Acheron vs Jingliu : Who Offers Better Investment Value in Honkai Star Rail

[@EODGamerSG]

If youre a spender this video will help you for the top up refresh - kzbin.info/www/bejne/bIu7cpeur8eYm6M

[@a.m.5060]

Je

[@benjaminroe311ify]

It's a pretty easy decision for me. I will only have about 100 pulls ready for end of Acheron's banner so that's only enough for maybe 50% chance to get her. Meanwhile I could likely have close to 200 pulls ready by end of 2.1 and don't have jingliu yet either. So I will probably go for Jingliu. The thing that is giving me a bit of hesitancy is my other main DPS is DanIL and the way he and Jingliu go about clearing content is so similar maybe I SHOULD go different main DPS than destruction. BUT... I don't have the best DOT champs to pair with Acheron, no Black Swan... no Kafka. Maybe I should just pull aventurine instead lol. As I have Fu Xuan but other side struggles. Ah well... I have time.

[@pansy4538]

i guess u dont need kafka or black swan to pair with acheron if u have pela and guanaifen plus 1 sustain for acheron team its a decent team i think. but still acheron and jy both good in there own right

[@MagicalNigachu]

Considering how popular Kafka and JY is, i reckon plenty of people already have lightning coverage. In contrast, JL is the only good ice dps we have rn

[@Itachiflameamaterasu]

Thing is Acheron ignores toughness so that's not even a good argument for JL.

[@sahibsingh7358]

Me with no Kafka or jy and with jl 🧍

[@JohnDoe-si4eg]

@@Itachiflameamaterasuher toughness ignore total and total amount of ults she can do per cycle at low investment isn’t enough to be relevant.

[@Friday-p13]

Lol. JY. Popular in a good way or bad way?😅

[@AndreLuiz-vi8bq]

​@@Friday-p13 With sparkle is good way

[@starfield19]

imo, jingliu offers a lower investment that you need to build her. With her crit rate buff, relics selection, and team comp selection, she is just a better choice esp for f2p u can use herta shop lc and still clear most content rn.

[@starfield19]

@@JJ-mn3nd I clearly said "lower investment that you need" and still connected to the title of the video, right? So in my side lower investment equals better investment value if both acheron and jingliu can help players to enjoy the game.

[@dynnelsam]

totally agreed with you

[@Ares_XO]

keep in mind that hoyoverse will always let any 5 star character clear any content in the game because if they shift the game from this to a point where they force you to pull specific characters to move on they will lose more than the 50% of their player base which would be so stupid from them.@@JJ-mn3nd

[@danielak1666]

Well, Jing Liu has a higher ceiling than Acheron so she works better at low investment, but lower ceiling hence she won't improve as much if you want to give her more investment

[@Friday-p13]

I used my Jingliu to finish all contents. She's freakin' amazing. Just wanna have a new toy, so I'll go for Acheron.😂

[@ArkrideSolutionsOffice]

I'm biased towards Acheron, but Jing Liu is better for newer players in terms of difficulty to build and teams. If you're not getting E2 Acheron, you still need 2 nihility and need to decide between sustain or harmony for the 4th slot.

[@sinnlos-erfolg5869]

Thats not a hard choice sustain ez the extre 60% she gets from her trace is better than having a harmony charakter

[@actualspiders]

@@sinnlos-erfolg5869The extra 60% is less than Ruan Mei provides in damage increase alone. Acheron/Nihility/Ruan Mei/Sustain is objectively better from a damage standpoint, since Ruan Mei also provides stacks for Acheron with her ult. But realistically, Acheron actually comes online when you get her E2, so you can run the above team and STILL get the 60%, for a total of 128% damage increase plus all the other benefits Ruan Mei provides, not to mention Ruan Mei's synergy with Acheron's colorless breaking.

[@ArkrideSolutionsOffice]

@sinnlos-erfolg5869 Right, but I'm highlighting the fact that players can't run harmony without sacrificing sustain. Just something for the meta people to consider.

[@Akira-ck3dy]

@@ArkrideSolutionsOffice or just try to 0 cycle kekw

[@ArkrideSolutionsOffice]

@Akira-ck3dy Your average F2P player does not 0 cycle. Not everyone is a try hard like that.

[@cordeliacentauri1737]

Ice characters while excluding yan qing...man that kid need some redemption arc. At the end of the day just pull whoever you want. The devs will make it relevant at some point because their whole monetizing system is based on selling characters.

[@mike_ewul]

imo, aventurine will guarantee's yanqing fua 100% uptime. it wont make him S tier but def removes that annoying part of his kit

[@Void_Everfrost]

the kit will keep relevant regardless. like how ruan mei buff dmg bonus and break so regardless of enemy, her value is always insane. so jingliu or acheron? jingliu is strong but if no ice weakness you gonna have a bad time. meanwhile acheron is aoe so enemy with many summons are useless, she have 20% all type pen so regardless of weaknesses she will easily clean up so always relevant. it is entirely up to your ability to analyze their kit to define their relevancy but some will ALWAYS have relevancy

[@xenoemblem7]

@@mike_ewulNot like Gepard has already been doing it

[@anwarshadaad1553]

​@@keneunaegbu851nah you just don't know how to build gepard

[@mike_ewul]

@@xenoemblem7 he can but let's be real, it's hard to refresh his shield since it's locked behind his ult, so yanqing gets hit still a couple of times. also aven provides a couple of buff and debuff, which yanqing appreciates.

[@Kres11037]

Jingliu's is my top pick for : - Better teambuilding - Better survivability to CC , her transmigratioon state gives her effect RES ( a good dps is a safe dps) - Despite being Ice, she's hot - Free crit rate - Works with current rosters and more attainable now these days (Bronya /ting E6) - Low SP Consumption, her skill not consuming skillpoints on transmigration

[@abbyy6361]

@@WAVE00799 LMAO HELP ME

[@Kres11037]

@@WAVE00799 Genuinely, respectfully, skill issue

[@yeaeku3518]

+ doesn't need to Ult to deal damage , both Jinlgiu's E and Ultimate does a lot of damage , while acheron is ultimate based character

[@ThaoHoang-pb2nq]

@@yeaeku3518 Acheron's skill does lots of damage

[@AndreLuiz-vi8bq]

​@@ThaoHoang-pb2nqNo

[@tangerine569]

I've got a ton of jades saved up and after watching the 2.1 livestream I was wondering who to pick. Great timing on this video 😂

[@kyo-wm3wb]

Been waiting for this from the goat himself! Amazingly helpful video as always

[@Dupingmaster]

Love the video. I would've loved to hear about their moc/pof performance. While the answer is probably both characters can do both activities well, would've loved to hear that part for their overall utility in all game modes for current and future gamemodes that you have predicted the game might come out with.

[@valkyrieregalia]

I'm an end game player so my perspective is a bit different. Acheron does have competition for some of her teams for very meta end game comps that aim to 0 cycle things like MoC. Like, at pre E2, Acheron's best team for that goal is technically as a sub dps in a high investment Kafka Black Swan Ruan Mei comp, in which she is competing against E6S5 Pearls Quin/Sampo. This is more of a consequence of something like an E1S1 tier Kafka+Black Swan+Ruan Mei being so powerful, that it overshadows Acheron as a core focus in a team at pre-E2, and because of the synergy that exists in such a team as Acheron will quickly get her ultimate even if she is mostly just using basics which is what you have to do in that team to maintain skill points. But, it works out with the strong flow of debuffs, that Acheron is Lightning and thus benefits from Black Swan's E1 which is active for Lightning because Kafka has a DoT, and because you can save Acheron's ult to use on the bosses turn where Black Swan's ult debuff is on them for 25% more damage, and because you have 3 instances of DoT's, Prisoner Set becomes very good on her, and because you have Ruan Mei, all three of these 5 star DPS are getting majorly buffed, which her E1 feeds into the defense shred stacking aspect to it further. It's not surprising that such a team is strongest for a pre E2 level Acheron. However, at E2, this changes as Acheron no longer needs 2 Nihility and thus can be hyper buffed by Harmony characters in which her best setups change due to that. But, some strong alternatives are, again, E6S5 Pearls Guin and Sampo since Kafka and Black Swan are able to gain so much from just more DoTs and debuffs being on the enemies. I am not actually sure who ends up being better between them. It might be fight dependent though. But, that is sort of an area where Acheron is facing strong competition. From a non end-game player perspective though, Jingliu does have additional benefits. Jingliu is going to be far easier to build than Acheron, and that matters, because there is a night and day difference between a built character vs. a non-built character. Jingliu only needs to get to 50 crit rate and everything else can be dumped mainly into just crit dmg. This is incredibly easy to do relative to other carries. Acheron needs both 70+ crit rate pre in-battle buffs and at least 160+ Crit Damage before she is at a comfortable build level, and that's much more relic intensive to achieve. Jingliu's ease of access to an acceptable relic status does matter. You will get to a place where she can dominate more quickly than Acheron who really needs a lot of pretty decent double crit substat relics. Also, Jingliu's other very appealing aspect is her very low skill point cost which is far more casual friendly, and she synergizes very well with Bronya without having to do extreme speed tuning to get the most out of both characters, and a lot of low spenders will have Bronya but not Sparkle since Bronya is a standard character you just get for free from standard pulls, or if you play long enough, from the 300 exchange. So, these aspects do also really matter a lot I'd say from that more casual type of player.

