ENGINE REBUILD | 165hp Rotax Upgrade Edge Performance vs Rotax 915is - BUILD Part 2

This is Part 2 of how we installed a #EP912STi 165HP Edge Performance engine on a Kitfox 7!!!
We go behind the scenes at Edge Performance to see how they build a 165hp MONSTER engine.
We answer some reliability questions and compare it to the Rotax 915is?
PART 01: • 165hp Engine in a KitF...
PART 02: • ENGINE REBUILD | 165hp...
PART 03: • ENGINE INSTALL | 165hp...
Edge Performance Dealer Map:
www.edgeperfor...
Our Kitfox build will have the Edge Performance Bigbore upgrade, Fuel Injectors and a bigger Turbo
turning 115hp into 165hp!!!
We'd like to invite you to [ SUBSCRIBE ]...It's FREE and it lets us know you would like us to make more videos for YOU to enjoy!
Thanks for watching!
Edge Performance Costs:
Rotax 914 conversion costs around €14 500.
The ULS conversion will cost you €16 500
And a brand new STI from Edge Performance costs €29 500
For even more adventures follow us on,
Instagram: / about2stall
and
Facebook: / about2stall
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#tailwheel #kitfox #backcountry #flying #rotax 915
#edge performance #EP912STi #private pilot #backcountry flying #rotax 915is #edge performance engine

[@nottoolatetofly371]

Great channel guys. Im a South African expat in Canada. I fly a C182, but love your channel and especially your enthusiasm! SA’s own ‘flying cowboys’.... giving Trent, Cory and those guys a run for their money! Keep it up!!

[@About2Stall]

Thanks Magnus! This means alot🔥 We will most definitely keep it up! Enjoy the C182! It's a great aircraft!

[@Flightstar]

I did what you told me. I smashed the like button as hard as I could. Now my mouse is in pieces. Thanks a lot. Next time I think I will just click lightly.

[@About2Stall]

🤣 Thanks, this made my day! Sorry about your mouse, clicking lightly next time is fine by me😁 Have a great one!

[@jimjam623]

Nice one guys! Great joint effort on the video shooting with EP too - can't wait for Part 3!!

[@About2Stall]

Thanks Hamish! Yeah, they made an exceptional effort on their side! Thomas really is an amazing guy to work with!

[@ExperimentalAircraftChannel]

Looking forward to this PART 2 episode! :-)

[@About2Stall]

Thanks! Can't Wait to share this amazing build by Edge Performance!!

[@ruanbotha8245]

Part 2😁 can’t wait 🛩

[@About2Stall]

😁🎉🎉

[@louisvanrijn3964]

Welding the crank. (2:35) A good step. The Rotax cranck is pressfit from loose pieces. I have waited for the moment someone would either install a forged crank, or some thing equal : weld it to a solid, one piece. Key to high load endurance are the oil-sprayers, either for cooling or laying the oil film exactly there where it is needed.

[@About2Stall]

Thanks for joining us at the PREMIERE! We'd like to invite you to [ SUBSCRIBE ]...It's FREE and it lets us know you would like us to make more videos for YOU to enjoy! Thanks for watching!

[@nicholaschriss1706]

I can definitely see his passion.....they should have used subtitles so I can understand what this guy is saying.

[@flexairz]

Spoiler alert: its English

[@About2Stall]

😂👍🏼

[@oldschoolmotorsickle]

That’s a lot of engine for the cost! Especially good value is the re-manufacturing of the Rotax core.

[@reidwardle3992]

Baie goeie video! Knap gedaan, manne! Content is excellent! Full of good information. Well worth the subscription. Keep them coming.

[@About2Stall]

Dankie! waardeer dit! Appreciate the comment and feedback!

[@markdoan1472]

We of course in the back country aviation world eat this stuff up , be it flight characteristics of the airframe , cool flying locations , fun people and what have you .... but dish us up some engine performance modifications and that seriously catches our attention ... Edge Performance is looking to be the world wide leader and gold standard on this front .... Love your guys videos .. In my must watch list along with Trent , Jonas , the Paty's etc.

