Ableton Vs Bitwig: Do I Regret Switching?

[@maurycy_gnc]

It just seem to me like Bitwig people learned from Ableton, FL, Reason, took the good stuff, smashed it together, expanded on it and made something really powerful and fun to use

[@Alckemy]

You’re not wrong! The original creators of ableton are the ones who made bitwig

[@kudziisuuASMR]

@@Alckemy I 100% agree with Michal on this one, I feel like this DAW almost is the "hey I kind of want a daw like Reaper, FL, Reaper" and bitwig does just that, I'm gonna try to learn Bitwig cause I love FL-Studio but for years I've wanted to change to something much less cluttered, on a full track my entire screen is covered up on FLstudio with all sorts of plugins, vst's master tracks piano rolls, it just gets so cluttered and there is so many things you need to click through.

[@generalawareness101]

@@kudziisuuASMR I gave up on Bitwig after I found it can't really do a feedback loop, I asked around and was told no. I have a project in Ableton I loaded into Bitwig and the routing killed the feedback loop. When I was messing around with Bitwig a couple of weeks back I was close to doing a real feedback loop and a popup box told me it was disabling it because of a feedback loop. I gave up after that.

[@kudziisuuASMR]

@@generalawareness101 I’m gonna be honest I have no idea what a feedback loop is, can you explain? Is it a feature that daws have? Just trying to find out if it’s something I actually need or not and may be using without knowing

[@vidarhjal]

They surely did not consider the amazin piano roll of FL Studio

[@NickMcC]

I've been a long-time Logic Pro user for composition and Pro Tools user vocationally as an audio engineer. I'm moving out of Logic Pro for composition for concerns of stability. Looking into Ableton and Bitwig and have spent a lot of time in both their respective trial periods. I have a huge collection of third party instruments and plugins, so I'm mostly concerned about how the DAW works and less worried about its stock devices. I started with Ableton and was initially impressed by its musician-forward approach. I love that the trial is 90 (!!!!) days long. Plenty of time to make a bunch of content and really get a feel for it. But then I tried Bitwig on a whim and have been absolutely blown away -- esp by the little creature comforts. Ableton is amazing, but it's lacking some things that seem pretty basic: a progress bar when loading live sets, the ability to see all signal chains in a mixer window, the ability to deactivate plugins, and negative bar numbers, just to name a few. You can tell that the Bitwig devs love what Ableton aims to do, but have taken the ideas to new levels. I have no bad blood for Ableton and will probably end up buying both since both are such great tools. But I think Bitwig is the one for me. The audio sandbox functionality is downright other-wordly. A centralized notification center? Um YES (looking at you PT.) When it started scanning my VSTs, noticed one was taking too long, and prompted me that I probably had to respond to an iLok prompt, I think my heart grew 3 times its size Grinch style. SO much to love. My only real gripe is that I don't love how it looks. IMHO it just doesn't look like a professional product yet. But holy cow am I sold on the functionality. And with how vocal the BW community seems to be about GUI customization, I'm sure they'll offer some sort of visual options soon. Not to mention that Pro Tools, the "industry standard", looks like something between WIndows 98 and a fuel pump menu. So Bitwig is already miles ahead there. :)

[@billbradleymusic]

I've been playing around with Ableton and bitwig. I'll stick with mixcraft pro. If you have not heard of it you might check it out. It's from a company called acoustica from California.

[@JayaLove]

Very cool info here.. so you're saying after using both Logic and ProTools that you like the audio recording functionality of Bitwig? That's the thing I'm most concerned about since it's mostly EDM producers who use it.

[@NickMcC]

@@JayaLove Bitwig has never been a problem with recording audio for me. If I'm tracking complicated sessions, Pro Tools is still the king in my book. But for my personal production projects, I've no complaints at all. At least not with my workflow.

[@JayaLove]

@@NickMcC Awesome! Thanks for the lightning fast reply.... If I'm a noob and mostly working dawless with acoustic instruments, synthesizers, external effects, and multi-track recording mixer, do you think Logic would be easier? I like the appeal of Bitwig as the latest and greatest, clips-based, and the grid seems cool... but maybe it's more than I need? My goal is to complete things rather than endlessly play or be stuck in learning curve land. My music is ambient with sound healing instruments and vocals. I might at some point want to add some mild electronic beats for a juicy downtempo vibe... I'm not there yet though, and also might just collab with a proper producer for that.

[@NickMcC]

@@JayaLove Logic is a great place to start on this as well. I'm not sure I'd say it's easier in every respect, but it's perfectly approachable. And the value is incredible -- a fully-featured DAW with a huge library of instruments/sounds/plugins for less money than so many of the competitors, Bitwig included. Logic was my first love, so I have no problem recommending it. If you'd be interested, I could do a video comparing the two.

[@KnzoVortex]

21:33 On the Grid vs Max4Live I'd say the fundamental difference between M4L and the Grid is that the Grid is built to be fluid and unobtrusive to your workflow, kinda like a eurorack setup but even faster and more optimized, whereas M4L is more of an "instrument/effect programming language" where anyone can take the time to perfectly program a custom instrument for Ableton from scratch. This is super cool of course as it's basically an ever-expanding feature which the Grid simply can't replicate, but on the flipside, you're never gonna open the M4L editor in the middle of a production session as you might as well begin programming a synthesizer from scratch every time you do that, whereas one can easily open the grid and instantly get a complex result in seconds. This is why the grid does not have a UI editor, the same reason a eurorack setup doesn't have one. It's not designed to make scratch-built plugins, it's designed to be an environment with which is able to get you to the sound you want fast with the flexibility and expansiveness of a modular system.

[@Qubie1]

In short, M4L is a tool to make synths, effects and tools. The grid is a sound design tool. At least that how I see it. You explained it better though:)

[@Alckemy]

I also think it’s an unfair comparison but just about every time you hear the grid you hear someone mention max. Don’t know about the complex results in seconds, but it’s at least nice that polymer gives you a jump off point and then you can switch to the full grid

[@KnzoVortex]

@@Alckemy Yeah that why I felt like pointing out what I believe the important distinction between them is, they're just different tools with different uses. But yeah, If by seconds we mean any amount of time under a minute (which I guess is a bit of a stretch I do realize now :p) I can definitely say yes, you can get very complex results in seconds.

[@KnzoVortex]

@@Qubie1 Yeah that's about how I see it as well :>

[@valdir7426]

yep exactly. If I need a specific m4l tool I will spend time programming it then I can resume making music or whatever. It's not something integrated into your music making workflow. The cool thing however in live is there are many already built m4l patches integrated into live that vastly improve the original software; things like LFO that basically add the modulator function from bitwig (and many other things; the drum synths; the convolution reverb before l11; the granular synth...)

[@duncanmaclennan6744]

I freaking love bitwig. Moved to it a few years ago, came back to Ableton for comping, now I’m back on BW4.

[@tredfxman]

I started trying the demo at version 1 when it was just released. Didnt like it at all. Then heard KZbinr Mattias Holmgren tell me i should try version 3. Now i bought it & αgot version 4 for free! Never going to look back on my 10 years of struggeling with Ableton. Its like Bitwig thinks exactly like me where things should be etc! 👍

[@rorz999]

@@tredfxman yeah, Bitwig is just way more intuitive. Ableton is much harder to navigate

[@Berzzodrip]

Bitwig has autotune or fine tune for vocals?

[@Ernthir]

@@Berzzodrip Not really but you can just download a plugin for that.

[@quinnq2971]

@@Berzzodrip it does have fine tuning but it's a manual process

[@MangoMang]

After learning Ableton 9 standard for years I was aprehensive about switching to Bitwig but it often intrigued me, you switching ended up convincing me to switch too and I couldn't be happier! Been lovin it for months now. Had no idea about placing Cthulhu before instruments just working... here was me messing with input/output routing like in Ableton 😂 Great video, I miss some things from Ableton like yourself, but generally been feeling a lot more creative while using Bitwig so I'm sticking with it!

[@Alckemy]

So cool to hear you’re happy about the switch! It really is a playground for experimentation and sound design

[@andygordon3345]

The older DAWs need to be doing proper updates to stay up with the newer DAWs. No proper mixer page and no hybrid clip/arranger page in Ableton is just too stuck in the past. i get that existing users love Ableton because it works the way they have learnt to and therefore they can work efficiently. But software companies need to keep their applications current and that means keep an eye on what other DAWs are doing that yours is not. We added a new reverb is not a "keeping up with whats current" update. Adding a hybrid clip/arranger page is an update.

