A&O Ministry's Statement on Ravi Zacharias' Scandal

We moved on to the Ravi Zacharias scandal and developments therein.
All Dividing Line Highlights' video productions and credit belong to Alpha and Omega Ministries®. If this video interested you, please visit aomin.org/ or www.sermonaudio...
For James White's political content, click here:
www.bitchute.c...
#controversy #evangelicalism

[@arch110architecturedesigni7]

"The standard is not perfection. The standard is repentance." Just WOW!!

[@noryloydnarvaez327]

Woaaw, Jack, you sound adamant. What did you think I was pointing at when I quoted this particular line? Because your assumption and my motive may not be the same.. #peacesign

[@noryloydnarvaez327]

@@CoolioMoDee I see, well thanks for clarifying what you assumed. I did not know my quoting sounded as though I relieved RZ of any accountability. I certainly did not mean that!😵 If I may clarify, I was not exonerating or relieving RZ of any blame. For indeed, if the standard is repentance, then RZ would have failed. Now, I do not assume to know RZ's full thoughts. This revelation was truly horrifying and I agree with all that Dr White suggested on the closeout of RZIM, etc. But I also recognize that I cannot bear the burden of being the Ultimate Judge on all this. And I say "not ultimate", because I believe God still calls Christians to judge another person on the basis of His Word. This warrants our need to confront each other. But ultimately, He judges us all. And though I have my judgments, in the end, I still leave it to God to settle it for me. I simply cannot handle the burning anger and need to avenge. So I quoted this phrase because I totally agreed on repentance being the standard. I understood it as the ongoing fruit of sanctification. But the way DrW phrased it was perhaps the first time i heard it said this way - "the standard is not perfection but repentance". It was a great way to put it. I agreed with it so much, I repeated what DrW said in my comments. I did not know it may sound differently to others as it did to you. So, I took this time to respond because I just wanted to clear the air. I mean, I don't know you personally but it seems like and sounds like the sexual misconduct done here also angers you. If that is so, that makes us the same. In the end, Jesus is the sure foundation. Everything else is sinking sand. And if any leader perseveres to the end, it is only by His grace that the faith and the working of faith were possible. Anyway, thanks for responding. Stay safe! #peace&love

[@pierresrouji7280]

The standard IS perfection. That is why Jesus died for us so He can clothe us with His righteousness and when the father looks at us He sees His perfect son Jesus.. Repentance is the evidence of His work.

[@GrandmasterTune]

Jesus commands us to be perfect. If we say we don’t we make us god. To call anyone a sinner when you yourself sin is called hypocrisy. You are all hypocrites and will face the same judgement as Ravi.

[@MrAntiOrdinary]

Honestly, I don’t understand anyone trying to criticize James White or A/O Min in any way concerning RZIM. The truth is, I started listening to the Dividing Line back in 2003-04. I can’t count how many times I’ve heard Dr. White say that apologists who don’t stay close and connected to the local church are headed for a world of hurt. Literally, this RZIM news was so big, it literally is a WORLD of hurt. Dr. White said everything true about these kinds of situations, I can verify, for over 15 years. Whoever has ears to hear...

[@julespful]

It is the deceit the guile that is so damaging and it’s seems that Ravi excuse was I am so busy for God , I should be allowed some pleasures of my own. The tragedy is that people said of Ravi ‘ behold a man in whom there is no guile ‘ I certainly did . Well I also try to hide my secret sins too and constantly excuse them but have no peace. But if I confess my sins He is faithful and just to forgive. The message of the gospel preached by Ravi if he had but repented and walked in the light , would have made the message all the more effective and powerful! I pray for the family and those he abused and exploited that they may know that God is not a man that he should lie and nothing can seperate them from the love of God in Jesus Christ, nothing and out of ashes He can still bring beauty.

[@Bibliotechno]

I remember a Brethren elder a long time ago, saying, always be wary if a man names a ministry after his own name.

[@carolberubee]

Nah. Sometimes people just aren't creative enough to come up with a catchy ministry name. Voddie Baucham Ministries comes to mind, but I'm not going to entertain the idea that Voddie is in it for himself.

[@--i-am-root]

@@carolberubee yea I was just thinking about Voddie Baucham myself. I had heard others say the same about Ravi's eponymous ministry, and while looking for updates on Voddie's situation, I found out his ministry was named after himself.

[@adamcraig1468]

@@carolberubee the bible literally teaches about not following other preachers names. I am of apollo etc. Where in the bible does it give any president for naming ministries after people? We've lost what the NT assembly was

[@carolberubee]

@@adamcraig1468 I think you've lost the meaning of Paul's rebuke in 1 Corinthians. It wasn't about using someone's name as a simple identifier but causing divisions by preferring one pastor-teacher over another.

[@adamcraig1468]

@@carolberubee it was about tribalism. Which is kind of what happened here. RZIM staff failed to see the possibility that theif founder, leader and brand could be so flawed

[@kelvyquayo]

Whoever’s faith is shaken by this needed to have it shaken

[@ohla300]

Agreed.🙏✌💗

[@jasminecedeno1681]

Completely agree, Q 😉

[@WasLostButNowAmFound]

Shaken not stirred.

[@pateunuchity884]

Sin is deceitful. Sin is enticing. Sin loves the darkest of corners. Sweep the corners. Open the curtains. Go toward the light of Christ. Prayer for Ravi’s family who probably had very little knowledge of this part of his life. #tendermercies 🙏🏽

[@rayleinesandi4703]

First & foremost , pray for the victims. Pray for his family too.

[@danielomitted1867]

I listened to Ravi for a short period but realized I wasn't really getting much out of it. Sure he could tickle your ears with his philosophy but thats about it. His apologetic ministry was always just fundamentally missing the gospel. Where was the law? Where was the call to repent? Where was the explanation of the gospel? Cause I listened to a good bit and never found it.

[@zachtbh]

Same here. I was really attracted to ravi's preaching a while back but eventually fell out of it. As you put it rightly that he "tickles your ears". I end up listening more to preachers who preaches hard truth fire and brimstone backed by solid biblical scriptures.

