A New Baseline For Military Strength | Starting Strength Radio Clips

In this clip, Rip lays out his idea for physically stronger men and women of our military.
See episode 4 of Starting Strength Radio here:
• Training The Military ...
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[@Sethrod8]

Woah! Woah! Woah! ... no flutter kicks or mountain climbers? 😵

[@mantexas9033]

2025: all foreign soldiers are 200lbs with a 400 deadlift, 75 second 400m, 12 pullups, 150 press. Meanwhile Union soldiers can run 6 miles.

[@patricioansaldi8021]

@really sore knee that's a good point. We like the idea of strong soldiers but throughout history it was more about being effective while under battlefield duress...which as you stated means lack of sleep and periods of malnutrition combined with incessant physical activity. The Spartans are a great example of this cause we fictionalized them as completely jacked supermen, but what really set them apart as the most elite fighting force was the fact that they had 1)highly advanced and deeply trained fighting tactics and unit cohesion as well as incredible emotional/mental constitution and 2) they could operate just as effectively whether they were near freezing to death or sweating their bladders out in desert warfare. That's why Greek writers also had their own controversies about soldier's body compositions and training, for example the Spartans looked down on Athenian athletes and others cause they thought they ate too much food and didn't practice enough unit tactics and had not the proper background/experience to produce the necessary loyalty and indomitable backbone/spirit required to win drawn out battles and rigorous military campaigns. So basically they were seen as a total waste in terms of potential for martial prowess despite being the fittest and strongest athletes in the world

[@jabberwock14]

When we have to run on foot 6 miles to capture the flag we'll give them a call hahaha

[@GruntProof]

Can't outrun CAS and arty

[@wildlandwildlife5218]

@@GruntProof cant out muscle it either

[@takatsu5]

Rip put some thought into this! Always impressed!

[@TomB1988]

2x bodyweight deadlift is pretty damn good. Maybe not in powerlifting terms but for everyone else. 2x bodyweight deadlift being 'baseline' contradicts most strength standards tables, including your own.

[@MrAzzhloe]

I don't recall a strength standard table created by Rip.

[@MrAzzhloe]

@1 Adam 12 I'm not trying to will anything out of existence. Can you link it?

[@MrAzzhloe]

@1 Adam 12 Thanks.

[@HawaiianBuddy]

This is a marine strength standard not your average 9-5 person's strength standard

[@senselessnothing]

I managed better than a 2x deadlift loitering around in the gym when I was 17 after a few months of lifting. I could probably bench 130 at that point haha

[@dennisbarrett6148]

My experience comes from along time ago, Ft. Fix in 1969, but in the true "basic" training of eight weeks that everyone does there aren't enough hours in the day. The sheer volume of what has to be covered is amazing. They could always find time for the Daily Dozen. It could be done be held in the parking lot with 2 or 3 training companies together in the parking lot at 8: 30 in the evening. You certainly won't get the recovery/ adaptation time you stress in your program. This holds true for AIT. The workload on an 11B is not that of someone learning to fly a drone. I saw a blurb about the USMC concerned about recruiting computer tech types for cyber warfare programs who can't pass or don't give a shit about the fitness aspect of the military.

[@chrishomer]

The British military definitely needs something like this too! Great video

[@jeremyp5210]

You should tell this to the Dept of the Navy. The physical is a joke. I went in with a body weight 185 with a 400 deadlift and 230 bench. Left at 172 lbs and couldn't even deadlift 225 off the floor. I could run though (sarcasm).

[@Fogyt121]

@@PEACE-gc4ip he didn't do anything wrong, he was made to run before peeing, before eating, after eating, before a shit, after a shit, before sleep

[@jeremyp5210]

@@PEACE-gc4ip we weren't exactly strength training. It was more standing and running than anything else. Even pushups. I was also bed ridden for an injury and wisdom tooth removal. Sure I may have done something wrong but it just a circus there is the point.

[@brianc9374]

When I left ft Benning for my unit, I was amazed at how much I couldn't squat LOL. Doing nothing but pushups n running with no recovery for 14 weeks really f'd me up

[@snorlaxcom]

@@brianc9374 and Jeremy P, how you guys get your squats back? my shipping and packing job at Amazon is kicking my ass and squats have taken a nose dive after 3 months. nothing heavy at all at work, but 8+hours of standing and walking has killed my strength. halp!

[@Alex-lu3pn]

@@PEACE-gc4ip yeah, he did something wrong, he trained like a military.

[@normanortiz5208]

this is a workout (specially, a really good baseline) for Jack Ryan "Tom Clancy". this channel is amazing

[@WhoWouldWantThisName]

