A mid-air collision at Centennial Airport & everyone survives! ATC Communication!

[@captainkhan2352]

Goodness. I'm glad everyone survived. Thank's for sharing...!!

[@FlyingDirty]

Absolutely and it was my pleasure! Stay safe!

[@michaelj.mcmurray540]

So glad everyone survived.

[@FlyingDirty]

That was a miraculous landing for the Metroliner.

[@GLICKMIRE]

The Cirrus, making a right turn to final, would have his view of the Metroliner blocked by the left wing.

[@FlyingDirty]

Great observation but he should have controlled the turn as to not interfere with the path of the parallel active runway. In the air, the path is an extension of the runway, The high speeds the Cirrus was making the turn at, however, will significantly increase the turn radius causing a much wider turn.

[@GLICKMIRE]

@@FlyingDirty You are absolutely correct. There is no excuse for the overshoot.

[@AaronGrijalva]

Yes, scary to see this at home and to a friend. It’s a congested airport and seems like there’s always traffic on the parallel. No more square turns to final for me with parallels.

[@FlyingDirty]

Hi Aaron! Know you wind direction and control the speed. You can't make a tight turn going 192 MPH! Glad they all walked away!

[@orlandoabreus2596]

Thank you for the class with backcountrypilot! Double what it should be which would increase his turn radius 4 times. More than that it would seem he wasn't set up and prepared for landing and was behind the airplane.

[@orlandoabreus2596]

I am doing my ground school now. Thank you.

[@FlyingDirty]

Hello Orlando! You are absolutely correct! He overshot the runway by increasing his turn radius. That does also clearly suggest that he was not set up for landing as you should start preparing for while on the downwind. If those speeds prove to be correct then that was poor very judgement and reckless. Congratulations on your ground school progress my friend!

[@brucecuratola6389]

Assume the SR -22 was not flyable after the collision. He was well above the 500 foot min to fire the chute. There are over 6,000 SR-22’s flying now. Please consider the fleet size when we hear of an incident involving a Cirrus.

[@FlyingDirty]

Hi Bruce, the Cirrus was totaled and that parachute saved them. However, I am not sure how considering fleet size would be of any relative use. The same can be said for the SWEARINGEN. The fleet sizes are not behind the controls that cause a mid-air collision. In this case, the mid-air collision just so happened to involve a SWEARINGEN and a CIRRUS.

[@jalensi1978]

Great job Raul! What was the Cirrus' altitude turning final, was he descending to get that speed increase?

[@FlyingDirty]

Hi Jared and thank! The altitude seemed to drop 300 feet while in the turn which. I think the speed increase was more relating to the winds as you turn. He was already clocking 165 which would have already been extremely high to begin with while in the pattern.

[@backcountrypilot911]

Seems like his approach speed was about double what it should be which would increase his turn radius 4 times. More than that it would seem he wasn't set up and prepared for landing and was behind the airplane. Lots of compounding problems. Blew me away the metro liner pilot thought he lost an engine but it makes sense. A big bang and yaw to the right I'm sure! Its a miracle that tail stayed on. Probably lucky he was on final and already configured for landing. I don't know how much maneuvering that aircraft would put up with. Metro liner pilot was cool and calm. I'm thankful everyone was OK!

[@FlyingDirty]

My thoughts exactly. According to the data, he seemed to be Flying cruising speeds in the pattern.

[@N370S]

The rules are clear in 14 CFR 91.113, AIM 5-5-12 and FAA Order JO 7110.65, Para 7-2-1: Visual Separation the PIC is responsible for maintaining separation. The pilot of the Cirrus failed to maintain visual separation.

[@FlyingDirty]

Totally agree! ATC did mention the traffic and the Cirrus responded "traffic in sight".

[@alpenglow1235]

There are limitations to “see and avoid”. Those limitations are easily exceeded when the pilot is “behind” the aircraft and distracted by his/her inability to configure the aircraft for landing. Training and the maintenance of proficiency will come to the forefront in this event.

[@FlyingDirty]

Thanks for sharing!

[@chrisc161]

Issue with speed??? No lol absolutely it was the speed.

[@FlyingDirty]

Hi Chris! Not only the speed, but also failing to maintain visual separation, overshooting your turn and interfering with the path of an active runway, and being behind the airplane. This is a very busy airport as I have often mentioned in my other videos. So you have to be sharp and focused and very aware of the parallel runways. It will be interesting to see the final outcome of the investigation.

