A Theological Review of That All Shall be Saved with Chris Green & Brad Jersak | Episode 35

[@conantheseptuagenarian3824]

the reason people say things like, "if we're all saved why does it matter?" is because of doctrines like penal substitutionary atonement. they've been taught to frame their entire christian perspective through the lens of that bloody economy such that they don't think of Jesus as someone they commune with to have life and to enjoy, but someone they need in order to keep from being killed by God for disobedience. penal substitution reduces christ to a means of avoiding punishment rather than an end in Himself.

[@joshuaphilip7601]

Well said.

[@koffeeblack5717]

Amen!

[@gfujigo]

This sounds good, but it doesn’t seem to be right. This is my question: if all are saved, then what was the cross about? Why did Jesus die on the cross then? What exactly is salvation through Christ? Salvation from what? Universalism seems to make sense but there are things I am not sure about in it. Particularly, how is it Biblical.

[@conantheseptuagenarian3824]

@@gfujigo i don't know that i meant that exactly, but i see how it reads that way. my point was more that salvation should be more christocentric and focused on sanctification in this life, such that one actually has a life in christ as opposed to using christ as a means to an eternal end alone.

[@gfujigo]

@@conantheseptuagenarian3824 I see. So, the focus should be on a relationship with Christ and knowing Christ and seeing salvation as an opportunity for deeper relationship with Christ and not simply or mainly the avoidance of hell. Would that be a fair summation?

[@Jordan-hz1wr]

Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess, is not a threat. It’s a promise.

[@englandshope689]

yes....sadly 'infernalists' use it as a threat

[@mrreyes5004]

@@englandshope689 Indeed. They say it like a threat, when really it's talking about one of the greatest events literally _ever_ that I sorely hope I can have the immeasurable honor to participate in.

[@Jordan-hz1wr]

​@Spartan 300 Philippians 2:9 For which reason God also exalted him on high and graced him with the name that is above every name, 10 So that at the name of Jesus every knee-of beings heavenly and earthly and subterranean-should bend, 11 And every tongue gladly confess that Jesus the Anointed is Lord, for the glory of God the Father. The New Testament (pp. 392-393). Yale University Press. Kindle Edition. Please enlighten me on what the rest of the verse supposedly says, and in which context it's supposedly in.

[@Jordan-hz1wr]

@Spartan 300 Good thing Jesus didn't come to start Christianity.

[@JoeySehn]

@Spartan 300 *insert the thousands of verses about Christ coming to save the world and have mercy on all people here*

[@lukemerrick8517]

I often feel like a secret heretic. You guys give me hope that these ideas are worth sharing.

[@ronaldadams8982]

JOIN THE CLUB LOL

[@youngpilgrim5]

Same here.

[@timproffit7861]

Your in good company Luke.

[@lorettacatania]

I'm with ya

[@bostonsboy6084]

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but having itching ears, they shall heap to themselves teachers in accordance with their own lusts.. -----2 tim 4.3 If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that accords with godliness, Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep. I know that after my departure fierce wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; Bently hart is a heretic and a wolf, so if you follow him, your feeling is right.....you are also a hertic. Hart is providing false comfort to the unrepentant sinner and he will answer for that. he is preventing people from coming to jeuss so to have thier sin washed away and escape the wrath of god to come. ---

[@ElasticGiraffe]

I enjoyed the discussion. I'm a convert to Orthodoxy from a Charismatic Evangelical background. I became convinced of the truth of universal reconciliation as a Protestant, in part due to George MacDonald's Unspoken Sermons and the homilies of St Isaac of Nineveh, but Hart's ontological arguments really hit it out of the park. (I believe he'd appreciate the baseball metaphor.)

[@gisealdunn8]

Just listening to this now and your last question is addressing my exact problem. My get it in my head, but can't get it down into my heart because again and again I come against scriptures that seem to say sooo clearly the exact opposite of what I want to believe, even hearing it from Jesus and the patristic fathers, especially Chrysostom. I continue to feel lost and confused...but still praying and searching.

[@broderickwallis25]

Hey there... Look, the fact that there is not one faith that meets the mark then it's fair to think God is NOT going to destroy 90% of the population... Cast to the outer darkness, must've run out of fuel... To fail a 70yrs out of eternity test to be destroyed... UniSal solves all the riddles. Love ones enemy? Pretty hard when your Father is going to burn them forever... Not so, knowing they will be going to the wood shed when Dad gets home...

[@lc2077]

Even though I currently subscribe to annihilationism, I’m really starting to understand how universalism with the purification of hell fire is a really very interesting concept and possibly actually brings the most justice out of all options. Thank you so much for this very interesting conversation!

[@lc2077]

Wow just getting to the end now, so so many very powerful arguments presented here! I have this book, but haven’t read it yet, I think it’s time now!

