Ableton Responds...

[@johnnymidnight2982]

You damn kids! When I was your age, we didn't have tracks, we had dirt roads! I had to walk on dirt roads uphill both ways playing Black Sabbath on my tuba.

[@AFRoSHEENT3ARCMICHAEL69]

We really need to go back to dirt roads. I cant stand the constant construction sites holding up all the busy traffic.

[@mthomas1091]

My older sister always f_cked up my dirt road. It wasn’t an accident. She MEANT to do it 🙄

[@puls3illegalmusic]

@@AFRoSHEENT3ARCMICHAEL69 mud though

[@vitamin3076]

AND WE WERE THANKFUL

[@ibanezlaney]

Sounds like you had shoes. Showoff.

[@Marco-ek8wu]

Next up - Ableton Free. A tin whistle, portable 1 track music device to liberate you from cables and tech.

[@jibberism9910]

Back when I was your age we'd run it out of town. Then again, we ran everything out of town.

[@giulioboobzilla]

is it stereo?

[@Cubebass]

sounds like a pretty expensive collaboration with Teenage Engineering

[@adissart]

Some time ago someone who worked on it said that move was created to get rid of the huge amount of unused parts in the warehouse for push 2, pads, processors, that's why it has so many limitations

[@va941]

The track limit is a major point why a lot of people are not buying it.

[@Marco-ek8wu]

Correct. Sent mine back. Unless you’re spending a shit load of time on the workarounds it doesn’t take long to reach the 4 track limit. Crappy 2019 raspberry pi processor is the limitation. The hardware is pretty decent. Controller mode sucks.

[@johncitizen8828]

Plot twist: Move 2 has only TWO tracks ‘so we can focus on adding even more creative features’.

[@KordTaylor]

Yeah, but plays SAMPLES and everything. 👀

[@Keysounds0]

"It seems like a great way to jam with your rich friends" 😂😂

[@Cubebass]

bro I still use my Korg Electribe 2 and it has way more than 8 tracks and it came out in what? 2014????? jeez

[@dzaxys4643]

I was an early adopter of the es1 and the emx1 and I would definitely buy them again today they definitely still sound great id buy a move maybe if it was priced around 150/200 but any more and there's other options like a pc or a used electribe

[@slagseed8986]

Still use mine too. The sample time on it is a joke.

[@joshmcali.sk8]

I get it, but they should have at least made it affordable if it’s just an idea starter with 4 tracks. Like 1 to 2 hundred dollars max

[@kwesijohnson1411]

Its just really weird priority. On some level 400 seems actually extremely good for the functionality and sophistication. When I saw the first demos I was expecting more like 600-800 dollar for sure. But then the weird 4 track limit just ruins it and makes it not worth it. They should just discard their idiotic philosophy, add a cpu-meter, let people have 8 tracks, and make it their problem if they use too much stuff. Its just a workflow thing, 4 tracks is just annoying to work with, even if you arent overcrowding stuff at all.

[@drk_fi]

It's a hipster gadget. Its for people that like jumping on the idea of new products that actually don't enhance their workflow. Yeah, it helps getting ideas out and so does opening Ableton Live and actually doing something. This is just a setback device

[@Kevinschart]

If it's not a DAW in a box it's a toy. But some people literally don't care about making music, they just like turning knobs

[@infektdubstep]

the 4 track limit is not a problem for me. it's meant as a sketching device, not for making full tracks

[@notsure1135]

Yeah, but an iPad with Korg Gadget is also a sketchpad and is way better value.

[@fynnli6685]

@@notsure1135 ok so get that then

[@notsure1135]

@ I don’t need to buy it twice…

[@TunaIRL]

​@@notsure1135 So, everyone will do that, no one will buy this and Ableton will make something different. Surely, right?

[@nrosko]

@@notsure1135 Yes but ipad is not anywhere near like have a dedicated hw device. I use my Move way more than any other hardware i own.

[@sammadden5540]

The responce should be "that's what a push 3 standalone is for"

[@LonChera-1]

Better than anything teenage engineering does

[@buckycore]

Dude, the fact that new korg nano thing for $119 bucks has chord mode should tell Abelton something

[@shinyisshiny7780]

the two arent even comparable. One is a midi controller, one is a groovebox, with built in mic and speakers. But yah, regardless, chord mode would be nice, although i wouldnt really ever use it haha.

