A Republican Pollster on Trump’s Undimmed Appeal

The fact that Donald Trump is the front-runner for the G.O.P. nomination in 2024 has created a chasm in our politics. In the past, Democrats and Republicans at least understood why members of the other party liked their chosen candidates. Most conservatives weren’t confused why liberals liked Barack Obama, and vice versa for George W. Bush. But for a lot of Democrats, it feels impossible to imagine why anyone would cast a vote for Trump. And as a result, the two parties don’t just feel hostile toward each other; they feel increasingly unknowable.
Kristen Soltis Anderson is a veteran Republican pollster, a founding partner of the opinion research firm Echelon Insights and a CNN contributor. She spends her days trying to understand the thinking of Republican voters, including hosting focus groups for New York Times Opinion. So I wanted to get her insights on why Republicans like Trump so much - even after his 2020 electoral loss, the Jan. 6 insurrection and over 90 criminal charges. What really explains Trump’s enduring appeal?
Mentioned:
Researcher application (nytimes.wd5.myworkdayjobs.com...)
Associate engineer application (nytimes.wd5.myworkdayjobs.com...)
Gallup's Presidential Job Approval Center (news.gallup.com/interactives/...)
Book Recommendations:
Subtract (us.macmillan.com/books/978125...) by Leidy Klotz
Party of the People (www.simonandschuster.com/book...) by Patrick Ruffini
Welcome to the O.C. (www.harpercollins.com/product...) by Josh Schwartz, Stephanie Savage and Alan Sepinwall
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [e-mail].
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast (www.nytimes.com/column/ezra-k...) , and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-... (www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-...) .
This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Kristin Lin. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, Kate Sinclair and Mary Marge Locker. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Annie Galvin and Rollin Hu. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.

[@MaryRoseLaughing]

FY New York Times. I am 80. I am a writer. I am writing about your detioration over the years.

[@stephenboyington630]

Not everyone is a silly partisan. As a person who is not a silly partisan, it frustrates me to no end how silly many other people are.

[@dewittcheng4009]

"Nazis - I hate those guys." :-)

[@Stoddardian]

@@dewittcheng4009 Nice Hollywood propaganda.

[@dangavel1283]

A 'little " bit divided, ? INCREDIBLY divided more like......

[@jamesbutler1831]

Agree. We are so divided that we can't even have an intelligent conversation about issues anymore. We live in 2 different realities depending on where we get our information. It's all very exhausting and troublesome.

[@_JamesManning]

New Hampshire. Highly educated. One of the wealthiest states in America. Libertarian and less religious. A haven for Haley. That’s where it ends.

[@TTFMjock]

“Educated”….really?

[@user-on5mf7fk3b]

LOL. It doesn't even begin there. Trump is clobbering her by 16 point in NH.

[@1871corporationUSA]

Haley is Hitlery Cliton light. She's part of the problem that needs to get out of American politics

[@JamesEdwards-td7bi]

Nikki Haley can’t win as Rino, and she is a win for Joe Biden. Fact

[@settitoma5891]

If they vote for Haley, they are the farthest thing from "educated". Pretentious? Moronic? Traitors? Those are closer.

[@christopherwb1]

I dread this year primarily because it will consist, almost entirely, of two, in most cases mutually exclusive, things: overwhelming anxiety plus overwhelming monotony - a combination of terror and boredom that, I am told, is usually reserved for soldiers in the midst of war. But then - all of us in the United States seem to be living, at least psychologically, at the white hot center of a war.

[@settitoma5891]

We are in a War. They tried killing everyone in the country with a bioweapon. They are trying to get rid of the Constitution. They already disregard the damn thing almost completely, but they are now legitimately trying to rip the thing up. They are going after people because of their religious beliefs or political affiliations (just to name two) while all the people crying that they're victims are getting promotions. Kids are being shown adult graphic materials in school instead of being taught how to read. They are ripping down statues of our founding fathers while allowing MILLIONS of people who aren't being asked to assimilate and contribute, to enter the country illegaly. God is mocked while degenerates are turned into heroes. The nuclear family is destroyed. I could go on and on. Are you kidding me? Better late than never I guess.