[@Alckemy]

I like new devices but the workflow enhancements are definitely what makes a daw stand out the most

[@hazmatproduction4562]

Try using Cubase. No multi use macros, no FM/PM synthesis or audio rate mod capability at all, no native solution for streamlined multiband crossover splits, a modulation system (MIDI inserts) that hasn’t had an update in well over a decade, Cumbersome routing, plagued with crashes. I guess it’s understandable that steinberg would struggle to keep up with the new kids on the block, considering it was initially coded in the days of Atari STs & Commodore Amigas, but my god it feels dated compared to Bitwig. All Bitwig needs for me to ditch it completely is a less ugly & more functional mixer & ARA2 extension compatibility. I really like the way cubase looks these days. It’s very easy on the eyes, but it’s just way too bloated with endless drop down menus & features most people will never use, at least in the early stages of learning. It’s better now in that regard than it was when I first learned it (SX2), but it seems like steinberg are really trying to put all their eggs into one basket & trying to compete with protools for post & video audio market dominance with nuendo, and as cubase pro is basically nuendo lite, it’s just not advancing in areas that are most important for electronic production or sound design. I’d say it’s almost unbeatable if you’re a mix engineer, or a score composer, but it’s a chore to work with for synthesis based workflows. Projects get way too cluttered with automation lanes & midi tracks just to route something like LFOtool to a filter on diva. In Bitwig I just made a rack of MSEGs using 6 instances of the dc offset to LFOtool to audio rate mod method & just have to place whatever i want to modulate into the preset’s chain. Then there’s also so many damn versions (LE,AI,Elements,Artist,Pro,Nuendo) as well as Cubasis for tablets, that steinberg have to maintain, not to mention wavelab, spectralayers, halion, grooveagent & a million sound libraries. Advancement is slow, you wait a year for updates that always fall short. I think the last thing I got excited about was Bézier curves in automation & midi cc lanes, or in-plugin sidechain source selection. Bitwig is amazing. There’s a solution to everything & you can save anything. When you add the modulation & nesting flexibility & the genius way it hosts VSTs preventing it from pretty much ever crashing. It’s just so far ahead of the curve. 6 months in & im still continually impressed & getting my mind blown on a daily basis haha I also prefer the upgrade system of just rolling out new features as & when they’re ready & putting out multiple betas for everyone with a plan to test. Steinberg are way too secretive with their updates & the silly thing is these days they’re generally just copying studio one anyway lol

[@citadelo5ricks]

Develop on Live, mix on Reaper...but Reaper is no picnic, it takes time.

[@Robert-kx8mp]

I had an Ableton instructor tell me a long time ago that the Cytomic Glue Compressor in Ableton was just another SSL G-Master Buss Compressor emulation. Of course SSL's G-Buss is legendary and magnificent and everyone uses to "glue" their mixes together, hence the name Glue Compressor. I think the soft clipping feature is something added by Cytomic to fake overdriven analog hardware, and not necessarily something found in every G-Buss clone.

[@Alckemy]

You’re right! The ssl was like a British analog compressor used in a lot of uk stuff. The soft clipper works more as a limiter but only a handful of “glue” style comps have the clipping or peak control. Waves for example does not on most of them

[@voodoohex72]

you are so right about the audio editing of clips. this was the reason I left Ableton for bitwig 1.0. Its insanely powerful.

[@rumblechannel6343]

Indeed, it even works in the session view. You can also drop in other samples from the browser and do pretty much everything you want!

[@antkn33]

Excellent video. I would like to see more videos explaining real world uses of the features. Especially for more creative or unique uses

[@Alckemy]

be sure to check out my upcoming video!

[@FurkanTopal]

8:50 When you highlight them all and try to shape them, it's interesting that Ableton perceives just one of them although you highlighted all. In FL Studio, also all of them will be affected by doing so. But honestly what I've found attractive in Ableton was to play with the sound individually one by one. In FL Studio you have to say "make unique" to make the DAW perceive each clip differently. I'll keep watching this, thanks for sharing. I'm an FL user who learns Ableton. But things are getting complex here after watching this ahahaha.

[@Alckemy]

Even though you can manipulate the audio clips together in bitwig, they are all actually unique. So you get the best of both worlds:)

[@javonaziz5323]

I think as long as you enjoy working in the software (and can do basically everything you need to) then whatever DAW you use is the right one. I switched from Reaper after about 5 years to Ableton, not long after the release of Ableton 10. I still love reaper and it still has built in features that I haven't seen in other Draws... But Ableton was just a more enjoyable and quicker place for me to work/play. The most important thing is for people to try things out and get the most out of a trial period.

[@DeusNosSalvet]

i agree with you however reaper is in a league all on its own. Imo reaper is the king of linear DAWS, by sheer customizability. it is probably one of the worst out of the box streamlined options, but there is literally nothing it cant do if you set it up exactly the way you want it and if its not built in someone has used C++, Javascript or ReaScript to make it possible. there are no other DAWS that are as capable. Bitwig and Ableton are comparable to one another, but Reaper honestly has no rivals at all not even pro tools or Cubase can compare. Cockos will de-throne Avid as industry standard within 5-10 years.

[@javonaziz5323]

@@DeusNosSalvet I definitely agree with you. Reaper can basically be moulded to whatever the user wants. I probably could have been happy sticking with it. However, one benefit of using software that you don't have to customise is that you can collaborate with other musicians (that use the same software) a little easier. I can go to any of my Ableton using friends and jump into their sessions without thinking about what key shortcuts are changed or getting used to their layouts and icons. That isn't something I have been able to say about my reaper friends. Again, I love both and it's just what works for you 🤙

[@DeusNosSalvet]

@@javonaziz5323 ahh i never really thought about that, i dont collaborate with any other artists so its never crossed my mind but you bring up a very good point. i use bitwig as a more streamlined approach for sound design and goofing off, i kind of look at like my noise playground and it can open live projects. where as reaper is my bread and butter for tracking live instruments. though i dont collab with other people i record quite a few in my home studio. and of course having everything tweaked down to a fine art makes it so efficient for me. like you said whatever you click with and whichever workflow you prefer at the end of the day is the one you will get the most work done in. :D

[@Disregardedinc]

I enjoy the current DAW I use(Cakewalk) but for me, the software is so buggy and it’s workflow is really goddamn slow.

[@axonassault]

As for automation, Live does have the nice set of shape presets which fill out the time range based on your grid scale. BUT Bitwig does two things that Live does not: 1) MIDI automation. In Bitwig you can add a MIDI lane to automate, say, the mod wheel (which *every* synth plugin preset uses heavily). In Live, in order to do that you have to download a M4L device which exposes MIDI parameters to automation. Admittedly the device is free but why the need to download it in the first place not to mention now you have to add it to the track every time (or set it as part of your track template). 2) Relative automation. You can set automation across your entire track. Then you can go into individual clips and edit automation there in one of three ways: absolute, additive, and multiplicative, the latter two being different types of relative. Very cool. Reaper arguably has the best automation tricks but the rest of it was so hard to use I gave up on it.

[@Alckemy]

I never tried reaper but I like some of the things about it. The always visible eq thing is really awesome

[@rano12321]

@@Alckemy you should give it a try, and don't have any assumptions from the default out of the box experience, as you can change pretty much everything about the program by your liking. There's nothing like Reaper out there.

[@Alckemy]

@@rano12321 would be wrong of you to assume I haven’t tried it already:)

[@rano12321]

@@Alckemy I mean it's an old comment of you saying you never tried it hence I said that.

[@junglelove8349]

Just switching atm, the feature thats stopping me from switching completly is capture, Being able to just let someone play until you hear somthing good press capture and chop is worth its weight in gold! Turning record on seems to reset the proability wave to 0 with most people, having capture takes the pressure off. The streching on ableton is cleaner but the bitwig streching is very similer sounding to a akai s3000/s2000 can get some really intresting textures out of it in a small fraction of the time. I think i will be capturing my melodys etc and warping vocals in ableton and then transferring to bitwig to manipulate.

[@Alckemy]

Glad you checked them both out! With modulators you can set them to sync, on note, or free depending on how you want it to behave, but the midi capture definitely is a cool feature. I’d like midi and automation capture personally. That would be awesome!

[@sensemusicofficial]

resample from master :) its extremely simple to do exactly the same things in ableton .. in bitwig .. and you're completely wrong about the stretching algorithms ableton is HORRIBLE and always has been horrible at stretching.. bitwig actually focussed properly on it and provides many different stretching modes for specific kinds of musical content .. and it works perfectly and extremely transparent ..

[@junglelove8349]

@@Alckemy The modulators are pretty insane in bitwig hell of a nifty feature. Yes all DAWS should include capture its a very good tool!

