Acolyte Composer Speaks Out

Michael Abels will be the composer for the new Star Wars series, The Acolyte. Here's why that reinforces what we thought this show would be.
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[@mrp1326]

Abels did a great job and his music is well balanced, founded on Williams' works, but also with a lot of freshness. Your work is also very good. This show deserves to be analysed in many aspects. The whole online situation is The Phantom Manace all over again.

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

It really is. I hate that we lost George to it the first time. Great writers and directors are going to want to deal with this in the future. They do it to themselves and then complain about it. I know the show has flaws. But it isn’t THAT bad.

[@RedCaio]

By far the worst sin the show commits is the pacing/length of episodes. should've been a movie or perhaps a miniseries of 4 episodes each 45-60 min long. these cliffhangers are frustrating, not in a good way. the other issues are minor by comparison.

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

I don’t mind the cliffhangers personally. This show was obviously built around the goal to get fans speculating each week. But I do wish they would have spent more time with each episode in order to create more character development and build relationships between characters, making their decisions feel more consequential.

[@thunderfreeze1544]

The flashback episodes are poorly acted and written that I don’t know how someone can watch those without cringing. The present day storyline is missed potential focusing on characters you can’t get invested in rather than the sith of the time which would make for a much more interesting plot. I think Qimir and Sol are great and well-acted characters but the rest of the characters drag the story down

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

Qimir and Sol are definitely above everyone else and the flashback scenes are poorly directed. One more take wouldn’t have killed them. But I don’t think it’s enough to ruin the show the way that many have said. The cringe moments were the power of many songs but I cringed and then moved on. Haha I think Aniseya was decently acted. The girls were annoying but most child actors are. Haha. I’m ok with this show not giving us Sith we know. I don’t think they would have fit here and I think they would have ruined them. This just wasn’t the show for those Sith. Qimir is a great fit. Can’t wait to see how he plays into the role with other Sith.

[@Crystalgate]

Let's try. 1) Not capitalizing on the murder mystery. The idea of a murder mystery where the victims are Jedi is intriguing when taken in isolation. Who would want to do that and who is even capable of doing so? Hunting a person who can murder Jedi would also obviously be extremely dangerous. The show for some reason decided to go with something far less interesting. 2) Character decisions being way too much in the now. Characters do whatever would be the most convenient for the writer to do right now, often not taking the past and plans for the future into account. Characters will often say things and make decisions that clashes with past and future scenes, usually seemingly in the name of getting the plot moving in the direction the author wants it to. 3) Unappealing mystery boxes. JJ Abrams employed appealing looking, but ultimately empty, mystery boxes in The Force Awakens. Using mystery boxes in Star Wars is not a great idea nowadays as people expect them not to deliver, but this show takes it a step further by making the boxes look unappealing even unopened. Why does Mae want to kill the Jedi? Nobody cares as character motivations tend to flip flop anyway. 4) Reckless use of the setting's magic system. A magic system can do whatever the writer wants it to do, but it's important to not make it feel like magic (the force in this case of course) does whatever the writers wants it to do. When you design a magic system, putting constraints on yourself when it comes to what magic can and cannot do is very important. If you don't, you both remove the mystique aspect of it and the ability to use your magic system as a satisfying problem solving tool.

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

1.) The murder mystery was just a branching off point. They were done with that by the end of episode 2 as bigger mysteries were unfolding. If you stay trying to evaluate it as such, the yeah, you’ll be disappointed because it isn’t that. 2.) I agree that character were sometimes too easy. I think the show needed to give more time to the struggles of changing one’s mind. The quick switches like Mae in episode 4 were off putting. 3.) Mae’s motivation for wanting to kill the Jedi is pretty clear. Anyone could have guessed it by the end of episode 3. I don’t think that was a big mystery. There have been some fascinating mysteries throughout though like the vergence on Brendok. 4.) What did the force do in the show that unsettled you? I didn’t personally catch anything that seemed far fetched when compared to last shows and movies.

[@Crystalgate]

@@starwarsmusicanalysis 1) Yes, they were done with it quickly, in fact it was obvious that the murder mystery wouldn't be the focus already on the trailer. That is the problem though, they used an interesting sounding concept as a branching of point for something far less interesting. Also what are the bigger mysteries? 3) I don't think many people though the vergence on Brendok was fascinating. I can't say for sure how others feel, but I suspect that most viewers just wrote it off as a device used to bring the Jedi into the planet so that plot can happen. You may be right about Mae's motives, but frankly, it's hard to even tell what is and isn't supposed to be a mystery in this show. 4) Force mind wipe (which apparently didn't exist back when Mae decided to abandon her mission since Smilo Ren decided he had too kill her), force smoke demon and force choke when combined with the amount of training Osha had.

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

Bigger mysteries -What happened on Brendok? (Answered later in the season) -What is the Vergence on Brendok? (Maybe I’m the only curious one) -What is up with Osha and Mae being the same person in the force? -What happened between Qimir and Vernestra -What is Plagieus’s role going to be within all of this? I see the Vergence as an interesting way to tie this story into Plagieus and more. The idea of creating life through manipulating midichlorians was what he was all about. But you could also be right. What I read from Headland was that the mysteries are designed to be in the open. Meaning all of the clues are there. It’s more about the characters not having all the information needed individually. Osha had gone through significant training for what I understand and force choke is something anyone could just do if they are full tapped into their rage. That’s what makes the dark side powerful in the way that it is. You don’t need all the training to control anything. You’re just funneling your rage. Someone once describe the dark side, anger, hate, as a shortcut. The smoke vanishing is nearly identical to what the witches of Dathomir could do except now it’s black smoke instead of green. That’s nothing new unless we’re focused on specific physical properties of it. The force mind wipe felt a little too convenient, yes. But we’ve seen the force be used to retrieve memories before and to read minds. Being able to wipe one’s mind then is not much of a stretch.

[@Crystalgate]

@@starwarsmusicanalysis The problem with the questions you've asked is that they are only as much worth as the story sells those mysteries. I'll take Osha and Mae being the same person as an example. There are some obvious things an author should think about if you go with that ides. How did that happen? Since the "twins" are supposedly strong in the force, does being split into two make you stronger in the force or is it maybe so that being strong in the force somehow helped causing the split to happen? What are the advantages, and maybe more importantly, the disadvantages of being split into two? Ideally, the answers to those question should both feel intuitive when you hear them and tie heavily into what's going on. There is no sign that Disney will provide a satisfactory answer. For example, we had Mae threatening to kill Osha and then start a fire. Since Quimir told Osha that the Jedi had messed with her mind, people started to wonder if she's misremembering things. Turns out that nope, both did happen, but somehow the fact that the Jedi invaded the witches is an explanation. Why would anyone think that the split person mystery will end up any better? Even ignoring that, Acolyte hasn't really tried to sell the mystery, it has really just tossed it into the story. Nothing in the story hints that the fact that they are the same person makes a considerable difference compared to them just being twins. When has the force choke been used by people with poor training before? I don't see Osha using the force much otherwise. When it comes to the mind wipe, the problem with the mind wipe is that once it's established that you can do so, you need to answer all future "why not just mind wipe" questions that comes up. You can not just forget that force power exist. There is also the problem that regardless of whether or not it makes sense, there is an issue with introducing it as a solution to a problem. It's more or less Sanderson's First Law coming into play. You may be right about the force smoke demon.

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

@Crystalgate You may be totally right about Mae and Osha. We never did (or haven’t yet) received clear answers on any of this. My logic would be that creators do know, but want to keep these things a mystery for now. It’s just as possible that they really just don’t know. But without evidence towards either belief (besides maybe someone saying yeah we know), either conclusion would merely be an assumption. I don’t know of an example where someone has forced choked without training. But that doesn’t mean it can’t be done. I also don’t know of an example where someone was taught how to do its Osha definitely received Jedi training though. That was established early on. And it’s been insinuated that she’s actually very powerful but was never allowed to tap into her full potential. But she also hasn’t trained for a while as demonstrated by her inability to access the force in the opener. But as I mentioned, the dark side acts as a short cut. And I always assumed that force chocking wasn’t anything special. You’re just using the force to choke someone the same way you would use it to pull something to you. I can’t imagine you need to be trained to know how to choke someone. With mind wipe, I see your point. Though it doesn’t fully pose a problem. And I realize that this is explaining away a problem. But we’ve had to do that since A New Hope. It’s understood that force abilities aren’t always universal. Many Jedi can’t communicate with creatures for example. Many force users can’t force heal. Many don’t have psychometry. So, perhaps this is a very unique skill to Qimir. But I grant you, it could open Pandora’s box without some forgiveness by the audience. We’ve been making up a reasoning for things that don’t make sense in Star Wars for 40+ years. There are entire books and comic books dedicated to doing this. We’ve always had to suspend our belief in reality. As kids, we were able to do this so easily. As adults, it’s a challenge for us. We’ll never be able to experience Star Wars like when we were kids again. And I think that’s what a lot of people have been hoping for.

[@tomito8896]

The showrunners and actors gave interviews that showed significant lack of knowledge and respect for star wars. I did not watch the show because I did not expect good content. The ratings and reviews show the expectation might not have been wrong. So please do not complain about the negative reactions if there is a significant lack of quality obviously.

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

I think this concept of “Star Wars knowledge” is construed on the premise that one must adhere to legends/EU while that’s not the case. They make a lot of references to legends in the show but people, in my opinion, are making false assumptions or interpretations of how this show clashes with canon. It would be near impossible to discuss with you though until you’ve had a chance to watch it for yourself. If you felt the way you did before the show, then yes, you probably wouldn’t have enjoyed it.