[@AroundTheWorldWithEase]

Take heart; there is no question Trump will win.

[@user-cj8vw3gl6o]

How much do you think the present government positions regarding the wars in Israel-Palestine and Russia-Ukraine will influence the elections?

[@richarddietzen3137]

A large flow of refugees out of either country into the UK and US might not be as destabilizing to liberal democracies as were the Syrians, but combined with mass immigration across the U.S. Southern border, would be devastating to American and European democracy as already seen in parts of Europe and the EU. Putin knows this, and is hoping another destabilizing wave will elect friendly autocrats, as in Hungary, and arguably Israel. He’s trying to make a Syria out of Ukraine. Americans don’t like a president that declares defeat in war.

[@GeniusVL]

Regarding the intro, I think the factors to election day are also terrifying. What if there is an early winter snowstorm over much of the Midwest on election day this November? Does it depress participation, or favor mail-in ballots, or something else? What if No Labels? What if, what if...

[@kevinfalcao8657]

THE PIED PIPER IS IN TOWN . LISTEN CAREFULLY , HE THINKS HE DOES WHAT HE SAYS. BE SURE YOU DON'T LAND IN THE RIVER HE IS LEADING YOU TO .

[@jamiepaulzine6725]

Exits polls show ppl still want a upheaval in gov

[@jamiepaulzine6725]

We want the next leader to be similar to Trump. Thats why desantis should have waited til 28 then he could have probably walked to the nomination in 28 etc

[@amosbatto3051]

Finally, someone asks whether Bernie Sanders would have made a better president than Joe Biden. If Bernie were president, the Democrats would not be losing the youth and Latinos. We would have a president capable of campaigning against Trump.

[@gogudelagaze1585]

We'd also have a Ukraine with much less support from the US, likely under Russian occupation by now. edit: Should clarify - he now has a good position on Ukraine, but in the first few critical months he was quite a bit more hesitant about providing weapons.

[@MichaelJohnson-vi6eh]

Its a very interesting perspective saying "I'm the brand new face of the conservative party!!" I look backwards in a progressive way. HUH??

[@caseymckenzie4760]

How long do you expect working poor people to watch their living standards decline before they throw a brick through the window? Trump is that brick.

[@keep-ukraine-free528]

@caseymckenzie4760 So why don't they understand that their "brick" did nothing for them (except to make us see they're violent). They need to look in the mirror. Each such voter should ask themselves: Are they looking for a free Handout from govt, or Are they willing to make changes in themselves/their life (e.g., to educate themselves) so they can get a better job? What do you want?

[@TTFMjock]

@@keep-ukraine-free528 THEYRE violent? You people are beyond clueless.

[@caseymckenzie4760]

You are right. Poor people should shut up and keep voting for establishment politicians because they are doing a great job for the people. ​@@keep-ukraine-free528

[@caseymckenzie4760]

​@@keep-ukraine-free528well someone needs to look in the mirror. 😂

[@caseymckenzie4760]

​Is Raytheon looking for a hand out? Are BlackRock looking for a hand out? They are the only ones who should be voting for establishment politicians.@@keep-ukraine-free528

[@DesmondBedarte]

I will be happy when public speakers such as this podcaster begin to move away from the chronic overuse of the word "right" as a form of verbal self-affirmation of a point they are trying to make.

[@dane3038]

We all know it's a manipulation tool, right?

[@AzEagletarian]

I maintain that Trump's "undimmed appeal" is the unfortunate by-product of corporate news (notably, NYTimes) validating and NORMALIZING him as a result of the demise of the business model due to disruptive technological innovations.

[@Stoddardian]

The media has been normalizing degeneracy for 50 years. Cry me a river.

[@zuzanazuscinova5209]

That's certainly a part of it.

[@mariannabauerlein9486]

WE WANT RULE OF LAW, TERM LIMITS, A SECURE BORDER, A PRESIDENT WHO DOESN'T REPEATEDLY FALL .ONE NOT WEAPONIZING FBI& CIA

[@amosbatto3051]

Yes, we want a president who organized a fake electors scheme to try to steal the 2020 election and overthrow American democracy.

[@mats66]

Who would give you this?

