Side B Christianity and the Revoice Conference, with Christopher Yuan

[@StandUp777]

God delivered me from lesbianism and gender dysphoria over 35 years ago. His words to me back then were almost verbatim of those Christopher shared: it's about identity in Christ and choosing holiness over sin. God is in the business of setting captives free and transforming lives. Never give up hope on someone who is gay. God is much bigger and more powerful than the enemy!

[@franp5607]

Amen and Amen, Rise Up! We just need to keep praying for blinded eyes to be opened! 🙏🙏🙏God bless you and thanks for you encouraging words! ✝️❤️

[@StandUp777]

@@franp5607 Amen!

[@joeclark1621]

It's pretty narrow minded to think that being a christian is reduced to just this particular sin. There's many aspects that makes the person and to focus on one like any other is so simplistic and shallow.

[@StandUp777]

@@joeclark1621 So true! However, homosexuality is the topic of conversation in this video. But there are plenty out there on pride, greed, anger, unforgiveness, idolatry, etc. Sin is sin, in the eyes of God.

[@anarchorepublican5954]

Identity Euphoria🕊: in Christ...there is neither Jew or Gentile ...neither male or female..niether bond or free...for we are all One In Christ Jesus...

[@timyoder2541]

What an outstanding video. I lived in the gay lifestyle for 40 years. Ten years ago when I surrendered to Christ I went through all the phases discussed. But I kept seeking what God says rather than how I feel. I totally agree with Christopher, I see every aspect of my homosexuality as sin to be resisted, actions, thoughts, desires. Of course that means I see every aspect of my human sin nature as sin to be resisted, not just my same sex attractions. I remember asking the Lord how ever He expected me to change, to not be the person I had been since childhood. He answered me: II Corinthians 5:17 "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold all things have become new." I'm NEW, and being made new every day.

[@AnestesiaASMR]

I agree with you except for the last part, we are made new once (that is, we are born as children, Matthew 18:3, 1 Timothy 3:6) and then we grow up in Christ (being transformed into his image, 2 Corinthians 3:18).

[@timyoder2541]

@@AnestesiaASMR I would agree, brother but just as we grow physically and it's new, so it is spiritually, God is always doing something new, fresh, and exciting in my life.

[@tonyadieker4556]

This guy knows being LGBT is not a sin. He's lying to on purpose by choice and now it's time for his judgement. Remember, it was his choice. I am Elijah of Malachi 4:5-6.

[@teacherkate690]

@@tonyadieker4556 huh. What verses do you think make the argument for the affirmation of LGBT?

[@kenim]

@@timyoder2541 I feel blessed by reading your story. Let us all keep abiding and being renwed every day. Blessed Holy week.

[@passioknitgirl]

What impresses me the most about this conversation is that it can be applied in every person’s life, not just in regards to homosexuality. Basic truth is what we all need.

[@williamstdog9]

Welcome to everything Rosaria Butterfield has ever written & said about the subject 👌

[@donnaevans2005]

The opposite of our sins is holiness! So good and SO true with whatever we struggle with.

[@davidlafleche1142]

I've had a person ask me questions, and I advised him how to deal with it. See "Questions and Answers about Porn" (homepage).

[@Apaulshi]

This still adds resistance, hence dignifying or strengthening sin and our belief in its hold on us. Holiness has no interest in sin. Sin is performed in order to fill a hole. Holiness is closer to “wholeness” than that “with holes”. Holiness is complete without holes that need filled.

[@donnaevans2005]

@@Apaulshi Just saying opposites like Jesus used East and West for our sins removal and light with darkness, that have NO connection. Both of us are saying the same thing, with different words.

[@theeantagonist467]

As someone who comes from an lgbt lifestyle and being transgender and transitioning then came to Jesus…focus on being set apart from the world. Fast from everyone and music and tv shows for 21 days and just read ur word and watch sermons and pray for understanding and spend time on who God is and how he sees you and rip up how u see yourself. It’s not about being straight or a man or a women but letting go of ur life to gain it in Christ.

[@rvcog2952]

@Alisa - I just want to say thank you for doing a real interview - what I mean by that, is that you actually let the person speak and do not interrupt his answer and then ask well informed questions. We usually get people talking over each other. This is a refreshing interview. Great insights and keep up the good work!

[@karl323]

Chris's final reiteration of Jesus's clear instructions hit the core of the discussion: Jesus said if anyone would come after Me, let them deny themselves, take up their cross daily and follow Me.

[@chardo24]

Chris is playing with words.

[@wexwuthor1776]

My yoke is easy. My burden is light. Mat 11:30

[@jamestrotter3162]

@@chardo24 But he's quoting the words of Jesus Christ. Christ never plays with words.

[@chardo24]

@@jamestrotter3162 Actions speak louder than words.

[@jamestrotter3162]

@@chardo24 All the actions of Jesus are a result of His words, since He is the living, eternal Word of God.

[@traviscooper2205]

This guy really puts things into perspective. Sexuality, one way or the other, isn't the goal. Holiness is.

[@asinegaasinega]

It always is. Western Christianity has been hijacked but the old ways- and the Bible from Genesis to Revelations is this- Holiness and peculiar people to the Lord to do the things that He created us for. That is always the goal. We are grafted in into the kingdom for to be a holy nation.

[@watchmanbob3864]

I am thankful for Christopher's firm, uncompromising stand against every form, internal or external, of sin (1 Thessalonians 5:22)--very rare in modern "Christianity."

[@tonyadieker4556]

This guy knows being LGBT is not a sin. He's lying to on purpose by choice and now it's time for his judgement. Remember, it was his choice. I am Elijah of Malachi 4:5-6. Chris is female in gendet by the way. He also teaches the moneyary tithing lie to intentionally steal from people and sells books using the gospel even though he knows it is evil.

[@DeutscherGospel]

Sad, but true: "FALSE TEACHERS - Bryson Gray" says it all!

[@nothingbutthetruth3227]

Listen to Paul Washer. Even the strongest Christian he will make feel like the biggest sinner. Thank the Lord that He came to save wretched sinners like me and not the righteous.

[@VECTORThoma5]

This is a great video - I’m only 20 minuets in, so far I have this to say, I’m an ex homosexual, and ever since I came to Christ I have learnt allot about what makes me me and what drove me to make the choices I made, atleast personally my homosexuality was driven by a few different things - the need for a father like figure, craving male attention to make up for the lack of attention and time I had with my father when I was young. - lust, envy and jealousy, if I could ‘get with’ a guy that I found physically attracted it appeased these feelings and made me feel better about myself - a perversion of natural appreciation for gods creations, even now I appreciate greatly the physical beauty of males and females but there’s a difference between appreciation and lustful thoughts/motives - attraction to dark spirits, yes I genuinely was attracted to males that had broken dark spirits within them, that demonic look in the eyes I used to find very attractive. I think deep down I wanted to help these people but it was perverted into something else. Also I did have a couple of instances of abuse as a child, which added to this. I diddnt learn much from the bible about my sexuality to be honest but the Holy Spirit led me to the infomation I desperately asked for. Don’t get me wrong I still struggle sometimes even now, but not in the same way, I recognise those attractions for what they are now, so it’s more of a personal battle against my past fleshly nature because I recognise that I have become a different person since coming to Christ, For the past year or so I’ve even started having opposite sex attraction, and I asked God for this, I want to have a family some day, wife and kids, all that. And I’m well on my way to being able to achieve that, God has been too good to me, my homosexuality is just one of the many aspects of my past life, I was a horrible person to put it nicely, which like homosexuality still haunts me time to time, but God is always there and my desire for my old habits has been dissipating over time. I do believe one day I will be completely free of my past. 🙏 Amen

[@kolasis4994]

You and I have the same testimony! I have (still presently struggling hard) the same driven factor of the need for a father like figure, and as certain men did come into my life for a time, the urges were dormant. As life changed and I lost fellowship with these men I succumbed to sexual desire and it worked in the moment, but I was always left with a gaping sense of emptiness and shame. I allowed it to go on for 3 years, nearly deafening myself to the Holy Spirit. He let me suffer greatly in this sinful lifestyle. I avoided it at all costs in my early 20's, desperately clinging to remaining faithful for a wife. It was when I was 27 (30 now) I decided to take matters into my own hands, and its been the worst 3 years of my life. The depression, the loneliness, the shame, the alcohol to numb it all, it brought all sorts of defilement that stained my soul. I wanted to be happy, and not alone. Now, I want to just imitate God's Holiness as much as I can, if that means remaining celibate for the rest of my life, I prayed that I would faithfully obey that. I think of James 4, about how His Spirit Jealously yearns for the affection from our spirit. If we resist the Devil, He WILL flee, and as we Draw near to God He draws near to us. I'm washing my hands from this lifestyle in Jesus name, trusting the Spirit will both purge me of this desire, and walk with into a deeper communion and Fellowship.