[@About2Stall]

Thank you Mark! That means alot, and yeah Edge Performance has really treated us well and their work speaks for itself! Thanks again, we appreciate the great feedback!

[@RaymondRChammas]

This channel is all about more HP.....sounds like a winner *subscribed* *notifications* done

[@About2Stall]

Yep! Thanks Raymond!😁

[@lourenslourens5002]

Well done. Live that enthusiasm. It's very informative.

[@About2Stall]

Thank you, appreciate the feedback!😁

[@why_the_hell_not8789]

I got my eye on you guys. You definitely got my attention I'm thinking about getting a Bushman airplane AKA kit Fox. One of the issues that's dragging my feet is the Power plantfor the airplane. so I'm paying very close attention to you guys.🤔😏😊

[@About2Stall]

That's awesome man! Hopefully you'll find this series of videos helpful in your choice! If you have any questions please feel free to ask anytime!

[@why_the_hell_not8789]

@@About2Stall THANKS! ! !

[@robw4ltz408]

Lekker vid. Interesting to see how your speeds will change by loosing that weight . 1/ cruise, stall, landing approach for bush strips. 2/How much quicker to stop and take off. Do you now need to alter your prop ?.

[@About2Stall]

Thanks! Yeah we are really curious and can't wait for this Coronavirus to blow over- so we can finally get to flying and testing!

[@ThomasMarrow]

That engine is quite something and the Edge branding is very nice! One question - do you still follow Rotax service bulletins or does Edge have their own?

[@About2Stall]

Good question! I'll get back to you in a bit...

[@About2Stall]

Directly from Edge Performance : "The reason we transfer the Rotax SN is because if there are Sl, SB, ASB from rotax that affects the engine and the components NOT replaced by us the operator is able to comply. A good example was the black tip push rods and bad rocker arms a year or two back. Several EP engines were affected and needed to be updated. And yes, we do issue our own SB/ASB as well on our website."

[@azcoyote007]

How has the engine held up??

[@christotheron1840]

Very well done

[@About2Stall]

Thanks! Appreciate it 🔥

[@ClintEatWood]

Nice Engine, lower weight, compact, fuel injection. Though the Edge performance has a a shorter TBO of 1200 hours instead of the 2000 hours a Rotax 915 brings. This is causing a substantial higher depriciation. The 915 runs for 18,50$ per hour, the Edge Performance needs 26,80$ per hour.

[@Pork-Chopper]

Elementary my dear Watson. Heat is energy. The more heat, the more energy, the more horsepower. Increasing the bore means more fuel gets burned, hence, more heat, more energy, more horsepower. More horsepower comes at the expense of reducing engine service life or longevity. In this case the biggest gain is the new engine's lower weight, not necessarily the new horse power numbers. If you were to reduce the weight of the old rotax by the same amount, you would gain more useable horsepower because now the overall load is lighter. For the cost of the upgrade plus reducing TBO from 2000hrs to 1200hrs will make it even more expensive over the long haul. Swapping out the cam for one with a bit more duration will also give you a few more horses. Another thing to consider, can the aircraft handle the extra power?? How much power was the airframe designed to handle?? Sometimes more power is not the answer, but efficiency n reliability is.

[@TheJustinJ]

Few, if any private pilots will ever fly 1,200 hours in their entire life. ~ A 30-something year old Private Pilot w/120 hours.

[@ClintEatWood]

@@TheJustinJ hmm, this is not about how many hours you expect to fly in your life. The discussion is about the question does it make sense to buy an Edge performance instead of a standard Rotax 915.

[@julesviolin]

Have any of these modified engines reached 2000hr TBO yet? Asking for a friend

[@nottoolatetofly371]

Would love one day to do a fly-in safari with you guys like your Botswana trip...

[@About2Stall]

That would be great! Hit us up when you're heading this way, and we'll see what we can do😁

[@nottoolatetofly371]

About2Stall I will!

