AC Indoor Fan Not Running, X13 Motor, Rotation Sensing and Change Rotation

In this video, I'll be going over the X13 ECM control board and a couple of new things that I learned. The information could be of great help to the DIY people out there.
If you're interested in troubleshooting the ECM with details, check out this video. • House A/C Unit - X13 E... And finally, the link to where I purchased the ECM control board is located here supplyhouse.com/
Thanks for watching!

[@TheGibby3340]

Interesting…My furnace/AC is 22 years now, so classic drive and control. But It’s a near certainty it’s replacement will be of this design. The “rotation learn” sequence is very clever indeed. Thx Terry. Cheers 👍

[@stuzman52]

Hi Ian and you're correct that if you buy a new unit, it will surely have this monstrosity on it. In the older days, systems came with a PSC motor and in the future as mentioned in the video, I'll be replacing it with that. Have a great day!

[@knight3599]

Terry is so wonderful his videos help me with so much homework.

[@stuzman52]

Thank you very much!

[@jmpugh]

Hey Terry. Just wanted to say thanks for the video. Had a bad module and learned alot from this video while I was waiting for it to ship.

[@stuzman52]

Glad to hear that the video helped out! Have a great day!

[@sdrtech]

Thank you this is one of the best informational videos on KZbin

[@stuzman52]

Thanks for watching and glad the video was helpful! Have a great day!

[@beachwave2]

Very complete video thank you. Right now my speed wires are on white to #4 and blue to #2 . I have a small 1500 sq ft house and motor or fan speed noise is bearable but kinda loud. Where do you recommend hooking up those wires to make ac/fan sound quieter ? I did look at your diagram but was not sure if I can change wire location. I just installed a new motor with module attached. Thank you.

[@myriammilyroman3448]

Hello there Mr. and Mrs. Stuzman: we really appreciate your video, especially since we are experiencing exactly the same issue with our unit here in Florida. We have a Genteq x13 1/3 hp. on a heat pump made by Carrier( Comfort Maker.) I replaced the bearings and it worked fine for weeks. But after losing power due to a power outage during Hurricane Ian, the unit came on for a few hours but it stopped working once again, causing it to freeze up. I have taken it apart and checked the thermistor and it reads about one ohm, of course sinking the leads of my meter thru the thermal compound and trying to make a good connection blindsided. My request to you is this; would you be bold enough to try to find a way to remove that rubbery compound without causing any other damage to the board or its circuitry. I would love to repair this one, since around here every quote I get from the HVAC companies is way out of our reach, and too expensive. In the thousands to be moderate. I read somewhere about a solution that dissolves that rubbery material, but I can't remember where! Any thoughts would be appreciated, keep up the good work. Love seeing couples helping each other thru bad times and enjoying the fruit of their labor, what an inspiration! Thank you, Reinaldo and Myriam Roman.

[@stuzman52]

I've thought the same thing too Myriam about what product could dissolve that rubbery compound. I did look into this awhile back, but never pursued it any further. I saw one video where a fella here on KZbin boiled the board in boiling water. And another was using WD-40. Of course, I didn't see anything specific to the electronic board as on the Genteq. And I don't know if any of these methods are effective. On the first unit that went out, I did take a pick and got a lot of the material out. But it was a tedious process and I wouldn't recommend it. Sorry about not offering any help. I guess that's how manufacturer's don't want anyone repairing these units. Have a great evening!

[@GeorgeKennedy-u4r]

Yes, some Florida HVAC people are actually thieves.

[@spelunkerd]

It's been fun to learn about how these systems work, but the new X13 motors are a little intimidating as far as diagnosis goes. Our heat pump is fine when weather is moderate, but at the extremes of heat or cold the heat pump is not so great outside of its ideal working range. It would be nice to have some kind of trouble codes to help with diagnosis, akin to theOBDII system in cars.

[@jkbrown5496]

Check out Ty Branaman's channel. He's doing a full training suit and really gets into what the refrigerant is doing based on symptoms and measurement.

[@stuzman52]

Having a micro controller on it could help with things like reading the pressures and temps without hooking up gauges and temp probes. Of course, that would raise the price of the units and you still would have to intervene to what the actual problem is just as diagnosing cars when you get a code. Have a great day Dave!