[@programmedgamer7101]

I've been a lifelong fan and someone who has watched every live action series since the Mandolorian so I've been able to gauge why my passion is turning into frustration. It really is the writing. These shows can be tolerable to several kinds of people because Disney does put real money into them (making them look generally solid), but I think the surface is all it's good for. Episode 5 was the most interesting episode to me because it actually introduced a dark jedi / "sith" I liked. I thought his character had amazing potential to be expanded on and fleshed out. And yet, good performances and acceptable action are undermined by the bridging of plot points. There's a great clip of a professional actor (I can't remember their name) acting out a scene from the notorious movie "The Room" and the scene doesn't look any less goofy despite him trying his best. His temptation of Osha in episode 6 could have been a great and wishfully expanded part of the show, but the setup to this point paints him as an irredeemable piece of work to Osha. Why would she buy anything Qimir says? Yord, Jeckie, the knights in the forest, Indara, Kelnacca, Torbin... So many people dead thanks to this guy and his scheming, and you aren't trying to gut him with his own saber or run off to find Sol and the jedi? Yet, Osha stays on his island, puts on his helmet, and entertains his conversation for an unclear reason. It's just so hard to believe. And if she doesn't trust him or whatever, she's had so many opportunities to combat him or leave. How do characters decide what they do next? All writers have characters that do what they want them to do, but a great writer hides the intention inside the motivation of characters and the situations they write them in. I didn't get that. Sometimes, situations would just progress. I was pulled out by the very first episode when the fight is so obviously set up to make a Jedi Master lose or be less effective than they could have been. The post-hoc justifications don't work because the audience doesn't even know who the heck Indara is besides a "jedi" at that point. For a fan who has seen tons of Star Wars content, her death felt undeserved because her inability to succeed wasn't obvious except in a meta sense. Of course, the bartender sticks around so he can be threatened. Indara is slow walking for some reason. Where is her lightsaber? She lets this assassin/thug beat up a bunch of patrons, even crushing one with a table, before she steps in with an arm grab. We get the lore excuse of Jedi 'hubris', but we've seen jedi be effective when the situation calls for it. Obi Wan sliced off two different arms two different times for threats against him or others in a crowded location. Is he some sort of jerk for handling a dangerous individual? There's a standard to be met here with handling the jedi properly, and Acolyte has not understood what that is. Jedi don't draw a saber unless to kill? Where does this come from? Obi Wan only drew his saber when he couldn't rationalize with the agitated man, and he tried to shoot Luke dead. Why did Mae get kid gloves when she held a hostage at knife point and kicked her over the second story railing? Is that not enough of a threat to get serious? It's these oversights that add up. If it's bad enough, more and more people will notice. This is where the "hate" comes from. I don't hate the show. I'm more unimpressed with the performance of Lucasfilm here. They should have caught this earlier and got a script doctor to tidy up the situations and dialogue / character interactions so everything feels more graceful. On top of that, I am sure that the short run times didn't help the writing either, forcing everything to be condensed and more unbelievable. I wish I could be satisfied with spectacle and mediocre storytelling, but Star Wars deserves a higher standard, and I'm tired of getting stuff that could have been better. ~~~~ TL;DR: I don't think this show was written well, but it's not even Headland's fault at the end of the day. This got approved for release with quality issues that could have been fixed. We see what good writing is like with Andor, stuff that pulls you in and feels legit. If Kennedy just used that as a yard stick for both allotting sufficient time and quality control in lore consistencies, narrative weight, and storytelling... I might actually love the show. Instead, I am struggling to understand why this show is so high budget. I am not even a lore addict, but if the continuity is damaged or at the very edge for being damaged, for subpar content, it does make me wonder why they went that direction. This was completely avoidable in so many ways. Do they not remember the fan dissatisfaction with Kenobi? I do get the idea that writing has been a struggle for Star Wars, but now is the time to start elevating your content. 180 million dollars could have gone to a fun and classic Star Wars romp that invests you into interesting characters in the high republic or a 12+ episode mystery series exploring the long-lasting fallout of a terrible incident. But it's just not here.

[@chetmanley2462]

Period

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

I agree that recent Star Wars has not done well at captivating the temptation of the dark side. It’s always been a difficult thing to demonstrate in Star Wars and needs proper time to develop. Osha’s temptation felt rushed but I think she entertained it because she wants more with her life and the Jedi abandoned her. Qimir is teasing her that there’s more to her story and she really wants to know what he knows. Indra does pull out her lightsaber but only once she perceives enough of a threat from Mae. I don’t think it’s something that they ignite casually. This is taught within the Jedi temple during this time period. And they were bar thugs. I think she’s watching and learning while people just get beat up. Trying to understand what the motive or the trick is. Then she’s sees Mae clearly use some sort of power to shove that table and she steps in. Jedi can’t interfere with every bar fight. By the time we see Kenobi in ANH, Jedi teachings be damned. He’s not messing around any more, especially with the safety of Luke, son of Vader, and the last hope of the galaxy. They aren’t threatening him, they’re threatening Luke. It’s a very different situation when you analyze intentions. The concept of Jedi not drawing a lightsaber unless to kill has been well established in canon novels which is all we really have to rely on for what was taught during this era. And it makes sense. It’s such a powerful weapon, they shouldn’t be using for every problem or it stops being a symbol of anything. It could quickly become abused or construed as a threat. Imagine if a cop pulled their gun for every minor violation. And I think Indra felt she had the situation under control without escalating things for a while. She was totally unphased by most of what Mae did like a teacher watching a child throw a tantrum and waiting for them to stop. But then she saw it getting more and more out of control. This lined up perfectly with my understanding of Jedi teachings. It’s an oversight of you only if you turn it into one. I would have been surprised if Indra had just pulled her lightsaber right away. That would have been an escalation and a bit ridiculous. And a lightsaber won’t help when she has someone with a knife to their throat. What would she have done with a lightsaber in that moment? So my feeling is that your “hate”, in this specific instance at least, is unfounded. And I’m sorry because that’s something that can be construed as an attack on you but it should not be. You have a deeply thought out concept. But, there are other ways of perceiving Jedi teachings at this time and I think some of it has been overlooked by you from my own point of view. Short run times I agree with. There needed to be more time to develop character relationships and intentions. And I do think that Kennedy has been a poor leader for quality control for many years which is sad.

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

I actually added a rebuttal below. I hope you read and consider it as well.

[@programmedgamer7101]

@starwarsmusicanalysis Unfortunately, I am not convinced by this. I said Obi Wan did it twice. The second time was over twenty years prior, before the Clone Wars even existed. Zam was directly trying to kill both Obi Wan and potentially Anakin, who pursued the assassin for several minutes. Her arm was sliced off as soon as he detected the assassin. That marks a consistent response to hostilities within crowded areas. Maybe you can defend that as Obi Wan's personal behavior, but that just seems so uncharacteristic for him to be direct being so much of the ideal jedi in conduct. I just don't buy that she can walk up to Indara, threaten her, beat up the people she was sitting with one by one, and then Indara steps in. It's so apparently negligent. The only excuse to fall back on is the high republic jedi are functionally useless as keepers of the peace. If this is normal for the high republic jedi, I'm not compelled by the idea of watching them. How inspiring is the concept that bystanders can get their teeth kicked in until someone uses the force next to a jedi? That's simply a complete inversion for an organization only 100 years younger with 20,000 years of development and the same grandmaster for hundreds of years.

[@programmedgamer7101]

@starwarsmusicanalysis A simple remediation could have completely fixed this sticking point. Indara isn't there to begin with. In a room, perhaps. This is what I mean about desperately needing a script doctor. Mae shows up, beats up people, and then Indara steps in after hearing all the ruckus. It doesn't fix her odd behavior afterward in my eyes, but at least it allows Mae to assert her strength in a way that does not aggravate normal sensibilities. Have her say the lines after that. This entire scene made much more sense with a simple tweak to the scenes setup.

[@drbuckley1]

First, the score is the only thing about the show that I haven't seen criticized. Second, central aspects of the cannon have been broken. This is not a simple complaint about a performance here or a special effects there. This was a central conceit intentionally emphasized in Episode One. An example for discussion, raised by Theory: How could the Jedi Council believe there had been no Sith or murdered Jedis for "a thousand years" in Episode One? That is more than a disposable plot twist. That's a central error. Finally, unless your name is Williams, I think score composers receive far less credit and attention than they deserve.

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

I totally agree with your musical points. Score has been mostly great and every Star Wars composer post Williams is writing in impossibly big shoes to fill. The Kylo Ren theme is getting some criticism but it IS weird. I’m waiting to see if they show that it’s for a clear reason. For the canon portion that you mentioned, I’m really glad you brought this up. I think we saw even within that episode 4 discussion that this entire thing is being kept from the high council and that this seems to be something that happens a lot since the coven ordeal was kept from them as well. There are several examples from High Republic novels where Jedi hid things from the high council. My guess is that this is leading to Sol being framed and then dying and so nobody will ever think to suspect there was a Sith. Since Mae never uses a lightsaber/crimson blade, they just assume she’s some random assassin that’s been trained in very skilled combat. They’re so certain that the Sith have been gone for 900 years, that they immediately assume Mae was just trained by a dark/fallen Jedi. Verbestra says as much. And just imagine something from 900 years ago in our history suddenly reemerging. It would be hard to immediately (Still not great, but not a Sith so phew as far as they’re concerned) I used to love Theory’s videos. But I think he jumps to conclusions when things don’t play out the way he would have done it, and doesn’t let people tell a story any more. Obviously the Sith were still in existence and certainly doing more than just sitting around. It makes sense that the creators would have been aware of this conflict of canon and it’s probably half of why they put Ki-Adi Mundi there. To show that he was right there and still was ignorant to all of it. Now, if at the end of this season, somebody who was on Khofar lives or learns about Qimir and the Jedi still don’t figure it out, then that’s messed up. But you already see the Jedi leading to the conclusion that Sol was the secret mastermind of all of this. Those are my thoughts on it. I’d love to hear what your thoughts about it are and if you think my idea makes any sense or not.

[@jamiel6169]

Having worked in tech theatre - I know full well you can have technical elements of a show that are doing their best job. Maybe the realize the show is bad, maybe they don't have enough exposure, but they are doing their individual job well. Composers, fight choreographers - they can do a good job and still fail because of how the director uses them. That's not the fault of the tech artists.

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

Agreed. I do feel that the directing was poor in certain episodes, especially in the first half of the season. I felt it did improve overall as the show continued. I’ve had similar experiences as a composer/musician.

[@generalkenobi7710]

I'm a bit shocked that Abels spoke about the backlash. Most I ever hear from composers, is if their either talking about the soundtrack (completly normal though, in behind the scenes or tweets), or if their changing the theme of a character (for ex how Junkie XL, acknowledged that he'd change the Batman theme from BVS. Very happy he actually addressed theme continuity). I just feel like the major issue with this show is the force cult. Also with the fact that Osha and Mae are born without a father (maybe they'll tie that loose end in the last ep??) kinda makes the whole idea of Anakin being the only one born under said circumstances a bit less unique in my opinion. Everything else (in my opinion) is pretty ok, some of the arguments is just flatly silly. No I don't think Ki-Adi-Mundi's line in TPM was ruined, because we keep forgetting that the Jedi, were never really the good guys, they cover stuff up all the time (and did a lot of covering up in the Clone Wars) so it makes sense to me that they attempt to cover up and keep the whole drama of Mae killing 4 jedi from the council and under the rug. Plus, to keep in mind, the council themselves would definitely cover up the Sith and the dark side, so jedi like Sol, Venestra, Yord and Ki-Adi (at the time.) wouldnt know squat shit about the Sith. Plus we don't really know how long ago the old republic era was in the canon. With the issue of the Coven, I actually don't think a force cult is a bad idea, it can actually be a good idea if they done it differently. (I think a rogue cult of former Jedi who got exiled for tapping into both light and dark would go 10x harder than a random cult of 'witches') The way they handled it, like describing how they view the force didn't really sit well with me. Plus the acting in ep 7 was super rusty for me. I do kinda feel bad for Abels though, because after watching all your analysis of the Acolyte (great job btw I love them) I realized that Abels does a very good job honoring Williams, but because of the backlash its thrown under the rug a lot. (though I will say the little 'power of two' thing, wasnt handled very well. They kept hyping it up, but honestly it wasn't very great. the chanting in ep 3 was pretty rough for me and the pop song was...well. unexpected. i didn't realized till I watched your video lol). I also think that Torbin killing himself wasn't really that...well thought out. Because I thought that since he basically offed himself I thought he'd done some pretty messed up shit which is why he took that vow. If anything that vow to just meditate is specifically for trying to reflect on your mistakes, but in ep 7, I think Torbin acted pretty logically, so I don't feel like his suicide was very justified. But their's still plenty things I like, apart from the score. The choreography is incredible (at least everyone can agree) and in my opinion, I think out of all the eras in Star Wars, the High Republic is definitely the most safe and livable 😅 so I'm glad the portrayed that well in the first two episodes. Maybe if the amount of episodes was 12 like Andor instead of 8 and if disney hired writers with a more solid track record then maybe we'd be in a different position with this show. But I don't really know, since their's so many things that goes down in this industry and I feel like everyone forgets that all the time and don't know very much about the process of hiring a writer for a show or movie. (Also completely separate but why do you only analyze music from Star Wars related content? Why not branch off to franchises? Is it because of interest in giving the time to actually watch and dissect those shows?)

