Jonathan Karl | Donald Trump and the End of the GOP

Explore the transformation of the Republican Party through the lens of Ronald Reagan and Donald Trump with journalist Jonathan Karl. Karl, who has closely followed Trump's career from his days as a New York Post reporter to his presidency, provides insights into Trump's post-presidential influence and the GOP's current state. In his latest book, "Tired of Winning," Karl examines Trump's impact on the party, from his Mar-a-Lago exile to his potential 2024 presidential bid. Discover the challenges and controversies facing the GOP as it navigates the aftermath of the Trump era.
Karl photo by Brigitte Lacombe.
December 7, 2023
Speakers
Jonathan Karl
Chief Washington Correspondent, ABC News; Author, Tired of Winning: Donald Trump and the End of the Grand Old Party; X @jonkarl
In Conversation with Jonathan Swan
Political Reporter, The New York Times; X @jonathanvswan
👉Join our Email List! www.commonwealthclub.org/email
🎉 BECOME a MEMBER: www.commonwealthclub.org/memb...
The Commonwealth Club of California is the nation's oldest and largest public affairs forum 📣, bringing together its 20,000 members for more than 500 annual events on topics ranging across politics, culture, society and the economy.
Founded in 1903 in San Francisco California 🌉, The Commonwealth Club has played host to a diverse and distinctive array of speakers, from Teddy Roosevelt in 1911 to Anthony Fauci in 2020.
In addition to the videos🎥 shared here, the Club reaches millions of listeners through its podcast🎙 and weekly national radio program📻.

[@Hrazoart]

For my entire life I voted as an independent. Trump convinced me to align with the Dems.

[@markrieck6204]

That's patriotism. Country and Constitution over petty politics. Our choices are anyone but the Insurrectionist. It's the lack of a Republican party that has me voting straight Dem or Indie. That party folded after Jan6.

[@egtaha]

You vote?! LOL I feel sorry for you!

[@markrieck6204]

@@egtahaweak

[@annaharding6084]

same here!

[@dalecox5928]

@@egtaha It's okay that you don't vote. That's one less vote for Trump.

[@lqpbq]

When Trump says you didn't work hard enough for me what he means is you weren't willing to break the law commit violence or go to jail for me.

[@Jlr-vz8cc]

So very true!!

[@marklucas6114]

The problem was ALL the behind deals during President Donald Trumps time in office. We need individuals that care about the poor hardworking Americans. We can have evil, greedy, selfish leader's in Washington DC. The invasion by illegal immigrants is destroying our lives and communities.

[@janetives5470]

It’s never Trump’s fault. Toddler tantrums.

[@retiredatlast6206]

Many did go to prison, and he will join them soon. We’ll see how he truly feels about his “perfect base” when he’s digging rocks with them and he doesn’t have his Mar-a-lago cloak or stage podium to protect himself.

[@lorrainevezeau-kq3jg]

Rudy did and now owes nearly 150 million and is facing jail time. 😂not everyone are stupid

[@terrylawson647]

I cannot believe this man who has no honor, no morals, no alledgence to anyone but hmself. Is now running to avoid going to jail. If he is not convicted and sent to prison, We will be headed for some serious problems within this country.

[@marionwoodard2418]

👍👍❤❤

[@demcduff]

And yet the GOP will support him.

[@adiliareis3631]

​@@demcduff vote red ❤

[@user-nc7qk3cb9e]

@@adiliareis3631 Vote blue 2024!

[@lharris151]

It really has devastated my opinion of my own country.I can only imagine what other countries think. Watching us is like watching a slow-moving train wreck inside a horror movie inside a nightmare. The cowardice and greed of Republican politicians is mind-boggling . As for his voting base , if the consequences weren't so dire, I'd wish for them to get their way, then watch them realize their mistake. Authoritarian dictators care nothing for their supporters once they no longer need their support. Goodbye freedom Goodbye human rights Goodbye representative government. This should be quite a year. Vote blue.

[@njosborne6152]

I blame Moscow Mitch McConnell as much as the Orange Monster as the grim reaper of democracy👁🔔👁

[@terryloftus3207]

Definatly,power over Country,thats Mitch

[@thelmarichards3288]

It's Orange Jesus

[@dennisbloomquist9220]

McTortoise is one of the worst Americans ever to sit in power. His legacy will be much like Kissinger's. Neither ever cared about questions of ultimate morality.

[@ronaldjackson9521]

A lot of rinos who hate America he loves .that's what drives him.belichek sick

[@jannichi6431]

Mitch was out for sometime and now walks a limp. That must have been some tumble down the stairs.

[@m.w.976]

*Nope! As of June 2015, the GOP ... the ORIGINAL GOP ceased to exist. The party of your parents/grandparents no longer exist. Not even a hint of it, sadly.*

[@andrew_owens7680]

What's even more insane is, IT'S THE SAME PEOPLE. The Democrats think that, because they knew a guy for 20 years, he hasn't changed into an anti-Constitutional psychopath and Russia bot.

[@rhondah1587]

The GOP has been a party hell bent on destroying the government since Reagan who did everything to destroy the middle class and started the march to get rid of the entire social safety net and every aspect of FDR's New Deal policies that actually built up the country for the people. They also have gone after the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts along with women's rights and other minorities' rights from discrimination. There agenda has been carried on for at least the last 40+ years and with Trump, they felt close to victory.

[@indranidasgupta8982]

It happened before that. It happened the moment Sarah Palin became a national figure. I believe John McCain took that guilt to his grave. Hence his ACA vote.

[@m.w.976]

@@indranidasgupta8982 *Did Senator McCain (RIP Patriot!) make a mistake with Palin? ABSOLUTELY! SHE is the reason he did not get my vote! But, even then and after, there was still a hint of decency. There was NEVER a time America's democracy was threatened. NEVER! Well, until June 2015. And now, it's hanging by a thread!*

[@Dang329]

​@@m.w.976 Dear GOD : Will someone not rid us of Crooked Conald?