[@taecin]

New player here, thanks for the writeup! I was so torn between Acheron and JL but I think I'll end up going for JL since I'm already spread thin on relic investment on everyone and I have a Bronya that is collecting dust (my DPS's are JY and Ratio and I have Sparkle :'))

[@dltalian6736]

You're overestimating HSR players. 1. Most people don't pull for eidolons. Even in endgame, unless they're absolutely stacked. 2. Most people don't even have the standard 85/170 endgame gear. Some can't even get Jingliu past 230cd without sacrificing crate. A scuffed Jingliu will outperform most dps out there with the same level of investment. And I'm very sure these two statements apply to most people who watch this video too.

[@Lybrel]

@@dltalian6736nah, not “overestimating hsr players” as there are public records of the thousands who clear MOC12 for Prydwyn data. rather, OP has a disingenuous use of “end-game player” instead of saying “$1000+ neurodivergent” “end-game players” absolutely have perfect relics because they’ve had 300+ days to farm relics for just 5 characters (6 if you count rainbow leftover Crit Dmg trash for Bronya)

[@ravebae]

Is there a TLDR? 😅

[@vexuskraze8182]

​@@dltalian6736 True. Expecting E1S1 of multiple chars for specific teams is not the norm, even for endgame players. From an F2P perspective, people who chase the meta would usually just invest for more chars for variance. While the ppl that do roll eidolons, do it for other reasons like that char being their favourite. Things like eidolons are luxuries at best. E0S1 is probably a better standard of "minimum investment" when comparing meta performance for the general public.

[@XieRH1988]

One caveat about acheron is the constant need for inflicting debuffs. It's not like dr ratio where he only needs the debuff to already be there on the enemy. This could lead to SP hungry play styles if your debuffers have to keep using skills to reach your 9 stacks for the ultimate

[@magoomania6278]

Most of nihilty dont need to use skills to apply debuff like sampo, guin, silverwolf, blackswan, kafka..and the one that does need skill like pela, welt, luka, can use pearl of sweat lc as substitute..so i would rather say acheron team is sp positive

[@septianrico4141]

Also, combo with fire trailblazer if you have the universal trend market. Thats a super easy stacks man. Taunt for 1 stacks and depending the number of enemies hit mc, it will be fast ult 😂

[@unnamedhero5111]

imho, the problem is adjusting speed for other nihility team members, from other reviews it is said that Pela, SW need 160+ speed, insane and very hard to achieve.

[@magoomania6278]

@@unnamedhero5111 this is only needed if the stack generation comes solely from pela/silverwolf.. If u have a preservation unit with pearl sweat lc, or acheron lc, u dont need that 160 speed just 134 is enough..

[@marknavarro7497]

​@@magoomania6278whale character that's why, jingliu is just better e0 i saved up pulls for acheron but right now its time to skip 😢 nihility locked team comp is the biggest turn off

[@TheZackzable]

I have another problem. The new follow up set + sparkle and tingyun giving ting an E every turn thus pumping even more energy to the hypercarry made my Jingyuan an absolute beast. He even beat my Jingliu somehow. Now I have to think if archeron is even worth it . Jingyuan team and Jingliu team I am actually quite satisfied

[@sergiosanchezhernandez7508]

Do you have the jinggyuang light cone?

[@TheZackzable]

@@sergiosanchezhernandez7508 no, I actually have no signature LC at all

[@TheZackzable]

No, I don't have any signature LC at all

[@ThaoHoang-pb2nq]

@@TheZackzable which one are you using on jing

[@nat6lbg440]

Same, I am satisfied with my current account and will pull whoever is cool.

[@Taunt_1NG_U]

I would say at E0S1, JingLiu has a higher floor and lower ceiling, while Acheron has a lower floor with a MASSIVE ceiling w/investment

[@dltalian6736]

She scales off investment AND nihility units. Her current best team is comparable to Jing Yuan.

[@Lybrel]

E0S1 has a very, very lower floor and ceiling than two E0S0 unless you have Kafka and JY

[@camilaloaiza7731]

I hope people realize that she is strong but really specific and really doesn't make a big difference until you get her E2 and S1. Probably would improve with future units, but right now, feels like her teams are kinda meh. I'll skip and wait until her rerun to see what's going on. The only thing that I really want is her technique, SO COOL.

[@SaraGon15]

@@camilaloaiza7731 you dont need Harmony with her lol e2 is not a must stop the doomposting

[@Joo00393]

She already has alot of self buff, addibg another buff wont really make any difference, id prefer another dps or debuffer which is nihility

[@SakuraBloomRoblox]

This aged well😂

[@justjuniorjaw]

Jingliu gives great early game investment with how easy it is to build Crit, Acheron scales greatly with investment. That 2 Nihility buff goes wild, with E2 you can now even throw a Harmony with her.

[@Ares_XO]

well you said E2...so you need 3 copies of her, f2p players will never get 3 copies of a single character

[@danielak1666]

​@@Ares_XOf2p could get 3 copy of single unit if they actually want to. Most of them just prefer a wider rooster that's why it rare to see f2p with E2 character

[@han5260]

@@Ares_XO its possible, just pull 3 acheron in 1 multi and you can get her to e2

[@mike_ewul]

@@Ares_XO they can, if they saved enough

[@mrconan400]

Jingliu also scales good with invesment (her ceiling is so high). ppl always highlight the 100% CV (50% crit rate), but that 180% ATK buff is also crazy.

[@niigolover]

I have 194 pulls (+5 pity) so i'm pulling luocha for jingliu/blade/dhIL. Will pick acheron on rerun if i can't manage to get her. Would also love to pull jingliu's E1 but we'll see.

[@RndmGuy98]

I honestly completely disagree with the F2P thing. This may just be my personal opinion, so do keep that in mind. If we take just the base characters, the 4* on Acherons banner and what we currently have available, we can make a fully functional Acheron team that performs very well. We get Pela on her banner, Gallagher as well who can also debuff, then Fire mc for the taunt and we have an event (which will be available permanently mind you) which gives us a 4* selector, meaning we can just pick up Guinaifen and boom, we have a functioning team. Maybe if you didn't get the resolution shines as pearls of sweat lightcone, it will work a bit less, but still, not terribly. Now for Jingliu, what do we need in her team comp? A Tingyun, Probably a Loucha (Maybe Gallagher) to combat her Life drain, and you almost need a Bronya or Sparkle. Now, Tingyun is not given to us, she is a Gacha-exclusive Character. And I don't know if she will be on the Jingliu banner, but I wouldn't bet on it. And she also isn't on the 4* selector. Gallagher IS on the 4* selector, so we have a single team mate secured, and I don't think most F2P have Bronya and we can't get Sparkle now. In my experience, borrowing other people's Jingliu in weekly bosses, she feels miserable to run without a Bronya or Sparkle. So we either have an okay to good, maybe slightly lightcone lacking team for Acheron and a help-I-don't-have-any-of-her-good-teammates team for Jingliu.

[@Ezio15147]

jingliu's value might've dropped a tiny bit because enemies rn have less ice weakness,and other dps dhil has a perfect support (Sparkle) in comparison to her but that doesn't change the fact that she's still god tier,and most importantly she's easy to build,less sp hungry... she's perfect keep in mind the new boss have ice and lightning weakness tho another point to consider is bronya is jingliu's best support, and bronya is more attainable for every player comapred to limited 5 star supports so,take that into consideration

[@黄ヨウジュン]

jingliu is indeed perfect in any way, the only bad thing i can say about her is that she is bronya reliant since jingliu with no bronya will mess up her uptime, her dmg will be lower and she is more clunky to play without bronya.