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

These are all rational grievances. I was fine with the way the demonstrated the force cult. I can think of plenty of more cringe real life cults. Yeah the positives of this show have been lost in all of the nonsense. Abels has done a terrific job. I mostly really enjoy everything he’s written but nobody’s able to get there because of everything else being discussed. I do Star Wars only because it’s where my interest is, mostly because of Williams. But to be honest, keeping up with Star Wars alone is more than I can handle during some parts of the year with work as well. If I expanded things, the quality would go way downhill.

[@andrewlutes2048]

I’m wondering which important things the show honors? Like, are there any examples?

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

I’m not sure I understand your question.

[@andrewlutes2048]

@@starwarsmusicanalysis 2:25 You quote Abels “I think that our show is honoring the things that are important about Star Wars for a lot of people” and I’m curious about examples of which things were honored.

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

Oh I see. I think ultimately that’s a question for Abels. I can’t speak for him. So take my thoughts with a grain of salt with no authority to them. I think the show honors the ease for dark side users to not follow rules and to easily tempt others. Meanwhile, the Jedi struggle with themselves to be an image of perfection that is near impossible. It honors Lucas’s vision of the Jedi being mixed up in politics of the Republic. It honors the very ideas of good versus evil and inner character struggle, even for the best of heroes and the temptations that follow them. I’m sure there are things that you feel it doesn’t honor though, and I’d be happy to hear your thoughts as well if you’d like.

[@fuzzymctwitch1906]

@@starwarsmusicanalysis yeah you do... you can't answer the question because you're full of shit.

[@andrewlutes2048]

@@starwarsmusicanalysis But those are all examples from your headcanon. Are there examples from the show? Like, are there any musical nods to Williams (or the composers Williams obviously referenced), or any specific actions the characters in Acolyte took that honored important lore in Star Wars?

[@jungleblazers1249]

Props on Abels for speaking out. I struggle to find a worse feeling than putting your art out there for the world to see only to now have to face all this backlash. It would make want to crawl inside a whole and never come out. And yeah, so much of the "criticism" is being made by people who had already decided they would hate the show before the first episode aired. To me there are some issues with the show such as pacing, but these issues do not warrant the level of hate this show has gotten. On an earlier comment I said tone was also an issue, but honestly, looking back, Star Wars has always been goofy one scene and dead serious the next. Perhaps the biggest failure of the show was the marketing. They labeled this show as the next 'Andor' and with that came great expectations.

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

Yeah. That’s like saying the next John Williams. Just don’t. Haha. This just wasn’t the hill for haters to die on. But yeah, huge props to Abels. He handled this all so diplomatically. A true role model for us all.

[@ninvusoogoar6098]

lets be honest this show is really bad, its not the worst one disney has made but its not a good show, its slightly worse than ahsoka which was bad as well. unlike the other shows if you remotely paid attention to interviews/promo material the red flags for this show being another trash fire were EVERYWHERE.... which is why you got people ready to be bad and not like it, and shock and awe it turned out bad. the issues with disney star wars is the writing, lack of talent on screen and execution... you said "Star Wars has always been goofy one scene and dead serious the next" - YOU, but that utterly removes the context out of what really matters... how its executed.... thats like taking a really good monster movie and saying its the same as sharknado because "monster movies have always been a little over the top" theres degrees to things and the execution is critical. and look, its 100% okay to like bad shows/movies and 100% okay to dislike good shows/movies, objectivity and subjectivity are not mutually exclusive... a lot of people lack the intelligence/emotional maturity to be able to divorce themselves from their emotions and look at something with a more critical/objective eye. look i love monster movies, sharknado, any bigfoot/werewolf movie ill eat em all up. but ill never lie to you or to myself by trying to say the sharknado movies are good movies simply because i enjoy them... and a lot of people have a big issue with accepting the acolyte is just a bad, poorly written star wars show that doesnt do a whole lot and still enjoy it despite its major issues. the marketing wasnt the biggest mistake they made with this show... it was the writing and showrunner they picked. and frankly its not just one big mistake its a mountain of tiny issues that have piled up. remember the acolyte has the run time of close to the entire original trilogy... and they STILL couldnt tell even a fraction of the story the OT or PT told.

[@popcrazyfishProductions]

Honestly, the acolytes no where near as bad as people try to make out, it's probably the best thing Disney has made since Andor. The hate is just ridiculous and yet they continue to watch the whole season.

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

I’m there with you. It’s crazy to me how divided the sentiments can be though. Is this just the reality of everything now? Can nothing just exist unto itself?

[@luispalao7418]

No, it really is that bad

[@GW2Vids1]

The dude has no idea tbh if he says that it doesnt matter that they brought in Ki Adi Mundi, especially that character!!

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

You’re saying this because you assume that Ki Adi Mundi should now know about the Sith existing. But what are you basing that assumption on?

[@tyguy477]

​@@starwarsmusicanalysis Him being in a council where they talk about a couple of Jedi masters that were killed from a force (dark side) user and it openly being discussed that there must be Master as well. Followed up by something like 10 more Jedi killed on a mission to stop the next attack. How would he not know, or follow up to find out? If you assume Ki Adi is literally brain dead along with the rest Jedi on/in the council you might have a point.

[@GW2Vids1]

@@starwarsmusicanalysis have you seen the episodes? Someone gave the answer already. It's also completely unnecessary to bring him into the acolyte. What for? He was just standing there listening to the reports.

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

@tyguy477 I don’t need to assume anything of the sort. Dark side force user does not equal Sith. They suggest as much in that very meeting by stating it was likely a fallen Jedi that trained Mae. I don’t want to ruin the end of the season but my then, this gets pinned elsewhere as well and gets tied up as far as the Jedi are concerned. Watch to the end and you have your answer.

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

He was there to demonstrate the weight of his line in TPM. By placing the guy who states the Sith have been extinct for 1000 years in the room, it heightens the fact that the Jedi can’t even fathom the possibility that this is a Sith. Now, to be fair to them, Mae is using daggers and while she is using the force, that’s nowhere near enough for her to be considered part of a faction that nobody has seen in existence for 900 years. Look, even after Qui-Gon says hey Jedi council, I just fought a guy with a red lightsaber that fought like a Sith, Mundi was in denial. So, would Mae and her daggers really make him think Sith? Or just some force sensitivity angry woman that had some serious training from a fallen Jedi as they even suggest in the meeting. Go back and listen to the conversation. Yes, I’ve watched all the episodes, multiple times in order to create my breakdowns. Was that a serious question or were you just being condescending?

[@dratsi0117]

Im not sure its unorecented for backlash. I think its jaut the itjernet being the interent. Its different than reality. The acolyte is a show i love cause ot takes the starwars story in a direction back to the history of the jedi and it certainly does it better than the sequle trilogy. So im excited.

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

It’s definitely the internet being the internet. Haha But then the internet seems to always become reality.

[@PsychicAlchemy]

It's quite simple: It's always been the flagrant disregard for consistency. I was on board with Disney rebooting the setting for this very reason, but then they went full non-sequitur. If major plot points don't follow a flow of cause-and-effect, then the story is meaningless. In some cases there's an outright _rejection_ of the notion of meaning. All the incredible talent that goes into these shows gets completely ruined by bad writing. At least with the EU, the canon hierarchy allowed the audience to ignore or retcon things that didn't make sense, because the core canon (Lucas' films) was consistent. But Disney's storyline, especially in the crowning fixture of their new canon, is as consistent as Swiss cheese. I enjoyed the first two seasons of Mando well enough, but I haven't bothered watching or playing anything since then. Because no matter how good any particular piece of media is, it all leads to the same place. I don't want to invest any emotional connections into something that is fundamentally nihilistic.

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

What plot points of Acolyte don’t follow cause and effect by the end of the season if you don’t mind? I can’t respond well or speak to vague ideas.

[@PsychicAlchemy]

@@starwarsmusicanalysis I'm speaking more to Disney's canon overall, the trilogy in particular. I can't speak to the Acolyte specifically because I haven't watched it, but I assume people have just reached their breaking point. You may be inclined to dismiss me because I haven't watched it, but you'd be missing a crucial point: The show can't just be taken on its own, it's part of a larger continuity. If the continuity is rotten at its core, then even good elements can't be enjoyed anymore. Any bad elements, however small, will simply reinforce people's distaste for the whole thing.

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

@PsychicAlchemy I think you’re right that people have reached a breaking point which is why this backlash felt so over the top when I would have imagined it more for other things in the past, like the sequels which struggled to tell a cohesive story. I’m not dismissing you at all. But I will say that if people are going in with a bad mindset/bad intentions to watch it, they’re guaranteeing themselves a worse experience which only then becomes exponential. Obviously, this is easier said than done. But it’s worth people being aware of as much as possible.

[@gruenjapfaelzer9628]

Hightened group of people you mean the majority of the audience...

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

I do not. I meant a group that is being louder and more aggressive than normal. The majority of the audience doesn’t care this much to begin with. 😂

[@ActionRan]

this video already ratiod 48 likes to 228 dislikes.

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

@ActionRan and? What about the other 1300 people who watched it?