[@Dennis_510]

GOP will never get rid of the stench of Trump. Ever.

[@scottfarnsworth4431]

Epstein.

[@bobwallace9753]

Nixon. He's now faded into the fog of history for most.

[@John-uq7uu]

​@@bobwallace9753there's still a stench on Nixon. And Nixon is a Boy Scout compared to Trump

[@iv2sab512]

If Trump gets back into the Whitehouse, neither will the country.

[@henkholdingastate]

The Republican Party is dead. What there is, is a cult around trump

[@susanne9602]

I simply don't care if this is the end of the Republican party. They have chosen this path and have had multiple opportunities to turn it around and chose not to. They have zero remorse. I simply do care if they cause the end of our democracy.

[@user-ts1hd2bm4u]

If we don't have our Democracy, then what is the alternative? It's a good dream, what our founding fathers had. But, if this is the end of Democracy, I think we should give the country back to the people it was stolen from.

[@user-ts1hd2bm4u]

Sorry, I read that incorrectly.I thought it read that you *don't care.

[@lukmaes6290]

I wonder what people as Mich MConnell think of the monster they created and that has destroyed everyone of them, they’re powerless without him now

[@roberthannah7983]

Its the end of the traditionalist Republican party, replaced by a new "Rep-populist" party, and its strongman leader will protect YOU from THEM - THEM being immigrants, elites, government, liberals, etc ........

[@jamesmedina2062]

the party has been a junk trojan horse in service to oil industry et al for over 20 years. The latest charades are obviously irrelevant to everyone else.

[@Mary-xo7go]

I wish he HAD left the Republican party. The Republican party has betrayed those of us who don't buy into the cult.

[@kyllancarrington]

Mary I concur with your sentiment 100% Australia

[@mc1dash1b]

Trump was the inevitable result of the Reagan proposition that a growing population does not benefit from a government large enough and fiscally able to meet its needs and obligations.

[@SampsonSaintBunrd]

YES they have

[@jannichi6431]

Please read Heritage's playbook Project 2025. Your party has been captured. No 'conservatives' remain. Political Action Committees desire Autocratic wanna be oligarchs. Dismantle the Constitution and control all. Two or more healthy parties are required for a thriving democracy. No can do this round, I'm sorry to say Radical Rights are in charge today.

[@jonimarsh9105]

The Evangelical Racist Religious Right Propaganda has taken over the republikkkan party.

[@paulthomson2466]

The GOP will go down with Trump

[@shellimendoza7332]

God let's hope

[@m.w.976]

*It already has gone down. The GOP has now become TTP. The Trump Party is now the party of autocracy. In Trump's own words, he will be a dictator if given the chance again!*

[@user-pn1kb3hj1m]

If young people are naive enough to be supporting Hamas, a terrorist (mostly of their own people) organization, en masse, either by default or deliberate vote, TFG could be installed in 2025. That could, indeed would, mean civil war, with one side heavily armed and without scruples. The usual "thoughts and prayers" wouldn't cover it. 😞

[@annakingry9157]

The GOP has already gone down for many of us former Republicans.

[@darlenegriffith6186]

​​@@annakingry9157So true! As someone who was a Republican for 30 plus years, I left the party in 2016. I can't see myself voting for a Republican ever again.

[@angies.7689]

Stop talking about a second Trump term and start talking about why it can’t he allowed to happen and what should be done to prevent it!

[@ALT-vz3jn]

Yes. Complacency will allow that evil man to weasel his way back in, just as it happened in 2016.

[@BobBalcomb-bo4eq]

In 2016 he had Russian backing no doubt in my mind America was and still is under cyber attack from Russia

[@louisemccoy9410]

Please ! Pretend you are outraged, too ! Find the sunshine....this "downer stuff" is not healthy !!

[@richardbrophy4120]

let the people in the general election decide who gits tuh be prez, jus like the constitution says bro ! ( don worry, we'll steal dis one even more stealthily than las time bros !)

[@laranita1968ify]

TRUMP 2024!!!!!!

[@user-wn5zl5mt2m]

I am not voting for a king. I am voting blue 💙.

[@incognitotorpedo42]

Not a king. A Fuhrer.

[@bobmiltner7832]

It was the failure to convict by the Senate that was the pivotal moment.

[@kaystevens8428]

If only the corrupt, power-hungry, greedy Republican Senators would have upheld their oath of office. If they would’ve done the right thing - for the country (and the world, really), he would’ve been forbidden to ever run for political office. Imagine how much better off we all would be now - having had the peace of his silence the past 3 years.

[@lorrainevezeau-kq3jg]

I hope they all feel guilty about it and have karma

[@Tymykal]

@@lorrainevezeau-kq3jg republicans feel guilt? You’re dreaming!

[@richardlawson6787]

Only one Republican senator stood up and voted to impeach..mitt romney...all others aided the coup and should also be prosecuted

[@hollandanish5557]

I'm with you there. The GOP failed the American populus by not impeaching the traitor and walking him out of the Whitehouse with security guards so he wouldn't steal anything.

[@lauracohen4914]

His followers will watch him "martyr" himself going to his many trials and then vote for him. Terrifying. It is truly a bizarre phenomenon to be witnessing.

[@scooterdooter]

They were always going to vote for him. They're not people, they don't think. Robots gotta do what robots gotta do.

[@jimako6]

It's gotten beyond ridiculous

[@zyxmyk]

he's not polling well in Nebraska. I think rural America is turning against him. I don't think he can ever win again.

[@miguelvelez7221]

@@zyxmyk From your keyboard to the Almighty's screen. Fingers crossed.