[@gregcarlson8660]

Nikki would be harder to debate, but easier to beat. If anything happens to Trump, MAGA would just cuss and fume for a while, and then give up on politics altogether, and not vote.

[@jamiepaulzine6725]

Its policy and show your working for us.

[@billcoleman4258]

Ezra managed to avoid dealing with the Lawfare attack against Trump, which may result in Trump’s reelection, and which certainly helps explain Trump’s hold on voters.

[@stephenbonaduce7852]

Excellent interview; terrific guest! Thanks!

[@CRAIGTEMPLATEXCHRIST]

I’ve listened to a few of the NYT podcasts today and it’s all been very interesting content

[@glennmitchell9107]

There are no foreign analogs of Trump. Anyone who thinks there are lacks sophistication and care. United States politics and political history are entirely different from European and South American politics and political history. Any perception of a close similarity is a forced perception. It's not an easy or elegant comparison.

[@streetguru6240]

May 21, 2011 was Judgment Day. This explains all the chaos. eBiblefellowship discusses this and other Bible topics in great detail

[@naromekram]

She's wrong about Trump not being an outsider/politician. He's not. She comes closer to reality when she speaks about Trump respecting all the deplorables, but she is too condescending in how she views this relationship viewing Trump as not being sincere.

[@samw4758]

Great show

[@erickborling1302]

Wow Ezra Klein is deep in George Will territory. A has-been.

[@nicholassmith3719]

This is a good show!

[@FranciscoCruz-fd3pw]

"Meatloaf".........? Gee lady, you are not a very deep thinker are you.

[@markcollins2704]

Ivy League analysis

[@terrychockley7382]

Go back to the drawing board.

[@bordedup546]

Great guest and nice and direct question 👍

[@njswampfox474]

Great guest. Interviewer is a partisan shill.

[@lomotil3370]

🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation: 00:52 🗳️ *Despite the uncertainty around the Iowa caucus, it's anticipated that Donald Trump has likely won, maintaining a strong position in various primaries.* 02:15 🤔 *Republicans appear divided on whether the party should be centered around Donald Trump or broader ideological principles.* 03:27 🌐 *The identity shift from a "Trump party" after the 2020 election to a more diverse orientation has seen a rebound, with Trump's opposition not significantly impacting him.* 06:53 ⚖️ *Ron DeSantis faced challenges as he positioned himself as a Trump alternative, struggling to define a clear base and losing ground due to perceived lack of charisma and a weak electability argument.* 11:32 🤨 *Nikki Haley's likelihood of winning the nomination is deemed very unlikely, facing challenges in various states, especially given the current pro-Trump sentiment within the Republican Party.* 23:31 🌐 *Voters' emotional connection to leaders matters, impacting job approval.* 24:37 🌊 *Trump positioned as a stability candidate, shifting from disruptor image.* 26:15 🤔 *Perception of two Trumps: old, stable vs. new, disruptive.* 29:07 📉 *Despite positive metrics, voters sense disorder and chaos under Biden.* 36:39 🏛️ *Republicans seek a sense of winning, a return to perceived success.* Made with HARPA AI

[@AroundTheWorldWithEase]

So nothing we didn't already know?

[@janea4777]

2000 votes, Ezra. lol

[@TheHybrid350]

great

[@jamiepaulzine6725]

Chaoes on the world stage

[@jamiepaulzine6725]

Yeah because it was 1 in 100 yr pandemic etc

[@hamburgerjoe4401]

I think it's a little bit patronizing at the end to summarize Trump's appeal as "Here's someone who's telling you you're not a bad person, even though you were called a deplorable". That reminds me of the "what's a weakness of yours?" in an interview but in reverse. If you actually talk to Trump voters, yes there is huge misinformation, but we need to come to terms with the decline of the American middle class and many, many problems caused by the financialization of the modern economy, etc...

[@paulawinstead5660]

just say it: biden and his policies are the root cause of what's gone bad in the last 3 yrs.

[@tb8865]

None of those issues will be addressed, its sad but financialization and liquidation of the middle class is a feature, not a bug.

[@peggyc8473]

P

[@caseymckenzie4760]

What is the difference between Nicky Haley and Biden?