[@Ezio15147]

@@黄ヨウジュン ah yea true

[@troy2223]

​@@黄ヨウジュンruan mei+tingyun+huohuo can also help with jingliu up time problem, don't know if the damage will be much worse tho

[@jamesmarkell3343]

Her perfect support is bronya, and bronya is a standard banner character, which could be considered easier to obtain than limited 5* like sparkle.

[@Ezio15147]

@@jamesmarkell3343 yea exactly,another benefit

[@PixelNeoGamerPlays]

I'm aiming for Acheron despite 50/50. 🙏🙏🙏 In addition to Pela, Welt and Guinafen are also Nihility synergies to her. All of them can inflict 3 debuffs each (4 debuffs if wearing Luka LC, why did I superimpose again T_T) If Robin provides ER, you now have a close to unlimited battery support team for Jingliu

[@Ares_XO]

i think i will go for Jingliu simple because i already have Jing Yuan as lightning character and i need kafka to complete my team with black swan so, for me the better option would be Jingliu

[@Saix1031]

Good choice tbh

[@miguelparra2109]

​@@JJ-mn3nd Did you see what he takes away from the toughness bar with his ulti? It's shit, literally other lightning characters remove much more than her, and against enemies that are not weak to lightning you won't remove a shit because she only removes it with her ulti and casting it depends completely on your team, which is another problem I see. , you need to nerf your team to be able to use her: -Two nihility characters that currently improve damage less than harmony characters (with e2 this problem is only partially solved since you still want to use a nihility that is worse than a harmony) -nihility characters MUST have a high hit rate, forcing you to play them with specific cones so that they can apply debuffs to each action they have, instead of playing them with hybrid or more offensive builds that improve the team's damage -1 abundance or preservation character who can inflict debuffs gallager, gepard, seven of march (who are worse than other defensive characters) or aventurine ($$$ unless you have enough jades), and all using that cone which makes survivability worse of your tank by only giving you defense Aside from her beautiful ulti animation, I literally see no reason to pull for her, every new patch she will be much worse since you will get more dps from other elements and she will become obsolete

[@Hreimdal]

@@JJ-mn3ndon her ULT only, it's not gonna be universally that she just ignores element. So if you use her ult and you do not break the weakness gauge then its not even gonna matter to begin with whatever she has it or not. Only matters if you actually break the gauge every time she uses the ult.

[@axandraalex5869]

@@Hreimdal Yeah, i mean you can just test xueyi (her ult also damage any toughness) and see how unreliable/slow toughness dmg per ult is for a solo breaker.

[@Hreimdal]

@@axandraalex5869Indeed. It's a nice bonus, but its not something i would base my team compositions around.

[@katarzvna]

I already have Jingliu and want acheron (im at 75 pity but no guarantee) but i think ill skip her because i dont think my bad phone can survive acherons ult LOL (especially not after hearing devs talk about her ult crashes before optimization) so im probably gonna go for topaz

[@rafael_lana]

You can test that during the free trial.

[@marknavarro7497]

​@@rafael_lanawhat he said is acheron dogshit ina nice way which i also agree.

[@Shabso101]

Link it to the ps5😂

[@panpan9140]

Jing Liu is so easy to build and having her team comp at peak already. Acheron on the other hand needs a lot of investment while her team comp isnt the best yet. ( f2p LC for now vs Sig LC has a big gap) New players - JL JL skippers/5050 losers - Get her on her rerun.

[@D_enDAionNoEien]

💯

[@xinel07YT]

W comment

[@ramsesthethird4274]

Would it be good to save for Jingliu instead of going for Luocha? I am getting Acheron for sure, but I was wondering how significant a healer is for her (I have a built Lynx and Natasha as Sustains), I do have E1S1 Bronya so I figured JL would be a big upgrade to my account.

[@D_enDAionNoEien]

@@ramsesthethird4274 ig you should secure at least 2 limited sustain that's at the top tier. Most likely either fuxuan, huohuo,luocha and adventurine. With luocha being the og limited sustain,pro-super high auto healing,auto cleanse on auto heal,sp positive and bladie best partner ....con- can't help you out heal damage way above 50% HP/one shot,2 shot dmg He only heal nothing else I heard adventurine is great defensive shielded with tonne of advantages outside shield(offensive aspect), I think you should try out adventurine 1st...if you didn't want husbando ig fuxuan and huohuo anyway

[@widel0r55]

@@ramsesthethird4274 Luocha is great as healer, but now, Hoyo tends to make floors harder, more difficult. There are a lot of tanky enemies, so Luocha compared to HuoHuo, Fuxuan, Aventurine is not looking great, as the others offer good value for your dps, but Luocha isn't. So i wouldn't recommend you to pull for Luocha in terms of usefulness (utility). It is better to get some of those three, whom i've named above, they will just be better in almost all cases of hard content (high floors of abyss and so on).

[@games-dan]

Of course I want both of them, and Luocha and Aventurine, too, for that matter. But I can only get one unless I’m absurdly lucky. And what I really need most right now is a no-nonsense easy-to-use DPS carry for a second team (or when my Kafka/BS team isn’t a good fit), and Jingliu seems like a better fit for me right now. She’s also one of my favorite characters anyway, so it’s not like I’m sacrificing preference for meta or anything like that. If there’s a lightning weak enemy, I’m using Kafka/BS/RM, and I suspect Acheron’s rainbow break isn’t going to be as useful in practice as it seems. I would love to have her trash mob insta-kill technique though, that convenience would be worth pulling her alone for me. Oh well, maybe on her rerun.

[@Nerick77]

I'm in the same boat with kafka/bs/Ruan mei but still need a stronger 2nd team and/or better weakness coverage. E6 Xueyi rainbow break ultimate is fun but hasn't been as strong as I'd hoped at a lower investment. This makes me think Acheron's rainbow break won't be as useful as it sounds unless she's strong enough to mostly bruteforce non-lightning at low investment.

[@games-dan]

@@Nerick77Same here with Xueyi, although not E6 I use her, too, and have had the same experience with her ult. It’s nice to have to gain karma stacks on other enemies after all the quantum-weak enemies are broken, but she still really needs to face quantum-weak enemies.

[@krdt1111]

I’m the same way. I think I’ll skip Acheron and get jingliu then Sam later for type coverage. No use having the same character element over and over

[@GrizzlyLord]

I'll just pull max 10-30 on Acheron's banner in hope of getting my last copy to E6 Pela. If I get her, yeey. If not, I actually already have Kafka to cover for lightning element.

[@GrizzlyLord]

@Krugmatik I have maxed all her stats first, gave her a decent set, not too crazy. 135 speed 4k atk. I have her on fermata. But, truth to be told, her teammates are e1s1 BS, E0S1 RM and E0 HuoHuo with 4* event LC. This team is cruising through MoC and PF

[@jammed_yam]

@Krugmatikget black swan LOL

[@topand.s7220]

​@KrugmatikNo need to to stress on Black Swan too much, As long you got Ruan Mei, Kafka can be paired up with either Luka or Sampo just fine, plus Sustain. It works just fine, since at the end of the day, you just need to grind that good set of artifact (not one or two good sub stat, but at least 3 or full good stats).

[@GGiGotHydra]

Acheron hands down. Mintpickers will love her (me). She gives you the option to NEVER farm credits and XP books again.

[@GGiGotHydra]

instead of wiping map for 3 hours or more il be doing it in like less than 1 hour. Time saver AND GRINGER SIGN ME UP (i was skipping her)

[@slippy47]

​​​@@vindo17 insta killing overworld mobs and as the devs have said the rewards will be there so that means both material and xp will be given to your team, basically making you farm XP passively.

[@GGiGotHydra]

@@vindo17 Her tech in map is an instant kill and devs said you get all the rewards. I just need someone to confirm me if she gives you the XP. if she does i pick her easily.

[@aryosheva8204]

you guys kill overworld mobs?

[@swifty3290]

Her technique could also work for SIM universe which is already insane imo 😂😂 farming planar ornaments in the current state of hsr is pain 😢 wonder how they gonna optimize this issue in 2.3 😊.

[@Anilomu]

Great video as always EOD. It's really tough for me to justify Acheron since I already have a Kafka/Black Swan team, and they do pretty solid dps together. I think even with Colorless break the fact that Acheron is not only Nihility, but also lightning after a Kafka run was a huge mistake on Hoyo's part. I feel like Jingliu covers that ice Weakness break need I would require, and the lower investment on Jingliu is already a huge plus. Acheron just requires too much money, with her s1 and s2 plus her lightcone and for Kafka/Black Swan player it just lessens her value overall. I will pull for Acheron on the off chance that I get Jingliu early. But otherwise, it will be a hard pass.