[@narasheen1375]

Wow thanks for sharing! Your testimony helped me understand more about homosexuality and helped me how to pray for the community. It’s such a blessing to see you so full of God’s love :).

[@VECTORThoma5]

@@kolasis4994 It always works in the moment but costs down the line ay, I know the feeling, not wanting to be alone, its hard to learn how to be at peace being alone, god and the Holy Spirit are there always, but letting go of that need for another person is hard, pray for knowledge and I’ll pray for you too, and remember God loves you, and God forgives you, but try to forgive yourself too…it takes a little longer, but resist physically and mentally and it will come, just don’t ever give up, I pray that you may find knowledge that gives you a deeer understanding of your own spirit, and that you find a place within yourself where your mind can be 100% made up on not returning to former sins, I pray that he reveals to you how to be content and at peace being alone, while remembering always that you are never truely alone, I pray that he gives you deeper understanding of your spirit and gives you discernment on what your spirit truely wants without desire, so whenever you feel tempted you might look to that place and remind yourself of the truth, Amen 🙏 Much love my friend and brother ♥️

[@VECTORThoma5]

@@narasheen1375 Thank you for your kind words! And I’m glad it helped you gain a deeper understanding, God bless you ♥️

[@GodWokeMeUp]

Wow this is truly an amazing testimony, I've never seem anyone explain it like this and it makes a lot of sense. Thank you for sharing. 🙏❤

[@LindseyMinakerMusic]

This was an incredible video!! Thank you both so much for your ministry, your boldness, and your passion for Christ and Truth! God bless you and continue to protect you and provide for all your needs.

[@onamiilove777]

As someone who lived that lifestyle, I can tell you you must choose this day whom you will serve. Sexual sin and commitment to christ CANNOT COEXIST or your fooling yourself. The struggle is real and God displine is even more powerful. " come from among them" serve me and me only." I chose the latter and hv been transformed and blessed beyond expectations. I pray that the the veil be lifted from those in bondage too true freedom and joy in christ.

[@KathyakaNina]

Really love this discussion & thank you for clarifying Side A & B. I never heard of that & I was confused. Glad to hear such a great episode. Christopher came to my Christian University when I was a freshman & glad he talked about this subject because at that time I had a old friend from elementary school shared he come out & I wanted to know to love him as a Christian but not wanting to steer away from God’s word that I know is truth. I know some people I went to Christian University with & have a distance with some based on their stance of biblical sexuality, I still love them but it is sad for them to have their identity in what the world says than what God’s word says about us. Thank you for speaking on a difficult subject with Grace & truth. I really want the church to speak more on this especially that a lot of young adults really struggle with it. God bless you both & your ministries always ❤

[@jenellel2019]

Hi Christopher! Solid Biblically sound information as usual. I would just add that now as a trauma therapist with an understanding of how God can meet our deepest needs through healing, He IS near to the broken-hearted. Many find the reduction or eradication of their desires through that developmental and other healing processes. I know this isn’t Christopher’s story or understanding, but as a sinner with former same sex desires, the developmental healing process was vital to me still being alive. Inner healing is not Freudian, it’s Biblical.

[@theologymatters5127]

I love Christopher. I also saw the show with Rosaria on Becketts show. It was great! Thanks for this show.

[@tonyadieker4556]

This guy knows being LGBT is not a sin. He's lying to on purpose by choice and now it's time for his judgement. Remember, it was his choice. I am Elijah of Malachi 4:5-6. Chris is female in gendet by the way. He also teaches the moneyary tithing lie to intentionally steal from people and sells books using the gospel even though he knows it is evil.

[@mottgirl13]

Awesome testimony of God’s grace and love. Thank you for putting this out there.. love how Christopher continues to point all the goodness he received all, is from God.

[@tonyadieker4556]

This guy knows being LGBT is not a sin. He's lying to on purpose by choice and now it's time for his judgement. Remember, it was his choice. I am Elijah of Malachi 4:5-6. Chris is female in gendet by the way. He also teaches the moneyary tithing lie to intentionally steal from people and sells books using the gospel even though he knows it is evil.

[@moosechuckle]

A huge issue, especially in today’s culture, is our individual identities. Before anything else, father, husband, man, I am a Christian. Our culture, probably due to the absence of God and this victim mentality, has caused people to loose their identity in faith, and find their identity in their actions. I fear this idea has infiltrated the church, and more and more people are finding their identity in their sins and lifestyles, and not in Christ.

[@jaquirox6579]

Misplaced identity begins to arise when you have nothing to root your life in.

[@tonyadieker4556]

This guy knows being LGBT is not a sin. He's lying to on purpose by choice and now it's time for his judgement. Remember, it was his choice. I am Elijah of Malachi 4:5-6.

[@jamestrotter3162]

@@tonyadieker4556 Jesus Christ disagrees with you.

[@valley5617]

That’s they key - people identify as their sin. How many adultery or larceny pride parades are there?

[@toddfordr8218]

In a world where knowledge isn't controlled by religion people can now learn the history of the christian movement since its conception. Most only learn the origin of the faith itself. They dont take the time to learn the history of their chosen church or denomination. They know Hebrew history better than they know their own. The old testament showed its leaders faults and the consequences that would follow. Christianity does not. The Roman's spread Christianity and since then Democracy and Christianity spread as one. Everyone uses a version of the Roman Catholic bible. Yet they claim still hebrew history. Why if they are such proud people do they not wish to know their own histories? Is it because its ugly and without repentance. Is it because their holy leaders were known to participate in homosexuality and various other sins that would make us cringe? The church hides its history in the same way governments do. How is that holy? And why would I choose to learn the truth from liars and thieves. Faith in a holy books is not faith in God. It is believing in the first "man" that claimed God spoke to him for the purpose of leading his people. That's all. Every "prophet" is unique. Just as every man is unique.

[@rodsalvage7121]

Thanks to Christopher. Very enlightening and put things into their right perspective.

[@vamingxiong4376]

"Can you have sinful thoughts and be a Christian?" Yes you can. "Can you live out your sin and claim to be a Christian?" Heck No!

[@vampyplays]

can you judge thy neighbor and be a christian? no:)

[@ribs5274]

@@vampyplays Agreed but that comment wasn't judgement - more a truth claim according to a biblical world-view.

[@chardo24]

You cannot be a Christian if you are having sinful thoughts. Jesus said having sinful thoughts is the same as doing them. Matthew 5:28. Read the Bible.

[@vampyplays]

@@chardo24 being gay isn’t having sinful thoughts

[@chardo24]

@@vampyplays what is sin?

[@tommasolombardi3520]

Please pray for my son as I eagerly wait for God to save his soul. Great video

[@jaquirox6579]

Great video! I’ll have to circle back to listen more intently. Thank you for covering this very applicable topic right now! 🙏🏽♥️

[@tonyadieker4556]

This guy knows being LGBT is not a sin. He's lying to on purpose by choice and now it's time for his judgement. Remember, it was his choice. I am Elijah of Malachi 4:5-6.

[@jamestrotter3162]

@@tonyadieker4556 Jesus Christ disagrees with you.

[@hhstark8663]

@@tonyadieker4556 In *Matthew 19:1-12* , Jesus said that marriage is between ONE adult man and ONE adult woman. _"For this reason a man ... will live with his wife. The two will become one."_ And sex should only happen in marriage. Therefore, Jesus indirectly says that polygamy, bestiality, pedophilia, prostitution etc are sinful, as they all require sexual acts outside of biblical marriage.

[@kirstinBioethics555]

Seven minutes in; already crying. What a testimony! God bless.

[@fireaboss]

Out of a Far Country.... one of the best books ever, especially for parents of prodigals.

[@rcasey81]

Amen! Jesus Christ saved my life on 12/07/2021. I was apart of the LGBT community for most of my life...never though I could change but that's because I couldn't do it, God has to do it for me. I REPENTED and fully committed to Gods word and am attending Bible college to become a pastor. I believe God made me for a time like this. God bless y'all and may we remember that we can't change God's word. Amen

[@onamiilove777]

Repentance is KEY!! IT RESTORES YOUR RELATIONSHIP TO GOD AND SELF?..IT DID ME🙏🏾

[@stankearsley6043]

God does not make you sin or to choose to sin .We choose to sin or we choose not to sin. Blessings.

[@ChrysSayers]

💖I’ve been saying this forever! Great talk!!! 💖

[@onething247]

The best discussion on this topic I have heard in my fifty years as a believer. Thank you Alisa and Dr. Yuan.

[@kimberlymoore8172]

Mr. Yuan's testimony is so powerful.