I applaud this input from Rip and I appreciate all the comments down here regarding current physical training in the US military (or other countries) and I understand that this channel is all about strength training and most here are focused on heavy lifting and not so much on endurance based activities. As a US Army vet (2001-2009) I can attest that while the prescribed testing presented here by Rip sounds good, the fact is there is a valid reason why the military is so much more focused on your endurance (running, etc.) than on how much you can lift or carry. Of everything we ever did the most challenging aspects of my, and most if not all others, experiences were the aerobically taxing things I/we took part in. No matter how much we ran, how much we did other high rep exercises like mountain climbers and hello dolly's, etc., when you just can't stop or slow down you wish you would have done more in training. Very seldom was our anaerobic abilities coming up short. I could always carry what I needed to and so forth. The fact is that, especially in a combat zone but really anywhere, it is your endurance followed by agility that matter the most for a soldier. I know Rip isn't suggesting that they cut back on any of that, but I see a lot of comments stating how much they lost in anaerobic strength due to the change in their training from civilian to military lifestyles. Yes, you could no longer squat as much weight, but what weight you could squat could you squat that weight more times than before? Your conditioning most likely resulted in you having a lot more endurance to do those things for a longer time. That is more relevant in most circumstances a soldier is faced with. All that said, I do agree that more focus on some aerobic aspects and more varied agility based training would be beneficial over running, sit-ups, push-ups, and road marches/runs. I can see why the Rangers wanted to address this and come up with an additional testing to cover these areas as well. I would have liked to see pull-ups and perhaps a fireman carry event added to the APFT or perhaps a supplementary testing, at a minimum. I know the Army has been working on, and maybe they have done it by now, a new Combat Readiness Test, or something to that effect. The Marines did that. They adopted an additional testing on top of the traditional one they had. I agree that a program developed with Rip's assistance and guidance could be really good for all concerned, but not at the cost of the endurance training.

[@patricioansaldi8021]

Yeep

[@M3vilDaygo]

All you did was shows that you lack an understand of how the human body works. Running is a series of sub optimal force production. Increasing ones squat, will increase ones ability to run longer distance. Hence his 400 m dash. A lot of people misunderstand what endurance is. Strength and lactate acid put away is more important for endurance than running.

[@M3vilDaygo]

Think of it this way. If you're 165 lbs and you can squat 300. You're gonna be able to run your ass off. No question about it. It's impossible not do so. Heavy squats will make you a better runner. I think you are confused and are assuming that everyone must be fat or really big to lift heavy. Stronger muscles will easily increase your endurance.

[@M3vilDaygo]

Also, heavy weights increase your agility too. No doubt about it. Heavy weights are some of the best things for your anaerobic training.

[@ML-nj8fq]

@@M3vilDaygoIt doesnt matter if you can run decent because you squat good. As a soldier i need you to build up your feet to withstand hours, miles and days on end of long range foot movements. Squatting does not build your body and specifically your feet for that. Squats and deadlifts might be decent for athletics but the “sport specific” military training is gonna be walking and running a lot of miles. I dont care if you can squat 500 if a 10 miles of backpacking breaks you off.

[@simonsilva250]

hope this type of changes happen in the future

[@mjmeadows1016]

I like the test. Currently a Navy Reservist. Alot may have never seriously lifted or maybe just ran for exercise. With your test have you also included a plan for military to take these recruits through boot camp to be able to hit these base line marks? In listening to you over the years I am sure you already have that piece worked out as well

[@robdixson196]

So true.... All that running did nothing to make it easier to handle 155mm howitzer rounds. That time would have been much better spent in the gym.

[@negatorxx]

Can you do a review of the ACFT (army combat fitness test), and how best to prepare for it?

[@michaelw2263]

This! I'd love to see Rip's opinion.

[@ZZ-cz8zz]

Imagine believing in the year 2022 that anybody in power is interested in the effectiveness of the military personnel.

[@idkisaidit]

Excellent video. Laughed out loud on “miss America shit.”

[@GruntProof]

It's a perpetual battle against institutional inbreeding

[@jasonaffolder6229]

Rip, really like the direction of your proposed test. I’d like to hear your thoughts on if/how this changes as Soldiers age. I’m assuming that your deadlift and press standards are 1RM; knowing Soldiers and their competitive desires, I would recommend a 3 or 5RM to limit injuries when testing on mass scale - maybe a 1.5x or 1.75x BW 3/5RM deadlift and a .5x BW 5RM press. I would also change the 400m to doing it twice; 400m in 80 sec, then 80 sec rest, then another 400m in 80 sec.

[@senselessnothing]

Although I like rip's ideas, there needs to be more cardio testing. Also, no need to take the push up testing out, it's practically the same test as a bench press(r = 87%).

[@brianfrazier5215]

I'd have been 220 and 6'4" I don't think I could've in 1995... Would've definitely had to study for that test

[@ronaldpelley9343]

RIP, this is awesome. I wish this could have been the baseline strength program when I served in the Marine Corps (1979-1992). We need our President to execute an executive order for these standards.

[@blocker1928]

Marine recruits aren't going to gain weight in boot camp because they have to run too much and they don't get much sleep. When I finished boot camp many years ago, I could run a good distance and do a lot of push ups but, I couldn't lift much weight. When I cut back on my running and started lifting weights again, my strength went way up.

[@jabberwock14]

When you test the DL, are you expecting the person(s) judging to disqualify hitches/resting the bar on the thighs? Or by any means necessary? Because that would also add a level of complexity to the test

[@KilliMilliMeter]

I have personal knowledge that strength training with barbells at Army Infantry OSUT began in 2017/8. Not necessarily what RIp advocates nevertheless, doing some type of pushing and pulling exercises.

[@elkhills1]

All this strength training wont leave much time left for sock folding.