[@bordedup546]

Conservative vs Democratic so obviously fiscal policy would be a big one

[@TTFMjock]

@@bordedup546. 1996 called, they want their low information shibboleths back

[@caseymckenzie4760]

​@@bordedup546when low information voters think they are informed by parroting the two party myth. News flash, Both parties work for the same corporate ruling class.

[@bordedup546]

@@TTFMjock i have no idea what that means but thank you

[@bordedup546]

@@caseymckenzie4760 fiscal policy is the most important thing that any government does. having a fundamental disagreement there is easily enough to seperate two parties

[@jamiepaulzine6725]

Trump is gaining voters btw Anderson

[@stephenboyington630]

The meatloaf analogy is terrible. Eating meatloaf at a diner does not stridently troll half the country. The more fit analogy would be deciding to eat at a vegan restaurant and carrying in a roasted chicken dinner then refusing to leave when asked.

[@paulheydarian1281]

What if was a grass fed chicken? 😮

[@bordedup546]

No, maybe a restaurant that is popular among vegans after new ownership but the menu is still the same. We can't pretend like America is a country of only democrats and "libs"

[@daveking3494]

What Good do Republicans get out of Trump. Tax cuts for the billionaires?

[@nuqwestr]

I'm an average retiree and my IRA went up 100% under Trump, down 50% under Biden and the dollar lost 10% of its buying power under FJB.

[@richarddietzen3137]

Down 50% in spring of 2020 and never bounced back only for exceptionally poor investments.

[@nuqwestr]

@@richarddietzen3137 Fed not raising rates this quarter seeing better return, I'm in dividend stocks so ROI fine as long as I don't sell. Truth is neither Biden nor Trump could have staved off market corrections after Covid.

[@MichaelJohnson-vi6eh]

@@nuqwestr I trust that you are a knowledgeable investor. Trump as most Republicans are very good at goosing certain sectors of the economy to get a great Temporary return for the investor class. Democrats tend to make changes to the economy that affect many sectors across the academy and creates more sustained but slow growth. They want to make more permanent changes to reduce the number and of strength of the boom and bust cycles.

[@TTFMjock]

The richest 20 counties in the U.S. voted overwhelmingly for Biden. Have you been under a rock since 1996?

[@jamiepaulzine6725]

Trump is relatable

[@naromekram]

5 minutes here and already I realize this woman is, as usual, out of touch w/Trump supporters with her meatloaf comparison. (I'm a Trump supporter). Amazing that people like this whose work is to understand Trump, just can't see things in plain sight.

[@lembergnative7731]

her work is not to "understand" Trump - she's a pollster.

[@mats66]

Why do you support Trump?

[@naromekram]

@@mats66 b/c I despise the Democratic Party so much

[@mats66]

​​@@naromekramEnough to sacrifice democracy?

[@naromekram]

@@mats66 “democracy” please. Sanctuary cities/no wall is subverting democracy destroying democracy w/demographic displacement.

[@FranciscoCruz-fd3pw]

God bless President Trump.

[@AzEagletarian]

Trump is NOT the president.

[@stephenboyington630]

I am sure there were many, many Tutsis that also thought that it would not really affect them if Hutu Power took control.

[@moxinghbian]

At least in US, people won't be dying from Manchettes, so uncivilized. I know what you are imagining, but interestingly, 90% of guns are owned by only 10% of gun owners.

[@keep-ukraine-free528]

@stephenboyington630 Your comment is opaque. It's a reference to @22:37 - but this may go over peoples' heads. The issue -- younger voters think (actually, assume) their lives won't change very much if either Biden or trump takes control (wins) for the next 4 yrs. This shows ignorance in many younger voters, who don't understand dangerous dictatorships. *For those not informed of the world/history, say things more clearly -- trump will brutalize people. Biden won't.*

[@TTFMjock]

That’s a lot of Maddow

[@markcollins2704]

Ill save you this entire conversation we just hate you. You hate Trump, so obviously hes the guy.

[@FranciscoCruz-fd3pw]

What shallow commentary. You pseudo "intellectuals" actually UNDERSTAND nothing.