[@dragonhold4]

(9:05) _Unconditional love is not the same thing as unconditional approval of my behavior_ (9:55) _The opposite of homosexuality is not heterosexuality, that's not the goal. The opposite of homosexuality is holiness; as a matter of fact, the opposite of every sin is holiness. I don't need to focus upon whether I'm struggling or tempted. I just need to focus upon living a life of holiness and purity because change is not the absence of temptations. Change is a spirit rod ability to be holy even in the midst of temptations_ -Christopher Yuan

[@CharlieKraken]

I look forward to the video, but the answer to this is fairly simple with a Biblical worldview. Can someone with homosexual temptations, and/or someone who used to practice homosexuality, be a Christian? Yes. As we all experience temptation in some form and homosexual behavior is entirely forgivable by God once repented from the same as any other sin. Can a practicing homosexual be a Christian? No. As that demonstrates a lack of repentance, and repentance is as important as belief when it comes to being saved and accepting God's forgiveness. They must repent of that lifestyle in order to be saved. We all struggle with sin yes, even after being saved, but to continually partake in a sin while proclaiming it to not actually be a sin is a clear sign of an unrepentant attitude and means that that person is not truly saved. The way to salvation in Christian faith is not simply "believe", it is "repent and believe". God bless and I pray for increased clarity on this topic within the church. We must examine everything with a Biblical worldview, instead of approaching The Bible with a worldly point of view.

[@tonyadieker4556]

This guy knows being LGBT is not a sin. He's lying to on purpose by choice and now it's time for his judgement. Remember, it was his choice. I am Elijah of Malachi 4:5-6. Chris is female in gendet by the way. He also teaches the moneyary tithing lie to intentionally steal from people and sells books using the gospel even though he knows it is evil.

[@Rozie222]

..

[@GodWokeMeUp]

Thank you so much for interviews like this. It's so helpful to understand and to be able to talk about these things.

[@jenniferhenn7874]

This was so helpful. Everyone needs to be sure to watch to the end.

[@RoyceVanBlaricome]

A little more than halfway thru and must pause now to go make sure the birds are all set up for the night. Wanted to make a quick note to say two things. First, I think this is the best and most accurate detailing of what's been going on with with "A" or "B" side, Revoice, etc. and Christopher is spot on with his analysis. (On a side note, I do wish he had delved a little more into Exodus and it's start with Joe Dallas and then what happened when he left/was runoff. The second thing I just quickly wanna mention is Christophers commentary on 1st Cor. 7. I think he missed the boat there with his interpretation of Paul's use of "calling". The portion of the passage that Christopher refers to is sandwiched between two passages, and in fact the entire chapter, regarding Marriage and Divorce. Furthermore, Paul refers to his singleness as a "gift" earlier. So I do believe in the "gift of singleness" but it is the exception and not the rule for obvious reasons. All that said, he's spot on with what's really behind the A/B/Revoice "agenda". It's playing around with sin. Oh, and I almost forgot. The one thing I REALLY liked what Christopher bringing out the TRUTH that even the desires and thoughts are sinful. Doug Wilson wrote a fantastic article a few years ago entitled "Growing Corn On An Asteroid". Look forward to finishing this when I get back in but for now VERY thankful for the refreshing TRUTH and wisdom being relayed.

[@RoyceVanBlaricome]

Finished it. LOVED Christophers parting comments. Spot on!! NOT a message you hear much today.

[@garypadgett7168]

Wonderful to hear your guest speaker’s heart commitment to the truth of God and His Word. POWERFUL! Also wonderful to hear him give glory to God for graciously and sovereignly pursuing him while he was yet blind. This should give hope to all because God is able to and willing to save. His testimony clearly speaks of God’s sovereign choosing to open his blind eyes and turn to Christ from his sin. Luke 9:23-25 “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me. For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will save it. What good is it for someone to gain the whole world, and yet lose or forfeit their very self?” The power of the Holy Spirit to convict us of sin transformed this man’s life. This is the gospel. No change of mind, no changed life, no salvation. Salvation results in a changed life like your guest. What a powerful testimony. Though denying oneself (repentance) is possible only by the power of the Holy Spirit working in us, the change of heart and mind is also the enablement wrought by the Holy Spirit and makes us hate what we once were, unrepentant sinners. Ezekiel 36:31 “You will remember your evil ways, and your deeds that were not good, and you will loathe yourselves for your iniquities and your abominations.” John 12:25 “Whoever loves his life loses it, and whoever hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.” Luke 14:26 “If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple.”

[@teacherkate690]

For those of yall saying judge not, John 7 is taken out of context. It is saying if you are living in sin, you should not point out others living in sin. This hypocrisy is pointsd to that you should pull the log out of your own eye to help your brother. In John 7, we see we are to judge righteously.. in 1 Corinthians 2:15 it reaffirms that a spiritual person should judge, but be blameless or unable to be judged. Basically that they not be a hypocrite. This idea is reaffirmed in romans 2:1-3.. galatians 6:1 points to how people who are spiritual should respond to those who are in sin... Galatians 6:1 Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted. Romans: Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things. We know that the judgment of God rightly falls on those who practice such things. Do you suppose, O man-you who judge those who practice such things and yet do them yourself-that you will escape the judgment of God? 1 COr: The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one. If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day? 24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment. John 7 Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

[@gregorichtimothy]

Thank you Alicia I am beginning to trust your Podcast and your love for the Lord thank you for all your doing

[@des711]

God heals and gives us hope. God freed me from the alcohol, I was continually drinking until I threw up. I was destroying myself. God saved me and healed my mind so that I no longer had obsessive thoughts to drink alcohol. I no longer want or crave for alcohol and it has been just over 20 years since God freed me. I thank God for loving me! God is Great! Thank you Jesus for loving us and saving us from our sins. Thank you God!

[@karenlippett4342]

Thank you for this discussion.

[@G.H._bunny]

I really enjoyed listening I hope this helps alot of people.

[@mrskerry8111]

My favourite comment of so many great ones in this video - ‘the most important thing that sets Christianity apart is that there is hope even in the midst of oppression and that we are not victims but we are in Christ victors.’ That concept is life transforming if we would just take hold of it and live it.

[@lionoffireministries]

You can’t have unity unless you have uniformity to God‘s Word 🙏✝️

[@tonyadieker4556]

This guy knows being LGBT is not a sin. He's lying to on purpose by choice and now it's time for his judgement. Remember, it was his choice. I am Elijah of Malachi 4:5-6. Chris is female in gendet by the way. He also teaches the moneyary tithing lie to intentionally steal from people and sells books using the gospel even though he knows it is evil.

[@jiwakumusic]

Wow,what a great conversation👍🏽. A must see for everyone. Sharing this with fam & friends 😄

[@tonyadieker4556]

This guy knows being LGBT is not a sin. He's lying to on purpose by choice and now it's time for his judgement. Remember, it was his choice. I am Elijah of Malachi 4:5-6. Chris is female in gendet by the way. He also teaches the moneyary tithing lie to intentionally steal from people and sells books using the gospel even though he knows it is evil.

[@PLA5207]

A most excellent, informative, authentic, and Christ-based interview. Thank you both and blessings to you and yours, always and in all ways. Doc Phil

[@tonyadieker4556]

This guy knows being LGBT is not a sin. He's lying to on purpose by choice and now it's time for his judgement. Remember, it was his choice. I am Elijah of Malachi 4:5-6. Chris is female in gendet by the way. He also teaches the moneyary tithing lie to intentionally steal from people and sells books using the gospel even though he knows it is evil.

[@PeggyfromPorcupine]

I may be a bit naive here in what I am saying in this whole issue, but here goes. As humans we are taught that sex is fun - which isn't a lie. But look around the whole creation of God. The act of sex is first and foremost for procreation. Birds, animals, etc. have a form of sex behaviour for procreation. Same with humans and that is why God planned it male/female and only within marriage because babies do happen. This is not emphasized at all. Having said that I know the whole gay, etc., issue goes deeper and I really really appreciated Christopher's presentation. As a teacher once said "Focus, students, focus" and that is what we, as Christians, need to do - focus on the issue not being about the sex act but who we are before God. I'll have to re-listen to this a few times to be able to grasp it. Thank you.

[@harrywilson404]

Thank you so much for the clarifications !

[@chrisneverforget9117]

You have a very good show. Always indepth and intelligent coverage of relevant issues. Bless you.

[@melissazabower339]

I appreciate what Christopher said: the opposite of homosexuality is not heterosexuality; the opposite is holiness. As a young woman, I struggled with heterosexual sin and I assumed getting married would solve the problem. Over the past 15 years God has shown me the answer is not marriage -- it's more of Him. I don't consider myself celibate; I'm a woman who loves God. Full stop. I do think that churches -- conservative churches who follow and teach the Word of God -- sometimes makes a mistake in how we treat people with same sex attraction. We call out their sin because it's one we can see and point to and say "that's not my sin". That is sin. No question. But so is gossip, anger, gluttony in terms of overspending or accruing money because we don't trust God to provide. And any number of sins we don't confront each other on. I believe that's something we need to work on as a Church. Thank you for this conversation!