[@spelunkerd]

@@stuzman52 Terry, if I may be so bold, would you be kind enough to glance at my most recent video? I need your seasoned advice regarding whether I should follow through with installing a hard start kit for a scroll compressor on a heat pump. I paid the extra price of getting OEM parts for a hard start kit, but it turned out that simply replacing the run cap solved the problem. Even so, it's an old compressor, and I'd like to do everything I can to prolong its life. Is there any downside to hard start kits on scroll compressors?

[@GeorgeKennedy-u4r]

Great instructional video!

[@stuzman52]

Thank you George!

[@hernanmorillo2431]

Hi, I need help, my Rheem HVAC RF1T unit for apartment model and blower motor was changed to ECM genteq 1/3 ho 208/230 volt... connect it to medium speed T3 and when I do it, turn ON the thermostat is fine but when I put it on AUTO on thermostat and cold A/C turns on because the blower starts at maximum speed and doesn't let me sleep... I see that in the speed connection it has a green wire in T1 and a blue wire in T3... what should I do? I want it to be medium speed and not regulated.

[@randy1ization]

some of the higher end air handlers have a ramping feature that you can program with dip switches.. some also have continuous mode, where the fan runs very slowly continuously all the time.. this keep an even temp in the house because the air is constantly being moved and the thermostat is sampling the temperture. I like the ramping feature because it also acts as a dehumidifier . you can have it ramp up at different speeds over a specific time frame.. like start at 10 percent, then in 3 minutes, it slowly ramps to 50 percent, then 70, then 100..

[@stuzman52]

Thanks for added info and have a great day!

[@laszlozoltanantal7344]

Hello sir. I enjoy watching your channel. I saw in the videos posted earlier that you worked on a 2.0 liter Ford Escape. I also have the same car and i would like to know where the coolant temperature sensor is located. With much respect,thank you.

[@laszlozoltanantal7344]

@@stuzman52 Hello sir. I received the desired file. Thank you and I wish you good health. Sincerely,Laszlo.

[@jkbrown5496]

Not a lot you can fix on those boards except the inrush limiter which is sticking out of the potting. The rest is a rectifier/inverter/motor driver with often proprietary programming on the chip. I depotted an oil level alert module for small engines and it was a pain, also it was just a resistor and diode on a board so easy not to damage digging it all out. I have wondered if it is worth while to put a bulkhead inrush limiter on the mains to perhaps save the stress on the modules. Those big caps pull heavy on being powered. I have a variable ECM but my indoor unit has gone through 2 case mount breakers, they last about 4 years. And the breaker goes out in summer, on the weekend. Last one I replaced myself as a tech was going to be 2 days due to the workload.

[@stuzman52]

Hi JK and you're correct that it's just not the effort to clean out all that gunk. I've tried it before on other boards, and you'll wind up destroying the board, components before you can get it clean. It's strange that you're having circuit breakers going out as something is not normal. I assume that you've already checked the amperage and voltage drop across the contacts of the breaker. Have a great day!

[@jkbrown5496]

@@stuzman52 As I changed the breaker this time instead of it being a warranty repair, I opened up the failed breaker. It has corrosion. Apparently, there’s a condensation problem. Indoor unit is in the crawl space. I’d already been thinking of putting an external disconnect on the unit since the breaker leaves live mains right in your face when working inside the cabinet even when off.

[@stuzman52]

@@jkbrown5496 That would be a great idea JK and should be a lot safer too. Have a great day!

[@jkbrown5496]

@@stuzman52 I looked into the breaker more closely. Only a small amount of corrosion (rust) but it ate the spring on the switch lever that held the contacts closed when "on". So my contacts had arced until they failed. However, after more thought. This spring that rusted and broke is also the one that breaks the contacts when the bimetal/thermal assembly reaches a fault condition. So how long the breaker was in a state where it was closed but would not trip, I don't know. As I said this is the 2nd one replaced, they seem to stop conducting after 4 years, but when the spring rusted out, who knows. Method of failure seems to be with the body of the breaker in the cabinet electrical section, but with the face/switch sticking out, outside air is being drawn in from, in my case the crawlspace, but HVAC Guy replaced on not long ago in an attic. This humid air, I live in TN, condenses on the spring causing it to rust out. (the other leg of the breaker, without the switch lever has no corrosion.). So I will be going with an external fused disconnect and until I remove the inline breaker probably put some dielectric grease around the switch opening to impede air infiltration. This is a blower unit design flaw for these through cabinet panel breakers installed in unconditioned space.