[@Friday-p13]

I think they're not going side by side with banners. First will be Acheron with Luocha. Second will be Aventurine with Jingliu. You might go for the Acheron rerun if you go out with your plan in pulling.

[@Anilomu]

@@Friday-p13 Oh if that's the case that would make it much more managable!

[@muralikarthik4361]

You can get JL now and if u really want Acheron u can save up for her rerun. I am in your exact shoes as i have Kafka/BS with E0S1 ruan mei and that team is my fav in the game and being f2p JL is just the safer choice for me. Also i have e6 pela (easily the best 4 star after tingyun, personally at least) with ice res shred so JL over Acheron for now.

[@Anilomu]

@@muralikarthik4361 Exactly, I was already planning on building Pela for Dr.Ratio because of how versatile she is. With Jingliu benefiting from Pela, it just seems like a great idea.

[@m.ilhamseptiadi.s]

Better invesment is build your support and sustain, whatever ur demage dealer will amazing

[@LaidbackPotato]

I guess it'll depend on how the future content enemies, jingliu excels from 1.4 to 1.6 because like 70-80% of the mobs and bosses are weak to ice. For 2.1 onwards I place my bet on acheron, as 2.0 enemies are mostly weak to lighning, and I thought that'll be the trend until at least 2.3 or 2.4

[@brianmoore5366]

There both very strong characters that will benefit any account. The value they can provide to u really depends on your own investment into your account. Jing Liu as a smaller dmg gap due to the fact that she provides herself with a large crit rate buff and a large atk buff. She's a solo character that u can slot anyone alongside her and see value. Any buffer, debuffer or another dps that can take the buffs as jing liu only wants to see energy regen, turn advancement, or additive dmg increase. Atk buffs and crit buffs just provide demenishing returns since her values are already so high. She is one of the most versatile dps currently in the game. The only teams she can't go in are ones based on gimmicks like follow up-atk teams and dot teams as she does nothing for those gimmicks. ( Kafka is the most versatile dps in the game as she can slot into any roll and perform). However, she has no room to grow currently as the pool of units that can increase her dmg value is low and many of the harmony units see majority of there kit being useless to her because of her high base values. Acheron has probably one of the largest dmg gaps out of the dps characters. The value u could see out of her highly depends on what u have on your account. Literally the difference between her doing 20k skill on 3 enemies and 250k ult and 80k skill and a 650k ult. I would not use her in dot team's. Only 2 units provide utility to Acheron. Guin and BS but both require another unit to proc to see there max potential. They will both provide low utility on there own and if u run a unit like Kafka who can get them there max potential. Kafka isn't providing anything other than ult charge. Instead of losing out on a buffer or a sustainer just to slot Acheron it would over all just be better to not. Neither is seeing value. It would be better to slot Acheron into a comp that provides her more along with ult charge. While u can run Guin and BS together u would get more value out of pela who is her best support than running Guin and BS together. And u can run Harmony units like Sparkle and Bronya who can give acheron more turns so she doesn't lose out on a debuffer but they don't make up for the dmg lost from not running 2 Nihillty units. Ruan Mei can make up the difference but can only provide 1 debuff every 3 turns. All of Acheron's potential is locked to her ult. It where all her dmg is and her omni break. So the longer she takes the more dps value she loses. And while the market lightcone exists its gimmicky as it needs that unit to be hit in order for the debuff to trigger. The only 2 preservation units that provide agro are march and the trailblazer while good defensive options do very little on there own especially against big boss aoe's. Which is what makes a unit like Adventurine more desirable. Acheron's best team to hit her dmg ceiling is Silver wolf Pela and Aventurine. I think this needs to be mentioned when talking about Acheron's "versatility." While technically u can play her in these comps her dmg value will be all other the place as she is not a solo unit. She heavily depends on her team mates to increase her dmg value. Depending on who u have to support Acheron, jing liu is very likely to match or even outperform with what ever units u can provide her. Acheron buffs her dmg which gives her a huge dmg ceiling but makes her dependent on others to reach her max. While Jing Liu buffs her base value which gives her a smaller dmg ceiling but makes her self-dependent. I don't think this doesn't give Jing Liu any future value. We will continue to see many different types of buffers and debuffers and with her ability to pair with any character she may find a character down the line that raises her dmg ceiling. We also must consider future dps character synergies as she will synergies with any dps that plays around hp. We can assume the same for Acheron as she seems to be an important character to the development team she is just more constricted to who she can choose because of how her kit works. Jing Liu is the queen bee for ftp and low spenders. She just requires a lot less to get her potential. Further down the line u may see more value in Acheron but it highly depends on who u acquire for your account. Acheron's best ability is her omni break. It has early game potential but it has to compete with Jing Liu's high dmg out the gate thanks to her ability to crit right from the start. Could go either way. Late game weakness break doesn't play into the game to much as most built units can brute force without worrying about the weakness bar and that is double so for units like Jing Liu and IL. Where it does give Acheron an advantage is penacony enemies as many have mechanics that play around their weaknesss bar. Acheron is the newer unit so she is more likely to see content built around her, but overall i think Jing Liu has the better value. Jing liu requires low investment to see returns and she has a highly likely ability to be used along side any future unit u decide to get. This can change if u decide to hyperinvest into Acheron's team and pick up characters that specifically benefit her. Then you'll start to see more value in Acheron. A last thing to consider though is any unit u pick up to boost Acheron will most likely pair with Jing Liu as well since she has no restrictions as a solo unit.

[@donew1thita11]

800k on e0 . Doubt it

[@brianmoore5366]

@@donew1thita11 when did I mention 800k

[@Yuanshaohd7e7]

Do you think Jingliu will get a dedicated relics set and limited 5 star support character in the future? I've seen Danheng got Sparkle recently and perhaps she'll get one soon

[@brianmoore5366]

​@xuzhuanlee4473 I'd say the possibility does exist. The more unique harmony units they release the more of a chance we may see a unit that provides a massive dmg increase to her. I think we could see a relic set that increases dmg based on hp drain. Though if it has self drain then it would not work since drains the parties hp not her own. Jing Liu would do great with anything that increases her dmg after calculation due to the fact she has high base stats. And anything thing that can help her maintain her stance like action forward and energy will provide good increases. They release a character that provides action forward energy and a dmg boost or penetration that would be Jing Liu's best friend.

[@Emare100489]

EODGamer is my irl best in slot when it comes to all matters about HSR!!!! 🥳💖🦄

[@rafael_lana]

Going for Jing Liu's LC even before watching the video. I was planning on trying for Acheron too, but I dont have much Nihility units, or the pulls for e2 and lc. Waiting for Sam or Jade next.

[@CloudStrifeXBL]

I'm in the same boat. Might get Acheron on rerun but currently just not working for my account. Will grab Jinglius LC and then wait for Fu Xuan and Sam.

[@Mmaniac93]

People will watch all of these Acheron videos from the first week of her doing ridiculous Ultimate damage, not realizing how inconsistent she may be in practice: - She has few sources of Cirt Rate and will be missing crits often with medium level of investment or she would have to use Crit Rate body and sacrifice lots of Crit Damage. - Her damage profile is very uneven - feast and famine. Not only do you need to rely on other nihility characters to apply debuffs consistently, but most of her damage comes from her Ultimate, which she herslf needs to build up to. Lots of overkill backloaded damage. - Her stack generation is enabled and hampered by debuff application. The first MoC will give her a debuff and trick people to think that her rotation is much faster. Some enemies have self debuffs, some don't. + She may be better for overworld farming, if you can be bothered. Most players who have played since launch have an abundance of credits and character XP. In comparrison, Jingliu dishes out damage consistently. Her biggest drawback of leaving the transcendant state can be mitigated by supports like Bronya. And she get's 100 CV for free, making hitting 100% crit rate without sacrificing Crit Damage very achievable, even for players that don't spend money on refreshes every day.

[@cerotic2353]

dont forget the fact shes not f2p friendly, e1 and light cone are needed

[@JohnDoe-si4eg]

@@cerotic2353she’s not bad at ftp levels. Jingliu is still just better. There’s really no room for debate.