[@joechapman8208]

@@shinyisshiny7780 The point is that Chord Mode so basic that it's expected to be a standard feature now. It's extremely rare for a MIDI controller to lack the function (in fact, has *any* new MIDI controller of recent years not had it?)

[@ifiwantyoutofeel]

Idk why anyone would buy this, just seems like a waste of time, if you want to go dawless you have to get a push 3 or akai setup

[@rez9159]

@@ifiwantyoutofeel Its not about DAWless at all, it is about having a sketchpad wherever you are. The Push 3 Standalone is four times the weight. Personally i prefer the Note app for that, because it is always where i am and can connect with a wireless MIDI Controller that gives you pretty much of the note experience + more visual feedback.

[@joechapman8208]

@@ifiwantyoutofeel Definitely many, many better ways to spend ~£400 (Polyend Play or Polyend Synth spring immediately to mind)

[@cl1xor]

Dunno, i’m a bit with ableton on this. Move is a sketchpad and 64 samples and 3 other tracks is enough for that purpose.

[@tastelesstouch]

4 tracks from an Ableton device implies being able to use Ableton’s built in synths but this is just a very limited sampler lol. If I’m having to resample all of my stuff I better have more than 4 tracks wtf lol

[@RemeSmokesaplenty]

If I’m on the go, it’s just a laptop + launchpad. It’s hard to beat a 14 inch screen, full daw, 8 octaves, and fits in my lap

[@matthewgaines10]

It’s Ableton Note in hardware. What do you expect? Note was inadequate so don’t be surprised that Move is equally inadequate. MPC isn’t just sample based by the way. I’d rather just bring an iPad along with Cubasis for composition on the go.

[@SlavaChrome]

But in Note you have more than 4 tracks

[@EmilyTestAccount]

they'll increase the track count by releasing the "Move 5" which has 5 rows of buttons and 5 tracks and then abandon the product line entirely

[@vertigev]

4 tracks is fine for me. I have a few grooveboxes (Deluge, Circuit, Woovebox) and this one is what i usually reach for. Really digging the device so far.

[@Drrolfski]

Push 3 is definitely too bulky for most mobile use cases. It turns out that even my smaller-sized MPC Live 2, which is purposely built for mobility, is often too bulky. The Move's form factor however turns out to be perfect for mobile use for me. The fact that it fits in every bag makes all the difference. Compared to an MPC you only get like 20% functionality of course but it makes up for that with a better workflow. That's why I like them both: MPC for more focused & complete track design, Move for more in-and-out idea generation.

[@nrosko]

I have a Move, I honestly do not need more tracks. The main issue for me is the sample editing but i'm getting a lot of use out of it. Comparing it to ipad apps is just apples & oranges.

[@CarlitoProductions]

Ableton realizing they screwed up, refusing to address and blame or push it elsewhere. It's kinda showing their big corporate energy disguised as hipster aesthetics

[@joechapman8208]

I have to respect Ableton's marketing tbh. I saw their rep from this video appearing on various channels when it launched and he was always stressing that Move is quite limited, specifically pointing out what it can't do and that it's not suitable for all kinds of composers. I shouldn't be praising someone for speaking baseline truth, but I'm glad they weren't going off with "the limitless potential of a groundbreaking tool that's going revolutionise your music-making" and so on. The problem was Ableton fanatics insisting that it's "definitely" going to get x, y and z in the future, no matter how much anyone told them you should only pay for the product as it stands on that day.

[@sonikmystique]

Ableton: If you want 8 tracks you can always buy another one!

[@sonikmystique]

to be fair it's just a sketchpad

[@memecoinmafia2732]

@@sonikmystique no it's a scam

[@sonikmystique]

@@memecoinmafia2732 I understand the value proposition is kinda wack. Question tho, did they make a claim about their product that turned out to be false?