[@angelakatsapas7894]

Same here

[@protestantanon2534]

It was right there by him endorsing the unification of Protestants and the whore of Babylon Catholic church, idk how you missed it

[@danielomitted1867]

@@protestantanon2534 what was right there?

[@zachtbh]

@@protestantanon2534 hey, don't assume that everybody came across ravi's material about roman Catholicism. Ravi was more well known with his materials on atheism and other Eastern religion. There's no need to be condescending

[@jamestrotter3162]

Therefore do not fear them, for there is nothing covered that will not be revealed, and hidden that will not be known."- Matthew 10:26

[@fakeyououtdotcom2409]

You do realize that includes you too?

[@jamestrotter3162]

@@fakeyououtdotcom2409 Of course it does. It applies to everyone. I have nothing to hide.

[@fakeyououtdotcom2409]

@@jamestrotter3162 Meaning you're perfect? lol 😋

[@jamestrotter3162]

@@fakeyououtdotcom2409 No, meaning I belong to Christ who is perfect, and He sees everything, so I have nothing to hide.

[@jamestrotter3162]

@Salvatore Briguglio The Scriptural text means everything since it's the Word of God.

[@Rvillaluz123]

Jesus sent them two by two, it's a practice that avoids problems and at the same time provides accountability. Two by two refers to two individuals of the same authority and never a subordinate or opposite sex for obvious reasons.

[@aaronkemp7789]

Nabeel Qureshi traveled with him extensively before his death. One wonders if Nabeel had any suspicions about what was going on behind the scenes.

[@ethanhocking8229]

@@aaronkemp7789 I doubt Nabeel knew anything. Ravi had the uncanny ability, it seems, to just make people trust him. Chances are, Nabeel simply knew that Ravi needed his massages, and he wouldn't have thought anything else of it.

[@wagsbass]

Ravi and massage therapist, that's 2

[@KristiLEvans1]

Excellent point.

[@willbrown6298]

The most important part of that is integrity. If one of them has no integrity, the other thinks everything is just fine, and then the world thinks everything is just fine.

[@mchristr]

As a Christian studying philosophy, I gained much from Ravi's teaching over the years but always viewed it as pre-evangelism. I'm now having to field questions from unbelievers over this.

[@WasLostButNowAmFound]

Heh, You as a christian studying philosophy it's probably better to learn from Dr. RC Sproul who had a bachelor's in philosophy.

[@drewwilson6639]

All I can say is that Ravi Zacharias had a profound impact on my faith regardless of his very serious shortcomings. May God have mercy on Ravi Zacharias!

[@seeqr9]

Agreed :(

[@christopherbishop1111]

The best analysis of this extremely disheartening situation I have seen. Thank-you, Dr. White.

[@Solideogloria00]

Mike Wingers’s analysis is more balanced I think.

[@MrAntiOrdinary]

Believe it or not, David Wood was actually quite reasonable on the matter as well. A somewhat rationalistic take, but helpful nonetheless.

[@DavidRamirez-ww5kv]

Keep on teaching Dr. White. We need truth.

[@dragonofchaos7843]

The truth is in Islam

[@blakerobbins4345]

@@dragonofchaos7843 Mohammad was influenced by Satan.

[@jeffdollar1646]

Matthew Henry makes the observation regarding a thorn bush not producing good fruit may place a cluster of grapes on itself to make it more appealing. The grapes are good, but did not originate with the bad tree. So then, people like Ravi may say things that are true and able to bless, but they themselves are far from God. Two of my teachers in Bible college (HAC) were sexual deviants and went to prison - but some of their teaching was profitable because they were stealing it from others.

[@domega9161]

Very insightful thank you for sharing brother. Checking off the box and borrowing a worldview, and not applying it to yourself.

[@duranbailiff5337]

Hyles-Anderson and FBH ended up having numerous perverts and abusers, if you care to know. Grapes grow on vines, not trees. 😂 I feel for you, though.

[@salrecinos6922]

God is exposing the hidden things

[@huunguyen584]

“For the kingdom of God does not consist in talk but in power.” ‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭4:20‬

[@elijahrose7913]

This is the first time I've given myself over to listening to anything about this. I'm glad it's from you James.

[@wacerahchege8]

I wonder why? Be careful you don't fall in to idolatrize.

[@elijahrose7913]

@@wacerahchege8 you wonder why what?

[@elijahrose7913]

@@wacerahchege8 be careful what?

[@wacerahchege8]

@@elijahrose7913 'why'? 👇🏾 "This is the first time I've given myself over to listening to anything about this. I'am glad its from you James".

[@elijahrose7913]

@@wacerahchege8 you didn't answer my question.

[@brianstokes4065]

How does Dr. White convert a Kindle book to MP3? What program does he use?

[@Rinebo]

Let us all learn from Ravi’s bad choices.

[@energeticconfidentlady4254]

It's a warning & public example

[@jesussavesforever6264]

I always had a bad feeling about Ravi Zechariahs. Really.

[@rossbriannestein5054]

This is one of the main reasons I don't support para ministries financially; typically there is no church/elder oversight, and hardly any accountability.

[@GerardPerry]

I had this discussion online the other day with someone who maintained that there were faithful episcopal polities. I think you need to adhere to a Biblical church structure, i.e. a plurality of elders, in order to ensure accountability. The whole idea of having a popish ruler over an entire ministry, who can't be removed even if he's preaching false doctrine or is a reprobate, is unbiblical.

[@salvadoralvarado8685]

People are so gullible !

[@rossbriannestein5054]

@@salvadoralvarado8685 having a strong ecclesiology definitely helps guard against unchecked sin. The moment one moves outside the protection/ accountability of the local church and tries to "do ministry," that's the seedbed where sin and heresy florists.

[@danielaramburo7648]

If a large mega church or evangelical organization does not have open financial books accessible to the public, stay away from it.

[@matthewtarpley948]

Thanks for sharing! "Apologist" is not an office. For these guys to think they can travel for extended periods of time without the accountability of a local Church is just a recipe for scandal. I'm ashamed I didn't see it earlier.

[@richardmaldonado574]

That’s why you don’t put your trust in man , I wouldn’t even put my trust in you JAMES WHITE ! You are but a mere man !!!!!! Amen 🙏 and I’m sure you agree.

