A Response to Alisa Childers and Christopher Yuan

Alisa Childers recently had Dr. Christopher Yuan on her KZbin channel to discuss various problems they see in what they call "Side B Christianity," and my name often came up in their critiques. They also offered several critiques of the Exiles in Babylon 2024 conference, which I hosted last month.
In this episode, I work through their conversation and respond to several things where I believe they have misrepresented what I actually believe. My goal in this episode is not to attack Alisa or Christopher, nor is it to stir up disunity; rather, I simply want to clarify what I believe about important matters related to sexuality and gender, especially in places where others are claiming I believe things that I actually don't.
Here's the original KZbin conversation between Alisa and Christopher: • Is Same-Sex Attraction...
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[@RuslanKD]

Glad you responded to this. There’s a lot misrepresentation in many of these discussions.

[@ethanmaners6083]

@RuslanKD might be helpful to do a brief video about this to help keep the record straight. You do great work, brother!

[@PrestonSprinkleRaw]

@@ethanmaners6083 Ruslan just did. Check out his YT channel. He gave a very thorough and thoughtful response to my video.

[@BillyMogensen]

I am too! Thank you both for addressing this. I work with Cru and have been navigating many similar misunderstandings and misrepresentations.

[@minor00]

Unfortunately I feel like this is often characteristic of many online evangelical "leaders/influencers". It's sad to see this kind of isolationism, protectionism, and misrepresentation coming from the Christian community. To be honest, it upsets me greatly. Especially when I see it reoccur from the same people.

[@danyiadawson6724]

I can’t find Ruslan response video??

[@user-mm8ur9el9n]

As a Bible professor who is uber-conservative by every available THEOLOGICAL (i.e., not culture-war) metric, and as someone who uses both Sprinkle and Yuan to help students see the historic Christian sexual ethic -- I think there are two issues that might not be resolvable here without Yuan, Childers, or Butterfield being willing to have an actual dialogue (Yuan would be the best option, as Sprinkle seems to know): 1. Preston has a PhD in biblical studies, so he values primary sources. Yuan has a DMin--a professional doctorate, not a research doctorate--and Butterfield has a PhD in a discipline related to her former days as an English and feminist studies professor. I do not know, or assume, that Childers is formally theologically trained. Butterfield and Yuan look at peripheral sources (e.g., conference marketing materials), sometimes out of context (see Preston's previous responses to Butterfield), and run with them to make their stand. Preston demonstrates his academic honesty in this podcast by charitably looking at their entire episode IN CONTEXT, rather than making blanket statements about Yuan and Childer's arguments. He could do this, but he does not, because his academic training allows him to not be intellectually insecure and to make sure he gives his interlocutor the best possible reading/hearing. Yuan, Childers, and Butterfield simply have not underwent the kind of training that would have demanded those intellctual virtues in theological discourse. Sprinkle's training did not allow him to potshot like his opponents do. 2. "Heresy" needs to be more clearly and historically defined. Heresy has historically been understood as a brand of biblical misinterpretation that subverts a core Christian doctrine (i.e., issues related to the nature of God and the nature of salvation). To jettison an historic sexual ethic would be heresy because of its denial of repentance as an ingredient of faith in Christ unto salvation (cf. 2 Pet 2:1-3, 14).[1] To delineate inner temptation and inner desire as sin is a worthwhile exegetical-theological debate, but because both sides maintain the need to repent of what the Bible calls sin, this does not fit the definition of heresy. You would be hard pressed to find a professional theologian who would call Preston's positions heresy, because they realize the term's freight. SOMEONE OUT THERE needs to write a book in the spirit of Gavin Ortlund's work on theological triage and specifically apply the categories to elements of the current evangelical debate on sexuality. One final thought that might make this debate unresolvable. I hope anyone reading this reads it charitably. What do Yuan and Butterfield have in common? They once lived gay lifestyles. Could this be why they are unflinching, sometimes at the expense of intellectual virtues, and do not want "nuance" to play into their debate with Preston? I do not mean this pejoratively. Try to debate the merits of moderate alcohol consumption with former alcoholics, or those hurt by former alcoholics, and you will find a similarly unflinching stance. So much current intraevangelical culture-warring comes down to contextualization. Who is more willing to reckon with systemic racism? Christians whose life or ministry has more proximity to those affected by racism. Who does not want to grant that systemic racism exists? Christians whose life and ministry are further removed from those affected by racism. I think something similar is going on here. Who is more willing to reckon with nuance regarding the particulars within an historic Christian sexual ethic? Christians whose life and ministry have more proximity to people in or wrestling with those lifestyles (i.e., Preston). Who is not willing? Christians whose life and ministry is mainly to resource culture warriors or pastors engaging the issue with distance from people affected by it (i.e., Butterfield and Yuan). History will judge our moment, and I think it would be wise especially for Yuan to be a bridge-builder here. [1] This was articulated well by J.I. Packer in "Why I Walked: Sometimes Loving a Denomination Requires You to Fight" (see www.gafcon.org/resources/why-i-walked-sometimes-loving-a-denomination-requires-you-to-fight).

[@wnorwood1]

Yes!!! Best comment ever! Excellent points!

[@hello855]

Excellent comment. This should be pinned.

[@koalalou68]

Great insight very aptly-expressed! Was feeling likewise regarding your final thought but you said it so much better:)

[@jessicamiller1548]

Best analysis of this situation!!!! Thank you!! I have been so frustrated by this misunderstanding/growing division, but you helped to articulate what seems to be going on here.

[@gtf5392]

Is moderate alcohol consumption a sin in the Bible?

[@jazzimilz]

I think it is very telling that they continue to talk about you publicly, but will not engage privately. Makes me question their motives & doesn't seem very befitting of a fellow brother or sister in Christ either.

[@shannalee80]

Exactly. There’s a reason why my mother always said, “Never talk about someone what you wouldn’t say to their face.” 😉

[@machellovelivelife658]

I've long side eyed Alisa. I'm not sure what it is, she just rubs me the wrong way. This is just another thing about her I dislike.

[@PrestonSprinkleRaw]

@@shannalee80 Your mother is a very, very wise woman :)

[@RoyceVanBlaricome]

@@shannalee80 //Exactly. There’s a reason why my mother always said, “Never talk about someone what you wouldn’t say to their face.” // I have NO doubt in my mind that BOTH of them would say what they did here to Preston's face.

[@westleybenson1188]

​@@RoyceVanBlaricomeThen why won't they?

[@katiemwheat]

Hey I have to admit, I was someone who heard what they were saying about you and just believed it, so for that I apologize. I still love Alisa and Chris and appreciate them very much, and I really appreciate you being willing to set the record straight. I pray they will reach out to you and apologize for the mischaracterizations. It seems as if you both agree on the matter but have different ideas on how you go about your ministry. It is sad to see Christians tearing each other down especially when what they are saying is false. I pray for all of your ministries to be used greatly by God. And as for my part I have learned to look into what people actually say about themselves before I make a judgement on what they believe. Thank you.

[@PrestonSprinkleRaw]

Thanks Katie, that really means a lot. I'm super glad you're thinking through these issues with thoughtfulness and integrity.

[@Courage10.18]

Katie♥️ You said this so beautifully and I too got caught up in these interviews. I began to question Preston’s position because I wasn’t sure. Then came the CRU situation where Preston was named. I was caught up in their thoughts about Preston *even though* I have a mutual friend with him who was telling me “I’m not so sure about all that. Those descriptions are not the Preston I know”. @PrestonSprinkleRaw l am sorry for doubting you. Especially since YOU are the one who saved me with Jackie Hill Perry in 2021. I was just beginning my journey with an adult child who is caught up in transgenderism. I am grateful for you and I ask for your forgiveness. I pray this podcast opens (private) conversations with Alisa, Christopher, and Rosaria. All of you have very important ministries and we all need to pray against Satan’s division attempts.

[@RaptureReadyPam]

@@Courage10.18 I listened to about 6 interviews with Preston. I’ve seen his Babylon conference. He does exactly what Rosaria and Christopher are saying. He starts with Biblical truth about marriage. However, he slowly walks away from the Bible and relies on philosophy, ambiguity, duplicity, and ultimately walks away from scripture.

[@bwhitleyjr]

@@RaptureReadyPam. I would like some specific references and links or videos of what you are talking about.

[@RandyNathanYan]

​​@@RaptureReadyPamif you cannot prove it just ,shut up do not make matters worse and mind your own business.

[@amychristmas7745]

Preston: I don't always agree with you, but I always appreciate your willingness to dialog and your graciousness with others, no matter what they think. I also have tremendous respect for the clear integrity with which you approach your work. Thank you for demonstrating healthy disagreement and what "iron sharpening iron" can mean. Peace and grace to you brother.