[@christincommon5496]

Melissa, I agree with you that we need to get back to Biblical discipline in the churches and helping to keep each other accountable. We have compromised our lives to the point that churches are basically sin management centers instead of congregations of Christ-following set apart people who love God and each other and care enough about the lost to share the gospel with them.

[@melissazabower339]

Yes. Part of the problem is that we don't allow ourselves to be in true community. We don't correct each other because we don't feel it's our place; and it's not my place because you haven't given me permission, as some put it. It requires us to be vulnerable with each other.

[@JR-rs5qs]

it may be tough with his current health profile, but I really hope God would bless this man with a wife! with God, all things are possible.

[@ruekjaeg4863]

This is really interesting, I have to go to bed but will finish tomorrow

[@tonyadieker4556]

This guy knows being LGBT is not a sin. He's lying to on purpose by choice and now it's time for his judgement. Remember, it was his choice. I am Elijah of Malachi 4:5-6. Chris is female in gendet by the way. He also teaches the moneyary tithing lie to intentionally steal from people and sells books using the gospel even though he knows it is evil.

[@EmilyNKennard]

This is outstanding!! Thank you so much for inviting Christopher Yuan. 🙌

[@tjflash60]

This is such a helpful discussion. We must be careful to make our issues not about, which sin people may be involved in but sin, as we all strive to be holy as GOD is holy.

[@shanedwilson]

I met Christopher Yuan this week in Kansas City. Great guy and awesome teacher

[@kevinbacon922]

“The opposite of homosexuality is holiness.” -Dr. Christopher Yuan. I love how he said he does not find his identity in his sexuality but rather in Christ.

[@shirleybaskett9813]

Yes this was first a slogan used by Exodus and popularized by Sy Rogers.

[@kevinbacon922]

@@shirleybaskett9813 Thank you Miss Shirley, I was unaware of this. All too often we identify ourselves as this race, or that sexuality, or this denomination, or that nationality, or this ethnicity, (the list goes on) but ultimately, God only sees the Body of Christ. We are the RIGHTEOUSNESS of God in Christ Jesus. Whenever we see or say anything else, we are saying what God says is not true. God’s Word is always true.

[@dandathomas6852]

Of course that is wrong. Even a child knows the opposite is heterosexuality. He is just advancing a vile “SSA” agenda. Ignorant.

[@richpetre2561]

I am rewatching this conversation. Christopher I really enjoy your explanation of the state of the culture and the way Christ remains to be the truth we are all to cling to.

[@Orangerose3447]

It’s good to see Dr. Yuan! Got to see him in person at my college. Truly blessed by his book on sexuality. God bless!

[@melonezak5796]

I really enjoy listening to Christopher. Loved his 1st book. In my heart, I hear God say He has brought him "For such a time as this." He is humble, speaks the truth with such love. Thank you Christopher!

[@Axisearth]

Great discussion. One of the problems with being side b is that side b folks will say homosexual sex is sin. I would not do it because I'm being obedient to Christ, but I'll support you in doing it (side a). That's what broke me about it.

[@romanticandperky]

All these labels are man-made and not of God: 'straight', 'gay', 'bisexual', 'trans', etc. All 'holy sex' is 'heterosexual', but not all 'heterosexuality' is holy. Once again, 'heterosexuality' and 'homosexuality' are man-made labels, and not of God. What are we all? Sinners who need to be saved! Both the action and thought involved in sexual immorality are sins. Both can be forgiven. The Lord knows your heart. If you confess sincerely that you are a sinner who needs to be saved, and surrender all to The Lord, He will never give up on you, though we will likely all continue to 'fall short' by our own works. Surrender all; not just your actions, but your minds, too; though, as long as we are in this life, we are likely still to fall short concerning both. That's why we need a Saviour, folks; all of us!

[@Topg1]

Amen. Amen. Amen

[@tonyadieker4556]

This guy knows being LGBT is not a sin. He's lying to on purpose by choice and now it's time for his judgement. Remember, it was his choice. I am Elijah of Malachi 4:5-6. Chris is female in gendet by the way. He also teaches the moneyary tithing lie to intentionally steal from people and sells books using the gospel even though he knows it is evil.

[@romanticandperky]

@KTTGHMTJWYCBLAC : Thank you for this criticism. You are right in that I, and many others, have not quite surrendered ALL to The Lord; and yes, there really is no good excuse for that. Many of us are still 'stuck in neutral'. However, you are not quite right in saying that I have 'swept it all under the rug'. Romans 5:8-'even yet while we were still sinners-'. Jesus does cover for us, even yet while we are still sinners; however: 1 Corinthians 6:9-10. Paul rebukes the Corinthians to the effect that they can't continue in their sins; that they got to, in effect, get unstuck from neutral and leave their sins behind altogether! Christians are supposed to rebuke each other over these things, and encourage each other to surrender even more so to The Lord. I've taken note of your rebuke, and I wish you a good and blessed Good Friday and Easter. Amen.

[@shariz2998]

Thank you for this informative discussion!

[@paulajames6149]

Love this discussion. Very thoughtful and clear. Thank you both.

[@farmassist1248]

Alisa, maybe you can interview some ex lgbtq that are not as popular and as recognized as the ones you have interviewed. There are a lot of us out there that are just common, Jesus loving ex-gays. We don't have books, we don't have speaking engagements, but we have the spirit of God in us and testimonies that are beautiful. Blessings in Christ! ❤️

[@heatherchambers6701]

57:20 Dr. Yuan says that temptation is not sin but it is rooted in our sin nature. He repeats this a few minutes later. While I agree that temptation is not sin, I pumped the breaks at his assertion that temptation is rooted in our sin nature. How, then, was Jesus tempted? Did He have a sin nature and was able to not give in to it? I understand Jesus' temptations came from the outside and while ours can come from the outside they can also come from the inside. Did Adam also have a sin nature BEFORE he gave in to temptation in the garden? Clearly Adam is different than Jesus in that Adam COULD sin while Jesus couldn't. I genuinely would appreciate Dr. Yuan's thoughts on this. I agree wholeheartedly with his encouragement to define our terms. It would be beneficial to me if you'd circle back to this statement. ❤️

[@bretttimmons2653]

I think a key question with all sin is “What do you yearn for?” If the answer is not biblical and/or centered on Christ then it really needs to be evaluated as a grounding principal of your life. We all desire things in this world, but we are not driven by them. If you are driven by a desire that is contrary to the Word, why would you place your identity in that?

[@MarkWCorbett1]

This was an informative and helpful video. I thank God for this conversation and I pray that God will use it to help many people.

[@annestansell1523]

Christopher do you teach at Coleson fellowship? I thought I saw you in an advert. on their site.

[@HoldFastApolpgetics]

This was such an amazing (and important) interview… Thank you, Alisa and Christopher!!

[@midnightdusk5037]

I can't remember the Christian author who first coined the term, but he summed it up nice and succinctly. "The goal of life in Christ is not heterosexuality. But a holy sexuality." And that goes for all Christians, regardless of their attractions.

[@vincentaviles1333]

wow! when Christ said "I am the way, the truth, and the life " Christ has called us to be like him. but he has told us that great and unsearchable things. He has made all that we're enjoying, and to hear in Jeremiah 33:3 and I'll will show you great and unsearchable things that are greater? And 1 john3:2 Unfortunately the world has the inclination and proclivity to desensitize us. but, praise be to our Lord that He has shown us He awesomeness!

[@lindipeterson4549]

This was a great listen. Thank you

[@paulbriggs3072]

Job said: “I made a covenant with my eyes not to look lustfully at a young woman." It works, because it begins with the eyes.

[@mspotentiality]

I can’t help but think of Isaiah 55:11 “so is My Word that goes out from My mouth: it will not return to Me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it”. The fact that Dr. Yuan threw his father’s Bible in the garbage and in prison Dr. Yuan found the Gideon New Testament in prison in the garbage.

[@sheilacabrera3986]

I completely agree w/what he said about speaking Truth. It doesn't matter who speaks it, bc who speaks it doesn't add to, or take away from what it, or should I say WHO Truth is (btw, science isn't the truth, but it is PART of the Truth & as such will always be in agreement w/the Truth)! This has been historically recognized from the beginning, even outwardly among those who didn't necessarily understand, or accept it, but outwardly acknowledged what history bore out to be reliable guide for human flourishing in a civil society. Those who denied the existence of truth, or attempted to negate it via their, or someone else's "authority", whether that authority came from culture, power, or academia was rightly identified as being a logical fallacy (fallacy, meaning lie) known as Argumentum ad Verecundiam, or "Argument from authority", which leads us back to..it doesn't matter who says it, what matters is whether or not what one is talking about, basing a law on, using to ascertain guilt, or innocence, going to court over, standing for, advocating for, following, seeking, marching for, LIVING FOR, even dying for is the Truth.