[@reynaldoarcangel1915]

We can’t trust you either, right ?

[@erikrohr4396]

@@reynaldoarcangel1915 I don't even trust you, Sir!

[@WasLostButNowAmFound]

You're subscribing to youtube channels with half naked ladies. You better wise up.

[@yurifrancisco91]

Remember, if Ravi helped you out in your faith to the Lord, it's the Lord your faith goes, not man!! What Satan meant for evil, God always uses for good to those who seek Him. The Gospel of Jesus Christ that he preached will never get distorted, the truth is always truth. God's word will always prevail even if humans preachers fall. I understand my own depravity, my own darkness, we are all in the batle to the end of our lives.. If we don't wash our laundry before God, He will expose it to the world. Don't let another men's sins hinder or quench your faith in Jesus Christ. Only Christ is sinless. Hebrews 12:12 "Looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith.

[@Thatoneguy-vd8ge]

I prefer to think of these kinds of people as matchmakers who set you up on a blind date. My relationship when I choose to start it is with Jesus, not with the matchmaker who introduced us and probably has a whole lot of problems.

[@songoku3046]

Ravi was more of a storyteller rather than a preacher. There was a time when he was asked about the "Problem of Evil", he went on with his story telling and ended up not giving a sound biblical answer for that question. Arminians, Semi-Pelagians, Open theists, Molinists, Pelagians won't be able to adequately answer such a question because their theology is centered in man not God.

[@jkdbuck7670]

I agree. It took me many years to understand the difference between telling stories and biblical exegesis. I started going to a church where there is sound biblical exegesis and sometime after I became a member, I turned on local Christian radio and heard Ravi for the final time....I stopped listening because it dawned on me that he was telling stories and not doing biblical exegesis. I'm glad the Lord gave me that insight.

[@songoku3046]

@@jkdbuck7670 Amen! Soli Deo Gloria

[@marktwain580]

He always hyped his story telling. Totally narcissistic. That’s when I tuned him out. I’m not the only one who observed this.

[@lleange363]

i agree....

[@Maranatha7557]

I didn’t get much out of his teachings, and now it dawns on me why. I used to think he was far above me intellectually, but now I see he was just reading poems or being philosophical and not necessarily Biblical.

[@yvonnegonzales2973]

Fixed our eyes to Yeshua, not to famous idols

[@silveriorebelo8045]

since the begining protestnt idolize the great 'masters' .... they even have givenj the name of those 'masters' to the curches they have established...

[@duranbailiff5337]

​Not universally true, but yes, it has been a problem. Not that Rome ever had an issue...😂 Take a long look in the mirror. 😇 God will Judge everyone and everything.

[@aaronkemp7789]

Does anyone remember him giving a clear and concise definition of the gospel, that wasn't based in personal anecdotes?

[@squrpion]

I cannot find a clear presentation of the gospel from him. I've been looking for two days.

[@thomasc9036]

​@@squrpion Ravi did preach the gospel. We should be critical of his sexual behavior like the bible is of David. However, we should be careful of accusing him of being a false teacher who didn't or preached the wrong gospel. Condemning someone is different from criticizing him. While Christians are taught to be generous is good, but we are supposed to generous with cautions in case they are used for evil purposes. There are too many preachers and pastors who are tempted by exorbitant amount of money they receive and Christians need to take some responsibilities for tempting them even though our hearts were in the right place.

[@lkae4]

Bingo. I've realized from 2020 that most conservative church goers don't know and can't explain the Gospel. Likely 99.9999% of progressive church goers don't know the Gospel. This is the real battle.

[@warriorchamberstudios4000]

Lotta word salad, platitudes and anecdotes; there was never a direct gospel message that I observed or remember. I’m willing to be proven wrong, however. He was very soft on the cults as well.

[@aaronkemp7789]

@@thomasc9036 Please point us to where he clearly preached the gospel.

[@pocahontasreese1423]

I met Ravi in person. Yes, I purchased a book. Yes, I listened to his sermons and cried and laughed. This guy had some really good stories. However, when he preached in the Mormon Church and failed to distinquish between Jesus of the Bible and the Mormon Jesus, I lost respect for him immediately. I knew something was wrong. Christians should have been so disturbed and exposed Ravi at this point. NO. We waited until the Atheist sifted Ravi. This is so wrong. Christians need to stand.

[@RMarshall57]

One of the problems is that he DID talk about purity and holiness. I remember being helped by a warning in one of his talks about the poison of pornography, about how the slightest exposure can get into your spiritual bloodstream and end up destroying you!

[@Johnathan909309]

"if I went Ravi on somebody" hahahahaha this is one reason why I watch you James!

[@HaroldtheDon]

It's catching on quickly. I think Friel used it too

[@Maranatha7557]

This has taught me a very valuable lesson. God help me. God help every single one of us.

[@gospelcawfeethoughts9925]

That’s right, Laura. Amen.

[@christopherdunham2637]

My wife was saved watching Peter Popoff. Crazy as it sounds.

[@DonatoAnzalone]

Really. This is a good of Good changing evil into good 😊

[@oracleoftroy]

God is mighty to save.

[@littleboots9800]

Ravi was so in love with his view of himself as a suave, eloquent scholar, knowledgeable and learned, that I couldnt see himself being able to humble himself under the authority of another.

[@raysonraypay5885]

I’ve watched him share his testimony. He’s pretty humble

[@beckaforte]

Anyone know the other apologetics organization "kingdom" from James's last few minutes?

[@bryansager9969]

Anyone in authority at RZIM that knew about this should step down immediately, they are disqualified.

[@diegoalexismaya5967]

This has been in my heart for weeks and I still can’t believe it. The things this man spoke of and the convictions he spoke them with! Just wow. I am also far far faaar from perfection and constantly fall but repentance is there and the hunger for holiness as well.

[@jazzmonk5670]

I agree with James statement that RZIM should dissolve. RZIM’s silence and passiveness makes the them indirectly complicit.

[@annchovey2089]

Check their website. They are no longer taking donations. They have hired a firm to go over their culture, finances, policies, etc. They will be rebranding and renaming the ministry. Ravi did put together amazing people - some of them even more brilliant than Ravi. Afterall, he wanted the ministry to be a success. These people are true believers and are still reeling from the fallout from this man they thought they knew.