[@aleahpursley]

I was at exiles. It was an incredible and respectful display of how to hold up the beauty of orthodoxy without fear of platforming perspectives that differ from that. It was a space that highlighted these Holy Spirit empowered Biblical truths: - How the Holy Spirit preserves the Church - How God is not afraid or angered by our questions - Unity in essentials of the faith doesn’t mean we look homogenous on non-essentials - Inviting those we disagree with to our table will help us understand those who are “leaving the building”. Thankful that a deep confidence in the Gospel was present, so that we could wrestle with live issues in our time for a few days.

[@wnorwood1]

"a deep confidence in the gospel" I love that!

[@shannalee80]

My jaw dropped to the floor when Yuan used the “wheelchair” or “getting older” as reasons for no longer being attracted to your spouse. Good grief.

[@inchristalone25]

The main cause of lack of attraction is resentment.

[@to_the_nature]

Oof! Yeah, so disrespectful to our disabled sisters and brothers 😣

[@Rosa-kd2cl]

It really does not reflect well on his other positions...

[@sarahshepard5698]

For the record, I did not feel misled at all by the online descriptions for Exiles in Babylon and am very grateful to have been able to attend. Keep doing the good work, Preston!

[@Photogirl318]

I was honestly really frustrated when I heard Alisa and Christopher's original interview as I am someone who listens to your podcast, reads your books, and I was in the middle of reading Nate Collins book when that episode aired. I felt they were badly mis-representing you (and Nate) in that original podcast. Thank you for your maturity is reaching out to both Christopher and Alisa trying to have a conversation, and for being so kind and respectful in your response to them when I didn't feel they treated you with the same dignity or respect. I appreciate you upholding a Biblical worldview while treating human beings with dignity, love and respect. If others would show up to the table to actually have a conversation with you, I think a lot could be learned.

[@clarkemorledge2398]

Thank you for clearing up a lot of the confusion that has recently shown up on Alisa Childers channel. She is rightly concerned about "progressive Christianity" creeping into the church, but lumping you into that mix is very, very misleading. I can say that even when I disagree you on certain particulars. I am still not sure about your view of annihilation yet, but for Chris Yuan and Alisa to include that in their video critique is a bit of a red herring. It is good to "take it on the chin" a bit for some things about the Exile in Babylon conference, which you did in this video. I really hope Alisa watches this. But even more, I hope she takes you up on your invitation to have a conversation with you.

[@hello855]

I've always found it interesting that Alisa almost never invites anyone that disagrees with her on her podcast. She only wants to build up her own echo chamber.

[@daveflanagan4213]

When you get locked into an echo chamber……….

[@RCGWho]

If he's not progressive I don't know who is.

[@kraimergamer2050]

I’m seeing more of this attitude from Alisa and Chris in other churches throughout America, some local to where I live. I used to believe in hard lines for all theology, where there is truth and no room for any other considerations. Recently I’ve gone through a reforming process, and realized that many of the people and churches who have these stances do so out of their own tradition or experience. Which is valid, but not always authoritative. The “heretic witch hunt” movement as I like to refer to it is dangerous, because it often targets people for having different traditions or interpretations of lower level doctrine. If someone warps the Gospel, they should absolutely be called out, or over any other primary doctrine (like The Trinity for example). But in my opinion, anything beneath this should be approached with grace along with truth. And of course, everything we believe should be drawn from scripture, not from our traditions or favorite KZbin speaker

[@bryanmckaig]

One of the mistakes Alissa and Christopher are making is to conflate attraction and temptation. A temptation is an inclination to do a specific sinful thing. Attraction to either the opposite sex or the same sex isn’t an inclination to sin. As a heterosexual man, I don’t desire or feel drawn to every woman, even though every woman is in the category that I am attracted to. Attraction is more like: IF I’m tempted by lust, it will be toward a woman and not a man. For a same sex attracted person, IF they are tempted by lust, it will be toward someone of their own sex. The mere fact of attraction is not sin, nor is it even a desire: it’s a preset that shapes desires. To restate: attraction and desire are two different things.

[@paulabbott4474]

With no interest in debate, Bryan, I don't understand your position. If I were to replace "same sex" with other objects just as clearly defined by Scripture as sinful if pursued (incest, bestiality, etc.), would you consider THAT "attraction" at least a desire if not a sinful desire (i.e., biblical temptation)? Just trying to grasp your point. Thanks in advance.

[@FireflowerDancer]

I agree. It seems very odd that they would make such a large mistake to conflate the two.

[@FireflowerDancer]

​@@paulabbott4474An analogy may help: You are attracted to bacon, but on a no-bacon diet. Situation 1: You see bacon and have a fleeting thought to compromise. Your attraction is neutral and not a threat to your no-bacon commitment. Situation 2: you spend the whole day fantasizing about images, sounds, smells and tastes of this bacon. And then go buy some bacon bits. Situation 1 is 'normal temptation.' Situation 2 is 'lust and sin.' This is not something any human can moderate or control for someone else. Only God knows if we are letting our temptation grow into lust.

[@paulabbott4474]

@@FireflowerDancer Sincere thanks for giving it a shot, but what I'm really looking for is a response to my exact juxtaposition: if same sex attraction "is not sin" or "even a desire" (to quote the original post), would one say the same about an attraction to incest or bestiality (since all three objectives are prohibited by God's Word)? That seems to be (to me, at least) a question requiring a yes-or-no answer, for which analogies are no substitute. Blessings for your effort, though.

[@FireflowerDancer]

@@paulabbott4474 Same sex attraction is sin, in the sense that it's outside God's design. But, if we confess it and submit daily, and turn to Christ to fulfill our desires, we have nothing to be ashamed of. That's the gift of salvation. We all must be very careful to tend our thought life, and our heart. We don't need to tell everyone everything, but we should have one or two close accountability partners. Everything in the heart that's not from God- hatred, covetousness, fear, dishonesty- it all must be cleansed away with confession, and renunciation.

[@WhatYourPastorDidntTellYou]

At 1:26:20 she says she is basically calling out the conference for being a terrible thing because she wants to prevent people from being deceived. I can’t help but think she has a low view of the intellectual capacity of her audience. She also acts as if being exposed to the best of an opposing view is a bad thing.It’s no wonder she can’t manage to represent Preston Sprinkle correctly. Why would she try and listen to what he says if she doesn’t think other people should?

[@marksbeats3053]

Exactly!

[@RCGWho]

Is it a Christian conference or a secular ecumenical university conference?

[@beckycriswell5561]

Theology in the Raw and Exiles in Babylon have been a tremendous blessing in my life. The misrepresentations of both Preston and the conference are heartbreaking to me. I fly across the country to attend Exiles and here's what I love about it - I know the person sitting next to me might not agree with me on everything. I know difficult and necessary conversations are happening. However, I've never felt such unity around the gospel of Jesus Christ as I do sitting there in that room. Actually, 4 years ago when I was experiencing a severe season of depression and confusion about my faith, it was Preston's podcast that led me back to Christ and showed me that it was okay to think deeply and ask questions. And I don't mean changing my mind on everything I was ever taught in the church! I actually mean that I understand those things in a deeper and more beautiful way than I ever could have imagined. Thanks Preston for your humble posture and for all that you do.

[@RoyceVanBlaricome]

Here's a final question I'd like to ask Preston. You claim that your Conference is sort of a Think Tank. An event where a wide spectrum of people with various POVs can bring their thoughts/beliefs and share the with others to consider. Earlier you mentioned Justin Lee. I'm wondering if you would call him a Brother? And do you call all those speakers at your Conference Brothers & Sisters? If not, then that begs the question as to why are they there. Would you invite Satan to show up so folks can get an understanding of his POV and why he says and does what he says and does? Do you seriously believe that Jesus would give the mic and podium to a false teacher, angel of light, wolf in sheep clothing?

[@westleybenson1188]

Those people aren't Satan, though. The comparison is grotesque. They are human beings with different point of view. It's okay if Alisa and Christopher don't care about why people are leaving the evangelical church. They should just say that. But pretending to care while not speaking directly with these people is ridiculous. If you want to know the answer, then ask the people who deconstructed. Unless you already think you know what going on in their heads for some reason... late stage fundamentalism at its finest.

[@RoyceVanBlaricome]

@@westleybenson1188 //Those people aren't Satan, though.// No, they're not. At least some of them are his children though. Sons of disobedience and children of wrath who do Satan's bidding. (Eph. 2:1-3) //The comparison is grotesque.// In your mind. To you. NOT in and of itself. For the reason I just gave. //They are human beings with different point of view.// You left out the word "satanic". It's a satanic POV. //It's okay if Alisa and Christopher don't care about why people are leaving the evangelical church.// WHERE did you see either of them say that? I didn't see it. Don't believe they did. Your SINFUL faux-omniscience exercised from your high and lofty SINFUL self-built throne crafted out of your SINFUL self-imposed god-complex has failed you miserably and if you're wrong, which I'd bet good money you are, you have just made yourself an abomination to God. (Pro. 6:16-19) //They should just say that.// Why? Because you say so? They didn't. And that's what matters. //But pretending to care while not speaking directly with these people is ridiculous. If you want to know the answer, then ask the people who deconstructed. Unless you already think you know what going on in their heads for some reason... late stage fundamentalism at its finest.// LOL Now get the GIANT Sequoia Tree outta your eye socket, get outta the Flesh, get saved, and then go practice what you preach.