[@junglelove8349]

​@@sensemusicofficial Sorry, not sure what resampling from the master solves for me? How do I perform capture in bitwig? Fair enough, I just prefer the sound of drums and vocals stretched in ableton might not be everyone's cup of tea but, it works for the music I make. I guess that's the beauty of production and techniques; its subjective just like musical taste.

[@sensemusicofficial]

@@junglelove8349 "capture" in bitwig ? are you talking about "capturing" audio ? you simply take Audio from the MASTER channel into an Audio channel and press record.. its identical to "resampling" in ableton

[@thegroove2000]

I think im moving over to bitwig. The per note fx and modulation features are impressive.

[@danemiller4852]

Brooooooo. How could you leave out the seemless MPE midi recording. 😭 using a midi controller that has far more capabilities other than velocity... (ie: pitch, timber, glide, slide, lift, etc) is all fully captured by Bitwig automatically. I use a Seaboard Rise 49 from Roli that connects with default settings and Bitwig captures EVERYTHING i play live and records it flawlessly. It was my main reason to switch. Completely blew my mind. 🤯 In Ableton I had to set up the MPE capture manually (which was a pain in the dick lol) but it still didn't capture as well as bitwig did just by default. Love it! Great video btw!

[@Alckemy]

I was discussing the features that mattered to me the most over every reason in general:) I don’t use mpe very often but it’s definitely cool!

[@JonathanHatcher]

Props on having Metroid music in the background.. Torvus Bog/ Lower Brinstar is probably my singular most favorite piece of music ever. Thanks for the vid too, 12 years of Ableton and I'm thinking about switching to Bitwig.

[@Alckemy]

Huge Metroid fan! Playing through the remaster right now. Feel free to ask if you have any further questions

[@briancase6180]

I started about two years ago with Live and bitwig. I stuck with bitwig and now am glad I did. Perhaps now that best thing is that I can run the M1 binary and still use Intel-coded plug-ins. Like you, I do miss some of Live's devices, but bitwig is very satisfying to use. Thanks for the video!

[@Alckemy]

similar story, I was with Ableton for six years and after a month of demoing Bitwig I was like this is def my cup of tea

[@TheWilliamSnfrd]

Bitwig just added some awesome new color pallettes with pastels and darker tones as well. I think the UI works best by striking the balance between appearance and utility. Buttons, knobs, and clips are all outlined and slightly shaded so that things don't get blended together like Abletons top play-bar, but they're not as flashy and hidden away as some of FL and logics UI is as well. Additionally you can make things like your own multiBand compressor or OTT by using the FX-3 chain in bitwig and add a compressor to each band. I'm working with Ableton right now for a project and I'm missing being able to hide the device/detail view like you can on bitwig, giving you ample room to arrange a track. I would say bitwig has that balance of being a Live Daw without sacrificing arrangement capability. Lastly the mixer page is highly usable compared to what I've seen from Ableton FL and Logic. Again striking that balance between looking like a traditional mixer but being focused on utility working with a mouse, you have large, easy to drag faders, and you can see all your devices in a vertical "signal-flow" way, similar to logic pro. Great video! edit: changed saw to daw

[@Alckemy]

I love the Madeira palette! The dynamics in bitwig does both upwards and downwards compression where as the compressor only does downwards so you’d have to use that on the fx3, but I think the ott from xfer is a more faithful recreation and is already free. You can hide the device menu in ableton too, there’s a little arrow at the bottom to hide all windows if you want :) Definitely agree on all the other stuff though. The browser in live (even with the extension from Dylan tallchief?) Is still very slow compared to being able to have one always open and then pull another one up from almost anywhere.

[@TheWilliamSnfrd]

@@Alckemy thanks for the reply! I'll look for that arrow when I open up live haha

[@rumblechannel6343]

Thanks for the comparison! I'm currently running the demo since about two days and I'm already pretty sure I'm going to switch. A big deal for me was push integration since I use it a lot. But there is a guy who wrote a bitwigextension for it, also many other controllers, and while it's not quite as tightly integrated it works pretty well. You can set the scale, use the different sequencers, including the drum sequencer , change clip lengths and most of the other stuff. I can even open the plugin window from the push which is something I miss in Ableton. The Grid is awesome! Definitely not quite as powerful as M4L, but comes with a way lower learning curve and it is natively integrated. And the fact that you can pull in Sampler as a module is awesome :). Give it a try if you have some time, it's a lot of fun! Took me only about 15 minutes to create a basic synth without prior knowledge. Last but not least, Bitwig is also cheaper. What I will miss the most is the insane number of cool M4L devices. BTW you can tell Ableton not to create the .asd files in the settings ;)

[@Alckemy]

I think you're referring to drivenbymoss? he's done quite a lot for the scripts for bitwig. definitely a saint lol

[@rumblechannel6343]

@@Alckemy Yes, that's the one :)

[@iTrensharo]

11:25 is why every DAW needs a clip launcher. Great repository for ideas without all the duplicate tracks and whatnot. People don't ever seem to think about this. They only think about lip triggering in a performance scenario.

[@lattetown]

I find Ableton a cleaner UI. Mixing Midi and Audio on one track is messy, with nested relationships‚which reminds me of FL Studios anything anywhere grid, that leads to disorganized tracks. I also feel like Ableton is better at warping audio.

[@notificationsareblocked.yo53]

Yeah honestly i prefer Abletons warp modes too i didnt even think about that but Bitwigs arent bad... I feel like Bitwig vs Ableton is like Android vs iPhone... you can really make a case for either

[@Trickey2413]

Nah, in terms of organization bitwig is ahead of ableton, you don't need an entirely new lane for a piece of audio and since the audio is the same sound as the midi it is by no means any less organized. Not to mention you can make the arrangement view only display specific group.

[@voodoohex72]

You don't have to put audio and midi on the same track. Its optional... Also they both use the same warping framework from elastique zplane audio and I personally think bitwig implemented it better.

[@hypnoz123]

Lol cleaner 😂

[@rorz999]

Ableton's UI is horrible!

[@LabofmusicRecords]

I am a looooong time Cubase user, now on Cubase 12. I tried all DAWS an I own a lot of them. Bitwig is nice to me for ideas, also Reason Studios or Ableton or Logic, but I always go back to cubase because I know it the best. I love tools like Bitwig for new ideas.

[@nicomelgares]

there is no "best DAW". of course, some DAWs have more features, which is better, but that doesn't mean it's the best for everyone. every DAW has there differences and that's why different people use different programms, because they're DIFFERENT!

[@LabofmusicRecords]

@@nicomelgares yup

[@chitlun]

A long time Cubase here, who’s tried a lot of other DAWs. I could never gel with Ableton for some reason but I bought Bitwig Studio last month and absolutely love the workflow and the deep sense of experimentation for sound design it affords. I expect I’ll always mix in Cubase though, it just works better for me. Good video man, peace ✌️

[@Alckemy]

I’m glad you found something you liked! And that’s actually understandable as I think bitwig could improve some of their mixing devices.

[@conedson]

Automatic like and subscribe because I recognized the remixed final fantasy 9 instrumental, and then you immediately follow up with a Super Metroid remix. I’m an LPX user with no interest in switching, but wanted a quick rundown of Bitwig. Great and informative comparison.

[@Alckemy]

Ahhh someone caught it. Nice. Thank you for watching! Those tunes are available at SoundCloud/znsei (my hip hop channel)

[@thephonecalls9856]

A total beginner comment, but maybe someone here will be able to answer it. My main reason for choosing Ableton is that there are so many tutorials, yet I wanna use Bitwig, as I like some of its features. Is it easy to "translate" an Ableton track production tutorial onto Bitwig? Or in other words, apply the instructions from Ableton tutorials in a Bitwig project? I guess that the core production techniques are the same and the DAW really doesn't matter, but I thought that it staying consistent with the tutorial will make the learning process easier. If not, then I'm happy to deep dive into Bitwig.

[@Alckemy]

It’s almost 1:1 if you can get past effect equivalents. There are a couple effects that are unique to ableton and bitwig but easily replaceable, like compressors, distortion, etc. There’s also the rare case of max 4 live which I mention in the video.

[@thephonecalls9856]

@@Alckemy Thank you!

[@Noldy__]

Cubase and FL also have that MIDI capture thing if you forget to press record.

[@Alckemy]

I believe captain chords has it as a vst, too

[@dominiquecamus8488]

Hello again, I'm replying here, because I assume it will useful for other users. ;) 1/ The culprit in fact, is... VST3! by using VST2 instead, now I can intercept MIDI CC messages coming from another instrument track in project. 2/ By using alternate script (lastest DrivenByMoss) instead of stock, MIDI Learn (via button on certain devices such Instrument Selector) works better.