[@ActionRan]

@@starwarsmusicanalysis What about them? Maybe they ain't logged in on an account to dislike this video. You're basically shitting on people who didn't like the Acolyte for which people have expressed clearly why they do not. Also you're shitting on people who don't speak English very well cause they have bad grammar and are bad at spelling, invalidating their opinions to defend this bad show (which you maybe like for other reasons it's DEI and LBGT+ agenda, but I doubt it. I think you are defending this mostly for the LBGT+ and DEI reasons, cause the show, is, really bad)

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

@ActionRan I’m not crapping on anyone. As I state, there are things to gripe about with this show. But people have turned it into a campaign of trashing things in the show in ways that don’t make sense. I know the difference between bad grammar and non-English speakers because I have real life experience with both commonly. I’m not invalidating the opinions of anyone but most of these comments don’t have any substance even if they were well written. I’m not defending the show so please don’t misrepresent what I said. And what about this show has to do with the cultural elements that you suggested beyond some of the creators and their identities. Culture wars have nothing to do with the way I feel about this show. Though since you brought it up, I’d wonder whether you could say the same. I know the show has flaws. I have things I don’t like about it. And I don’t care about the identity of anyone involved. But most of the complaints about the plot I see don’t make sense unless you make assumptions that tend overlook other details in the show. Fans used to have incredible deeply thought out analysis of shows. Now, all you can get out of people are comments like yours that start blaming people’s agendas. I’d just love to talk about the show in a calm way that actually attempts to address real concerns.

[@Jackster8484]

I didn't get why the flash back episode was episode 3 and not just the first episode. Like i had to many annoying questions about the first two episodes that where answered in the 3th. Like this was more about. why should i care about these people questions. Fundamental to keeping me invested.

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

I was surprised at how early the flashback was as well at first. But as we went back to the present, knowing about the past made us approach everything differently in the modern story which was the goal. We experienced ep. 4-6 as Osha understood things to be then.

[@phoenixr6811]

Thanks for you do🥰 I’m glad you spoke about his opinion your right, most composers don’t speak about shows they work on.

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

It’s a convenience of being a composer as much as it sucks. You write your music and then become forgotten. I’m glad he gave his thoughts, which I thought were really diplomatic and fair. (Way more than mine to be sure. Haha)

[@sifelong7546]

Disney is killing the magic with low quality in writing, acting, costumes, environment of fiction. That disconnects the audience from movie and score/music. Its crazy people believe the fans are threatening and its the fans fault that this show wasnt a success

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

I don’t think the fans have anything to do with success or not. But I do think, when compared to reactions of other shows, that this show is receiving considerably more backlash in an unbalanced way. And I think a lot of what people are upset about is a result of people going into it with a sour attitude and so perceptions were skewed. I haven’t heard costumes before. Whose costume was low quality in your opinion?

[@sifelong7546]

@@starwarsmusicanalysis man if I do not like the most of them. Yord fander (cosplay lvl) Sol Jecki Torbin (young torbin was ok but not good, older torbin was real ugly) Koril (Mother, really ugly horns which look so digital and unnatural,not like with Darth maul) The other mother (face tattoo and costume) Ki adi mundi (looks to different, especially as a younger version) Venestra, only green body painting, it misses more details Qimirs helmet, after kylo ren it's ridiculous to go the same route again with such a similar mask to kylo and the knights of ren Mae, was nearly ok but looked cheap

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

Aren’t they wearing nearly identical costumes to prequel Jedi? I’m not sure what you expected to be wearing differently. Ki Adi Mundi looks about 100 years different. That’s the level of aging between a baby and most people being in the ground. Obviously it’s a different actor as well. Qimir’s helmet is only similar in the shape of the back. Otherwise it’s totally different. Not even the same color or material. Old Torbin was way too old. I don’t know what was up with that one. I don’t know. I’m just not seeing what the improvement on a lot of these would actually be. They looked like characters in a Star Wars show.

[@sifelong7546]

@@starwarsmusicanalysis ki adi mundis head looks not well made. Sizing and form. Qimirs helmet fits to all the helmets of kylo and the knights of ren. It gets boring, just leave the helmets or make'em more interesting ( we're talking about the looks) I agree bad more of a budget show and that's the problem. There's no love to the detail anymore

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

@sifelong7546 I don’t know. You could totally be right on all of this. Maybe this is even your specialty. But I honestly just don’t see what you see and it’s certainly not my area of focus. I’m sorry because I wish I could see it. I hope that’s ok.

[@ethsch13]

Well said man, refreshing to see balanced input from anyone these days. For me, I’m enjoying the show for the most part, and have been defending it pretty strongly, but I do have my own criticisms, since you asked. For one, the pacing just doesn’t work well for me. I think the flashback episodes were absolutely necessary, and I liked the unreliable narration reveals and such that came with it. However, they felt like really jarring hits to my weekly interest in the present-day story. I think the show would’ve benefitted from a higher episode count, to give us more time with Yord, Jecki, and Qimir especially, which I think would make the story as a whole more impactful. My second criticism is probably my biggest, as in pretty much any moments contained outside the first two episodes, I find Mae & Osha to be fairly uninteresting or even confusing characters, despite sorta being the core of the entire series. I liked some of her individual portrayal of the twins in the first two episodes specifically, but I really feel like Amanda Stenberg just wasn’t the right person for the role. Sometimes the twins feel different, sometimes they feel the same, sometimes she’s overacting, and sometimes she’s under acting, and of course we’ve all spent plenty of time poking fun at the constant heavy breathing lol. Her performance just doesn’t hit the emotional beats it needs to for me, especially when compared to the rest of the very talented cast. A few other small things here and there bug me, but honestly, I’m loving a lot of what this show has to say, and Sol is honestly such a refreshingly complex character for Star Wars. I just wonder how much greater this good story could have been if not for a few major flaws. Probably a B or B- Star Wars show in my opinion, if the finale is decent. I’m curious if you feel the same?

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

I totally agree with you. Maybe not more episodes, but certainly longer episodes with just a little more character interaction. It was still shocking to see them killed so unceremoniously though. I don’t know where I would have placed the flashbacks differently even though I agree that I was sad that it took from the modern day story. Maybe snippets interwoven into each episode? But then that may have made no sense. Amandla has been weak. But I blame that as much on the directors. What are they telling her? It’s definitely an unconventional role(s) to play. But I can’t get as emotionally involved with her characters. Sol and Qimir though have been shining over everything. About a B for me as well. Because again, the show has flaws. But this “it’s garbage” stuff is misguided. I’m frustrated by the intention of the themes as well. I think Abel’s was really trying to be clever and I still, 7 episodes in, don’t know if it worked and am confused by what the themes represent. That’s a problem.

[@ethsch13]

@@starwarsmusicanalysis 100% with you on all of this. 👍

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

@ethsch13 thank you!

[@ninvusoogoar6098]

its a pretty bad show but at least you are able to point out that it has a lot of flaws and that you still like it despite said flaws... for some reason a lot of the defenders seem kind of moronic and just seem to love the show with such intensity purely over the surface level stuff. more episodes wouldnt have done this show any good if the writing and bad characters remain, and replace 98% of the cast who are just trash at acting or at the least have bad direction. most of this show does not work the moment you apply any sort of internal logic to it, it doesnt work in-universe either.

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

@ninvusoogoar6098 I always try to be fair about things. I think some people are tired of dealing with actual a-holes that tell them they’re stupid for liking shows. Everyone’s just overly touchy. It’s not a good look for any of us as fans. I honestly think it’s the directing more than the acting. I can see potential with these actors but no direction. I think the show does work logic. But it also can be broken with logic. It’s a show, not reality so it becomes what we allow it to. Any show or movie requires some level of imaginations and suspense of reality. It’s always going to be harder for us as adult to enjoy new Star Wars than it was for us as kids for this reason.

[@SandraOrtmann1976]

My main problem with "The Acolyte" is that the writers and directors obviously took hardly into account that this is not a separate island or a story without any relation to what is already there. Yes, there are Jedi in the series. The jedi do not act like jedi, despite being at their height. They act a lot like headless chicken. And a jedi collecting grass and moss and swinging an obviously earthy metal detector? Good grief. They had a special department for that of apprentices who did not make it to jedi. A group of these would have been appropriate. And there are many other "little things" like that which add up to paint a very strange picture. I have nothing against a prequel story to the prequels. But at least try what George Lucas did and integrate it well so that the story continues, so to speak, backwards in time. And do not try to tell "your story" and "your take on Star Wars". This is not the place to do so. If you want to tell your story and your beliefs - make your own universe and name. Do not tack "Star Wars" on it to use the existing fanbase. Thank you so much. Episode 8 and 9 also do not exist in my canon. But at least here because the story is bad. And characters were so wasted to a bad, inconsise story IMO. Finn, General Hux, Captain Phasma, Po Dameron and yes, even Rey. I think Finn deserves his own trilogy about his Stormtrooper rebellion. That would be something new, truly interesting. But at least there were somewhat interesting character in the Sequel Trilogy. But in the Acolyte - Sol, maybe. Apart from that...nobody, really.

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

Personally, I think the Jedi act exactly how I would expect them to. And that’s the key difference. We all have different expectations of what the Jedi were really doing before the prequels. But a group of thousands that claim to be all righteous and pure will always raise red flags for me. Jedi aren’t perfect. They’re going to make mistakes, act rash from time to time. And is they’re under this muse that they are always perfect, then when that is not the case, they’re going to pretend things didn’t happen or cover it up. The Catholic Church is a perfect t example in the real world. There’s the image that’s been portrayed and then the one that is now clearly exposed, despite the coverups of a “morally pure” organization. I saw the metal detector too. I assumed they were looking for specific metals in the ground or anything like that that could give them clues. They were likely analyzing the chemical compounds of the grass. These things all seemed very clear to me. They’re analyzing everything they can in ways that look very tedious because they are. I’m not sure how this deviates from George’s story. It seems to fall in line with what he wanted to convey. The story is even filling plot points from George’s prequels. I’m frustrated if you’ve been unable to see that. Episodes 8 & 9 were a jumbled mess. (Thank you Rian Johnson and Kathleen Kennedy) Really? Just Sol? What about Qimir? I’m curious to know more about the Coven, the vergence, and the planet as a whole. I want to know what’s up with Vernestra. I think, ultimately, it’s just a matter of different points of view. Most of what you mentioned seems to have obvious answers that I was drawn to unprompted when watching. That said, are there flaws in the script and poor acting and directing at times? Yes. I’m not sitting here trying to defend the show for anything. But a lot of concerns still seem fabricated to me.

[@Dykwiaornot]

Everything is poor in the acolyte but the writing is most responsible for this garbage of a show. The characters that are defined are inconsistent, the main character has no agency, the dialogues are not inspiring at all and never resolve anything. The script uses cheap tricks to make the time pass, and nothing interesting happens. Everything is contrivances or bad judgement on the part of poorly written Jedi that lack the composure, foresight and wisdom that should characterize them. I would be interested in your take on the credit soundtrack of episode 7, do you find that acceptable? Do you recognize Star Wars? It sounded like some cheap CW teen drama, which in retrospect fits The Acolyte perfectly.