[@cro_magnum]

This is it chief

[@jordonlongley5458]

Good standard for the infantry and combat arms, but an unreasonably high standard for non-infantry. This matters because most military personnel have more of a day job and are only lightly trained in combat, and have a reasonable expectation of never seeing combat unless WW3 breaks out. This standard being for the whole military would thin it out dramatically. It would require more incentive to join.

[@JustinColletti]

Jordon Longley True. But seeing the whole military thinn out dramatically seems like more of a feature than a bug to me.

[@WhoWouldWantThisName]

I see both points here. While I do think some changes are in order on APFT and regular PT sessions even, I also agree that there are a lot of really valuable troops that struggle with some aspect of the physical demands. I knew soldiers that suffered from previous injuries or other health matters that resulted in them having a hard time with a certain event in the APFT even though they worked out more than the rest of us. Not everybody is a jock in the military, and frankly I'm thankful for that as most of the qualities and talents that many brought with them to their job was located above their neck not below it. I was certainly more valuable to my unit for what I knew and my problem solving abilities than for what I could physically accomplish with my body. I think the civilian population and Hollywood think of the military as a bunch of young grunt privates that get out after a few years and are there to just do what they're told. Well, somebody has to be figuring out what to tell them to do. Most of us are in a lot longer and those privates become NCO's after a few years. These troops are not easy to replace and are the most valuable asset we have. Making programs and setting standards that just wash out these assets is incredibly short sighted and miss-guided. Any approach to adjusting these things needs to be done in a responsible manner with the understanding that the most valuable troops are going to be among the oldest and most worn or possibly even damaged bodies. Expecting them to meet the same standards as an infantry rifleman just isn't very realistic or even reasonable. Just because they can't pack their buddy and his gear for the next mile doesn't mean they are unfit for service. The US Army's combat arms units train to a higher standard than those minimums set by the Army. Those standards are set like they are because they know that most troops are not in combat arms MOS's. The ratios may be different for the Marines, but when I was in BCT it was estimated that 91% of current US Army soldiers were in non combat arms MOS's. That was pre 9/11, Feb. 2001. That is probably similar to the numbers we have today. I think that is relevant.

[@chuckhardesty]

Strong POGs are better than weak POGs.

[@adamfoster9039]

A 150 OHP and a 400 DL isn't hard. Almost any healthy person should definitely be able to meet this standard.

[@dankdark974]

They shouldnt be in.

[@BigUriel]

I don't think Rip realizes that most military personnel nowadays mostly sit on their ass all day in front of a computer or work in some warehouse, and can do their job just fine without even coming close to these fitness standards. And if you make the case that all these people should still be fit just in case they ever need to see action, don't forget that these standards would mean far fewer soldiers passing the tests and filling up the ranks. There's no point in having great standards to ensure that you only get fit people, but then ending up severely understaffed. Personally I'm all for modern countries having smaller but better military, quality over quantity, but that's not going to fly with the US military which is essentially a massive taxpayer funded employment scheme. This change would mean a lot of useless unproductive young kids in american society with nothing to do and probably getting into all sorts of trouble.

[@daxisperry7644]

I definitely think a Large number of troops would get dropped because of these standards. What I like about that, 1) Less cost to the taxpayer 2) A higher quality servicemember 3) If the standards are higher going in, potential recruits will also have higher standards.

[@takatsu5]

And the Army will start requiring all recruits drink a gallon of milk a day.

[@Whosyourdaddy21]

The argument against this is that one of the most important aspects of an effective army is mobility of deployment. Being strong is great but being able to have soldiers that can move faster and flank enemies is better.

[@superposition9497]

In my opinion, a longer test if endurance is necessary.

[@robertsmith6068]

I agree, nothing can take the place of endurance. We did a 12 mile ruck with 45 lb ruck, LBE and rifle in three hours or less every quarter. Not a great test but pretty good for a baseline.

[@paull9940]

robert smith no you didn’t

[@MrMpwood12]

@@robertsmith6068 I agree with you. I was introduced to Starting Strength as an 18 year old that weighted 135 LBs. I took advantage of the linear progression of a novice lifter, gained 40 LBs and was able to do all the things in his test. I never served in the 75th Ranger Regiment but I did graduate from Ranger School. Having a strong back and legs help make carrying a rucksack all day sub-maximal work but endurance and stamina is what mainly got me through. There’s no way I would’ve finished the 12 mile ruck in 3 hours after being smoked for 3 days if I hadn’t built a strong aerobic base which simply lifting weights doesn’t do. I think stamina is vital to combat readiness. Also, the average recruit off the street is at significant caloric deficit in basic training to be able to go through this linear progression during basic training.