[@Alckemy]

Good man ^^

[@astratechnicatube]

NOTE: In the video at 00:19:20 Pitch shifting and the ability to transpose audio in Bitwig Studio can be achieved by holding down the (option) key when dragging the selection. ;)

[@Alckemy]

I'll have to try that, thank you!

[@carlosbayona3723]

This not solves the fact that you have no option to transpose in semitones, which is the whole point ....or am i missing somethin?

[@meathead919]

Its mind-boggling why the Bitwig people have not come up with a video like this. It's amazing, well done!

[@Alckemy]

what do you mean? like the company themselves? wouldn’t be good to call them out, and for what reason. I think a video like this coming from a consumer like me probably comes off as more genuine and authentic as I’ve put thousands of hours into both

[@wittekindsven]

Totally right about Simpler! When Bitwig would implement something like Simpler (Slice Mode) ...I would think no second about changing over to Bitwig. Because that's a big workflow for me. As I work a lot with my old Synthlines and Top Loops, it's amazing to have your Trademark Sound mixed up in new ways... Also Granulator & a Good Sequencer like ML-165 or Rozzer.

[@Alckemy]

The slice to multi sample isn’t the biggest deal since you have options to choose where and how you slice but if it’s a huuuge granular chunk then you’re at the mercy of rendering times. I kinda don’t do use sampler for that anymore but I’d definitely come back even if bitwig had a basic real time slicer

[@generalawareness101]

Most people have moved away from Simpler into a greatly more refined product to do it called Serrato Sample.

[@Alckemy]

@@generalawareness101 simpler is way more powerful than Serrato sampler other than key/bpm detection… which are handy, but easy to figure out

[@generalawareness101]

@@Alckemy I did not find that the case but YMMV.

[@Alckemy]

@@generalawareness101 the awesome thing about simpler is that is has the ability to change the warping of the slices as well as different ways to find slices where as serato sample only has a single algorithm on both accounts. I’m essence this has a wider use case for using a sampler beyond just finding chops; it makes it a sound design tool

[@vodkastudios4170]

M4L is great and has almost infinite potential, but some of the plugins developed in it are unstable, which you have to watch for. I love the bitwig tooltip interactivity help menu. I like how Bitwig can modify multiple clips at once, and has the ability to have midi and audio on the same track though, very cool. I tend to obsess over every clip having a unique characteristic so it is not that big a deal to me, but I will admit it is very nice. Lastly, that midi capture on ableton??? Many many times has that saved a performance for me that I appreciated and would have been lost otherwise... I think also that it is not necessary to stick to only 1 daw if you have the means to buy multiple, but as it stands, I will be sticking with Ableton. Great video btw. Good stuff. For both daws though, the coolest feature would be a right click option for any part of the daw that you can assign the color from a color wheel, no more color restrictions, that would be great.. want to turn this specific filter dial to baby blue? there you go!!! , no issues...

[@Alckemy]

I'm glad you were able to make an informed decision and consider the pros and cons between the two, that's really what the video was aimed for. Thank you for watching! definitely miss midi capture and simpler myself, haha

[@NickMcC]

Oh man, the tooltips are so well-done. I love that I can cursor over something and Bitwig will remind me what the common next-steps are. So many programs that use similar key commands that a little help is outright endearing.

[@ctd_audio]

You don't even need to click on the plus buttons in Bitwig to open the browser to load an instrument/vst or what have you. You can literally just double click in the black space and it will pop up. 👍

[@danemiller4852]

Huh.... learn something new everyday lol

[@briancase6180]

If you want to load a device from a folder, say from a folder of airwindows plugins, you can just drag them into the bitwig window. You don't need to install them into the VST or VST3 folder.

[@bacccrful]

1 correction: in the bitwig, multiband dynamics is absolutely doable, with Multiband FX container. And not just dynamics, but any FXs.

[@Alckemy]

You can definitely do it in many ways, I just don’t personally like the dynamics or compressor

[@futur_sunds]

You make really good points. I can’t really stand for either. I do have Ableton, but only a trial because I just wanted to see what it was like. My main daw is Logic. I chose Logic for its versatility in almost any genre, the only exception being many types of electronic music, I think that’s where Logic falls. But because I make so many different styles of music Logic works best for me. I also am just so used to it, I literally know every short cut for it so my workflow is currently better than it would be with any other daw unless I used that daw for a really long time like I have with Logic. Given the means I would totally give BitWig a try and I could totally see myself using it as my main daw. I think every daw is great, none better than the other cause ultimately all daws to the same thing, some just have things that are more personalized for different people making different music. Good video, learned a lot!

[@Alckemy]

I think what the takeaway from this video should be is just being informed on what these are about and what their pros and cons are. Even if you use another daw, it can help you re establish your workflow and feature needs

[@cedricmialaret3300]

Many things exist in Studio One. For expample the Live Midi capture is called Retrospective midi in Studio One and was introduced in version 5. Working with videos has been possible forever in S1 since at least V2. What's mainly missing from Bitwig are operators and modulators, partially doable but not as elegantly or simply.

[@Alckemy]

You mean from studio one? Bitwig is all about modulators and operators lol

[@briancase6180]

Studio one just struck me as trying to appeal to pro tools users. For my production needs, studio one was just too messy and the workflow didn't make sense, but that's just me.

[@cedricmialaret3300]

@@Alckemy Yes. I like Bitwig but the upgrade price from 8-track to full version is really too high (for me) to purchase as an additional daw.

[@cedricmialaret3300]

@@Alckemy Indeed. Feasible but certainly not to the extent or simplicity of Bitwig. I would upgrade from 8-track if the price wasn't so high, which I can't justyify as an additional daw. Perhaps Presonus will add them since they're doing a big customer survey to decide what functionnalities they'll add first. Though personally I'd rather they implement multichanel, as I think it's the next evolution in music and will change everything from mixing to listener's experience, even with only 2 speakers. It has the potential to be to stereo what stereo was to mono.

[@spiralmoment]

@@briancase6180Macros, I really love the modulators and the grid in Bitwig but studio ones macros, arranger track, scene snapshots, drag and drop saving your sounds as music loops or track presets, clip gain envelopes, switching macro toolbars with shortcuts, layering multiple instruments on the same track, drag and drop etc, makes it the fastest most efficient daw ive used except for reaper but it takes a lot of work and studying to setup. Just being able to open your favourite plugins with macros is a huge timesaver especially if you use lemur or something and just have all your macros on your iPad, macros are just a huge time saver in general. I think, if you're not into putting the work into setting up reaper to make it function as you want, s1 is the most efficient daw with the fastest workflow both for production and mixing. but that's just me.

[@westoncogswell8656]

For me the main thing is command B to bounce in place and hybrid tracks just make it harder for me to work in Ableton, knowing that I have to freeze and flatten which just makes for a slower workflow. I do hope that skins will be utilized soon though in BW

[@Alckemy]

I would definitely like skins too! I don’t see myself working in ableton again primarily unless they also go modular

[@GabrielPerboni]

Skins may look like a little thing, but for someone with visual impairment is absolutely essential. I still use LPX because some collars in BW are invisible to me

[@spiralmoment]

If they just made it so you could change whatever is orange id be happy.

[@HansyPants184]

Bought Reason 4 in 2008. Since it was pre-KZbin golden age and had limited presets it was a super tough slug. Bought Ableton in 2019 and never looked back. I love real hardware but the virtual hardware in reason was super confusing without any prior experience at the time. I can see how it could be really deep and creative but even now when I open it up I feel really intimidated by the fact that everything has to be hooked up to get sound when I can just deal with an abstraction that auto-routes only gives me the info and options I need access to.

[@Alckemy]

I tried reason as well and got the same experience. Hardware is not my thing lol. However, I will say the grid is much easier to work with because you can visually see the routing with very clear colors and there’s no huge vertical scrolling. I’m sure reason has come a long way but I definitely was not ready for it yet

[@HansyPants184]

@@Alckemy oh yeah! The vertical scroll. I forgot about that 😂. Glad to hear I'm not alone.

[@xerxes-music]

Very good and agree with all. The browser in Bitwig kills any DAW. Don't get a big mention here. Cheers!

[@Alckemy]

Cheers!

[@truthseeker7461]

Lol! Bitwig's browser is messy and unorganized or all over the place for navigation!

[@Marco-td6ii]

I like it a lot, but doing MIDI fades (version 3.3) is missing and even audio fades are difficult, this is so easy in Reaper. Now that they've added the orchestral string sample to Bitwig version 4 I will probably upgrade just for that. I really like Bitwig and how it looks but I still find Reaper more productive.