[@memecoinmafia2732]

@@sonikmystique probably not i just think that thing is a rip off

[@JBWozEre96]

Tbf it's just shit ​@@sonikmystique

[@memecoinmafia2732]

'jam with your rich friends' 🤣

[@olleyollet]

its good to know that they had fun with it at the office with 4 tracks and thats why they decided to bring it into production. glorified paperweight. most people dont even use their pushes. the keyboard is kinda lit still

[@efferingo]

the thing is this is a sketch pad, not an all-in-one box to produce your whole album on. For me personally, when I want to focus on writing music and not producing, 4 tracks are enough. most of the time when I'm sketching ideas I only use one drum track and one synth in which i can do both the bass and my lead part. But I understand that might not be ideal for everyone. On the other hand I agree with it being too expensive for what it does, but I would lower the price rather than add extra tracks.

[@impietas5011]

Ending got me 😭

[@shinyisshiny7780]

its honestly a great device. i wouldnt mind more than 4 tracks, but the "16 pitches" mode on the sampler really does give you more tracks in a way. Its a really fun and quick workflow. The midi capture makes it very easy to have a beat up and running in a minute. The people who say "i could just use my laptop and a controller if i want to be mobile", dont really get it. You dont have to plug anything in, you dont have to click a mouse or use a keyboard, its just turn it on and go. The lack of a real screen means no menu diving, keeping things even more simple. Everything is right there, or a shift click away. It may not be for everyone, but i think people are too quick to write it off. One more plus is the cloud, which syncs with ableton and that you can access from within ableton's browser. You dont have to export the project or stems, you dont even have to have the move on, you just open ableton, and there is your project, complete with scense, clips, automation, presets, samples etc.

[@GrayGhostDog1]

The Push 3 Standalone is solid and surprisingly heavy! I take the Move out and about way more than I carried around my MPC Live II or a laptop. The Push 3 Standalone stays on the desk 90% of the time.

[@fritsvanzanten3573]

I though it was called Move, so you could use it 'on the move'. It's like me complaining I took my LPK25 in my backpack in the train and started complaining why it doesn't have 61 keys. You're on the move, you're traveling light. Creativity means working within limitations (although these days it seems to means extending your gear, the amount of plugins you purchase and multiplying the number of tracks you use).

[@guacamole7496]

It's kind of a bad analogy because every little travel MIDI keyboard has buttons to switch octaves. So you can essentially access the whole range of a full sized keyboard, just not simultaneously. So why not have a second set of 4 tracks you can access via a button? Still fairly limited but would be a decent compromise.

[@owizlo]

you can resample the synths to a pad. or you play any instrument you own into a pad. that's how that first demo was done . recording bass and guitar and hardware synths straight in works pretty well.

[@tastelesstouch]

That’s pretty innovative! Too bad you could do the exact thing on an old iPhone running GarageBand and have as many tracks as you want. If you could use Live’s built-in synths then that’s one thing but this just a very limited sampler lol

[@marklholloway]

Many of the missing features were on the original roadmap 2 years ago before Ableton’s major layoffs. Most of the remaining engineers were told to prioritize Push 3, with little resources working on Move. They have always known the public was going to ask for these features. The engineers themselves told Ableton leadership it wouldn’t make sense to release Move without these capabilities and people are going to gripe and ask for them. Ableton needed to get the product launched regardless, and add the delayed roadmap features after its release.

[@collapsingruins]

They play the same game as the camera industry does: Never give the user what they want. Reduce new Gear of a limit, so that you can still somehow catchy talk your way out and release a MKII and MKII version, which then contains the features that should have been in the first version, so you can claim: You would have listened to the ‘User Base’ and would have implemented what ‘the user’ (Ergo Beta Tester) wants. It's sneaky as heck. There a controllers outhere that are 15 years old that can do all what this BS controller is integrated better. Shame on Ableton to go this road, but we are on a point, where no real innovation can be done, as it seems.

[@vjmcgovern]

I don’t get what makes Move special. Does MPC have something like Move but with 8 tracks?

[@buckycore]

Exactly. Plus like...MPC

[@theblackdepths7322]

There's rumors they might release an MPC mini

[@unknownfilmmaker777]

What is this four track nonsense in 2024 AD?