[@tylerscott2116]

Not bad, but high rep calisthenics or PT does have a place in fitness assessment. Completely disregarding a comprehensive calisthenics regimen in a military fitness test is a bad idea. And disregarding endurance running is also a bad idea. They are very accurate tests of fitness and very functional in combat. But, I would say it is smart to incorporate these standards into the old school PT tests. I would even suggest that this program wouldn't just be tests by a combination of both weekly and daily training. Deadlift 2XBW Once a Week- 5X5 Press .75XBW Once a Week-5X5 Daily AM PT: (instead of something like a daily dozen, a minimalist calisthenic circuit) Every Minute On The Minute- 20 Squats, 10 Push Ups, 5 Pull Ups For 60 minutes for a total 1200 Squats, 600 Push Ups, 300 Pull Ups. Daily PM Run: 5 Miles in 40 minutes Once A Week: 400 Meter Sprint 75 Seconds Once A Week: 1 Mile in 7 Minutes Now just 12 pull ups is wild, daily high rep calisthenics with the basics is needed for soldiers. I'd argue even beyond the standard of what is currently utilized. Modern pt is a lot of fluff calisthenics, when you can condense it to the bare bones and focus on higher reps with a more finite exercises selection. Muscle endurance with your own bodyweight at a elite level is definitely needed for a soldier. I can agree with alot of Rips improvements, but high rep calisthenics have there place. And multi distance running training for different types of locomotive conditioning. Again, endurance standards that are general standards of being fit relative to the tests. I added 1 mile and 5 mile runs with the 400 meter sprint. This will create a multidimensional conditioned soldier.

[@alfonsomirandaluna2432]

What number of reps are You considering? Singles, triples, fives?

[@dannyboi472]

Great test. But as a British veteran I met precisely 3 women who could do more than 4 chin ups

[@slaytanic921]

The Marine Corps is shallow. Looking good in uniform is part of it all. I agree with what you are saying. When I was active duty I could not weigh more than 170 pounds. I was always at weight and I couldn’t strength train for fear of going over. I am stronger now than I have ever been and I weigh 210.

[@brianc9374]

Army is the same way. They want thin cut track stars

[@MrDW-ei1fe]

That would make sense Rip and the Marine Corps doesn’t have that virtue

[@RaTekNeek]

Stop making so much sense! The military doesn't operate like that

[@hussainthebane]

Sit ups, running etc isn't intended to make you ripped. It is so you are an obedient mindless workhorse. Physical conditioning is one small aspect, the mental conditioning of "drop down and give me 20" is the major thing. You can't say "overhead press this 60kg bar/135lbs for 12 reps" without risking damaging your limited personnel and it doesn't have the same mental effect.

[@quadplyr13]

I've been afraid to tell why I didnt want to go. Because its astonishing to me to see a 230 lb athlete go away and come back an almost feminine malnourished 175. That's some of that bullshit. Y'all ain't feeding your people. That's some concentration camp shit. Prisoners get more food than you guys do. I'm 238 and just hit a pr of 675 on deadlift. I'm afraid of losing that. Lol

[@quadplyr13]

@@matthewporter1287 Terrible.

[@quadplyr13]

@@matthewporter1287 Pay Louis Simmons to write a strength and conditioning program for the military/ police, and fit first responders. Or hire someone to do a good job.

[@quadplyr13]

@@matthewporter1287 such fuckery. To me weight doesnt matter. I just like a lot of people in the lifting community believe the military, police are the only justifiable groups that should ; even though I as a civilian am still natty, administer legal performance enhancements, monitor the soldiers. Make them stronger, more resilient. If a soldiers family sends armor/gear that's superior, let them use it. Don't confiscate the stuff. 3m ear protection ring a bell. Military is being sued for millions. Thank you for your service, GOD bless you! But I'm sick of seeing my fellow Americans come back with a deficit. Healthy strong people come back looking terrible. That as a fitness enthusiast. Stronger soldiers/people are harder to kill. I know I sound wacko, rabid. But somebody should say something.

[@morojkiller5418]

Rucking is still a very important part of being a soldier. The problem is that to build the endurance to be able to ruck 16 miles in 4 hours would be extremely time-consuming, plus organizing rucks are a hassle and require a lot of equipment and planning. So instead you have your men do runs, which are much faster, easier to plan, and cheaper, this way they can build up the slow-fibers and aerobic system for the long rucks they need to be ready to do in combat. I do agree that a lot more emphasis should be placed on Strength and anaerobic capabilities, but running is still very valuable.

[@tomsnowden6201]

honestly strength and fitness is going to matter very little in modern wars.

[@svmuscle7677]

sounds like something i'd do for fun

[@ucfj]

It doesn't matter what selection process would make sense when the viable recruit pool is so small they already can't satisfy their needs for new recruits with a much easier selection in place

[@Upharius]

It's small because of age and weight limits, in a world where we live well pass 70.

[@stevesedgwick5789]

2 x body mass is a big ask I think, (maybe 1.75) and maybe 10 chin ups would do for a pass. However, your concept is excellent.

[@realfinepork7308]

2xBW deadlift for 1 rep is really not much, a couple of months of serious training at most (unless you're severely obese, of course)

[@obits3]

Real Fine Pork - correct, the deadlift and press standards are 1RM, so they are within reason.

[@sananton2821]

@@realfinepork7308 what if you have really short arms? Deadlifts are too leverage-dependent to be a reliable measure of strength.

[@gumlus1257]

@@sananton2821 You're really exaggerating. Even the best benchers can easily deadlift 2xBW despite having short arms. And they are at an excess bodyweight.

[@gumlus1257]

2xBW is nothing.

[@HAL-dm1eh]

Glad others are speaking about the insanity of the US military. They seem to care more about clean kitchens, bathrooms, bodies, beds and clothes while saying "sir yes sir" to being called a bunch of women, than being able to kill effectively. I would say "it's stupid", but if you read what I just wrote and see the pattern, the pathology is a little disturbing.