[@johnschwandt550]

Way to go! I was at Exiles in Boise. You are teaching the church how to engage with difference and truly understand a brother's or sister's opinions and beliefs. Great distinction between the concepts of identifying beauty and lust (Great discussion of this at 52:30 and a nice list of necessary elements of marriage at 23:00.) I appreciate your dedication to debating concepts and doctrines rather than focusing on propping opposing banners and teams within the church. We need to intentionally develop skills for understanding each other. I love the structures (conferences and interviews) you provide to help develop this. I'm sensitive to this because of how hard we work at Redemption Seminary to uphold a structure that allows mentor-professors from a wide variety of theological traditions to serve the kingdom together without blurring or watering down their individual beliefs. Way to model long-suffering with others and pursuing unity in truth and love, Preston!

[@ParkerRRea]

I was at Exiles 2024, and I in no way felt misled about the nature of the conference. It was engaging and honest. Preston never gave me the impression before the conference that I was coming to hear exactly how one should deconstruct, for example, but rather that we would hear from several people who deconstructed in different ways to learn about why deconstruction of various types happen. Asking people to tell their story isn’t the same as presenting them as a theological teacher for the audience.

[@teresacarey9986]

I was shocked to hear Mr. Yuan's statement "men sin with their eyes, women with their eyelashes". So all men lust and all women are seductresses?! Wow. That kind of talk and thinking in the church is so harmful and especially to women who have been victimized this kind of thing is incredibly harmful. 1:24:36

[@RCGWho]

I do believe part of our design distorted by the fall was men want to lust and wonen want to be lusted. It's a generalization because some people rise above this default.

[@bluehose95]

You asked for comments, so here's mine. This is so disheartening. It's disheartening because people would call others out by name, and yet be unwilling to enter into a dialogue (at least up to this point) with the very person they are calling out. If these two are so concerned about you, Preston, why aren't they coming to you directly to speak with you on this? My opinion, and it's solely that, is that our modern-day Church reflects the culture in which it finds itself, and our culture is deeply polarized (pick any topic), loves an echo chamber, lacks depth and is in desperate need of nuance. The fact that both Chris and Alissa found it necessary to even police that word is ridiculous in my mind. I truly hope and pray they will see this and be willing to discuss with you, either privately or publicly. Regardless, you are owed an apology. I'm unsure this needs to be said, but I'll say it. I'm pretty conservative when it comes to Christianity, and I was hesitant a year or more ago to listen to what you had to say. Preston, sir, all I have seen from you is humility and care. You share the truth in love. You show us that we are able to stick to our convictions while simultaneously loving others well. You are one who imitates Paul as he imitates Christ and for that I am so, so grateful. I have learned much from you and endeavor to keep learning more. Thank you for all you do. You serve us well.

[@clarad7669]

Came here to see if you had made a response, as what I understood from Alisa's channel didn't reflect what I've heard from you in the past. Glad to see that you've not changed your stance. Thank you for making this video and clearing things up. Sorry that you were misrepresented.

[@ronryan481]

Christopher was asked in an interview if he still has temptations toward men. He replied after some thought: "I don't even think about it like that anymore, I now feel more like I once was lost, but now I'm found" Do with that what you will, it is significant and pertinent to the subject at hand, and for that matter, all besetting sin.

[@lukrisi]

I couldn’t listen to the full episode Alisa did with Christopher Yuan. They were grossly mischaracterizing your position. I can’t even watch this whole video because of how much it bothered me. You are handling the situation with such kindness and grace.

[@jfitz6517]

Thank you for saying this & doing it so graciously. Recently I’ve heard a few people reference one or both of them to discredit your work.

[@stephen6520]

Me too. Imho, Childers is overcorrecting for a legit bad thing that happened in her church (an apostate pastor leading ppl out of the faith). Yuan I'm less familiar with.

[@MrSheepishLion]

I think a big concern I would have is that there seems to be an adoption of the world's terminology and definitions. So when you give more detail on what YOU believe, it feels like, "OK, but that's not what some of the words you use communicate." If we do not share the world's views, then we need to be clearly distinguished from them and their ideas.

[@ngamendeluxe]

I really hope that Chris Yuan and Alisa (and probably Rosaria Butterfield) are willing to have a dialogue with you Preston. I’ve always been encouraged by your ministry. I had a hunch that you were misunderstood to some degree. So glad you responded to their criticisms. I love Chris and Alisa too, and I hope they’re willing to sit with you one of these days🙏🏼🙏🏼

[@machellovelivelife658]

Doubt Rosaria will; she doesn't seem like the type. My bet would be Yuan.

[@PrestonSprinkleRaw]

@@machellovelivelife658 Rosaria's husband told me he and her elders won't allow her to talk to me, but maybe Chris and Alisa will respond. It's been almost two months since I reached out to them, so we'll see.

[@machellovelivelife658]

@@PrestonSprinkleRaw Hmm, that sounds cultish. Odd, they wont engage in a civil private talk...that's what the Bible advises. Disappointing.

[@c.m.granger6870]

​@@PrestonSprinkleRaw her husband's a wise man.

[@RoseyPosey545]

@@PrestonSprinkleRawthis is shocking to me. She won’t even reach out to you herself? That’s creepy.

[@MrsRichard-sz7oc]

Same sex attraction is ALWAYS a sin. It is contrary to God’s design. In and of itself, it is the result of a fallen nature. On the contrary, opposite sex attraction is consistent with God’s design. Opposite sex attraction crosses over into sin when it becomes a desire for sinful action. When Preston say, “SSA is not a morally culpable sin that people need to repent of” he’s 100% wrong. This is the key point that separates Preston from those who hold to a truly orthodox view of Biblical sexuality.

[@wnorwood1]

He differentiates between attraction and lust, calling lust sin. In other words, the initial temptation to sin (whether in thought or action) isn't the sin but the giving in (whether in thought and/or action) is the sin. I think James describes this well in talking about temptation.

[@MrsRichard-sz7oc]

@@wnorwood1 You didn’t understand my point. Opposite sex attraction is not sin until it crosses over into lust. Lust is a desire for sinful action. Opposite sex attraction is God’s plan for 1 man and 1 woman to come together to form a family. God never sanctions SSA. SSA is an affront to God’s design. Therefore it is always a sin.

[@wnorwood1]

So you're saying opposite sex attraction doesn't become sin until it crosses over into lust but SSA even when it doesn't cross over to lust is still sin?

[@MrsRichard-sz7oc]

@@wnorwood1 Yes, that’s right. The reason is because SSA is never in God’s plan. SSA is the result of the fall. It is symptomatic of our sin nature.

[@wnorwood1]

Yeah but neither is adultery (for example) as a married woman I could be attracted to a man not my husband and have it not cross over into lust...by your definition any stray thought or feeling outside of God's moral law would automatically be sin?

[@AmandaMeadows]

Thanks so much for breaking this down, Preston! As someone who has listened to and read your work extensively, I felt so frustrated on your behalf while listening to this! It's a clear misunderstanding on their part, and I wish that they had the ears to hear.

[@NancyErickson-xw2dc]

Preston, your response was humble, gracious, and thoughtful. I for one am grateful for your ministry, and for the manner in which you engage in thoughtful conversations on your podcast and at the Exile conferences. Yuan and Childers' failure to respond to your invitation to dialogue is disheartening. I felt similarly after Rosaria Butterfield misrepresented and disparaged your theology, then declined to dialogue with those of us who entreated her to repent. Bless you, and continue the good and holy work you have been called to.

[@user-cc7jj4re4g]

I went to the Exiles in Babylon Conference virtually. The beauty of it is consistent with Preston’s ongoing platform of having curious conversations by sharing diverse thinking in order to clarify and understand issues that impact our application of faith.

[@pricelispd]

I watched the conference virtually and I believe it’s one of the best conferences we have here in the USA. You brought up such important things and I hope they respond and also apologize.

[@jmendl2407]

I went to Exiles. Loved it! I came, knowing my position on same sex marriage, but wanting to hear from people with different experiences and positions. By doing this, I can be more sure of my position, or think deeper and pray about modifying my position. This is healthy. This is sanctification. Exiles was not a “buffet” of believe what ever you want. This was fellow Christ followers sharing their experiences and learning from each other. Beautiful! At the conference I heard Christians with different perspectives talking passionately and bravely ( and respectfully) about controversial issues that other conferences shy away from. I feel more equipped to love and create relationships with LGBTQ people in my community, thank you Exiles!