[@amp4105]

Flyinglotus im getting bingo today 😂😂

[@BigPlasticPlant]

Oh come on now, the original OP1 was selling for £1300, 4 tracks, really really limited project management and no undo…. The move is £399, it does a lot for that price tag.

[@Weaverbeats]

Comparing it to teenage engineering is kind of crazy though is it not? They overcharge for everything.

[@BigPlasticPlant]

@ They absolutely overcharge, I agree, but the Move is around the same price as the Roland Boutique series gear, and it does way more. As far as being an affordable sketch pad for multi track projects I think it has a far more justifiable home on the market than the OP1 etc.

[@onetwentyeight]

i feel like its more comparable to a polyend tracker that has 8 sample tracks and 4 midi. Theyre going for around $300-350, or the tracker+ which has 8 sample tracks + 8 midi/synth tracks at $600

[@morecowbell2611]

@@Weaverbeatsso you’re saying Ableton doesn’t overcharge for Move?

[@morecowbell2611]

Teenage selling OP-XY for 2300 dollars but sure, Ableton Move is for the rich kids. Get outta here man, geeeeez

[@davidb3265]

They don’t want to increase the number of tracks because they want you to transfer the song over to Abletok Live to finish it. They still want to direct people to the program, and don’t want anybody to buy this and never buy Live. They want people to buy this then switch or buy Live as well

[@LonChera-1]

Is not a full replacement to PUSH or Live. This is to get an idea started. People are crazy wild with their expectations

[@tripleeight5608]

For this price? Are you okay?

[@lucid484]

@@tripleeight5608 Dude, it's only $450....That's like a day or twos worth of pay for many people.

[@kiwiladi]

@@tripleeight5608nigga dont buy it tf? Why do people feel so entitled to products. If it’s too high, dont buy it.

[@FreeBeat]

Exactly. For some reason people just cannot wrap their heads around what the Move actually is for lol.

[@lucid484]

@@tripleeight5608 The price isn't that high...It's maybe two days salary for most people....

[@synthseeker]

Move is a sketchpad that is meant to let you start musical ideas...and that intent (which makes sense for company selling the Push and a desktop DAW) is to make it easy to start things and then easy to move them to their other product platforms to finish / expand on those ideas. It drives people into adopting the Ableton environment. Seems clear to me.

[@Kris_jellybeard]

Love the move ;-) Good when traveling + as a controler you have way more than 4 tracks

[@bramsanjanssan4908]

Maybe they think about the product in context of artists having a whole studio full of gear. The reality is that most people don't have money to buy all these different boxes and are looking for a product that can do a lot for a good price and those people need all the tracks they can get.

[@mysteriousstranger9496]

Idk what it is with ableton... they have the lions share of cutting edge producers using their software and yet their demo music selections are always cringey trash that sounds like the work of someone just getting in to producing.

[@kwesijohnson1411]

Haha, for sure! I have always puzzled over this too. I dont think its just carelessness, its some part of their weird philosophy, they just want the demos to sound like some unexciting corporate muzak for some reason.

[@maikvanrossum]

@@mysteriousstranger9496 well, that would make a +1 for those cutting edge producers, still recognizing the strengths of the Live ecosystem… 😉

[@chambre466]

in Move defense, a classic rock band has 4 members, and as long as it runs drum racks it s ok. I get that

[@iamsimonmorris]

Hey WEAVER, whats the thing on top of the cupbard in the backgroud?... SPOILER 2027 the Ableton 'Push+' 8 track Groove Box.

[@Kevinschart]

My suspicion is that they cut the development budget because they weren't sure if the thing would sell. If they make a second version they will beef up the features based on the criticism

[@LazyCloud9]

Got that apple product price and limited features among its peers. 450 for a 4 bank drum program is insane.