[@tschorsch]

@@zyxmyk I hope you're right, but I don't trust the American voter to think critically.

[@karladiaz6052]

Everything Trump touched, he destroyed.

[@J-CNick92106]

77 years of destruction

[@louisemccoy9410]

Google that fact !! AMAZING. The kiss of failure !!

[@dalecox5928]

@@J-CNick92106 Just Trump's smell can cause destruction. Look what he did to the White House.

[@asifnihal]

and every time Trump opens his mouth a lie to go with it

[@poolplayerpoolplayer7430]

Snowflake

[@velikovskysghost]

I want to add that I as an America stand with both Jonathan Karl and Jonathan Swan and all Americans who stand against Trump's wanting to be dictator of our America!

[@harryking917]

No room for a dictator in the United States

[@billwalsh388]

The final children's book should be about how he was the first president in history to go to prison for organizing a violent overthrow of an election that he clearly lost. Oh, and he stole a trove of top secret national security documents.

[@rodneyoneil-kb1xk]

YUP!!! And. I’m STILL. THINKING THAT HE. DEFINITELY. SOLD THEM. TO. ONE OF THOSE. SHIT-HOLE COUNTRIES. LIKE NORTH KOREA. OR SAUDI ARABIA. OR. MY FAVORITE RUSSIA!!!

[@maximilliancunningham6091]

Prison ? Trump ? When ? Cue crickets,,,after all he's gotten away with ? It's become a mockery.

[@queenofwater8783]

I just have this really strong feeling that he won’t go to prison, because he will flee to Saudi Arabia. Just a gut feeling.

[@Tymykal]

Still one huge binder of security secrets missing. Last seen with Mark Meadows. Cant miss it. It’s a 10 inch binder. Not much about this from our lousy Trump obsessed media even tho this involves Trump.

[@campcookhenry]

The KZbin psychics say Donald Trump is gonna flee

[@rosemaryjames8731]

he is a complete narcissist... it all starts here. a sick and dangerous narcissist. straight jacket will fit him well.. can't wait

[@marionwoodard2418]

👍👍❤❤

[@eileenhynes8622]

I'm glad people are opening their eyes and ears at last. Hope he goes to jail. His grifter family are going to go under the microscope now that the Courts are going to tackle them for being traitors for the Saudis in taking millions from them.

[@kgs42]

Straight jacket Don. Yes, that works. Dems should use it.

[@christiano2444]

Can you imagine how complicite the GOP is in reinstating Trump as a strong man.

[@greggiles7309]

Strong at Whining.

[@rhondah1587]

They are absolutely complicit and as guilty of insurrection against the government.

[@tammyreyna4074]

@@greggiles7309 😂

[@billwalsh388]

The Grift Old People party.

[@mediaaccess2]

I used to be a Trumpster - fought hard for him. The evidence is clear that the election was fraudulent. That said, I am fighting as much against him now as I used to support him. He is no constitutional conservative. He raised the national debt by 8 trillion, he didn't secure the border, he didn't even make sure - beforehand - to make sure the election would be free and fair. Send the fkn weapons to Ukraine. I now live in Hungary. He's RINO at best, not a conservative of anything other than his own preservation.

[@jodestella2746]

Yes, those good Republicans should be speaking out. John McCain would speak out if he was still here.

[@davidrobinson9507]

Remember that John McCain had Sarah Palin as a running mate. Now we tend to view John McCain with generosity and fondness. But Sarah Palin was the harbinger of this crazy batshit behaviour, especially the current gang of women in the GOP like MTG, Boebert, Mace, Sidney Powell, etc. ; all those really offensive women are all following the tracks that Sarah Palin laid down. John McCain might speak out against Trump if he was here. But he's partly to blame. It's all relative.

[@thomaskremer4604]

34:22 If he returns to White House - there will be no longer a country you want to be a resident of.

[@jodestella2746]

I am wondering what country I flee to. I never go believed I would live to see our country close to the hand of a dictatorship and control of what we read and write.

[@sharontabor7718]

An that is the main message that should be the headline of every newspaper, magazine, billboard for the next year.

[@B_Bodziak]

If Trump gets back into the WH, *nothing else that matters to you will matter anymore* Every issue is secondary to keeping him out of the WH.

[@jdbyerly100]

I already have my exit strategy(ies) together.

[@ardentynekent2099]

I agree, but I need a flat-mate. Looking at the globe daily, and I keep ending up in Canada, if they'd have me? Then again, unless the Far Right have weaponised the entire election process, Trump and his offspring will lose the general. Biden24

[@KathleenHammett-hr1gy]

Jonathan seems to forget , if Trump gets reelected there won't be any courts that will rule for reporters to be allowed in press conferences. Ignore the real threat Trump poses at your own peril , the rest of us won't court Trump for the next book deal , we'll be working hard to make sure everyone we know & who they know & who they know , votes blue to keep Trump out of the White House..

[@DianeGreer]

and your not lieing mame😮😢💙✌️

[@KathleenHammett-hr1gy]

@@DianeGreer 💙✌️

[@J-CNick92106]

​@@DianeGreerIn English? Spell check

[@greggiles7309]

Their is no more Book deal from tRumpF, he will never get a Naval Ship named after him.

[@andrew_owens7680]

The next book deal for Trump will be the ghost writer for his bestseller "My Struggle".

[@jeffrylyon]

Congratulations Mr. Karl on getting under Trump’s skin! From down here in Texas!

[@ElizabethJackson-kh1th]

Why isn't this on television it's so important

[@louisemccoy9410]

Will the American press ever come around and do a much better job than Leslie Stahl with MTG !!! That was terrible, Leslie just sat there !!!

[@marionwoodard2418]

They prefer to have Trump on with his BS.