[@dabbler1166]

The answer is in ROMANS Chapter 1, verses 26-32. It'll be interesting to see what the video might say. It kinda disgusts me that when the Bible has a clear answer that we can all look up and read, and that is clear and not worded vaguely, that we either: A) have to preach on it for an hour and a half to "explain" it, when it was already definite and obvious, OR-- B) simply declare the verse as "Legalism" and be done with it. How convenient.

[@CharlieKraken]

Amen! The problem is that we as a church in the west have not been bold enough in declaring the truth on this topic! We have let people's feelings and negative backlash distract us from teaching sound doctrine, as we feel as though we have to pacify the complainers before we can do such things, which is a total mistake!

[@tonyadieker4556]

Romans 1:27 All of the men were male in regatds to gender, all of the women were female. It is not referring to Eunuchs where one partner is transgender.

[@tonyadieker4556]

This guy knows being LGBT is not a sin. He's lying to on purpose by choice and now it's time for his judgement. Remember, it was his choice. I am Elijah of Malachi 4:5-6. Chris is female in gendet by the way. He also teaches the moneyary tithing lie to intentionally steal from people and sells books using the gospel even though he knows it is evil.

[@amyjoyce2301]

Hello, I enjoyed the discussion very much. Thank You. Can anyone assist me? 😊 @ 36:36 Christopher refers to a verse of Paul's (what state you were in when called?) but Chris spoke so quickly I couldn't understand which book and chapter he was speaking of.

[@lookup7055]

I always enjoy listening to Christopher Yuan.

[@tonyadieker4556]

This guy knows being LGBT is not a sin. He's lying to on purpose by choice and now it's time for his judgement. Remember, it was his choice. I am Elijah of Malachi 4:5-6. Chris is female in gendet by the way.

[@jimfarrington8278]

We also have in our literature a handout developed by Portland fellowship that’s called differing views and it it shows side a side b and then two columns of Christianity regarding homosexuality and the differences between those who have experienced freedom from same sex attraction/homosexuality and those who may be and/or opposed to the getting at the roots of SSA or the causality. Highly recommend.

[@jimfarrington8278]

@@melissaarmstrong my answer is going to be delicate here. When I walked out of homosexuality, I did not instantly declare myself heterosexual. All I knew, was that I was following Jesus wherever HE led me. At some point He did reveal the truth that I had been created (with intent) to be heterosexual. Understanding this empowered me to really yield and surrender my sexuality to the work of the cross. This is imperative. I don’t think he danced around it, I mean he did point to the reality of God bringing him a wife if He chose. I hear some say that the opposite of homosexuality is not heterosexuality but rather holiness. I disagree in part. Yes we are to be holy, and homosexuality is not compatible with holiness, for it is unclean. When one truly comes into agreement with God about His created intent and the truth of His word, we absolutely cannot dismiss that He created man for woman and woman for man. Genesis 2:21-24. And with that understanding, what conclusion can anyone come away with but that account of Adam and Eve that they were created and intended for each other by God. So, walking out of homosexuality does mean we are coming into agreement with God about how we were created to be. Now, that being said, I can promise you that the first thought coming out of homosexuality is not “ how can I find an opposite sex spouse”. Some can’t even fathom the idea. I mean imagine you’ve devoted decades of your life immersed in a gay identity and surrounded yourself with anything and everything to support that identity. Now you’ve responded to Jesus and surrendered all. Heterosexuality will be the furthest from your mind at that point. He can and does transform the heart AND mind but that takes time.

[@oslo456]

A very helpful and informative interview/discussion, Alisa. Thank you.

[@deborahdedman7064]

I am glad I actually listened to this. A truly right approach to the question and fallacy of Gender identity. We identify with Christ. First and foremost and our whole identity is united in Him. I agree with Yuan that making one heterosexual is not the goal and it cannot be attained through manly psychological endeavors by pursuit of pleasing God and humility and have seen that this has had an effect on even thier desires in the inner man. That is how my friend also was set free. Starting with the decision to follow Christ wholeheartedly and in obedience to His Word regarding sin.

[@sarahkokura6349]

I really enjoy how he articulates these thoughts. Laurie Krieg does a good job call all to holiness and what biblical marriage actually is. Part of the issue we have is something Laurie said “we put a ring on it and call it marriage and it’s really legalize sin” or something like that in her book. That was like ice water in my face. Highly Hilary suggest “impossible marriage” by Laurie. There is a strong unbiblical view of marriage in the church, and idol hiding in plain sight.

[@ajdavies4677]

YES! YOU CAN be Christian and also someone who is not physically, emotionally, and intimately attracted to the opposite sex. I am writing this to my struggling Christian brothers and sisters (and to encourage other same sex attracted persons to come to Christ) constantly beaten and flogged by other fellow Christians who think they are able to better understand the WILL of GOD than GOD Himself. I know your pain! Jesus has pursued me for as long as I can remember - though I was not raised in a Christian home. And I wanted HIM with all my heart and soul. It was not Jesus who condemned me..shamed me…closed me out, and kept me from him, but other sinners whom he also loved and died for. Once I shut their loud voices out and asked HIM directly to work in my life…and that I wanted a relationship with HIM more than anything, is when I and my life started to truly change, though not the way that other Christians want to hear (John 14:6 “no one comes to the Father except through me”…not people who claim to be Christian and their congregations). God did NOT take away my homosexuality, but has turned me into a new creature in Christ, to God be the glory!! STOP listening to them. They know not what they do and say. Go to Christ himself. Don’t listen to how others read the Bible…let HIM guide you as you delve into HIS words. HE will help you to forgive and love them despite how psychologically toxic they have been to you and others. Read the Holy Bible Everyday while praying before you read that HE helps you to understand what you are reading. Come humbly and with a repentant heart and ask HIM to work in you and in your life. Seek HIS WILL for your life and not what will get you accepted by the world and not will have you accepted by other Christians. To be a Christian and saved is to confess you are a sinner…believe that Jesus is who HE professed to be, died on the cross for our sins and rose to sit at the right hand of God. HE fulfilled THE LAW…stop listening to Christian legalism. It is GOD who sanctifies. You just must surrender. If God speaks to you to be celibate - listen….if you do not hear that…keep living your life for Christ. If he removes your same sex desires WONDERFUL…if HE does not, still allow HIM to use you for HIS kingdom. HE will! Trust HIM and HIM alone. You are LOVED beyond measure. HE knows this is hard and you are hurting - but HE will not allow pain without something new to be born (Isaiah 66:9) as well as the character that is being born in you (Romans 5:3-4). Keep running the race set before You and you alone. This is between You and God...not you and everyone else. They have their own race to run.

[@kristiwerling4574]

I know Anne Kennedy! I can't wait to see you two together on KZbin! I went to high school with her in West Africa at boarding school!! 😁

[@tonyadieker4556]

This guy knows being LGBT is not a sin. He's lying to on purpose by choice and now it's time for his judgement. Remember, it was his choice. I am Elijah of Malachi 4:5-6. Chris is female in gendet by the way. He also teaches the moneyary tithing lie to intentionally steal from people and sells books using the gospel even though he knows it is evil.

[@clarkemorledge2398]

I do appreciate Christopher Yuan, but it still seems like he is misrepresenting the position of Revoice and Spiritual Friendship as teaching that sexual attraction CAN not change, as he claims at 38:47. I have never heard that expressed that way. I do not know of anyone affiliated with Revoice and Spiritual Friendship try to limit God that way. Rather, it is a simply a recognition that God has not brought about such change. Why Christopher thinks that Revoice teaches that one should not be open to marriage betrays the fact that his friend, Nate Collins, the founder of Revoice, is married to a woman!!! At 36:48, Christopher is correct to say that Paul's teaching about "calling" is not a call to celibacy, in 1 Corinthians 7, but it is the call of salvation. But we must receive the whole counsel of God and recognize that Matthew 19:11-12 affirms that "there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let the one who is able to receive this receive it." While this is not the language of "call," it still suggests something similar for folks who believe that lifetime celibacy is what God has for them, for the sake of the kingdom. Frankly, it just seems that Christopher Yuan is talking past Revoice/Spiritual Friendship. It would be great if Alisa could get both Christopher Yuan and Nate Collins on together for a discussion, to hash some of this out.

[@nancysherrill3189]

Out of the abundance of our heart we speak. And in the abundance of our heart lies the root of our behavior. It is all a heart issue.

[@MrTheclevercat]

I think a good episode would be "is it possible for christians to be moral?" with the conclusion that its very hard or impossible to do so. You could have any christian you wanted as a guest.