[@FatalFriction]

Actually kinda makes sense to me. Push 3 stand alone does everything and the cost is going to be way too much for some people. Ableton move is a much more accessible price point. They could in move 2 double the the CPU power but then you would be paying more for it. I imagine that the code for the native instruments are the same as for the live software and so while optimized they haven't been optimised from the ground up so probably need a lot to run. I think there main concern was keeping latency low. What might be a good idea would be to allow a "power user mode" setting, giving the user access to allow to reduce optimisations, where you could forgo "snapiness" / latency in order to allow additional tracks

[@DJDiskmachine]

I'm not necessarily a huge fan of buying a thing that you could do a lot easier in a pc/DAW setting but seeing the 4channel limit I get a little bit more interested. I've made some of my best songs on LSDJ, where the 4channel limit is very definite. I feel like this thing should inspire you to work with the limitations instead of just wishing you had a laptop with knobs.

[@lucid484]

I don't understand why the 4 track limit is a big deal? It's a smaller more portable unit. Want something bigger get live standalone.

[@xdendordx]

The Yamaha Seqtrack has 11 tracks (7 drums, 3 synths n 1 sample track) and costs half as much as the move - what a great fuckin' sales pitch "if you don't like it don't buy it" ISNT THE POINT OF A PRODUCT TO ENTICE PEOPLE TO BUY IT?

[@TunaIRL]

​​@@xdendordx You're missing the fact that not every product is supposed to be for YOU. So yes, if YOU don't like it, don't buy it. The people who like it will buy it. If enough people like it, it'll continue being a thing. If no one likes it, people probably won't buy it, and they might make something different. Why do you care whether Ableton sells these?

[@kamael1125]

8 tracks - I would buy it 6 tracks - I would consider buying it vs other gear I'm thinking about 4 tracks - hell no.

[@katiebarber407]

a kick, a snare, a hi hat, and a clap. what more do you need?

[@maikvanrossum]

And, how many tracks would that need…?

[@katiebarber407]

@maikvanrossum 4!

[@phatplates]

Organs, pianos, guitars, etc.

[@maikvanrossum]

@@katiebarber407 this… those tracks are ‘instrument tracks’, which differs from standard MIDI or Audio tracks. Those 4 sounds could be loaded (next to more percussive elements) as part of a ‘drum rack‘. This would take 1 track, not all 4, to play and record your rhythm parts.

[@katiebarber407]

@@maikvanrossum oh. i use fl studio and have unlimited tracks so i have no idea how any of that works

[@anythingsimple1125]

My first thoughts were. Why would they basically say “we could implement those features” But we didn’t or we will if we feel like it. Also the examples used only further proves the point that 4 tracks is a genuine limitation Either it’s loop based or it’s just 4 sounds. And with Ableton lending itself more to the electronic and performance world it is weird.

[@BIONDIEST]

My rich friends and I are jamming so hard right now!. Then I woke up.

[@spenzasequenza]

Classic tierification. They clearly want you to buy the bigger, more expensive box. They should have called it pish demo. If you want more than 4 tracks, give us more money. Simple

[@jodagold5481]

They should have cut push 3 in half and the price with it - sorted !

[@owlmuso]

6 tracks minimum. Abletons always gotta shoot themselves in the foot because they believe they are smarter than their customers. Their arrogance is overwhelming

[@Lofyne]

If you look at a band like Khruangbin who do a great live show, they have drums, bass, guitar, and sometimes vocals. That’s 4 tracks.

[@effext1]

Definitely the price point that’s causing all the negativity. I get that they see it as a sketch pad and I’m sure it’s well built. I think that at the price that it is, the software should be closer to Live Intro than the Note app. Have it more of a Push Standalone Lite but if they did that they would definitely need to include at least Live Standard with the Push 3. That being said, people can easily get a small midi pad controller with some encoders to use with the Note app and you basically have everything that Move does.

[@prod.SaintBySix]

Flying Lotus mention? Take a drink

[@someonespecial4202]

i bought a Korg Electribe EMX-1 in 2022 for $400 and it has 7 drum tracks and 5 synth tracks

[@brendanwilliamson8803]

This toy is just fun, I think people are missing the point, it’s a sketch pad meant to start ideas, not a push replacement. It sounds great, it needs some software updates, but I’m happy with this, I wish I didn’t buy push 3 standalone though, haha.

[@brendanwilliamson8803]

I wouldn’t buy it if you’re not an Ableton user, because you can’t finish a song on this thing.