[@jazzmonk5670]

@@annchovey2089 The RZIM staff are not as innocent as you would like to believe. They knew the man Ravi in and out of the pulpit/public platform... and they chose to ignore his sinful life for the sake of maintaining a successful ministry. RZIM staff was clearly complicit, and now they must accept the consequences of their passive sin.

[@annchovey2089]

@@jazzmonk5670 I'm not disagreeing with you but I have been to RZIM events in the UK and here and the staff is amazing. Ravi was so brilliant that I think he had the capacity to be two different people. Sometimes I wonder if he didn't welcome the cancer because as he got older it had to be a chore to keep up these two identities and keep the two worlds separate. Only God knows.

[@jazzmonk5670]

@@annchovey2089 You continue to highlight RZIM’s “brilliance”, and there’s the problem and how Ravi got away with his sinful double lifestyle. RZIM is so “brilliant” and yet they lacked discernment. So enamored with Ravi’s “brilliance” they threw accountability out the ministry, hence, here we are today, another scandal in GOD’s Church. GOD’s Church needs less “brilliant” leaders, but rather leaders whom acknowledge their weakness, filled with the SPIRIT of GOD and HIS Word, and the ability to exercise godly wisdom and discernment. 1 Cor. 2:1-5 says: “When I came to you, brothers, I did not come with eloquence or superior wisdom as I proclaimed to the the testimony about GOD. For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except JESUS CHRIST and HIM crucified. I came to you in weakness and fear, and with much trembling. My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the SPIRIT’s power, so that your faith might not rest on men’s wisdom, but on GOD’s power.”

[@annchovey2089]

@@jazzmonk5670 When I say RZIM, I'm talking too about all the people he has on staff. They are truly brilliant. I have been to RZIM events here and in the UK and he did get the cream of the crop. The young people are mature beyond their years. We have all been fooled by someone. If you have ever been disappointed by someone then you can say you had a lapse in judgement/discernment. Are you trying to tell me you have never been disappointed in anyone? Even though Ravi failed miserably, there are a lot of good takeaways from his speeches. Truths he spoke are not nulled by his behavior.

[@sharonericson480]

Where is discernment on the part of those who are now so disappointed. RZ was slick. An accomplished storyteller. Maybe now the Church will understand that narcissism is a real condition and show mercy toward those it abuses. Why didn't those in the know of the importance of elders, accountability, etc, speak out sooner about RZ's show. When did it ever qualify as a ministry?

[@MalaikaLele]

"Maybe now the Church will understand that narcissism is a real condition and show mercy toward those it abuses." THANK YOU FOR THIS COMMENT. With the very small number of people who mention this, unfortunately this problem will get worse. 95% of Christians do NOT even realize that the MAIN CAUSE of this is not because of moral failure, it's because of FAILURE TO IDENTIFY AND HANDLE NARCISSISTIC BEHAVIOR/PEOPLE, ESPECIALLY IN THE CHURCH. There are too many narcissistic people/leaders in the church, and they are GROWING IN NUMBER. but Christians choose to tolerate them and neglect their victims, I have seen it too many times in local churches. These narcissists come in local churches, destroy them, leave, and do the same thing in other churches. Christians are ENTIRELY AT FAULT in my opinion, because these people would not go this far abusing and manipulating people if Christians had DISCERNMENT and if they DISCIPLINED THOSE NARCISSISTS.

[@ancientegyptandthebible]

The Church loves story over truth, and that is why the Church keeps getting burned.

[@philipbuckley759]

the question is how was this allowed to go on, for such a long time....

[@engmed4400]

From what I understand, he threw rather mighty tantrums if anyone tried to limit him in any way, so it's very possible he browbeat the lot of them into simply looking the other way.

[@raysonraypay5885]

Cuz it’s BS lol

[@SusanMorales]

I also share the opinion that repentance was lacking in his life on my own reaction video of Ravi.

[@karintraut8151]

Hi James love your ministry I'm from South Africa and did listen for a short while to Ravi but something was putting me of he did talk to much thanks for Alpha @Omega here in the small west coast of SA is no preachers that we can listen too

[@Susieq26754]

2 Timothy 3:7 Always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth.

[@jesussavesforever6264]

Hello, Dr. James White. Great debates, my brother. I'll see you in Heaven one day, sir.

[@marktwain580]

He always hyped his story telling. Totally narcissistic. That’s when I tuned him out. I’m not the only one who observed this.

[@raysonraypay5885]

Riiiiight, liar

[@megaloschemos9113]

So true. There is no office of 'apologists'. It's a faily new concept and you can definitely hide, if you are on the road for most of the time.

[@Busytech109]

Is that because we are all called to defend the faith?

[@engmed4400]

I'm of the firm opinion that all believers are called to be Apologists. The Acts of the Apostles is full of examples of laypeople from the early Church engaging in apologetics. None of them was any more special than the other, and that's the point. Peter said that we must all be prepared to provide a reasoned defense of our hope in Jesus, and that makes us all Apologists by definition. Sadly, there aren't may laypeople who seem to be the lightest bit interested in engaging.

[@chewyluigi]

Towards the end, he mentions "only 2 ministries are st this level. You can think of the other one" Who is he referring to?

[@Themuslimtheist]

Appreciate James White's honesty as always.

[@thetruthcartel]

Billy Grahams ministry is still going strong and it’s a “legacy ministry” in some sense.

[@Bibliotechno]

I read once they, as a team, made several vows, including not being alone in a vulnerable situation.

[@tylerbuckner3750]

@@Bibliotechno Many people tell the story about Billy Graham not even getting in an elevator alone with a woman. That’s integrity.

[@matthewallen1266]

Matthew 7:22-23 was written exactly for people like Ravi 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works. 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Micah 2:1 Woe to them that devise iniquity, and work evil upon their beds! when the morning is light, they practice it, because it is in the power of their hand. In the end Ravi was a con man, just like all the others that use the gospel to enrich themselves at the expense of others.

[@raysonraypay5885]

Nah, Jesus knows Ravi

[@Sarah-qz4bq]

Thank you for bringing this to light! Mike Winger has the best edifying bible teaching video on the whole Ravi thing. Take a listen.

