Lord’s day on Sunday. It’s true that you should take a day off if you can. But Jesus says that Sabbath is made for a man not the other way around. Paul says hold no one to Sabbath days. This is in the Bible. How you understand it is taught to you. After death we get our just rewards. Did you know the Bible has nothing against repetitious prayer. It actually has something against praying just to look good for yourself. The vein prayers. You were taught that repetition was bad but you’ve been lied to. Let’s have a word about papal infallibility. In the Bible, we are never told that the Bible is our ultimate authority. Is useful for sure and we use it all the time. But as soon as somebody reads it, their own ideas enter into the mix. Sometimes false ones that they’ve been taught by others. Sometimes correct ones taught by others. The question is, how do you know which is which. Jesus himself gave his disciples authority. Nowhere is that authority given to the book of the Bible. It is passed down to men through apostolic succession. You say there is worship of statues. I’ve never actually seen that. I don’t worship statues. If someone’s worshiping a statue, it is wrong. Same with the Saints. As far as indulgences being sold. If it acutely happened it was wrong. If it happened, it no longer is being done. Would you not allow us to fix mistakes? Someone should guide Christians. If it’s the Bible, it’s missing some clairity. So many people claim to have the Holy Spirit guiding them but have different interpretations. Why? You are saying a lot of false things that people have taught you.

[@konnerswan6135]

37:22 I had a Orthodox Christain friend tell me once when i checked out their service that I finally saw where the bible came from. I think thats a feature of the "on true church" Church's.

[@protestant77]

GOD says keep Sabbath holy. POPE says keep Sunday holy. ☝️WHO DO YOU 🫵 OBEY???

[@joshuamerkle4444]

@@protestant77collossians 2:16-17 “So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.” ‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2‬:‭16‬-‭17‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

[@protestant77]

@ Colossians 2:16 EXPLAINED!!! To understand Colossians 2:16, I think we should first get a little more context on the verse. Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; Colossians 2:14 speaks of: -Handwriting -Ordinances -Contrary & Against us!!! 👆🏽This sure doesn’t sound like God’s Ten Commandments written on stone tablets with the Finger of GOD! God’s Law is PERFECT!!! 👉(Psalm 19:7) God’s Law is forever! 👉(Luke 16:17) The 10 Commandments is NEVER referred to as “ordinances” in the Holy Bible! The Law of Moses 👉was written with HANDWRITING! 👉did contain ORDINANCES! 👉 was CONTRARY & AGAINST us!!! 👆🏽This was just for a little more context (Colossians 2:16 😃Great question! ) There's TWO different Sabbaths in the Holy Bible. 1) The WEEKLY 7th day sabbath Established at creation (Genesis 2:2,3) Commanded in God's Law(Exo.20:8-11) An eternal law for all mankind! 2) The 7 ANNUAL feast sabbaths Found in the "Law of Moses" (Leviticus Ch.23) a temporary law commanded for ancient Israel. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moons, or of the sabbath days. ~ Colossians 2:16 ▪️MEAT = Sacrificing animals ▪️DRINK = Drink offerings ▪️HOLYDAY = feast days were also called "holyday" ▪️NEW MOONS = the feast days fell according to the new moons cycle. ▪️SABBATHS = the feast days were also called "sabbaths" regardless of the day of the week it might have fallen on. (Col.2:16) is obviously speaking of the "Feast Sabbaths" found in the: 👉Law of Moses. Now if a "Feast Sabbath" happen to fall on the "Weekly Sabbath" then this was called a: HIGH SABBATH! 👉(John 19:31) For more info on the feast sabbaths READ 👉(Leviticus Ch.23) I pray this sheds more light on this verse, please let me know your thoughts? 🙏🏽God bless you

[@jimmu2008]

​@@protestant77 2 Corinthians 3 7 "Now if the ministry of death, *_carved in letters on stone,_* came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses’ face because of its glory, *_which was being brought to an end,_* 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit have even more glory? 9 For if there was glory in the ministry of condemnation, the ministry of righteousness must far exceed it in glory. 10 Indeed, in this case, *_what once had glory has come to have no glory at all,_* because of the glory that surpasses it. 11 For if *_what was being brought to an end_* came with glory, much more will what is permanent have glory." He's talking about the covenant of the Ten Commandments coming to an end and being replaced with something greater.

