A Replacement Tube Map?

[@whoami4597]

"You are the ungrateful cooperation to my lifetime of loyal service." Harry Beck

[@timc9298]

Do you mean corporation?

[@whoami4597]

@@timc9298 whoops yes

[@_AceInTheHole_]

Hooray map men reference

[@twixieshores]

​@_AceInTheHole_ it was actually Unfinished London, not Map Men

[@_AceInTheHole_]

@@twixieshores yeah I realised that immediately but when I went back in to correct it, I couldn't see it...

[@jonny_vdv]

Jago: "I'm not really a maps person" My brain: "MAP MEN, MAP MEN, MAP MAP MAP MEN MEN!"

[@nicktatters7523]

Map Man!! 🤣👍

[@EugeneMurray-z1b]

Map People...🤣

[@Chris-h3f5u]

@@jonny_vdv didn't I read that they are supposed to be doing a new series

[@jackmartinleith]

A random bloke I was chatting to asked me if I'd seen the latest Map Men video. After singing the magic words, I banged on about the whimsical genius of Jay Foreman and Mark Cooper-Jones. He was more interested in talking about Madison Avenue and account executives. This went on for several minutes until I realised he was talking about Mad Men.

[@_rupiks]

.. men men men men men men men men men men men men

[@richard4cz]

Your appearance in Jay's video on the tube map evolution was a delightful surprise

[@richcolour]

ᒡ◯ᵔ◯ᒢ

[@Ro99]

Did anyone know it was him before he said a variation of his outro line?

[@7takes]

@@Ro99 i could tell by the voice, yeah

[@isashax]

Absolutely loved too!

[@Ro99]

@benw1936 oh fair enough I was like I think this guy seems familiar but no idea who maybe he’s done this before and I haven’t realised or something

[@TalesOfWar]

Your portrayal of Harry Beck in Jay Foreman's videos was indeed the greatest honour anybody could bestow upon him. I also like to think you wear those incredibly goofy glasses when out in public which is how you're never bothered while stood there taking footage of trains coming and going at stations.

[@thisiszaphod]

With Harry Beck as inspiration, this one created a underground-style map for a care home, whose layout consisted of a warren of corridors and residents' rooms, and all the other areas you find in such, on three floors. It proved priceless for visitors, carer colleagues, and even the CQC inspectorate, whose representative remarked as such. Harry - thank you!

[@TalesOfWar]

You see maps like this all over the place for all manner of things. It truly is a design masterpiece in its simplicity.

[@thesteelrodent1796]

my local hospital looks like they used a Harry Beck style map as construction plans - lots of straight lines and only perpendicular intersections

[@0KiteEatingTree0]

I’ve realised now, this may be why you get painted lines in Airports and some hospitals, which also have colour coded waiting areas.

[@roderickmain9697]

The round is over-simplified and idealised into the round shape. Its less useful. The thing I would argue about the tube map is that its approximately correct for getting around real places.. Yes, we know the lines actually follow streets and there are some glaring idiocies where its faster to walk than take two tube trains. But overall, it still reflects what is above ground. That makes it useful. On the current tube map its maybe time to remove the little wheelchair symbols and replace them with another symbol for stations that DONT have step free access. IMHO, wheelchair users want to be just part of the crowd and not seen as having "special" exceptions made for them. It would declutter the map for everyone and over time, you wont need the differentiation anymore. Of course, if you just want to get from e A to B then an app which does the navigation (like google maps) is probably where we will end up.

[@O-sa-car]

yeah just combine the handicap symbol with the no circle

[@JackOfHarts96]

I agree with removing the wheelchair icons, but for a different reason. I won't comment on your reasoning, because I have no room to, as someone who's never used a wheelchair. I think they should be removed from the lines, but placed next to / above / below station names, maybe with different font colours / highlights to make them stand out. The problem with the circular icons on the lines is that they look almost exactly like an interchange, which makes interchange stations stand out less, and makes the map considerably more cluttered. That being said, your solution does sound like it could also declutter the current accessibility information too.

[@katrinabryce]

One example: Queensway and Bayswater are practically next door to each other, certainly quicker to walk between than doing some of the interchanges at Bank. Yet the tube map makes it look like you should want to change at Notting Hill Gate, which is basically going along the road one stop then doubling back on yourself.

