ABC’s Jonathan Karl in Conversation with Peter Baker: Tired of Winning

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Join New York Times-bestselling author Jonathan Karl, chief Washington correspondent for ABC News and co-anchor of This Week, for a conversation with The New York Times’ Peter Baker about the aftermath of the Trump presidency - and Karl’s new book Tired of Winning: Donald Trump and the End of the Grand Old Party. Cited by the January 6th Congressional Committee as an important source for understanding the attack on the US capitol, Karl’s Betrayal was an instant bestseller, changing the way the public understood the end of the Trump presidency. In his follow-up, Tired of Winning, provides crucial and chilling insight into how Trump leveraged his defeat into becoming the most dominant force in Republican politics yet again. Hear him and Baker discuss the new revelations in his reporting, Trump’s continued relationships with everyone from Kevin McCarthy to Tucker Carlson, the future of conservative politics in America, and what it means for our democracy.
Recorded November 13, 2023 at The 92nd Street Y, New York.
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[@lqpbq]

If this interview doesn't terrify every American into voting against Trump then nothing will. You can't listen to this and think that Trump should be president again. It's just astounding and disgusting

[@girlfromthebronxbywayofelb7288]

The problem is that this interview is largely preaching to the choir. The cult followers of the pumpkin headed grifter do not attend events at the 92nd Street Y. They are unlikely to read Mr Karl's book, although they should. Some other trusted messenger who is already in the circle might catch their ear, but who would that person be? Cheney clearly wasn't the one. Who else can penetrate the cone of silence?

[@B_Bodziak]

Frank Schaefer's interview on MeidasTouch is absolutely terrifying. The personal insights he has into Mike Johnson and the Falwell Clan is frightening.

[@B_Bodziak]

​@@girlfromthebronxbywayofelb7288 Frank Shaeffer is spilling the entire box of tea about Mike Johnson, Trump, the Falwell Clan, and other prominent evangelicals. His father started the political evangelical movement. I never thought I'd listen to a prominent evangelical for an hour, but his interview on MT was fascinating and frightening.

[@girlfromthebronxbywayofelb7288]

@@B_Bodziak good to know

[@user-gl9jd3ih8h]

Things will change. God works in mysterious ways. Stinky Trump is trending on the internet and gaining forceful momentum. It's also been revealed that Trump has a major, ongoing drug problem. Trump might be running for 2024 election but I don't think he will be there in November 2024. Trump is stressed and literally shitting himself. He has lost his business licence to operate in New York for 3 years. He is "rooted", as we would say in Australia 🦘

[@LindaDianeBroomhead-eu2ry]

The "what if" you missed was .... What if McConnell and the Republicans in the Senate had voted to convict Trump after the second impeachment.

[@andyroo9381]

It is my understanding that Moscow Mitch went to Republican Senators and asked them NOT to impeach trump, "as a personal favor" to himself. I wonder if it could have happened. I don't know how many minds Moscow Mitch reached.

[@alanosterman7130]

But what about all those partisan right wing judges that need to be appointed ?

[@LindaDianeBroomhead-eu2ry]

@@andyroo9381 obviously enough that he didn't get convicted which would have barred him from ever running from office again....another missed opportunity.

[@spirit5228]

'What ifs' do not work. We are living a reality with this orange menace whose desperation for power has no bounds.

[@johnstallings4049]

​@@LindaDianeBroomhead-eu2ryamong hundreds.....

[@aamir-hk8px]

Such smart hosts really.

[@shyft09]

Mind blowing interview, thank you 👏👏👏

[@kellysanchez1000]

The sad truth - Not a single republican maga cult member will ever read Jonathans book or believe a single word he says.

[@angelapalmer6782]

That's not always true. My dad and brother came around. All it took was me showing my dad the videos of trump talking about his daughter. The sickened look on his face gave me joy!!!! He hasn't said a word about him since.

[@kellysanchez1000]

@@angelapalmer6782 the footage of Trump sticking his foot in his mouth, saying disgusting things. Explaining serious issues like a 3rd Grader and rambling like an imbecile - this footage is everywhere. Yet I will never understand why otherwise "Normal" people simply dont give a. sh...t and support him anyway. Its almost like they support him not in spite of this footage, but because of it. Its simply astonishing.