[@Alckemy]

As long as you find what works for you that’s what it’s about. Surprised they don’t have midi fades myself

[@benjamonpookoo2741]

Dude, I just played OoT Forest Temple earlier today... Thought I was having auditory hallucinations lmao

[@haslo_]

I never dared change to Bitwig, until you Alckemy started going in-depth into its features. To me, the main killer features were the Grid and the modulation; my workflow involves a lot more MIDI-based tracks and a lot less sample manipulation than yours. I absolutely don't regret switching, and I actually almost never open Ableton any more. I also moved to more DAWless stuff meanwhile, so not every track is made with Bitwig any more - but those where I use a DAW at all, it's exclusively Bitwig. And the Grid. The Grid is everywhere for me.

[@Alckemy]

It seemed like a really easy transition and I’m glad you feel good about the switch:)

[@faterix7737]

how does bitwigs grid compare to max4live... because just plugin and routing finished devices would not do the job for me. i really need lists, possibility to imply math and created user interfaces.

[@haslo_]

@@faterix7737 I guess you wouldn't be happy for that with the Grid (which really is what its name is). max4live is basically a programming environment. The Grid is much more similar to a modular synth. The only user interface you get for Grid components is macros - so just knobs with names. Personally I'm a programmer, but I never found the time to get into max4live (instead, I ended up coding modules for Voltage Modular, where I can work with Java). The Grid on the other hand is really quick and easy to create patches with.

[@faterix7737]

@@haslo_ i see. java is included in max , aswell as c++ in some kind of container form. but then, again everytime i'd like to programm sth, it is either not so important that i would figure out how to do it in max, or so important that i'd rather try to write a vst (at which point i am not yet) and stick to c++ (max compiling is not efficient, but possible (for fx maybe. and simple synths)) thx for the honest answer. for me, learning the first 30- 50 Maxobjects was really hard, until you overcome some kind of threshold of knowing your work-arounds.then its really rewarding.. my no 1 for prototyping unusual stuff ( i dont know synth edit tho)

[@Alckemy]

@@faterix7737 it doesn’t compare, they’re meant for different use cases. The grid is a modular environment like vcv rack where max is like semi programming environment to where you can make standalone devices and such. There is logic and math modules but no custom interfaces. It’s really apples to oranges

[@FlatTire]

To me, Bitwig is like hybrid between Ableton and Maschine… I’m Studio One and Cubase user, but started demoing Bitwig after they introduced DAWformat with Studio One… Great feature, wish Cubase and others jump on it

[@rainsound5811]

Regarding Midi Captures features, from what I know, there are already some other DAW that have it, like Studio One, Cubase, Logic and probably more (with some other name, usually called Retrospective Record), and it indeed quite a handy features, so it will be great if implemented to Bitwig. For now, my main DAW is S1 but I'm pretty interested in Bitwig, since I used to be Ableton user back then and from what I heard, Bitwig seems to be more like an upgrade from Ableton.

[@Alckemy]

Right, it’s becoming a more common feature which I hope to see bitwig add. My mpc even has it. Feel free to ask any questions if you’re still considering, I still have to use both up to this point

[@rainsound5811]

​@@Alckemy Yes, agreed, it already become pretty common features in major DAW

[@rainsound5811]

@J Oh, despite I have prettly lot of friends using FL, they doesn't really use this kind of advance features, so this is the first time I heard of it, nice to know it!

[@geraldgoodiii6993]

@J​ ☭ retrospect record in bitwig ??

[@neurogod]

Since 2007, people have been asking the developers of Ableton Live to give them the ability to change any program settings with the mouse wheel. Just point the cursor at any parameter and roll the mouse wheel - it's that simple. But the developers of Ableton Live sit too high up to hear ordinary people.

[@Alckemy]

That’s certainly an odd omission in any daw

[@TheRabidCabbage]

FL Studio doesn't have any skinning/re-colouring whatsoever. In fact, if anyone tries to make a skin, they'll get a DMCA takedown. Not even joking. REAPER has full skinning.

[@zat-svi-ua]

yeah, the devs of FLskinner even had to rename it to Florida skinner xd

[@truthseeker7461]

Fl studio 21 now has themes in the newest version!

[@JaminZ_1]

CV Tools in Ableton gives you the ability to modulate everything in Ableton, including the ability to apply random modulation which I use all the time. What is driving me crazy in Ableton is the midi routing limitations. For example, there may be a VST that outputs midi to 4 separate midi channels. There is no way to split across Ableton, It forces all these midi channels to channel 1. Bitwig handles this nicely!

[@Alckemy]

Interesting, I’ll have to try that!

[@tdtrecordsmusic]

To make one midi track route to multiple instruments >> set all the instruments to receive midi from another single midi track. Make sure to click "in" instead of "auto" . >> U can also just arm them all I guess. is that what u mean ? U can also just use racks...

[@simaticslnt1266]

Really good video thank you! Capture and pitching cleanly are the two things i miss most. Everything else is bitwig is far superior and easier to do. I wish you could pitch snare raw with out any artifacts added, even in raw mode it doesn't sound right when doing a amen snare pitched snare roll. I have found using redux for the breaks as a good work around and I'm happy with that. Just need that capture button next , might have to start routing ableton to run all my midi instruments to work around it for now, hoping the bitwig devs follow you and see this ;)

[@Alckemy]

Repitch and slice mode will do that for you! Although the repitch mode changes the timing of the sample.

[@simaticslnt1266]

@@Alckemy i tried it, doesn't quite sound right :( its one of the most integral part of my music production. Redux works sound for now and i can get some edits that are harder to achieve in a non tracker environment

[@shiznitts]

Ableton was so frustration as someone new.. Bitwig was something more familiar to the phone apps that got me interested in production and just overall easier to use and learn. Maybe one day I'll try to use Ableton again but nahhhhh I already know I won't

[@Alckemy]

Whatever works for you is the right tool^^

[@sensemusicofficial]

Audio Sidechain / Note Sidechain on anything anywhere anytime .. Bitwig says YES..

[@Alckemy]

Modulate everything, yes

[@AdamsOlympia]

I'll probably never switch from Ableton but Bitwig has been a joy to use as just an incredibly powerful sound design tool to help build up sounds to use in Ableton. As for Ableton's Midi Capture -- it's a shame that's not in Bitwig. Both Logic and Cubase also have their own version of midi capture.

[@Alckemy]

There’s a free vst called midi cap by birds things but id definitely love a native retrospective recorder

[@mesdeep_official]

I've been trying Bitwig lately because I'm starting to hear a lot about it. I really like the spectral thingy plugins they have and it's something that makes me think of switching. What I don't like about Bitwig is the appearance, although it doesn't have to do with the sound you're making I'm a very visual person so it really matters to me. I hope in the coming updates Bitwig will update the UI to be more cleaner and aesthetic. And I hope there's themes option too. Overall, it's a great daw for sure. Lots of possibilities especially the new updates in Bitwig 5. Will still continue trying it.

[@NathanChisholm041]

I love the look of Bitwig it was part of my draw to it! I have to been a long-time Abelton user to but when I tried Bitwig I was amazed by how it can be all connected up to make music. And Spectral analizer is a really cool effect I've had fun messing about with it...

[@mesdeep_official]

@@NathanChisholm041 yeah the spectral thingy are so enticing for me. It's definitely the reason why I want to switch (I'm still 50/50 though) for me the appearance is the downside maybe if they can make or give option to scale everything smaller like the tool bar and the plugins. Maybe

[@NathanChisholm041]

@@mesdeep_official You can scale the interface so there's more room by right clicking at the top and selecting decrease GUI scaling. On my Surface Pro 8 it looks razer sharp. I still use Abelton now and then its a awesome DAW. Cheers

[@morizanova]

Yeah I`m kind same boat with you about UI . Not really about production and technical abilities stand point . But how I can learn by myself and get most of it if I`m confused all the time with those clutter (show me all ) kind of UI . Maybe that`s why I`m also easy to learn Reaper than Studio One

[@croay]

hybrid tracks, automation parameters, modulators, midi capture and bitwig's audio editing capacities... yeah, you also have all of that on Reaper

[@Alckemy]

I couldn’t imagine it being as integrated as the other twos workflow though

[@croay]

@@Alckemy Yeah, kinda, the only stuff that I miss is the hability to edit in a clip item like Bitwig, the clip view and the modulators Bitwig has (that's why I'm learning Bitwig and why I was watching you video!). Apart from that, all the stuff I mentioned goes really smooth with Reaper.

[@Alckemy]

@@croay it’s good to have a knowledge base across several daws so you can find what’s going to work best for you. Thanks for watching!