[@katrinabryce]

@@JackOfHarts96 Maybe a separate map that shows only the accessible network? That would also highlight just how much of it is missing.

[@stevieinselby]

@@katrinabryce The problem with having a separate map is that the general usage will default to the one _without_ the accessibility information on "because it looks neater", and then people with accessibility needs have to go to extra effort to find the map they need rather than it being on the one that is displayed everywhere.

[@john1703]

"Portrayed by me in a couple of Jay Foreman's videos." Not to mention Charles T. Yerkes, with assistance from Geoff Marshall as Mr Pick.

[@AnnabelSmyth]

And the Tim Traveller - all our favourite transport nerds were gathered in one place!

[@Hiro_Trevelyan]

You'll always need a map to understand the scale of the whole network. But it's possible to use different maps for different uses and scales. The Paris transit uses a metro map for Paris and an RER map for regional transit, as well as a cartographic map of Paris that includes streets and monuments for tourists.

[@timw.8452]

When did they build a monument for a tourist?

[@skyblazeeterno]

I agree but it's a bit messy nowadays especially at certain busy interchanges I suspect the best option is a digital map where you can easily filter out stuff...just want zones 1 and 2 stuff...click and hey presto...just want want buses in zones 4 and 5 click...and hey presto again. I was looking for a map which only showed underground services in zone 1...should be easy...no...I ended up editing a screen shot of the standard map removing non tube lines

[@ianpatterson6552]

Somewhat off topic. The Museum Of London recently rediscovered a bricked set of vaults under one of the Smithfield Markets. There was a rail link to the place circa 1900. If Jago has the Museum on speed dial, perhaps he could take a gander for us. The vaults roof is keeping Farringdon Road up.

[@grandaddyoe1434]

Walking down the ramp to the underground car park at Smithfield and inside the site, one can become aware of the old rail connections. Much discernment is required though.

[@ianpatterson6552]

@@grandaddyoe1434 that’s interesting to know, thanks. Jago’s the man to discern such things.

[@General_Confusion]

Crazy idea, who's going to pay for re-digging all those tunnels to look like that? And what about the river, it will be chaos moving that.

[@apolloc.vermouth5672]

Well, quite. And how are the tube trains going to take those 90 degree corners, eh?

[@maifantasia3650]

@@apolloc.vermouth5672 - very, very slowly and with much scraping of steel and paintwork.

[@skidawg22]

And you did a good job in Jay Foreman's videos.

[@GaryB007]

I've made a tube style map of all of the pubs in St Albans. It was originally for my own amusement, but I posted it on a few local Facebook groups and there was massive interest in it, so I had some printed. They've sold very well.

[@jh-ec7si]

Were you aware of the Abbey Line Rail Ale Trail a few years back? Sadly some of the pubs have closed since but it was an interesting mix of rail and pub.

[@edrubin6042]

I still appreciate a paper map. There's the tactile feel of it, and the overview, and it never loses signal or runs out of battery. I think this may be more important out in the woods where I do most of my map reading but it's still a consideration in cities. I've used the tube map and appreciate how readable it is but my favorite transit map is still Massimo Vignelli's 1973 NYC Subway map which adds some Italian flair to a system almost as big as London's

[@skyblazeeterno]

A tip. Download the tfl standard tube map as a pdf and you can use a viewer. No signal problem but still have the power loss problem

[@AnthonyMcGowan]

When I arrived in London in the early 80's I was told that to navigate around London I needed two things a AtoZ streetmap book and a tube map, they were correct

[@stephenwilliams1269]

The A-Z was in black and white too.

[@HJJSL-bl8kk]

I still carry an A to Z and a tube map in my bag. I just have a basic non-smart phone and I do prefer a proper map.

[@stephenlee5929]

My A-Z has the Tube map on the back cover. So Tube map is redundant.

[@HJJSL-bl8kk]

@@stephenlee5929 I like the old-school tri-fold tube map. It's satisfyingly familiar. I had a tube map about my person long before I had an A to Z.

[@tonysheerness2427]

AtoZ had a tube map on the back cover.