[@DarkAngelOfTexas]

The excessive cleaning is to instill discipline because most people who join the military are 18 years old and a lot of those guys could pass as damn near retarded. They need mental training and proper forced cleaning is a quick way to get it. Plus, why hire janitors to clean up after soldiers? Waste of money.

[@chrishomer]

HAL 9000 The 2x bodyweight deadlift would be a great start wouldn’t it

[@WhoWouldWantThisName]

Well, if you don't understand the purpose behind all that cleaning and protocol, etc., than you probably wouldn't figure it out through military service nor could I adequately explain it. It is mostly about professionalism and discipline. It instills mental toughness and a sharp mind as well as teaching you the value of presenting a certain image to others. Some of what may seem like pomp and stance or dog and pony show nonsense actually has a very real purpose and value. For example, in aviation they are really big on your appearance of your uniform. Why? Because if you see a bunch of really sharp, smart, and professional looking people and learn they are the ones maintaining that helo you're getting on you have a lot more confidence in it than if you see a bunch of scroungy slacker looking guys that can't be bothered to even dress themselves right let alone set that torque correctly. If you were at the airport and saw the pilot in the bar drinking with the baggage handlers you probably shouldn't want to get on his plane. The same goes for every position in the military but some are more technical and some are more visible as well. I knew an MP that had to have multiple uniforms ready because if the creases went limp and flat he would have to change mid shift. Now out in the field that doesn't matter but the guard at the gate is representing everybody and better make the post commander proud. I could go on but either this made some sense or if not nothing else I say will likely be any better.

[@bigwilly43729]

The funny thing about the cleaning is that the people that do it the most are the most useless and can't be trusted with more important tasks. If you can't do the simple things, you'll never be able to do the hard things.

[@cooldude70-13]

are you aware that not all basic training is the same length and is occupation specialty dependent? I'm not an expert on all military jobs but for example the army training length period for an infantry soldier comes out to be around 13 weeks. How would you propose that an untrained individual go from not lifting at all to lifting 300-400 lbs in a matter of 13 weeks? Maybe further changes are necessary but until massive changes could be made it would be most effective to have strength training and testing that is practical for all military occupations within the time period they have available in their basic training.

[@lazur1]

If you DID test the squat, what would the baseline weight be?

[@M3vilDaygo]

That's the point of the deadlift. It covers the squat. You're not gonna deadlift 400 and then only squat 200.

[@michaelbrowning4815]

The army's main focus is on sprinting and pushups because being able to sprint from cover to cover and drop down quickly is the things that will keep you from getting shot. Sprints build enough strength for you to squat someone up after you ranger roll them onto you (idk why people are so light when you're only squatting them up from an ass-to-grass position) and improve your cardio greatly (like for the two mile test) and the chest and hip flexor activation in the pushup is all you need to dangle while you reposition your feet for the next squat in a rope climb (idk why rope climbs hit chest so much). In the new combat fitness test they mimic combat tasks (despite being hard to tell) very well to see the effects of training, whereas the older physical fitness test was a more indirect way of seeing the same things. Some lifting and strength focused calisthenics, some long distance cardio, and a lot of sprinting and pushups has made up the army's training for years now. We train how we fight so we'll live and accomplish the mission, maybe lifting is better than calisthenics focused training, but they won't change until they know for certain it's better. Till then it's messed up knees and maybe not as good training to play it safe.

[@jimo9555]

No timed bar-hang test?

[@gunnierunner1]

lol

[@slaytanic921]

Only for the females

[@Tyler-oh6bw]

As great as that sounds, there is more to consider. In basic training, you do not get enough rest to weight train. You will have to adjust the entire system. Would more strength be better, yes, but it will come at a cost.

[@samivey8416]

I've seen too many friends come home from basic hurt from the training that would kill a marathon runner. If they can't fight then they aren't doing what they volunteered for right?

[@FraldinhoBJJ]

Yeah I will say it was stupid . I went in a two sport letterman and the program you do injures you and never lets you recover . You are doing push ups and sit ups to muscle failure , and being smoked all the time for discipline , then two to three times a week you rub 3-4 miles at a faster pace based on your ability level Then they make you march to all the ranges that are a few miles from your barracks. None of this would be that hard at all with the proper amount of food but they like to starve you so you never have the fuel for the stress Rocovery adaptation cycle . They want skinny weak soldiers who can run for a long time lol. I remember being young and as healthy as it gets in army basic training , and by week 5-6 my quads were in perpetual muscle fatigue and never healed . I went to basic training at 12% body fat and 176 lbs and left 7-8% at 174, but I lost probably 5-9lbs of lean muscle too

[@crankymcgee]

Can you imagine how long it would take for an entire command to take the PRT with weightlifting events, where there's only 3 barbells to go around?

[@realpolitik3169]

All combat MOS need to take a barbell Pt test. So just make sure they have access to it. Pogs don't need them.

[@terryobien2028]

I recently watched the Cross Fit Championships. One event had ten lanes. Each lane had 10 barbells successively laid out. I think they went progressively from 110 to 320. That's 100 barbell sets. If Rogue CF can get 100, so can the US military.

[@igaluitchannel6644]

Even the French Foreign Legion only requires 5 pull ups as a preliminary requirement. This is unrealistic. All the constant activity of basic training will not allow the recovery time for this kind of strength training.