[@stevendurrant1724]

I've never heard anyone discuss what is a strong appeal of Trump - the fact that he is a serial sexual abuser of women. A lot of people really admire that, especially the young, white male disaffected types. And the deluge of death threats don't come from a vacuum either. Lots of people get off on sending death threats. Much of his base aren't so much political extremists as highly psychologically damaged.

[@honestdon1772]

True, I see tons of willful ignorance also.

[@marilynngray-raine7581]

He has given a huge swath of America permission to show their most ugly, mean-spirited, vulgar cruel selves, no holds barred. This is destroying our civility, our social network. So sad for USA

[@richardleonori9345]

Deplorables?

[@scottfarnsworth4431]

Clinton.

[@jimako6]

Beyond repair so delusional

[@zyxmyk]

Donald Trump--thirteen years old forever.

[@tschorsch]

Subtract a decade and you'd be more correct.

[@anthonymrbs]

My four year old grandson has far more maturity than him.

[@J-CNick92106]

13? That's generous!

[@loriholman1459]

Infant

[@carmenbell77]

The rich kid that owns the ball and is losing, who then takes said ball and storms off

[@helanna9843]

The GOP is the party of family values = Manson Family values.

[@RicheeRich101]

I'm stealing this

[@DyreStraits]

Lots of similarities with Charles Manson and the orange menace.

[@DyreStraits]

Also GOP=the party of law and order (except oops Jan 6)

[@57highland]

GOP = Gangsters Only Party

[@57highland]

GOP = Gangsters Only Party

[@fiwebster9814]

I think it's important for all of us to remember that Jonathan Swan confronted Trump with the Covid death stats & Trump couldn't follow what he was saying. Trump kept insisting that America's Covid response looked bad because we did too much *testing*. He was nuts & Swan really handled it perfectly.

[@LuckyBoyNelson]

Ah but Jonathan Swan was looking at the wrong numbers remember. Trumps charts were better than "The World". Those covid era interviews and speeches were insane. "Person, woman, man, camera, TV", injecting bleach. 😆 Those days seem quaint compared to his current lunacy.

[@daviddempsey8721]

Yes, a very impressive interview, the toughest I’ve seen of Trump, but gentle in comparison to an Australian journalist quizzing our PM. It was also a wonderful correlation with his father Dr. Norman Swan, a leading Australian ABC medical and science journalist.

[@compo1948]

It's not just him it's the people behind him. America is in serious trouble 😢

[@ardentynekent2099]

Swan's interview was masterful.

[@markrobinowitz8473]

@@LuckyBoyNelson RFK Junior's book about Dr. Fauci praises the idea of injecting ozone, which is similar.

[@cynthiashaw45]

If you are not registered to vote so you can stop Trump in the primary……why not?

[@julianciahaconsulting8663]

Dem voters put a corrupt career politician with dementia in the White House and then turned around and pretended Biden is neither corrupt or is in cognitive decline....its people who do that sort of bullshit that need to be stopped

[@incognitotorpedo42]

In my state, I can't vote in the primary unless I register as a Republican. I could do that, but it would be pointless. Trump can not be stopped in the primary. Not in my state, anyway. God, the Electoral College sucks.

[@bluegypsy632]

​@@incognitotorpedo42 The electoral college is Americas oligarchy.

[@garryb6218]

Majority the people will speak TRUMP 2024

[@totostamopo]

@@garryb6218 With respect, you are probably wrong. You were wrong last time we elected a president. My question to you is this: When he looses again are you going to accept that result? This is the real question.

[@JoanKieffer]

Thank GOD for all the great journalists who have given Americans the real news. Stay strong and keep doing what you do best. GOD BLESS OUR 🇺🇸 AMERICA.

[@adiliareis3631]

Great journalists? Great liars and haters of Trump .

[@mzkarmageddon2]

FSTV- Free Speech TV/ Democracy Now>>> NO Corporate funding 0 Corporate influence 🥂

[@philliplopez8745]

Your GOD had nothing to due with it . Religious people seem to be ignorant to the reality that their god does not hold sway over the general population. Keep your GOD close to your chest , and out of sight because most people do not want to see him , or her , or it .

[@dross24MA]

​@@philliplopez8745 sadly, this attitude towards people's religious beliefs, regardless if they are shared or not, is part of what drives the desperate folks toward men like him.

[@philliplopez8745]

@@dross24MA sadly man has not sufficiently evolved to free himself of myths designed to satisfy it's fear of the unknown . One should be suspicious of any belief that chooses a device used for torture and death for it's symbol ..

[@stillherenow500]

This is how malignant narcissism works. I never would have believed it except that I observed it happening on a job I once had. A co-worker wanted my job. She verbally assaulted me, smeared me behind my back, projected her weaknesses onto me. Wonderful people who were good friends turned on me to be loyal to her despite her obvious lack of skill. Good people changed, actually reversed. Sound familiar? Fortunately, I knew about narcissism from a psychiatrist I had worked with years before. It didn't stop the loss of the job and friendships from being painful, but at least it make it feel less personal. The biggest mistake we made was not listening to the mental health professionals who tried to warn us. That was a bullet we did not dodge.

[@totostamopo]

It's so true that unless you've witnessed narcissistic abuse first hand you have no idea of the damage it does. I'm glad you got out of that toxic environment. You are so correct. But I'd just like to stress, we DID vote him out of office and we will keep him out of office again. He is a paper tiger. He has no more support now than he did last time he lost. We simply have to keep reminding ourselves of this. We beat him once WITHOUT 4 indictments- we'll beat him again. Thanks for the comment.

[@stevem451]

A documentary movie About a narcissistic bully much the same as Trump with a following of blind cult followers is worth watching. "Holy Hell. " It won awards and shows the evolution of a cult leader out of control.

