A Lesson In ACC Officiating - ACC Tournament Edition

[@MAEUNC]

@Badinboarder87 man you have bumped your head. BBALL during Elmores day was awesome. The Heels has Phil Ford, Walter Davis, John Keuster, Tommy Lagarde. Some of the best to ever pass through the ACC. Both calls were obvious blocks.

[@ncsuche]

NCAA Rulebook (2012), Rule 4, section 74, Art. 1, part e): The offensive player, whether on the playing court or airborne, shall not “clear out” or cause contact that is not incidental. Marshall didn't commit a charge, but he most certainly dropped his shoulder and cleared the defender out. When the offensive player drops a shoulder, this foul is usually called, and should have been called on Mr. Marshall.

[@unifynormal]

Anyone saying AJ was "not set" does not know the rule. Once a defensive player has established legal guarding position, he can move laterally.

[@basebalplayer77]

One thing about the first call, it was made by the ref closest to mid-court and the ref right next to the play didn't do anything. The bald ref, same one with the best angle at the no-call.

[@basebalplayer77]

The no call isn't about the defensive player being set. Its about the offensive player lowering his shoulder into the defender. Thats an offensive foul.

[@MAEUNC]

The plays were very similiar and NEITHER was a charge. For it to be a charge the defender has to be in his defensive position first. In both cases the defender was trying to get in that defensive position. It was blocking in both cases.

[@danimalfurry]

I like how UNC fans have never seen a problem with ACC officiating... until they they play Duke.

[@Spartanman989]

Just saying that as a referee myself this was an incorrect call. The first play should have been a block on UNC because the defender created the contact by going into the Leslie but could still be seen as a charge(I disagree but it was close). The second play was not close. It should have been a charge because by rule once a player has legal guarding position(two feet set and facing the offensive player) he can move sideways and backwards and if the offensive player creates the contact charge.

[@MosDaf]

Very close, and I disagreed with the foul against CJL when it happened. But this video shows that there IS a difference in the plays. On the first play, CJL changes direction and drives directly into Watts. The State defender, however, converges on the same spot as Marshall and seems to try to slide in. In neither case does the defender have his feet set. No call seems right on the Marshall drive. I can't tell on CJL's.

[@TheSireverard]

@MosDaf , Each time the ball carrier struck the defender with their upper arm. Either they're both a no call or their both a charge. (Or they're both a block). Personally I think a no call is worse than anything. If there's a collision with the ball handler and someone is knocked down (not flopping), it's either a block or a charge. Period.

[@rhvids101]

They were calling charges and blocks left and right though. Little touch fouls everywhere too.

[@jeick]

@Brewerintheair The State defensive player did not have his shoulders squared to Marshall when contact occurred. If you look at still photos from this particular play, the State player also puts out his right leg to try and draw contact. Marshall is entitled to that particular spot on the court, ergo it should have been a defensive foul.

[@dweedle]

Who thinks the calls would have been reversed had the jerseys been reversed

[@xfc04]

Leslie's call could have gone either way. As a UNC fan, I admit it. However, Kendall's was not a charge. Look closely- Leslie continues to drive and pushes with his shoulder, he kept going for the layup and pushed Watts. Kendall on the other hand, stopped to get set for the jump shot. State's defender, unlike Watts, wasn't 'pushed' in the follow through. Had Kendall kept going for the layup, it would have been a charge. But State totally flopped. At any rate officiating was terrible on both ends

[@tay44brass]

@jeick If you watch the video again the unc player did not have his shoulders squared either and how can the ref who called the charge see leslie supposedly drop his shoulder when the other ref was staring right at it and called nothing?. Even if marshall didnt lower his shoulder he still jumped into johnson. you dont swallow your whistle when a player jumps into another one and knocks him down and im not even a state fan.

[@unifynormal]

@gbdaniels11 A defensive player does not have to be stationary to take a charge…. he simply must have established a legal guarding position. The defense can move backward and sideways. AJ established LGP at 25 sec, both feet on the floor, facing Marshall, then moved laterally until contact at 29 when Marshall leaned in.

[@TimKaiser22]

By the way Logan, Nice Vid man. You're definitely the best at making these even though they're all for State unfortunately haha. Representing MoCo well my friend. #13inaRow

[@tay44brass]

How does one ref behind the play call a charge and one ref right in front of the play call nothing?