[@wnorwood1]

Yes! Great comment!

[@pheid77]

For any temptation --- It's not the first intruding thought that we're accountable for; it's what we do with that first thought for our second deliberate thought.

[@kimmariebimmarie]

We are called to take every thought captive to Christ. Lusting over the opposite sex or the same sex are both wrong. Jesus said the minute you lust for someone you’ve already committed adultery with them in your heart. Lusting over anyone who isn’t your opposite sex spouse is a sin. Putting any type of identity before your identity in Christ is also a sin. Therefore you can’t be a “gay Christian” any more than you can be a “greedy Christian” or a “lying Christian” Taking on a sin as part of your identity above Christ is twisted.

[@pheid77]

@@kimmariebimmarie I would consider lusting the second deliberate ruminating thought which is not the same thing as the first intruding flicker or flash of a thought. We take the first thought (or attraction experienced) captive to Christ by refusing to lust or ruminate on the moment any further.

[@arturonealega2727]

I agree. Jesus was tempted wih no sin. James 1:14-15. On the second thought upon seeing an attraction(1st thought), i'd say confess it immediately. 1 Cor 10;5. Every thought captive.

[@RoyceVanBlaricome]

Wrt the whole "Side B" portion of the video starting at about the 10min mark. I agree with Preston that "Side B" isn't monolithic but c'mon Preston. When you start saying that you don't "identify" with the Side B or that you don't believe that the "core identity" is found in anything other than "in Christ", which is what I agree with, then what are you saying when you talk about "Gay Christians" or their having a "sexual orientation" toward SSA? THAT is what the whole "Side B" argument/debate is about!! Can one be a "Gay Christian" or not? Yes or No? Can one "identify" as a "Gay Christian" and be Biblical? Yes or No??

[@bethrutherford1698]

Yes, I’m half way in and I find many of his refutations disingenuous and “slippery.” And of course you are free to speak at whatever conference you like but then you shouldn’t take offense if you are lumped in with the other speakers.

[@jonwhispers]

I want to thank you Preston for being a voice of reason in a period in time where people are literally in “beefs” with one another. You’ve always been thoughtful even when I don’t agree with where you land at times. I’m sorry that such great ernest people could be so misguided. I’m praying for you all in this tough situation.

[@CassTeaElle]

I just want to encourage you that making this video was absolutely the right thing to do. When someone names you publicly and makes false claims about what you believe, it's not only justified, but actually very important for you to correct that publicly. And let me give you a personal example of why. I pitched an idea to my pastor about having some sort of prayer group during "pride month" to pray for the LGBT issue, and we are also going to be discussing Rebecca McLaughlin's book "Does the Bible Affirm Same-Sex Relationships." I had a conversation with my pastor, and he mentioned your name. I had never heard your name before, and this is also a church I've only beeont attending since October. So I'm not necessarily totally sure of everything my church stands for on issues like this. Well, I watched that video with Alisa and Christopher and I was a bit concerned, because Christopher seemed to think rather negatively of you, but my pastor seemed to think positively of you. Some of the concerns Chris mentioned I felt were valid and indeed concerning, but others I disagreed with him on (I do not believe that a mere attraction to the same sex is, in itself, a sin, and I don't agree with his distinction between "internal" and "external" temptation and original sin). So that left me wanting to look you up and see what exactly it is you believe. It was very, very helpful to find this video and have a very easy, straight forward way for me to learn exactly what you think about all of the claims Alisa and Christopher were making about your beliefs. This video of yours has definitely set my concerns at ease. For the most part, I agree with you on almost everything so far, and the things I disagree with are somewhat insignificant. So if my pastor endorses your book, I think it's safe to assume my church is on the right page and I don't need to be concerned that they are promoting weird marriage-like ceremonies between same-sex "friends" or anything like that. So thank you for this! If there's any part of you that wonders if making this was the right call, I hope you can rest easy knowing it was.

[@majacobs]

I would love to hear your thoughts on how you deal with such horrific slander emotionally/spiritually. Although not everyone with a platform experiences this level of critique, it's something many people deal with on a regular basis with the way our culture is going.

[@margaretgrosskreuz8687]

Preston. Thank you so much for this. I so much appreciste both you and Greg Coles. You are the real deal. You never compromise the Biblical view on marriage. I never hear that. This was so Grace-filled and so fair which seems to be lacking in many KZbinrs today. Also i am reading the book STILL TIME TO CARE. It is eye-opening. I am so sad for people who have been treated with such disrespect. The best to you and your family and everyone at the Center. 🙂

[@solideogloria1231]

I attended the conference with my mom (who was told some of these misrepresentations beforehand) and we both had a great time that opened up a lot of deeper discussion. She also commented many times that she felt the conference was being misrepresented by others and that if they just came and heard it they would enjoy most if not all of it. I think you put a lot of thought into how to have people on the stage that can give insight into what they actually believe while not "platforming heresy". My mom did feel that there should be a little stronger push back on some views (pretty much from Tim), but like I said loved the conference over all!

[@ortizlydia22]

I wonder if they both speak this "boldly" about the pastors/Christian leaders who get caught in sexual sin & worse sexual abuse! Because more often than not, folks like them do NOT!

[@RoyceVanBlaricome]

Maybe you'll clarify this later but I'm pausing at the 35min mark because I could've sworn I've heard you say in the past that you come down on the "Side B" side and now you seem to be tap-dancing around the issue. So, to be CRYSTAL CLEAR, where do you stand on two men or two women who both claim to be "Gay Christians" that live together, show affection (kiss, cuddle, hug) but don't actually engage in sexual intercourse? That is EXACTLY what some "Side B" adherents advocate for.

[@RCGWho]

No heterol Christian couple would be encouraged to live together allegedly celibate.

[@gingy23ben5]

Alisa Childers just posted on her page not but an hour ago links to back up many of her statements concerning Preston. It’s a little concerning to me how little context she truly has of everything. I have read a few of Alisa’s books and they are well written and have a lot of good information for lay people, yet it feels as though she lacks in truly scholarly work. Judging by how she has posted links and articles to discredit Preston’s work, it feels as though she is legitimately calling him out as a false teacher. I have no words and this just downright upsets me. I think it’s safe to say a conversation probably will never happen

[@Charles.Wright]

It seems like these two are already having a conversation. Let's hope for a real-time discussion, maybe even in person!

[@hello855]

@@Charles.Wright I'm uncertain if Alisa has ever invited someone who disagrees with her on a podcast/video. We hope that they can resolve their conflicts, but she hasn't been particularly reasonable or fair-minded.

[@philwelch3106]

Thanks so much for responding to their video and for doing so in such a peaceable way. I find it interesting that they (so negatively) brought up the Conditional Immortality (annihilation) view, as the Lord opened my eyes to that view through a single sentence you mentioned in a Q&A podcast back in November 2022. I was originally appalled and thought "I thought I could trust that guy!", but then immediately dove into the scriptures (that I had previously only gone surface deep on) and quickly came to the realization that Conditional Immortality is so much more supported scripturally than the traditional (since 350 AD) view of eternal conscious torment. THANK YOU! I was so compelled by it that I made a 40 page summary of my findings (30+ reasons scripture points to Conditional Immortality) and shared it with as many people as would listen.

[@hannahmcneilly349]

Hi! I’d be very interested in reading that paper of yours! :)

[@philwelch3106]

@@hannahmcneilly349 I haven't had much success of ever pasting a link into a KZbin comment, but I'll try a different way. There is a site called tinyurl and if you add a slash and then add "ectvsci" without quotes (stands for Eternal Conscious Torment vs Conditional Immortality) it will take you to the paper.

[@philwelch3106]

@@hannahmcneilly349 I tried a couple of hours ago to post a link to it (in a very indirect way), but it appears it didn't show up. I'll try again in an even more round-about way

[@philwelch3106]

@@hannahmcneilly349 Remove all underscores: There is a si_te called ti_nyu_rl and if you add a s_la_sh and then add ectvsci (stands for Eternal Conscious Torment vs Conditional Immortality) you will see the paper.

[@philwelch3106]

@@hannahmcneilly349 Look up the reverse of lruynit

[@lydiaw4362]

My heart hurt with how they described deconstructing Christians. It did not reflect what I have experienced with them at all. It was a very uncharitable take, in my opinion.

[@janethorsman194]

Preston fails to acknowledge that most lay people don’t have the intellectual sophistication that he does with his many years of study. So he can go to a conference with many viewpoints and discern the truth. We live in very confusing times. Peoples ears are wanting to be tickled to validate how they want to live. Platforming many views gives a all-truths-truths-are-equal vibe. I don’t appreciate his glib attitude about this at all.