[@jeffryan5302]

I’m a Reformed Calvinist always watching, learning on JBC YT channel ( with some exceptions) 👍🏼; unfortunately many Lutheran churches offer membership classes that may last only an hour or so with a later formal membership induction during church worship; vs a Roman Catholic Church membership catechism that may take up to 1 year; or a Jehovahs ( false) witnesses that may take 6mo’s of teaching doctrines to become a baptized JW ! 🤔?

[@claybody]

“See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. […] Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. […] Whatsoever [the bishop] shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid.” (St. Ignatius: Letter to the Smyrnaeans; Ch 8) . Ignatius was a disciple of the Apostle John. He wrote this on his way to martyrdom in 107 AD.

[@LXX-Mercedes]

He refers to the local churches and bishops, so?

[@mwdiers]

Aside from the fact that the Council of Rome was a regional council, there are serious issues with the so-called "Gelasian Decree." First, as you say, we know very little about the council because no proceedings other than the decree, have survived. The council is generally considered to have been held in 382AD, a century after Gelasius was pope. Second, there is good evidence that the decree as we have it from the 4th century is not even legitimately from the council in the first place In various copies, it is attributed to three different "popes": Gelasius, Damasus, and Hormisdas. Some copies are anonymous. There are also two substantially different versions of the decree, namely the Damasine and Gelasian recessions. The Gelasian recession does not even mention the Council of Rome, nor of Damasus who would have been pope at the time, and is written as if it were an independent decree of Gelasius, even though it is clearly the last three chapters of the longer Damasine recession. Then there are other problems. The longer Damasine recession quotes Augustine, who was not even alive at the time, placing the document at minimum over a hundred years later. Textual evidence points in the direction of the Gelasian recession being a condensation of the Damasine recession which was falsely attributed to Gelasius in the 6th century. The earliest manuscripts of the Damasine recession come from the 8th and 9th century, Then there is Jerome. He mentions the council in passing, but gives no details on it whatsoever. It strains credulity that Jerome would fail to mention that said council made a decree concerning the canon, given that the question of the canonicity of the Deuterocanon was very important to Jerome. Later the Council of Florence also mentions the 73 books, but NOT in a decree. So even the regional councils are of no help to Rome, and the fact remains that the canonicity of the Apocrypha was an open question all the way to Trent. As noted, there were widely differing opinions on the canon all throughout Church history. There was no consensus of the fathers. To appeal to the tradition of the fathers is fruitless for Rome. Thus Rome has no tradition, and no counciliar decress at their disposal. All they have is Trent, where they proceeded to ignore the lack of historical tradition or consensus, make the 72 books binding, and anathematize their own theologians of the present (Cajetan) and the past (and there were MANY of them, all throughout the previous 1500 years).

[@miguelz8721]

Excellent video Dr Cooper

[@joedan5366]

Great job on this

[@elijahkirkpatrick2078]

Do you have any resources or scholarly books on the early church. I’d like to read more into this

[@kengineexpress]

You should do a movie review of the Bonhoeffer movie. I'm curious what you think!

[@rangerswampyclay]

Think it would be really great if you and Fr. Schmitz (or someone similar) had a dialogue about this similar to what you did with Jimmy Eakin a few years back.

[@realbradautry]

I want to begin my comment by saying “thank you, Dr Cooper.” You, outside of my pastors (Frs MacKay & Shultz of Advent Lutheran in Zionsville, IN), have been instrumental in bringing me home to the Lutheran church. (Baptized by my grandfather the late Rev. R. James) On the matter of the canon, a point I find quite troubling & compelling, is that it does seem that Luther in fact removed books based on the tradition of the Council of Rome (382 AD) that was finally re-affirmed in the Council of Trent. How do we deal with that?