[@johnstallings4049]

​@@angelapalmer6782That's exactly what my MAGA frenemies ❤ about Trump! 😶

[@angelapalmer6782]

@@johnstallings4049 Well that's just disgusting.

[@arbitrarysequence]

@@angelapalmer6782 Yep. It's worse than you thought. Keep in mind: When one believes they cannot imagine it getting worse, one is merely experiencing a failure of imagination.

[@patriciajump9511]

Trump's insult, "... couldn't get his own show ..." Oh my gosh, Trump still thinks it's all about performance and attracting the most "viewers."

[@brega6286]

That goes for both parties and the main media.

[@arbitrarysequence]

More to the point, he knows that's how his followers view the world.

[@UnknownPascal-sc2nk]

Or selling "merch"

[@AnitaDamoneLambert]

Thanks John! We must continue to spread the truth!

[@AugustSpence-xu5lv]

The Truth America Is Coming For You All🎉

[@AugustSpence-xu5lv]

Trump Maga Coming

[@B_Bodziak]

​@@AugustSpence-xu5lv How's that new KZbin account working for you?

[@sandraspidle5972]

This interview was necessary and you helped clear up some questions for me. Thank you.💥🌟

[@fredlifsitz7411]

Talk about utter insanity. Let’s hope the former guy heads to sing sing speedily.

[@loiscase4497]

We need much more of this kind of interview and have it broadly disseminated. It is frightening how ill informed so much of the electorate is and in many cases ill informed on purpose.

[@cherylfelix392]

fake news. wake up!

[@cherylfelix392]

lmao

[@jobinsmith4116]

He’s an excellent reporter and speaker!! Thx 4 all u do Jonathon! Can’t wait to get your book!

[@maryr.scholl2913]

As a democrat, I pretty much mistrust the media devoted to trump…. I cannot call them conservative.

[@DrNancyLivingCoCreatively]

A military hospital w guards and medication. A supermax. Psychiatry have said this for years.

[@gghhiiyy456]

Maybe we should make a law that if a former president is convicted he doesn’t get secret service any more

[@jakebarnes28]

Why would you want them kidnapped and tortured to reveal state secrets?

[@gghhiiyy456]

@@jakebarnes28 in jail? They will be in jail

[@angelapalmer6782]

​@@jakebarnes28Not all of them just Trump. Let's be real that idiot couldn't remember anything unless he had the documents in his hands. His own people say he didn't listen to briefings. He's too stupid.

[@jcbjcb2]

@@jakebarnes28 Empty the Mar-a-Lardo potty room of state secrets. Nothing in Orangeman's head is reliable. For current example, it can't decide whether loan collateral was worth $18B or $40B+

[@abocas]

He can hir his own security!

[@ARichardP]

If he was reelected why couldn’t he just declare all these cases, including the state ones, null and void? He would stop at nothing to protect himself.

[@michelez715]

I think he can erase federal charges, but not state charges, same as a president can issue pardons for federal crimes, but not state ones.

[@johnstallings4049]

​@@michelez715He'll do it ANYWAY!😶

[@sarahhearn-vonfoerster7401]

​@johnstallings4049 He'll try!😊

[@johnstallings4049]

@@sarahhearn-vonfoerster7401 cuz he's 'canny!' BidenHarris2024 ❄️🌎❄️

[@michalolson4014]

The book! Great Christmas gifts!😉

[@margareteller-he1qk]

Can someone send him back to kindergarten, so that he can learn that grace in loss is the hallmark of a real winner?

[@user-gl9jd3ih8h]

Nah Margaret! Not going to work with Trump. He's damaged goods.

[@joebeech7423]

Thanks for hosting this session Peter. I’m close to finishing your (and Susan Glasser’s “The Divider”) book which is an unbelievable read. I’ve ordered Jonathan’s new book and eagerly await its arrival in Melbourne AUS.

[@DFM3333]

Amazing interview

[@carolinemaybe]

I think the most he would get is home detention but he will just appeal til his last day on earth.

[@scherrypierce]

Some people think he has (the most) 2 years.

[@samanthamariefreeman335]

How could we expect DT to have ANY respect for the laws, when for forty+ yrs DT has broken multiples of laws, and NEVER been held to account, as if HE IS special and ABOVE the laws. He has proof that he IS. Historically he gets away with whatever he wants to do. Spit on laws. Respect??

[@johnlichti4954]

Waiting fòr his head to explode from "all the greatness."