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

I don’t know what I mean by “do I recognize Star Wars” I didn’t like the credit music for episode 7. I talk about it specifically in my breakdown for that episode. I also didn’t like the chanting with the non-diegetic music in episode 3. I’m not here to defend every choice like poor dialogue and directing at times. I’m just trying to figure out why nobody can find middle ground. Why people are actually telling me I’m evil when I make an arrangement for a character theme from this show. It’s unreal. The script isn’t perfect, but it is not as terrible as what many have suggested. Aside from what I mentioned, the music has been pretty good. The fight scenes have been incredible, though even those some people seem to think are the worst ever. So not everything is poor. And when you watch the show to the end, character’s motives begin to make a lot more sense. But a lot of it was never given a chance.

[@Dykwiaornot]

I don't agree at all. The motives of the characters make no sense. Every character is either extremely stupid or afflicted by the worst bipolar symptoms I've ever witnessed.

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

@Dykwiaornot let’s start with Sol. He’s trying to cover up a mistake he made but conflicted about doing the right thing. Or Mae who just wants revenge. Most of all because her entire family is dead. Then she sees Osha and all of this killing seems pointless because she just wants to be back with her sister. Osha is a person who lost their family and then was tossed out by the Jedi order. She wants answers more than anything. But she also desires an attachment to someone.

[@Dykwiaornot]

@@starwarsmusicanalysis Sol knows he was right to intervene and can't articulate his point of view because Jedi must be weak bitches in this show. On Mae and Osha, you are forgetting many steps and I will also have to myself for the sake of brevity. My point is this show is a convoluted mess. Mae wants revenge, then wants to be with her sister, then back to revenge then decides it's better if the truth is told to the Council and the Republic, then settles for her sister alone knowing it and killing Sol, then volunteers to get Alzheimer and be separated from her sister. Osha, just wants to live her life, then has to prove her innocence but wants nothing to do with the resolution of the case, she spares Mae. She then reforms bonds with her former Jedi friends but prevents the execution of their murderer to let his fate be decided by moths, then wants to save Sol from Mae and rejects the training of Smilo. She tells her sister she has been hating her all her life. Then ends up learning a part of the truth but doesn't let Sol, whom she's supposed to trust more than the sister she saw burn the temple, make his point. She kills him, becomes a Sith on the spot, ends up holding hands with Smilo. I didn't like all that. I hated most of it.

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

I think explaining that I was right to kill your mom is a tough sell for anyone. And he doesn’t want to hurt Osha in the process. (Too late) Look Mae and Osha are confusing. I can totally agree to that. The flip flops are too easy throughout. What I noticed though is they always balance each other. As one gets darker, the other seems to uncontrollably become more noble. I wonder if it has something to do with the balance of them being the same person. I dislike the flips in character too though.

[@hotfroganimations]

I appreciate his words and his work, but not who he’s working for.

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

You don’t like the person or you don’t like their work? Are we talk Headland, Kennedy, or yes to both?

[@chickenporkadob0]

i had high hopes with the show and even gave an average score on the first 2 episodes but my interests slowly diminished as the story gets bad in every episodes.

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

That’s interesting. I honestly felt like after episode 4, the story gradually improved.

[@chickenporkadob0]

@@starwarsmusicanalysis glad you see it that way. i wish the story is about qimir and sol because they're the ones better written and interesting than mae and osha.

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

@chickenporkadob0 from what I’ve read, season 2 (it’s inevitable) is a lot more exploration of Qimir and his backstory.

[@chickenporkadob0]

@@starwarsmusicanalysis nice !! anyhow mae and osha is the worst part of the show and hopefully if s2 is green lit they'll get rid of her.

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

@chickenporkadob0 I doubt they’ll get rid of her but maybe the story will be begin to branch off from her more.

[@neonhavok]

You really think all this backlash is unprecedented? After the last jedi, rise of skywalker, mando season 3, kenobi, book of boba fett..... im suprised its taken this long, not to mention the warnings mark hamill gave, the lies KK told about the behind the scenes of the sequels, and the blatant character assassinations of luke skywalker and such, the stupidifying of characters like thrawn. You have a point that shouldnt be refuted, that a lot of things like thrawn, and ki adis age, everything before episode 1 was not official canon, but when you have kathleen kennedy saying there isnt any source material, but then having her sign off on shows that pull things directly from the non canon EU, in a incompetent way full of plat holes and not even abiding by the canon rules....... unprecedented is a lil crazy to say. Also basing your interests on your youtibe channel name, did u see nothing wrong with the ep7 acolyte outro song? its like they dont care about the symphonic aesthetic of star wars, and decided to throw in pop RnB.

[@ninvusoogoar6098]

to be fair mundis age was in canon materials officially made by lucasfilm like the trading card game and the prequel interactive art books they made for each movie which gave information about characters and tech/locations from each.... including mundis age, species and species life span. the sequels/ahsoka/book of boba/kenobi/mando S3/tales of the empire (or midpire as people call it) and now acolyte.... you'd have to be a moron, a casual fan, a brand fan (those who love the star wars brand regardless of its lack of quality) or someone who barely engages with the product to think this backlash is unwarranted or unprecedented

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

I don’t think ALL the backlash is unprecedented. But this level of it? For a show that isn’t incredible but isn’t the worst thing ever? Yeah. And a Star Wars show has never been review bombed like this before. That’s what unprecedented means. And look, I think the best thing for Star Wars is for KK to step away. She’s bad at her job in how she manages and handles PR. So again, I am not saying that nothing is wrong with the show. I actually specifically called out the outro music in my episode 7 breakdown. I’m not trying to defend the show as something glorious. Just trying to be level headed with criticisms so that they can actually be taken seriously.

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

Those trading cards and other materials were not canon as of when George sold the rights to Disney because they weren’t his creation to sell. They have not been canon for 10 years and we all know that by now. And yes, I’m calling it unprecedented because this really is a new level of complaints. And the review bombing is new. That’s what u precedents means. Find me another example of that level of it Star Wars. Were fans upset about other things already? Yes. But that’s already part of the problem. Being so mad about everything that you are no longer capable of enjoyment.

[@SilasBullock]

This just doesn't feel like Star Wars. Slo mo edits, pop music, a focus on a sith wanting to hook up with someone and no character being interesting beside Qimir and Sol. This should have been a movie because the plot is not interesting enough to drag out over 1 season or however many there will be. Everything is rushed and when everything is rushed, you have to make sure your still writing the story well, but that isnt the case. The Force Awakens was not great but felt like star wars with the score, world building and characters. Since that movie disney has tried there best to change Star Wars and it sucks to see such a cool world ruined.

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

That’s fair. There were certainly different stylistic differences. But in truth, this happens with every new creator. In a perfect world, George would just keep making Star Wars forever. I don’t mind the slo motion fight stuff personally. On some level, Disney has to push things forward with change. It can’t just repeat the same narrative and tropes like Force Awakens did. There are definitely parts of this story that are rushed for no reason. But the story is really complex yet intriguing to me. I love how this is playing into the Sith grand plan and Plagieus’s plans as we go forward.

[@ActionRan]

Upon re-watching your video while writing my response, I find it frustrating how you dismiss criticism of the show without elaborating on your points. You mention that people say the show is bad but don't elaborate - perhaps some commenters prefer brevity, while others have extensively explained their concerns, which I've seen a lot of. In your video, you criticize others for not elaborating, yet you fail to explain why you disagree with their points or even mention their arguments. This approach seems shady because you're not allowing viewers to judge for themselves whether those criticisms are valid or not; you're asking them to take your word for it. You also don't explain why you believe the show isn't bad or provide evidence to counter the claims of misinformation that you attribute to others. It's amusing to me that you complain about a lack of elaboration when you engage in the same practice yourself. Viewers want constructive discussions backed by reasoning, not dismissals without substance. Once again incase somebody missed my other reply to you, I write it again. You're basically shitting on people who didn't like the Acolyte for which people have expressed clearly why they do not. Also you're shitting on people who don't speak English very well cause they have bad grammar and are bad at spelling, invalidating their opinions to defend this bad show (which you maybe like for other reasons it's DEI and LBGT+ agenda, but I doubt it. I think you are defending this mostly for the LBGT+ and DEI reasons, cause the show, is, really bad)

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

I understand brevity. But if you want to start commenting in short bursts and then refuse to follow up when someone asks you to clarify or explain your position, then it just feels lazy, like a kid saying something just to get a reaction. I remained vague though because I did not want to point out anyone specifically. I assumed we all know what I meant because these grievances have been echoed nonstop. Obviously, you don’t have this issue and I really appreciate your thought out responses. We obviously don’t agree on everything, but we can have a dialogue and that’s the key thing that’s been missing. I wanted people to discuss in the comments because it allows for a better back and forth dialogue. I considered sitting there and breaking down my thoughts for every criticism that I don’t understand. But then I realized that was never the actual intent of this video and it would begin to go off on too many tangents that would divert from the key message that I wanted to provide. And inevitably, I would have missed certain points being made and then that would have been a whole mess. However, I was always prepared to discuss with every single commenter whatever their specific grievances were, not in a way where I immediately trash their thoughts but in a way where I hear what they have to and respond in a respectful manner. Though I can see how you may have taken this in a different way. It’s a legit concern that you bring up. But I did elaborate on many of my points. Far more than a five word comment that nobody cares to follow up on. Ultimately, the video could have been two hours. But I drew that line at a place that opened the door for dialogue. I responded to your other comment separately. Please don’t continue to misrepresent me based on your own misguided assumptions. I’m sure you’ve seen plenty of people immediately accuse anyone criticizing the show of the opposite intention. I’m not interested in playing that ridiculous game. I want to talk about concerns with the actual show, learn from other fans, and vice versa.

[@KentTagge]

The primary concern regarding Ki-Adi-Mundi is not what most people assume. The major issue fans have stems from his statement in "The Phantom Menace" that the Sith had not been seen for over 1000 years. "The Acolyte" portrays him as either a traitor or profoundly ignorant, given that the plot of "The Acolyte" revolves around a murder mystery with a Sith as the main antagonist. This portrayal contradicts the established timeline and undermines the character's credibility. Furthermore, the show contains numerous plot holes and generally lacks coherence. Fans' criticisms are far from trivial; they highlight significant issues that either defy logical consistency or violate the fundamental rules of the Star Wars universe. It is crucial for creators working on Star Wars projects to adhere to the established lore from previous films. Deviating from these principles for the sake of an inconsistent narrative is detrimental to the franchise's integrity. While my perspective is admittedly biased, I believe that "The Acolyte" is a mediocre show with poor writing, and its political ideas interfere with the story.