[@lc2077]

BOW 66 I’ve already wholeheartedly embraced universalism now :))) the KZbin channel the victory of Christ really helped me. It’s wonderful!

[@lc2077]

BOW 66 yes I did :) his work made it really really obvious!

[@lc2077]

Spartan 300 as you provided no evidence to your claims, I won’t either. Christian Universalism from every single angle possible is the only reasonable loving peaceful and joyous conclusion a person can come to. If you are unable to see this and delve deeply into scripture then I honestly feel very sad for you. I can’t even begin to imagine the traumas you must have had to go to to blunt your conscience in this way. I pray God will open your eyes, ears and hardened heart. God bless you very much 💜🔥🙏

[@lc2077]

Spartan 300 sorry you’ve utterly lost me. I honestly don’t understand what you are trying to say. If you could be a little clearer for me that would be great. I don’t sense any gentleness or respect ever from those that believe in ECT.

[@stevenfrasier5718]

What a theologically brilliant podcast! Chris Green & Brad Jersak are spectacular in this video. Thank you Mr. Martin for your efforts and excellent moderation. ~Steven of Montreal

[@stevenfrasier5718]

@Spartan 300 Actually "Ultimate Reconciliation" can be proven in the Scripture, or in the Bible, but I suspect you don't know the difference, Mr. 300.

[@stevenfrasier5718]

@Spartan 300 You're a slave to religion, poor fellow. Contention is all you know if anyone thinks differently. And remember, you were BLOCKED from Melissa's channel. I'm still there. It's not about "challenge"--stop engaging in hostility, and at least try to learn what the other views are. I'm not out to hurt you, so why are you behaving in a less than Christ-like manner? Why the persistent animosity? Melissa and I see the LOVE. All you keep seeing is Condemnation. I know that both you and I are saved. ~Steven of Montreal

[@stevenfrasier5718]

@Spartan 300 Yes brother, I do. I also believe that God will use punishment to correct the wicked. Those who are in positions of authority and abuse the powers of that position will be punished. Slavers will be punished. Those responsible for the deaths and injuries of those who protested for peace will be punished. Pedophiles and war criminals will be punished. God is Almighty and therefore capable of bringing into existence salvageable souls. Some punishments will be much more intense than others--but even the worst will be SORRY for the evil they have done. Many people of foreign lands are born into entirely different religions. Can you look a sweet little baby in the eyes, born in Iraq, and say to yourself that he or she will end up being in agony for eternity? Can either you, or I, not see that as babies, we were not given the choice of what country to be born into? God has a fail-safe plan set in motion, even BEFORE He created Adam. So, Spartan 300, I love you as my brother in Christ, even though I can be a smart-ass sometimes. Here's a word of prophecy from the Holy Spirit in me: We will someday break bread together. ~Steven of Montreal

[@stevenfrasier5718]

@Spartan 300 Bienvenue, mon frère en Christ. The English word "hell" was used by translators in the place of the Koine Greek word "Hades", which simply means "grave". In Ancient Greek Mythology, there is a mythological place called Hades, where the dead go in a sort of afterlife. Pagan beliefs mixed into our Faith system by way of the Roman Empire, which was Greco-Roman in their beliefs. Jesus spoke of Gehenna, the city dump, in a metaphorical way, yet still, translators used the word "hell" in the earlier translations, but back then, folks spoke "Olde English" and they would "cover their potatoes in hell", the word hell meant "to cover over", which is the same as "bury the dead". However, the mythological "Hades" made an impact on Christian Theology, the first 500 years of which, had a metaphorical comprehension. As it stands now, for the remaining past 1500 years, hellfire doctrine was used to scare people, not only into congregational attendance, but into political control as well. I've been a believer since childhood and I'm 54 now. I learned about these things only since my 40s. ~S

[@davidwilliams504]

One thought I could add to the final comments (concerning the two parables) is what Christ says at the start of the parable of the lost sheep. His opening words are "What man of you" (i.e. would not do this)? This ties in nicely with the comments made about the bland (or fearful) acceptance of what others say about God in support of traditional eschatological teaching. Here, I believe, Christ is not only permitting us, but positively encouraging us, to employ our own God-given conscience - not to mention, common sense! - on these matters. He then confirms our intuition with the exquisitely simple, yet profound, story of the Good Shepherd leaving the "found" flock to look for the single "lost" sheep. Moreover he will continue (to look) "until he finds it"! This surely is a firm foundation on which to base any search of the Scriptures (and our hearts) "to see if these thing be so." Thank you gentlemen...a very enjoyable discussion.