[@kimberlyguzan2613]

If being moral or holy is impossible, why does scripture tell us I CAN DO ALL THINGS THROUGH CHRIST WHY STRENGTHENS ME? The closer we draw to Christ, the easier resisting sinful acts or thoughts become easier.

[@CassTeaElle]

If the whole "spiritual friendship" thing has nothing to do with a sexual or romantic relationship, then why can't they just do that with someone of the opposite sex? That would literally just be marriage, and it would be holy. And then if they end up falling in love and having sex, it would be perfectly appropriate. It's obvious that that whole concept is just deception and playing with fire. Why have a ceremony and relationship like that with someone instead of just being regular friends? And if it's not about your sexual desires, then if you want that emotional intimacy of marriage, why not just get married to someone of the opposite sex who agrees that you aren't interested in having sex? Why not have lesbians marry gays, instead of two people of the same sex having a "spiritual friendship" ceremony and union with each other? It's just a way to skirt around the issue and get married to someone of the same sex without calling it marriage, so you can pretend it's Biblical and okay.

[@gregorymcelyea877]

"Change is not the absence of temptations, but change is the spirit-wrought ability to be holy even in the midst of temptations." I think this was one of the more helpful statements that Dr. Yuan made. It captures so precisely what I and many others in the Side B camp believe and proclaim. However, it seemed that Dr. Yuan’s subsequent statements were at best a mixed bag. In particular, I am concerned that this interview fails to consider the diversity among those in the Side B camp, and I am concerned that it misrepresents what many of us within the Side B camp mean when we refer to our same-sex attraction. I cannot speak to the origin of the terms “Side A” and “Side B.” They might have developed exactly as Dr. Yuan described. However, what they mean to me and many others today is a different story. I do not know anyone personally who limits what God can do. None of us would say, for example, “I can't change.” We believe that if God so desired, he could change our “desires” (our same-sex attraction). In fact, many of our stories involve asking God for years to change such desires. For most of us, God simply has not intervened in that way. In fact, many of us have ultimately found it unhelpful to pray for this, particularly when we consider the following two things: (1) Nothing in the Bible promises freedom from these desires; (2) Because nothing in the Bible promises freedom from these desires, we might actually be setting ourselves up for tremendous disappointment by demanding that God grant such freedom when, in fact, He has not promised to do so in Scripture. Is being attracted to someone of the same sex a sin? No. It is a desire. Desire in itself is not sinful. Conservative churches in the United States have done a poor job distinguishing between desire and lust. According to the bible, lust for anyone who is not our spouse is a sin. Desire is not. Sexual desire, at least how many of us in the Side B community define it, is involuntary. It is outside of our control. We often think of it in one of two ways. First, it is a physiological response to specific stimuli. Second, it is an abiding sex drive. Both of these are involved in same-sex attraction, just as they are involved in heterosexual attraction. Lust, by contrast, is voluntary. It is not outside our control. It is willfully thinking about another person in a sexual way. The purpose of this willful act is to produce or to reinforce sexual arousal. This is the way in which Dr. Yuan seems to be using the word “desires,” but it is not the way in which any Side B Christian I know uses that term. Every Side B Christian I know uses the words “gay,” “same-sex attraction,” “sexual orientation,” and “sexual desire” to refer specifically to the involuntary physiological response that happens to be triggered by the same sex. In other words, it's the part that's outside our control. We do affirm that these involuntary desires can tempt us, but we also recognize that temptation in itself is not sin. Instead, temptation is the appeal to satisfy our desires in sinful ways. Look at how James described this dynamic: “No one, when tempted, should say, ‘I am being tempted by God,’ for God cannot be tempted by evil and he himself tempts no one. But one is tempted by one’s own desire, being lured and enticed by it; then, when that desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin, and that sin, when it is fully grown, gives birth to death” (James 1:13-15 NRSV). Temptation occurs when one is lured and enticed by his or her desire. Same-sex attraction is simply that-attraction to others of the same sex. It is possible to be lured or enticed by this desire to engage in sinful acts, such as lust for or sex with someone who is not our spouse. However, it is also possible to resist such temptation. As such, the desire itself is not sinful; how we respond to the desire is the deciding factor. I know that it disturbs many conservative Christians when Side B Christians take on the label “gay.” There is a lot of baggage that comes with that term in our current church climate. To complicate matters, I am sure that not every Side B Christian uses it in the same way. I am also confident that not every Side B Christian uses it in a way that I would personally approve. But I will say that in most of the cases with which I am familiar, Side B Christians use “gay” to refer to their sexual orientation, which they define as the involuntary physiological response that is triggered by others of the same-sex. No one I know gives himself or herself a pass on lust (or what Dr. Yuan might call sinful “desires”). Because of the baggage associated with “identifying” as gay, I tend to describe myself as a celibate man who experiences same-sex attraction. Part of that decision is because I simply do not identify with parts of what it means to “be gay.” But the other part of that is because I know that there is so much confusion and pushback. Much of that is unnecessary, in my opinion. So, is it all just a matter of differing semantics? No. It’s not. There are Side B Christians who believe and say things that I do not believe and say. I even concede that some of their beliefs and statements contribute to the confusion over this, leading to misrepresentations in interviews such as this one. But I am confident that there are plenty of Side B Christians who have already addressed many of these objections and misconceptions. Where is their voice on channels like this? Alisa, in an interview with Capturing Christianity, which I LOVED by the way, you said repeatedly that you are a “truth person.” I believe that. I challenge you to dig deeper. You will find those in the Side B camp who more or less fit Dr. Yuan’s description, but you will also find others who simply do not.

[@zacdredge3859]

I appreciate the time you took to respond and clarify some of this but I'm not sure what your describing really fits Side B as most would view it(of course groups like this are too complex to properly summarise but generalisation is meant to simplify by it's very nature and it seems like that's what Dr. Yuan is doing, though he does say multiple times there is a range of perspective). At 18:51it sounds very much like he acknowledges the distinction made in James. Though I do feel like emphasis on it being a physiological response etc distracts from the fact we have a sin nature and our physiology is in no way distinct from that. The fall brought death to us, spiritually and physically. Moreover though, I don't think the goal should be to pick Side A or Side B, or to argue the nuance of either, but to focus on Side C; the C being my cheesy way of bringing Christ to the center. This sounds to be what yourself and Yuan agree on. Serve God not man. In saying that his concerns about Side B seem very sensible(and maybe Side A has it's problems too, I dunno, I'm for Side C, haha); if there are large communal groups forming around this that's not how we're called to do church. The early church was all about local groups of different ages, race, culture etc gathering together and prayerfully growing as disciples together, not groups gathering based on shared temptations which sounds remarkably foolish. It's quite different then something like AA because the alcoholics aren't meeting in a pub. The problem with meeting as a group of SSA Christians is that the temptation in question can't be taken out of the room where people themselves are obviously conscious of this being one of the few places where they are surrounded by people that they might have a potential relationship with. If you're seeking real accountability I wonder if it might be sensible to team up with someone who's opposite sex but with same-sex attraction, or even some of us heterosexual types that are struggling with freedom from pornography(which is a whole lot of straight, weak Christians as I'm sure would be no surprise to anyone). Maybe that's not what you're advocating for but if so I'm really not sure why you're associating as Team B in the first place. Either way Team C would love to have you and it sounds very much like you're already diligently following Jesus so maybe I'm confused where the disagreement lies.

[@gregorymcelyea877]

@@zacdredge3859 Hi! I was pleasantly surprised to see that I had a response! Thank YOU for taking the time. Before responding to your comments, I decided it would be good to go back over what Dr. Yuan said. The more I digest it, the more I am convinced it really is a mixed bag of both representative and misrepresentative comments. I cannot speak to his intentions. It might be that he has no awareness that he sometimes misrepresents or broad-brushes the Side B community. The fact remains that his entire interview took a definitive tone about what Side B Christianity is and why we should all reject it. As such, it was his burden to learn whether there might be notable exceptions to what he was describing. It was also his duty, ethically, to mention those as qualifications or exceptions to his general message. Honestly, I think that's my primary concern with his approach. I would probably agree with much of his assessment if he had simply presented it as an example of where Side B Christianity can go wrong and has gone wrong. After all, I already knew this. I would like to make two, broad responses. I ask that you hang in there with me. My hope is that my critique will become clearer by the end. (KZbin is requiring me to split my post into multiple, smaller posts. See below.)