[@educationalporpoises9592]

Ravi was primarily a performer, then a story teller, then a 3rd rate philosopher, then a 5th rate theologian and a 30th rate christian. I liked him for a number of reasons. His "testimony" reminded me of mine, and he kinda melded mystic and intellect in his words. But it's clear that he thought he was more of a Jesus than he thought Jesus is Jesus. Otherwise he wouldn't have said stuff like "this affair is my reward for what I've done for God." It's giving a lot of reason to reflection on where we get our ideas and encouragement from, from a pop intellectual Christianity view. This is also giving me some pause as I explore Orthodoxy and Catholicism. It's somehow made me extra cautious in my investigations and is making me much more wary about considering whether or not one or both of those institutions is authoritative.

[@raysonraypay5885]

Lol lame-o

[@truthisbeautiful7492]

Hey recommend you read the best resources for Reformed and protestant view. Good introductions are 1. Roman Catholic Controversy by James White and 2. nothing in my hand I bring. 0. Read scriptures 1. Read 'A Reformed Catholic' by William Perkins. 2. Read 'Defense of the True and Catholic Sacrement of Body and Blood of our Savior Christ by Thomas Cramner 3. Read Papalism. 4. Read Divine Rule of Faith 5. Read Why Protestant Bibles are Smaller AND The Old Testament Canon of the New Testament Church. 6. Read apology of the Ausburg Confession. 7. Read Calvin's Institutes. 8. Read Augustine's Religion ( found on Reformed Books online under Roman Catholicism, where 62 points where Augustine agreed with Reformed over Roman, which has expanded since Rome has allowed new contradicatory views on Scripture, Tradition, Inerrnacy, Predestination, Universalism, Young Earth Creationism, etc). 9. Read Examination of the Council of Trent by Martin Chemnitz, esp volume 1. 10. Read 'A Learned Discourse on Justification' 11. Read 'Where was your Church Before Luther? 12. read 'righteousness of One' and How Great the Divide by Jordan Cooper. 13. Read secular works that show where unique Roman or Eastern beliefs came from, like 'The Assumption of Mary's by Stephan Shoemaker and 'The Birth of Purgatory."

[@beyondthediscord]

You said it. “Who were the bean counters?”

[@engmed4400]

My understanding is that he had an entire fund all to himself, with no oversight. I don't know who thought that was a good idea, but they're idiots. I tell my wife if I buy a cheeseburger, let alone anything more significant than that. How does one operate any kind of funds without oversight?

[@ElAleman1234]

It seems to me that RZIM should devout their funds to help victims of sexuale abuse and prevent sexual abuse in the future. Maybe a whistleblower hotline for victims to call etc.

[@robertboebinger7719]

Blessings to you brother James 💒

[@aaamarco3]

Remember Phillipians 1:17: "[Some] proclaim Christ out of selfish ambition rather than from pure motives, thinking to cause me distress in my imprisonment. What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is proclaimed; and in this I rejoice."

[@sherriwalters6095]

Unfortunately, two years have gone by and Ravi’s wife & son are still denying that any of this happened.

[@overthinkingchristian8732]

To your point about Ravi being gone for months at a time (which I agree with you--it isn't healthy). I understand what you're saying about how you can't fellowship with the same people week in and week out and fool them. And yet plenty of pastors do just that (Art Arzurdia is just one example).

[@ronnierubio3445]

which is the other organization he was talking about

[@garycasebier7909]

Most of his material dealt with distinguishing differences in Eastern and Western worldviews. Being someone like me who has read The Universe Next Door by Sire 3 times, other worldview books, and also teach on it, nothing will cut to the core of my soul than Scriptures and allowing it to convict me in the other areas of my life where my knowledge of worldviews doesn't. I personally think that Ravi, fell to the temptations of his own Indian charm to the West and ran with it.

[@engmed4400]

Dr. White, I'm a layman who frequently engages in apologetics and evangelism, and I recognize the need for accountability. I never engage anyone in private. I avoid dealing with women as much as possible because there is entirely too much trouble that can be associated. If she's accompanied by someone else, and the interaction is a group conversation, that's one thing. However, there will not be a point where I'm going to sit down for a face-to-face intimate conversation, even if that conversation involves sharing the Gospel. If she needs to speak intimately, then I'm handing her over to my wife and letting them have that conversation without me. That being said, I find myself faced with a problem. You mentioned that we need a church for accountability. I absolutely agree, but I find myself in a difficult situation. At present, I don't belong to a church. Not because I don't want to, but because my wife and I have a hard time finding good, solid, Bible believing churches in our area. All we've found thus far is nice, neat buildings packed wall-to-wall, floor-to-ceiling with heresy. I confess to being a bit like Irenaeus when it comes to heresy, so it's an automatic "no" for me when I find heretical teachings. As if that wasn't enough, I also have the added problem of being on active duty with the National Guard. I'm on my state's COVID task force, which means that I'm away from home, and living in hotel rooms by myself. The COVID restrictions won't allow us to double up in rooms, so I spend a lot of time alone. While I do have the number for my unit Chaplain, and we are well acquainted as he is the one who redid my baptism, neither of our schedules allow for proper accountability. I mitigate this by spending a significant amount of my free time on the phone with my wife, but I still get a lot of alone time. I have socially distanced myself from my team in order to avoid any issues, but there aren't any believers in the entire lot beyond my team lead. He's busy doing his job, so I don't get to speak with him all that often. I have located a good church near my hotel, but my schedule makes regular attendance difficult at best. I generally keep to my room, where I spend most of my free time studying, researching, watching/listening to sermons, and writing posts for my blog. I've been on orders for the better part of a year, and it does occasionally get lonely. However, I'd rather be lonely than find myself in a situation where there is trouble. From your perspective, is there something else I can be doing?

[@williamsykes7803]

There is massive amounts of accountability within the J.W. organisations, and yet it has been proven beyond any reasonable doubt by multitudes of it's Ex members, that it is probably one of the most corrupt of all of the false religions. So, mere accountability within any organisation does not provide sufficient safeguarding against False Prophets, and corrupt ministries.