[@mungostjohn]

Len Elmore's anti-UNC bias is why I watched it on the other channel. He "didn't know about" the CJ Leslie charge which was so obvious but went crazy over the other non-call. If he was not anti-UNC, he would have called both charges. Anyway, both looked like charges to me.

[@fultzey]

That commentator is triggered

[@jeick]

CJ lowered his shoulder like a full back and plowed into Watts. Kendall did no such thing. You're right, it shouldn't have been a no-call on State--it should have been an "and-one" for Kendall Marshall.

[@DCAW90]

Dear State Fans, If you didn't throw the ball away with 40 seconds left, that last play probably would not have happened. Meaning the refs did not win the game stat BLEW their chances. They could not even make a big lead when A) Marshall was sitting in the first half with foul trouble, and B) Watts was playing point guard for the first time in his college career for the final 4 minutes. I am not arguing for or against the calls, but to blame that solely the reason for losing is ignorance.

[@AtomicAJ74]

@TiedyeStan Barnes' feet weren't established either, and it was an equivalent amount of contact. You're right, there were bad (terrible) calls both ways. For example, I don't think Zeller should have been called for his fifth foul when he got it. But the timing of the calls and the inconsistency gave the heels an advantage. That's just the way I see it. I also fault the team for making a couple of bone-headed plays when smart offense would have converted points and given them a win.

[@parkerlynne]

@FridayNightDldoFight For every Carolina fan that didn't go to UNC, I know a State fan that didn't go to college at all. UNC '08.

[@matthallgren]

If you think Len Elmore is a "neutral observer," you haven't watched very many of the UNC games he has called this season. Elmore is an ABCer to the nth degree and isn't professional enough to rise above it, nor is he professional enough to not second-guess officiating.

[@Tbone4MrT]

@HeelOfAPirate32 This isn't about the refs calling it tight or loose. They called it tight (high number of fouls). This is about consistency of calls.

[@SupremeAlliedCmdr13]

@gridironstar10 *commentator. and the rule doesnt say you have to have your feet planted - it says you have to establish position. in neither case did either player have his feet planted. if the defender moves to make contact with the offensive player, it is a blocking foul - if the defender makes no move and is run into it is a charge.

[@rhvids101]

Leslie lowered his shoulder, Marshall did not, the State defender didn't have his position set, he was moving sideways. Games are always blamed on the referees, and not the plays that players make to win games, like SCORING POINTS.

[@YankeesFan27Titles]

Its been this way in the ACC for decades, the conference has become a joke...

[@NChuntingvlog]

The one dislike is a Tar Heel fan.......

[@deathwaitsfornoone]

I like your description, you not just whining and complaining that the refs cost the game completly.

[@WillGobleMusic]

Uhhh, Leslie leaned in a lot more than KM. I don't necessarilty think his should have been a charge either. Kendall didn't lower his shoulder, he was straight up for the most part, just moving naturally with the dribble. He stayed stronger, Johnson flopped, game over.

[@gridironstar10]

@gridironstar10 on a serious note, if your feet aren't planted you're changing position correct? your position absolutely can not be "established" if they're not planted. think about it... that would be like saying it's okay to move your pivot foot after you pick up your dribble as long as your "position is established"

[@D2theBrown]

If Mark Gottfried would have gotten T'd up i wouldnt even have been mad about it

[@sgwashere]

No question - Red team had feet set - call a block or charge but call something. Feet were not set on the blue team, no way - Give the Red team 2 points and a FT.

[@MosDaf]

@keithr63 Why? No-call is a time-honored solution on close calls like that. Not every incident will clearly fall into one of the categories *charge* or *block*. Actually, had the refs called blocking, I wouldn't have been surprised; and if they'd have called a charge I wouldn't have been surprised. But no-call is a reasonable and common solution.

[@nbstew]

Marshall definitely lowered his shoulder. C'mon. Watch the video again.

[@EpicObjection7]

Both were definitely blocks. Neither defender had his feet set. The refereeing was terrible for both sides.

[@PoorYorick3]

I didn't watch the game, but just looking at the last no-call, he was clearly not set. That is not a charge...

[@abc420mw]

the refs are very conservative with their whistle's on the final plays of the game, it has been that way for decades. I think during the earlier stages their would have been a whistle blown. For one thing, we all have to agree that this was a very tough call. I would blame it more on the toughness of the defender guarding kendall marshall. The refs' never decide the game! Anyone who has played the game of basketball before, on a competitive level, has heard their coach tell them that

[@Videos4BoyfriendBen]

inconsistent maybe, but i think the last play was called correctly. the state defender could have played better defense and marshall did not charge. the state defender played too close and then tried to flop and draw the charge. risky move when guarding marshall.