[@top-secret996]

The problem is the the Army will not invest in anyone who is remotely certified to administer these tests let alone strength train someone. The Army will trust whatever bubba with stripes is available to explain, demonstrate, and evaluate. Then there is the old guard senior leaders that won't let go of the damn 2 mile run. Until they do that, heavy Soldiers will never have the upper hand on paper and unfortunately what you can do on paper has a lot to do with how you're received.

[@SergioGarcia-bb8mr]

For the deadlift and press, are these 1 rep or 5 reps?

[@TheGreatOldOak]

1

[@SergioGarcia-bb8mr]

I asked because it would be nice to know when I've achieved Mark's "Baseline Strength" here.

[@obits3]

Michael Conley - STANDARDS need concrete definitions dumbass.

[@tgadde]

Assuming that you'd allow a weightlifting belt and wraps for the deadlift and press?

[@deltaraider87]

Only PT belts

[@teuruti55]

I'd say a 1.8 body weight dl would be satisfactory

[@octoberslayer7484]

Swimming has to be similar to your 400m run criteria. What would be equal to that?

[@farhanhussain_]

I really like this test. Simple and effective. Yet covers all the basis. Deadlift and press for strength, chins for strength and muscular endurance, and sprints for cardiovascular fitness. What else one wants? It is also a very effective benchmark as our personal goal as well. At least for me. I also like that RIP has favored the deadlift, despite being a squat fanatic. I would rather go for a full bodyweight press instead of at 75% BW. How about a wall assisted HSPU btw? Almost entire BW is moved. Although a shorter ROM but effectively the same as they teach it in their advanced technique that uses deep laybacks. A case could be made for weighted chins for strength, but BW chins are fine as12 of them still challenge the strength-endurance and, to a certain degree, the cardiovascular fitness.

[@Altoseb]

Body weight press and double body weight DL is woefully imbalanced. RIP is a bit of an autist when it comes to weights in the military and clearly doesn’t appreciate the logistics of training thousands of recruits safely and effectively.

[@MP15aug]

I think that it is reasonable in theory but not so much in application. The average boot camp class in the coast guard, the smallest branch, is 100 for 2 company commanders or instructors. The gym has like two people working with each company in addition. The exercises that you are talking about are not commonly done in schools and with the need for proper technique to avoid injury you would have to teach them individually. This would take a long time and require a lot of people and resources. Strength is important but the military will not invest that much into people just going through basic. For people that go to advance combat training this makes a lot more sense. I would think the standards would have to be different then the ones you listed.

[@sananton2821]

If it can't be applied, then it isn't a good theory! You're dismissing it AS a theory! It hasn't even been applied! So how is it good in theory?

[@terryobien2028]

Coast Guard had gyms? 55 years ago Marine Corps boot camp did everything outside, rain or shine.

[@MP15aug]

@@terryobien2028 I am not surprised that blew your mind. It doesn't take much for Marines.

[@gumlus1257]

These are not complex movements at all.

[@sananton2821]

Require that they BE, not that they "are."

[@tpzlol]

After 6 months of Training 3x a week im Not at 2x bw deadlift. 4pl8 dl is a pretty high "baseline"

[@senselessnothing]

The military isn't for everyone.

[@joshuabriggs7114]

Damn! So much common sense.......

[@premierathletetraining2731]

The current body weight standards seem more logical as a foundation. We know that higher levels of hypertrophy can be obtained with higher volumes which is what the current standards require. Thus establishing the soldiers with more muscle mass and muscular endurance required to eventually have more mass to lift heavier loads once their BW baseline had been established. We also know that aerobic capacity is better obtained as a base energy system for overall health and can better compliment as a baseline standard of fitness prior to moving into anaerobic capacity energy systems. BW exercises can be more easily assessed and performed anywhere with limited equipment as opposed to deadlifting. I’m not opposed to including ups to the regimen that seems reasonable while also being another BW exercise that is easily assessed. However 12 chin ups from a dead hang is probably the 1% mark for females in the world. We see D1 and olympic level female athletes everyday and only a handful can perform 10< chin ups. Also deadlift while is a basic core lift still requires a good amount of technique training to reduce risk of injury, it is an exercise that is very easily miss calculated and has an increased risk to injury when compared to current BW exercises. if deadlift was implemented it is almost certain that there would be an increase in soldiers damaged lumbar spine, as a common mistake is load under a flexed spine. bulging disks, slipped disks etc. purely from soldiers overreaching is a reasonable thing to happen as opposed to a person overreaching doing push ups or sit ups (it simply can’t happen) If deadlift were to be implemented Military would have added expenses of locations and equipment to perform the tests and added expenses of licensed and trained personnel to teach the soldiers. Also added expense of trainers and medics as injuries would be more prevalent with a deadlift. I like your 400 meter sprint, that makes sense and would be a great and easy complement to what is performed now. I would suggest your exercises be implemented as part of soldiers training once they have established BW standards they currently are required to perform.

[@TayLybb]

Good thing we have tanks, so our servicemen don't have to do any long distance cardio.

[@dankdark974]

Fuck off - Sincerely, a Leg

[@machoopichoo2]

Such smart stuff. Like Moneyball, stop the focus on men's asses, selling jeans, etc. Look at the data/facts for truth and forget the personal interpretations. Merit should t***p appearance.