[@D-One]

Only 4 track but Audio based workflow is OK because drum racks can have loads of samples, then it's more of a sampler... but you cannot slice easily.. ok so it's not... iConfused.

[@robnzombiz]

I would have bought the move only because of their response if they literally have said FU …

[@Fl4ppers]

They were deleting comments on their facebook page over this 😂

[@gavinpeters9531]

If it had more tracks, people would just be bitching that it didn't have enough automation visualisation, effects chaining, HD screen, subpak, etc. etc. I bought it for the fact that it is dumb and simple, because I suffer from intense choice paralysis/geekery. I never planned to finish tracks on it. It's a way to get out of my dingey spare room/junk room/spare bedroom/"studio" and be inspired. For this it performs admirably. I don't get stuck thinking about shit (or browsing the internet eheh). I was glad to hear the MIDI was just rushed to release though... as that is absolute second rate garbage currently. FWIW the discord is fine so far. Give it a few more weeks.

[@Milan____]

I mean I like the idea of 4 tracks, gives me the vibe of being absolutely lost in Fast Tracker II when I was like 12 years old, but nowadays... I guess it would be cool if 3 tracks could be Phase Plant and 1 would be Reason Rack. Although idk, the price is reasonable, just not what I want. Polyend Synth tho... tempting.

[@Frikoppie-q2v]

That 11 bit sound you could easily get without bothering with Ableton. A korg volca 2 sampler is like, $80 where I'm at. Shit sorry, a sampler 2.

[@tastelesstouch]

I honestly feel like this is a symptom of a much larger problem with the music production/synthesizer market in general. Prior to the 2000s you had equipment that was impressive but prohibitively expensive. Now we have more affordable gear but the capabilities of the gear reflect those low price points. There are things that I think companies cheap out on like Roland limited number of patch storage on a lot of their synths (e.g. system 1, boutiques, etc.). There’s a lot of fun affordable synths out there for beginners but it’s gets weird for intermediate musicians because you have to make a jump from beginner friendly mono synths with basic sequencing and modulation options to powerhouse workstation synths with a little too much complexity. There’s not a whole lot of intermediate synths for people who are experienced enough to need more capabilities but don’t have 2-3 grand to throw down on the full size version of the synth with all of the features.

[@therealzyrix]

I would honestly be fine with 4 tracks if we also could do 4 midi tracks where you could sequence external gear. There is no way you can convince me midi uses much cpu :-/

[@threatnique]

still can't customise keyboard shortcuts ..... ?

[@Henrychamber-r8w]

Feels like it's a 2007 device or some shit tbh

[@Tripwelleverday]

8 tracks minimum that’s wild but if they got like parameter locks or parameter steps instrument per step

[@simonsherbourne]

I noticed he quite carefully says they won’t add more “instrument tracks”…leaving it open for audio or MIDI tracks?

[@kwesijohnson1411]

Yeah, that would be nice! If the cpu cant handle 8 synths, fair enough. But to weirdly limit your tracks even for zero-cpu sample stuff just seems like a stupid irrational imposition.

[@Jaysmokeofficial]

I have ableton live 12 lite i have a huge problem that says throw audio effects into an audio track when i throw a vst INSTRUMENT into the blank space to the right ableton says i must buy standart to get support and then maybe they can fix it im letting everybody know how they treat their possible customers i was excited to buy standart soon after the way they treated me i dont wanna know anything else about ableton my advice buy reason or fl studio those companies care about their clients unlike ableton

[@jukkauh]

It's very simple. The microcontroller they picked for the Move likely isn't fast enough to support more than four tracks. So once they made that decision they were locked in. The response video is just an elaborate justifcation after the fact: why not just call a spade a spade?

[@kwesijohnson1411]

I dont think so all in all. The cpu limit is a factor for sure, but then they build an annoying philosophy around it that just doesnt make for good workflow. They should just add an cpu meter and let people figure it out if they overstretch it. Their philosophy is basically: You get 4 tracks and then you can use as much as you want within that. But thats just against how people are used to working. People are like: I just want to do this shaker track, put a phaser on it and move on to the next layer. Minimal cpu usage, and I am sure the hardware would allow for it, but their weird philosophy goes against allowing that. I am sure you could work decently with this if you adjust yourself with it, but it just feels like being forced into some paradigma for no good reason.

