A Tip for Arguing Properly in a Relationship | Jordan B Peterson on the Jocko Podcast

You may not always be right in an argument, but you may have the ability to out-argue your partner. However, in order to have a healthy relationship you sometimes need to help your partner articulate their argument.
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[@sim.frischh9781]

"Never laugh about the choices of your wife, you are one of them!"

[@1stand2ndtimearound67]

I love it!!!

[@IsaacMorgan1873]

Winning in short term vs. winning in the long term. Good insight JP

[@antonia6059]

Well put! I’ve been happily married 16 years. At first we fought a lot and did the win loose thing. But after a while we began to understand that it was extremely unproductive. Now we’re able most of the time to try and problem solve. Instead of attempting to dominate or humiliate each other. We try to make sure everyone in our household has their needs met reasonably well. Our kids have watched this and I see them emulating it. It’s great they’ll have that skill in their relationships.

[@IanGerritsen]

*sends video to parents*

[@clantestwerd3445]

Sometimes you gotta lose the battle to win the war

[@livingwell6114]

“Do it 100,000 times then your marriage is over, and then there will be hell to pay.” So true!

[@davidamoritz]

The wife and I use a white board to write our disagreements and reasons for our point, it works sometimes her reasons change my mind, sometimes mine change hers.

[@noname-yw2gw]

interesting. can you give an example?

[@nintendude794]

@@noname-yw2gw this seems to be an example. And then his wife would make a similar whiteboard and they'd go back and forth with dialogue and whiteboards until they reached an understanding. It's also a bit like the IDW notion of "steelmanning" your opponent, as invoked during the Peterson v Harris debates. kzbin.info/www/bejne/hKi9lJlsdrSCfZI

[@DRE4Mzy]

The world would be a better place if had more people like Jordan Peterson. He tilts the scale to the greater good of humankind. His words have made me a better man.

[@maxand.1462]

Jocko vs. Bucko...

[@rfpeace]

I think the real point here is the fact it doesn't need to be a zero-sum, winner vs looser, adversarial relationship. Just be and try to be happy too :) cheers

[@JanicePhillips]

ronP __ Happy? Are you married? 23 yrs for me and my lover. Contentment. Security. Respect. Loyalty. Then...and only then might you find this happiness of which you speak. Of course, desire helps. ;D

[@davidamoritz]

ronP __ true

[@axelord4ever]

The _Game of Games_ is not a PVP game. What you want to do is include your spouse into the winning-conditions. Can't always happen, and most often 'compromises' are also not the solution. You want to build that game-board in such a way that winning an argument imparts as little as possible on the _Game of Games._

[@XIIchiron78]

It's startling to realize that some things like this aren't immediately obvious to most people

[@user-ko5ul7yi1x]

Five of Swords: Winning isn't everything. You could be right or win the argument but if you were a complete dick about it, you can risk losing the relationship. It won't feel like you actually won. You just defeated your loved one(s) without ending the conflict in a better way. At least how I see the message of that particular tarot card if applied to arguments with loved ones.

[@BdDaBOMB]

How exactly do you help your partner develop their arguments?

[@OneCatholicSpeaks]

I would be interested in how he would respond to The way I have presented my point is I don't have any respect for her always being right. I have immeasurable respect for her being correct. The difference is is based in pride. Being correct is based in research and intelligence. If there is a discussion about an impartial fact, 1+1=2, then her feelings are besides the point. If we are talking about the realm of personal taste, then both our feelings are very relevant. I've also heard some people who have a question when the wife says she wants to talk. The first question out of his mouth is If it is a request for help, the there should come a point where she should step aside and let the help start.

[@Ianjcarroll]

Don't play games that have bad goals.

[@jmcjmc2007]

I find this idea really hard to get my head around... Wouldn't it also be incredibly frustrating and demeaning to spend your life not saying what you believe to be true, equally disastrously so (depending on the personality type) as admitting 'defeat' in every argument?

[@readerofstainedhearts0593]

Marriage is a seemingly never-ending string of compromises, if done right. I understand where this comes from; you feel that by conceding to your partner's arguments every step of the way through your relationship devalues your opinion and stifles your ability to resist, is that right? I somewhat feel the same way, but I try to temper that thought process with this: In a relationship, it is necessary for the two partners to always have an ear open towards each other's thoughts and opinions, no matter how skewed or opposed to it you are. The situation need not devolve into an argument, as long as both of you are allowed to articulate your points and free yourselves from the invisible barrier of uncertainty. Now, if one of you isn't as eloquent or direct in getting your points across, it may be up to the other partner to try to piece together their stance without tampering with it; be fair to them. If your partner is worthwhile, she will leave the situation well enough alone to discuss another time without trading low blows, or if that isn't an option, both of you will work out the topic bit by bit until one, or better yet, both sides concede at certain points. If she's not willing to compromise and will stoop to sweep away your concerns, or target you personally, then that woman is very likely not worth cherishing any day. It will be frustrating, as the two of you may not be very experienced in empathizing with the other person's needs and wants, and you will argue endlessly. Regardless, it is excellent practice towards compromising and discovering similar interests and shared beliefs. My girlfriend right now holds some feminist ideas that I abhorrently disagree with, such as the Gender Pay Gap, however I won't confront the topic vehemently or even at all until she makes a point at it. In this scenario, I have to remain tactful and give her reasons why I don't believe in it and how I believe it is a nonsensical idea without completely dismissing her concerns. I realize this jumble may not have helped as much as you may want, but I hope it at least cleared up the air a small amount!

