A Pound Of Sugar - Law & Order

A metaphor about a bag with a pound of a white powder helps Ben Stone to decide on the most ethical way to proceed.
Subscribe: / @lawandordernbc
***
Season 2, Episode 6. An apparent attack on a pregnant woman who then miscarried is part of a blackmail scheme against her boss.
This is the official KZbin channel for Law & Order. Watch all of the official clips from the series, some of the best moments from within the criminal justice system, where the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups: The police, who investigate crime, and the district attorneys, who prosecute the offenders.
Watch Law & Order on Google Play: bit.ly/2IbIu71
Watch Law & Order on iTunes apple.co/2Ia46QZ
#LawAndOrder

[@Afalstein]

Law and Order has been around for so long, I think we miss how fascinating the interplay between the cops and the lawyers are. A lot of other police procedurals catch the criminal and that's it. Law and Order actually delves into the question of why is the law the way it is, where is there sometimes a disconnect between the law and the right, and what happens if something is wrong but not illegal. It's not something you see on Castle, CSI, or any of the other half-dozen cop shows, and it's a big part of why the show's lasted so long.

[@paulfrantizek102]

Yeah, I forgot how good the early Law and Order was. Gradually went down hill though as cast members left. Michael Moriarty years were the best.

[@MastaSmack]

It's been around because of the porno music and the word dick being flashed every episode.

[@shayd1984triton]

@@paulfrantizek102 Sam Waterson was awesome as well.

[@falkotlinghaus8967]

Its also a huge feed on part of writers, writing comprehensbile but still smart court room dialog. i think its the reason most shows shy away from getting into the legal battles. They think compelling enough for the mainstream audience or that they dont know how to write complex dialogue about a mostly bureaucratic topic. These clips show that if done right, it can be extremly thrilling.

[@janemillerick9614]

I live in NYC and amongst those I know it’s always been popular because it is Accurate!

[@jasoncummings7052]

Law is both a shield and a sword. You don't go into battle with one without the other.

[@mrs.herculepoirot7763]

The most stunning and disturbing episode ever. Ben Stone was the moral center of L&O.

[@thedon1570]

Don’t worry, Roe is getting overturned. Period. 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸

[@tvdsje]

@@thedon1570 you wish. 7 months later and still it hasn't happened. And even if it does, who cares soon enough it will be back. We'll just have to wait for some of the disgusting older creeps in their 70s and 80s to die off and then the us will be on track again as a modern country.

[@whatareyoulookingat908]

@@thedon1570 You called it, friend.

[@bosbeats]

Exactly

[@EnemyOfThePeople1984]

@@thedon1570 And sent back to the states, in most of which abortion will remain legal. Enjoy your Pyrrhic victory!

[@Vesperitis]

"Wrong should not win by technicality." Spoken like a true Lawful Good.

[@Slowpoke3x]

If you have a problem with the rules, change the rules. Don't enforce it where it doesn't apply. Bending them or misusing them, to suit your needs is asking for abuse and it shouldn't be encouraged or tolerated.

[@uaidavi]

Thought the same, haha

[@firstname4337]

god, this show was such much better than any courtroom or police drama in the past 10 years

[@chloedotweir]

The actor who played Robinette is one of the most beautiful humans Ive ever seen.

[@johndonovan5752]

Richard Brooks

[@Bat-Twenty-Two]

A shame his star didn't rise much higher. He did costar in the series G vs E.

[@johndavis9432]

Ben and Paul were always brilliant when they worked together.

[@mikeg8375]

I agree, and that's why it was surprising to find out that apparently the two actors did not get along that well behind the scenes.

[@PADRII]

@@mikeg8375 Really? Guess that explains why Brooks left after season 3.

[@mikeg8375]

@PADRII yeah Moriarty is extremely talented but known to be quite volatile. By the late 90's And possibly long before then he had a severe alcohol problem. You could see on youtube quite easily by searching for him, that in 1999 he made a very embarrassing appearance on canadian talk show television...

[@melotone3305]

Give yourself a pat on the back if you remember Steven Hill from Mission Impossible.

[@Byrnzi360]

I always wondered what was on the other side of that door in the DA’s office.

[@keithandrewbounds967]

Adam Schiff is SUCH a curmudgeon BUT THAT’S what partly makes him a GREAT character!!!

[@ryanloftis1125]

Schiff was the hardest character to replace, even harder than - dare I say it? - Briscoe. None of the DAs who followed even came close to him, not even McCoy.

[@nicholasmaude6906]

I'd have described Schiff as world weary and cynical (Sic).