[@gregorymcelyea877]

@@zacdredge3859 I. SPIRITUAL FRIENDSHIP The first thing I want to address is Dr. Yuan's criticism of spiritual friendships. I chose this because it provides a clear example of the misrepresentation I mentioned. For my dissertation research, I read Aelred of Rievaulx's work called, On Spiritual Friendship. Yes, it is true that the context of his treatise was the Cistercian monastic life. What he wrote, however, was a thorough treatment of Christian friendship in general. But listen again to how Dr. Yuan criticized Wesley Hill's concept of spiritual friendship: "Spiritual friendship is from this concept from [an] eleventh century monk. You know, when you're a monk, you're living by yourself. You know, you're not with people. So he [Aelred] believed that monks needed to form what he called in Latin spiritual friendship. So that, I think, it taking it a little bit out of context. We're no longer monks that are hermits that are isolated from the world. We are in the world. And, essentially, a spiritual friendship is a life-long covenanted relationship between two people of the same sex. Sounds innocuous, right? But if you think about it, it's essentially marriage without the sex. It's same-sex marriage without the sex. It's a relationship between two people that they make, and I actually know people who have made these life-long covenants. It's a ceremony of two men or two women, and they covenant together, they live together, they own property together. From any other situation [or perspective], it's a same-sex marriage." Virtually everything that Dr. Yuan said misrepresented spiritual friendship. No, not all monks live by themselves. Most Cistercian monks live in community with one another. In fact, it is more of the exception than the rule, it seems, for monastic orders to require their monks to live truly as hermits (i.e., in seclusion). An example of this kind of monastic order would be the Carthusians, but the Cistercians' way of life balances solitude and community. There is a Cistercian monastery only a couple hours from where I live. Barring COVID-related quarantining, they regularly welcome outsiders. They even have a program through which you or I can become "lay Cistercians," which is a way for us to live "in the world" (as Dr. Yuan put it) while also following many of the tenants of the order. Does any of this sound like living as hermits? Aelred's treatise was actually written to encourage the monks who were prone to isolating THEMSELVES. Moreover, the principles of spiritual friendship contained within its pages were intentionally broad. What he sought to accomplish was twofold: (1) to establish the nature of spiritual friendship; (2) then, to apply that to his context. It is primarily Aelred's first objective with which Wesley Hill concerns himself. Take a look at how Dr. Hill describes his engagement with Aelred: "Reading Aelred of Rievaulx’s little treatise On Spiritual Friendship as an undergraduate was a life-changing experience for me. Aelred, a 12th-century Cistercian abbot, insists that we need to test our beliefs about friendship with Scripture. The treatise is a series of dialogues in which three monks join Aelred to examine their ideas about friendship in light of their Christian faith. One of Aelred’s insights made a big impact on me. He points out that friendship is based on shared goals, and distinguishes between different kinds of friendship: carnal friendship, based on shared pursuit of pleasure; worldly friendship, based on mutual advantage; and spiritual friendship, grounded in shared discipleship. The dialogues helped me to see that although Christian discipleship is costly, it need not be lonely. Our culture has become very fixated on sex, but sex and romance are not the same as love. Nor is Christian love the same as the kind of casual friendship that is common in our culture… Aelred insists that, contrary to the transitory nature of so many contemporary friendships, a friend in Christ 'loves always' (Proverbs 17:17). He and the other monks discuss how to select and cultivate lasting and Christ-centered friendships." (This was in his "Spiritual Friendship in 300 Words" post.) It honestly disturbs me that what Dr. Yuan took from Dr. Hill’s views was that spiritual friendship is like "same-sex marriage without the sex." Are there examples of same-sex friendships within the Side B community that any of us could point to as errant in some way? Of course. But to hold them out as representatives of what Dr. Hill meant by spiritual friendship is simply not fair or accurate. In fact, the spiritual friendship website has already addressed these kinds of misrepresentations by further clarifying what spiritual friendship is and is not.

[@gregorymcelyea877]

@@zacdredge3859 II. YOUR RESPONSE Now I would love to engage some with your comments. I will do this is by quoting portions of your response. Then, I will respond to each in turn. A. "Though I do feel like emphasis on it being a physiological response etc distracts from the fact we have a sin nature and our physiology is in no way distinct from that. The fall brought death to us, spiritually and physically." Although I did not mention this before, I too am open to the idea that even our physiology has suffered from the Fall. In fact, a prominent proponent of Side B Christianity, Pieter Valk, recently wrote the following in which he effectively agreed with your point: "James 1:13 teaches us that God does not tempt his children. The brokennesses in our lives that lead to temptation are not part of God’s design. Then Romans 1:26-27 speaks specifically to same-sex attractions. These verses in Romans don’t just point out the sinful nature of same-sex sexual activity. Paul goes further to suggest that same-sex sexual desires themselves are not what God intended-the desires are broken. We are all broken, and none of us displays sexuality in the exact way God first intended; we are all corrupted at a genetic level, and we all grow up in this broken world." (This was in his "Does the Holy Spirit Promise Healing?" post.) I find this ironic, considering that Pieter is one of the stronger proponents for adding the word “gay” to the list of acceptable labels for Side B Christians. If we were taking Dr. Yuan’s words about Side B Christians seriously, we might expect Pieter to be more accommodating of Side A views. Instead, what I find is that Pieter routinely resists Side A theology and practice. Making a statement such as the one I quoted above is certainly an example of this. And, his statement provides clear evidence of exactly the opposite of Dr. Yuan’s claim that Side B Christians need to do more to mortify our desires. I simply have never heard a Side B friend or leader speak about our desires in a way that give us a pass on lusting for or fantasizing about others of the same sex. And, I DO find it helpful to emphasize desire as an involuntary physiological response. The primary reason is to point out that it is not willful. Therefore, it is literally beyond our capacity to change. As we continue to submit to the process of sanctification, it might be that temptations of this sort decrease over time. Or, it might be they they do not decrease. In either case, I agree with what Dr. Yuan said: “Change is not the absence of temptations, but change is the spirit-wrought ability to be holy even in the midst of temptations.” B. "Moreover though, I don't think the goal should be to pick Side A or Side B, or to argue the nuance of either, but to focus on Side C; the C being my cheesy way of bringing Christ to the center. This sounds to be what yourself and Yuan agree on. Serve God not man." Interestingly, I did not initially seek out the Side B group to "be a part of something." I was more focused then on clarifying what I am not. I am not Side A. I am not Side X. In fact, last year was the first time I attended the Revoice Conference (virtually). In a certain sense, it was a mixed bag as well. There were many things that I thought were incredibly helpful. There were other things that, in my opinion, were not. I say all this to say that Side B is the label that best fits me. It does not mean that I agree with everything that every Side B Christian or even every Side B leader says. In fact, there are times when I disagree on pretty significant issues. At the end of the day, I know that neither the Side A community nor the Side X community are home for me. If down the road there emerges some new subgroup of Side B Christians (or even some other group altogether) that feels more like home, I’m sure I will gravitate toward it. C. "If there are large communal groups forming around this that's not how we're called to do church. The early church was all about local groups of different ages, race, culture etc gathering together and prayerfully growing as disciples together..." This relates to the last one. There is a real sense in which I agree with you here. I have often made similar comments to church leaders and to others. Still, I notice that people have their own denominations, their own theological orientations, etc. It seems that this picking a group thing is largely unavoidable in the church world. Even the “non-denominational” type chooses to be a part of the group that is, well, not denominational. This does not mean that we cannot “fellowship” across groups, though. For many of us, the reason we seek the added layer of community with other Side B Christians is because we've been run off or otherwise wounded by the local church or by parachurch ministries who target us. When I moved to Kentucky, it was very important to me to know whether the local churches that I was visiting would mistreat me once they learned that I was "SSA." It helped early on to identify a few other Side B Christians here in Kentucky so that I could experience community with them while searching for a new church home and so that I could call upon them for comfort and encouragement in the event that I encountered a local church that was hostile or at least ambivalent to me. D. "The problem with meeting as a group of SSA Christians is that the temptation in question can't be taken out of the room where people themselves are obviously conscious of this being one of the few places where they are surrounded by people that they might have a potential relationship with." This was actually mentioned during the last Revoice Conference. It's counterproductive when two Side B Christians who meet at Revoice end up forming a Side A relationship! One of the speakers/leaders addressed this concern. It absolutely does happen. But on what scale? My best guess is that it's rarer than you think. At any rate, I think we should take care to avoid importing legalism from "purity culture." One of the hallmarks of Side B Christianity is that we believe there is much more to intimacy, friendship, and community than sex or romance. Therefore, it seems to me that the Side B Christians I know are the very ones to whom the Church should be looking for guidance on how to navigate friendships or group dynamics when attraction is "in the room." Side B Christians remind us that our brothers and our sisters in Christ are not stumbling blocks waiting to happen. No, they are our brothers and sisters. Do we need accountability structures? Yes. But these structures should be informed by the recognition that we are not MERELY sexual beings and that we are not animals. As Christians, we are redeemed and sanctified. Do we really believe that? I do recognize that everyone is at a different place in the sanctification process. Open communication with others is the key. Knowing where to go and where not to go should come from discernment in relationship to others who are holy, trustworthy, and wise. And I think Side B Christians are by and large paving the way in this respect. Also, I'll be candid here. I wonder if one of the primary reasons why some straight Christians have such a hard time believing that it’s safe to put a bunch of SSA Christians in a room together is because they can't imagine resisting the temptation if they were in our shoes. If so, why is that? Is it because, on average, more straight people in the Church commit sexual immorality than Side B people do? I know all kinds of promiscuous straight Christians but effectively no promiscuous Side B Christians. It’' something worth exploring on a large scale. At any rate, it is telling when some churches give Johnny and Susie from the youth group a pass for having pre-marital sex but run Billy out of the youth group for simply liking boys. Help us Jesus! E. "If you're seeking real accountability I wonder if it might be sensible to team up with someone who's opposite sex but with same-sex attraction" My closest Side B friend is a woman who is attracted to women. We are an accountability to each other. Still, I do not think it is necessarily impossible to have a Side B man as an accountability partner. . . . . . . . To wrap this up, I will say that I definitely promote being a on "Team C," to borrow your term. It is my first priority and my primary identity-the identity to which all others must align and/or submit. For now, though, I continue to find community among other Side B Christians because, frankly, it is not safe for celibate SSA Christians everywhere.