[@D2theBrown]

well im a state fan. And i will say this. By us losing that game actually helped us. If we would have won that game, im pretty sure we wouldnt have been a 10 seed, therefore we would have had an entirely different route to the sweet sixteen. Thats not to say that we still wouldnt ahve made it to the sweet 16. But you never knoow

[@cowboyborn]

UNC had the worst calls against them in the first half and Zeller's fifth was bull. I think if you went through that game call by call you would see an even share of bad calls. Not all UNC fans blame the refs. Other ACC team fans always say the UNC fans always cry about the refs, I see a lot of State fans crying now. Maybe State should blame the junior high turnovers they made in the end.

[@gridironstar10]

@lboogee311 they do if you want to get a charge called for you

[@abayard11]

These are both the exact same play in my eyes. Both defenders did not have their feet planted and both offenders had control. State definitely had their feet planted a lot more so than carolina though. State got robbed, plain and simple.

[@ALGolfer29]

The UNC games pissed me off, Same with the Duke game..

[@WillGobleMusic]

In fact, the video shows Watts beating Leslie to the spot, and Leslie leaning way in, so much so that he was out of control on his jump. I don't follow, actually?

[@iWorldWarIII]

Who cares if they get conservative. They should call all 40 minutes of the game. Not just 35 minutes. We all saw in the NCAA Tournament how BAD the refs were in the ACC. UNC didn't get the flop calls, Duke coach K didn't intimidate the refs by cussing at them.

[@TheEliteiPhone]

We were cheated out of another game. The Cardiac Pack will pull through in the NCAA tournament!

[@PrestonAWaller]

Want to talk about calls? In that game UNC had 23 fouls NC State had 19. Next excuse please....

[@TimKaiser22]

Neither were charges. Neither player beat the ball handler to the spot and had their feet planted. Block Acceptable No Call fine too. They both flopped

[@SupremeAlliedCmdr13]

@xfc04 it was a flop, but it would have been a call had the flopper been wearing white and blue.

[@McCall72]

Such is life in the ACC for teams that don't wear blue. Not surprising when the guy signing the referee's game checks (Swofford) is the former UNC ch AD. Conflict of interest anyone?

[@kandwofzebulon]

If someone drives there shoulder in like that 99% of the time there going to call the charge but Roy slipped the ref a hundred dollar bill so they wouldnt call that call, carolina was in the favorite State should of won that game!

[@branchquirk5482]

the ACC is going no where with this crappy reffing

[@a-jjjjjjj]

@PoorYorick3 his feet were on the ground and he was in legal defensive position. charge

[@andan04]

I'm intrigued by the "ACC lesson" videos linked to the right, but frankly I'm scared to click on one, for fear I'll end up on some government watch list. And both calls were absolutely terrible.

[@jbrock07]

We also could of won the ACC tournament

[@hctimo787]

Disliking video only because the calls in this game, and other games late in the tournament, were absolutely horrible for both teams - not just the team I pull for. The refs were simply horrific for EVERYONE.

[@drfroglegs]

@PoorYorick3 You right, red jersey foul... Blue jersey no foul... That's the same logic refs have always used in ACC... You saw how fast they got Leslie out of the game didn't you.. 8 min left he's gone, that's good officiating...

[@drfroglegs]

What do UNC and State fans have in common? Neither went to UNC... NCSU '11 & '13!!!!! Pack got robbed and to say anything other would be to disagree with EVERY ESPN commentator (which certainly knows more than any of us)...

[@WillGobleMusic]

ANd yea, Watts flopped too.

[@taibot77]

i'm a UNC fan. this isn't right.

[@jasonwhij1]

This is for the NC State fans, UNC beat you twice by a decent margin twice in the regular season right? Next you lost on a questionable call in the ACC tournament, which I agree with( as a UNC fan). Finally you got a NCAA tourney bid and made it to the sweet sixteen, ( where you lost!) So how is your failure UNC's fault? Please respond with some reasonable comments, I know it's hard but please make an effort.

[@christiandpage]

ncsu01, can you take the replays of the two situations that are the same camera angle and play them side by side? I think that, especially in slow motion, would show how cheated nc state was!