[@dodavega]

One Roman claim includes the miracles like the bodies without decay and the Marian visitations. Another is their claim of having lines of succession for the apostolic churches. I would love to see these claims examined in detail.

[@CosmicSeptic1]

“Any doctrine that has no precedent in the history of the church, especially within the church fathers, should be thrown out.” Me: *Looks at the doctrines produced by Luther’s interpretation of Romans*

[@Kerosenetrewthe]

Ask the Australian Lutheran Church what happens when you keep going back to re-evaluate doctrine....

[@matthewbroderick6287]

The first Century Jewish nation, didn't have a closed Canon! "If not for the authority of the Catholic Church, i would not know the Holy Scriptures", ( Saint Augustine). Why listen to fallible and unnecessary Protestant Pastors like Jordan Cooper, when we have the infallible Holy Scriptures then? Can anyone then know with infallible certitude what Jesus Christ meant by "this IS MY BODY ", or who the rock is in Matthew 16, or who the Woman is in Revelation 12 then? The false teachings of Jordan Cooper, have made me a stronger Catholic Christian! Thank you Jordan! Peace always in Jesus Christ our Great and Kind God and Savior, He whose Flesh is true food and Blood true drink!!

[@jarrettalyssaneville1122]

The first step in establishing the Trinity is demonstrating that there is one God

[@TheJoeschmoe777]

Great video. I like Fr Schmitz and he's got some really great content, but it makes me cringe seeing these easily debunked arguments against Protestantism that don't have any weight beyond a surface level. He's not the RCC's best apologist and it shows.

[@mercymercy331]

I come here just to listen to Fr Mike❤ agreat paster not only to Catholics but to o all Christians if you only have ears to hear!

[@ConfessionsofAConvert]

Could you expound on what you are saying around the 27 minute mark? I don't see why someone couldn't use the same argument *today* in regards to the Council of Trent for example? How much time is needed before a truth becomes 'received knowledge' that can be taken for granted? Why would This bind Luther to hold onto Nicea, but not a modern Christian to believe in Lateran IV? Further, I think you take for granted that people accept received knowledge/tradition without trying it when in reality people in modern philosophy and theology do question received narratives. What comes to mind first would be the early days of Barth questioning the conception of analogy, which I think is certainly received knowledge in the sense you provided. Another would be that many Protestants denied/still do deny baptismal regeneration. Once someone starts questioning received knowledge de facto the authority needs to be defended, and it seems to me that this defense of retaining the Ecumenical Councils, and the acknowledgment that much of the Lutheran premises were established by them but without acknowledging their infallibility, ultimately resorts to an ad verecundiam fallacy rather than a true argument. In short, I think your defense of the received knowledge and the authority of the Councils on this basis causes more problems for the defense of the original purpose of the Protestant Reformers than is acknowledged here.

[@calebrohnke2176]

Well I'm not him but I will try to give an answer. In the case of Barth, I don't think dr.Cooper is saying that people can't question these things. you can question anything. there are people who question the existence of other minds or the shape of the earth. The question is, is it reasonable to accept the conclusion of experts who have spent years studying and debating the topic and a clear majority opinion has been formed as prima facie true, until we are given reason to doubt it? I would say yes it is reasonable. I would hope you would too. Now then for the point about the ad verecundiam fallacy. That is only fallacious if used as some kind of deductive proof for the argument ie. "Proposition A is true because this authority said it is". however it is widely agreed to not be fallacious when used as an inductive argument. so one can point to the ecumenical councils as probable evidence for a doctrine but not definitive proof.