[@keithandrewbounds967]

@@nicholasmaude6906 AMEN BROTHER!!!

[@bwenluck9812]

@Keith Andrew Bounds My favorite Schiff line is, "There is no shortage of love in this world, only worthy vessels into which to put it!".

[@otaviofrn_adv]

@@ryanloftis1125 he had a calm about him that was unique. comes with experience, knowledge and good arguments

[@JoeyVSupreme]

Wrong should not win by technicality. Powerful.

[@austinsmith1505]

Steven hill is so underrated

[@kimberlyhypes7420]

This scene makes my head hurt lol

[@paulsummers2640]

Three years of law school.....doesn't make a person a lawyer....

[@ATBatmanMALS31]

Zero years of law school and an internet education can produce a better lawyer than any law school today, so I don't get the point. It's about morals, not how you've learned to circumvent them. I suppose that doesn't make a great lawyer, but it does make a great DA.

[@valeriedemello1794]

Law school IS 3 years!

[@hbdragon88]

In the "Best of Ben Stone Season 2" compilation, they show a bit of the court scene. Under cross-examination, the man admits that he was disbarred. I have to find and watch the whole episode to see what happens.

[@bwenluck9812]

@@valeriedemello1794 Yeah, but you can go to school for three years and not learn anything! Or graduate....

[@MateusVIII]

@@ATBatmanMALS31 Law has nothing do to with morals, nor should it. Law is about order, about a system and about the law itself. DA's that act on "moral claims" only undermine the system which they are tryign to uphold. Law can even be unfair sometimes, but it is up to society and the legislature to change it, not to populist DA's. This "internet education" you talk about is what inevitably leads to people who think they know what they are talking about without ever having had serious extensive discussions on the topic. The world is complex, and people who have found "easy and simple" solutions are almost always wrong.

[@anitabalan2610]

Who wrote this episode? Why can’t we have the writers from the earlier seasons? I know that at least one of the writers on the early seasons of L&O was David Shore (who created House)

[@johnbellocchio66]

Only, ONLY, only in New York is it believable that the DA would say, "get these bastards off the street...." and mean it.

[@GreaterGrievobeast55]

Why? I can see all manners of lawman from any sort of area in America say that. Probably a few other countries too.

[@cyberdinedog2097]

Chicago

[@christianfinkbeiner684]

Reed Diamond, who later starred in "Homicide: Life on the Street," and Molly Price, who later starred in "Third Watch."

[@squeakymcbeal6193]

Can’t wait for another scene of this!!

[@Shorty4454]

They already posted most of this episode on their page, but here is the court scene for you! Just watched it a few weeks ago lol kzbin.info/www/bejne/m3upiY16mLh8mdE

[@mikesmith-pj7xz]

Double deep cut score! "Baylis" and Kellerman!

[@albertjester]

Ah Stone. So willing to follow the spirit of the law rather than the Letter. Well, Unless Vigilantism is involved, then he'll quote you chapter and verse and demand the harshest sentence possible.

[@WhocaresWhy44]

At 1:10 the "sugar for heroin" thing is interesting due to his role in Who'll Stop the Rain" Did MM have inputs into scripts sometime?

[@christinecrites835]

To me the more disturbing episode was the Jacob Lowenstein episode.

[@dryb3301]

That fckn doctor who drove his wife insane and made her abuse and kill their own little girl, I was about to throw up. It was beyond evil, and he was a doctor smh. And that episode where woman continued to have babies so she could kill them when they grew up a little. ... Husband helped her cover up but finally grew a spine and did the right thing when he found out she's pregnant while on trial. ADA wanted to sterilise her as part of the plea bargain

[@killmimes]

My god, i miss this show

[@madison-fakharaalabaljamil3917]

This is beautiful

[@ytlongbeach]

GUILTY. As Charged.

[@kaylaroman9675]

Welcome Dita

[@franklinbeach6962]

This makes me feel so comfortable with my schizophrenia takes me to a better place in this mad world

[@KasbashPlays]

Come on L&O, I want to see the case!

[@JavierArveloCruzSantana]

Get cable!

[@Shorty4454]

They already posted most of this case on their page. Heres the link for the trail part. Just watched it the other day lol kzbin.info/www/bejne/m3upiY16mLh8mdE

[@RavenheartIndustries]

Can buy this season(season 2) on Amazon. As a matter of fact you can buy seasons 1,2,16-20... where 3-15 are nobody but a peacock knows

[@johnsanjuan9364]

Get a Fact! It Goes Beyond Unreasonable Doubts! I Have NO Doubts!

[@johnsanjuan9364]

Why?