[@MoreArgentMoreDawn]

Chris is just one of my favorite people in the world. Jonathan we met once at a conference in Houston where both you and Chris spoke. Thank you for introducing me to Dr. Jersak through this video, I will have to add him to my list of "must read" theologians.

[@Jordan-hz1wr]

To Chris's point, the fact is that the scriptures were indeed written in a certain time, within a certain context. I would love to see Hart write a book on how we all can get at that context and understand it better. I'm sure that could be an entire college course all on it's own, but something I would love to see Hart tackle!

[@avisatkins5438]

Amen

[@sebastianmelmoth685]

Most "Christians" loathe DB Hart, as he removes from them the prejudices and petty hatreds they cling to.

[@payt01]

@Spartan 300 Ah yes because God can only love someone if that person loves God back. If not, then all love flies out of the window and Gods Justice kicks into action, which means you may now rot in hell forever. lol. What a psychopath!

[@bostonsboy6084]

@@itisnow why is the blood of jesus on the mercy seat in heaven. the blood covers us from the wrath of justice. the mercy seat points to justice , anf justice points to the mercy seat. - since you deny gods justice, what is the purpose of the mercy seat anf the need for the blood of jesus, which we will be singing about forever and ever

[@bostonsboy6084]

@Spartan 300 the mercy seat, the blood of jesus makes it very clear that god is a god of justice . why the need for a mercy seat???? and the blood of jeus on the mercy seat?? it amazes me how people can cut out 90% of clear revelation for mans NEW AGE TEACHING ,HIPPIE JESUS.

[@bostonsboy6084]

@Spartan 300 dude, i think i posted my response to the wrong person....there were people on this post saying that god will not execute justice....so i pointed out why do we have the need for the blood of jesus and the mercy seat-- if you deny a god of justice , how does the mercy seat and the blood fit into your theological frame work.... its very clear the cross is about gods justice and holiness been met in christ so we can be reconciled. ---hart and his followers are apostates and heretics . fullstop. last days itching ears crowd..... so as i said, my response was not to you but to the guy/girl who was a universalist responding with no scripture.

[@bostonsboy6084]

@Spartan 300i was responding to laros -

[@MrNobletimothy13]

Really digging this convo, halfway im reminded of how in CS Lewis's Chronicles of Narnia, The Voyage of the Dawn Treader. Aslan takes his sharp claws tears away the Dragon skin that is deeply embedded into Eustace. It was painful to endure this saving work of Aslan but incredibly redemptive.

[@koffeeblack5717]

Holy hell I never thought of the meaning until your comment. Powerful imagery.

[@DavidinMiami]

In lieu of "universalist," perhaps we could consistently employ "reconciliationist" or "ultimate reconciliationist." It automatically leans toward the universalistic scope of salvation, while conveying that it is God's providential will, not ours, which leads humanity back to the God who made men, saves men, and restores them via grace--unmerited favor; it is accomplished ONLY through the mercy displayed in the redemptive work of Christ.

[@DavidinMiami]

@Spartan 300 , ah, but it IS very Scriptural; it's all over the Bible. And guess what? many, if not most, believers in the first 5 centuries of Christianity believed this doctrine. . . kzbin.info/www/bejne/eZ_XgJSjZ8SCr7M

[@DavidinMiami]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/pJqafHxmh9d2p6c

[@DavidinMiami]

@Spartan 300 , but I DID challenge you with Scripture-that's what is shown in those videos. Now, keep in mind that I am not referring to some New-Age or pagan, anything-goes sort of universalism, where all religions take you to God and heaven; I am referring to a reconcilation that will be accomplished in Christ, through his merits alone. . .Alright, then, since you asked for Scriptural proofs, I will select a few of the MANY Scriptures that support Apokatastasis (Greek word used in Scripture which means reconciliation) [my emphasis in capital letters]. John 12:32 “ '...And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL people to myself.' ” [not just some people] 1 Corinthians 15:28 "When ALL things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in ALL." Ephesians 1:9-10 "…making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ 10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite ALL things in him, things in heaven and things on earth." Phillippians 2:9-11 "Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus EVERY knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and EVERY tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, TO THE GLORY OF GOD THE FATHER." [I ask you: How can God the Father be glorified by forced subjection? No, all will eventually recognize and receive his love, in the fulness of times, after all the judgments are completed (which are eonian, not endless or everlasting. How do we know that? Because the Greek word used in the New Testament is "aionios," which refers to a limited duration, as opposed to an eternal damnation). Colossians 1:16, 19-20 16 "For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-ALL THINGS WERE CREATED THROUGH HIM AND FOR HIM. 19 For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself ALL THINGS, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross." 1 Timothy 2:4 "This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who DESIRES ALL PEOPLE TO BE SAVED and to come to the knowledge of the truth." 1 Timothy 4:9-11 "The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance. 10 For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living GOD, WHO IS THE SAVIOR OF ALL PEOPLE, especially of those who believe." 1 John 4:14 "And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the SAVIOR OF THE WORLD."