[@BusstterNutt]

Thank you for all the hard work in making these excellent videos.

[@lukewolsey]

We had a weeks holiday in London earlier this month, and as soon as we got to Liverpool Street I picked up my little paper copy of the map and it stayed in my pocket the rest of the trip. I tried the TfL Go app but didn't understand how to use it and was very happy to refer back to my paper map.

[@walkingguy6409]

I just went for a 3 day holiday and was recommended the CityMapper app by my brother and it worked for me

[@peterryrfeldt8568]

Here in Stockholm we have a sort of three teir system, each line has a diagram used on the stations that show where on the line you are, what stations have interchanges to what lines (using symbols next to the station name) and with parts of the line you access from a different platform/branch grayed out, one tube map with only the proper metro lines, and one rail network map with all trams and commuter trains and such too, I think its a very good solution, that and not having fare zones

[@andrewhotston983]

I bought a copy of 'A Child of the Jago' by Arthur Morrison, today. A Penguin Book from 1946. Can't imagine why it caught my eye...

[@Anonymoususer_8823]

Harry Beck would appreciate this video. He really would. Love how he designed the London Underground tube map with all sorts of colours and stations being added to his design.

[@johnwong2716]

you are not a map person but you are in the map men! ;)

[@pras12100]

At 05:25 Jago says: "If there's one thing you can't map it's the future". But at every conference I have ever attended someone will have a presentation along the lines of "A Roadmap to the Future of our Products". They show what new things they are working and roughly when they think these things are going to be released (or whatever). I am sure that at Gamescom (currently on in Cologne, Germany) there are loads of such presentations.

[@Tokkemon]

I was waiting for the line "I'm not a map person, I just play one on TV."

[@mfaizsyahmi]

MTA's new digital (aka online) map is interesting in that on a grand scale they are more like Beck's but as you zoom in it transitions to conform to the geography of the city. I think TfL should take note.

[@norbitonflyer5625]

0:44 - I like the way the Circle Line is the shape of the Roundel

[@teecefamilykent]

Brilliant video sir!

[@rupep2424]

I like the spider web effect of this 'map' - a London-wide web - for connecting commuters & trapping tourists 😮. I hope there'll be a Halloween edition

[@AFCManUk]

After using, quite successfully, the Harry Beck design Tube Map for most of my life, I find the circular one hurts my eyes!

[@richard-mtl]

I'm the co-founder of the Transit Mapping Symposium (shameless self-promotion, look for our KZbin channel for videos from our recent edition). I work for one of those apps that you mention but don't name, since I love all things public transport, but I also firmly believe that maps themselves will always be important for people, to get a sense of place and context as to where the apps are guiding them. Much better to be able to look at a map and say "Ah yes, I need to get off in 3 changes, change there, then 2 more stations to my destination" then have to rely on apps which don't always work well underground (though the one I work for does work underground now 😉). In any case, transit maps will always be important, they just need to be adapted to modern usage patterns.

[@MartinIbert]

I think humans would like some graphical representation of the network. Doesn't have to printed on paper. But I think an overall map will remain popular for a long time to come.

[@Pashizzle500]

I could probably rely on google maps to take me anywhere I wanted to go, but like a lot of Londoners (ok probably more than most) I've absorbed the tube and rail maps into how I think of the network and the city itself.

[@PhillipBicknell]

'Hari Seldon' has entered the conversation 🙂 Joking aside, it occurs to me that the paper-map problem might be best solved by using the same method as the A-Z maps - have Zones 1 & 2 to a larger 'scale' on one sheet and the whole shebang on a second sheet.

[@KidarWolf]

It could also be helpful for outer zones to have quartered enlarged versions too - divide the map into quarters and enlarge it much the same as Zones 1 and 2.

[@racg174]

i like when jago makes a pun so badgood he cant decide if hes pleased with himself or ashamed

[@markcundiff3992]

...or both in equal measure....

[@tsegulin]

When visiting I get around London with City Mapper, which manages the complex transit system pretty well. I still carry large scale map images (including one showing the location of lavatories on the Tube) just in case. Thanks again Jago.

[@EdMcF1]

I keep seeing 'Sunwheels' in it, a variant of a well-known logo that came to notoriety in Europe in the 1930s.