[@stuzman52]

@@jkbrown5496 Sounds like a good plan JK by installing a fused disconnect to get it away from the air handling unit. Good luck with your project and have a great day!

[@charlesforte6473]

Thank you Sir...Excellent Video !!!

[@stuzman52]

Thank you Charles for watching and for the comment! Have a great day!

[@donlaunius27]

Where did you buy that module from? I need the same exact one three-quarter horse.

[@stuzman52]

Sure, it was purchased from www.evergreenEM-motors.com In my case, the module was for a 1/2HP, not 3/4HP as you mentioned for yours.

[@user-ty2uz4gb7v]

My blower motor went out, it's an x13 ECM by genteq very similar to what you showed. But I only paid $275 shipped for an entire new motor from Amazon. I have seen many ECM repair videos and I agree they are not reliable enough. Mine went out after 8 years. Pulling the motor is way too much work to do in a hot attic or crawl space every 8 years. I tested the inrush current limiter on mine and it is good, but mine is fully potted like yours with black silicone. I don't know what else I could do if I can't find a way to remove the silicone.

[@stuzman52]

Yes, it's a pain when you can't troubleshoot an individual component because of the potting. Some people dump this motor and replace is with a PSC type motor. Have a great day!

[@GeorgeKennedy-u4r]

@@stuzman52 Do you know if there are vids/help out there discussing how to switch back to PSC motors when unit goes out of warranty? Seems like a 24v relay and a PSC motor would do the trick? Just seems like a matter of the pick-up current of the relay coil so as not to damage the control board, or use a solid state relay.

[@stuzman52]

@@GeorgeKennedy-u4r I remember seeing a few videos on KZbin showing the procedure. It's basically where the HP is the same, whether the motor is 120 or 240V, the shaft diameter and length are the same. And of course a relay to switch the high voltage to the motor. Other than that, it's a simple swap out of the motor.

[@GeorgeKennedy-u4r]

@@stuzman52 Yep, just saw one and it looks like a simple swap as long as I get a similar motor (HP, speed).

[@wyattoneable]

I could have used your skills a month ago. I had guests staying over in the garage guest room and it was a hot, humid night. I set the thermostat to 73 degrees and it couldn't keep up. The outside unit line were frozen by morning. Once I set the thermostat to 75 it cycled and cooled off the room. Was I just asking too much from the unit?

[@stuzman52]

Hey Wyatt! If you have the line frosted all the way back to the compressor, I would say that you got a problem. Causes of this could be air filter plugged, indoor fan not running or fast enough and the most likely cause would be low on refrigerant. Have a great day!

[@wyattoneable]

@@stuzman52 Thanks for the tips!

[@stuzman52]

@@wyattoneable You're welcome!

[@randy1ization]

@@stuzman52 as a professional HVAC contractor for 30 years, I can tell you that low refrigerant is usually the least common culprit.. especially if it has no prior history of leaking,, refrigerant doesnt escape, wear out, dissapate, evaporate , ect,, the only way it disappears is if u have a leak... dirty filter or clogged evaporator coil is usually the problem,., out of every 25 a coils I would check on A/C units usually at least half of them needed to be cleaned. a bad fan capacitor can cause the fan to run slow. also the sheet insulation that lines the fan housing can come unglued and pull up against the blower housing , blocking the air flow.. too small of a return air grill or a blocked grill can cause poor airflow as well.

[@stuzman52]

@@randy1ization Thanks for the info and have a great day!

[@michaeltemple895]

Thanks for the great video.

[@stuzman52]

Thanks for the comment Michael and wishing you and your family a Merry Christmas!