[@edensmith7757]

What a humble and charitable response

[@koalalou68]

Are recordings of this past Exiles conference still accessible?

[@wjw1000]

Yes; easily found.

[@jesusislord75767]

Here are direct quotes from Preston for people whining about Christopher not sourcing all his statements: “I’m actually pro-gay. I’m pro-gay in the sense that I am for gay people and I want God’s best for them and believe they can fully follow and honor God while being gay.” “Given their destructive potential, mixed-orientation marriages are rarely viewed as an option for people who are same-sex attracted (or gay).” “We can acknowledge that many of the elements that draw people to polyamory-deep relationships, care for others, hospitality, and community-are good things.” “Specifically, there are four major things I’ve learned about Jesus and the Christian way of life from my LGBTQ friends: friendship, marriage, faithfulness, and masculinity.” Preston refers to the person he dedicated his book *Embodied* to with “they” pronouns. Preston has sought to make clear Eternal Biblical truths gray. Rosaria Butterfield has said many times that if she came to know of Christianity through Preston she would never have left her Lesbianism behind and found freedom. Preston’s teaching is a cancer within Evangelicalism and it needs to be cut out ASAP along with all other Side B false teaching.

[@Charles.Wright]

That first one is a bit of a stumbling block, but after listening to a few minutes (maybe in the 64-70 minute timestamps of this video??), there is a significant > distinction; Mr. Sprinkles goes to great lengths to talk about SSA and "gay" being synonymous in his book, which is something we should be willing to grant (if only for the sake of discussion/argument). So then the question is, what does "being gay" mean in that first sentence? Again, he emphasizes that it's not an ontological identifier. It's not WHO YOU ARE, it's just something that you have experienced or are going through right now. Someone who is merely attracted to those of the same sex can still fully honor and follow God, right?

[@margaretgrosskreuz8687]

I don't believe this to be an accurate comment. Preston never ever compromises his view of Biblical Marriage being between two people of biologically different sexes in a covenant union. I have listened to many of his (and Greg Coles') podcasts and communicate with Greg by email. They are strong believers in Jesus Christ. I have learned over these months how biased I had become and how judgemental I could be.

[@HiHoSilvey]

@@margaretgrosskreuz8687 I am not familiar with Preston and have never heard him speak before this. I must say, these are very troubling quotes. Why do you say they are not accurate? You might say they are taking out of context but I cannot imagine what context would justify the statements.

[@HiHoSilvey]

@@Charles.Wright since I am not familiar with Preston sprinkle, would he say that SSA diminishes with time as the process of sanctification (growth in holiness) continues? Scripture makes clear that disordered thinking is sin. BTW, all these quotes are stumbling blocks to any interest I might have to follow Preston sprinkle.

[@revkevdglenn]

Having heard or read each of these statements in their context, I can say that the commenter is cherry-picking and misrepresenting Preston's views. No, I will not provide the context. It's there to be read and heard by anyone willing to make the effort. One should do their own homework and be informed prior to posting content, otherwise the content is misleading - as the commenter has demonstrated.

[@jacobbeckmarketing]

So glad you made this video.

[@KINGDOM-Empowered]

Thank you, Jesus! Thank you, Preston! More Grace for all! Peace has come, so keep shining! Love our enemies is an honor.

[@chriscaliff8752]

I have been to the Exile's conference three times now. Every time it is an incredible blessing. It has strengthened my faith and encouraged me to dig deeper into the Bible. Thank you Preston for being so gracious with those who are misrepresenting you. Keep up the good work.

[@augustusward2301]

Hi there Mr. Sprinkle. I’ve been working through both sides of the conversation so that I can discern rightly. Proverbs 18 commands us to have both sides and not to rely on the side of the one, so I’m making the effort. I’m also part of the mission’s committee with my church and so this topic, yourself, and Cru are a recurring topic of concern and research. Here’s at least some of my confusion comes: 1. I’m working through your book “Embodied”, and I’ve read my stories (especially in the beginning), about the hypocrisy of the church and ill treatment of professing believers, which correlates with Yuan’s critique about the use of many “victimhood” stories in the church and “Side B” using these stories and emotions. It sounds like Yuan followed up with some churches charged with being abusive (probably not related to any in your book, just clarifying) and found that it was actual biblical church discipline. Your book does not involve the other side of the stories that you provide which leads to confusion and I think gives more credibility to Yuan’s critique. I rejoice that you believe in church discipline. It is an act of love aimed at restoration when done properly. 2. As related to your comment on not being for any covenantal relationship that in any way mimics marriage: one of your speakers at the 2024 Exiles in Babylon Conference has a video of making such a covenant relationship with another man. This speaker’s name is Art Pereira. The videos can be watched here: ewtc.wpenginepowered.com/2023/10/31/mini-profile-art-pereira/. They are not long videos. It would be hopeful to know how you go about selecting conference speakers. While I agree with you that speaking at certain events that in error or worse (heresy) are great opportunities to preach and teach at, who you ask to come and speak at yours can definitely reflect poorly on you and raises questions about who and what doctrines and theologies you support. Another example is Greg Boyd who on his website rethinks the atonement and does not hold to penal substitutionary atonement because he thinks God is not violent and did not need to satisfy His wrath on Christ to forgive us of our sins, which His wrath is indeed the “death-consequences of sin” (quoted from his website “ReKnew” on his about page). This is only one of the many very bad flaws in his theology, such as the Bible basically gets God wrong (especially the violent parts) because God let us write in His Word and muddy it up because he is so humble. He has written the foreword to your book on nonviolence and has spoken at the Exiles in Babylon Conference. The people you support brings confusion at least to my mind and others and so clarifying how you approach partnering with people would help bring some clarity. This post is already long, but I hope this helps in showing how (at least from my perspective) the things you say and do can be very unclear. Thank you sir.

[@clarkemorledge2398]

Hi. I noticed your long, yet thoughtful reply, so I thought it might be helpful to engage you. I do not agree with Greg Boyd's rejection of the penal substitutionary atonement, but it is probably important for folks who wrestle with this issue to at least hear Boyd's argument. That's pretty much the point of the Exiles in Babylon conference; that is, to engage ideas that you probably do not agree with. I am okay with hearing Boyd present his case, as it has helped me to better articulate my own affirmation of PSA. Regarding the Art Pereira videos, your comment originally gave me the sense Pereira might be having covenant relationship with another same-sex attracted man, which would be a real problem in my view (as well as Preston's view). However, it is clear that the other gentleman in Pereria's video is not same-sex attracted at all, and who is planning to get married to a woman, as he is other-sex attracted. Weird as this might at first look, it seems to me that this is far different from a relationship which "mimics marriage." Thoughts?

[@augustusward2301]

@@clarkemorledge2398 I appreciate your response. It’s helpful to know that the conference is presented, at the outset, as an engagement of differing views and not necessarily endorsement. I think it’s helpful to engage with other views to reinforce apologetics, and iron out questions you’ve never thought of and see what the Bible has to say on the subject. I do that very thing for the sake of both myself, and as part of our church’s mission’s team. I’ll have to watch one of the Exiles in Babylon Conferences and see how the whole thing is done since I haven’t seen it myself. And I do understand that the other gentleman in the video is planning to get married to a woman, but I do still think that the relationship does mimic a marriage. There was a lifelong commitment, a formation of a “family” where decisions on moving, jobs, etc. were made as a whole that continues even when the wife enters the picture. I think this throws a wrench into the “leave and cleave” dynamic from Genesis and Ephesians 5. Not that a husband and wife cannot take a friend into consideration when making a decision, but this covenant relationship makes it an added requirement where it should not be. I also do not think it is wise for Pereira to enter into such a relationship, partly because I do see it as a (not in full) mimification (I could not think of the right word) of marriage. He says he is same sex attracted, and he’s entered into a covenant relationship that mimics much of marriage but leaves out sex, which will become more of a frustration than a sanctifying effect on him. Thank you again for your thoughts and clarification on the conference.

[@dwb1954]

Preston is there any commonalities in assumptions or beliefs between you and other authors or academics who affirm sexual identity

[@jacquelineandrea8172]

Thanks for your response. Discussion is important. I have to say though, I listened to you speak in a conversation with Justin Lee and was really disappointed in your responses to him. It made me feel like Alisa's and Christopher's view of your stance is well, correct. There are times though, when I love being wrong.

[@berntttoast]

I attended Exiles virtually and was so encouraged by the whole thing! I watched every session twice. Nothing about it would lead people astray. Everything pointed toward Jesus, loving each other well, and holding to core Christian beliefs.

[@ngamendeluxe]

Have you ever asked to be in Allie Beth Stuckey’s podcast by the way? I think that can potentially be a good platform too, if Allie is open to having this dialogue

[@hello855]

Most of her content are political though. Is there a specific issue where they can both benefit from in a dialogue?