[@toddmg]

Jordan Peterson constantly says to speak the truth... to say as you said "what you believe to be true". In this video he means that you should approach the verbal interaction NON competitively, but instead cooperatively. You say what you think is true, but not to win, but because the truth is always best for both of you. If the other person has a poorly formulated argument then help them make their argument better (even though its an argument against your position)... Then the two of you can compare and contrast your argument vs their newly improved argument, then the two of you can cooperatively seek the truth and the best outcome.

[@djlink111]

brilliant

[@b0ssvevo603]

What is the outro music?

[@fakeemail9081]

Go away

[@manuelcrespoale]

Good to know.

[@JanicePhillips]

Hit play. Hit pause. *Dry Chicken?* Now...let's see. ;)

[@JanicePhillips]

Awww man. Snap. The dry chicken story was gold. Of course, you may have clipped it already. I'm subbed here for support and occasional sharing. Snippets of Doc JBP are not my cup of tea. I require HOURS AND HOURS. ;)

[@ellenabadian]

Write letters to your partner.. what you have against him or her.❤

[@chuchocastillo4913]

Can somebody link the original video?

[@sarakaster]

What's the piano song in the outro?

[@Varangian_af_Scaniae]

I much rather sit here alone, being right than forced to bend over to a creature thinking with their "feelings" over logic.

[@impancaking]

Varangian af Scaniae 00:35 'She has something to say and its not very well articulated... same could be true for you' It has little to do with feelings over logic and more to do with healthy/effective communication. He mentions she may be right even if she loses and visa versa. It sounds like you've had some tragic experiences in relationships, romantic or otherwise

[@smiley122688]

Comes from a pathological obsession to prove yourself so you can match how other see yourself to your ego. If you are right other people don’t need to be convinced, if you are confident within the fact that you know the truth you can live with that alone, and accept that others have different points of view based on other experiences, and that if you have learned something before them you can let them have the time to learn it as their life progresses. We all have something to learn.

[@Kevin_wiIiams]

Step one. Don’t.

[@mkrump9403]

1:22

[@oghuvwublessing705]

THE LORD is good. HIS Son, Jesus Christ is Awesome.

[@cassandras7399]

Sorry, Peterson, but you’re pushing the male = rational argument, without looking at individuals. Not well reasoned. As a scientist, I’ve had the opposite experience frequently, in personal relationships. Trends don’t define individuals- but perhaps the clip was too short and thus non contextual.

[@sandeshrangari694]

Married too looser...😂😂😂 such type of rejection causes divorce woman are fragile more than men..

[@SonoTom]

marriage is not simply a personal relationship. it's a socially conditioned legal institution of exchange - from which women's activists have erased obligation & risk, for only the wife. post-feminist marriage is hardly more than servitude for men, and a women's lifestyle & retirement facility. such conditions are against any healthy relationship, obviously.

[@dandiego7298]

This is the last JP video I’ll watch. Why must we watch 15 seconds of ads before seeing each video? Sorry, not gonna do it.

[@wesleymatthews6356]

turn off ads

[@invictus_They-Them_Nazi_Hunter]

So Peterson admits he married beneath him intellectually. You don't say.

[@DashingDomDom]

what gives you that idea?

[@invictus_They-Them_Nazi_Hunter]

Dominic Paolucci he's talking about his wife. He has to help her form an argument, even when she is right. Otherwise he would have to face the realisation that he married beneath himself.

[@rhysoliver227]

Well, he is a borderline genius as far as I can tell. So it makes sense. Especially given female mating strategy.

[@invictus_They-Them_Nazi_Hunter]

Rhys Oliver then he should speak his truth and admit that instead of his cowardly placating and obsequiousness toward women.

[@rhysoliver227]

He could but a marriage is a partnership. You can't "Win" all the time. That's his whole point.

[@scott.baierscott2198]

Or just don't have a wife. It's alot better to live alone and not argue at all then have some demand you do what they want. See Jordan thinks you're not successful ifnyoure not married. You don't need to be married. Marriage has no real benefits in life anymore.