[@JellyBean-lo4sl]

Why do people go along with dump? Because that IS who they are too. He's the devil on their shoulder and they are weak.

[@CBDguitar]

They are weak & gullible GQP snowflakes too

[@johnstallings4049]

And they have 2 👿 Devils on thier shoulders! 😅

[@DrNancyLivingCoCreatively]

Amazing. How did he do this? Trump is insane. I know.

[@francisj.opolko3728]

Who will vote for trump? Other losers.

[@jcbjcb2]

@@francisj.opolko3728 Orangeman's fellow felons... but they can't vote (unless they are "dead voters", as the KSM tells us)

[@ronkrate609]

Thanks for the opening PROMO. It so current gig column-isty

[@eirlysseldon7834]

Since reading Jonathan’s book I keep thinking about a wartime series that was on here in the UK called Colditz . One of the British prisoners told his prison inmates that he was going to act mentally ill as it was a way of getting out of the POW camp .Every encounter everyone had with him for months and years after he was talking nonsense and behaving strangely . Eventually a doctor certified him insane . He never was well again . I just wonder if he will be tipped over the edge with all this false belief and the court cases .

[@jcbjcb2]

Yes. Orangeman's "egotistical rambling idiot" act has partially _become_ Orangeman.

[@lupemerrit]

Lock him up!

[@stratman1192]

Instead of live Trump interviews they should only agree to prerecorded interviews with fact checks interjected with backing documentation (fact check done by nondescript voice - not the interviewer). The same should be done for any press release or "tweet". Much as it is being done by "KZbin" reporters.

[@DS_P8]

Trump's show is old at this point and we've seen all the cards that he plays. Change the conversation completely and end the stupidity of his criminality. Who wants to listen to him anymore? Nobody.

[@fu2419]

You know what would really help everything? If people realized that presidents, as powerful as they are, can't do more than half of what folks think they can and they also can't do any of it instantly.

[@gghhiiyy456]

I wish the media would follow the investigation of who sent the envelopes so everyone knows that will not go without accountability

[@user-gl9jd3ih8h]

Jonathan Karl - lets hope that your books are studied as part of the US education curriculum. I think that lots of Americans do not know their own history, do not know how the voting system works. There is too much complacency and reliance on being spoon fed. I'm writing from Australia and this is what 6 Jan has taught me. It's also my responsibility to learn and get educated. Thank you! The podcasts are really helpful. I've started to really broaden my data points of information.

[@mowsefmow8177]

"i don't get into media criticism"

[@hectorcruz3337]

Elect Tromp! You really won't have a country anymore.

[@Believernomics]

The troubling thing is that at points during this interview, they are laughing. US democracy is literally at stake and there is laughter.

[@sarahhearn-vonfoerster7401]

Sometimes, laughter is all you have against such an outrageous menace !

[@laesperanza5408]

Mr. Karl, VERY good point about Trump focussed more on whether or not he could get back in than actually believing he had won.

[@patrickpierce1635]

I'm sure CALLING Johnny Macantee and TELLING him what you're writing is supposed to make us think you're doing real hard-hitting journalism?

[@Brutally-Honest]

As a psychic, in my mind's eye I see Mr. trump as a clown, but not of this age, but ancient, they called them court jesters, complete with his forked hat and strangely wild costumes (and he was a failure as a jester too, btw).

[@wanderertimetogo348]

He is saying that now. Go figure.

[@MomDeb]

I have a suggestion for an actually fair Presidential debate … one Trump would never agree to accept; but, what could work. Separate the candidates into soundproof booths (like a game show LOL). Adhere to strict rules of debate. Time limits that mute the candidate after one two minute warning. Each candidate may listen to the reply or rebuttal; but, interruptions will be blocked. Each booth goes dark when muted to prevent gestures or sign language. Candidates will be reminded at a two minute warning if they have or haven’t answered the question. A highly unlikely scenario … but, a really good daydream.

[@shukimom7]

Trump fans the flames of threatening people. I blame McConnelll, he could have stopped this !

[@tomnohmy1273]

I'm detached from reality, doesn't mean much

[@sandraspidle5972]

I've seen this Mcgregor, sorry if this spelling is incorrect, on valuetainment maybe, talking crap as if what he says is absolute!! Crazy talk.

[@jacqueline755]

Governing by Google. Anyone who is looking for that fellow discussed ... Johnny McEntee. (I went to UCONN with him.. )

[@missmurrydesign7115]

Delicious...