[@matrixlone]

@Spartan 300 follow the logic..it requires driven reason. Which can only come from God. All you want is a proof text and that's not how this works.

[@matrixlone]

@Spartan 300 what are you talking about? Jesus said beware of the scribes and phrases. Yet you quoted from a Bible filled with spurious translated words including the churches hell lie as a well as the vast interpolation of protestants

[@Tyler_W]

I'm not Eastern Orthodox, but that story to which Brad referred about St. Siloam that convinced me of this truth. It's really hard to grasp and accept, but it is something I know for certain to be ultimately true.

[@ecstaticallyeverafterwithc5904]

Wow this is GOLD!!! The first conversation on hell that fully makes sense to me ❤️‍🔥

[@thezeitcastwithjonathanmar5465]

oh this makes me so happy to hear!! And while we don't talk about it here, I have also read many death/near death accounts...and yes, this makes much more sense of people's first person experiences, too!

[@timproffit7861]

Amazing guys. Your answering questions that I struggled to silently articulated to myself for fear of jumping on the heresy train of apostacy. Thanks for the show.

[@jasonahdjfhsdfg]

Tim Proffit I’m so fed up of modern “Christianity “ and it’s judgemental attitudes, I find being labelled a “heretic” a small price to pay to be free of it.

[@jasonahdjfhsdfg]

Spartan 300 Protestantism, focus on sin. Hell fire and damnation preaching. Basically making God look to be this evil tyrant. Fed up up if being labelled a sinner because I smoke. Modern “Christianity” is a joke. Funny thing is they’re all so focussed on the end times, but none of them have the discernment to discern what Jesus told us when he said many false prophets will arise and deceive many.

[@jasonahdjfhsdfg]

Spartan 300 I wasn’t referring to you mate. Well if we are truly in end times, then ancient Christianity was completely different. As I said Jesus told us that many false prophets will arise and deceive many. And that’s what’s happened. True Christianity is not preaching from a bible, it’s about a relationship with God. A loving caring relationship, that is unfailing and one where God doesn’t see your sins. True faith in him, faith that he’s got every second of your life planned out. Faith that you won’t die until God says you will die. When I told my pastor this he told me I was preaching prosperity. Jesus was right again when he said “when the son of man returns will he find faith on earth?”. So little true love for humanity and our fellow man. So much judgmental attitudes, so much preaching about the “wicked”, so little true love for God and our fellow man.

[@jasonahdjfhsdfg]

Spartan 300 I truly believe that mystery Babylon is describing modern Christianity. “Come out of her my people”.

[@jasonahdjfhsdfg]

@Spartan 300 I believe it to be the exact opposite. Modern Christianity is more sin focused, than God focused. Modern Christianity places an emphasis on sin, and bible study and religious rituals rather than a true relationship with God. God told me to stop reading the bible and going to church a few months back, and ever since my relationship with him has grown incredibly. The whole of the law is to love God and love your neighbour. Modern Christianity puts an emphasis on what we need to do. The true Gospel is that God loves us all so much (the entire world) that he died for us to be reconciled to him. Modern Christianity is pharisaical in my experience.

[@Bomethius]

Wow. This was a genuinely wonderful experience.

[@77goanywhere]

The discussion around the term "universalism" is interesting. I really admire Robin Parry in his wilingness to stay the course with the term, coupled with his commitment to explaining what HE means by that term. After all, don't most theological positions and the associated terms require careful and detailed explanation?

[@ElasticGiraffe]

That's certainly the case for intellectuals willing to hear a person out, but it's more of a marketing problem at the popular level. Even though universalism is a position consistent with orthodoxy, the universalist "brand" is tainted by its historical association with some serious heterodoxies. Embracing the label can shut down a conversation and lead people to dismiss you as a "liberal" not worth listening to. That's the argument anyway. It's probably more of an issue for clergy who would face a lot of pushback.

[@77goanywhere]

@@ElasticGiraffe I think that in the field of theology there is hardly any term or idea that hasn't been disputed over or condemned by somebody. The problem with the field of theology is some terms defy definition because of their history. Take words like "baptism", "communion", "evangelism" and a hundred more. Are these terms universally agreed on as to what they are or should be? I suggest that there is probably NO theological term that is uncontrovertial, or does not require clarification. So for me, I will just wear the responsibility to explain what I mean by the term "universal reconciliation" and be done with it. We are not "saved" through having a perfect suite of doctrinal theories, but through our experience we have of our union with Christ-Logos. Everything else is simply the blind leading the blind.