[@gracewenzel]

Ah, everyone has already made all of the Jay Foreman references. Serves me right for not being punctual

[@kimvibk9242]

I share your pain...😖

[@truckerallikatuk]

It was a signalling issue at Green Park, as usual.

[@WyvernYT]

You are the redundancy to our Harry Beck allusions.

[@tristacker]

I saw this map in the newspaper and have been expecting your take on it since. I'm glad I was not disappointed.

[@pilnes]

My favourite is the anagram tube map. Some of the alternative names are truly inspired. My local station comes out as Escargot News. 😊

[@chase14000]

Massive respect to your contribution on designing the now well-known tube map!

[@maxresdefault_]

I had absolutely no idea that was you in Jay's tube map videos! Awesome

[@ChoobChoob]

3:24 You should get those shot-glass eyes check out. You need them for looking at train things.

[@neilbain8736]

You're right. Complexity is an issue. People don't know what they never needed till someone gets there first and reflects what they need. There's various graphic design rules but the round maps seem to work despite conflict. They're different enough so they might inspire a solution, thinking laterally- outside the box.

[@DeanStephen]

I suspect the public outcry and backlash, perhaps even worldwide, would be so intense that trying to rollout such a radical new design would be a huge and embarrassing waste of time and money. BTW, the fact that the Beck map is still so useful, despite all the upgrades, almost a century latter is testament to its genius.

[@tango6nf477]

There's an old saying that it it isn't broken don't mess with it because you'll only b++++r it up! I say leave it alone, we're used to it.

[@hilosky]

I was indifferent to the circular map. Until a work colleague challenged me to find a few stations on the new map. Without fail, and as someone who avoids the tube mostly, I could find them all in less than two seconds. With the blurry, out of focus map printed in the newspaper. So don't write it off till you give it a chance

[@cdl0]

This video is the perfect partner to go with the later episode "Multi-Track Drifting on the London Underground" by Jago Hazzard, no less.

[@stephendavies6949]

As I guess were many of your long-term viewers, I was waiting for the "I'm not really a map man" line. We were not disappointed! Personally, I like maps, the Tube & Jowett's Atlas being my favourites.

[@MonopodMan]

I come into this video having just watched Jay Foreman's Tube Map videos

[@waitingfortheknock]

The simple solution, as I can see it, for the amount of stuff now on the map, is make it A4 size. It's only difficult to read and cramped now because it's printed on a tiny sheets. They tried it in the 80s, looked ok then.

[@Rohan-iq6zb]

If they do that they might as well include National Rail too and get rid of pointless clutter like accessibility symbols.

[@waitingfortheknock]

@Rohan-iq6zb wouldn't really need to add National rail or remove anything, just keep it as is, just print a larger size of it's current format. Bigger fonts, symbols etc, something you won't need a magnifying glass to read.

[@KidarWolf]

@@Rohan-iq6zb Accessibility symbols are crucial for disabled people using the network, removing them would be severely disadvantaging them, so I can't agree with that, unless your proposal is to clutter the map with symbols explicitly showing which stations are not accessible/step free?

[@Rohan-iq6zb]

@@KidarWolf The accessibility information is useless when it comes to certain interchanges or travelling in different directions. It only half works. Frequent disabled users never use it. They should just advertise the proper accessibility map from the website which has all the information one needs. They could hang it up at stations too.

[@zork999]

I happen to be sitting here near Seattle wearing my Circular Underground Map T-shirt, which I bought at the London Transport Museum Gift Shop on Saturday.

[@davidhumble1679]

.. I'm in Wellington NZ with a framed 1936 Beck poster behind me in my home office

[@MichaelTavares]

I like when he said “if there’s one thing you can’t não, it’s the future”

[@simonchandler9601]

Upon visiting the Tate Modern I came across ‘The Great Bear’ (1992) by Simon Patterson where he took the London Tube Map and renamed the stations. What tickled me was the Circle Line with Philosophers.

[@JackOfHarts96]

1:24 "I'm not really a maps person, I just played one in Jay Foreman's videos."

[@OfflineSetup]

you know it’s not a map.