[@rano12321]

@@Alckemy That's the thing about Reaper, you can have any workflow you'd want because it's so flexible and if there any thing that you think are missing or you want it do it differently, there are 1000s of scripts out there to make it happen.

[@rano12321]

@@croay You can use MK slicer for that clip editing thing in Reaper.

[@EzyoMusic]

I switched from a primarily FL user to primarily Reaper user years ago. I still use both. I've tried Live, Reason and Studio One, which I all intended to switch to but didn't I'm still interested in trying Bitwig and maybe Cubase.

[@Alckemy]

Would definitely say demo before anything. Happy to answer any questions you may have

[@EzyoMusic]

@@Alckemy Cheers! I'm trying to figure out if Bitwig is different enough from Live. The whole Session view in Live feels like a substantial part of its workflow and clips are just not something I would use in that way. For context, the reason I switched to Reaper is because I record instruments a lot and therefore work with audio a lot. I just feel like there's a lot more interesting stuff I can do with audio. I don't think I can ever (fully) let go of either Reaper or FL so at this point I'm more looking for something that could complement both.

[@shitmandood]

I wish Bitwig had Key/Chord tracks like Studio One/Cubase, but having it missing isn't enough to warrant me making the switch. I feel fortunate that I didn't really come from a different DAW. I mean I used Fruity Loops and FL Studio many years ago, but then I decided to try a new one. Tried Reason, but kept being drawn back to Bitwig's feature set.

[@Qubie1]

what I do is, I created some midi tracks with all the notes in a certain key. whenever I want one I load it in a deactivated track. The in the note editor i turn on layer mode and lock that layer in the backfround.

[@danemiller4852]

^^^^^^ thats what I do

[@djclaudecir7]

Ableton is the father of bitwing, but both daws are advancing in new updates with new features and improvements thank you to all developers and programmers. 1- Ableton Live new update 11.6 Missing to add: Host Link to add and choose other External Editors and daws. 2- Bitwing 4.1. Missing to add: -add (Skins and themes and with dictable layout and colors), VUS signal level numbering,MIX volume buttons, -Link Host to add and choose other External Editors and daws. -Button with ON/OFF Grid Lines function -Change the Waveform of the clips to match soundforge and Ableton -Number the Volume Gain of the audio clip +and- Hopefully these new functions will be added as soon as possible

[@ridgeisland]

Studio One has Retrospective Recording for MIDI and AUDIO too.

[@Alckemy]

I’m aware. This is a comparison between ableton and bitwig though

[@ridgeisland]

@@Alckemy Ok. I was just referring to the video at 20:00 where you are saying "I don't know if any other DAW has this".

[@txori_]

Cool video, I wish you would make another one with even more differences between these two daws (that said, i still have to go to your profile to verify if maybe there is something more). About what you are saying around 20:20, a very similar feature is also available in FL Studio: you can add to the playlist anything you played from up to 30 minutes back!!

[@Alckemy]

just covered that today :)

[@show_me_lights]

i use bitwig and ableton and have found that there are some quirks to bitwig that slow down my production flow. the menu system i dont like, the effects are poor and they havent quite nailed the bitwig theme yet. ableton is less complex, and the production flow is super fast, and when you get inspired you need to work quick.

[@Alckemy]

It’s great you tried both! I personally find the workflow for bitwig to be faster, especially with editing and bouncing audio but it’s all about what works for you.

[@KnzoVortex]

20:00 I know logic and FL studio have had this feature for ages, though it only works while playback is going afaik

[@peaterrepeater4441]

In my case Ableton Live and Push2 with m4l are too powerful to abandon Ableton. However, I really dig a few things in Bitwig, like all the modulating stuff, that’s cool.

[@Alckemy]

These are important things to consider as the workflow of Ableton becomes a lot different when you add a push. I used one for years but realized that I'm so much faster with the keyboard and mouse. It's odd, because I actually invested in hardware again but for a different purpose. I wonder how things would've turned out if I had realized this method of creation sooner. Even still, for the keyboard/mouse workflow I'm glad I went to bitwig^^

[@jamisbillson4872]

After five years I’d love an alternate colour scheme for Bitwig.

[@Alckemy]

Yes. Please.

[@xlilxillx]

Bitwig is the best daw on the market by far!!! would be cool if bitwig and reason studios merged so they could incorporate the reason rack into bitwig like they do with Grid. the reason rack plugin is okay but automating anything in it is impossible because nothing is labeled, it's just a bunch of numbers... i feel like the two have very similar aspects and users, would be cool to see one day. the only thing i would love to see in bitwig is a better automation work flow, less clicking. you can't highlight a section and just drag up a reverb throw which is crazy. that and the mix effects in studio one ar the only things that keep me from going bitwig only

[@hazmatproduction4562]

Bitwig is just such a breath of fresh air coming from cubase. It feels great to have a DAW that innovates again, rather than always playing catching up to features other DAWs have had for years. The only thing I really prefer in cubase is the mixer. Mixconsole snapshots especially. Other than it’s awesome mixing environment, and ARA2 stuff, Bitwig has it beat in practically every way from an electronic production & sound design perspective

[@Alckemy]

If you can learn cubase you can learn anything lol. I started with 7 and the learning curve hurt my soul. Even still, I do think bitwig caters to sound design the most but anyone can make die given the right mindset

[@hazmatproduction4562]

@@Alckemy it’s just all the workflow shortcuts that are still blowing my mind. An example would be that I use addictive drums 2. Cubase let’s you create drum map files once for any drum machine / sampler patch that can be easily recalled. And a MIDI logical editor that you can save presets to recall for randomising / humanising drum hits by timing or velocity in set patterns (eg every hat on an offbeat). At first it appeared the Bitwig drum editor didn’t have drum map functionality, but I recently figured out it works by activating empty pads on drum machine, naming them according to a drum map & saving it as a preset with the VST nested. So last weekend I made a device that loads an Addictive Drums 2 drum map by default, has button modulators for switching snare articulations to a particular articulation, regardless of where the snare note data is drawn in on the piano roll (for both high & low velocity snares independently). So you can just draw all snares & ghost snares on any one articulation but still independently choose different combinations for main & ghost snares with one button. It has a bunch of note routing in the chain before the nested VST, using note fx layer containers & note filters, to group every note that pertains to the same kit piece together for group humanisation with remote controls. Chance is mapped to low velocity kicks & snares & all hat articulations, so you can strip back a busy arrangement when using a ride or conga for example, with one rotary. It’s just amazing. Something I initially though missing in Bitwig, that I now have a solution I can recall as a preset that does the job of not only a cubase drum map, but also about 4 or 5 logical editor presets I would use for humanisation.

[@hazmatproduction4562]

Something in the 4.3 beta 5 seems to have broken it though. When using the humaniser note fx to randomise timing, there’s a button that you can press to make it offset timing late, or both early & late from the grid. It obviously has to add some delay compensation, when the +/- button is engaged, but in beta4 the preset allowed for having say everything but your main kicks & snares humanising early or late by a few ms, and turn it off for ghost snares so they only play at late values. In beta 5 unless you have them all engaged or disengaged, the timing sounds like shoes in a drier. Maybe I should report it. I’ll try testing it again but it looks like they’ve broken something in how the delay compensation aligns the humanisation for different notes when they are a mixture of + & +/- timing humanisation

[@hazmatproduction4562]

@@Alckemy a funny thing is that whenever I have aired my gripes about cubase falling behind in a big way when it comes to modulation, routing, and other things important for electronic music or sound design, the go to response from fanboys has always been “well Noisia do alright so it can’t be that bad” Well Nik Noisia (a cubase user most of their musical career) now uses Bitwig in his patreon content. *mic drop

[@benedict303]

Cubase still wins for composing though, ie musical harmony, counterpoint and orchestration

[@jclosed2516]

I used Ableton Live for years, but never felt really comfortable with it. This probably needs some explanation, but to make a long story short - I only "added" Ableton to Cakewalk's Sonar, because I was a heavy user of Project 5 (also from Cakewalk). After Project 5 was discontinued and no longer maintained, I switched to Ableton (and to Cubase from Sonar, but that's another story). When Bitwig was released, one of the things that drawned my attention is how things where organized. It had that Project 5 vibe that was so badly missing in Ableton Life. For me Bitwig had that "coming home" feeling that I was looking for so long. Needless to say I felt immediately far more comfortable with Bitwig than I did with Ableton Live, even after so many years of using Life. It also helps that I am a keyboard player and simply like the way MIDI is organized in Bitwig more. The fact that you can make hybrid tracks is also a big plus for me. Anyway - I sold my Ableton license about a year ago, and used (a part of) the money to upgrade to a full version of Bitwig (I was using the 8-track version to see if I liked it). I honestly do not miss Ableton at all, so that's that.