[@laurie1065]

@@hello855Allie actually talks a lot about LGBTQ issues in the church. Specifically, recently Andy Stanley’s unconditional conference and also speaks to the trans issue and has interviewed many detransitioners and trans issues in the church.

[@zacharystewart3216]

Preston, thank you for your clarity and ministry. I just want to encourage you. There are people like me who have been impacted in important ways by your teaching. I love your heart for people. You are a christ-like example. Childers and Yuan representation of you here is tragic. I hope they repent and talk to you. But this video is wise because it goes a long way to clear things up. Praying for you.

[@user-cc7jj4re4g]

Preston does a fantastic job clarifying his points in a humble and Christian manner

[@chadlangerud8024]

Thanks for your gracious response to this misrepresentation. I'm always impressed by your dedication to give the benefit of the doubt. As a pastor the biggest question I was hoping they would tackle is the effect that their perspective of SSA as sin, even apart from lust, has on people. ie. Perpetually sinning, perpetually needing to repent, perpetually being in a state of sin. It's as if they just wake up sinning every day because of their SSA. What do they expect people to do with that? So I was really disappointed when Yuan shut Childers down when she started to tease out the pastoral implications this perspective has, essentially dismissing her empathy for SSA folks and saying "I'm just a sinner like you, so I don't appreciate being treated differently" For me when empathy is unnecessary or viewed as a threat to a theological structure, that's a big red flag.

[@UnYokedLiving]

Full of Grace response. Thank you for taking the time! They don't get "it." They are too lost in American Christian Culture.

[@RoyceVanBlaricome]

Okie dokie. Pausing at the 53min mark to again address and important point that Preston just gets totally wrong. First, on the minor note, Preston's addressing that women are tired of being "walking temptations is not only a Strawman and VERY stinky red-herring by his own admission thankfully, but is totally irrelevant in the sense of "so what?!" So what if women are tired of being walking temptation. One could argue that God created women to be walking temptations! But to the more significant point, where Preston falls down and has before in this same area which gets him painted as "Side B" is by his claim that SSA is not in and of itself a sin. It is. Doug Wilson in his "Growing Corn On An Asteroid" article addressed quite adeptly and accurately. SSA is unnatural. It is outside of the normal design of God. Therefore it is sin in and of itself. So there is the Biblical answer to your question, Preston.

[@gingy23ben5]

I think Preston’s point of the women tired of being walking temptations is to suggest that women are tired of men blaming them for their own sin, which that is totally relevant

[@RoyceVanBlaricome]

@@gingy23ben5 - You're welcome to think that, of course, and if that were the case then it would be a valid point but that's not what he said and it definitely didn't come across that way to me. Spend a little time on "X" and you will see TONS of women whining about being "walking temptations" and how they don't understand why men are eyeballing them like they are. All while dressed up like a $20 hooker on a Saturday night outside the strip club.

[@n8straub]

@RoyceVanBlaricome From listening to Doug Wilson's debate with Jared Moore, I understand that Wilson considers SSA and other unwanted pre-voluntary desires to be *sin* or *sinful* but not *sins*. That is, they are disordered and often come from the sin nature or from demonic tempters, but they don't become actual morally culpable sins for Christians unless consented to. This may not be the way Augustine formulated it in his later years, or the way the Westminster catechists formulated it following Augustine, but it lines up with the Desert Fathers such as Evagrius Ponticus on the Eight Tempting Thoughts and Jerome's commentary on Matthew 5:27-28, so there is a venerable tradition for this reading.

[@RoyceVanBlaricome]

@@n8straub //From listening to Doug Wilson's debate with Jared Moore, I understand that Wilson considers SSA and other unwanted pre-voluntary desires to be sin or sinful but not *sins*.// That may be your understanding but I'd bet the farm that you wouldn't get Wilson to say anything can be sin or sinful but not "sins". Regardless of your "that is". Christian or otherwise. And I can't speak to those "Desert Fathers as evidently not read them. Certainly not Ponticus. Nonetheless, I agree with Wilson.

[@RCGWho]

​@@gingy23ben5Women are 1 part of a 2 part equation. Women should not be thirst traps and then feign shock when they are lusted.

[@nealdavis7276]

Have Alisa or Chris responded or reached out to you yet?

[@elifields3272]

I was at Exiles in Babylon, actually this has been my second year attending. There is such a gracious posture for offering views. I've been in the church world for over 20 years and I have never attended a gathering of Christ followers that were so intentional about having difficult and authentic conversation over issues that divide so much of the church. Also I'm disappointed in the lack of good faith effort by Childers and Yuan.

[@MalarkusD]

In-person discussion needs to happen to work out some of the "talking past one another".

[@DawnSuiter]

Do you truly expect someone who is new to Christianity to know if they have been deceived at a conference? I've listened to 3/4 of this podcast and you appear to believe that someone who primarily identifies Christian and secondarily identifies as gay or trans is righteous. Am I misunderstanding?

[@reparadigmed]

It is deeply disappointing, and perhaps disturbing that such well-known folks can speak publicly in such ignorance of the topic they are critiquing. It’s really too bad. We gotta get back to checking receipts I think.

[@Juniper333]

Thank you for speaking. Alisa Childers recently has become more and more legalistic and her theology is lacking grace. Not just in this area, I'm seeing it a lot in her videos. I'm not saying all of her videos/theology is bad, there is a lot of good, but she is absolutely on a really slippery slope and I had to step away from her teaching.

[@JosiahTheSiah]

Same here. She was doing great work pointing out the errors of progressive teaching, in a relatable way. But I think she's being influenced by a growing echo chamber in the Christian world that is far less discernment-based than it is schismatic. Telling that she is starting to see liberalism where there is none.

[@shannalee80]

I have been wondering if I was the only one who’s been noticing this about Childress and even the Center for Biblical Unity folks are going down this route.

[@thomasloucks9330]

Any specifics? This whole video is Preston trying to respond specifically which at least brings more clarity to his position.

[@JosiahTheSiah]

@@thomasloucks9330 I would have to go through the video and timestamp it for specifics. You should be able to see in Preston's replies here where both Childers and Yuan keep making leaps and blanket statements, misrepresentations, unwarranted generalizations, non sequiturs, etc.

[@FireflowerDancer]

Yes, I see in Alisa a sort of agreement to the idea of being a substitute to people's conscience and also to present a 'one truth for all, no dissent allowed ever,' ideology, ' which may be true about some things, but how can we peacefully get to the place where we agree in confidence, if we don't allow open questioning and debate? The criticism must be allowed to go both ways.

[@Mckeethstudios]

I find the use of the phrase "morally culpable sin" odd. Is there such a thing as a sin that is not morally culpable? Is Preston saying that this is a sin but morally culpable? Or does he simply mean it isn't sin? If the later why add the words morally culpable? (This is at the 1 hour mark).

[@wnorwood1]

I think he's differentiating between temptation and sin.

[@clarkemorledge2398]

To say that same-sex attraction is a product of Adam's sin is one thing. But the act of same-sex lust or same-sex sexual relations is sin. The former is not morally-culpable, while the latter is.

[@Mckeethstudios]

@@clarkemorledge2398 If I find my affections to be ordered contrary God's design what word should I use to describe it?

[@clarkemorledge2398]

​@@Mckeethstudios It is hard to find a single word, but "product of the fall" works for me

[@Mckeethstudios]

​@@clarkemorledge2398 To desire anything contrary to God's intent and design could easily be called a Sin in my opinion.

[@benjaminstewarto]

I went to Exiles and didn’t agree with everything that was said from the stage, but was super impressed by how much honor and grace each speaker was able to hold for one another throughout. I did not find it to be at all progressive or misleading. I was super impressed with the purity of Biblical commitment. It makes my heart sad to hear Christians like Christopher Yuan slandering and misrepresenting fellow believers like Preston, Greg, Kat, Wesley, etc. His words have seemed more contradictory to the gospel than anything I even heard Tim Whitaker or others say because Christopher feels to me like he’s failing to embody the character of Christ. I hope he comes to Exiles in the future, though. It was be rad to see how he’d engage with people who have been historically platformed by Exiles. I think it would be convicting for him and would off and opportunity for repentance and encourage church unity. May we remain committed to the Gosepl Truth with zeal, and in our disagreements may we forever be one as Christ and the Father are one 🙏🏼

[@noahboyd694]

Preston I have listened to you for over a year and know your heart, and my heart has changed as a result of you and your guests’ conversations. I went to school where Chris Yuan taught and learned some from him, and have respect for his story and where he came from. But honestly that is so sad to hear. What he said in the video is miles away from scholarly work so much of it is just plain wrong. I feel as christians and christian leaders that people look up to, chris should have looked much deeper into what you do and talked to you before slamming you online. He is basing his statements off of assumptions. Very sad to see. Preston I pray you are able to find encouragement through this and strengthened to do what God has put on your heart. I am encouraged and challenged very much by your work, thank you.