[@JackOfHarts96]

@@OfflineSetup Everyone including TfL still calls it a Tube Map, you pedant.

[@hairyairey]

​@@JackOfHarts96It's called the tube map even though it's not a map and not just the tube. It's rapidly becoming the London Connections map from the 1990s.

[@toni4729]

I still like the one we use, it's easy to read and we know where are on it. So we know where we're going.

[@0KiteEatingTree0]

I remember the uproar when TFL decided to remove the river from the map . I still lived in London, and apart from the fact it’s a key navigation point, there’s river services.

[@TheEarlofK]

I keep the standard Tube map on my phone, I'm pretty familiar now with all the lines, but it always comes in handy to check unfamiliar connections.

[@TheIMMVP]

Easy to make maps that look nicer when you don't need to worry about including things like zones and different levels of accessibility symbols and such. They're what make it really complicated.

[@tantaf123]

these jago videos just keep getting better and better and every video he uploads is even more interesting than the last!

[@mjh4444444]

until this one

[@alejandrayalanbowman367]

I've always loved Harry Beck's map from even before I knew it was by him. It is/was accurate and still means more than any Tfl trivia.

[@MagnaLynx21]

I can't believe Harry Beck himself would question his own map!

[@tomburke5311]

I suspect that most of us watching and commentating here can get along with the current map because we're used to it - we've grown up with it, if you like. We're not approaching it from the perspective of a first-time visitor to London from elsewhere in the world, and possibly not a native English speaker. Sometimes I wonder just how useable the current map is to such a person.

[@stellatilly9911]

I noticed that not only is this new map circular, but it resembles the underground roundel by looking at the district, circle and H+C lines. Much like how our current one has the bottle shape… Also appreciate how the two overground lines that meet at Highbury and Islington and Clapham Junction make up their own circuit

[@christophermatthews6972]

'The Outer Circle' has returned.

[@Eddyspeeder]

Oddly though, the way you said "...it's the FUTURE!" had me expecting an evil "Muhahahaha!" to follow it.

[@Andrewjg_89]

The London tube map will always evolve with more new lines and stations being added. Including the proposed Crossrail 2, London Overground taking over metro services in Southwest London, South London and Southeast London. The DLR extension to Thamesmead and of course HS2.

[@markdonovan6810]

Don't mess with perfection it's easy to read simple to use, so hands off.

[@dancedecker]

Excellent video. Thank you, Jago. I once heard an amusing quote about maps. 'A map tells you everything you need to know....except how to fold it back up again.' Very true. Lol.

[@Locutus]

This is where multiple map types are needed. Not everyone finds the Circuit map easy to understand. Having a circular map or other style that are easier to read or able to display more information might help with navigation.

[@PokhrajRoy.]

HARRY BECK GRACING US WITH HIS DIVINE PRESENCE AND ICONIC EYEWEAR 🙏🏾

[@iankemp1131]

The Harry Beck map leads your eye nicely along the route of each line so you can see where it goes and thus how you connect to get from A to B. The circular map unfortunately doesn't do that because of the bends and discontinuities. To deal with the complexity it's probably best to have a separate map for the central area (similar to Harry Beck's original concept) and a larger map for the Greater London area including Network Rail that shows all the alternatives. Both exist online and you can zoom in and out on the latter which can help.

[@palpytine]

For those who were wondering, look at the JayForeman video titled "The Tube Map nearly looked very different". I hope they let Jago keep the glasses...

[@andyholmes7901]

Just cos I'm a codger and know what I know! and what I am used to, it tells you everything you need to know... and these days google maps shows you in relation to where you want to go...so leave it alone. and btw I love your vids and would love to come on a photo shoot with you.

[@Roblilley999]

The one thing you can't map is the future - Jago Hazzard 2024

[@sh8736]

I wish the two branches of the northern line could be in different colours! Despite regular travel in London over a number of years I managed to get on the wrong branch this week whoops! And the number of passengers at Euston scratching their heads over the northern/Victoria line platform map said it all….

[@Chris-h3f5u]

I think you are right Jago the maps will go down the touch screen route..I'm sure you will be able to have layers ie some showing tube only, coaches and buses, br local services of which you could interlope as and when required

[@ricktownend9144]

Absolutely agree about Superloop needing to be on the map - but, as you say, it's getting complex.