[@TheZackzable]

Man a lot of questionable Infos. People are just not objective on this things. Saying she needs 2 debufer to function is feast and famine while every team comp uses 2 supports or how black swan needs Kafka 😅. Her stack mechanic gives her a guaranteed 2 turn ult and even safer if your preservation can debuff with LC. That's higher consistency then others. Her DMG is also more front loaded thenback loaded because all her DMG is in the ult and it does its DMG then and not over time. On a e0 setup with pela and sw her ult does single target around 140-200k her E around 100+. That's the average single target DMG. So the real question is if she is worth the hype. She is aoe king and the more enemies the better but on average over both MOC and pf I say 3 target cleave is the average. With that in mind she is s tier but not broken defining s-tier. Tough choice if she is even a significant upgrade to the new jingyuan😅

[@xenoemblem7]

@@cerotic2353 E1 and Lightcone isn't needed, stop spreading misinformation.

[@JohnDoe-si4eg]

@@TheZackzable some of the info here is also questionable. 2 debuffers to function is relevant bc debuffers are not currently as good as harmonies. Her stack mechanic only gives her 2 turn ults with very specific comps that all players may not have access to. Her dmg is more backloaded in comparison to jingliu whose banner is right after, furthermore she’s more vulnerable to cc than average dps as they can also cc her teammates delaying her ult. She’s a good unit, but without better teammates she’s just not a meta pick full stop.

[@Oswanov]

I am one of those new players and am honestly struggling with the choice. I definitely wanna go for Aventurine as my go-to 5 star support, who luckily doesnt seem to need any big investment beyond just the character itself to be good (E1 is nice but ultimately really not needed and there are other good LC options). Acheron needs a lot, but the universal toughness break is a huge asset, since my roster of characters that I have a) available and b) are built is extremely small so she would cover a lot more ground. On the other hand, I have a harder time playing into the debuff aspect and feel like the only ones I can rely on there are Pela and I guess Gui (Who are both E0 still)? And having her Signature LC is a huge deal, too (i.e. more investment, tho I wouldnt shy from spending some disposable income, especially with the top up bonus reset) Jingliu is tried and true, but seems to have a lot of requirements to really make her shine (like the action forward from Sparkle or Bronya as well as general speed requirements, tho those seem to be pretty universal asks), but obviously offers a lot of high stats by default, which lower some requirements as well. She's overall gonna be easier to make work as a newer/lower investment player) Man why tf did I get Yanqing out of my starter banner qq Another thought is waiting for Topaz, who should be back soon-ish for a FuA team with Ratio and Aventurine

[@rafael_lana]

Honestly Jing Liu has a good Herta LC, MUCH easier to build due to her massive CR buff too. If you have Huohuo and Tingyun you don't even need the action forward to keep her in the state a turn longer. Acheron becomes a lot more tempting if you have SW and GNSW. TLDR: Jing Liu much higher floor, but lower ceiling. Would recommend her for f2p starters.

[@marknavarro7497]

I already see how acheron universal weakness on moc, i can say she cannot break the weakness in her ult it's pointless. You only want to kill the boss faster by having s1 and spam debuffs at it. Jingliu is better imo, about sustain characters i would recommend huohuo she's really 2 in 1 character abundance + harmony

[@serenevoid7423]

Future-proof? Acheron Resource-friendly? Jingliu If you have Kafka or planning to pull her and does not really like Acheron, just pull for Aventurine or any Harmony 5-star (Sparkle rn or Robin on 2.2) for future-proof content. Acheron is for those who really like her or just have no other plans on who to pull for coz she needs her LC, her E2, or E0S1 Aventurine for more comfortable rotations. Her weakness ignore is a trap since you can't really make use of it on MoC if you don't have weakness break enhancer like Ruan Mei (weakness bars of enemies in MoC are super tough too. lol).

[@marknavarro7497]

Future proof acheron? How much copium did you take? 😂 She isn't even viable end game without her sig lc, jingliu proves every patch she's still at the top😂 would get e2 rerun for jingliu ofc with her lc than acheron being nihility locked team im sure its boring as hell

[@Yuanshaohd7e7]

​@@marknavarro7497calm down, no need to mock any character. Although I'm also a bit sceptical about her usage, even though I quite like her. I prefer to stick with Jingliu for several deeper reasons. The devs always do this technique everytime they release a new character, combined with nice kit and lore-richness, not to mention community and content creators keep hyping this before the actual release, also considering the current content would benefit the new character, after all these are just marketing strategies to keep the game alive, which is reasonable.

[@marknavarro7497]

@@Yuanshaohd7e7 I'm just saying no dps is future proof 🤣 only harmony and abundance is actually future proof even tingyun and asta is still being used in end game today. I would also agree with you it's hsr marketing ofc to give good lore and hype every character on release but i would say acheron is good if you have good relics + good 5 star team with sig lc. Ofc dumb people easily got hyped and reduced their brain cells to nothingness can't even think the draw backs. 600k damage ult with worth 2 team turn is not record breaking SS+ character.

[@vrika4280]

There's something about Jing that doesn't resonate with me, kind of weird given my favorite characters on Genshin are Ice damage dealers. I'll try to get Acheron here, and if there aren't any characters I like at the moment, try to pull her light cone on the rerun.

[@spicynugget7406]

facts thats why i didnt pull JL in 1.4 she feels off to me for some reason

[@donew1thita11]

Tbh it’s the English VA

[@B_L_A_D_E_1618]

This is what I was waiting for!!! yess!!!

[@matheushenriqueveloso2251]

One thing to consider is that right after Dan Heng IL rerun they released Sparkle, an amazing harmony 5star for him, right after Jingliu we'll have Robin as a Harmony 5star, don't know anything about her kit, but it may be good for Jingliu.

[@donew1thita11]

she always has ruan Mei and bronya . But I think robin is made for like boothill

[@Yuanshaohd7e7]

I'm looking for dedicated support for Jingliu. While on it, I'll stack my jades to E6S1 her first 🤔

[@sanskarbhattarai6903]

lol thanks for this vid this is what I needed banger content as usual mr eod

[@nikhilponnam2043]

Jinglu is best as for value can run different paths unlike Acheron who only needs Nihilty at E0. Jinglu can pair with best support like Ruan mei so breaking an enemy is simple. Unlike Acheron who cant use Ruan mei at E0

[@gow_]

😂

[@Saix1031]

fax

[@Ares_XO]

why are you laughing? He simply said the truth, Jingliu can be played with alot of supports, Acheron cant unless you invest all what you have in her getting 3 copies of her@@gow_

[@danielak1666]

​@@Ares_XOwell, Jing Liu can be played with a lot of support but thanks to her huge self buff she only actually gains something when being paired with Ruan Mei, Pela, (kinda) Tingyun and she needs Bronya/Sparkle to be played smoothly. So at the end of the day her support option is not as big as many people think she is and since most of them are quite popular support it can feel even more limited than it actually is

[@Cyneric.]

throwing in with the reverse logic, wont obtaining acheron just free up your other best supports to other side of moc? besides, acheron gets better long term investment as eventually we would get a nihility that buffs

[@apleb7605]

Personally I’m probably going for Jingliu as I have Blade alongside Ruan Mei which have good synergy with her, and I don’t have any good lightcones for Acheron and don’t plan on buying her sig. After all I’m aiming for other charas too like Fu Xuan and potentially Sam.

[@cyberthunder528]

Tbh I'll try to save up for Fu Xuan after I get the light cone of jingliu for stat up because rn my jingliu is at 49 crit rate and 200 crit dmg but I want is more dmg with ignore defs and increase attack

[@RellekEarth]

This really helped me figure out that I should probably skip Jingliu for a second time. I desperately need an ice breaker, but at the same time Acheron can TECHNICALLY break ice so that's the biggest factor imo

[@axandraalex5869]

toughness break per ultimate is slow, the enemy HP bar would probably get depleted first. I mean we have xueyi that can do that too as an example, universal stuff always come with a caveat.

[@RellekEarth]

@@axandraalex5869 well, additionally I would have pela on literally any team I have Acheron so she does a sizable chunk of ice toughness.

[@junkauge]

There’s always Herta

[@RellekEarth]

@@junkauge who is absolutely terrible outside pure fiction, sure.

[@viktoryc]

Im in the same position, I need ice (I tech have yanqing but he's really not good) and acheron is looking cooler and cooler every day. Im probably going to skip her tho just because even if her ult breaks any bar, it just is easier to build JL by such a large margin AND I don't have enough pulls for Archerons light cone.