[@iron0xide974]

Malicious prosecution right here

[@cmburke7]

Don't give me this stream on Peacock BS. None of seasons 1-12 are there.

[@gbadesakin]

The current tripe that has been foisted on the audience now doesn’t hold a candle to this. It’s either they return to the basics or cancel the show.

[@SweKingdom]

Quick question. I dont know the law well enough, but aren't the couple innocent until proven guilty? Ergo, the prosecutor, the people, has to prove that they knew that what they did was illegal. Not the other way around. Or am I wrong?

[@MyAlessandro73]

you are right i think stone did a prosecutoriol misconduct

[@biruss]

@Lizzie Allen but what if the act wasn't

[@biruss]

@Lizzie Allen no intent to do an ACTUALLY illegal act. They only thought the act was illegal

[@biruss]

@Lizzie Allen impossible to attempt a crime if the attempted act is legal

[@biruss]

@Lizzie Allen no actus reus. You can't attempt to commit a crime if the act isn't criminal.

[@billcook4768]

Not sure this is an appropriate conversation for a public coffee shop.

[@anyviolet]

2:08 - 2:22 - just curious (IANAL) , don't the defendants not have to prove a thing? Isn't it the prosecution who needs to prove they DID know it?

[@MMuraseofSandvich]

With regard to the crime they are accused of, yes, burden of proof is on the prosecution. Here, the defense offers a counter theory, which they must prove to the jury. The defense, however, need only convince one juror, the prosecution must convince everyone.

[@joemunch58]

The defendant has the burden on an affirmative defense. An affirmative defense is, yes, everything the prosecution (or plaintiff) alleges is true, but we are not guilty (or liable) anyway, because [of the affirmative defense]. An example of an affirmative defense would be a statute of limitations.

[@biruss]

@@MMuraseofSandvich easy peasy, quote the law that shows that the act attempted or conspired to do isn't illegal, and quote precedent supporting the doctrine of legal impossibility.

[@otherworlder1]

Ben Stone… hmmmmm

[@sexychelseacharms1861]

BEATLES

[@blakemcnamara9105]

This show had a different flavour when it was all men before Kincaid.

[@electroskates2434]

And Van Buren and Olivet

[@mew10521]

Yeah I wish it would have stayed that way

[@billnyfeler]

Stone is wrong when he claims you'd get convicted in every jurisdiction of the US for buying sugar when you thought it was heroin. They got bad legal advice. Kinda important in a show about the law....

[@ElectronFieldPulse]

How so? I thought attempting to buy drugs was a nation wide thing

[@yungblod8975]

Your right about the possession charge buy they will still get you 10 other ways they always do

[@biruss]

No actus rea

[@Nightopian1982]

I still prefer SVU to this, and quite keen on CI too (mainly for Robert Goren!), but the best ADAs were Stone and Kincaid for me, as a pairing especially. That said, I still liked most of the characters. Van Buren, Curtis, Briscoe, Cutter were my favourites. And apologies for sounding shallow, but I have to say that Claire Kincaid, Jamie Ross and Connie Rubirosa were all stunning! 😉

[@altinkosova4120]

Iron Man = Phil Cerreta Bumblebee = Mike Logan Jazz = Donald Cragen Megatron = Benjamin Stone Starscream = Paul Robinette Soundwave = Adam Schiff

[@matthewforsyth284]

Uh no offence but don’t you mean ironhide?

[@mew10521]

Could you explain each one to me? Bumblebee is not a hot head like Detective Logan

[@Enr227]

Peacock stole eight seasons of Law and Order.

[@frostrose8222]

I think the main point of pro-life vs pro-choice is whether you view a fetus as a person or not. I personally, do not view a fetus as a person. I view it the same way I view a chicken egg, it has the potential to become a chick, but isn't one until it hatches.

[@frostrose8222]

@@theofficialbooknerd A chicken egg basically is a fetus, only it's not developing inside it's mother's body but inside an egg instead.

[@frostrose8222]

@@theofficialbooknerd Does that have any relevance to the point was was making? Also was using the word foul a pun?

[@notimportant3932]

exactly!!!

[@notimportant3932]

Exactly!

[@conephompany]

yes but we eat chicken, and we slaughter cows. if eating and slaughtering humans was the norm it would be, but it's not. so that clump of cells has value.

[@mrfivegold]

This was overreaching for the DA.

[@AndyCutright]

Such bull. There's no murder, attempted or otherwise, if there's no one to murder.

[@fandm_fun504]

See its the intent yes technically there was no one to murder but they didn't know that

[@biruss]

Legal impossibility

[@mikedavis8872]

According to New York state law a fetus is not a person unless they changed it.