[@speedomars]

Edge looks professional...but why go with a rebuild aftermarket based on an old engine design when you can go with the same basic cruise HP from the OEM? The cost is about the same when you take into account the core needed to get to the $16k.

[@MrDrichter1011]

great video! question : how much was the upgrade ?

[@aryaeskandari4852]

Thanks Learned many things. Can we use Rotax engines in pusher propeller aircraft? I really need to know. main concerns are cooling and breathing.

[@CrossWindsPat]

I wanna put this in a Risen or modify the 915 to have even more power! That air frame with 170 hp would cruise at 200knts I know it! EDIT: ohh well never mind. Same continuous HP... Damn. Still 50 lbs lighter that alone is massive! this is a no brainer for anyone approaching TBO on a Rotax.

[@doncatchpole7370]

Good stuff.

[@About2Stall]

Thanks Don!

[@CarShopTanoshi]

Another epic one!! So many pessimists out here... Can’t wait to see that thing BOOOOST!

[@About2Stall]

Thanks Rhys! As there will always be...😋 And we can't wait to start flying!😁🔥

[@มดดํา-ภ5ต]

เครื่องยนต์ น่าสนใจมากมันเป็นเครื่องยนต์ระดับต้นๆ

[@robertsklimovichs]

Some time from the start with EDGE PERFORMANCE is gone. How do you like it?

[@happycamper6418]

What about the wiring harness? are there any changes made there that would affect the standard dash monitoring system that is used for the Rotax?

[@sansdecorum4600]

Edge Performance looks like a top shelf operation. In your first video, you mentioned proper prop selection for desired mission. Is an in-flight variable pitch prop available? That would make it more apples to apples when comparing flight performance to the 915 in Trent's Freedom Fox.

[@About2Stall]

Yes! The 75" 4-blade Airmaster Whirlwind that we have is in-flight adjustable similar to how Trent's MT prop is👍🏼😁

[@sansdecorum4600]

@@About2Stall Very cool. Looking forward to the rest of the build. Kind of raised an eyebrow at the thought of going all Charles Lindbergh over the Atlantic ocean in a souped up Kitfox, but I suppose Guiness might be interested; the beer manufacturer as well. Sponsership, anyone? If you covered the constant speed aspect of the prop in video #1, I must have been munching on nachos at the moment and didn't hear it over the crunching noises. I suppose most folk don't think of nachos as breakfast food. However, we bachelor types with the dietary constitution of a goat tend to eat whatever is handy, and I had leftover nachos and a toaster oven. ;) Much success on the build and have no end of fun flying the African Beast-Mastet.

[@About2Stall]

Thanks man! 🤣😋

[@norrisbrock1581]

I want the Cavelon autogyro with this Engine, can we do it ??

[@TheJustinJ]

There seem to be many misconceptions about adding horsepower reducing reliability. This is only true within certain conditions, adding more power by adding more boost to a stock engine will certainly reduce reliability and increase wear. Building a custom engine that combines several coherent upgrades to maintain or even improve reliability and reduce wear. High tech piston rings are an example. You can reduce blow-by, increase durability, and extend overhaul intervals by an order of magnitude with modern piston rings vs the old iron rings. You can add boost, increase power, use lower octane fuel, and still maintain fuel economy, and reduce cylinder head temperatures with a combination of lower compression pistons and better ECU control over fuel and timing. Its all in what you want to accomplish and the only limit is your ignorance.

[@matthewobregon4803]

both have 135 max continuous...what is the point.

[@About2Stall]

Short field takeoff and landing(STOL). The one can use a shorter runway and with STOL flying that is very important because most of the time you have no runway. The 135hp will take the kitfox through VNE. It is all about takeoff with a big engines on these slow AC. Hope this answers your question

[@robertwalsh5461]

A question...Does the Edge Performance 914 monster build include provisions for full FADEC? This is standard with the Rotax 915 is.

[@lpainter100]

The only other thing I could think of as an advantage to the Rotax would be airworthiness directives.