[@marquitaarmstrong399]

Zinger!!!!!!

[@elizabethsohler6516]

Sad thing. One of these people was his niece. Nobody paid attention. Mary Trump for president.

[@douglasansah435]

Thanks God the truth is prevailing 🙏 🙏🙏🙏🙏

[@davedavidson9996]

Nowhere for Republicans to go after Trump except to therapy/rehab

[@adiliareis3631]

You know nothing !

[@lindaflesch7303]

An Intervention

[@harryking917]

I'm sure the Republicans can recover from Donald Trump he's not that damn important he's a scary dream that we all need to wake up from

[@KimCarney]

I just love the way he uses ‘we’ to his cult when talking about what HE is being charged with! His simple minded cult members eat that up with a spoon

[@randibgood]

What they fail to comprehend is that NO ONE is coming for them, unless they have been a walking, one man crime wave.

[@adiliareis3631]

You do the same by listening to propagandists like Jonathan Karl and others like him .

[@poolplayerpoolplayer7430]

@@adiliareis3631 and they believe everything the media tells them from jussie smollet hoax to the christine blasey Ford hoax.

[@thomasbullen5239]

​@@adiliareis3631Boy are you down the rabbit hole! Was that you at a rally wearing all that Trump shit? Musta cost you a fortune in our "bad" economy.

[@ardentynekent2099]

@@adiliareis3631 First we read it, then we think about it. Find good sources of various opinions, then we listen to "propagandists."

[@teresajohansen2589]

Trump shared classified documents to others at Bedminister

[@randibgood]

I will always believe he sold many to the Saudis. Among many countries who wish us harm. I think he still has some.

[@rodneyoneil-kb1xk]

OF. COURSE He DID!!! IF You DIDNT SEE THAT. THEN. I REALLY DONT KNOW WHAT TO SAY ABOUT THAT. OTHER THAN. ARE YOU KIDDING ME???

[@marionwoodard2418]

I admire both of these men. I will never forget when Jonathan Swan did an interview with Trump and Jonathan made him look like the moron he is. He asked Trump some hard question he could not answer and did he look stupid. Since that interview, I have not seen Swan reporting. Happy to see him again. This was a very interesting interview.

[@RobBCactive]

Jonathan made a good podcast series on the Whitehouse coup plot after that. I'm not sure if he wrote a book, but it seemed like he had enough material. Trump being plainly contradicted by the very graph he was citing was scary hilarious.

[@colleenhoward-tabron5359]

Wish I could see that

[@fiwebster9814]

Jonathan Swan confronted Trump with the Covid death stats & Trump couldn't follow what he was saying, kept insisting that America's Covid response looked bad because we did too much *testing*. He was nuts & Swan really handled it perfectly.

[@RobBCactive]

@@colleenhoward-tabron5359 it should still be on YT, it was an Axios interview with Donaldict 2020

[@karenstrain1152]

This is Jonathan KARL😢 interviewing Jonathan Swan

[@kellyberry4173]

Covid got too big- He screamed quit testing! He started losing the presidential race- He screamed stop counting! 😂

[@SampsonSaintBunrd]

He's running to keep out of Jail

[@rodneyoneil-kb1xk]

YUP!!!! PRETTY. FUCKIN. MUCH!!!!!

[@user-fm6wd8xy2o]

If Trump manages to win the presidency, he becomes a useful idiot for Putin, the Saudis, crooked CEOs, and crime bosses. They keep the Trump Organization and Kushner rolling in loans and money that can be laundered through real estate deals. When Trump is out of power, he is less useful to them and the money spigot is turned down to a trickle.

[@spacedoctor9334]

Yeh, but his timing isn’t right. He’s too late.

[@lucyprice1779]

Another TRUTH

[@jodestella2746]

Trump is only about Trump!

[@jay7308]

Somebody needs to write a book “Tired of Whining”

[@davemcneal3193]

What haunts me is that there is a minority yet not insignificant number of "Americans" who want this. Forget politicians, there's no way I can identify with their nepotistic circle-jerking, but I don't even know my own countrymen anymore.

[@SA-ww1ge]

narcissist feed on power, control, domination. It needs an enemy. The dark side of humanity has become very powerful. A lack of character or inner strength -playground bully’s. They’re everywhere now.

[@lindaflesch7303]

Google ... PROJECT 2025!

[@toddsteward1596]

@@lindaflesch7303 and ALSO Agenda 47 Check that out. The two together are the ACTUAL nightmare Kati Britt was talking about.

[@NilsMichaelStridh]

The Commonwealth Club is an absolute treasure of reasonable conversation. Great program!! Two of my favorite journalists in America. BRAVO!!

[@claudecaesar4196]

Just accidentally found this, excellent.

[@nancygibson604]

Enjoying the program

[@joecity9]

The problem is that the best Americans have to find a way to stop letting the worst ones boss them around.

[@annjuurinen6553]

True thing.

[@user-gz2hf3iy3u]

I have watched many videos from Jonathan Karl -- this conversation is the best.

[@astroblue6207]

Maybe but the point is wrong! Because the polls are off! Donald Trump is gonna get creamed!

[@susanukkelberg9163]

What is your definition of "Conservatism"..???!!!... It's changed drastically since Trump came into the scene...

[@victorcelna3028]

@@susanukkelberg9163 He said CONVERSATION. Not conservatism.

[@janetives5470]

No kidding

[@nancygibson604]

Very good

[@Nikabrown2020]

Absolutely terrific interview, thank you very much, Jonathans.

[@phntasy333]

👏👏👏👏👏👏

[@evonaustin9357]

🎉I second that Jonathan!! Great interview!! Thank you for your service to our country!! 🗽🇺🇸💙

[@ardentynekent2099]

And the ever-factual, Jonathan Swan !