[@micahshalom7860]

15 Some indeed preach Christ from envy and rivalry, but others from good will. 16The latter do it out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. 17The former proclaim Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely but thinking to afflict me in my imprisonment. 18What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is proclaimed, and in that I rejoice. Philippians 1 This comes to mind.

[@jamestrotter3162]

To say one thing and do something completely different, sounds like Joe Biden.

[@Charles.Wright]

Yeah but the difference is none of us look[ed] up to Biden.

[@albertmichael8297]

the more false we destroy the more room we make for true . Robert Ingersoll

[@ifehansson2254]

I'm amazed that his frequent visions to Bangkok was not a red flag to his family and ministry staff. Bangkok for a single man or man traveling on his own is mostly about one thing and one thing only 🙄

[@SamOwenI]

You're assuming it wasn't a red flag to them. It may have been.

[@pamelakukde6136]

Correction on my earlier post: I did not mean sermon but rather a question and answer discussion in which he appeared to be "sermonizing" about sexual immorality.

[@natebaumgartner9958]

Heartbraking. I feel for the victims. Ravi will go down in church history as a cautionary tale. May Yah never let this happen again. May we, the church body, be even more vigilant to not allow another Ravi on our watch!

[@anjnvd]

Sir James, you are right how can be preached in such a great way when he was an adultery man. One thinking when sin has doned from me I cannot pray.

[@davidpatton7298]

I've received immeasurable help from RZIM, and immeasurable grace and mercy from God Almighty as a rebellious and unforgiving and immoral man through most of my life. We can learn some important wisdom to prevent opportunity to sin every day, but anyone using RZIM to condemn Jesus Christ and His Gospel is in serious rebellion themselves..

[@myobfool]

Todd Friel is pretty straightforward but only opened his mouth when he had something meaningful to say.

[@dahlianaepi2723]

You have triggered a very important question.Apologists around the world should set up a international body to ensure accountability to communities they serve.Rules and boundaries must be in place o safe guard followers.

[@dmm6341]

I sent my unsaved adult daughters Ravi's lectures because they intellectualized the faith.....IM CHOKED!!!!! I think he lost faith in the past 20 years, because I remember him when he was young in Toronto, why would he have even started a ministry. We shouldn't put any minister on a pedestal.....ANY OF THEM!!!

[@bigmic1972]

Why throw away books and teachings, unless the info in them is not true? Isnt the word of God pristine, even if the messenger isnt?

[@stevew4079]

I have no idea who ‘the other’ large apologetics organisation is

[@sictoruno2345]

I thought the same thing Lol

[@philochristos]

The only thing I can think of is The Christian Research Institute, but I haven't followed them in such a long time I don't even know if they're still around. They were big once, though.

[@stevew4079]

Sam Harper yeah that’s who I thought he meant

[@sictoruno2345]

@@philochristos R u talking about hank hanegraaff? Man that brings back real old memories!

[@philochristos]

@@sictoruno2345 That's the one.

[@spider-man4796]

What is the other enormous apologetic ministry James referred to? I’m curious

[@jessegandy7361]

I think he might be talking about William Lane Craig's reasonable faith but I'm probably wrong lol

[@kcaleb]

This is what I was wondering as well. Maybe Lee Strobel's "Case For ..." stuff?

[@ChristianLight1746]

So sad. James, I feel like your words to be an exposition of I John 3:4-10 4 Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. 5 You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. 6 No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. 8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. 9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother. (1 John 3:4-10, ESV)

[@monabanks423]

I am not saying these allegation are not true, but there's one thing that doesn't add up. If all these things happened, why was none of it not brought out until after his death? Just a question.

[@ifehansson2254]

A woman named Lori Thompson made allegations a few years back but RZ pushed back with legal action and they came to some agreement where she was slapped with a non disclosure agreement which is still legally valid apparently. He had told her he had a financial backer helping him with legal action who had bottomless pockets. He did intimidate and spiritually abuse women to keep them quiet

[@mrsresell2519]

Also many victims, whom he would have very specifically targeted, were from poor families and/or struggling financially and so he apparently used his financial power to control his victims in order to keep them quiet. He frequently used "Hush Money". Only 1 victim had the courage to confront him but he aggressively fought back "legally" with his financial power and the backing of his ministry and pretty much drove that victim and her family into financial ruin. Other victims were only discovered when his ministry decided to properly investigate Lori's allegations after all those pictures were found on his phone and so they directly approached those other victims.

[@engmed4400]

The man used money and power to ensure silence on the part of his victims and people who should have known and spoken up. He had everyone so cowed and deceived that no one could so much as twitch without him knowing and retaliating.

[@mrsresell2519]

@@engmed4400 exactly!

[@SMJ0hnson]

What’s the other apologetic “kingdom” he’s referring to?

[@perrytheplatypus7661]

I have the same question 😂

[@choicemeatrandy6572]

William Craig

[@geraldpchuagmail]

@@choicemeatrandy6572 I don't know why he is so angry with his brother in the Lord for over a sorietology.

[@choicemeatrandy6572]

@@geraldpchuagmail Because theology matters.

[@geraldpchuagmail]

@@choicemeatrandy6572 I know but over non- essentials?

[@dr.k.t.varughese3151]

Is there any video from RZIM expressing their views after the complete report?

[@fikir-fikir1938]

No video yet. Just in writings. They're on RZIM website.

[@lazlofucci7550]

Grieve over the victims rather grieving for yourself, pray for them, and help them if you can. Yes, Ravi would be in jail if he were still alive. The Bible can teach us how to overcome sexual brokenness and how to avoid it without itemizing every shameful sexual sin Ravi committed.

[@kotchstevens2321]

Living the traveling salesman/rockstar lifestyle without accountability is a disaster waiting to happen..he was probably too ashamed to let out his secret out..I think he still blessed many...

[@Minimuta]

I am SO thankful for the accountability that God has provided by my session, my Presbytery, and my denomination (the OPC) - God uses these brothers as course correctors for me all the time - And then there is the congregation. I believe that I am also accountable to them.