[@ecstaticallyeverafterwithc5904]

This description of hell really aligns with so many of the near death experiences I have listened to❤

[@jeanmaloney2454]

I believe in the ultimate salvation of all. Hell and misery exists here on Earth, in this life. To follow Christ wholeheartedly in this life, means you can escape Hell and misery in the here and now. You can receive the promises of Christ now. You won’t have to pass through the fire to get to Heaven. That’s the motivation for following Jesus now... to escape the necessity of having to pass through the fire of purification to reach heaven. Paul clearly teaches this. .

[@DanielLovett]

20:00 I believe the way Hope is used Biblically would be a confident expectation. Definitely more robust than common usage today.

[@YouveHeardItSaid]

I for one needed and totally enjoyed the rhetorical punchiness to overcome the psychological and emotional weight of a lifetime of infernalism.

[@thezeitcastwithjonathanmar5465]

oh Lord--I hear this, LOL!!! A LIFETIME. It affects absolutely everything!!!

[@DefiningReality]

Dang, this was such a good and refreshing interview and book review. Thank you

[@thezeitcastwithjonathanmar5465]

I so appreciate this-thrilled that it spoke to you! One of my favorite conversations ever personally :)

[@helenjarvis7755]

We really enjoyed this discussion. Thanks guys so much.

[@Quidisi]

Brilliant!!! Don't know what else to say - simply brilliant!

[@cturtleSSI]

I loved hearing your commentary about the book, which I just finished reading. But I especially loved meeting the three of you! What wonderful men you are 💚💚💚

[@thewrightoknow]

Hi, I am new to this topic and discussion. I have never shared the gospel with people and saw hell as punishment but a choice. I think of what Dallas Willard says about Hell, is that maybe Hell is the best he could do for someone. Looking forward to listening to these men.

[@thezeitcastwithjonathanmar5465]

Yes, this calls to mind C.S. Lewis’ locked from the inside motif…and I love Dallas. For a deeper dive, I’ve found Brad’s book on hell to be endlessly helpful! (Haha--“endless”)

[@SaintNektarios]

Great discussion. This is the first time I have come across this channel and watched a video. I will definitely be subscribing and checking out more content.

[@dogsdomain8458]

Ed feser says that the soul chooses hell. But if our souls were made in god's image, why should we not think that souls essentially will the good as god does, and so when we die, we shed our habitiations both to vice and to virtue, because habits are accidental properties that are tied with our material bodies (ex. Hard wiring in the brain, muscle memory, physical addiction and dependency to drugs, etc) so in the absence of negative habituations, we eternally will the good.

[@The_Scouts_Code]

You know you're in Pentecostal company when every response to every statement is "wow...".

[@brotherjoeradosti]

"Freed will" may be the solution to "God is not willing that any should perish" (2 Pet 3:9). I have a problem in thinking that someone's "will" will take precedent over God's will.

[@TiffaniRozier]

Fascinating conversation, I would love to get a list of the texts referenced in this conversation for further study. :)

[@mcnallyaar]

Thank you SO MUCH for mentioning Marilynne Robinson!!!!!

[@bluemagic9531]

Ultimate redemption is my new favorite phrase.

[@thezeitcastwithjonathanmar5465]

I know it's so helpful, right?! I just feel like it cuts through a lot.

[@bluemagic9531]

@@thezeitcastwithjonathanmar5465 yes always looking for new ways to communicate an ancient story about God

[@loganj1568]

That was great

[@SojournPsychology]

Excellent and thought provoking

[@TheHumbuckerboy]

" The 'Fire of (God's) love' is effective" !

[@neiloswald2208]

Y'all can say what you want about Hart's "endearing" tone, but watching this (as compared to Hart's interview on @Reason & Theology) lemme say that if Chris had been the author of the book, I'd have bought the book by yesterday! . As he suggested I do hope more 'pastorally'-focused books come out on the topic

[@toddnorquist9082]

Paul Molnar’s 12/30/2021 book- *Freedom, Necessity, and the Knowledge of God: in Conversation with Karl Barth and Thomas F. Torrance*-takes on that DB Hart shall be sure of his arguments.

[@hunivan7672]

Aren't we being lukewarm if we don't teach universal salvation as doctrine and condemn infernalism as a heresy and instead opt to this well... lukewarm solution of live and let live? No offense or anything.

[@racheladkins6060]

Universalism is the only thing that deals with my fears. Fear of FEARS!

[@keith3362]

So it comforts you that Hitler, Mao, and Stalin are in heaven? What about child molesters?

[@racheladkins6060]

Everyone here needs, NEEDS to read The Gospel of Inclusion by Carlton Pearson, especially when God spoke to CARLTON one night about Hell. As God says to Carlton Pearson “We redeemed and reconciled ALL OF HUMANITY AT CALVARY.This is what the cross was and IS ALL ABOUT”

[@lukabarisic7080]

Chris looks and sounds like David Wood's calmer brother.