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

I’m really glad you brought this up. I think we saw even within that episode 4 discussion that this entire thing is being kept from the high council and that this seems to be something that happens a lot since the coven ordeal was kept from them as well. There are several examples from High Republic novels where Jedi hid things from the high council. My guess is that this is leading to Sol being framed and then dying and so nobody will ever think to suspect there was a Sith. The plot hole, so far at least, has been manufactured. Since Mae never uses a lightsaber/crimson blade, they just assume she’s some random assassin that’s been trained in very skilled combat. They’re so certain that the Sith have been gone for 900 years, that they immediately assume Mae was just trained by a dark/fallen Jedi. Verbestra says as much. And just imagine something from 900 years ago in our history suddenly reemerging. It would be hard to immediately (Still not great, but not a Sith so phew as far as they’re concerned) Obviously the Sith were still in existence and certainly doing more than just sitting around. It makes sense that the creators would have been aware of this conflict of canon and it’s probably half of why they put Ki-Adi Mundi there. To show that he was right there and still was ignorant to all of it. Now, if at the end of this season, somebody who was on Khofar lives or learns about Qimir and the Jedi still don’t figure it out, then that’s messed up. But you already see the Jedi leading to the conclusion that Sol was the secret mastermind of all of this. This show has not deviated from lore unless you begin assuming things that aren’t there to assume. I also have not seen a single example of where a political idea in the show gets in the way of anything. Are they there, yes? But getting in the way of anything, not one bit. Those are my thoughts on it. I’d love to hear what your thoughts about it are and if you think my idea makes any sense or not.

[@KentTagge]

@@starwarsmusicanalysis Thank you for your opinions! I have since re-watched some parts of the show that I was not quite clear on and I generally agree! I forgot that Mae never was actually a Sith due to the lack of her red blades and we have not gotten any cannon confirmation that she is one. Also, I agree with the theory that it was hid from the whole council and the rest of the Jedi. It seems highly likely that they would hid the information to avoid a mass panic.

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

@KentTagge I think we’re seeing the Jedi make one mistake after another. Sometimes, the solutions are obvious to us. Go to the high council and this whole thing gets resolved. But there is so mic bureaucracy that Venestra is done with that she goes around them. Thank you for your consideration. I know the show has flaws, but I think we’ve let certain KZbinrs push narratives on us that don’t exist. Now again, if Ki-Adi Mundi is in the last episode watching Qimir fight or Vernestra learns about him and reruns to the Jedi temple, than someone has some explain to do. But I’m sure this is all going to be thrown on Sol as a Jedi who lost his way.

[@ninvusoogoar6098]

@@starwarsmusicanalysis it deviated from the lore in many ways, one major one being how the jedi conduct themselves. this is not how the jedi act in lucas canon. remember acolyte is only a 100ish years before the prequels and jedi do NOT have the jurisdiction to go to non republic world to try and take children to train. they have zero business meddling with that cult of witches. mundi doesnt break the lore, but his injection into the show was purely memberberries and nostalgic key jingling. he served zero purpose and if you deleted him from the show it would change absolutely nothing. your also trying to use real world logic in a fantasy world where there are not jedi splinter groups (lucas canon doesnt have this crap) and the sith is an idea and those are hard to kill. the jedi order has been on guard for their possible return for a thousand years but the sith changed without the jedi knowing till it was too late. a random dark side user cannot kill a seasoned jedi master like that without them getting suspicious of it. if we were realistic in universe mae would have lost to the jedi master instantly but it was written so she could win.

[@captainbejo3513]

I like the show. I did not like TLJ or ROS. I am enjoying all the tv shows they are campy and what I want Star Wars to be. Remember when the prequels were thought of as trash and now they are the best Star Wars even over the OT? The vocal fandom of SW is trash IMHO they just hate because it’s “cool” to hate.

[@ninvusoogoar6098]

the difference is the prequels had merits to them while the sequels do not. the sequels have surface level gloss like pretty visuals and an okay musical score, but nothing deeper. and no, only an abject moron would assume anyone who is remotely vocal about the current state of star wars in a negative way does it purely because its cool too... people are starting to get sick and tired of the bad story telling, bad writing and characters in most of these shows. look its okay to like the acolyte regardless of it being a poorly written trash show. im happy people can find some enjoyment out of it despite its lack of quality. however, people need to grow up, mature and realize that the majority of the "hate" are people who are just fed up with the lack of quality and WANT to love disney star wars but cant because its mostly so trash. trying to devalue the criticism just comes off as cope to protect themselves from the criticism instead of understanding where people are coming from. remember toxic positivity is just as toxic as toxic negativity, its something a lot of people just havent grown up enough to understand sadly.

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

I think in 10 years, everyone will enjoy Acolyte because we’ll have all the comics and books to explain any plot holes people bring up. That’s what always happens.

[@mrvoltar]

At some level you'd like to think that Star Wars fans have a higher resistance to going darkside over attachments. Prequel hate was just as bad if not worse but my generation used the internet a little differently and the click-bait incentive wasn't really there to magnify it. It got so weird that Wookiepedia had an alternate history of awful fanfic as an alternative to canon.

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

I always think back to the Prequel hate and what it did to George. I have to wonder what kind of future this hate could be ruining. What brilliant writer is questioning whether they ever want to put a toe in these waters now? The click-bait thing is so annoying. I know I’d get more views, money, etc if I leaned on it. But it just feels so cringy to do. I don’t want to put that energy out into the world. I even hesitated to make this video for that reason. I just wish we could return to real conversations where we consider the other person’s points of view.

[@mrvoltar]

@@starwarsmusicanalysis You're doing what you can to encourage people to chill out which is more than most; so there's that. It's almost like Baylan had the right idea, wanting to stop the cycle.

[@ninvusoogoar6098]

alt history? you mean the EU/legends stuff? in case you are not educated in star wars pre prequels... in that several decades long gap before the prequels and after the OT there was the extended universe. the EU is what expanded star wars and kept it alive and well during those decades of nothing, if you never read any of them give the darth plagueis novel a read. the darth plagueis novel is from the sith's POV shortly before the prequels and is one of the best written stories if not THE BEST one in star wars novels. if you want the hate to stop then have disney/lucasfilm actually make good content instead of the trash they keep pumping out. id rather have star wars become an inactive brand for the next 30 years than to have another 12 years of disney star wars garbage like kenobi/acolyte being released every year or so. the "HATE" is really just frustration and anger at having star wars getting the CW script treatment where its somehow worse than hallmark channel movies they churn out every holiday.

[@mrvoltar]

@@ninvusoogoar6098 lol, no. I'm not talking about legends. I forget what they called it but it was ridiculous rewriting of the prequels. Jar Jar was an all-business war hero character...it was that kind of stuff. Yeah, Luceno's one of my favorite writers of both canon and legends. I'm not sure how anything I said necessitated cramming him down my throat like that though.

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

@ninvusoogoar6098 ok. This is not worse than hallmark movies. I’ve had to sit through so many of those with my mother in law and it’s not worse than those. I can’t take you seriously if you actually believe that. 😂 I’ve read the prequel books. I grew up with them. They’re great. I live the Plagieus novel especially. But I also have to accept that none of that lore technically exists in canon no matter how we try to spin it. When George sold Star Wars, those materials that he didn’t create (and the holiday special if you want to actually talk about garbage) were understood to not be part of canon. This has been the case for 10 years and everyone knows this by now. It doesn’t mean those materials aren’t awesome, often times before than the current shows, yes. But they aren’t canon and nothing canon will ever have to fit their narratives.

[@myRoxas]

I would say that his music is one of the few saving grace of the show. His talent seems wasted on this dumpster fire.

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

Abels did overall do a good job. What is your biggest complaint of the show?

[@guest0046]

People clearly have pointed out all the trash in the Acolyte. Secondly, not everyones first language is english, so you invalidating peoples opinions cause they have grammar problems is pretty cringey. The show have 15% on rotten tomatoes. That speaks volume.

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

Say cringy all you want but this is just sloppy writing in comments about sloppy writing. I know poor writing skills from non-English speakers as someone who has plenty of experience with both. And people have pointed things out that they want to be trash but most of it is built on assumptions. But I’d love to hear what you have to offer to the conversation.

[@EngineeredTheMind]

Not sure why anyone can't see how generic the score is with this show, embarrassing to put this forward as Star Wars

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

It’s both adaptive and nostalgic. I’m annoyed at how themes are attributed and I think that makes it harder to attach to. Generic perhaps on the sense that it sounds like a film score. But then what’s an example of a non-generic score? It’s absolutely unique in the Star Wars universe.

[@reimagineuniverse]

There is no way this thing cost 180. Sets looks so cheap and small, the costumes and make up are like bad halloween costume. Acting was also dreadful beside Sol and Qimir sometimes. Writing was below mediocre

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

Sol and Qimir were certainly stronger than other characters. I don’t know what was so terrible about the costumes though. Can you help me with an example?

[@ormapa1206]

I'm really liking the show. My only complain is that I wish they writers did a more collaborative job so the writing could've been even more better because it is clear that the show was structured with two episodes each for a group of different people.

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

Yeah. I don’t know how much of it is the writing versus the directing styles but there certainly is a little inconsistency between section of the season. That’s not entirely abnormal though.

[@christianbeach8975]

I honestly really like the shows writing and most of the acting butII think the structure of the show has been a little confusing. Not to mention i think the show should've dropped all at once to binge watch it and have more fresh info on hand while watching

[@ninvusoogoar6098]

what about the writing is even remotely good for you? id love if someone can actually articulate why the writing is good. its good people like the show regardless of its poor quality but its okay to like something and still be honest and admit its bad... i do it all the time with the sharknado movies, love those movies! but i wont lie to you and try to claim they are good movies when they are objectively not

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

I think we’ve been spoiled with binge dropping shows. I like the weekly tease and making us wait for it like shows used to be. It gives people a chance to speculate and talk about the show. But yeah, the pacing/character development was the weakest point for me as well.

[@christianbeach8975]

@@starwarsmusicanalysis I totally agree with you on the pacing. give time to let things cook. I wish the episodes were longer to fix the pacing problem. That being said do you think you would've enjoyed the show more if they dropped all episodes at once?

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

@christianbeach8975 it’s hard to say. I probably would have ok some ways because there wouldn’t have been questions as much about character motivations. But I wouldn’t have appreciated what they were holding back on and it would have felt more jumbled probably. Having a week to let things steep is nice in my opinion. Helps me appreciate having each episode far more.

[@dmontalvo1983]

Hate? Really?? Backlash, absolutely. Star Wars fans are very passionate about the content. Stick to the story, stick to canon, tell a Star Wars story! Not this BS…

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

So what about it, in your opinion, makes it “BS” instead of a Star Wars story?

[@StarshipYorktown]

Nothing wrong with the music, but the show is terrible. Why is it terrible? I boil it down to bad writing and bad direction. The actors are fine, but they are given very little to work with. I would rather give my time to a well-crafted show like "Andor" then waste it on a show like "The Acolyte".

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

I mean, obviously it’s not as good as Andor. But that’s a really high bar. Every Star Wars movie isn’t terrible because it isn’t ESB. What happened to middle ground? I’d say the show is decent. There have been worse shows for sure. There is bad directing, but this is not new at all to Star Wars. Not new at all.