[@KaiSaeren]

I think that your points about team building with acheron are not entirely fully transparent. While yes you can run her with the likes of Kafka whom is a fantastic main dps by herself thats a suboptimal team for her. Her best team members from what we know so far will be decidedly silver wolf and pela, anyone else is simply a less optimal substitution. Secondly running acheron with Kafka just means you sacrifice your Kafka team for no reason. If you already have her built and the other dot characters you may as well just run them instead of putting Acheron into that team. Thirdly Jing Liu is also easier to built crit wise thanks to her skill set which is incredibly helpful. And is less reliant on premium characters like silver wolf. Acheron will be a good investment long term imo for sure but atm is very limited, at least id you want to run her as best as she can be. To each their own of cours and i personally pull for characters i like over meta, just wanted to point out these things i think you either missed or wasnt entirely correct on. Thanks for the video tho, very informative

[@RaidenDisNots]

such a no brainer video

[@deerajn3337]

Have been saving my guaranteed for Jingliu since Ruan Mei banner. Already pre farmed all her stuffs too. Definitely going for my favourite character in the game. Acheron has grown on me as a character too. Definitely gonna grab Acheron on her rerun.

[@kelogz007]

I appreciate the vid. I'm going to save and pull for Jingliu. Although I lov the DoT style and Acheron would fit nicely into a DoT team, the cost of a good Acheron is just too high, especially as I blew everything i had on sparkle. Hopefully I will win my 50/50 and pull for Adventurine as well.

[@bepo1702]

acheron is not a DoT character, she is a crit nihility dps that needs debuffers on her team

[@kelogz007]

isnt a Dot a type of debuff ? Sampo and blackswan are both Nihility characters. It may not be OP but she should be able to work well with a DoT team. @@bepo1702

[@bepo1702]

@@kelogz007 ive heard dot is cope and that pela/sw is better. I think black swan slots in nicely because of the defense shred, but who knows. I'll wait for official testing to say anything

[@wolfafe]

as someone whos been hard carried by jingliu and her ease of build, team flexibility and overall power i think it's pretty safe to say for new player looking for dps to carry them into late game jingliu is the no brainer pick between the two. acheron is op but requires investment of multiple eidolons or specific team composition a.k.a. not flexible unit to have. i am lucky to be veteran of this game so i can allow myself to invest into acheron as im big fan of her design, but for new players id heavily recommend jingliu.

[@lukanikolic6400]

Thx dude yuo helped me decided to pull for Jingliu i was collecting stellar jade for her since her release and had pity got silver wolf again build pity for her but then i wanted acheron and din't know what to do so thx for helping me decide

[@Cosmic_Bald-e]

So here's my thoughts: Having a character being able to have cv manipulation in their kit is the next top best dps self increase method, the game is turn based right so with built in cv manipulation you can promp for higher attack & speed while you with acheron will struggle if your crit isn't even 80% (As a Seele main, this % can still miss.)

[@melodia_rysto]

Personally I think Acheron will be a better investment for myself. Being a player whose 2/6 5-stars are Nihility (E1 SW and E0 Welt), she'll be a huge boost to my account. Getting her also means my Ruan Mei and Huohuo will be able to be foundations of a 2nd team.

[@dikshant_gupta]

I agree , I am also in the same boat so i am also going for Acheron!!

[@baloxegaming]

I'm covering element type so Jingliu for sure. I have well built General Jing anyway and he is quite optimal for stellar farming.

[@bad3ip2k10]

@@JJ-mn3ndThat still doesn't trump weakness coverage as it only applies on ult. Weakness > Ult weakness

[@notnero09]

​@@bad3ip2k10most of her damage is ult damage anyways

[@baloxegaming]

@@JJ-mn3nd you mean her ult is just like that of xueyi? 😳 Didn't know that! But yeah I think I'll pass acheron because I'm a f2p and can't get her e2 I'll get bored with the same three nihility and a sustainer 😅

[@jamesmarkell3343]

@@JJ-mn3nd You will definitely get tired of playing one character instead of 7

[@o00o45]

Everything is lining up for my f2p Acheron team but I’m really hoping Aventurine banner lasts longer than 22 days because I need 20~ pulls worth of jades to complete a functioning team for PF and MoC

[@Jett125]

Personally i was not going to pul for acheron because i already have a well built kafka team but i didnt know she was colourless hmmmm

[@kyo-wm3wb]

Yeah Im having a hard time deciding whether or not pulling acheron will be bad for my account since I already have a kafka team Im hoping the colorless means two lightning dps wont be too inefficient 😭

[@Jett125]

@@kyo-wm3wb I think personally I'm gunna stick to my plan and get aventurine. My only built sustain is lynx and ratio is my 2nd team.

[@itsmeliska1186]

​@@kyo-wm3wb Same, I already have Kafka but no ice dps at all. So probably another lightning dps wouldn't be that smart...

[@UltimaBlank]

@@kyo-wm3wb i'm in the same boat, i have kafka/swan but really like acherons design. Unfortunately she is expensive to get (s1 is too good over my 1 copy of gnsw) plus i dont have a 5* sustain yet and no dps for my 2nd team, i'm conflicted af. Either I go for Acheron+s1 or pick up Jingliu + a premium sustain

[@Donkam_haurder]

​​@@itsmeliska1186Acheron can ignore enemies weaknesses, so it doesn't matter what element the enemy has, she still can break it

[@Andromedaa2023]

Acheron actually comes with Pela in the same banner and with the anniversary event you can take for free Guinafen, woth those 2 you have already a good team that could shred through most of the game, the only thing it lacks is a sustain character to let the team not die, but on this same patch we have Aventurine and Gallagher, other than some free character, so with a bit of luck or extreme farming someone could literally hit jackpot

[@Shenadsyy]

im gonna roll for acheron on my 2nd acc and jing liu on my first since i already have full dot team on my main (kafka, black swan, ruan mei, huohuo and also guinafen, sampo)

[@Kyogg12]

Just the video I was looking for

[@Sp3ctra_]

I WAS WAITING THIS

[@Deimos537]

Thanks,i needed this

[@shottydd]

The thing is i want JL or aventurine more, but Acheron comes with Pela and Gallagher, while Gallagher is basically a 4 star Luocha. (Need a sustain) And those 3 can form a team, then you need one more unit preferably nihility unless you go for acheron e2s1. But that’s a lot of pulls and won’t have enough for JL or aventurine (they come with lynx and serval want to also get then to E6 then there is also patch 2,2 and 2,3.. tough decisions..

[@OfficialShamGawd]

Also, the fact Acheron's dmg increases with Nihility units in the party (unless you get E2 i believe), that means just like Kafka for DOT, Acheron will only become more valuable as more Nihility units come out so her power ceiling is currently unmeasurably high. I'll admit Jingliu definitely more valuable in terms of being the only great Ice DPS (nobody is counting Yanqing in that debate lol), shes SP positive, and has less requirements to make her perform optimally. But Acheron's potential makes her more enticing from my perspective.

[@katkyun]

I'm a newer player who started in 1.5 so I'll be going for Acheron but I'm also not F2P. I just do not like hypercarry style of teambuilding or the double or triple harmony teams - whats the point in having other other paths if harmony and destruction is all you need. Since I started playing I've desperately wanted more debuffers like Pela and SW so I'm happy if thats the direction the game is going in. Also I'd rather invest in newer characters currently than pull for old ones. I agree with you all the way. If you're F2P and have lightning covered, pull JingLiu - everyone else, Acheron.

[@jeerayut0580]

I wanted Jingliu but i just started playing HSR and my first limited five star is Sparkle. I worry Sparkle’s SP will be useless for her so i think it’d be better to go for Acheron instead.

[@TheWanderer1219]

it's actually the opposite , Sparkle works very well with Jingliu (Jingliu will get all of her buffs even if she doesn't use many sp) , i'd say Sparkle is better for Jingliu than she's for Acheron because Acheron wants nihility unites more like sw/pela

[@jeerayut0580]

@@TheWanderer1219 that would mean putting Sparkle’s main SP mechanic to waste tho. With Acheron, all of her buffs+SP abundance+turn advancement would much likely benefit her tho.