[@bobsacramano2263]

OK, so basically the bare minimum of strength a soldier graduating from boot camp should possess, is the level of strength that would put them in the top .001% of the human population. Oh, and with zero regard for endurance. Sounds reasonable.

[@imapanda2434]

No endurance requirement is crazy, but imo these strength standards are reasonable if you’re training these soldiers hard and effectively for 6 months.

[@neilhampson]

Great in theory. Not so great when you have about 300 people left in your army.

[@sananton2821]

Then it's not great in theory, considering you just dismissed it on entirely theoretical grounds.

[@bigbeefy2332]

I dont know any women who can train to do 12 dead stop chin ups. I'm not making the case that the standard should change, I'm just saying.

[@elendiel]

Yeah, that's a big ask! I know extremely fit females (muay thai fighters, top class powerlifters, strongwomen etc.), and I'm pretty sure none of them them could do 12 chins from a dead hang to chin over bar.

[@seanking6184]

Plenty of women just on KZbin have done 20 strict pull ups

[@senselessnothing]

You could have put the front squat I guess since it's extremely simple

[@BigUriel]

Every other strength video on KZbin is some form of "learn to squat" or "fix your squat". Anyone can "squat", but doing a proper barbell squat safely and effectively is an art form, it's not simple at all. You're certainly not going to get anyone squatting 2x bodyweight by simply telling them "get under that bar and squat up and down", they'll probably make no progress or very quickly end up injured.

[@senselessnothing]

The front squat is much simpler than rippetoe's low back squat. All you need is a few cues and it's done.

[@senselessnothing]

Also remember rip's priorities, a few easy exercises and programming so that anyone can do it, be it a healthy young man or an almost atrophied old woman.

[@samuelhite2887]

albu obscure I know this is an old comment but I agree the front squat would be a very good exercise for displaying lower body strength. What would you personally recommend the percentage of ones body weight be for the front squat standard? Thank you

[@senselessnothing]

@@samuelhite2887 I'd say front squat is a good test for the military fitness standard given the simplicity of performing the movement as rip argued in this video is necessary, something around 1.4x bodyweight front squat would be appropriate for a 2x bodyweight deadlift.

[@jerrycunningham1820]

I agree. Being able to run, and do calisthenics is useless.

[@terryobien2028]

The Viet Cong didn't find running useless.

[@Altoseb]

​@@terryobien2028different military

[@derekrostock1596]

Average kids are so deconditioned it would take months if not years to achieve 2x body weight deadlift. Most can barely squeeze out a passing APFT.

[@LV426Survivor]

2x bodyweight deadlift is pretty achievable even within a novice program. Especially if these are mid puberty, strung out on natural testosterone, males.

[@derekrostock1596]

C Lewis I agree for SF candidates it makes sense but the vast majority wouldn’t come close. Maybe after basic training it would be possible but most entering are in bad shape and would hurt themselves attempting these lifts. Good goals to achieve nonetheless

[@TheGreatOldOak]

Reject the de conditioned useless people.

[@tyrfing777]

I'm pretty close to that now (deadlift 350 lbs x5). I'm currently 54 with a desk job, but I lift 3 times a week for about an hour each time. I started lifting at age 51. Height 5'9", body weight 215 lbs. How long do you think it would have taken to get to 2 x body weight if I had started at age 18, and my job was to train?

[@j719440]

I just watched Brian Shaw, worlds strongest man a couple times, struggle to get 6 pull-ups. He could pass all other portions of the test...but fails Rips effective physical specimen.

[@Upharius]

Some people aren't built well for pullups.

[@j719440]

Upharius that’s the point

[@magnumsxs]

Youre not understanding the point.

[@elendiel]

​@@Upharius While that may be, my bet is, that if Brian cut down by about a 120lbs, he could rep out like 20 pullups. That's not what he needs for his sport though.

[@Upharius]

@@elendiel I don't know, you really have to work at pull-ups if you don't have a natural proclivity.

[@realpolitik3169]

The Army's only real mission is to suffer.

[@linoazzurro]

I want to get back into strength training. This country wouldn't operate if it wasn't for truckers but this lifestyle is wearing on me. I enjoy having time to listen to podcasts and audiobooks all day long but depression could creep up on you. Most drivers don't have time for strength training and the truck stops offer disgusting food choices. A lot of people like this lifestyle and smoke cigarettes and are full of tattoos but I feel out of place sometimes but once in awhile I meet good people performing this job. There are a lot of obese truckers, they don't take care of themselves in the least. This Nation has forgotten about their professional drivers. I wish drivers would shut this Nation down and stop driving for a few days but their not organized enough plus with all of this multiculturalism they'll just bring in more Africans and Punjabis to do the job . No one is discussing this issue and considering building gyms instead of Wendy's and Carl's Jr at travel centers plus create more parking to stop at, not more malls.

[@jasonsimpson1397]

Stop driving now and go open a strength gym along a major trucking route. Considering you sit for long periods, causing shortening of the hamstrings, maybe a space for some DDP yoga, too.

[@milktea4270]

The military's desperate enough for recruits. These standards would just unnecessarily thin it out even more.

[@ricksongracie618]

You have to pull 400 pounds to graduate boot camp? Good luck with that, lol.