[@ravipeiris4388]

Journalists are the carnival. Do your job?

[@alaine57]

Psychopath comes to mind, surrounded by more criminals

[@user-yf8xe8be8n]

There shouldn’t b a debate between trump and Biden.

[@loisschultz8889]

So you throw out Bandy X Lee and all the psychiatrists, with “they weren’t in the room” and then proceed to psychoanalyze Trump. Your credentials being you were in the room. You have the juicy tidbits. I guess it sells. Where were all the news people for 4 years? It is shameful and continues to be shameful what news companies did to promote this monster.

[@dougjardine8545]

God gives many burdens; also shoulders. -- quoted by Carter

[@SonaliGurpur]

Okay, okay, okay, so Trump is popular enough with the American population to possibly become President again. Clearly, he isn't stupid. He has figured something out that you and I don't understand yet. Don't call him stupid. Instead, try to figure out what he's figured out.

[@CBDguitar]

Trump dupes weak & gullible GQP snowflakes. Who else would send their hard-earned money to a self-proclaimed billionaire?

[@jabbermocky4520]

He figured out how to get addictive personalities to become addicted to him. Gamblers, junkies, alcoholics, compulsive hoarders....those are the people he preys upon. His personal failings make THEM feel better about their own inability to restrain themselves. He's the "dry drunk" of their dreams. If he can get away with it all, they can, too. No need to address their own destructive addictions.

[@SonaliGurpur]

@@jabbermocky4520 he also gives off a strong father vibe. All his kids have been by his side since The Apprentice. People who have teenagers and older kids marvel at that. I find that almost every family has at least one kid coming out of the closet, and a whole bunch of those parents are planning to vote for him because they see him as the only grandpa who supports them in their hopeless quest to bring the child back to the normie fold. It's never going to happen. It's a very selfish choice, but people are making that choice. He also appeals to fascist leaning folks. It's all very misguided and sad and dangerous. I hope they at least refrain from voting for him because he will get the US out of NATO and that's what Russia and China want. He can call Biden The Manchurian Candidate all he wants but that's the bottom line here. I hope MAGAS wake up to the complete horror that will be and they don't vote for him even if they love him. 30 years ago I used to think the Trumps, Ivana and Donald...., were a really cool family. I saw them a couple of times on Robin Leach 's Run Away with the Rich and Famous. They seemed friendly and industrious and their kids were adorable.

[@jabbermocky4520]

@@SonaliGurpur Thanks for sharing your perspective with me, Sonali. I didn't watch his TV show, ever, and may be the only American you'll ever meet ( or correspond with ) who didn't watch any TV at all for the majority of my teens and 20s, very little TV in my 30s. PBS and cable, then, not major network stuff. That went on well into my 40s I preferred to read and write and make art in my "down time" but mostly I was working for a living. When Trump staged that bizarre escalator stunt in NYC, with his 3rd wife descending before him in a white gown, I was appalled. "Who is that creep?" I asked myself. The immediate assaults on Mexicans, for example, set my ears back. I am not Mexican, nor an immigrant, but I could see what his divisive and hateful game plan was. Unfortunately, everything I learned about him in the past 7 years has only proven my instincts correct. He is, in my opinion, the lowest of men. The trappings of wealth and celebrity don't impress me. I see him for who he is ( prepare yourself for this ) when he's naked and alone. He is simply disgusting to me. Cheers and thanks again for replying.

[@BelleOmbreGrey]

Trump wasn't circling on the edges until he finally cracked the code. Trump is a creation of America, formed and animated by their very essence. Trump isn't a perversion but a mirror image of the nation.

[@tomnohmy1273]

2x rockstar s

[@Headhunter_212]

These jerks are going to both-sides us right into fascism. All for a check.

[@DG-gu9je]

This was the most one-sided explanation of the Israeli Palestinian conflict I have ever heard. It omitted the expulsion of 700,000 Palestinians amid a brutal war instigated by Israel in 1948. It further omitted the incredibly destructive force of the West Bank settlements and ignores that Israel has become a theocracy and is hardly a democracy. I say this as a Jew but one who can recognize when atrocities are done in my name. What is needed is a two state solution that goes back to the 1947 maps.

[@cindypomerleau950]

Main stream media needs to tape Donalds' interviews so the lies can either be edited or use subtitles as to the real facts. No live interviews!