[@hosegooseman5]

A lot of “wrongs” on this one, but to me ATC created the bigger problems. One thing is to shoot instruments approaches on parallel runways so distances and center lines are better maintained and monitor and another to clear multiple aircraft for visual parallel approaches with very little separation. Even when ATC said to the cirrus to not overshoot that seemed like a late warning anyways. Metroliner never got sight of the traffic as indicated by ATC and therefore he was Ok to continue and no fault? The Cirrus was following another traffic that he saw while banked with no way to see the Metro, his fault? If they were never put in that position to begin with, I am pretty sure it was just another normal day. Again, lot’s of wrongs but in my opinion ATC has the biggest fault on this one. Glad everyone gets to tell their side of the story. Saludos !!!

[@FlyingDirty]

Hi Jose, thanks for the thoughts. Being from this airport I'll say that ATC in this case has very little, if anything, to do with this incident. The two parallel runways have good separation and also one is longer than the other. I know this airport and how ATC operates very well. 17R/35L is used for the pattern and 17L/35R for full stop landing traffic. In this case, ATC did their job by informing the Cirrus of his traffic to follow but also the Metroliner on the parallel. Cirrus responded with "traffic insight". In that case, the Cirrus is now responsible to maintain visual separation at all times. However, if he did not see the metroliner then he should have stated I have the Cessna in sight and looking for the metroliner. The ATC then would then delay his clearance and would ask him to extend his downwind. The other issue with the Cirrus was that, he not only failed to keep visual separation, but he also overshot his turn to interfere with the parallel. It is the Pilot's responsibility to not cross into the parallel's path. Furthermore, the Cirrus appeared to be reckless and would have not made that turn flying at cruising speeds while in the pattern. His speeds were 165 on downwind and up to 192 on the base turn. At those speeds his turn would have been wide. Lastly, those speeds prove that the Cirrus was not in landing configuration and was behind the airplane. The only thing I would say about ATC is that they should have told him to reduce his speeds in the pattern. Thanks Jose and I hope this helps clarify some of the issues.

[@hosegooseman5]

@@FlyingDirty Thanks for your input Raul. Definitely I’ll yield to your information since this is your hometown airport with good knowledge of the operations. Hopefully everything gets clarity so other similar issues are avoided and/or never happens. Saludos !!!

[@FlyingDirty]

@@hosegooseman5 Absolutely, but the clarity that I see is not to fly the pattern at cruising speeds. That is reckless and puts lives at risk! Saludos mi amigo and thank you for sharing your thoughts!

[@michaelmchugh3987]

Airport should stop clearing two planes for VFR landings on parallel runway.

[@FlyingDirty]

Hi Michael, thanks for sharing. Being this my home based airport I can tell you that the runways pose no issue. 17L/35R is used for full stop landing traffic and 17R/35L is used for the pattern. Both runways meet the separation guidelines and ATC does not give clearances unless you state that you have the landing traffic in sight. Otherwise, they will have you extend the downwind. The Cirrus did affirm that he had the Metroliner in sight therefore, he got his clearance. But when a pilot is flying recklessly at cruising speeds of up to 192 MPH in the pattern the pilot poses a threat in any given circumstance. This airport is also extremely busy. So by not having both runways active will pose a bigger threat by hovering too many airplanes in such a congested class B umbrella. Thanks for sharing your thoughts Michael!

[@michaelmchugh3987]

Enjoyed your presentation. Thanks for the feedback. Stay safe.

[@FlyingDirty]

@@michaelmchugh3987 I really appreciate it! Thanks and have a great rest of your day my friend!

[@cannon440]

Like many others I believe the Cirrus was at fault (that is why Cirrus has a chute). The controller has fault also: on parallel runways the aircraft should be spaced, NOT NEXT TO EACH OTHER!!!! Flame me or praise me.

[@FlyingDirty]

Really great points! I am not 100% sure of the separation rules of parallel runways regarding ATC but last I had known it also had to do with how close the parallel runways are to each other. At Centennial it is very common to land next to another. ATC, however, is really good about alerting both pilots of each other and to maintain visual separation which the Cirrus responded "traffic in sight". Generally, 17R is used for patter traffic and 17L for landing traffic. But not knowing the ATC rules I'd have to also give the controller a bit of the blame for also not handling the speed of the Cirrus in the pattern.

[@FlyingNDriving]

Don't fly 200mph on a base and you probably won't have problems. Just reads like incredibly poor airmanship on the Cirrus's part

[@ericbeasley4854]

yes normal 90 kias on base, the pilot has some questions to answer.

[@FlyingDirty]

My thoughts exactly! There was a Cessna in front of him that he was supposed to follow and the Cessna was showing 100 MPH. Way more reasonable speeds for the pattern! At those speeds, it also seem to me that he turned much too early for distancing with the 100MPH Cessna.