[@fmyou62]

"So Donald Trump would have won in this hypothetical world where the playing field was fair." Why did Ezra let this answer pass and move on?

[@jamiepaulzine6725]

He didn't incite anyone to storm our capital that we as taxpayers fund. He said peacefully and patrioticlly and thats it. Plus likely feds in crowd inciting bad stuff etc

[@MayorMcC666]

i love the random jungian archetypal shoutout. very petersonian 🤓

[@richardkut3976]

Ballets do not have a "Chain of Integrity", as defined by President Carter and James Baker. No matter who wins I'll not be certain. Excellent program, thanks.

[@nicolaebulgaru]

So my concern is that is nothing wrong with Trump but is something wrong with America.

[@michaellabbe2873]

Trump is a malignant narcissist only interested in himself, who has ALREADY fought the peaceful transfer of power. Be realistic. We live in the world’s superpower, managed adequately, if not perfectly, by a democratic republic. Any student of history can tell you how FU things become under an autocracy. In case you think there will be adults in the room to control his base instincts, forget it. There will be no adults in the room next time. I suggest that the constitution matters. And, if you doubt what you’d be getting with Trump, read the Atlantic’s recent issue “If Trump Wins”.

[@dospal]

The left criticizes Trump for his flaws and imperfections while ignoring the same on people they approve of. The fact is, Trump’s voters and supporters like him in spite of his flaws because they understand that no candidate will ever be perfect. The left’s outrage and exaggeration of his intentions and flaws resonates to his supporters that he is one of them because the left looks down on them and have written them off. The left needs to talk to his supporters, not at them. They feel left behind and he seems to seem like he’s listening to.

[@Booker830]

Of his flaws ? Mile high pile of criminality. But it's like talking to an Emu sometimes

[@dospal]

@@Booker830 they are all criminals, the media just chooses to highlight Trump’s.

[@dospal]

@@Booker830 Biden is the worst of them all, followed by McConnell and Pelosi

[@mats66]

🤡

[@jamiepaulzine6725]

There were different levels of shenanigans in 20 btw i could give u lots of examples

[@jamiepaulzine6725]

Hes not fighting for only himself and only him alone etc she is totally wrong on that

[@danielcryderman7400]

How dare you compare such a noble, delicious dish to Donald frump!

[@jamiepaulzine6725]

U aren't honest guy but are fake news

[@themeangene]

Also it's insane that you think the economy is doing okay. You sound insane 😂 How about you talk to real people not worth millions?

[@bordedup546]

You're also free to check statistics that show healthy numbers but the host never claimed that was the be all and end all of economic performance. Only that historically those stats used to mean a lot more than they do now, which is a perfectly valid question

[@elzoog]

Back in 1860, the Democrat party didn't include Abraham Lincoln on the ballet on a few states. Glad to see the Democrats havent' changed.

[@kicsms_science3729]

Did Lincoln ever contact a state to ask them to change election results so he would win? I don’t remember that, but I went to school in Alabama, so you can’t trust what I was taught about American history.

[@NegativeLite1492]

Ballots didn't exist back in 1860. Back then, you either wrote a name on a paper or, more commonly, you went to your preferred party and they would give you a preprinted ballot with all that party's candidates listed on it. Modern-style ballots listing all major party candidates didn't come into practice until 1888.

[@TTFMjock]

@@NegativeLite1492the point?

[@NegativeLite1492]

@@TTFMjock There were no official ballots back then, nor any process for including or excluding candidates. Therefore, the claim that Lincoln was excluded from ballots in 1860 is obviously false on its face. What may have happened is that Lincoln did not actively campaign in Southern states because the Republican Party platform was anti-slavery, and perhaps that might be the source for this urban legend. Nevertheless, Lincoln's failure to campaign in certain states doesn't mean he was ever legally barred from the electoral process in those states.

[@kendrahughes8622]

Trump 2024🇺🇸

[@chasdawes7541]

Insightful look into the infantile nature of tRump's GQP. Thanks, Ezra.

[@callumbush1]

Propaganda channel

[@nonearlylove]

The Republican Party is Doomed..! "And we will deserve it" Lindsey Graham