[@Ty_Colis]

Did he compose that garbage hip hop you hear at the end of the trash episodes

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

He did not. Also, there is no hip hop at the end of episode 7. That’s more in the vein of pop music. And now you know!

[@0Boogiee0]

A "very heightened group of people" Non Political Woke Translation: "90% of the fanbase".

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

Definitely not 90% in a realistic setting. Let’s be realistic, not narrow minded to the forums we live in online. And I don’t know what all this woke nonsense has been about with this show. I didn’t feel like I was being fed someone’s agenda at all in this show. I kept waiting for it, but no.

[@eddielog8348]

Its simple, you just don't understand Star Wars bro. There is a lot that is so wrong, and twisted from what George Lucas brought us with passion. It looks silly to you maybe, but that's just because you don't understand the bigger picture here. On top of that, this show, the Acolyte, it's a clear big woke agenda that is been force to us, therefore ignoring what is truly important, a good story withing the already existing universe that George already stablish. It doesn't mean not to bring new stuff or material, on the contrary we welcome it, but don't fucking piss on the foundation, much less disrespect it. And this not just happened with Star Wars, but with many other great franchises. Also, I watch every episode of the Acolyte, so it's not like I'm talking shit without even seeing the materials, and you know what, its disgusting, everything is just so bad, the only thing that I really like was the lightsaber fights against Smilo Ren, that was great for me, Smilo Ren guy is a great actor, same as most in the show, but that's just it, the rest in the writing in general, is just bad. PS. The age thing about Amundi, for us fans is not really a big deal in the end, the issue is how in all of his involvement is breaking an important piece of cannon...Like its pissing on the foundation like I said. Plus many other things that the director of the Acolyte is just pissing on in general. The Backlash for the Acolyte it is well deserved.

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

I don’t understand Star Wars? What is so woke about this show? Every time I ask this question, no one gives a response. Acolyte works within the universe that George created. If you want to claim it doesn’t, I’d love to hear something to back that up if you don’t mind. What about Ki-Adi Mundi’s involvement ruins anything. There have been no Sith sightings for 900 years and then some random person shows up and kills some Jedi with daggers and he’s supposed to immediately assume it’s a Sith from sitting in on one meeting? That makes no sense and it requires you to make assumptions and fill in gaps of the narrative before they’re told. You state twice that it pisses on the foundation but offer no supporting evidence. Would you mind offering some?

[@eddielog8348]

@@starwarsmusicanalysis gladly. give me a definition of what woke is. What is that doesnt go well withing the foundation, let's start with the force concept, you tell me, is it not already being change by the writer and how it work fundamentaly? The director even said so. She has her own definition of how the force works. THATS no. 1 foundation that is already been pissed on. One of, if not the most important thing. How the jedi behave in general, is already terrible on how it should be especially jedi masters like wtf. I do get that maybe some jedi padawan or jedi knight here and there might behave confuse. but here is like most...not composed for the majority of time, and emotional its just not how jedi are fudamentaly. Next, jedi dying in a big group, are the high council not powerful enough to sense something? Ki-Adi Mundi suspect of something in that meeting no? he even show face. More reason for him to sense something no? How master Sol not sense the swap between the sister, and not even tell that she is not Osha if not by the ''tracker''. Master Jedi at that. But you know what lets give the benefit of doubt, he is confuse emotional and whatever. Ki Adi clearly knows something is off, in the prequel he is like nothing happened. Are these not foundation breakers my friend? Osha and Mae created by the force....That is what Anakin ONLY is. And by a SITH LORD. Hence the chosen one and the prophesy etc etc. Did I back enough? 😊

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

@eddielog8348 The force has not been changed. That was a silly conclusion that people jumped to. Instead, we’ve seen another force group that have their own belief of what the force is. We see this with religion all the time. Different denominations that believe variants of the same thing, including how they interpret scripture. The force from the Jedi’s view is still the same though. So, no. Nothing was actually changed there. You just saw another group’s point of view about something that is overall mysterious in a massive universe. We’ve seen Jedi before who don’t actually the way that they should. But here, we see a Padawan that acts rashly which is normal. Padawans are still being taught calm and control. And then we see Sol, act out in anxt and then attempt to protect himself. Jedi are still people. The idea that they can all be perfect all the time has never been reality. Otherwise, we would not have the fallen Jedi or Sith like Anakin and Dooku. To say that thousands of Jedi don’t act that way may be true in general. But there will always be bad apples and this show was designed to focus on a specific situation where this was the case. That’s all. The Jedi dying as a big group is an interesting one. This is the first time I’ve heard this concern but I suppose they maybe should have. I don’t exactly know how sensing people through the force works though. So I struggle to say this ruins anything foundational. But I do see your point. The Sith have not been around (publicly) for 900 years. Ki-Adi Mundi is in a meeting where an assassin killed two Jedi using daggers and then a poison. To me, it seems like a stretch to assume he would consider this to be the Sith. Does he think something is wrong? Yes. But he also assumes Vernestra is handling it. His perspective is very different from ours where we see Sith all the time and no what it leads to. Imagine not having heard of something for 900 years and then there’s just a girl with daggers. (No crimson blade) Sol did know it was a switch. Keep watching the show. You’re making a flawed assumption until you’ve seen past episode 5. He’s toying with her to get answers. I know the Osha and Mae creation dilutes Anakin’s creation but I think they’re leading to this being where Plagieus learns how to manipulate life. And it’s not out of nowhere. They seem to have been creating using a Vergence. I believe this will be explored more in season 2. Make sure to watch the entire season. Many of your concerns are being answered as the show goes on. Let me know what you think once you do.

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

And I’m not going to give you a definition of woke. You used the term. You should know what it means. Use that definition to answer what is so woke about the show.

[@eddielog8348]

​@@starwarsmusicanalysis Its not that i dont know, I'm purposely asking you, so you can tell me after answering if you still think there is no woke in this show. The pronouns things mentioned....dont bring that shit to Star Wars man. So ridiculous. It is obvious there are pushing a lot about the LGBT thing to Star Wars as well. We dont care, thats not for Star wars. You are gay, lesbian, non-binary(this also mention in the series at some point by Osha) or whatever fine, great thats your thing, We dont give a F about it, dont make it a thing to be notice in the Star Wars universe, in here its not a thing we care to see or worse to be a Star Wars thing. Why are we seeing sexual tension scenes in Star Wars???? (For me this is not a woke thing...I hope) Too much shirtless scenes lmao, Now thats weird. And the guy naked in front of Osha and Osha watching his... lmao geez At some point i think i heard somewhere in an interview of the director saying something about Star Wars not having enough diversity or female leading characters it was her or Katheleen, I dont remember, but either way ....like the F ? Watch the originals and the prequels for a refresher lol. And to my point on this. Star Wars was always a FAMILY AUDIENCE franchise, or at least from the originals and prequels and the animated series. Dont bring wokeness ideology into shows like Star Wars were there are kids watching. Dont put it on Star Wars period, if you want so badly to do it then, make your version of Star Wars with a more mature audience rating and leave it out of Star Wars original universe, make it like a multiverse thing different universe or whatever. And I want to make one thing clear, it has nothing to do with being homophobic or anti LGBT or any of that, I dont care what your identity stand, thats an individual thing . I think i cover mostly all of the Wokeness In Star Wars Acolyte I think.

[@PassportAdam]

Deflect, shame, insult. Classic technique. Get lost

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

I don’t think I did anything of those things. Do you want to have a real conversation?

[@aiden9586]

Really enjoying the show and his score definitely.

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

Me too. Abels has surprised me for the most part.

[@eyerony3554]

So, plainly put, I'm not a fan of Star Wars. And I personally think this show is trash. I watched it with my S/O who is a big fan and we were both disappointed. That being said, I'll lay out my issues without personal attacks. First and foremost to me is the inherent laziness of both the script, the plot, and the writing in general. I'm not so dense as to not realize that all creative endeavors will contain a bit of their creator in them. There's nothing wrong with that. Everything has a theme and a message. That's inherent to art itself. That being said, its the job of the author, or writer, to use the medium to tell a story that has enough universal humanistic elements to be compelling. Simply put, a story told well can assert almost any view. But the creators of this show seem so deadset on pushing a message that they threw out a bunch of basics of storytelling. Growth and arcs of characters are, thus far, almost non-existent. There's no struggle. All conflicts of ideals peter out like a lazy fart. I don't mind if you have a viewpoint and wish to explore it in a medium. I do mind when the exploration is done with the subtlety of a brick to the face. The hand of the author can be seen plainly, with characters often doing nonsensical acts counter to their character solely based on need at the time. I don't have a dog in this fight. Like I said, I'm not a fan of Star Wars, but I understand totally why people who are big fans are mad. It rankles me at some of the changes. Yes, in a vacuum, a lot don't matter. Yes, the franchise is owned by Disney and its not uncommon to retcon something once you look back with the power of hindsight. But, at least to someone like me who is outside looking in, it reeks of laziness. The fire in space? The burning mountain fortress? The desire of Osha to be a Jedi for...reasons? The nonsensical back and forth oversight of preestablished rules (drawing a light saber means they must kill...despite a long history of Jedi using it for many tasks, the string can't be harnessed to be a weapon yet it is in the same scene). All of this speaks of a passion project in where the motivation was something other than love of the franchise. And it does make me sad, to a degree. I feel the major emotion from this series is one of fear. For all the "brave steps" the creators took, its obvious they stayed their hands on deeper subjects. It's like they were too scared to delve any deeper than a surface scratch. Show us truly deplorable conditions of the coven. Let us empathize with the characters. Let us feel how these creations of the essence of life itself are stifled and squirreled away, yearning to be free. Then take it away in dramatic fashion. Make us care. Make us wish for better things. Instead, all I feel for this franchise is meh.

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

This is such a well crafted argument. Thank you! Yes, there were time when the script and dialogue were clunky or character choices changed too suddenly. That was my biggest gripe throughout the show. The fire in space I assumed was because of the air being released. It’s not the first time there was a ship on fire in space in Star Wars either. But it also wasn’t necessary here. I assumed the fortress burned due to the fire running through the electrical. Probably safe to conclude that proper wiring was skipped and gfci outlets weren’t used. Keep in mind that this is a new era for Jedi teachings and it’s during a time of peace. It makes perfect sense that Jedi would be taught to not escalate conflicts by drawing their weapon unless they need to. This has actually been referenced in novels for a while as well. I think the coven were a means to an end which is to introduce further ideas. They weren’t intended to be someone we needed to empathize overly with to move through the story. These are just my thoughts but I love seeing how people can have such different perspectives of the same show.

[@Sir.Black.]