[@rogerwilson7971]

this is a fantastic conversation, and a supremely frightening one.

[@lindaflesch7303]

WATCH his rally from last night, it was horrifying. Lots of graphic talk about what he calls "Migrant Crime!"

[@zxy78267]

​@@lindaflesch7303He is terrifying. I don't think he would joke about being a "dictator for one day;" I think he would stay a dictator, and then we've lost our democracy.

[@user-ix8bx6ek3t]

I have been watching American Politics since 2015 and was concerned since then. Now, seeing the progression of former President Trump is making me fearful for the United States and the residents there. Thank you for the great interview and discussion.

[@phntasy333]

Please rememberpresident Biden got over 7 million more votes than 45... if it's a popular vote Biden wins, it's the ridiculous electoral college that's the challenge. Please help us by saying this every day. President Biden will win in 2024. Say it believe it and trust President Biden will win. President Biden came out of retirement to save us from COVID and a dictator! Biden has obliterated all speculations and economic expectations. President Biden for all his good and all his imperfections is a HERO !!!

[@user-jm6od6ss8f]

Im in your o system. My Journalist 💞💖👍

[@user-jm6od6ss8f]

And live life safe because Cuomos know.

[@user-jm6od6ss8f]

Sweetheart. You’re❤ okay". Luv your pod cast👍

[@user-yf8xe8be8n]

We here are fearful also. It’s a long time till November 2024. Anything could happen. I’m fearful right now for Ukraine. We need to pass these bills in the House. I’m fearful for Israel and Gaza. For different reasons.

[@kizuwandawest]

This is was an excellent inside to the mind of donald. Pretty sure I have your first book, Jonathan! I started reading but was terrified and stopped. Thank you for being willing to look whats happening to the country straight in the eye.

[@pokey5736]

Jonathan Karl is a top notch journalist. His delivery is spot on.

[@adiliareis3631]

@@pokey5736 he's a propagandist and you fall for it .

[@pokey5736]

@@adiliareis3631 you are so wrong. That's what happens when you are entrenched in a cult. You are living in an alternate reality. Suggestion, go get help before you go down with the sinking ship that the cult leader is on. Don't say nobody warned me.

[@markbeames7852]

you having a moment of cognitive dissonance @@adiliareis3631 ?

[@theresakohler-ruda1292]

@adiliareis3631 Day one, some people would just prefer to look past the dogma (childhood beliefs) and have a respectful(law abiding)true leader(with morals) have the world stage. It's too much for Donald... pretend gang-sta behavior.

[@sinclairlanier4081]

Thank you, thank you, thank you! Great reminders and great new info for my understanding of what we've lived through.

[@Collector261]

I LOVE that for the last 250 years the Constitution was working fine. BUT NOW all of a sudden, it's ''Poorly Worded.'' "Vaguely Written." , "Uncharted Territory'', and ''Open to a lot of interpretations.'' It that were really true then how the hell were we able to get this far?

[@FetsumBerhaneDire]

It’s called Constitutionalism. Norms and respect for the spirit of the law works better than the actual words, which is impossible to make loophole-free. The success of western democracy is down to the long cultivated democratic culture of the population and the precedents and norms followed by the political class, which is lacking in Africa where strongmen can break anything.

[@rodb4923]

Yes,we need to do some work on the constitution, and donald will be gone some day. If we survive this and keep our democracy we can still fall if we do not clean that politically owned Supreme Court. Some of the court and/spouses need to be in jail. They have more power with their lifetime appointments than any 8 yr president

[@iamanomas]

That is why the two key trials - Jack Smith’s and Georgia’s need to be televised live.

[@vinzenzvega4445]

Maybe state case will be. But it will not start on time.

[@soularddave2]

Your guest filled in a lot of important details & reminded us of more. Thank you.

[@debbylindsay4875]

Every GOP should be given a copy of this book to read as a mandatory task. Thank you for this interview.

[@iluvlafs]

Jon Carl is one of the best reporters/writers on the Trump debacle. I hope we can get through this dangerous time of Trump lunacy.

[@rao4sos]

You both deserve gold medals. Buy more Karl books as stocking stuffers. Do it for me...thanks.

[@lukmaes6290]

I wonder what someone as Mitch MConnell thinks about the monster they created, did one ever ask him?

[@harryking917]

It's alive alive

[@tarabartee3424]

Excellent discussion. I learned a lot. Thank you.

[@John-uq7uu]

It's refreshing to hear intelligent people talking and making sense Tama❤ in this crazy world❤

[@jeanneanderson5077]

To follow Trump around like he did, he must have a really low gag reflex.

[@therichmondburton]

"FEAR AND COMPLACENCY" ....a core toxic combo. Thank you for IDENTIFYING that.

[@mshahnazi7636]

Jonathan Swan is an absolute gem in 2 countries of United States and Australia, and Jonathan Karl is an American Treasure. I was talking with an Australian friend about Jonathan Swan’s interview with the former guy during Covid-19 pandemic and how aggressive and to the point he was during that conversation, and he replied that actually the Australian reporters have toned down their style compared to 40 plus years ago when they absolutely savaged the lying politicians!! I just said Wow, that’s incredible.

[@carolinemaybe]

My 2 favourite Jonathon journo’s together. Yay. Thank you.

[@emmettjones8075]

A second Trump term culminates in a real Coup!

[@jim2376]

January 6, 2021 was a training exercise and a rehearsal for the planned coming coup.

[@nancychandler3673]

When Trump said "Drill drill drill" he wasn't talking about oil. He was telling us that he plans to use the USA Military against those who protest his Fascism.