[@maikvanrossum]

@@jukkauh your statement is based on what exactly…? The Move offers 4 so-called ‘instrument tracks’. They could easily integrate more MIDI tracks / event lanes, but they choose to build their concept around flexible instruments tracks, which perfectly fits with their Clips view in Live. Based on their ‘response video’, which is overly criticized here, the chip isn’t the limitation, buy they have other plans for it.

[@maikvanrossum]

@@kwesijohnson1411 do you remember when Live was introduced? It contained that very strange and annoying Clips View… great for audio loops, but it sucked for MIDI. We were used to Protools, Cubase, Cakewalk, etc. all using separate audio- and MIDI tracks with parts and (ghost) copies. Ableton based there DAW for live performance on a different vision and philosophy. And look where they are now.

[@Frikoppie-q2v]

I like the part where he says "In the hands of autists...". Classic Jew reasoning. "You can go a hat with it".

[@dc9662]

I don't want to use Live or Push. Guess I'll just buy something else.

[@watercolourmark]

I think they are allowed to make a product with four tracks without the entitled peeing their pants. They have a standalone device with unlimited tracks, other companies and products exist. Or you could stop peeing your pants and get proactive, and develop the device that you want for yourself, rather than expect others to jump through hoops while you don't turn up. Let's face it, are you ever going to be happy? Isn't this the mode of operation?

[@chrisconnelly6742]

This place is probably filled with toxicity and weird stuff... i better join.

[@arkheimra]

I get your gripes, but honestly this sold me on it. With all the overpriced crap coming out this thing is a breath of fresh air

[@waterdripsmusic]

Protracker 3.15 on Amiga. 8 bit sound. 32 samples. 22kHz. It had its vibe. But maaann why noot 16 tracks... I know cpu blahblah :)

[@brzi4459]

bro i just want render in place

[@hftl412]

Its FR just a wayyy limited Maschine Micro.... Its FR just the Akai Fire mapped for Ableton. Granted it's standalone but still

[@jasonmousseau]

Ableton should now buy T. E. - it's a match made in feature and economic hell.

[@prokopioskoukoulakis1926]

Ableton needs to fix the high cpu usage issues.

[@kingof9x]

The push 3 is not very mobile. I travel for work with a big 16 inch laptop and the push 3 way bugger. Its too big to fit in any carry on bag I own.

[@KingOfAceZ1]

This might be a hair controversial but just because we can sit here and say "oh come on it's just ONE or TWO tracks it's not THAT much" doesn't actually change the technical reality of the situation. If the move's CPU is almost pinned at 100% with 4 tracks, adding even one extra track *will* create issues. I don't think people are realizing that 4->8 tracks means DOUBLING the tracks, and so doubling the CPU requirement as well. It's pretty obvious that they don't even have enough headroom for this. People who bought the move and are now expecting some *magical* software update that DOUBLES the computational capacity of the device are honestly out of their minds. This is literally the "download more ram" meme except people are wishing for that unironically right now. Like cmon people, we produce music in Ableton, we know how much additional CPU usage can be incurred by a single track. They're not gonna be able to fix this w/o releasing upgraded hardware, which WOULD be more expensive (today, at least). It sucks that the hardware is not strong enough but the Ableton team cannot produce miracles. I think a version 2 with a more powerful board would be but great but as it stands, it's not that they're "lazy"; it's not that they just "didn't think about it". They made a commitment to the HW they're using and it's limited; some exec probably pushed the idea even if engineers didn't like it.

[@LazyCloud9]

From my limited research, I believe the move has a better CPU and mhz than MPC one. And they have the same amount of ram. What are you talking about?

[@kwesijohnson1411]

no, exactly not. you can use a lot of cpu in a track or very, very little. the way they deal with it is just forcing people into some arbitrary paradigm, that correctly annoys a lot of people who would otherwise love the device. They should just add a cpu meter and let people figure it out for themselves.