[@Alckemy]

Most important I’m just glad you found what works for you!

[@acleanspace741]

Only thing thats stoping me to switch from S1 to bitwig is that bitwig doesn't have retrospective record.. And the only thing I hate about S1 is switching to different windows for my plugins..

[@spiralmoment]

What do you mean by switching to different window for your plugins?

[@chadduncan9716]

I used ableton for a few years and about 7 years ago I stopped using DAWs just jammed out stuff on an Mpc and sp404. It was fun, but nothing I was commuted to. In the last couple of weeks I pulled up ableton and started adding new vsts to my work flow. I’m basically relearning sound design. I saw a video of bitwig around the same time I reinstalled ableton. I must say, bitwig is super intriguing. I just wish I had more sound design under my belt. I think that’s the main thing keeping me from switching. That, and I enjoy using serum and addictive drums. I don’t know if you can use vsts in bitwig, I’m sure you can. I hardly ever use abletons instruments or anything other than it’s reverb from time to time. Having fabfilter I don’t find a need to use abletons fx. Again bitwig looks amazing. I’m just nervous I would spend another year in bitwig trying to get to the point I’m at in ableton.

[@Alckemy]

totally understand, this is a great channel to get more familiar with it although I can imagine it being a bit overwhelming depending on the mindset. Ableton is still a fantastic tool that can suit most of your needs, in the meantime, bitwig offers a demo that never expires, you just can't save. Would definitely recommend jumping in and spending a few minutes on it here and there if you're interested without having to invest

[@toslinked]

is there any way to quantize audio without too much hassle? thats the only thing I miss in bitwig.

[@Alckemy]

I’ve got a video on that coming soon

[@benedict303]

a few times you said "no other DAW has this" and I correct you, Cubase does.....audio editing features you showed and the retrospective recording (recording even when record button is not pressed)

[@dnalyen]

Baphometrix has a whole series on the grid. It’s so much easier than I originally thought

[@Alckemy]

I’m big on polarity too, I can use it to a degree but it’s not my strongest skill by any means

[@lawinter1949]

Logic, Cubase, Studio 1 and FL Studio also have the capture record options. I'm not sure who had it first. I think either Logic or Cubase but I might be wrong.

[@NickMcC]

I came for the software demo, but the Forest Temple remix was icing on the cake :)

[@Alckemy]

Glad you caught it!

[@zakaroonetwork777]

Msag? you can make your own in the Grid.... Right Click the Color Pallette there are more colors hidden.

[@Alckemy]

This video was a long time ago before v5

[@ReckDemon]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but audio quantization is terrible on bitwig. Slicing samples is not the best as well. Warping isn't better too. The only things I liked about Bitwig were the bouncing in place, and how optimized it is for cpu comparing to ableton. I guess I won't change before Bitwig's audio manipulation gets better.

[@Alckemy]

I find quantization pretty accurate and useful. Slicing is fine but it commits to audio. Most of the warping algorithms are actually the same as bitwig even though the available functions are different. It’s really a preference thing on that front but Bitwig’s audio manipulation is miles ahead of Ableton… bounce in place, slice in place, audio events and clips, always on screen inspector panel, sample scrubbing, multi selection edits on the timeline, I could go on lol

[@ReckDemon]

@@Alckemy What about audio quantization? Whether auto or manual? That's missing from Bitwig and it's a big deal for me.

[@Alckemy]

@@ReckDemon it works fine for me, has a ton of swing, humanize, randomize options. Allows you to quantized to triplets, quintuplets, septuplets all the way to a ridiculous beat division. I prefer this wayyyy over abletons grooves

[@ReckDemon]

@@Alckemy can you auto quantize based on transients?

[@argoneons]

The answer for me is easy : BOTH! I just can't give up those features ableton has by itself, it's almost exclusively what I use it for, however the interface is starting to look kind of ancient.

[@Alckemy]

Microsoft excel vibes losing its vintage appeal lol

[@argoneons]

LOL@@Alckemy

[@notificationsareblocked.yo53]

ONE thing is for certain and that's that Bitwig and Ableton have a better workflow than any other DAW (for bass music at least)... Reason and FL have their upsides but you're better off using Reason Rack and Image-Line VSTs in another DAW... You could make a case that they're better beat makers tho like i get why hip hop producer love FL and Reason but idk how the hell The Widdler manages to make electronic music in Reason without being annoyed the whole time lmaooo to each their own tho!!! I won't even talk about the DAWs with traditional layouts because I hate working in them so much lol.. if Ableton evaporated today most producers would switch to Bitwig and be fine

[@EzyoMusic]

I tried switching to Live multiple times but I just couldn't get into its workflow. I use Reaper 80% of the time and have done so for the past decade but I still use FL too. I enjoyed using the trial of Reason 10, probably more than that of Studio One (which I almost bought multiple times). Reason is cool but it's too quirky for me. I'm still interested in trying Bitwig.

[@rorz999]

Give Renoise a go... Renoise + Bitwig are easily my favourite DAWs for electronic music

[@EzyoMusic]

@@rorz999 I had a look at Renoise and although I think it's awesome, as a dumb pop producer using musical instruments I don't think I'd get much use out of it. Still an awesome DAW though.

[@markushavers2283]

There are so many real good free effect plugins out there the this is not a argument pro Ableton. And for the slizing and timestreching : You can do all this in the clipview or in the arrangement view.

[@Alckemy]

I think it’s definitely a contender, actually, integration of first party plugins that interact with the daw can have a lot of benefits, as well as optimization. The other thing is that when you have a toolbox you’ve cultivated sometimes the other free offerings don’t behave or work in the same way. I have a new hammer but it’s not MY hammer. Then there’s the counter to that, using new but similar tools will create new stuff as you get used to it, which I’m all for. But really that’s the point of this video, education so the viewer can make an informed decision:)

[@jshstuff]

The capture thing has been in FL for a few years at least

[@txori_]

I am also interested how ableton and bitwig compare for a live music performance, with samples and live instruments and live vocals. I struggle to find good information on it.

[@Alckemy]

They are almost identical in those department. You might want to watch my video on bitwigs clip launcher as that would be the only big difference

[@Phoenixm1200]

Can’t wait till bitwig gets to version 6 it should be amazing by then and have all the minor missing features that all the other daws have just speaking in general 🙌🏽

[@Alckemy]

I thought bitwig 4 would bridge the gap between a lot of that but I’m starting to think they’re doing things their own way. Either way for what it is now it’s pretty close to perfect for me

[@hazmatproduction4562]

There’s not much really that can’t be done with either some grid wizardry or a little thinking outside the box. I’d like to see a more customisable mixer, with recallable snapshots that save mix state & plugin state to A/B or recall. A legit polyphonic MSEG would be great. A chord track & scale features in the note editor would be nice. And ARA2 extension compatibility for melodyne or spectral editing.

[@frankvazquez5974]

As someone who like a more basic, quick, flexible set up to incorporate real instruments and audio - I'm thinking Ableton is better. Bitwig is overwhleming to me. For some who needs a zillion options Bitwig makes more sense. At the end of the day though, more options doesn't always mean better music though. Reminds me of when FL STudio went nuts with updates. I lost track of them all and could barely do what I wanted to anymore as there were too many little thing to navigate to do something simple. I do like those hybrid midi/audio options and session/arrangement view you can see at the same time though.

[@Alckemy]

As far as quick and basic setup they are exactly the same. Also exactly the same when it comes to choices and depth. You can make either as simple or complex as you want to

[@lazykid9167]

Yes, there is no MSEG yet, but there is a very powerful MSEG plugin - "Gatekeeper " from Infected Mushroom - buy that, you can utilize this as a source for your Modulators, it works perfectly well, has an awesome interface and quite some cool batteries included. Set it up once and store it as a preset. Then whenever you need MSEG, its just a preset click away. Its a workaround, and not for free, but it is awesome in its own way (gatekeeper is just a really dope MSEG) and works really ! well.

[@Alckemy]

I do own it and it’s definitely an alternative. Just a bit cumbersome to set it up. Wait for a sale! It’s like 13 bucks during the holiday

[@el-bov8034]

Logic has had off-record MIDI capture for some years now. Such a simple idea, but still a revelation 👍

[@KnzoVortex]

Yeah FL studio as well.

[@whatareyouselling9811]

I believe FL had it way before logic

[@el-bov8034]

@@whatareyouselling9811 Great!