[@jimboa20]

And yet if a third party assaults a pregnant woman and kills her fetus (but not her), that third party can be charged with murder. The logic behind whether a fetus is a human life or not is wildly inconsistent with both the law and even people in the pro-choice camp depending on the circumstances. One of the reasons I believe pro-choicers are all hypocrites, every last one of them.

[@TheGroundedAviator]

According too medicine it's when it has a clearly formed brain and internal organs.

[@ascensionblade]

I don't know how strongly held the idea was (or if it was just inappropriate brainstorming), but I remember a congressperson at least mentioning the idea that an infant shouldn't be a fully-protected person until it gets to the hospital's doors :(

[@biruss]

@@jimboa20 the mother was presumes to want the child. If mom does as well double homicide

[@SwampRattler08]

@@jimboa20 actually it makes perfect sense as the mother is presumed to want the child.

[@EducationInHistory]

This is so much better than SVU. This show is actually about LAW AND ORDER, not a feminine group therapy session. SVU is good and all but the original blows it out of the water.

[@sammiepittman3130]

attempted possession???!!?! Is this real??? Wtf how could someone prove beyond reasonable doubt that someone knew they were committing a crime?

[@Benkenobi8118]

"Selling 1 pound of heroin for x". Person shows up, buys the 'heroin' for x. You can prove that they paid x and you can prove they expected x was heroin because you don't pay x for sugar. I'd convict.

[@scottmatheson3346]

if you're going on some theory that the interior thoughts of a person are unknowable then you'd have to throw out all elements of the law that assess intent, and clearly our judicial system doesn't do that, so your idea of how reasonable doubt works in our system is wrong.

[@jonathancineus6424]

Never knew Grace Jones was in Law & Order

[@alexamorgan6153]

Jonathan Cineus 😂😂

[@eldiesel4593]

What's wrong with her face?

[@Sephiroth766]

She and her husband faked a mugging

[@tracymirkin4791]

first

[@jmichaelramirez2510]

I hate Been Stone, he's everything wrong with district attorneys.

[@matthewJ142]

You hate him then you hate McCoy just as much.

[@KS-qr1ry]

What, actually following the laws to get a conviction ?

[@biruss]

@@KS-qr1ry he ignored the doctrine of legal impossibility here

[@electroskates2434]

Ben Stone: The Good DA Jack McCoy: The skirt chaser Mike Cutter: Also the Good DA

[@MyAlessandro73]

i dont think he was ethical here they slime but inventing a charge to get even is not god

[@ellencarter8459]

These earlier eposides really highlighted the intricacies of the penal code and how that could work for and against justice. Fascinating stuff.

[@conephompany]

"What's wrong should not win by technicality, you know that yourself."

[@wymple09]

Worked for Ollie North.

[@michi6486]

Never has this been more timely and ignored ^^

[@MateusVIII]

It is a pretty fucked up statement though. There is no such a thing as "technicality" in law. What he means by that is that the law should not apply when I want to convict.

[@bwenluck9812]

@@MateusVIII Maybe it means that the law is written too vaguely to catch ALL the bad guys and should be re-written! Mmmmm.... 🤔

[@MateusVIII]

@@bwenluck9812 there is no problem with re-writing the law, but that is not a prossecutors job, it is the job of the legislature. Judicial activism like this is the begining of judicial populism which only serves to undermine the institutions and the law in the long run.

[@Joeybsmooth]

Schiff was right with his first stance. The law is the law, it is not moral.

[@Geotpf]

When the law is on your side but a jury will hate your guts, go for a bench trial. Have a judge decide things. He should follow the law precisely and ignore if you are slimy.

[@_bigmeatyclaws_]

This is like the famous dilemma of SpongeBob and Patrick stealing a balloon on free balloon day

[@AsianShadowrunner]

"The law should be a shield, not a sword." They can be both? 🤔

[@katiezee2]

I especially liked Adam's insults in later episodes, calling a reporter and an opposing attorney 'twerp' and 'pipsqueak'...How cool to cut somebody deep without foul language, with nothing but old fashioned insults

[@mikeg8375]

Steven Hill played that role to perfection. I've read that he even had a certain degree of influence on the writing of his character's lines. I'm sure people will disagree. But I think that he was the best actor in the history of the show. Sam Waterston said that once.

[@katiezee2]

@@mikeg8375 Did you know there's a real politician named Adam Schiff in the Calif House of Representatives, how cool is that. I'll bet he gets teased a lot by L&O fans

[@coffeeaddictexpress5038]

The one chick on OITNB got a lot of prison time for sell fake acid to her school. Even though it was harmless stuff a kid killed himself thinking he was high.