[@TheRighteousBeggar]

I kinda feel like this is a low hanging fruit for someone of your knowledge. I don't think Father Mike is low hanging fruit but the audience he is addressing in this video seems to be uninformed protestants who say things like "Where is that in the bible" to every Catholic or Orthodox claim that was developed by tradition in some form, which is a very very real group of people, as I just had this exact type of interaction yesterday with my Evangelical pastor and professor as I explore different aspects and traditions of Christianity. This type of objection is very common at my "Bible believing church," common in most of my family members, common amongst most of my peers, and used to be commonplace for me. Father Mike is addressing those people, not someone of your understanding or your peers who clearly do not think that is a proper argument. You are fair, reasonable and have done your research, the people that say this kind of thing are typically not informed about Catholic or Orthodox teaching which is what he is trying to expose them to. It doesn't even seem like he is trying to make an argument from his original video but rather explaining the reasoning for the Catholic position of "Bible and tradition", he says "This isn't meant to be combative. This is just going to be an explanation," right at the start of the video. I feel going so hard at a video that is intended for an uniformed audience of Christians that think they dunk on Catholics by saying "Where is that in bible?" or think Catholics just pull things out of thin air, which again, is extremely common place in Evangelical circles, when you are as informed as you are is just unnecessary. I can understand your desire to educate people on why you disagree with the Catholic churches claims about magisterial authority. However, making a 1 hour response to a 12 minute video that is not intended for an audience like yours or you and arguing like the type of objections he experiences are not common place just seems odd to me since it is probably the #1 argument a whole denomination of Christians use. He is clearly just explaining the Catholic reasoning and offering food for thought to those people who literally know nothing about Catholicism. I don't mean anything rude by this just a thoughtful critique that may be wrong, unnecessary, or both, I don't know. Just rubbed me the wrong way. I hope God blesses you and that you continue to share the faith and educate people as you have done for me and I am sure so many others!

[@DerrickS-fx6mx]

The Trinity is so easy to explain , but in just a few mins he realises his mistake and is searching for words... Try explaining it to a Unitarian.

[@Hafstrom1845]

To be fair to the Catholics, you see the comment “purgatory is not in the bible” or “the word purgatory is not in the bible”, in the comment section on every other video from a Catholic youtuber. So even though it’s a silly comment in relation to sola scriptura, I understand that they discuss it, since it’s a comment protestants throw at them often. (although I’m suspecting it’s mainly non-denominational and pentecostals responsible)

[@OMNIBUBB]

There’s that midnight video upload 😮

[@BickA-c8o]

Can I be a Christian even though I do not believe in the Trinity as proclaimed at the Council of Nicaea and further at the Council of Constantinople? If you answer no, which I would, you automatically believe in infallible procalamations of the Church. If you answer yes to this question, the problem for me seems to be that there is no limit or definition of what a Christian must believe, because there is no entity that can enforce it. Everyone can simply interpret what they want out of the Bible. This is Protestant reality and shows that Sola Scriptura = Solo Scriptura.

[@doubtingthomas9117]

Could one be a Christian before the specific promulgations of the Council of Nicaea? If so, there’s your answer.

[@guilhermeioshuabelmont7326]

He responded to your exact claim in the epistemological section about accepting what was taught authoritatively by our ancestors in faith and knowledge without them having to be infallible.

[@protestant77]

GOD says keep Sabbath holy. POPE says keep Sunday holy. ☝️WHO DO YOU 🫵 OBEY???

[@protestant77]

The word “Trinity” is unbiblical

[@protestant77]

@@doubtingthomas9117 Father, Son, HolySpirit = Godhead

[@tookie36]

44:10 he didn’t get rid of the deuterocanonical texts… he just did a thing and now today they are gone. Totally different

[@paulgrassart8935]