[@odysseusjak]

Has the interview with Hart been removed? I don't see it in the list anymore.

[@thezeitcastwithjonathanmar5465]

Ooh! We never had this one on video, but should still be in audio feed-are you not finding audio version?

[@thezeitcastwithjonathanmar5465]

Will try to post a link here: open.spotify.com/episode/5T8QzmjHGRE2VsH5PCj7Ee?si=h8G4ZckvQNefHWOwI56r1w

[@odysseusjak]

Thank you! I just *knew* I had watched it but I guess I just listened to it. Thank you.

[@GaryFÓBrien]

“God’s not gonna give up on those people” (who have died without believing) 1:10:55. The following is just from a Wikipedia page I have a screenshot of.. “Author David Burnfield defends the post mortem view that, God continues to evangelise people after they die. cf 1Chron 16:34, Isa 9:2, Mt 12:32, Rom 8:35-39, Eph 4:8-9, 1Pet 3:18-20, 4-6.” There can be no ‘loose ends’ once the ages have run their course.

[@phaturtha216]

God's love doesn't quit and expire just cause we do.

[@mcnallyaar]

"Woe to me if I do not evangelize. I am obligated to do so." (Paraphrasing)

[@racheladkins6060]

I’m a Christian struggling with fear, and anxiety of Hell, Fear and punishment, even though God has a kind side. If it’s not about love what’s the point? I’m a Brit ,so I’m not familiar with American cultural obsession with Hell, even in the slang language, as in the movies!

[@lw97nilslinuswhitewaterweb15]

Not all will. I could be wrong, but even though people may get a second chance in hades, they may still reject it.

[@Aaron-bd9sj]

You guys are great. New subscriber

[@erichgroat838]

"Apokatastasis" might work...

[@peterandjoycevanbreemen600]

❤

[@mcnallyaar]

I like these guys!

[@mcnallyaar]

These guys embody Pathos, Ethos, AND Logos. Good stuff. 100!

[@mcnallyaar]

"We need different language." AGREED! Of course, this is the problem of literally every age.

[@davidwormell6609]

38:00 Brad has succeeded in terrifying me about heaven!

[@tookie36]

So many want to preach the gospel instead of live the gospel. It’s much easier to tell a poor man to belive in Jesus than it is to give him your shirt and shoes.

[@keith3362]

He needs both.

[@robertmichaud8313]

I would really like to receive a link to Chris Green's review of TASBS that you mention in the podcast.

[@BMoore335]

afkimel.wordpress.com/2019/10/09/god-is-heaven-god-is-hell-a-review-of-that-all-shall-be-saved/

[@1991jj]

I watch this probably once a month. Please return to doing this type of video content Jonathan. The church is desperate

[@thezeitcastwithjonathanmar5465]

😭 In all kinds of ways timing wise, and for all kinds of reasons…this feels like a very direct prompting from the Holy Spirit. Thank you-I really am going to do that, and feel what you said very deeply.

[@1991jj]

@@thezeitcastwithjonathanmar5465 I'm glad. Among others, your content was formative in basically saving my faith. A young man living in obscurity all the way down in little New Zealand. I hope and pray your next season of content creating will do the same for others. Blessings.

[@karlasears9985]

Please expand with the difference of moralism and holy? How is it different?

[@MikeBrown-bz1yi]

karla Sears moralism is how we act. Holiness is a gift bestowed on us by God.

[@DianelosGeorgoudis]

Good deeds flow out of holiness out of their own power as it were. It may still be hard but it's unstopable, love simply flows over. In contrast the moralist may or may not do good. And if the moralist acts moved by the fear of punishment or the desire for reward, they are not really doing good.

[@racheladkins6060]

What about the “Harrowing of Hell” from the Eastern Orthodox ancient church.

[@TimonRamstein]

What about people who committed apostasy or the sin of the holy spirit?

[@Mrm1985100]

The only possible options are Annihilationism and Universalism: of the two Annihilationism has way more biblical support. I honestly don't see Universalism in the Bible. I agree that ECT is just horrific.

[@webz3589]

Good review. Though i don't know any (serious) universalist who denies sin or escatalogical judgment or the cross or tge incarnation or ressurrction or any of that. People who do are a minority in the universalist camp. I think you're confusing Christian universalism with pluralism a very common mistake.

[@t.skradde1686]

Wow...a lot of weigth on this conversation ;)

[@AJ-me1dg]

Couldn't help but chuckle when you talked about Lilith. George MacDonald will do that to you.

[@criticaloptimist7961]

See "Ra Material: The Law of One" for insight into how the justice of God works according to his Mercy and human free will toward the salvation for all.