[@pauljcross2289]

Trump is obsessed by dictators

[@harryking917]

Someone who has such a low opinion of our military should never be the leader of our military

[@monicagakdut6521]

Thank you Adam, you and your colleagues for standing up for our country, I wish everyone stand up and impeach Trump, we would be in a better position

[@denisesargent1440]

Kudos to both brilliant Jonathans! I would love to see more from you two together! 🇺🇸💙🇺🇸

[@parrisprice5892]

I had NEVER voted before 2016. Once dump was elected I could see the disaster in the making and immediately registered independent. 62 year old white male from a heavily republican home and district. My advice? NEVER VOTE REPUBLIKKKAN

[@marysexton4401]

I love both of these Jonathon's. My favorite interview I liked with Trump was with Jonathon Swan during covid and he was calling Trump out on his lies. When Trump had those charts and he couldn't even read them didn't know what he was talking about. Loved the look on Jonathon face and he didn't let Trump say all the stupid stuff and everyone is suppose to let him get away with it and thinking we are stupid. Always loved Jonathon Karl looking forward to reading his book. Hope we can get some interviews with Trump by them . They don't let Trump say his stupid stuff and lies. They call him out.

[@leecuen6379]

This was a very enlightening interview! I was nervous before that he may get another 4 years, but now thinking about the fact that he learned how to work the system and how to get what he wanted, makes me sick to my stomach! There is no talk of policy, no mention of what he plans to do for "US" the people. Instead, it's all about Trump! How can a country of this size let one grifter seize the country and fool so many? It's all mind-boggling, and tragic that so many people trust him and don't see what he really is! Thanks for a great interview and a civilized debate! It must have been VERY difficult putting all of this down on paper. I can't imagine!

[@lindaflesch7303]

PLEASE Google... PROJECT 2025

[@harryking917]

And he calls himself The Chosen One what a joke

[@Icebergwallst]

Did he really think Trump read a book? Someone told Trump he was a bad word 😂

[@gloriawright47]

I was thinking the same thing he didn't read that book somebody told him

[@dross24MA]

Seriously? I believe he either read or listened to a reading of "Mein Kampf" - at least the Cliff notes.

[@bobm2410]

@@dross24MA Don't forget that there's a better-than-even chance that those Hitler-esque words were the brainchildren of Stephen Miller or some like-minded MAGAt, and Trump is just parroting them

[@Tymykal]

⁠@@dross24MA. He claimed he’s never read Mein Kampf but all his wives say he has kept a copy at his bedside.

[@Jay-xw9ll]

Nobody needs to hear the whole disgusting message because we've all heard it before. Mainly in the school playground.

[@rennkay3291]

" Oh, foolish woman: You knew I was a snake before you let me in"

[@rogerdc7279]

Wow ! What an interview ! Yes, we are seeing very important history unfolding in front of our eyes and nobody knows what's next - Anything can come next, and don't forget the instability the world is going throug right now. A very explosive concoction Thank you to both of you for this very good conversation.

[@bobmarshall3700]

As an Australian, I can't believe how Frump still has Americans who are gullible enough to support him, let alone, do his deranged bidding.

[@simonford7806]

Education in the US is not the best

[@AaliyahOKee]

I can’t believe it either

[@kimmccormick5922]

This era is not something that rational Americans feel proud to claim. If right wing Americans would take information from various sources and fact check the reports, we would not be here.

[@onomatopoeia162003]

I understand it. it goes back to the Reconstruction era. Which wasn't finished. Like for example. The "big lie". Which is the 2nd Lost cause. People today or the last few decades word things differently.

[@harryking917]

Thank you for the support brother some of the outside countries no more than some of us Americans

[@kiphenrie2291]

Thank you JK for all your great work and honesty. We need it desperately.

[@patriciafarina3336]

It is your responsibility as a reporter and the media's collective responsibility to make SURE people are getting the ACCURATE information from that trial. It is our responsibility as citizens to look for, and listen to what you tell us as the "person" on the inside, and use common sense and intelligence to determine for ourselves who is giving the reasonable, logical and legitimate information. Unfortunately this is not televised... which would have been optimal. We need reporters in there who will make sure the accurate info is made Widely available.

[@randibgood]

The Georgia RICO trial will be.

[@dennisspurgeon4187]

Neural pruning prevents those who have been “brainwashed” to ever “see” the truth because the behavior has become “normal” to them.

[@crodzilla3432]

Only Stink Pot could ruin a political party. The same guy who couldn’t keep a casino business afloat. Pathetic.

[@pamelalahti2657]

Ex-Republicans, the quiet wave coming.

[@Wendy-gs4qt]

Boy I hope so!?

[@dreamzofhorses]

It’s possible. I left in 2009, so it’s possible, but will it be enough to matter? If they haven’t left by now they most likely won’t leave. But I do hope you’re right. Do you have any evidence to support your claim?

[@onomatopoeia162003]

@@dreamzofhorses I have seen in comments over the last few years. Some left decades ago.

[@nancykeith6390]

Yeah, I’m pretty sure that Trump “not going by the law” is NOT a “what if?”.

[@daveboryszewski130]

It is far past time to Flush This Turd and all the other floaters in the bowl!!

[@mloret6745]

You say that his running for president again because of the drive he felt...however, he actually announced his candidacy because it was the only way he could circumvent going to jail.

[@user-kp1jk5fe4v]

At minute 26, you recall Trump's announcement in Nov 2022 to run for election. You don't mention the primary reason for him announcing at that time: He was convinced that the DOJ was holding off charging him so as not to affect the mid-terms, and that they would now proceed since the mid-terms were over. Trump believed that if he was running, the DOJ couldn't indict him because it would be too political. In fact, by announcing he was running, he gave Merrick Garland the perfect opportunity to appoint a special prosecutor, to avoid all appearance of political influence. So, T****p ended up getting charged anyways, but now it was at arm's length from the DOJ. As usual, he calculated poorly and ended up hurting himself.