[@jeerayut0580]

@@TheWanderer1219 However, as a new player who just started playing for over a week, now I’m doing the ‘Clouds Leave No Trace’ Mission and that gives a try of using JingLiu with my Sparkle -and they seem work pretty well! And to my surprise, it’s kinda like Sparkle’s SP works for her! Jingliu kinda BADASS in terms of damage! ❄️❄️❄️

[@TheWanderer1219]

@@jeerayut0580 yes that's what I'm saying , jingliu still works amazing with sparkle even tho she doesn't consume too much sp , the other supports in the team can always use the extra sp to get their ultimates faster , and besides her crazy damage , Jingliu is the easiest dps to build and get value from , that's why i recommend her for new players over acheron who really needs high quality relics and she's restricted team building wise, and she is kinda mid without her lightcone , while jingliu has an amazing f2p weapon : on the fall of an aeon

[@Shabso101]

Jingliu’s best support is Bronya, because with her you can get Jingliu in single cycles a lot more often because of Bronya’s skill and AA. But Sparkle’s 7 skill points is also useful because you always need to use the skill points for Jingliu.

[@m.ridzwan-26]

I still remember when Jingliu first day banner, people tried to undervalue her by saying she only as strong as Blade

[@onlyMGB]

My man didn’t mention Yanquing in the alternatives for Jing Liu lmfaoooo that was so unintentionally funny bc Meisha is worth bringing up more than him 🤣 Love u EOD! When u start using the facecame bro ur going to take it to the next level 💙💙💙

[@SH1NK1R01]

I have jl and literally no lighting dps. It’s also a Mei incarnation and she is paired with a new 4 star that synergizes with her kit. People talk about how strong jl is but conveniently forget how popular she was and how many people pulled for her and now have her. But yeah if you are literally starting now then I agree skip Acheron and pull jl it will make your account stronger and you will build enough pulls to potentially get her light cone

[@dtsubera]

Its great that you talk about acheron teams saying that she will just not benefit from energy tunneling. But in reality she is fully restricted to nihility teammates until e2. So it will be only dot or pela/sw/fuenaifen. That’s it. No other options. No harmony.

[@rafael_lana]

Forgot Welt, good unit for her since he is kinda an abundance/preservation unit. Also Welt+Mei in the last slot eliminates the need for sustain in most content.

[@dtsubera]

@@rafael_lana it’s not “kinda both”, it’s more like “kinda nothing for a good enough level” I was able to clear moc 12 with welt+mei sustaining. But it was hard to do and was only possible because off all enemies in current moc12 have imaginary weakness. Wouldn’t recommend it to someone else. It’s not a goto solution. You can also clear with no sustain with 2-3 harmonies. But Is it a proper team?

[@rafael_lana]

@@dtsubera if it clears consistently yes it is a proper team. Mei+Welt depends on someone on the team breaking, but that's exactly what Acheron does too. It will be a good combo for her, not top damage, but somewhat accessible since a lot of people got Mei.

[@buddhacris4381]

It will take a couple reruns, but one day I will have E6 Acheron. I want her not just to be relevant now, but for a long time down the line.

[@blah23865]

Wish you all guys get the characters/LC you aiming for!😇😇😇

[@Dzyntara]

I already have E1S1 Jingliu and I have enough warps saved up F2P to get Acheron and E2 Jingliu - but I'm watching the video anyway :D

[@donew1thita11]

Get Acheron light cone

[@nikplay69]

started playing on kafka reruns banner so i got kafka BS and sparkle from the limited banner and i got bronya from the stellar ward and welt from the standard banner, i know that jingliu whould be better for me, with the current roaster but i really like acheron so i'll pull for her instead and they try my luck with either luocha or adventurine

[@bepo1702]

your sparkle doesnt seem to serve much purpose with your current units

[@nikplay69]

@@bepo1702 cause I didn't really plan on getting her,got it at 24 pity🤣 so wasted guarantee....

[@bepo1702]

@@nikplay69 oh shit. I mean you can always get someone who functions good with her in the future anyway

[@sonatrudicova6325]

interesting, nihility is my favourite path so I have nearly all characters built (except for luka) so going for acheron is perfect for me. I don't really use my jingliu much but if there's only ice weakness in moc then I do reach for her

[@silenyan172]

Me who's only pulling for husbandos starting next banner: :D

[@moodiiperson7474]

I already have Kafka for lightning DPS, plus Jingliu is my favorite character because of the moon vibe with her kit. But Acheron is cool as well; but she'll always have a rerun not too long after her first banner probably.

[@AltaMillia]

If I were a spender I would definitely pull Acheron and her LC. Unfortunately I need four more copies of Pela, SW, SW’s LC, four more copies of Pearls to use with Pela, and 100x more fuel than I currently have for her to be usable. Well, not really. But Acheron sure has the most caveats of any character so far, my account is basically anti-Acheron.

[@ravwoofles3858]

I have a lot Nihility characters, including E6 sampo, E2 Pela, E4 Gui, Black swan, and with the trend of the universal market light cone I can make a preservation character into a semi nihility, but no Kafka. The game seems to really want me to go in a certain direction.

[@alfredbarretto]

Will get acheron later on reruns plus her LC, For now Will go with JL since I really wanter her back then but couldnt play and busy on my work that time.

[@pforgottonsoul]

these upcoming banners are gonna break me. Acheron, Luocha, and jingliu all units i want and need.

[@AnotherAyushRaj]

Only 5star limited DPS I have is Dr. Ratio 💀

[@kleankant202]

i'd say that the triple quantum support core of sparkle+SW+FX/lynx is also a "colorless" team that can enable most crit scaling hypercarries. it's a complete support core that has almost all the kinds of buffs, debuffs and sustain you'll need for most content. it also makes it easy to farm for your hypercarry because you only need 1 genius set that you can pass around to the hypercarry of your choice. if you decide to invest into that core's eidolons, especially sparkle's E2S1, they can enable even the weaker 4-star hypercarries to make quick work of MOC. that team with E2S1 sparkle gives any hypercarry 110%+ CDMG, 22 crit rate, 84-97%% def shred, 13-33% res penetration, 70% atk, 48% dmg, and 1 instance CC immunity. this doesn't even account for the fact that you don't need speed boots on your hypercarry anymore since sparkle provides you with her speed. it's not a cheap core to build, but i'd say that it's efficient in the long run since it's also "colorless" and it's compatible with a lot of hypercarries.

[@chupunggatv6416]

I agreed with you .. I need Fu Xuan now .. I guess her rerun will be 2.2 version .. I have E0S1 Sparkle .. do you think it's better to get Sparkle Eid for now and skip 2.1 to save my jades for 2.2 and get Fu Xuan later on ? I still have 125 pulls saved

[@UltimaBlank]

@@chupunggatv6416 I think you would be more than fine with e0s1 sparkle. If you really wanted to invest in her, e2 would be good but absolutely not needed, especially if you dont have the pulls to guarantee it, better off getting more units imo

[@chupunggatv6416]

@@UltimaBlank yeah .. but I guess sacrificing 80x pulls is okay ? Since it's too far from 2.2 .. And I guess I can guarantee Fu Xuan when she comes on 2.2 .. we will have 116 total pulls in 2.1 so if I sacrifice my 80 pulls and I still have 125 I can still save about 45 pulls then plus 116 on 2.1 I have already 161 pulls and it's guarantee .. what do you think ?

[@luizguilhermemason740]

​@@chupunggatv6416 Since I'm in the same boat as you, I'll share you my vision about future proofing my account: Since Sparkle herself and her LC gives a lot of CD, you don't need Fu Xuan's Eidolons. So I recommend saving for Fu Xuan's Lightcone, which lets you drop off ER Rope, and then going for Sparkle E2 in her rerun

[@chupunggatv6416]

@@luizguilhermemason740 really ? If you have Fu Xuan signature LC you don't need to put her ER rope ?

[@tobizerker4153]

I wouldn't say acheron is a lower investment than Jingliu. Jimgliu has more efficient supports since she likes buffers and debuffers and her kit is mostly self efficient. She can use the same supports as the rest of the crit dps at e0s0 and play just fine. Acheron is nicher because she requires debuffers for her kit to function optimally. Then she's also a crit dps with the nihility path, so unless you pull for her signature, SW signature or Welt's signature then you'll have to deal with getting decent crit values.

[@donew1thita11]

I have welts lc but that doesn’t give any crit

[@donew1thita11]

It does give decent damage though

[@tobizerker4153]

@@donew1thita11 it doesn't give Crit but it does give Atk% which she wants with all oh the dmg buffs she gets

[@_noturcheez_2898]

Having Acheron frees up your harmony. You have Pela from her banner and other nihility 4 stars from unit selector. You have dr ratio for free and you will have the harmony units for him. I do think for a new player, Acheron is a better pick for having easier team building in moc.