[@BrewerlnTheair]

@jeick If you take another look, Marshall plowed his whole body into CJ Williams...

[@YoungHamp1]

officiating is bad in most games, the refs blew calls on both sides...Get over it people, it happens in all sports

[@Birdnals5]

@danimalfurry Why would State ever go to the SEC? Our basketball team would be alright but I don't want to sacrifice our football team to Alabama, Georgia, LSU, etc. Plus, it would be seen as a HUGE win for UNC. I don't want to give those bastards the satisfaction of us leaving the ACC.

[@dmccalldds]

@lboogee311 The ballhandler has the right to the direct path to the basket unless previously occupied by a defender.

[@CharColeGaming]

@keithr63 that's exactly what i'm thinking. Call something!

[@ikaZi84]

@hoopla1414 Uh, he pushed off with his left leg to embellish the flop, brah.

[@papadingle]

Roy paid em good

[@DCAW90]

@KidzVEVO well then its funny that I heard more people blaming the refs the past week, videos like these only help my point. I didn't see any one talk about how Wood was a no show again, and stuff like that. So no its not idiotic to think that when I see videos like these, or people talking about the calls over the play of the game.

[@TheSireverard]

@TheSireverard and yes I know their from my they're. Ugh. no edit function.

[@DCAW90]

@rednight525 you guys do have a good class, but if you actually looked stuff up you would see that Carolinas class is ranked 5th and State's is 7th. Carolina even has the potential to get the #1 recruit according to espn. So I say we have more, besides it takes more than 1 top class to overthrow carolina basketball.

[@SupremeAlliedCmdr13]

@lboogee311 which in the second case is exactly what happened....

[@TimKaiser22]

@NCSU187 Digger is on my side. That's good enough for me haha. And the rule isn't just if you lower the shoulder if your feet arent set no ref in any game in the world gives a shit. Block/ No Call every fuckin time if the feet arent set. Never Fails.

[@MrMseals]

charge...and ima tar heel fan

[@zacharymatthews7206]

how's that working out for ya? Pretty disappointing season considering they were picked to win the ACC and are an 8 seed in the tournament currently losing to Temple by 13

[@dmccalldds]

@dmccalldds (BTW, the Leslie charge call was terrible)

[@intwtf]

Heck people could do it both ways...NCST got call most of the day that should of been NO CALLS...heck even the guys on tv said... The call should of went the other way on the one of them the NCST got were you could see the NCST play pushed off and they called the foul on the UNC guy....... one no call doesn't make a game...waaaaaaaaa.. big baby...

[@ThatEflatGuy]

hahahaha this is amazing! nice work

[@ANM1701]

And yet your refs did that to dukecongratulations

[@GeniusesneedLOVEtoo]

Lol not at all. We don't have refs.. all the refs hate us have you not heard? We boo them louder than we boo the opposing team

[@katieandbrandont]

That game stunk!!!!! The refs wer so horrible and that is the reason nc state lost BOO REFS!!

[@Philipcnowak]

state got robbed

[@ncsu1]

@DavidMBowen5 go on...

[@barcalonasucks16]

@D2theBrown that would have mad our road easier silly

[@happymand]

@btosky You need to learn the rules of the game buddy. And how in the hell can u say Johnson got beat? Are you kidding me? You don't even know the name of the players involved in the situation. If you think the fact that Marshall took a jump shot has any significance to a charge and/or block call, then you obviously just don't know the rules of the game.

[@willwhite007]

Lol, great video.....

[@clintonsoccer16]

Horrible ACC reffs

[@SupremeAlliedCmdr13]

@gridironstar10 lol

[@WhitePigeon1986]

Lolz it's NC State. You've been irrelevant my entire lifetime (since 86). I agree though, should have been a charge on the Heels, but still, it's NC State.

[@NCSU187]

@tkaiser22 If a player lowers his sholder and knocks a defender on the floor its a charge bro.... dont take it from me take it from all the experts on sportscenter who are saying it

[@NCSU187]

@tkaiser22 Well it doesnt really matter now the game is over lol.... But i gurantee you you flip that situation the charge is called on state.....

[@unifynormal]

@rhvids101 A defensive player does not have to be stationary to take a charge…. he simply must have established a legal guarding position. The defense can move backward and sideways. AJ established LGP at 25 sec, both feet on the floor, facing Marshall, then moved laterally until contact at 29 when Marshall leaned in.