[@About2Stall]

That's true, Rotax does make a Certified version! It depends on what you are looking for... But 165hp!!?? That's why we love Experimental!

[@speedomars]

The 915iS is also all new and it's designed by the OEM from the ground up to perform as spec'd.

[@mattivirta]

were can buy used old rotax machines, i think need build some new, in thailand how ???? normal engine cost about 1000-2000$ maximum used.

[@MikeMike-er7kn]

Hello from Australia. I'm interested in fuel consumption at lower hp/rpm levels. (Economy cruise) In a high drag airframe 35 lph is not going to work out to a particularly long range. This is one of the things that put me off the 915.....

[@About2Stall]

Hi RJ! We will have all of those numbers once we start flying and doing cruise tests etc. Unfortunately due to the current Pandemic it's still going to be a while, but we'll be sure to make a detailed video about it as soon as we can!😁

[@amitdimri69]

can someone send engine overhaul mannual

[@ethanoost7936]

Nice video guys. Love the enthusiasm. I would love to go fly in South Africa. Keep up the good work.

[@About2Stall]

Thanks Ethan! We will absolutely keep it coming!

[@rogeronslow1498]

As you go higher in altitude for a given boost pressure the turbo spins faster. Is there a max allowable altitude at a given boost pressure or is the wastegate referenced to absolute pressure?

[@TheJustinJ]

See: "Turbocharger Critical Altitude".

[@marcusnouwens6333]

Quick question... if you send like a 1000 hour engine does this count as a overhaul? Do they have a limit to how old a engine can be?

[@About2Stall]

Maximum time 200hrs TTSN essentially and no older than 2-3 years. Otherwise they overhaul and then do the conversion.

[@aviator267]

🍿🍿

[@About2Stall]

🔥🔥

[@Merlin-pm4vm]

Got to be honest. I never like to be the first kid on the block with a new engine been there done that,, a lot, over my 35 yrs of flying light aircraft. The further you are away from stock the less reliable you will be.

[@About2Stall]

Well we are not the first - like we mentioned in the video, more than 250 such engines have been built since 2006 and none has failed. Some has more than 1200-1500 hours. So they have a perfectly good track record!

[@markdoan1472]

Edge performance is reputed to be the best ... and what many pilots who are familiar with hot rodding and racing cars don't understand is in back country airplanes you usually only use that power on takeoff and climb and only those times you need it ... a full 98% of the time your cruising at stock power levels , stressing the more strongly modified engine to stock stresses ... It is quite conceivable that these modified engines can last longer than stock because of this .... Thats the part most people miss ... The engine only gets stressed when you use the power ... and most of the time you don't use the power

[@tjflynn1014]

You stated that the Edge Performance engine has a TBO of about 1200 hours, doesn't the 915is have a TBO of 2000? I think that should have been included in the comparison too.

[@About2Stall]

According to Rotax the 915 has a TBO of 1200 as well. But I have heard of people saying they were able to get 2000... Not sure how accurate it is though.

[@warrenmassey4029]

Can you confirm what the upgrade will cost if you have an existing 914 motor. ..??

[@About2Stall]

Yeah sure! Our 914 (existing) upgrade cost around EUR 14 500.

[@warrenmassey4029]

@@About2Stall thanks so much. And tell me. The aircraft performance from the 914 to the edge upgrade. Was it a real noticeable increase in take off and cruise speeds ?.

[@About2Stall]

My Pleasure! It was a HUGE difference! Take offs are never longer that 130ft and cruise speed improved significantly

[@brianburch7868]

Is this performance upgrade safe to use in a gyrocopter?

[@About2Stall]

Yes! I believe there's quite a few of them flying

[@josephtrotter9640]

I want dual turbo! Is that being considered?

[@About2Stall]

I have no idea!😳

[@jetjox2000]

Why, no advantage on this application...

[@veriest1]

Does this run a backup ecu and fuel injection system? In the video I think you said ecu singular.

[@About2Stall]

They offer it, but no one wants to pay for it. And 1000 kits and engines with zero ecu failures is a really good track record!