[@Panhorst]

Samson, Solomon and David are great examples of Christian folks who had sinful desires and were certainly believers. God is the judge of us and he knows what is in the heart. I am sure Ravi felt ashamed of his actions and unfortunately he yielded to the old self. The consequences for giving yourself over to the passions of the flesh is clearly explained in Romans, and Peter's epistles and that is death. It's not advisable by scripture that we should judge each other now because of the struggle we all have. Yes Paul warned about evil desires and said we must not entertain them but be transformed by daily renewing our minds and personal self discipline. Unfortunately Ravi made provisions for this type of sin. Watch yourself for any sin that you think is not important to repent from and turn away because we all have something that is easily besetting in the wrong direction and God will reward us only for the cleanliness of our works. Thanks be to God for his mercy and I think we all know Ravi was a believer and did have evidence of fruit and had lips that confessed his name. In the same way we look at the good of Samson, Solomon, and David we also must look at the good of Ravi. Ravi sinned and the Lord will be the judge and give to him what the Lord thinks is fair according to his own judgment. God promised forgiveness for those in Christ and to reward us for our works in Christ. That's my opinion. I am praying for those hurt by Ravi and pray that they can forgive even as Jesus commanded.

[@WasLostButNowAmFound]

If you don't have anger against sin. Hmm. Weird beliefs you have.

[@megaloschemos9113]

Ravi 'prayed' with some of the young women he was intimate with. Did you read the report? He got them to 'thank God for their relationship with him'. He told one that she was 'God's reward to him'. The man was sick, a monster

[@Ironica82]

The book of 1 John declares Ravi's damnation. No one who practices sinning is of God.

[@zachtbh]

Agreed but sexual sins aside, I can't say Samson, David and Solomon abused God's name to obtain unwarranted sexual exploitation of another. That on itself is a very worrying sign and only God knows if ravi is saved or not.

[@wandacorley2849]

I am soooo sick of people comparing Ravi’s lifelong behavior to Old Testament figures. How about comparing him to the Apostles and the disciples. Can’t live in a habitual sexually immoral lifestyle and at the same time professing to be a believer. He never was confronted nor did he repent spells HYPOCRISY!!!! He was a wolf in sheep’s clothing. Woe to you Pharisees!!!!!

[@sebastienledoux7566]

1:54 you nail it pastor White!

[@anooshmerzoian3765]

Exactly you can't hide from people you live with .. that applies to his family as well not just RZIM or the lack of church.

[@PutDownTheBunny]

I wonder what golden parachutes the executives of RZIM have.

[@dennisfox3472]

Does baptism wash away your sins after believing in Jesus and repentance or are you saved when you believe in Jesus? After Paul was blinded by a flashing light and Jesus asked him why do you persecute me and at which point Paul believed after he was told ‘I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom you are persecuting,’ as he asked 10 Then I asked, ‘What should I do, Lord?’ Get up and go into Damascus,’ He told me. ‘There you will be told all that you have been appointed to do.’.. and in verse 15 after his vision was restored he was told " You will be His witness to everyone of what you have seen and heard. 16 And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized, and wash your sins away, calling on His name.’... I believe when one considers these verses of Paul's own testimony when taken in context with all the other bible passages regarding baptism the saved by grace and because of faith alone misinterpretation based of what Paul states in Ephesians Ch 2 about saved by grace and not of works and 1st Corintians 1 17 that he came not to baptize but to preach the gospel, the thief on the cross and conversion of Cornelius and his household that are all used to support the misinterpretation that baptism is not part of the plan for salvation, it becomes clearer that baptism is for the forgiveness of sins and baptism is not optional "because of " people already being saved once they believed. Paul's own words should be enough to verify that faith / believing in Jesus is followed by repentance then baptism for forgiveness of sins . There are more passages if some still doubt what Jesus himself and through his apostles taught about baptism. It was by Gods Grace he sent Jesus to teach us the path to salvation Eph. 2 :8 For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance as our way of life.… No man created faith, repentance and baptism it was God who did so we could have faith then repent and be baptized to wash away our sins not because we were already saved at believing ! Ray stopped at repentance in this video yet Paul said in Ephesians Ch 4: 3 Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. 4There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. Peace and love in Jesus name to everyone on here regardless of there baptism interpretation and I understand how some have come to this other non essential for salvation baptism interpretation but only one baptism interpretation is the right one and Jesus clearly told the apostles in Mark 16 :15 "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation 16" Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned." So it comes down to did Paul in 1 Corinthians 1 : 17 contradict Jesus by saying he did not come to baptize but to preach the gospel or is there another explanation when all the passages regarding baptism are taken into context including the verses before verse 17.... 11 My brothers and sisters, some from Chloe’s household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. 12 What I mean is this: One of you says, “I follow Paul”; another, “I follow Apollos”; another, “I follow Cephas ”; still another, “I follow Christ.” 13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul? 14 I thank God that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 so no one can say that you were baptized in my name. 16 (Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don’t remember if I baptized anyone else.) Obviously Paul did Baptize some there so did Paul contradict himself or did he speak out of frustration with some of those at Chloe's household who were boasting they were baptized by and followed Paul or Apollo or Cephas instead of Christ. Did Paul also contradict Peter Acts 2:38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call." No ! As his own testimony below with Paul after he had heard from Jesus himself believed, repented and was baptized to wash his sins away seem to clearly show Paul did not contradict Peter or Jesus or himself.... (Acts 9:1-16; 1“Brothers and fathers, listen now to my defense before you.” 2When they heard him speak to them in Hebrew,a they became even more silent. Then Paul declared, 3“I am a Jew, born in Tarsus of Cilicia, but raised in this city. I was educated at the feet of Gamaliel in strict conformity to the law of our fathers. I am just as zealous for God as any of you here today 4I persecuted this Way even to the death, detaining both men and women and throwing them into prison, 5as the high priest and the whole Council can testify about me. I even obtained letters from them to their brothers in Damascus, and I was on my way to apprehend these people and bring them to Jerusalem to be punished. 6About noon as I was approaching Damascus, suddenly a bright light from heaven flashed around me. 7I fell to the ground and heard a voice say to me, ‘Saul, Saul, why do you persecute Me?’ 8‘Who are You, Lord?’ I asked. ‘I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom you are persecuting,’ He replied. 9My companions saw the light, but they could not understand the voice of the One speaking to me. 10Then I asked, ‘What should I do, Lord?’ ‘Get up and go into Damascus,’ He told me. ‘There you will be told all that you have been appointed to do.’ 11Because the brilliance of the light had blinded me, my companions led me by the hand into Damascus. 12There a man named Ananias, a devout observer of the law who was highly regarded by all the Jews living there, 13came and stood beside me. ‘Brother Saul,’ he said, ‘receive your sight.’ And at that moment I could see him. 14Then he said, ‘The God of our fathers has appointed you to know His will, and to see the Righteous One, and to hear His voice. 15You will be His witness to everyone of what you have seen and heard. 16And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized, and wash your sins away, calling on His name.’