[@ChrisJ294]

Waste of time. Waddling about but being able to press and deadlift does no good in combat. Then, you just need to be fast, agile, and able to move quickly over the ground for a few miles carrying gear and weaponry. Ultimately, you are there to pull a trigger.

[@yogsothoth5370]

He said 75 second 400m sprint. That's a bit more than "waddling about." And combat troops carry 100+lbs in gear now.

[@eljefe5536]

I'm afraid that this guy isn't exactly left wing.

[@buffsquirrel9109]

Man that simple test would cut 90% of applicants. I completely agree with it though, but this is the millenial generation lol.

[@grahambrothers1516]

Cardio is more important in the military

[@maidenless2110]

@Michael Conley What is with your edgy comments everywhere? "Low IQ troll" and "Holy autism". Do you not have friends to make fun of you for talking like this? This isn't how normal people communicate. You seem to not have a lot of social experience and self awareness. You sound like an incel.

[@ryanaedmonds]

Watch a combat engineer build a MGB bridge and tell me that cardio is what will be called for. It is almost all deadlift and pressing. Weak soldiers get stuck as pin men on the bridge site, and even then, when one pin weighs 60lbs or so and needs to be shoved into place, often in an overhead position, it is, once again, strength that is called for.

[@samharris9559]

Fast forward 3 years: The Army has removed the pull-up and the knee tuck and is now offering fat camps for morbidly obese recruits.

[@iamarokotmanson]

The ACFT still has pull ups and knee tucks, and if thats what they gotta do for recruits- thats what the army'll do

[@ctvwrest]

Over 80 percent of the jobs in the military are not combat oriented. A supply clerk doesn't need to be held to the same physical standard as a Navy SEAL, Ranger, Marine infantryman etc. I agree with the standards for combat MOS / Rates but not for the whole force. On that, our current standard is a joke and does need an overhaul.

[@jpen5599]

At the end of day We all are rifle mans.

[@domen9296]

Military has to be standardised and in order. You don't want fat fucks or skeletons in the military even if they are not on the front all the time.

[@maidenless2110]

75 second 400m is ass I don't understand that one. That's a light jog. Most fit men in the military should be getting sub 60 with ease.

[@maidenless2110]

@Michael ConleyIt's only 400m though. Fine, 65 seconds. You'd be surprised at how slow 75 seconds is for an isolated 400m. I'd say 5 minutes for a mile is a very good standard of fitness, also, that most people in the marines will reach with ease after 6 months hard training. Or maybe a sub 20 minute 5k. When I was looking at other countries' military training, the royal marines in the UK require you run a 22 minute 5k as a very early preliminary benchmark before you're even considered to be a marine. So a 65 second 400m, 5 minute mile in 6 months, on top of basic strength standards that wouldn't see you put on too much bulk.. Shit, that might even be too easy.

[@freneticfanatic]

75 seconds... in full kit.

[@dankdark974]

@@maidenless2110 5 minute mile? Ffs i dont think youve ever run a five minute mile.

[@jasonsimpson1397]

I fail to see how a 200 lbs bw would be more advantageous than 165. These guys aren't typically going 1 on 1 in a fist fight with the opponent amd from what I've heard from friends who served, carrying those packs through the desert is a bitch and having extra muscle doesn't necessarily benefit walking.

[@terryobien2028]

It might not help walking, but it sure does help with that 60Lb pack.

[@AfterLifeGuru]

2x bodyweight deadlift? christ. I see ridiculously fit people at the gym doing 225-250lb deadlifts and i think thats impressive, considering im a novice and only deadlift 155 (weigh 175).

[@tyrfing777]

Fit people at the gym often look that way because they're getting their body fat percentage down. They're not interested in lifting heavier unless it does that.

[@AfterLifeGuru]

@@tyrfing777 I'm not even talking about toned guys, I'm taking giant muscular guys that are 6+ feet tall and definitely over 200lbs. Saying 2x bodyweight deadlift isn't impressive just sounds weird to me but I guess if you spent your life training lifters it's whatever lol

[@tyrfing777]

@@AfterLifeGuru if you increase the weight on the bar by measured amounts, and if you eat enough to be in a surplus (so you can build muscle easily), then I think you will be surprised how fast you will pass that impressive deadlift.

[@frankyi8206]

I think Rip's point is that these are supposed to be soldiers, so they should in impressive shape. A lot of times you see bodybuilder type guys look bigger than they are strong, whereas Rip wants guys who are strong regardless of how they look (from an aesthetic standpoint)

[@AfterLifeGuru]

@@frankyi8206 I agree but lets be real, its hard enough to recruit as it is. To also find people that are gonna be able to tough out being able to deadlift 400lbs seems a stretch. Ive made great progress on mine, started out with a measly 85 and now im at 135 and gonna move up to 155 soon in 2 months time, but 400...man.

[@yew2oob954]

Yeah...David beat Goliath with "sets of fahve" 🙄🙄🙄

[@Alex-lu3pn]

Maybe, just *maybe* Strength isn't that important in a guns war They only need conditioning and fairly basic strength, the strong military guy is just a stereotype.

[@jpen5599]

Mayby You just need put on the full gear that gun war needs....

[@domen9296]

If you look like a skeleton you won't be able to carry 40kg of equipment