[@veriest1]

@@About2Stall well, there's part of the price difference.

[@shabbirahmed9538]

There’s a discount in frice

[@billrandell4641]

The basic weakness of the "3 main" case is still there (and made worse with the extra HP!) ..At max rpm, your looking at a "Concave - Convex" distortion of nearly 1/8 of an inch!!.. This problem "Main Web Crawl" is going to severely hamper the lifespan of this engine..My whole problem with Rotex..If the Case had been copied after an old Porsche engine (which address's these problems) instead of a VW..This WOULD be a great conversion..The 3 Main Case will also have a tendency to crack in the back next to the "Rear Main" and have the Case and Head Studs "Pull" ...Dowel pinning the "Main Webs" using "Keen Cert" style stud inserts and literally building up the Case Webbing around the Rear Main will all help with these issues..but still leave a bunch more little weak areas to be addressed...You can easily see all these issues if you look at any High HP VW Dragster engine builds!!..These engines cost WAY MORE the the budget numbers you are using..Just a proper Rimco Case can run close to $10,000..Having raced VW's and Porsche's all my life and making my living building High HP Porsche's and VW'S gives me expertise on this subject..👍🇺🇸

[@PistonAvatarGuy]

~160 hp isn't really enough to cause any of the major issues that you're describing here, you're talking about things that happen with VW engines making much higher power numbers.

[@alexpl812]

Could you tell me please what is the critical altitude for 13hp continues power? I tried to contact edge performance about that but did not get any reply.

[@About2Stall]

Hi Aleksandr, I'm assuming you're referring to the 130hp non-turbo engine? Thomas from Edge Performance told me: "There is no critical altitude really. They are fuel injected and will work to 25.000’ easily" Hope this helps?

[@alexpl812]

@@About2Stall 135hp. Sorry for the typo. Rotax 915is provide full takeoff power (141hp or 135hp continues) up to 15000 ft sometimes up to 17000ft and higher at cool weather. So I am wondering what is the critical altitude for this engine to provide continues 135hp above witch it starts to lose power. I understand that it is not that critical from STOL aircrafts, but it can be very important for Sling TSI building. Thank you so much for your reply! Subscribed!

[@About2Stall]

Pleasure! Glad I could help🔥

[@alexpl812]

@@About2Stall Could you ask your friends from edge performance what is the critical altitude of their engine after which it starts to lose power?

[@ImNotADeeJay]

because dropping 40k in the stock engine alone doesn't feel good enough

[@b.snoodleman5864]

I honestly don't understand the insane prices of everything having to do with any kind of aircraft. Almost $40.000 for a 915 cc mostly air cooled engine that is derived from the VW bug engine that was designed in the 1930's. Yes Rotax makes great engines but that isn't $40.000 great. For example The Ford 5.2L ALUMINATOR 5.2 XS CRATE ENGINE is a all aluminum DOHC 4V per cylinder V8 that is far more modern and sophisticated that is built with absolute precision in it's tolerances and is way more complex to build and make 580 HP at half the price. That's half the price for 5 times the engine. Why is it that all other engine manufactures in the world can produce engines that are all competitively priced. just seems like they are charging that much because they can.

[@About2Stall]

I absolutely agree with you, but to some extent I do think "aviation tax" come into play... The cost of development for Aviation is much higher than for cars.

[@b.snoodleman5864]

@@About2Stall Yes the development cost are very high indeed. If you include the certification cost's as well its crazy expensive. I realize manufactures will have to recoup that money by increasing the price of there newer products but the engine the 915 is just an forced induction fuel injected version of the 912 that has been around since 1984. Those development cost's must be payed off by now. It's not just Rotax, Lycoming and Continental are still making engines that have been developed over 50 years ago a they still want a arm and a leg for one. A model T cost over $1000.00 when it first came out and by the time it was discontinued it was less than $250.00. What ever happen to those days.

[@About2Stall]

Yeah... Unfortunately we just have to suck it up and deal with it if we want to fly 🙈

[@b.snoodleman5864]

@@About2Stall Yup, that's the way it is. Happy flying.