[@el-bov8034]

@@whereismyleafage1887 >>"it has to be triggered manually"

[@kimikmusic]

20:00 Logic Audio has "capture last take" too, I never use record unless I'm recording audio...also not changing to bitwig unless they implement this. Best and most essential feature for me ever.

[@Alckemy]

Knowing what you want is important, that’s what this video was hoping to solve

[@spiralmoment]

Yes, Logic had this forever if not always, and I used to use it all the time when I was using logic. But that was because logic would make comps, which made it really useful. Other daws just put it all on top of each other in a single region when playing in a loop, which makes it kinda useless imo. So even if they implemented it, it would probably suck like most of the other daws compared to logic. The way logic does comping with both midi and audio and the way the scissor tool works with ctrl is the only things I really miss from logic, though I used it for 15 years or so, and the midi event list and the looks. They just made that so much better than any other daw im familiar with.

[@joobastudio]

Logic have also "midi capture"

[@MrMarcLaflamme]

17:45 - I just learned about this in Live and thought "Oh awesome, I use Bitwig and can just do the same there because so many features are in both"... nope 😞 Really hope this feature moves over! Not being a Live user I can't just do it there. It works so well being able to have the slice end point stay linked to the start point of the next slice.

[@Someone89a]

Max for live used to be essential for me - I’m very good at building in it - but you spend SO much time big fixing and testing that I got sick of how unstable it was. My plan is to switch to a combination of the grid and Reaktor - both of which are so much more stable and quicker to make things in - even if it’s not as powerful as M4L

[@Alckemy]

I prefer the clip launcher mode in bitwig too. Same tab as the arranger and more launching options

[@kaojaicam]

Great overview. I didn't know bitwig had even a fraction of the capabilities you just showed 😆 this was almost as much a bitwig tips and tricks video as it was an Ableton comparison

[@Alckemy]

thanks J! when I first Tried bitwig I was really put off and when I started discovering the changes my eyes lit like a Christmas tree.

[@MaisonLexBeatz]

20:01 bro, it's been in FL Studio for years

[@JuliusJuluis]

i appreciate the feature bitwig has over ableton but i think it looks horrible. It`s maybe a small point for some, but looking for hours at this would hurt my eyes. Why do they have so harsh contrast everywhere? Ableton with grey in grey is way more relaxing for the eyes.

[@Alckemy]

Grey is the default for bitwig. I set this contract myself because I like it

[@walkergoff3127]

I use it because it’s compatible with Linux and I don’t have enough computational power to run Ableton through a VM.

[@tdtrecordsmusic]

Haven't tried bitwig, but it's interesting. I would buy it if I had the money just to contratulate them on making a functional daw that works well. For me where Ableton stands out is the groups & racks. Racks on Racks defines Ableton. Also key map / midi map / macro map . That quick workflow is bomb

[@Alckemy]

Bitwig has identical workflow regarding groups and racks, give the demo a try! The mapping is also the same:)

[@beatkultr]

Thankhs for this video. This is also something I struggle with. I Ableton but Bitwig takes the cake when it comes to advanced features. As you mentioned the capture feature, I feel the same way about "bounce in place". Why isn't this a feature in Ableton yet? We have to freeze then flatten the track to get this done. I do enjoy the integration between the push 2 and Ableton. I have a script to integrate the push with bitwig but to be honest its not the same. It's ugly and not really useful in a seamless way. I like Ableton's cleaner look but hey, everyone taste is different. Bitwig is easier in my opinion. Love Bitwig's browser. But the video editing is something I like about Live. OMG (pulling my hair lol). So I'm just in between both right now to be honest.

[@Alckemy]

If you own both I’d say just use the best tool for the job. For me the sacrifices I made leaving ableton outweighed the percs of bitwig but that’s something you have to find for yourself

[@beatkultr]

@@Alckemy Yup absolutely. It's a tuff decision. It's why I watched yours to see if something you say will trigger a spark. Sometimes watching these kinds of videos I learn new things. Anyways appreciate your response. It's I usually tell people as well when I get these questions. I'm a Studio One kind of guy but feeling the lack of a bunch of things in that DAW in terms of creating a different sound. Anyways I'll leave you alone and I'll get back to streaming my frustrations and playing in Ableton and Bitwig lol. Maybe it's not a bad thing I haven't made up my mind yet...🤷🏽‍♂️

[@Alckemy]

@@beatkultr whatever drives you to finish music is the one for you. It’s expensive and a lot of time investment for the challenge! I appreciate you watching and commenting. Don’t know if you’ve seen my other vids but I have a ton on creative block and production as whole. Best of luck:)

[@beatkultr]

@@Alckemy naw I’m nee here. I don’t really have blocks like that. My new issue has been using the right daw that pushes me to think outside the box. I’ve completed many projects and got them placed but then the boredom comes knocking on my door lol. Looking for more which is why I started using Bitwig and or ableton. I just stumbled across your video not too long ago just to see what you had to say. I’m sure your style is different from mines which makes since why you would choice a daw like Bitwig. Im in the urban space and most people tend to use daw like FL studio, Logic, Resaon or Live. I also tend to go against the grain when it comes to this stuff which is why I like Bitwig. Not many people use Bitwig for trap, R&B, or Pop records. Maybe I’ll do more videos on these topics in my lane. Recently I started working on my lofi project in Bitwig and it felt right. I’ll stop rambling right here lol

[@Alckemy]

@@beatkultr if you get the chance take a dive some afternoon; I’ve got over 250 videos, some covering the genres you described:) it’s a huge archive of everything I know full of lots of ideas. My earlier stuff is with ableton and then I switched to phase plant and bitwig and haven’t even batted an eye since. No worries on rambling. Conversations are welcome

[@davidsmisc1351]

For pure electronic music Bitwig is amazing. Ableton is a more complete DAW: for example MPC-like workflow is perfect in Ableton with Simpler. It's a fudge to do that in Bitwig.

[@Alckemy]

According to who? I think you’ve got it backwards 😅

[@Mixxwizard]

Nice review Neuro, here's my question. If Ableton audio editing was the same as Bitwig, would you go back? I've been using Ableton since version 2. For me doing strictly Remixes and Mashups. Ableton is a winner for me. You can create a mind-blowing Mashup in Ableton just from using Follow Actions in session view. Arrangement view is where I put the icy on the cake🤣😂

[@Alckemy]

Hello! Great question no, I’d still be with bitwig from the other features although I miss midi capture

[@Mixxwizard]

Copy that, I can see were a producer who is creating music from scratch. Bitwig has more than enough features to get them up & going.

[@rumblechannel6343]

Bitwig has a whole bunch of follow actions (actually more than Ableton), and it can also display the session view top down as Ableton does. However, with M4L and some other scripts you can drill down deeper with Live.

[@Mixxwizard]

Thanks for the reply Rumble

[@FotoxBr_nl]

I am just an amateur in Bitwig and Ableton. I want to like Bitwig, but the one thing I am struggling with in Bitwig is setting up input and output for my external synth editor VST's. For instance the editor for my SE-02 or Blofeld. Probably it can be done, but to me it seems more transparent in Ableton.

[@Alckemy]

It’s super similar, just grab the external cv device and search for your instrument, should sync midi clock and all that

[@alexandersorbas1881]

put the one shot into slice mode and change the pitch +12 or -12 tape style

[@spiralmoment]

The biggest disadvantage that made me ditch live was that you can't make your own key commands. That's just a total no go for me, if at least the native key commands were cleverly made, but they're total shit. There was a couple of other things especially working with hardware that also sucked big time. But I really like how it looks and how simple it is to work with. And I like its native plugs as well.

[@TonyThomas10000]

Amazing comparison video...thanks! BTW, you can import projects from Ableton and FL Studio into Bitwig (with some limitations, of course).😃

[@Alckemy]

I think this video was pre update for that but yes definitely:)

[@nicknadym]

12:40 - These hints cannot be selected and copied for translation into another language. It would be better if they made these tips on their website to open in a browser and translate. This would be the best solution for the community.

[@Alckemy]

I’m pretty sure bitwig has multiple language support though…

[@d_kazar]

i never saw or heard anything which came even close to what ableton users are doing with max for live devices when it comes to experimental sampling, sound design possibilities, weird midi sequencing, audio fx and and and..yes there is this grid in bitwig, but then please somebody show me sth really interesting what you do with it that you couldnt do with max for live devices!

[@Alckemy]

Hello! They are very different devices aimed at achievement different things. Max is a beast of its own focusing on building synths and devices independently where as the grid is a modular environment. I think polarity on KZbin has the coolest grid devices I’ve seen and would definitely point you there to see what it can do

[@d_kazar]

@@Alckemy ok i will check those :)