[@susanblakey-grusing9468]

If he looses he will tell supporters to attack State Capitals where he lost

[@VincentFulco]

Sure tries to make the Dems sound squeaky clean, no transgressions among any of them!

[@UnknownPascal-sc2nk]

You mean like Rod Blagojevich?

[@lindakelley2676]

In comparison, they are. Even the worst Republicans look like boy scouts.

[@frankwhite3659]

Are you guys serious in trying to figure out if he really knew he lost in 2020???GTFOHWTB!!!.....So are you suggesting that if he won his reaction would have been the opposite?

[@maryseman7019]

Yeah, because getting his own show is somehow relevant, and some sort of sign of success. I don't think so.

[@j.m.johnson9970]

So full of lies.

[@lupemerrit]

Unfortunately for us, Trump’s still just a sideshow.

[@judymawhorter7301]

Sorry to disappoint but they don't have much time to read a book or watch this podcast. These Trumpers just watch the evening news and fix dinner,watch a sports game and go to bed and start all over the next day. Trump corners them by doing the rallies which makes them feel special etc.

[@gghhiiyy456]

Donians

[@mewrenchturner]

I don't know about anybody else but I'm completely tired of these guys, and ones like them. They write their little books, they have their little talks, and nothing changes. They're making money but they're doing absolutely nothing for us. They talk in the abstract, make little jokes about the situation we're in. I don't need them to tell me what kind of guy Trump is, Trump does that well enough by himself.

[@UnknownPascal-sc2nk]

So you didn't have any idea the topic before you clicked and watched?

[@porcospino289]

Oh, Karly. About 37:50: He called I a traitor .... Didn't take sixth grade grammar. He called I stupid.

[@angelapalmer6782]

And neither did you apparently. Pot meet kettle.

[@jgatkinson744]

Karl is the worst reporter the news media ever had he does his best to turn people against others that he don’t like he does this continuously to try and make a name for his self. I don’t know why they let him get away with this. He is terrible.

[@nancyferguson2321]

No live interviews with a liar.

[@jonnieinbangkok]

The Democrat cope of the lamestream media gatekeepers 😂 😂 😂 #UltraMAGA2024 #LetsGoBrandon

[@jakebarnes28]

Cult45

[@angelapalmer6782]

Brandon's going!!! Kicking ass! And it's dark Brandon to you scumbags!!!😂😂😂

[@jonnieinbangkok]

@@angelapalmer6782 More Democrat voter cope 🤔 Doubt Pres. Brandon could lift his leg high enough to kick anyone 😂

[@janicenelson7639]

@jonnieinbangkok < ■ This MAGAt troll, Jonnie Kok (Jonnie doesn't even live in this country) knows that his cult leader, PO1135890 is not only dangerous, but he DOESN’T have both oars in the water. ✅️ ■ It is essential to always remember that these MAGAt trolls only make these bizarre comments out of desperation. THEY ARE DESPERATE. ✅️ ■ They know that their dear leader is in the throes of the most SPECTACULAR DOWNFALL that this country has ever witnessed. ✅️ ■ PO1135890's DOWNFALL points to their own demise. ✅️ #ByePO1135890ByeMAGAts!

[@janicenelson7639]

​@@jonnieinbangkok < ■ America has thwarted PO1135890 before - and will do so again! 💙 BIDEN 2024 💙 VOTE 🗳 BLUE! A BLUE VOTE is A VOTE for DEMOCRACY💙

[@quique2886]

I love the line Kurtz! I love Trump. I want him as President. America will be destroyed from within.

[@wanderertimetogo348]

🤖

[@angelapalmer6782]

🐑🐑🐑🐑

[@janicenelson7639]

@quique2886 < ■ This MAGAt troll, Qui Que, knows that his cult leader, PO1135890 is not only dangerous, but he DOESN’T have both oars in the water. ✅️ ■ It is essential to always remember that these MAGAt trolls only make these bizarre comments out of desperation. THEY ARE DESPERATE. ✅️ ■ They know that their dear leader is in the throes of the most SPECTACULAR DOWNFALL that this country has ever witnessed. ✅️ ■ PO1135890's DOWNFALL points to their own demise. ✅️ #ByePO1135890ByeMAGAts!

[@justiceforall6412]

CHUMP is the Norma Desmond of politics