[@LMHPhilly]

The best was saved for last: "there is one thing you can't map THE FUTURE".

[@jacksonmacmanus1001]

"im not really a maps person" says Jago who appeared in a Jay Foreman video ABOUT MAPS!

[@tooleyheadbang4239]

"I'm not really a person person"

[@LivelyPaint]

Wait, that was YOU in the Map Men video?!?

[@markomarten]

A physical tube map is always worth having, the reliance of apps is a mixed blessing as it were. Personally I think the tube is better now than it has been, my only complaint is the ever present dirt that is almost caked on like a lasagne of dust to mix my phrasing up. I don’t know why the tube can’t be steam cleaned, it might help to make the journeys a bit more pleasant. The open carriage trains seem to be more popular and they allow you to move around a bit so you can possibly find a seat for the remaining part of your journey. It’s come a long way has the tube and still it soldiers on, many of us take it for granted and not given it a second thought. Imagine London without the tube, it would be crazy and you wouldn’t get a seat on the bus either.

[@mattpotter8725]

My opinion on the Tube Map is that in general if it ain't broke don't fix it. Yes it may be getting more and more cluttered, but unless it becomes so cluttered as to become unusable I say keep it as it is. Whilst I do totally agree that you can't use the Tube Map as being very accurate in terms of distances above ground having things geographically arranged is much better than having them just arranged in a less cluttered, more aesthetically pleasing way. There are already different maps for the TfL network of services with things like rail lines on them they just aren't the standard cut down one. If anyone wants to use the round circuit diagram keep I'm sure it's available somewhere so if it becomes really popular then I'm sure I'll have to eat my words, but in the end I don't expect this to be the case. I have a lovely book about the history and evolution of the Tube Map with all the old maps and the new ones (up to when it was printed obviously) which I would recommend to anyone interested in study things, Yours sincerely, A Map Man!!!

[@jamesbutler6253]

Harry Hazzard has a nice ring to it.

[@mrb.5610]

Kinda used to 'electronic maps' now anyway. I keep a old AA road atlas in the car and had cause to use it recently as my phone battery had died. It took me a few seconds of looking for my 'current location blue circle' to remember that this doesn't happen with old fashioned paper !

[@SoiBuakhaoRoutemasterbus]

We don't have a tube/Underground map anymore, we haven't had one for years sadly!...... What we have now is a total clusterf*** of chaos..... in reality a TfL Rail Map. London Overground and Crossrail (Elizabeth Line) are National Rail services, they accept the All Line and various other Rovers that the lines cover, so are not 'tube' lines or services. It should either revert to being an Underground lines map or lay it to rest......

[@PhyllisJerry]

Now I am but a mere American, but I’ve never understood why TfL tries to cram the Tube, Overground and DLR all on one map. Wouldn’t it make more sense to have separate maps for each, with little roundels denoting interchanges, like how National Rail stations are shown? The combined map would still be shown at interchanges themselves, but non-interchange stations could probably get by with just a map of whichever network they’re on. The extra few seconds it takes to stop and look at a second map seems to me like a reasonable price to pay for greater readability.

[@francesconicoletti2547]

As an Australian who is in the mist of having three different railed transportation networks imposed on him in the capital city of his state, I have to ask, why should the commuter care what gauge or historical accident of a network they have to use to get from point a to point b in a city ? Explain to a standard tourist to pick up three maps for the tube, most of which is above ground, the overground, that from memory does run underground or the Light Rail which is practically indistinguishable from the other two and you are just going to get puzzled looks even before you tell them to joint the maps together.

[@kjh23gk]

Most people don't even consider those three things to be different. To them they are just trains, so why shouldn't they be on the same map?

[@iankemp1131]

What would help better to focus on the key things is a separate map for the central area (a minor update on the Harry Beck map keeping its clarity and elegance) and a larger overall map showing all the possible connections (including Network Rail south of the Thames). LT already do this, or at least those maps can be found online. The second type was originally the "London Connections" map when it first appeared about 30 years ago (round when Thameslink was opened IIRC).