As far as I know, Fr Mike is not debating with protestant theologians. He is not an apologist, but a pastor talking to his flock. He is speaking to catholic youth who hear a lot of things. His videos are usually akin to homelies *, and more generaly catechism for young adults, not theological treaties. His doctrine is good, but it does not have the precision of a medieval theological disputatio. * (but not precisely homilies, because homilies are part of liturgy, and KZbin is not liturgy, and there is a huge difference there, sadly frequently underestimated or even completely ignored) Other commentators have adressed the factuality of the "word not in the Bible" argument. I have myself been exposed to it. It is quite silly to a trained theologian (including real evangelical theologians), but a lot of ignorant people think they are clever theologians because they have followed 2 years of Sunday School (it happens amongst catholics too... They've been to catechism for years, from 7yo to 11yo, and thus they know everything about the faith, as well as people who have studied theology for 10 years at University, been professional theologians and pastors for 50 years and wrote several books). But I would say that the idea that Catholics are faith bound by something the Pope said because the Pope said it is quite a strawman too. That is not at all how papal infaillibility works, it is not how the Assumption of Mary dogma was proclaimed. You need to study and understand the concept of Sensus Fidei Fidelium, and also the nature of the ministerial hierarchy in the communion of the Church. All of this is deeply rooted in the Bible. The more you understand the Divine economy, the more you understand the role of Peter's chair. But those roots are not as easy as quoting 4 or 5 verses. All Cathiolic theology is rooted in the Bible. But for some dogmas, it is easy to find the roots (which does not mean that it is shallow nor easy to understand). For others, things are way more subtle, and require a deep understanding and "feeling" of the underlying implications, and also a good grasp of the unity of theology, of how everything is linked to everything. Some pieces are on the surface, and thus easy to see. Others are in "underlayers", and you find them by understanding how they link the surface pieces together and keep the whole as a whole. Those are difficult to see and understand. It is not only a conceptual difficulty (that could be solved by adding another academic course, or writing another manual), but an existential difficulty : it needs more experience of the spiritual life. They require more conaturality with eternal life. This is why faith is not only faith in God. As the Nicean creed says, there is also faith in the Church, because you need to trust the Church to live the life that will get you to this deeper undestanding. Saying this leads to many more objections, and thus many more developments, but KZbin comments are not the place to write a whole book of theology...

[@pete3397]

What is interesting is the absolute sway that the "Luther removed books from the Bible" canard has with a large number of the RC pastorate and laity. It's just accepted uncritically and apparently with zero reference to the history of the formation of Luther's German Bible nor with actually examining a copy of said Bible.

[@bradleymarshall5489]

Here we go!

[@guyparker1749]

👏🤝I must say there a space 150-260 yrs of persecution forgotten, part of our confessions and common communion with the Catholic Church, must read the last doc. Of Pope Francis..any other 159 yrs.nd then came the LCMS..😂

[@collin501]

Dr Cooper, in terms of how the church is guided and taught, what are the views on Ephesians 4:10-16? This scripture says God gave teachers until the church would be mature. I assume that hasn’t ended. To your point, not everyone can pick up a Bible and understand everything. We would have some level of trust in God to give us teachers to guide us. But on the other hand, God raised up prophets directly rather than through the priesthood. They had important messages for the congregation. Is there Catholic, orthodox, and different Protestant understandings of this?

[@tonyfisher9961]

I’m in 6 min. Why does every Protestant say where is the word purgatory in the Bible? Are you saying they are wrong for saying that or are you saying that Catholics are wrong for saying where is the trinity to show how that type of question is disingenuous of the Protestants?

[@zrayish5164]

His point is that Protestants do not object to purgatory on the basis of the word not being in the Bible. If a Protestant actually raised this as an objection, it would be a weak & misguided objection that would open their position up to critique such as the question Fr Schmitz raised on the Trinity. Dr Cooper's point is that Protestants do not require something to be explicitly mentioned verbatim in the Bible to be a sound Biblical principal & that their objections to things like purgatory & deeper than just the absence of a word in the text. By reducing (or straw-manning) the position to just saying "purgatory is not in the Bible" it inevitably opens them up to criticism like saying "neither is the word Trinity." This would be a valid response by the Catholics IF that was the basis of the Protestant arguments to purgatory, but that is not the historical objection to purgatory.

[@tonyfisher9961]

@ so your saying he was critiqueing that Protestant argument? If so, probably a smart maneuver.