[@bygonebob]

These ECMs go bad mainly due to line surges and spikes. Protect the high voltage line to your air handler aka furnace with a surge arrestor or if you want just the blower motor only go with the Zebra X13PR surge protector built specifically for X13 motors. The only problem with protecting the motor only instead of the whole furnace is that once the Zebra is used up or burnt out, it will cut power to the blower motor and you end up having an iced up evaporator coil.

[@stuzman52]

Thanks for the comment and have a great day!

[@beachwave2]

Some people just soder a new cheap thermistor to module for a cheap fix and in most cases it starts to work fine. It's a straight forward procedure you just snip the thermistor soder new one . Just FYI.

[@emcinc9654]

I just replaced motor and module as one unit. Got it from same place as you. My module was doing something I’ve never seen before. On mine this time the fan was running all the time. The problem was not the setting on the thermostat. It was problem in the control module. It is working fine now with new motor and module.

[@randy1ization]

this is called twinning of the motor windings.,,. on some units, say just for the gas furnace control the power plug has to be twinned from the 120 volt feed.. usually all you have to do is swap the hot and neutral where the plug hooks to the furnace power inlet. they are making hvac systems alot more complicated than they need to be.. govt pushes for higher efficiency which is fine, but your not saving any money having to fork out several hundered to a thousand dollars every 4 or 5 years.. a PSC motor that is oiled every year, is kept clean, and balanced will last 20 years no problem.,. I had an hvac system in my first house that was problem free for 27 years, still worked fine when I sold it,, the only thing I ever replaced was a contactor, because they tend to wear out over time and the contacts can arc and weld together. I used a high quality washable filter, and cleaned the blower wheel and motor every few years.. nowdays start and run capacitors are higher failure rate due to poor quality, and frequent voltage spikes in the power grid. you may want to order and keep an extra capacitor and contactor for your unit on hand. if the unit does not have a start capacitor on it, I like to add one,, it lets the compressor start nice and easy every time,, they are called hard start kits.. theres just 2 wires that plug onto your run capacitor.. the kit has its own start relay built into the capacitor. I also put hard start capacitor kits on my fridge and freezers.. the compressor will last forever if you do this.and its very easy.. 2 wires go to the power feed going to the compressor, and the other 3 wires go to common start and run.. you can throw the dinky relay and thermodisc away thats on the compressor. we have alot of refrigerator and freezers go down due to power surges.. the surge either cracks the little thermodisc on the compressor which opens the circuit..the hard start devices do not use a thermodisc.. if your compressor wont start, you pull the factory relay off the compressor and shake it,, if it rattles the thermodisc inside is broken.

[@richardkay6]

Hi...i have the same motor like your's which i replaced the whole motor i only have one lead going to the motor it say high speed i replaced it with genteq x13 same company just the motor isn't running fast enough i cleaned the condensers they where dirty but still feels still not fast enough is there any other way of speeding this motor ohh i have the 115vac which i forgot to plug in the white jumper but still it was running after i put the jumper for 115vac it dual voltage 220 without jumper 115 with a jumper any ideas for speed controls on this

[@richardkay6]

It has a keepright control board HK42FZ066 cebd431102-04-ra

[@stuzman52]

Hi Richard! There isn't a way to increase the speed as it's been programmed in the EEPROM at the factory. If you have access to the dedicated programmer, then you should be able to reprogram the speed. You could call the place of purchase and see if they may have any other insight on your issue. Have a great day!

[@richardkay6]

Thanks very much

[@stuzman52]

@@richardkay6 You are welcome!

[@AbdulRehman-dn8vg]

Hello sir what white jumper please explained

[@Aventuras_en_Moto_Hn]

Thumbs up!!!

[@stuzman52]

Thanks Lawrence!

[@zygotepeyote]

sl22 1r020 thermistor

[@stuzman52]

Yes, in some cases the thermistor will open which was not the case for me. Have a great day!

[@zygotepeyote]

@@stuzman52 It wasn't for me either. Have a new module on the way. Just curious, did you ohm out the motor and if so what readings did you get? Thanks for posting...great info!

[@stuzman52]

@@zygotepeyote Yes, I went though all of the preliminary checks as resistance checks on the windings and to see if they were grounded. I did an earlier video which shows more detail with this procedure among other things. Here is the link kzbin.info/www/bejne/p4XNhY2bqq-EacU Have a great day!