[@briankregg6329]

The standard is, " be ye Holy "

[@ronaldsmall8847]

I don't remember Ravi ever referring to the Bible. I have never liked him.

[@marekfoolforchrist]

Excellent

[@pamelakukde6136]

Actually you are mistaken. He did philosophize (in a preaching manner) about sexual morality which makes his sexual abuse even more shocking and hypocritical. Indeed, there was one sermon where he condemns those who are paying for prostitutes in India and comments about how that could be someone's sister, wife, or mother and that these women deserved to be honoured and respected. How apparently hypocritical when he was doing the same to women who were someone else's sister, wife, or mother. I guess he forgot the speech he gave about honouring women and how terrible it was for prostitutes to be abuse and mistreated this way, or he remembered it but was hypocritical to no end. This is what Christ meant when he said to remove the log from your own eye when you begin to condemn or chastise others about the tiny sliver in their eye.....which is what Ravi was doing.

[@Susieq26754]

Galatians 6:6-8 Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap. For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.

[@oldskool1234]

I think this is the best christian explanation on the ravi scandal. Id like dr brown to do one aswel

[@drmessiah]

There is more forgiveness IN CHRIST than there is sin in Brother Ravi or any of us.

[@Eliaskto777]

I like this guy, that's what I been saying ppl for sure even only few but for sure knew something was not right

[@callending]

Bingo: (14:28) "The content of truth...is...if something is true, it is true because GOD made it that way, not because the way he [RZ] communicated it to you." As Christians, if we believe "you meant it for evil, but God meant it for good" is what I think James is getting at here. In His providence, God reveals whatever He does, when He does, how He does, using whomever He will. This isn't a consolation for intentional evil, but we need to be looking past the worldly aspect and focusing on how God can use this to strengthen us as ministers of the Gospel.

[@luxesinterior6084]

The objective is that it is NOT PAYMENT. And carried out by state investigators under oath.

[@junekitchen3747]

It did make me laugh when you spoke about Jack Chick. We live in Wales UK now but when we were living in South Africa we had all his band comic's in our toilet for reading matter while on the jon. And all of us loved them because we came out of Roman Catholicism. You know how he felt about the catholics

[@adamcraig1468]

I still have them all in a little basket. No doubt I'd go back and cringe at a lot of them but as a kid they matured me in a way.

[@globescape4771]

People are reading the report like it's from Mount Sinai. Who has examined the veracity of the interviewers and the victims (and third party witnesses)? I'm still waiting for the cross examination?

[@DonatoAnzalone]

To be guilty is only the conclusions of a court. No court here. Just private instigation. No court would juge someone based on private investigations. RZ can't even defend himself. I don't like this kind of amateurism in the Body of Christ

[@globescape4771]

@@DonatoAnzalone Even pagans have better due process than our current Christian social media mob.

[@ministereparolevivante1805]

@@globescape4771 That is the point. I am not condoning RZ, I do not know what happened and what he did. But every man should be considered innocent until proven wrong in a due process. THIS UNFAIR TRIAL AGAINST RZ will come back to many other famous ministers. They will no longer be attacked during their lifetime, when they can defend their integrity, they will be fought AFTER their death, when they cannot defend themselves anyomre. Can you imagine that???? If RZMI really believe what these reports say and what they probably support as well, if these 3 victims (2 are anonymous) believe it as well; then a posthume due process. Pay lawyers, get prosecutors, judges and really make a real trial. BUT THEY will not do it. Why? RZMI team is probably week and immoral. They probably prefer to pay these three witnesses for the damage that they pretend they are the victims, and at the same time they don't care about smear RZ's name. This is disgustful. Sure, if what happened is true, I send my deepest regards to these ladies for their suffering. BUT, the whole thing smells. May be it is true, and the RZMI team prefers to put all the blame on RZ and not being accused of closing an eye on it. But at the end, if it is true, it still means that they closed their eye on it. No, I really think that they prefered to pay thousands of dollars to a private investigating company, then millions of dollars of court costs, all that at the expenses of a man that is no longer able to defend himseld. Then think about the illegal activites of RZMI. Since when can you give the phones of a dead man to investigate against him? How come they have the passwords of each phone? I mean, this stinks very bad.... I am also very disapointed at many people, included Mike Wenger, who now, seems to make a business of smearing other people... He used to be a man of integrity, but now that he has a big show, he needs to keep his audience and has not problem smearing on people. I dislike this. A pastor should not smear people. He should approach every situation with a redemptive attitude, not an accusing one.

[@globescape4771]

@@ministereparolevivante1805 Many in the RZIM team who worked very closely with Ravi for many years are coming out and apologizing because they realize that the ship has sunk. In order to stay relevant and save their skin, and to stay in their field they have to "accept" this report. The whole process is rotten.

[@chuckcanuck3445]

Keen and concise observations. The ultimate consequence is the lowering of Christian apologetics to the level of a tawdry and lurid reality show in the eyes of the common man.

[@thestraightroad305]

Good thing God is the Lord of ultimate ultimate consequences.

[@ashdivakaran9664]

There is no way people in RZIM didn’t know about this, I’ve had some involvement in a corrupt Christian organisation and there were always board members or high ranking employees who looked the other way in exchange for a financial or power advantage. And I also travel for work, if I took a massage therapist with me my wife would’ve put a stop to this.

[@davdanora]

Truth stands. Regardless of how awfully twisted the orator's life is.Truth remains. The orator will be held for his/her actions, in life or after life