[@KidarWolf]

I can think of a sensible solution to that utilizing transparent sheets as overlays. Imagine if you the tube was on your opaque sheet, and attached to one side as a flip out/fold back is your Overground map, and attached on the other as a flip out/fold back was your DLR? If you wanted to get fancy, you could utilize the long sides for a ferry and bus map too. That way, the layers you don't want to use can be folded back, and the ones you do want to use can be folded forward, immediately decluttering it and distilling it only to information helpful to you.

[@mzxeternal]

The round map is cool, but the underground map is too iconic to replace. They should use that round map for a regional service map for greater London featuring all the modes of travel. New York has done similar in the past with both a regional map for the greater area, as well as the preferred NYC subway map. They even use the classic "Vignelli" map (which was hated by New Yorkers for not being geographically accurate) online for a weekend service map which shows what the system looks like on weekends due to maintenance disruptions. (And people seem to like it in that capacity). There's always uses for different takes on transit maps. It would make sense for London to have a regional service map which includes all the modes of travel, and given Londoners preference for a non-geographical map, this seems like a great fit for that. Great video as always!

[@grandaddyoe1434]

Big maps of all lines do exist - but on mainline railway stations. They're necessarily huge . . .

[@jamesbutler6253]

An RT bus on Westminster Bridge! 😮😮😮 Private of course.

[@DavidShepheard]

I think my problem with people who complain about the TfL map no longer being fit for purpose, is that they are looking to pick apart the map, rather than actually proposing solutions. One of the solutions to the map being "too complicated" is that you do not actually need to have everything on the map. Back before TfL stopped providing them, I used to get the Travelcard wallets that had a fold up London Connections map in them. I would use the London Underground map, when I was travelling on London Underground. And I would pull out my London Connections map, if I wanted to get off of London Underground. Sure, the London Underground map doesn't have a lot going on in South London. But, as a South Londoner, I was aware that the train operating companies in South London would charge me extra money for going on their trains. Before the Zones were introduced to National Rail, those companies were positively discriminating against passengers who came onto their system from London Underground. I spent most of my childhood avoiding British Rail and mostly sticking to London Underground to save my pocket money. I just didn't need to know where British Rail went to, because they didn't want me on their system. Even when the GLC announced the Fares Fair policy in 1981, this was fought by politicians who wanted passengers on London Underground and London Busses to get charged more money. And it wasn't until 1985 that the Capital Card started and the stupidity of blocking passengers from using whatever mode of transport is flowing the best started to end. So we didn't really need combined maps of all the public transport before 1985, because a bunch of people didn't want us to use the connections. The Capitalcard brand ended in 1989. And in 1991 Travelcard Zone 5 was split into two zones so that train operating companies with routes into London could extract more money from passengers in the outer suburbs of London. One of the primary benefits of London Overground, is not that Transport for London is "better" at running trains that the other train operating companies. The benefit is that TfL is here to provide a service and not to fleece Londoners for as much money as it can get. So, I would be quite happy to continue to have a two-map solution: * One map for TfL services, where the Mayor of London can use that system to lower car dependency and raising air quality and * A second London Connections map, where we also have a diagram that shows routes controlled by organisations who do not have the interest of Londoners front-and-centre. My long term hope is that more of the services currently only seen on the London Connections map are canibalised by Transport for London. Ideally I would love to see: * Thameslink handed over to TfL and eventually run by the same team that runs Crossrail, * The East Croydon to Watford Junction line handed over to TfL rebranded as "West London Crossrail" and promised more trains per hour after HS2 opens, * Crossrail 2 built and other Crossrail lines (that hook up railways on one side of London to railways on the other side of London) planned to follow, * The Bakerloo and Victoria lines to be extended as far into South East London as possible and * Other railways that terminate inside London or near to London rationalised into simple London Overground services that do one thing very well. If we go down that route, the Beck map will eventually become identical to the London Connections map. We will have one public transport system for London owned by Londoners and run for the benefit of London. And of people need to fold the map up, like I used to do back in the days I was able to get a fold up map in my Travelcard wallet, that's fine by me. In the meantime, I think it is fine to cast shade on railways that are being run suboptimally, by having those services excluded from the Beck map.