[@EcclesiaInvicta]

It would be great to have a dialog with him Dr. Cooper! Would Love to see that

[@momoffive5606]

You critique Father Mike for implying that the Trinity is not explicitly defined in the Bible, and then you spend 10 minutes explaining how you can read entire books written by church fathers who use scripture to explain the Trinity and you subsequently discuss the steps necessary to extrapolate the concept of the Trinity from the Bible. That makes no sense. You're proving his point. I'm genuinely trying to listen with an open mind but repeatedly it seems you're putting words in his mouth and/or misrepresenting his points. I do hope this is unintentional.

[@jimmu2008]

I DO hear people say that the word ________ (fill in the blank) is not in the Bible, so it is not biblical. Two such words are Trinity and Christmas.

[@Dilley_G45]

I add some more.... "Electricity" "contemporary worship" "Coffee after service" "altar calls" "Female pastors" "Westminster Confession" etc

[@Dilley_G45]

Trinity = Matthew 28:19. The word trinity is not mentioned...just the trinity itself. Christmas...Romans 14...we have freedom to celebrate Christmas

[@DrJordanBCooper]

@@jimmu2008 bizarre.

[@jimmu2008]

@DrJordanBCooper it is. Some of them have KZbin channels. BTW, I've met Fr. Mike Schmitz. His primary ministry is to Catholic youth, and sometimes, I think, the youth are vulnerable to simplistic arguments that circulate in social media and on school campuses.

[@jimmu2008]

@Dilley_G45 I agree with you. But I have interacted with people who are hell-bent on denying the Trinity or on insisting that Christmas is a pagan holiday. Then there are those who call worship on Sunday "Satan's Sabbath."

[@protestant77]

JESUS said: If ye love ❤️ me keep my commandments ~ John 14:15 🔹THE 10 COMMANDMENTS! 1) Thou shalt not have other god's 2) Thou shalt not make any graven images 3) Thou shalt not take God's name in vain 4) Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. 👉(NOT SUNDAY!) 5) Honor thy father and mother 6) Thou shalt not kill 7) Thou shalt not commit adultery 8) Thou shalt not steal 9) Thou shalt not bear false witness 10) Thou shalt not covet 🙏🏽Please check (Exo.20:3-17)

[@arthurbrugge2457]

Arguing for purgatory because "where in the Bible is the word trinity", is on the same level as radical, nondenom protestants arguing against priesthood or the Catholic church, because you are not supposed to call anyone father. Simply using such an "argument" makes me less attentive to anything else the person might have to say. If you steal talking points from the JW, then I will afford you the same level of trust I have in them.

[@donhaddix3770]

catholic priesthood isn't hint at in the bible

[@mitchellscott1843]

Just a periodic psa: if you omit the word "Roman" prior to saying the word "Catholic" you won't get struck down by lightning.

[@j.g.4942]

Only if Catholic solely refers to the church organised around the Roman bishop, otherwise you'll get confusion every so often. But you're right, God's still protecting us from lightning through St Ann.

[@DrJordanBCooper]

Yeah, but I don't grant that the RCC *is* the Catholic church. To call them that would be to confess something I don't believe.

[@johnsmiff9649]

Watch some of Trent Horn's rebuttal videos for how to structure one of these. This is a mess. You're pausing after Fr. Schmitz says 3-5 words and then speaking for minutes. It's a mess

[@watsonblack7481]

He debated a recording of someone 😂

[@americanslav9694]

Responding to, not debating

[@protestant77]

JESUS said: If ye love ❤️ me keep my commandments ~ John 14:15 🔹THE 10 COMMANDMENTS! 1) Thou shalt not have other god's 2) Thou shalt not make any graven images 3) Thou shalt not take God's name in vain 4) Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. 👉(NOT SUNDAY!) 5) Honor thy father and mother 6) Thou shalt not kill 7) Thou shalt not commit adultery 8) Thou shalt not steal 9) Thou shalt not bear false witness 10) Thou shalt not covet 🙏🏽Please check this with any HOLY BIBLE! 👉🏼(Exodus 20:3-17)

[@pete3397]

Welcome to the era of modern technology😉. It's like somebody doing a long form book review and essay, like what you would find in an issue of The New Criterion.