[@KingOfAceZ1]

@ They’re not running the same software. I’m not going to sit here and pretend that I know how the CPU is utilized between the two of them, what the story is as far as multicore utilization goes, etc. Here’s what we can surmise: the fact that projects on move are portable to the full version of ableton *may* suggest that the software stack it’s running is also similar. Instead of thinking about running the MPC One’s software stack on the moves CPU, it’s probably closer to approximate running the *desktop* version of ableton on that CPU. And once again, depending on the specs, you can make a single track eat up a lot of CPU on a desktop if you’re using a lot of unison, reverb, etc. This is not some big conspiracy against everyone. If they’re resisting adding more tracks the way they are, it’s probably because they can not do it. They’re not doing this just to troll everyone.

[@KingOfAceZ1]

@@kwesijohnson1411 Indeed a track can take a variable amount of CPU but have you actually measured the *average* per-track utilization on the move? If the CPU is getting close to being pinned even on a workload that would normally be considered ‘easy’ then adding more is a recipe for disaster. People will try to use their 5th or 6th track and get slammed almost 100% of the time with artifacts and cutouts. And then normies who just wanted a groove box will be like “WTF why doesn’t this work” and it’ll be hard to explain the answer. The outcome would be the same, a 4 track *effective* limit, except instead of polishing it for a 4 track workflow, you’d get extra tracks you can’t actually do anything with. There’s a saying that’s applicable here: It’s better to never be given something at all, then to given something and then have it taken away. People have this *hope* that if the limit is removed then everything will go well. There’s just no actual evidence for this, and seemingly strong evidence to the contrary.

[@kwesijohnson1411]

@KingOfAceZ1 Yeah, thats just explaining the ableton philosophy that I am criticizing. I dont think your normie argument holds water. As said, just add a blinking red cpu meter and people will get it. Its also just a patronizing limitation. Why not just add an "idiot normie" mode for the people who want it and limit it to 4 tracks in that? Mostly I am just expressing my preference. I would just feel arbitrarily limited by this, in a way that makes no rational sense: In my musical intuition 4-8 tracks is just what you need for a track to feel properly "full", and if I am a bit limited in the effects and synths I can use on those tracks, so be it! I would rather just use some cheap synth/sampler for an additional track, than not have the option to add one at all. It just makes no sense to impose this limit on me, if I am perfectly happy to deal with the cpu limit myself by just using more modest instruments/effects. Its just a bit of a dissapointment, it really seems like the perfect groovebox that I would be really happy with for that price, but they are ruining it with their weird philosophy.

[@byrdman6752]

So don’t buy it! Simple

[@brendnbrendn]

Isn’t the hardware for this actually powered by a Raspberry Pi? Pretty limiting if true

[@sodiumlights]

It's basically a gateway product.

[@Rhekluse]

Man, that’s some pretty bad demoing. Wish these companies would start hiring artists to show off their products. This was super uninspiring.

[@TheArtosan]

If they give what they want, they are out of buisiness.

[@TheAlburp]

Massive Reaper here

[@djjuno106]

Novation circuit only has 4 tracks and that's was very successful..I think Ableton released this for people too get ideas whilst outside but then finish the song at home. If your using samples then 4 tracks is easily enough but 4 is the bare basics if using the synths but still enough for an idea.

[@yago8672]

move your money to our account

[@marcosrotllan]

Software and crappy hardware controllers is making a lot of people to sell everything and just buy music and Djiing with a cheap controller

[@Xmies23]

What’s wrong with 4 tracks? It’s enough

[@TonyThomas10000]

They are not going to cannibalize the market for Push.

[@collapsingruins]

They play the same game as the camera industry does: Never give the user what they want. Reduce new Gear of a limit, so that you can still somehow catchy talk your way out and release a MKII and MKII version, which then contains the features that should have been in the first version, so you can claim: You would have listened to the ‘User Base’ and would have implemented what ‘the user’ (Ergo Beta Tester) wants. It's sneaky as heck. There a controllers outhere that are 15 years old that can do all what this BS controller is integrated better. Shame on Ableton to go this road, but we are on a point, where no real innovation can be done, as it seems.

[@LPjank015]

Just buy a Push. Or a used Novation Circuit (They are hella afordable).