[@petervaczovsky9211]

There's also the other side of the coin. Yes, credibility IS an issue for the jury. There's also the point that the jury can infer whatever it wants to from the evidence. That's what Stone wanted to do. It wasn't just credibility, the evidence showed more than we thought, except Stone had to break their testimony, first.

[@GuitarVader_]

I really love Stone and Williamete. the interactions between these two are so captivating. I really wish we had more of them.

[@theduke7539]

this show is so old that the laws have actually changed and the public perception of the laws has actually changed

[@shadowcouncil9570]

Blu-ray!

[@ATBatmanMALS31]

Stone is the greatest DA in Law and Order. He is better than my own conscience on the best day. McCoy is better than me too, but not on my best day.

[@kdohertygizbur]

I always said Stone was the best

[@aggressiveattitudeera887]

Mike Kellerman from "Homicide: Life on the Street".

[@brianellinger6622]

That's john wathen. . He basically told me that he did that. . Along with that Muslim guy in the apartments above Safeway near the twinbrook metro station he laughed and told me that they gave it to him. I guess the agreement was that he would take care of me however you see me living in poverty and sleeping in the woods while he is living like a king

[@TheBatugan77]

Btw.. I'm going commando. Freeballing. Jiggling jewels. Bouncy wouncy. Feels good.

[@malloryanderson9098]

Iris Murdock had a storyline with the opening situation happening.

[@amakalorraine6213]

Ugh 😩

[@tacoheadmakenzie9311]

Brilliantly stated.

[@crimps321]

Omg, that guy I love from Dollhouse whose name I forget!

[@chicagomojo]

Reed Diamond?

[@gretchenjaenisch1826]

Ya gotta it. It's Reed Diamond.

[@dinojay8410]

Daniel Whitehall ... Agents of Shield ... and Ray Haffner in The Mentalist among other acting credits

[@lovewhitey2027]

Dollhouse is famous strip club in Fla ?😉

[@kirsyrosa2595]

Good Morning Bro

[@asecretone]

Love this episode because it mentions University of Wisconsin 😎

[@ammaraford]

My grad school.

[@nicholasmaude6906]

While McCoy was good watching this clip makes me miss Stone as IMO I think he was better than McCoy.

[@otaviofrn_adv]

Putting on a reality standpoint, McCoy was really extreme in his overall view of the law. Quoting the old tale, everything and everyone was a Hatfield to him. He would do anything to a win, even throw a tantrum or a innocent man in jail if it came to it. He saw is opinions as absolute and nothing else matters, and the law doesn't work like this. It's more (socially) acceptable early in life, but as you get promoted (IRL) you become less of a plaintiff and more of a supervisor of the law in the cases (in latin, the expression used is custus legis) and a supervisor of your own peers like Schiff was. Stone was more reasonable. He would be a great DA. Had a great view on things without trying to pass everything he did as canon. Another reasonable ADA was Rafael Barba from SVU

[@podsmpsg1]

A fetus IS a person, it's a living human.

[@notimportant3932]

But it's really not a living human. It's unborn and it's really not your concern steve.

[@conephompany]

@@notimportant3932 as far as our definition of life goes, it is a living thing, with human dna. passing through the birth canal does not infer personhood. and as a far as it being his concern, you should be glad he as it. Our world would not be the place it is without concerned citizens. They donate, they participate and they lend a hand.

[@biruss]

@Lizzie Allen because mom's autonomy was violated. Past viability is automatically double

[@scottmatheson3346]

@@conephompany so are the cells of henrietta lacks, but you don't pretend to believe they are people.

[@MrUndersolo]

Anyone else have a hankering for sugar?

[@September2004]

It was this episode that made me conclude that Donald Trump Jr committed attempted collusion.

[@greggh]

Back when it was so uncontroversial to say that a fetus is a baby, that you can say it in a prime time TV show. Wouldn't happen today.

[@zammmerjammer]

You obviously didn't watch the episode that tackles the hypocrisy of "pro-lifers" one season earlier. A fetus is not a baby. A point which is key to the events of this very episode. Which you haven't watched in full, obviously, in your eagerness to come into the comment section and make a fool of yourself.

[@mattkierkegaard9403]

@@zammmerjammer Yeah maybe but obviously you didn’t read the original post. The original post was highlighting how “uncontroversial” it was to have this scenario played out in a prime time tv show. It wouldn’t happen today. It wouldn’t happen today. In your eagerness to jump into the comment section and play sjw you’ve fallen for hysterics 😆

[@mantisxxx3656]

Omg I love this show!