[@dgjesdal]

OMGoodness - Childers and Dr. Christopher Yuan’s *approach* is the very reason, as people struggle with their faith, are driven away. One point of clarity - James 1:14 the craving here was interesting. Lex - Thayer’s says “a forbidden desire”, not just a desire in general toward a natural desire to *eat* or be attracted to the opposite sex. This desire is not just a temptation, but is “our own” inner tendency or leaning toward wrong, that I do not see Jesus having. Your thoughts? Am I misunderstanding this text? Great show and a graceful response.

[@FireflowerDancer]

Without getting too indepth, just want to say I notice a lot of militant ideology and human concern or doubt for other people's salvation being used to attempt to pressure them into the 'right side of repentance.' (Coming from Childers, not Sprinkle). If we want to lead people to Christ, we must get out of his way. He can handle people's private sins just fine. Not saying we shouldn't have personal accountability, but that's different. When people talk about their 'stance' being a public witness of what side they're on, I would agree. However, I'm never with the side that takes a 'hard stance,' on heart issues that can only be solved through personal redemption, prayer and daily submission to the Lord.

[@RCGWho]

50:00 Sin starts in our own heart. Is temptation sin? Or a precursor to sin? Is there a difference between internal temptation hatched from your own desire or external temptation?

[@danielgilligan2328]

I was just telling a friend last night that “the biggest fault a person could have is think that they have no fault.” I really hope Chris and Alyssa recover and redeem/ repent from speaking about you without speaking to you. I always love your heart posture, Preston. Even giving them the benefit of the doubt for speaking about the conference before the conference happened. It’s apparent to me that you really try to follow Jesus well.

[@DanielBurnham-cd9by]

I didn't attend Exiles but have never been confused by the concept or goal. I guess that is because I listen to Theology in the Raw.

[@elizabethnorvell2185]

I really appreciate your response. You are definitely a lot more graceful that I would've been. Also I am staff with Cru and absolutely loved the talks you gave in the Compassionate and Faithful. I know that Cru has been under attack for it but I 100% line up with things you are saying and stories are so powerful! Jesus told stories so I don't understand what is unbiblical about telling stories...

[@PC-vg8vn]

I think they are the type who just want an argument, and God forbid if you disagree with them on every single point. They are picking a fight with the wrong people, in this case Preston. I am a Christian who is gay. That is simply how I describe my sexuality because it sums up that Im attracted to other men and not women. But that is not my 'identity'. It is part of my identity if sexuality is a part of anyone's identity. My main identity is as a child of God. But I doubt Im attracted to say more than 10% of men, and that's probably an over estimation. And Preston is right, there's a difference between finding someone attractive and lusting over them. Ive done both and know the difference. Perhaps those 2 dont know the difference which would imply they are constantly lusting over anyone of the opposite sex. That would be a weird way to live. BTW as someone who remembers vinyl single records, sometimes the B-side was better than the A!

[@patchlips]

Love you bro. Keep loving widely and thinking deeply.

[@Matt-Pursley]

Great response video. Evangelicalism has run its course. Michael Baurmann wrote a compelling article arguing that fundamentalism is a product of liberal modernism. It's more than ironic that fundamentalists believe they have moral theological superiority to demonize everything they disagree with as heresy. Preston nailed it when he called out how young Baptist theology is. Their view of the sacraments is liberal. If fundamentalist evangelicals were serious about conserving church teaching they would take the whole church seriously not just their variant subgroups.

[@ScifiTestament]

I love chris and alisa, and rosaria, while we're at it, so its unfortunate that they have not really engaged your content in a legitimate way on some very important aspects. nevertheless i hope this drives people towards your content and this video ! ! !

[@daveflanagan4213]

Yuan Childers and Butterfield just all seem to feed off eachother. Discussions are dull and it seems here uninformed. Alisa was great 3-4 years ago in the Progressive thing and I found her work really helpful and comforting but since then she seems to prefer rabbit holes.

[@ScifiTestament]

@@daveflanagan4213 with absolute love and respect to them, at least in regard to the them feeding off of each other thing. . This whole deal had me thinkin the same thing. And yes some of the nuances theyve been obsessing over about the language we use to talk about issues related to sexuality do seem a bit rabbit hole-ish, academic and ultimately not really practical

[@ForwardTalk]

Thank you Preston! Excellent response.

[@StevenESBussey]

Hi Preston, I really appreciate your clarifying where you stand on some of these issues. Although these types of conflicts are not easy - I hope this is like iron sharpening iron. One area in which Wesleyan theology might help on the issue of temptation - is that Wesleyans use two terms in hamartiology: Inherent Sin - the Augustinian notion of original sin which is the inherited “sin nature” and its’ consequences. When Adam and Eve sinned, the image of God was effaced and the natural image (intellect, tempers, free will) were marred; the political image (relations to God, self, others, creation) was also deeply confused; but the moral image (the core, ontological part of our being that is either disposed to God or self) was utterly effaced and in need of regeneration. The consequence of our fallenness and inherent sinful nature is that we are exposed to temptation, get sick, will die, etc. This is different from “actual” sin - both “internal” and “external” sin, which is DIFFERENT from temptation. Jesus - through the process of kenosis, embraced the consequences of INHERENT sin, but did not commit ACTUAL internal or external sin. This is key to understanding the Wesleyan view of holiness actualized today. That we do not HAVE to commit “actual” sin. This is true of our sexuality. We can be tempted without committing internal Matthew 5 sin. For Wesleyans, we define things the following way: JUSTIFYING grace - saved from PAST and PRESENT sin by grace alone by the atoning blood of Jesus Christ. This occurs by repentance (instead of disobedience) and faith in Jesus (instead of disbelief). REGENERATING GRACE deals with the rebirth of the moral image of God - and the process of the Holy Spirit abiding in the justified believer. He bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God. The Holy Spirit provides power to overcome the attraction of our sinful nature and seek holiness of heart and life. If justification saves us from past and present sin, regeneration sets us on a new future course. SANCTIFYING GRACE is the PROCESS of gaining victory over actual sin. This is where holy sexuality is reflected through continued obedient faith. The law sends us to grace and grace sends us to the law which no longer condemns, but provides the guardrails that begin the process of the image of God being restored. GLORIFYING GRACE is the final deliverance from inherent sin and where we can live in the absolutely restoration of the full moral, natural, and political image of God for eternity. This speaks to the issue of how to wrestle with Jesus’ exposure to temptation without committing internal or external sin - and how we might go and do likewise.

[@EmWarEl]

"Jesus didn't have a sin nature." - Yuan There's no such thing as a "sin nature". That's just an editorial translation of "flesh". Everyone who is born in the flesh and has a body has desires. Sinful desires are the distorted desires of a sinner. Jesus had desires. He did not have sinful desires.

[@jamestrotter3162]

Jesus didn't have a fallen nature. If He had been born like everyone else then He would have inherited by birth, the same nature that Adam had after he fell in sin. But since Jesus was born of a virgin His nature was sinless, unfallen.

[@inchristalone25]

@@jamestrotter3162 He was fully human and fully divine, so if he was fully human he would have had temptations to sin. He did NOT sin however. He was tempted in the wilderness, if what you are saying is true it wouldn't have been possible to be tempted.

[@marksbeats3053]

@@jamestrotter3162 Nowhere does the Bible say we inherit guilt.

[@kenjaeger7501]

I attended Exiles virtually and was both challenged and encouraged to hear from the wide range of speakers and the importance of the work of Jesus in their lives.

[@karinhounshell1375]

Preston, this video is the most Christlike example of meekness that I’ve ever seen. Truly, demonstrating strength under control. I hope, in my moments of righteous anger, that I’m able to respond like this. Wow. Also- you gotta listen to BEMA Discipleship. You’d love it!!

[@dianeellison3090]

So, do you attend a local Church? Are you under the umbrella of an ElderBoard? Or, do you just do you own thing like RaviZ?

[@kristenkershaw2070]

This type of exchange is unfortunate, but necessary. The truth is important. Jesus had to come to Earth in flesh to set the record straight about Himself; now we have salvation throught Him, and the responsibility of being the body of Christ. As brothers and sisters in Christ, it is good to be quick to listen, slow to respond, and utterly dedicated to truth. No one is perfect in this endeavor, but it seems to me that Preston has done his level best to fight twistings of truth (and other misrepresentations) with patience and kindness, accept constructive critique when it is offered, engage in direct, open communication to the greatest extent possible, and model unwavering fidelity to the Bible in the most original forms available. Thanks Preston, and shalom to you all.