[@zacdredge3859]

@@gregorymcelyea877 A few things in response. I put SSA to distinguish tendency from behaviour, I don't mind if you use 'gay' or not, just that there are worldly people that will take that as the entire lifestyle/ behaviourly side included. I don't really care. I thought you might actually be disputing the connection between physiology and sinful temptation. Sometimes when people use scientific language in this context it can be used to diminish the spiritual reality, but glad I'm mistaken. Perhaps most importantly at some point I got the terms confused in my head(to be fair I hadn't heard Team A and B and this was an hour long coversation, haha). So Dr Yuan is kind of saying Side A are overly puritan and Side B are perhaps too compromising. You obviously disagree with the blanket nature of the critique of the second, which I guess he focuses on because most of us have long accepted that psychological conditioning is not the answer so disputing Side A is kind of played out. I found your comparison to youth groups kind of amusing. I'd actually agree with the idea we shouldn't push hormonal teens at each other and this seems like a meme to me at this point. The reason I used AA for comparison is because people with proclivity for drinking to excess typically commit to a life of sobriety; they won't have 'one drink' the way another Christian might and so it really is a commitment to a prolonged process of sanctification. But it's possibly a flawed analogy in terms of alcohol addiction being formed from actually engaging the behaviour, someone can be gay without ever having acted on it. As for myself, I'm not sure if it's at all helpful to clarify that I'm a celibate straight person, though sadly was exposed to pornography at a fairly young age and can't pretend I'm free of my own problems after however many years now. I tried a couple programs with varying success but still a recovering addict(I try to remember this because it can be easy to downplay it or go the other extreme). So this really isn't about looking at the spec in your eye, I was actually curious about all this because I know I have my own perversions too and wondered what Dr Yuan's approach was. Maybe I *am* a bit of a puritan because of own low self control but I also remember that we are told to flee temptation and this is demonstrated well by Joseph who literally runs out the door when tempted by Potiphar's wife. I'm glad you have some good accountability. In terms of how it affects others(same sex friendships between gay Christians) I wonder if it's a bit like a married person having opposite sex friends. Like, sure, you're not an adulterer by being friends with someone, but there's also certain situations you would want to avoid. There's also 'emotional cheating' as a concern and this may be similar to what Dr Yuan is criticising about having friendships that aren't ostensibly romantic but could become so at any point. I don't really know what it's like where you live. I imagine Kentucky is mostly conservative from the little I've heard. I'm Australian and don't think my area would be quite the same as there but you'd probably have some negative experiences anywhere I guess. 😬

[@dlparnell1144]

Praying for my nieces and nephew love hearing these success stories!

[@ebriggs3498]

We don’t introduces ourselves as “lying Christians” or “stealing Christians”, so why say “gay Christians”? It’s obvious that the announced SIN is more important to them than the Savior.

[@itsspiritual8645]

I'm heterosexual, they would have to live a life of abstinence, just like me.

[@paulan7218]

exactly sex is for marriage if someone is not married( by Gods definition of marriage)they should abstain whether heterosexual or gay

[@tonyadieker4556]

This guy knows being LGBT is not a sin. He's lying to on purpose by choice and now it's time for his judgement. Remember, it was his choice. I am Elijah of Malachi 4:5-6. Chris is female in gendet by the way. He also teaches the moneyary tithing lie to intentionally steal from people and sells books using the gospel even though he knows it is evil.

[@itsspiritual8645]

We all have issues but the solution is the same, a renewing of the mind through Jesus Christ. If you don't believe in God you'll have to find something else.

[@zuffin1864]

I am from Louisville, I wish you could have had a better departure from my hometown! But it seems it was all part of God's plan for you. Thank you for your story Christopher ❤

[@tonyadieker4556]

This guy knows being LGBT is not a sin. He's lying to on purpose by choice and now it's time for his judgement. Remember, it was his choice. I am Elijah of Malachi 4:5-6. Chris is female in gendet by the way. He also teaches the moneyary tithing lie to intentionally steal from people and sells books using the gospel even though he knows it is evil.

[@StevieReed265]

I would like to talk to you please ma’am. I also went through a very dark period and in a lot of ways am still there. I do what I know to do, study/pray and I find myself asking ”God are You there.”I want to know how you made it through your dark period and came out the other side with your faith intact. I just keep telling myself that if God put me in His hand He won’t let me go. And I keep leaning on that. But I need help.

[@brando3342]

Can you be a “gay Christian”, no. Can you be a Christian struggling with sin? I would ask where the Christian is that isn’t struggling with sin in some way.

[@tonyadieker4556]

This guy knows being LGBT is not a sin. He's lying to on purpose by choice and now it's time for his judgement. Remember, it was his choice. I am Elijah of Malachi 4:5-6. Chris is female in gendet by the way. He also teaches the moneyary tithing lie to intentionally steal from people and sells books using the gospel even though he knows it is evil.

[@FionaKumariCampbell]

Some people in religious orders slip into what’s called Particular Friendships, viewed as possessive and destructive

[@karricompton]

Walk by the Spirit and you will not fulfill the desires of the flesh. He gives us the power over all kinds of sin, but we have to cooperate and walk with Him day by day, hour by hour.

[@joehouston2833]

Sin is sin..

[@adamodeo9320]

Leonardo da Vinci Tchaikovsky (most played Christmas music) and Alan Turing who saved millions of people and saved the world from the most hateful group of people ever walked on earth (whose roots can be traced to the Spanish inquisition) were all gay - if God did not find them agreeable - he would not have blessed them with gifts that benefited the world so greatly.

[@mightymouse2024]

Your relationship with God is what He is most interested in. He will deal with ALL your issues, ALL our sins as opportunity to deepen that relationship arises. Repentance and submission are foundational to that relationship as we continually screw up but He never does. God's love is real and not conditional, whatever your issues may be. If we, however, parade and promote our sins on placards and parades, then that is a different matter:-That is rebellion, saying I'm right but God's word is wrong. God's word says 'rebellion is like unto witchcraft'. That is non-negotiable.

[@johnthelemann-williams1790]

So informative! And I really like how he speaks to Christians about what it means to follow Christ.

[@marielundstrom7694]

I am wondering about your thoughts concerning G12?

[@JackMarino163]

I agree that the problem is sin, and the cure is Jesus, I also think it’s beneficial to understand the neurological phenomenon that give rise to SSA and the badly drawn conclusion that it SSA = Gay. Our brains draw problematic conclusions all the time from limited information with the goal of essentially keeping us alive. But it does take the Holy Spirit to break us from those neurological processes, and understand what’s really going on. When I teach my clients things about the brain, it helps them understand that they’ve been riding on unchosen misunderstanding throughout their lives, and they find it easier to hijack their own thought processes and make different choices. This could be beneficial in the day-to-day life, when choosing to live out our faith rather than succumb to temptation.

[@JackMarino163]

@D-Bunker-zv1bj We’re going to have to disagree here. I accept that this isn’t a popular conclusion, mostly because it requires those of us who believe it to live differently than our feelings dictate. It’s true for everyone, no matter what the sin pattern.

[@judysetran9198]

Am I mistaken when we think abhorrent thoughts we are just as guilty as actual physically commiting the sin?

[@elmerfudd1883]

Ezekiel 36:26 A NEW heart will I give you, and NEW Spirit will I put within you; I will TAKE AWAY the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will GIVE you a heart of flesh. 27) And I will put MY spirit within YOU, and cause you to walk in my statutes . . .