[@shedcastle]

Good one jago 👍

[@tlillis4]

An expurgated comment: In the late 1960s the (then new) MTA came out with a New York subway map in the style of Harry Beck. Everybody hated, HATED it. Prior maps looked very much like the pre-Beck maps of the Tube and had the same problem. Ah, (to shorten the story) since New Yorkers are… {ahem}… not noted for their forbearance a new design was swiftly made. This is the design used today which is generally well regarded - perhaps one of the few items on which New Yorkers can agree. It, too, has the problem that Mr. Hazzard mentioned is as much as the system has grown and become more complex. But the New York map works for New Yorkers and the Tube map works for Londoners; how it ought to be I recon.

[@seanbonella]

Looks not too bad.... Great again JH

[@annetteconroy6921]

New Zealand public transport maps look like the Beck maps. They are handy for passengers. But then all our rail is on straight lines and doesn't branch out through the suburbs. Maybe the future will bring us expanded rail and and a different form of map here

[@aethellstan]

two maps required. one has underground; cable car; dlr and trams (the treason for these other misc routes is that they are generally where the underground isn't and therefore no "noise"), the other has the rest. show interchanges on both. far less cluttered and messy and easier to use. have them, of course, side by side for ease of use.

[@jijichooo]

1:25 May I ask why you decided to visit Croxley station in the clips from this? Probably the only piece of footage I have seen of it outside of videos on the station itself :)

[@bostonrailfan2427]

i know the Underground is obsessed with roundels but this is taking it a but extreme. then again, it’s the most London thing I’ve seen 🤣 can’t wait for Geoff Marshall to gush over how clever, unique, and exciting it is 🙄

[@katrinabryce]

I always use the London Rail and Tube Services Map rather than the Tube map. Even that isn't complete though. For example Reading, Redhill and Gatwick Airport are all on the map. There is a direct train service that links those three stations which isn't on the map.

[@DavidNewmanDr]

The circular maps are another reason for an update to the Map Men video on the tube maps.

[@southcalder]

While the London Underground map is getting a bit unwieldy, it’s a design classic, and one which I’m prepared to take up arms to defend. We used to have a great rail map here in Strathclyde, and it has since been utterly ruined by ScotRail, who have tried (and failed) to expand it to the whole of central Scotland.

[@geoffrandall186]

Just to let you know that in our local paper today is an article about Mr Roberts who lives in my area at Walton On Naze Essex

[@MrGreatplum]

Harry Beck’s map is a work of genius. I’m not sure that making everything circular improves it

[@unclenogbad1509]

I'm fighting the urge to just want what I'm familiar with, so am trying to view this new map on it's own merits. As such, I'm not so sure it's quite as easy to follow - not from unfamiliarity, but from logic. What makes the old map so usable is that it is organic, it has developed and adapted to cope with all the various changes and complications imposed since it first arrived in embryonic form. The new idea does not have such benefit, and seems more about graphic design than usability. It may well work, but not from day 1. Then again, as you say, it's not strictly a map, rather a diagram. What you want to know isn't the street layout, but your journey - the trains and changes you need to get from A to B. Personally, I think too much is crammed together for the sake of the layout, and if you can't follow it with your eyes alone, but need to run your finger over it, then it fails.

[@ROCKINGMAN]

The Harry Beck diagramatic map is a great design. Fit for purpose and exactly what the user needs. Where to change and how many stations to next stop etc. The radical circular design is supposed to be better from a psychologiacl point of view making the user think that London is better served in certain areas. I hate it. It's all based around an obvious circle and not representative of the railways in London. Harold F. Hutchinson updated it in 1961 and Paul E. Garbutt updated it in the 70's. Would be nice to see the Harry Beck map back to it's original form, include the Thames, omit Thameslink, print on thick cardboard and have the underground logo on. Something more akin to the 60's look.

[@Demun1649]

I think a new map is just what is needed. It would, instantly, render every station with level access, so the disabled can use every station, rather than just getting closer. And, again instantly, every kind of mobility scooter and powered wheelchair will be allowed to travel on every train, with no need to book the ramps or call forward to the destination, so the ramp can be ready there. London Transport dragged into the 1990s, at long last, and England following along 40 years behind LT.