[@donnazukadley7300]

It actually helped his campaign. Sadly.

[@vittorianesse]

For one fleeting moment I felt a twinge of sympathy. I shook it off and went back to cutting my onions for dinner.

[@mfblosangeles]

You guys are GOATs. Great discussion, gentlemen. I

[@randibgood]

After all of his derogatory comments about Hispanics, it makes no sense that ANY of that demographic could ever vote for him.

[@janetives5470]

Doesn’t bode well for them.

[@eddieedmunds1442]

I really enjoyed this chit chat Johns (I think your names are spelled differently). As a Kiwi watching from afar it's top of mind that what happens in America affects us all

[@nancyblake1679]

Read Arendt ‘Origins of Totalitarianism’ for the dictator’s playbook. It’s all there, and we are falling for it. His trials are his campaign.

[@ravenbelote1801]

All you have to do is look at Putin, and all he has in his pocket. Also look at China and N. Korea. Its possible for a person to pull this off, and there are those who will line up to help them.

[@johnhalligan3155]

excellent interview and so informative

[@Getmesometv]

The grand old parody was broken beyond repair long before Donald Trump.

[@harryking917]

I'm not a Republican but I think they can recover they need to remove this tragedy from their history

[@shellecapos8574]

It’s the “oranges”, not the origin story.😂. Not so funny when the Covid mortality numbers were North ⬆️of 500,000.

[@seangelarden9543]

The best part is they did it too themselves

[@stratman1192]

The media needs to find a way to fact-check during Trump's rants as he comes out of the trial. In other words, delay the coverage and insert the fact checks after each inaccurate Trump statement. The fact checks could be done by an anonymous nondescript voice that would help to alleviate the appearance of a specific reporter's bias. Due to time constraints, they could then announce the uncut version is available on their websites.

[@marionwoodard2418]

👍👍❤❤

[@healinspaces4u]

Trump supporters don't seem to be influenced by fact checking. I am still trying to figure out what Trump supporters need to hear to save our democracy.??

[@valdi1523]

💯!!

[@pedromaynes5802]

. . . All who serve in highest political positions in our Nation's Government whose primary loyalty must be for the U.S. Constitution and not a particular party or any one individual. These individuals who serve must insure the safety, security and well-being for all the peoples of this Great Nation . . . 😎

[@harryking917]

Amen

[@anthonycbash]

The story that was revealed by both Jonathans concerning how the RNC chief, Ronna McDaninel, called Trump on his last ride on the official Presidential Helicopter to thank him for his work on be half of the GOP and then Trump lashes out and says he’s thinking of quitting the party and forming his own party and she begs him to reconsider as she makes clear that not only will he not win but that the GOP will lose as well, followed by his reply that they deserve to lose because they didn’t muster enough strength to ensure that he remained in office regardless of his historical loss, and then her changing her tone of begging to that of threatening him with withdrawing his access to his main source of income vis the GOPs mailing list and then his eventual caving in to that threat and remaining with the party that he actually hates, wow, that was so very revealing of his true nature! How many of his diehard supporters would hear this story and still follow him is more mind-boggling but what a great thing it would be if there ever were to emerge a recording of this amazing exchange! Thanks to the two Jonathans for this fascinating conversation and be sure that we the public have your back and would stand in between you and the jackboots coming to take you away to Gitmo. The free press is always on the side of the people and if there are media companies that do the bidding of dictators, rest assured that they are not free and that any free thinking individuals have been rooted out and discarded by the dictatorship and its allies. Targeting the journalists who reveal the lies and deception and intimidation of an authoritarian leader or administration is always an objective of a dictatorship. As soon as we hear the words like “the press is the Enemy of the People” we should all know that the speaker harbors authoritarian aspirations and is on the way to forming a dictatorship.

[@catpaladin1]

Since this was uploaded - Mitch McConnell’s wife’s sister found dead under suspicious circumstances, Mitch says he is resigning his leadership role after the election, Mitch now endorses Trump, Trumps daughter in law is head of RNC, Orban visits Mara Lara a few days after Elon Musk does. Bond posts for the first criminal case. Everything delayed by trump appointed judges including Georgia.

[@cherrydragon2024]

You have done an amazing job of selling your book. I can't wait to buy and read it. This is information that I didn't know. Thank you Johnathan Karl!

[@DianeGreer]

more of we the people than Dumps team !!! 🙏💙💪

[@terrys755]

I never thought they were "grand" in the first place

[@tinat.4508]

Just imagine that some people prefer a failed business man, a draft dodging coward, a tv reality figure, a 4 times indicted 91 charged felon.. instead of a man with more than 50y as a civil servant, commended for his diplomacy skills and work across the aisle, a man who shows decency, humility, care and respect!

[@DrNancyLivingCoCreatively]

Psychiatry has said from the beginning jail is the only answer. I suggest a military hospital in a supermax. Medication.

[@andrewdock7288]

Don't be immature.

[@harryking917]

Are San Quentin or maybe the narcissists have his own Island how about key Alcatraz

[@karlahemphill3414]

Have you ever noticed that a good man learns from his mistakes and an evil man learns to be more evil from his mistakes

[@JodiTraver]

Thank you so much for this conversation!

[@Yourdeadmeat69]

DEMOCRACY is a handshake agreement between 335 million people we live under Constitution and rule of law. FUN FACT: "Acting positions" lasts 365 days, skip a day, another 365. And a dictator doesn't give a sh!t so who would care about the "rules".

[@brettandrewbrandon3191]

Two very intelligent and articulate journalists. Thank you. How can anyone seriously consider voting for Trump? It's all completely bananas. And horribly sad, too.

[@jonnizzik1736]

It appears to me, that the GOP is spinning around the bushes of what really needs to be done, now. Instead they engage in theatrics we all learned in grade 4.