[@carlomir1]

The best title might be “restorationalist”

[@phaturtha216]

Very good. So we've got Restorationism, Damnationism and Annihilationism. A few arcane alternatives: apokatastasist, paliggeneticist, anakainosist. 3 big Bible words for one who believes Salvation of All.

[@ElasticGiraffe]

Well, "restorationism" is already applied to many Protestant or quasi-Protestant sects (e.g., Adventists, Mormons) that emerged in the 19th century, fringe groups that thought "mainstream" Christianity had strayed or lost its purity, and they were getting back to the way the primitive church believed and practiced the faith. So, that might not be the best term.

[@englandshope689]

hmm, sounds like 'communist'.....why not i believe in 'ultimate restoration of all things '?

[@CWVong]

I liked Rohr's Christian non-dualist. But I'm not sure its a term that will catch on.

[@mr.e1220]

I will listen, but doesn't scripture teach that many will not INHERIT the kingdom and destruction of the wicked, second death, etc. Definitely disagree with eternal torment, but destruction of the wicked.

[@englandshope689]

plse research n pray..u'll find Truth....God redeems ALL ultimately tho some will experience loss tho their spirit is saved

[@Kuudere-Kun]

I have argued for making Universal Salvation compatible with the KJV readings. Isaac the Syrian was a Nestorian.

[@johnnyhaigs243]

Isaac the Syrian read the KJV.

[@Kuudere-Kun]

@@johnnyhaigs243 No he didn't, those two lines of my comment are commenting on different parts of the video.

[@johnnyhaigs243]

@@Kuudere-Kun... how can you be a Christian without reading the KJV 1611 AUTHORISED Edition?? He must have read from that.

[@Kuudere-Kun]

@@johnnyhaigs243 I feel like you're making that comment to mock KJV onlier because you think I am one. I'm not.

[@racheladkins6060]

The Roman Catholic Church has a lot to answer a lot for.

[@davidjohnzenocollins]

Y'all could have talked for three hours and i would have enjoyed all of it.

[@racheladkins6060]

I can’t be a secret “heretic” in my church. The Hell thing is troubling to me, here in England Hell is a pagan word from the Viking culture invading into England’s history. Only their HEL was cold.

[@rogersacco4624]

They never deal with babies or children . .and an absurd afterlife for them.

[@bluemagic9531]

18:00👍

[@scsmiles1]

DID GOD REALL SAY?

[@jcasper1535]

how does the song go you have to go thru hell before you get to heaven

[@theologian1456]

God is also righteous and holy. His attributes cannot be separated.

[@exclusivejones]

God’s Eternal Purpose VS God’s Eonian Purpose. The word PURPOSE by itself, hints at something that has limits. If my “purpose” is to fix the broken toilet, then I must get started, do all that’s needed and then finish… my “purpose”. To suggest that God’s “purpose” has no beginning and no end… is to create fog, confusion, and toss out the meanings of words. Eph 3:11 is not talking about “God’s eternal purpose”… but instead, it’s talking about “God’s eonian purpose.” The mistake came when John Wycliffe created the very first English Bible. All he had access to was the Latin translation of the bible. And this Latin version of the bible was from the 3rd century. And… in the 3rd century Latin, the words “eternuam” and “secularum” were synonyms… often used interchangeably. John Wycliffe did not know this. So, when Wycliffe got to the word “secularum” he used the English word “world” (secular = world, get it?) But he had never seen this word “eternuam” before… so he made up a new English word = “eternal”. Thus, we get biblical references to the “end of the world”… and we might never know that we’d also get “the end of the ‘eternaums”… NOTE: IT’S THE SAME WORD synonyms… WORLD, AND ETERNAL… BOTH ARE LIMITED IN SCOPE. In Eph 3:11, Paul is speaking of God’s “EONIAN” purpose. The Greek word is AIONIOUS. (A LONG PERIOD OF TIME, BUT NOT “ENDLESS”) “ETERNAL” is a made up word. It’s a mistake John Wycliffe made. So, now, the great question is, WHAT IS GOD’S EONIAN PURPOSE? Gene Edwards and Witness Lee would have us believe that “God’s eternal purpose” is to have a “church” or “corporate man” that rules and reigns with Christ “eternally”. Not gonna happen. Why? Because Christ himself does not ‘rule and reign eternally”. PROOF: I Cor 15:25. There we see that eventually Christ will ABOLISH all rule… ABOLISH all authority… AND ABOLISH all power… including his own RULE, AUTHORITY, AND POWER… “For he must reign UNTIL” (I Cor 15:25)… Did you see that? Did you see the word UNTIL???? Christ doesn’t reign “for ever and ever” he reigns UNTIL something happens. He reigns UNTIL his 4 enemies are abolished. The first 3 enemies are rulership, authority and power… and the final enemy is DEATH. And when the final enemy (death, the wages of sin,) is abolished, Then God will be all in all. NOTE: as long as God is “NOT” all in all, you’ll need rule, authority, power, and even the wages of sin… but once all that is put away, God becomes “all in all”… not “all in some”… not “some in some”…. Not “some in all”… But ALL IN ALL. The Church has a special but temporary place in God’s purpose. Read more here: acetheologicalco.wordpress.com/2020/02/11/gods-eternal-purpose-vs-gods-eonian-purpose/