[@1991jj]

Christians should just ignore Alisa tbh. Many scholars (like Randal Rauser) have reached out to her and Sean McDowell to debate their clumsy ideas of progressive Christianity and deconstruction but they just ignore or decline. If Alisa is gonna malign people's reputation (like she has with Brian Zahnd, Richard Rohr, Pete Enns and the late RHE) then she should stand on business and have face to face conversations with them. But she won't. And to that just says she isn't a serious christian Intellectual and has made a career out of sloppy heresy hunting and bad scholarship.

[@zackgross144]

As someone who has gone to the last three conferences and has had family and friends express concerns or choose not to go because they didn’t feel like they were in a place to critically examine things I believe the conference is in no way deceptive but very transparent and one of the greatest gifts to the church today.

[@stevenolte7392]

So my initial observation is that your issue is that you have been misquoted or wrongfully linked to side b theology. But could that be because you’re appearing to be affiliated with more of the side b crowd? And aren’t we all at the heart of Christianity called to be more and more identified by our likeness to Christ? You may be comfortable with going into environments that are espousing things you don’t agree with spiritually, but you can’t have it both ways can you? The closer you get into those environments the more optics will lean toward your identification with them.

[@BruceGower]

I have been through Cru's Faithful & Compassionate material twice as a staff person. The first time before this controversy arose. I had to stop quite a few times and process where Preston was coming from, what was he really saying, etc. The second time was after this response video. I had read more of his other material and other podcasts after the first go through. My conclusion was that if we just discussed the theology of this, we were probably in agreement so I gave him that benefit of the doubt when I looked at the material the second time. Even then I still had to question where he stood based on what he said. You are right. If he was more clear on this issue, we wouldn't be having these conversations. If he keeps getting questioned by people who are probably on the same page theologically, all said and done, then he should probably ask himself what is he saying/doing that is mudding the waters.

[@RyanTaylorMedia]

I know using Jesus as an example is slightly different because of his sinless nature. However, I just want to point out that is the same objection leveled at Jesus throughout the Gospels. The Pharisees continually thought he was a sinner because he associated with sinners and tax collectors. That should give us some hesitation about judging someone purely based on their associations. You have to do more investigation to know what they are actually teaching. Just like the Pharisees need to do more digging to see that Jesus was actually sinless and called sinners to repentance.

[@stevenolte7392]

@@BruceGower we've been longtime supporters of Cru and my kids benefited greatly from the ministry during their college years. I think it boils down to two things for me. First, does the life I'm living forsake all to serve Jesus? On that front I have plenty to focus on in my own life and too much effort on others could betray my own sin and how I'm dealing with it. Second, I am more convinced that Satan is going to attack the body of Christ from within. This whole issue of side B theology may be crystal clear to me, but there are a lot of professing Christians who think that "love" trumps all. I think truth should trump all, and I personally won't intentionally compromise what I believe, I just can't do it. I believe all Christians need to be different and set apart. Not because they are better, but because our identity is Christ. Anything I associate with, no matter how pure my intentions are, can become the crack in the armour that Satan uses to literally and figuratively separate me from the body of believers. I personally think Preston is playing with fire. Not only is the ambiguity on the social issue problematic, but his own faith is subject to the attacks of the evil one. **Footnote - I listened to the Alisa Childers podcast in question and I do think it's clear that he's been lumped into a general catagory of side B theology and those who espouse it. I've sent her a note asking if she's going to have him on her postcast (he says he's asked for a meeting but she's not responded). I hope she does.

[@stevenolte7392]

@@RyanTaylorMedia see my response to @BruceGower where I cover the point you're making. I don't disagree, and to be clear; I need to check myself first and be honest about my own relationship with Christ. Plenty of things to work on there before casting stones. Second, pray, pray, pray. In the name of Jesus, I defeat Satan, and I claim the blood of Christ in my life. And I pray for the body of Christ that we come together and not let evil separate us, or distract us from truth.

[@BruceGower]

@@stevenolte7392 As a 53-year Cru staff member, thank you for your partnership helping to take the gospel everywhere so that everyone will know someone who truly follows Christ. My wife and I greatly appreciate our ministry partner team and couldn't do what we do without them supporting us financially, in prayer, and so many other ways. And I know that Cru (and my church) isn't perfect, if for no other reason than that I am a member. I agree with you about Satan attacking from within. For the most part, the negative comments on podcasts about this topic are not coming from militant LGBT people. They are coming from fellow believers.

[@pattylebo7372]

Disappointed that neither Alisa or Christopher has reached out to Preston to talk about these things. I will say that there was one thing I agreed with that Christopher said. When I first started listening to Preston I felt like his talks with people were just "love fest". It frustrated me (and sometimes still does) when Preston doesn't clearly state what he believes or push back against the person. However, I have found that if I listen to an episode where he talks with a friend, like Ed Uszynski, you can find our fairly quickly where he stands. So I just have to listen to every episode lol

[@wjw1000]

Godspeed, brother.

[@lanceallenmcginnis1105]

Preston defending the speakers at the conference at the end of this KZbin is what I needed to hear. He is off. There is smoke. Confusion. Preston justifying the speakers because they were "Powerful" is not it.

[@JobKaper]

Thanks a ton for this video, it’s super useful. Honestly, you’re being way too nice to Alisa and Christopher. They kinda come off as malicious and not really honest. I’m seriously blown away by how many untruths that video contains.

[@andrewwebb325]

Preston is the king of gaslighting. Preston: I have never said sinful desire is ok so Chris and Alisa are slandering me. Also Preston: Being SSA is not a sin.

[@USMC_Ministries]

Yes, that’s exactly what is happening.

[@retrojazzdanceandmore]

But it honestly seems that Exiles is about hearing a smorgasbord of views from the website. I don't see an "about the conference". I worry it could lead strugglers to stray from doctrinally sound, biblically based theology. I'll reserve judgment until I talk with someone from my church who went to the conference.

[@morgspnc]

I have been very confused about all of this. I love Alisa, Chris, and Rosaria but I also love Preston and have listened to hundreds of hours of Theology in the Raw. In Rosaria’s book and many things she has said it is obvious Preston is being misrepresented and misunderstood. I thought Alisa’s podcast was a better representation but I still don’t understand this desire to throw anyone who is just slightly to the left of fundamentalism under the bus.

[@DawnSuiter]

So is desire (thought) attraction to animals or children sinful? And why?

[@SaHayes-it2uw]

Are you trolling at this point? This isn’t helpful.

[@RCGWho]

​@SaHayes-it2uw It's an absolutely legit question. Once gay marriage past, we dove off a cliff sexually in this country. We made jokes about polyamoury (sp). And here we are. The envelope is still being pushed toward ped0pheli@. The Man Boy Live Assoc was founded in 1978.

[@ticaji]

“Even Justin Lee, who is a side A affirming Christian who is gay…even he said…” Do you realize that by your words you just confirmed your acceptance of Justin Lee as a “Christian Gay”?

[@dudabradc]

I am a big fan of your work, Preston, and feel badly that you have been criticized without being given an opportunity for dialogue. As I listened, one question did come to mind that I would love clarification on. A key distinction between opposite sex and same sex attraction as a fundamental attraction seems to be that there is a pathway forward for opposite sex attraction to be fulfilled in biblically legitimate ways. There is no way forward for same sex attraction. This is often framed in the language of "natural vs unnatural", which many (I suspect Yuan and Childers) automatically label as therefore "sinful" and in need of repentance. It's not something that becomes unnatural/sinful at some point such as lust or sexual expression; it is something that is innately unnatural (against God's design) and therefore by definition sinful. Is this equating of Unnatural and Sinful the root issue here? Are there other ways of categorizing same sex attraction to make it unnatural but not sinful, e.g. disorder, illness, or dysfunction? Or is same sex attraction just a neutral and natural expression within God's greater design (which seems to be a tenuous position biblically)? DSM used to classify homosexuality as a mental illness; it no longer does. Without necessarily returning to DSM's previous stance in all its detail, is something like this perhaps the way through this debate? If same sex attraction is not a "sin", might it be a "disorder/dysfunction" of some sort (I hesitate to give it a specific label)? We recognize other dysfunctions, disabilities, illnesses, and disorders as a consequence of the fall and as expressions of human brokenness, yet we do not call them "sins" to be "repented of" (e.g. ADHD, Turrets, Autism, etc.). Some such conditions can be treated, and others not so much. Nevertheless, we try to help people live life as fully as possible despite their condition. I can't think of any direct analogue between same sex attraction and another dysfunction, so please don't get distracted by my specific examples. I'm just trying to illustrate the concept. But I hope my question is clear. If SSA is not part of God's original design, yet it is not a sin, what is it?

[@Roflmao0001]

Ive listened to you for a few years now. For them to make assumptions at your stances and even to make claims that imply you arent well researched in your views is insane, and shows that they havent bothered to do any research into what you do. And for them to make claims about a conference that hadn't even happened yet, and assume that Max Lucado would be upset about it, not knowing he's a friend of yours is very poor on their part. They're engaging in the deception they claim to be warning against