It's no about Adi-Mundi's age or anything you talked about, and if you have seen the show and felt no problem with it then I'll translate the issue in a language you may be more familiar with: It's like making a movie of Captain America but this time he's a lier, a kidnaper, he works alone, doesn't have control of his emotions, etc., practically portrayed as the bad guy... Does it break canon? For you it seems not.

[@RedCaio]

The point of this show is to show how a few imperfect jedi messed up and caused the senate to put the Jedi under their leash and be beholden to the government, losing their neutrality/autonomy. Basically it answers the question of how did the Jedi order get to the point we see them in the prequels - hands tied by rules, doing the senate's bidding, even fighting as generals in the clone wars? so it's not really changing the Jedi int sort sort of villain like you seem to think.

[@Sir.Black.]

@@RedCaio A few?? We're talking about 30 of them at this point... Also, can yo be so hypocrite to be one of the only ones remaining to know about the existence of a Sith and then be the one saying there isn't a one in a 1,000 years in front of the council? Even if that's part of the plot, at least Yoda would have sense the lie... Also, you're just assuming that we don't know if that's the plot, but in theory that's a good plot, on the other hand that's not what they are portraying at all!

[@ninvusoogoar6098]

@@RedCaio a cool concept... but what a lot of the dumb people who defend this show seem to somehow not notice is one very important and critical thing... THE EXECUTION!!! if you poorly execute a cool/interesting idea then you fucked up. they changed how the jedi act and conduct themselves to push a narrative in trying to show the jedi as flawed but they failed to show it correctly in a way that actually lines up with how its done in the prequels... and thus is breaks lore... think of it like this if your able... why didnt vader just rip the falcon out of the air in the hoth hanger before it flew out like he did to the shuttle in kenobi? well thats because the people making kenobi didnt give a fuck about logical lore consistency in the greater story and they just focus on "their story" to put "their own stamp" onto the franchise. in that vader example it shows him to be extremely powerful enough to force a ship out of the air then effortlessly rip it apart into chunks, yet when we see him years later on hoth he doesnt do it. when you add something after the fact you need to be mindful of shit like this.

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

When you have a massive universe, there will always be small inconsistencies in what’s possible? Who knows why Vader didn’t rip down the Falcon there or in the DS1 hanger. But he didn’t. But Kenobi certainly had its stumblings no matter what. Here to talk Acolyte.

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

Not enjoying your condescending tone. And we are talking 30 Jedi. Most of them are dead anyways. But yeah. As far as the Jedi know, the Sith have been gone for 900 years in Acolyte. One person without even having a red lightsaber is not going to make them think the Sith are back. There are plenty of other “bad guys” in the universe. The show is depicting the flaws of the Jedi. It’s demonstrating that many small mistakes over many many years lead to their downfall, not just Palpatine’s plan in a vacuum. It’s what the Sith were waiting for.

[@Thomas-gx3ti]

To be honest, I sadly found the music of The Acolyte absolutely forgettable - I couldn't hum you a single theme from it to save my life. The only musical moment that I do remember was more of a directing & editing choice. When Osha and Mae have their confrontation in the forest (I think ending of Ep5) there is a dramatic swell of music as they approach each other. Then a cut to an establishing shot of the forest and a sunrise. And HERE THE MUSIC goes into a kind of friendly, tingly "ah, the magical forest!" cue. This to me, along with the view of the forest, heavily implies: either a scene change is coming, or a time jump. Or SOMETHING. But no. We cut straight back to the exact same shot in the exact same scene. Completely confused and confusing...

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

I thought you were going to say the Kylo Ren theme. Look, I do have some issues with the music. I didn’t entirely get into how Abels attributed themes to characters, which is why you’re struggling to remember them. But it was a solid score that did a really difficult job well of resembling Williams while also being unique and blending several genres. And I know you remember the power of many music. But for all the wrong reasons. Haha. It was the low point for me.

[@Thomas-gx3ti]

@@starwarsmusicanalysis Ha! The power of many, you are right of course! (To be honest, yes it was a bit cringe, but actually I didn't mind it thaaat much !) I was talking about the non-diegetic music. I'm not saying it was BAD... Just ... Forgettable. And employed by the editors too much as a cheap and sometimes inappropriate shortcut to try and evoke emotional responses in the audience. Need to convey the tragedy of the situation? Let's have that character we barely know stare into emptiness and cue a sentimental theme. Oh, is that a weird rodent creature (that is supposed to be cute or something, I guess?) this is where we played the quaint mischievous sneaky music straight out of harry potter. ... It just felt so empty. As if they knew "this stuff is hardly emotionally impactful, let's make up for it with music that reminds people of Better and more emotional films and make them remember"oh yeah I am supposed to feel so and so At this point "

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

@Thomas-gx3ti that feels less about the music then and more about not developing the characters enough.

[@Thomas-gx3ti]

@@starwarsmusicanalysis oh absolutely! That's why I don't blame the composer OF the music but rather HOW the music was used:)

[@desi8761]

this show sucked. broke canon in many ways, it was clear the people who made this show had little to no understanding of star wars or just had insane ego issues and wanted to purposefully fuck with star wars lore. osha and mae were very weak characters, poorly acted, and their existence also broke canon. the only thing i liked were the light saber duels. other than that, an embarrassment to star wars as a whole. If they do make a season 2 i hope they kick leslye headland the fuck out and get someone competent in there who actually lives and breathes star wars to do it. overall 3/10, just because i like light saber duels. I agree star wars can use more strong, interesting female characters who are bad ass, but this show just wasn't it.

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

I don’t think the existence of Osha and Mae breaks lore in any way. Does it take from the amazement of Anakin’s creation some? Maybe. But we also still don’t know exactly how they were created and I believe from what we’ve seen that we’re going to eventually see that this is going to be the source from where Plagieus learns how to manipulate life. I mean he had to learn it from somewhere, didn’t he? Why do we assume that Anakin was the only one this happened to just because the Jedi are so surprised by it in TPM? Yeah. Amandla Steinberg’s performance felt sub par for me. I will say though that watching the finale felt like watching a different actor and I really think it was poor directing during the first half of the show by different directors.

[@desi8761]

@@starwarsmusicanalysis And I believe their existence does. Anakin being the chosen one is the major basis of the star wars franchise as a whole and every show/movie up until this point has corroborated with that. We do know how she was created, Master Sol not only explains it in the finale (as well as other jedi who also confirm this), but the witch mothers also say it themselves in the earlier episodes. Just because Leslye Headland back tracks in the interview in the Nerdist doesnt validate her claims based on the evidence in the show. Now with that said I am actually open to the idea with the direction of where the show was going, and the idea of providing some background on Plagueis learning how to manipulate the force to create life is an interesting topic to explore and dig into. However, the acting, the writing, the direction, the thought, the understanding, and the execution as a whole was so poor I was suprised Leslye was given the green light to even touch such major tropes within the franchise. Just not star wars quality period. You are entitled to your opinion, but to me and the majority of long time fans of star wars, we were very disappointed.

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

@desi8761 This doesn’t change Anakin being the chosen one. And it wasn’t a major basis at all until George invented it during the prequels. Anakin wasn’t even Vader when A New Hope was written. Sol literally says “I don’t know exactly how, but”. So even now, we don’t know exactly what happened. I actually think someone was sacrificed into the vergence and split in two. But that’s probably not it. It’s my belief that Plagieus now uses this occurrence to learn how to manipulate the force and thus creates Anakin. He’s been after Mae and Osha this entire time for that reason. Because at the end of the day, he had to be able to learn these abilities somewhere since the Sith before him couldn’t do it. But Mae and Osha being one person in two forms is a very different thing unto itself. I do hope that the actors get a little more direction and coaching before and during season 2. Because let’s be honest, there will be another season after that. But it didn’t kill it for me like it did some people.

[@desi8761]

@@starwarsmusicanalysis 😂 you are grasping at straws trying to make sense of it all. Im glad you enjoyed the show, but its severely flawed in my and many other's opinions. Enjoy season 2 :)

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

I hope to enjoy season 2. And I’m not grasping at straws. These things have all been plainly laid out.

[@canadianfreedomright]

What are you smoking...the writing, acting, logic, timelines are awful...it's not a 14%(RT), but 30% for sure

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

I also have problems with the writing and acting on some level. I’d love to hear your concerns with the logic and timeline aspects though if you don’t mind.

[@hidecki]

really bad take

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

I disagree

[@ActionRan]

If I would bet (as I said in another reply to you) you maybe like the show for other reasons it's DEI and LBGT+ agenda, but I doubt it. I think you are defending this mostly for the LBGT+ and DEI reasons, cause the show, is, really bad) The show is clearly failing, evident by its cancellation. Non-Star Wars fans won't watch it, and many Star Wars enthusiasts who tried it didn't enjoy it. If the show had been successful and well-received, it would have garnered positive feedback. You mention people being upset because it doesn't fit their "head canon," but the real issue is that they're altering the Star Wars vibe, changing canon from the films, and injecting agendas that most Star Wars fans don't support. Essentially, it feels like their fan fiction of Star Wars, poorly executed. When fans voice their concerns, they're dismissed as haters or worse, which is unfair. I don't understand why you're defending this. There are countless comments outlining what's wrong with the show. Personally, I find it amusing that people are so passionate about Star Wars being mishandled. It's not canon Star Wars; it's essentially fan fiction by individuals more interested in pushing their own agendas than honoring the franchise.

[@starwarsmusicanalysis]

How would you feel if I insinuated that the only reason you don’t like this show is because you’re a racist homophobe? (I’m not by the way)That’s the simple reverse of what you just did and it’s exactly the kind of comment that I was talking about? It makes a false assumption about my character that isn’t based on anything factual. It’s lazy because instead of engage in dialogue or allow us to have differing opinions that we’re just going to have eventually go our separate ways with, you assign a label to me that makes it easy for you to easily disregard every opinion I have instead of consciously considering them. The show wasn’t cancelled. It ran for its entire season. A second hasn’t been confirmed or denied to the best of my knowledge at the time of me writing this so there’s another false assumption on your part. No canon from the films has been changed. Feel free to argue your points but I’ve heard it all and I’ll be happy to give my rebuttal that clearly refutes this claim. And what agendas are you referring to? I’m not defending Acolyte. Clearly. I happily say in my video that the show has issues and is not perfect. The pacing was weird at times. Characters make decisions that feel unconvincing. Some of the dialogue is portly delivered. That’s all there and I can’t disagree. I’m not hiding from it. I’m not defending it. But it’s wasn’t so much to say that this show was complete trash, garbage, ruins Star Wars, and so on. These issues are rampant even during the Lucas era and yet here we are, still Star Wars fans. It’s an overcompensation and in a couple years, nobody will care any more, just like with the prequels. Because many of the complaints are superficial, just like the prequels. This is my opinion only though. The comments you refer to, like yours, are often steeped in flaws and blind assumptions such as what I pointed out above. Feel free to try this again with more coherent and specific points to discuss. And feel free not to misrepresent me again.