[@lornadoone8887]

The GK for “until” in this context does not denote an action that comes to an end, but one that continues. There is a different GK term also translated “until” that has the connotation you infer. God rules forever because His rule is not a worldly Lording it over someone: it is part of Who He is by nature as sovereign.

[@acetheo6864]

@@lornadoone8887 Are you saying that authority, power, rule and death will remain, because "until" does not mean "until" ???

[@philliplow5379]

Blah, blah, blah... Jesus did not come to bring us theology, he came to bring us himself. Receive Him.

[@stephenmartin2409]

"Christian Universalist"

[@mr.unknown1313]

Romans 10:9 For all who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved . Salvation is a choice you choose to accept Jesus in this life or you choose to reject Jesus . The choice is yours everyone has the free will to choose . Again salvation is a choice we all have the free will to accept Gods plan of salvation which is accepting the Lord Jesus Christ . The Bible is clear about it . In Revelation Ch 20 it says all names not found written in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire . The Bible is clear there is a hell and those who reject Jesus will go there . You cannot wish hell away it is a real place !

[@englandshope689]

free will can be limited by circumstance so it only takes u so far....in the bible fire is a cleansing testing purifying agent and the lake o fire is just that and more

[@bostonsboy6084]

we are truly in the end times and the apostles are warning us about [people like hart, rob bell, -the emergent church, the seeker friendly church 2 Peter 2:1-3 ESV / But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.

[@OperationReapSinners777]

JUDGEMENT DAY IS COMING! SINNERS SEEK THE LORD! JESUS SAID BEHOLD I STAND AT THE DOOR AND KNOCK, OPEN THE DOOR OF YOUR HEART! V 2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 2Co 5:11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences. Mar 6:11 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city. Mat 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. Mat 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned. Dan 7:9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire. Dan 7:10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the BOOKS WERE OPENED. Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; AND THE BOOKS WERE OPENED: AND ANOTHER BOOK WAS OPENED, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. Rev 20:15 AND WHOSOEVER WAS NOT FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE WAS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE. 1Pe 4:14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified. 1Pe 4:15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters. 1Pe 4:16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf. 1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 1Pe 4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? 1Pe 4:19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator. 2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. 2Pe 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

[@je4754]

Yes, and then in the book of revelation, those that went through the lake of fire were invited back into the city if they washed their garments clean. Not literal sir but figurative, particularly the passages on the lake of fire. The wages of sin is DEATH, not endless suffering.

[@OperationReapSinners777]

@@je4754 I wish what you said was true but you have no scriptures to support what you said. Please defend your position using Bible verses only? I don't want your own opinion! Let the Bible speak because everything I say is supported by scripture! There is a third type of death in scripture that is different from spiritual death, and physical death we experience in this life. Spiritual death is when a Christian turns back to his old sinful ways, and follows Jesus Christ no more. Physical dead is when we die and go to our grave. The second death this is known as eternal death, that's after the judgment of God. In the Book of Revelation we read. V The one who has an ear, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. The one who overcomes will not be hurt at all by the second death (Revelation 2:11). Unless spiritual death is reversed in this life, the result will be eternal death. This is unending separation between God and all who reject Him. Believers are not affected by the second death. V Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years (Revelation 20:6). The final judgment, or the lake of fire, is the time when the second death occurs. V Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death (Revelation 20:14). The second death is reserved for unbelievers. Those who experience this death are all those whose names are not found written in the Book of Life. V But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars - their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death (Revelation 21:8). Eternal death, or the second death, is the ultimate form of separation. If a person dies in a state of spiritual death, they enter eternity separated from God. This is the second death. Once a person has experienced the "second death" there is no hope for them, it is irreversible. Physical death is the separation of the body from the spirit. Spiritual death, the way all of us are born, is the spiritual separation of each of us from God. Eternal death, or the second death, is the eternal separation of a person from God. There is no escape from the second death. There is no third resurrection mentioned in all of scripture that can bring back the ungodly people! It's over! V Luk 13:23 Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,Luk 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. Luk 13:25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:Luk 13:26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. Luk 13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. Luk 13:28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. Luk 13:29 And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.