[@georgekontopoulos3473]

Play whatever you like! If a character looks cool and u want to have it aim for them. It’s a game so u can enjoy it that way too :)

[@michaelchelidonopoulos5868]

im a new player and i managed to get lunae and sparkle already. so naturally i have inested in lunae team. I guess Acheron could be an amazing asset and a dps to build my second team around... If i win the 50-50 xD

[@dltalian6736]

Jingliu is easier to build and still has better dmg ceiling right now. Literally the best 'plug&play' unit. Acheron only works with the right nihility units and even then her dmg is comparable to Jing Yuan.

[@Dosko_chinpo]

Do you think sparkle is needed for Acheron for her to hit those 200-300k damage numbers I’ve been seeing? I skipped sparkle since my main team is dot and I’m trying to branch into hyper carry teams

[@theusualneighbor4678]

Sparkle don't work with her unless e2

[@Dosko_chinpo]

@@theusualneighbor4678so e0s1 is fine with pela and a dot? I’ll get another copy on her re run since I’ll be saving the rest of my jades till 2.2 to hopefully get Fu xuan

[@sriracha3458]

​@@theusualneighbor4678technically u still can, u just will lose out some bonus dmg from acheron's trace

[@Dosko_chinpo]

@Yasper-2TS thanks hoping to get e0s1 but no silver wolf sadly so will have to use another dot unit like gui

[@ninthfriend3347]

Good thing Jingliu was my first 5* dps I got as well as getting her sig. If I have to choose for newer players or ftp, Jingliu is a better value than Acheron. She's very easy to build, has Herta 5* as her best ftp option, and has access to the best harmony units at e0. And she's still aging well to this day.

[@Friday-p13]

As a Jingliu haver, I find this pull easy. Thank God. If I get lucky, I can still go for Jingliu lightcone too. Good thing I haven't maxed out my Ratio's traces, chances are he's gonna collect molds once Acheron arrives.

[@momomomomogi]

idk i might be coping but this feels like the time when kafka team choice without black swan. acheron introduces new mechanics that kinda hard to support with the current nihility characters. i hope we got acheron support that can inflict debuffs constantly lol

[@tellm3why]

Will be pulling for Acheron but I'm on the fence about pulling Sparkle to use with Acheron for stable rotation with skill points and vs. just using Bronya.

[@rafael_lana]

E2 acheron I presume? Otherwise no room for Sparkle and sustain

[@bepo1702]

if you aren't pulling e2, you can forget the harmony units 😂

[@tellm3why]

let's just assume e2

[@Samosnighht]

@@tellm3why any of the 5* harmonies will be great with e2 acheron, Bronya is already amazing with e2 with advance you're pretty much getting double stacks but having another 5* harmony is always good, so you can use one on each side do remember that robin is coming too for another option

[@MapleYum]

Jing Liu is fantastic. Archeron looks stellar. I’m pulling for Archeron and her LC. I wanted Jing Liu’s LC but the rerun time makes that hard.

[@MrGomlo]

I think if you need a DPS and do not have a build Pela/SW or Welt or DOT characters, you probably better off to go with Jingliu. She just simply slots into almost any current high damage team just fine. All supports work with her, all sustains work with her, she will never be bad because she has so many free stats, making her easy to build and easy to refine. Acheron on the other hand is supper heavy investment, needs great stats all around and needs build specific units. I do think Acheron is stronger then Jingliu, but only at super high investment.

[@MrGomlo]

*As an Edit. Also Acheron is trash on almost all Nihility Lightcones. Jingliu almost works with any destruction lightcone.

[@rafael_lana]

Jing Liu has access to the best LC in Herta Shop, while Acheron needs a 4* gatcha of the current options. And the CR boost is massive as you said.

[@vargaerik9314]

Looking at the fact that Acheron isnt f2p friendly, she has a restriction to team comps, tons of alternatives, Jing Liu is far better investment. Higher dmg output, she can attack far more times than Acheron, none the less her ultimate loads faster than Acheron's.

[@mizushirokanon9174]

About Acheron gear, I think, they will release some in the future. Like with Jing yuan, they released his perfect support and gear year after his release

[@donew1thita11]

Isn’t the newest set literally designed for her

[@bepo1702]

they already did that, just farm the debuff set

[@milliliters930]

Question: I have E0S0 JL and E0S0 Kafka/E0S1 JY (no Topaz). I also am interested in getting Sam later, but I have an E4 Lynx and an E0S0 FX. Should I go for Acheron, or go for Luocha?

[@kyo-wm3wb]

Im pretty sure Luocha isnt as valuable as he was before, and I think lynx is pretty decent If you're not pulling for acheron you might want to wait for another sustain like aventurine or reruns like huohuo

[@kyo-wm3wb]

If you're having troubles with lynx sustain though Luocha is a comfy option

[@MagicalNigachu]

Not acheron for sure, unless you really like her, do you really want 3 lightning dps in your roster

[@mroyyanalfatah3560]

you dont need acheron bcs already hv kafka and jy. If your acc dont have all element coverage better pull a dps for that element, except ur rich and want to pull whatever char you like

[@UltimaBlank]

Lynx is fine for now, perhaps consider getting HuoHuo for kafka/dot team. Not worth getting Luocha or Acheron now as you have 2 lightning DPS, especially if you want Sam later on. You could also get Sparkle for JY/JL/Sam if you dont have her already

[@kagebunshin1731]

You’re so underated

[@voidbg7017]

from what ive seen with a specific future character acheron's damage will most likely double but im sure that character will come after sam

[@LongDeadArtist]

Although I need destruction, Acheron will carry my nihility team as a "destruction" character who covers Lightning (I have NOTHING) and can be my 2nd DPS since mine are single target, and since I want Sam/FF dearest, I will have path coverage in destruction :)

[@vulcron4319]

I think Acheron is better in my view for a f2p/beginner player, Jing Liu is easier to build due to her only needing %30 CR on her pieces but has one major problem drains your whole teams hp to do high damage in her burst state. Natasha can't keep up with it the f2p beginner healer by the way, Lynx is alright for her from what I have found and gallghar is probably going to be alright but not great for her. So if you pull Jing Liu you are going to be looking at getting Huo Huo or Luocha which is another 5 star you have to pull for. Though Jingliu is really good for the SU mini games trotters and break the barrels with her freeze technique. Acheron doesn't drain your parties hp, can hit every enemy instead of 3, is going to be the future meta dps once she gets her synergistic team mate, while 2 Nihility is best with Acheron it's not required (It's like saying Sparkle needs those Quantam team mates to be useful) but she does come with Pela on her banner so it's a plus and the only time two will be required is MoC/Gold and Gears (With high parameters), there is/was a video of her doing 300k damage with only a 3 star light cone at E0 and two nihility team mates being Welt and Pela. Her insta kill is going to be really fun and a time saver, look at Ryuji from P5R he has a skill that allows you to kill any weak enemies in mementos which saves you hours if you want something comparable on how much of a time saver that technique will be. In the end though both are pretty broken dps and each have their own use. :3 Pull for both if you like them both or chose your favorite as in the end it's a game so having fun is the most important bit.

[@kaseyatakahashi9753]

Potential wise Archeron is a must. It would be shameless but I feel like they would release a debuffer who has Aoe def shred, healing and ult dmg vulnerability. Just imagine a team for Archeron where the other two are debuffing the enemies consistently in and out of turn and a support who can advance the whole team's action.

[@donew1thita11]

They will probably do that

[@donew1thita11]

If they do that within the next 5 months then Acheron would be a great re run pull

[@miserydao]

It is depends on your playstyle or personal preferences. Both of them still good characters. Idk why many cc put community to hate each other. Like this better than the other one. Regardless it is still a gacha game. You may failed to get what you like or not follow initial plan. Nihility vs Destruction Up to you. Regardless whatever sales rept trying to say, I will skip Acheron. I already decide to gacha on Luocha rerun banner. If failed, I will gacha on jingliu or aventurine. Let's see what people said. It seems the hype and over praise for a character can be reduce significantly after reach 2-3 weeks. So let's borrow someone's character and try it myself. Then try gacha later. Don't get me wrong. This video is good. But the comment section contains of people who keep comparing and drag others down. That is unhealthy. At the end, it is just a game.

[@tiagoramalhais5493]

I have 200 pulls and ill go for Jingliu, as a F2P its just much more efficient, Acheron requires very specific LC and relics.

[@marknavarro7497]

With very specific team with gacha lc too

[@kalbre3963]

i have trend lc but no gnsw so might try plling for that in the lc banner Also i dont have the basic supports for jl so i might skip her will try to get both of them but acheron is the way for me edit : i already have siwol build and will try to build pela plus she will helo with exploring