[@hasanayahnurul2184]

How kg this engine

[@About2Stall]

It's 68kg

[@rotaryperfection]

50" of manifold pressure is basically a little over 4lbs of boost correct?

[@jselectronics8215]

No, 30 inches is atmospheric, so 20 inches more is about 10psi.

[@tonylam9548]

It is NOT the reliability I am concern about, it is the value for my money. 1) I have to provide an already expensive Rotax, 2) I have to pay Edge, 3) all that for a small 24 HP gain. I could have got that by just using a Yamaha , Aero Momentum, Honda engine for much less. Rotax , UL etc did not do aviation any favor by making it affordable for many.

[@AV8R_1]

I’m still dying to know why they haven’t come up with a six cylinder yet

[@About2Stall]

I don't know. Wil have to ask Thomas

[@philkennedy8683]

simply, the exhausts point out sideway, which is ok on a 4 but would clash on a 6

[@nosakhareosamudiamen1577]

I live in Nigeria and interested in making my own helicopter with a high performance engine which can take me less than $15000

[@mattivirta]

i understand used motor cost 2+3000€ but i not newer understand used motor cost 10-16000$ why thats has only used steel, not gold and diamonds.

[@PaulAnthonyDuttonUk]

But... You get fadec with the 915 and some nice stickers. Joking aside the resale value of the 915 will be worth close to RRP where as with the edge you are gonna drop 10 or so out the gate so you should have included a residual value if you wanted to do a like for like on cost. Basically the 915 gives u an extra 10 in the piggy bank by comparison meaning your balance sheet will be healthier with the stock Rotax. Capital cost is not the point of win or lose, it just gets you into the game.

[@paulsnook5408]

Not interested in bhp figures Number one on power is torque. Torque is king. That’s why formula one engines makers never tell there torque figures a big secret

[@DanFrederiksen]

It's very cool but they need to make their own engines instead. Rotax engines are massively overpriced so starting with that and doing a lot of extra work is not a smart plan. Since you lose certification. They should really make their own. Optimized in every way. And aim for a much lower price. Say 150 turbo horses for 10k. And get it certified. That would be a 915 killer. And it deserves to be killed.

[@About2Stall]

That's true, it would be really cool! I'll ask Thomas about it, but I definitely think there's a market for it!

[@WattsUpDev]

A (certified) 915 Killer for 10k .,, boy boy dreams and fictional imagination get better and better everyday 🤣

[@SVAyouTube]

68kg (!) of 165hp poooweeeerRRRR!!!!

[@About2Stall]

Yeah!!🔥🔥

[@TROUROCKS]

yamaha f1

[@___Alex_Sed___]

++++

[@etiennem9415]

I'm wondering how you could justify losing factory support (ADs, SBs, easy acces to parts) for 20HP over a Rotax 915iS. You even get the same HP for continuous power... I remember in your first video doing this upgrade for safety. You do not make your take-offs and landings safer by adding horsepower through an engine that is a pimped up version of a lower HP engine. I totally understand that you will have to check every 50 hours for leakdown, you are pushing the engine above the limit every time you take-off with it. On the long run, it may end up costing you more to maintain the conversion engine vs a factory 915iS. Just my 2 cents.

[@davidvanniekerk3813]

Ek wil mos segt die aksent is AFRIKAANS! Prima man. Hou so aan! (149.9LB = 68kg. 186.4LB = ?kg. 141pk = 105.75kW & 165pk = 123.75kW)

[@About2Stall]

Dit is inderdaad só, ja!😂 Baie dankie ons sal beslis voortgaan!

[@GavinY]

PISSSton

[@cannonroberts5129]

Please stop making your own sound effect noises. I enjoy your enthusiasm however the BOOF sound is not needed.

[@About2Stall]

Thanks for the feedback Cannon! Appreciate it!

[@julianvalencia3442]

Que sea en español

[@bruno0706]

Bye rotax 🤣🤣