Acoustic VS Digital Sound Comparison: SK-7 vs NV10S | Digitalpiano.com

[@DanielPMBA]

Having owned an SK, I can definitely hear the difference between the two. There's a lot of reason to own a NV10S over the SK7. The most obvious it price difference which is huge. You can buy a Tesla instead of a piano. And while I owned an SK, and I had the chance to play a Steinway or others, I felt in love with the other ones too but it's not possible to afford multiple grands in a house. What can we do? Ultimately, it's using something like a NV10S playing Kontakt Piano plugins that simulates other pianos. So now, you can play all your songs and enjoy the sounds of difference Grands: Japan, German, Austrian, and other European Grands. I think that gives me most pleasures.

[@Vinzenz_piano]

But when you want to play always over the Kontakt plugin, you need always connect (via midi) a laptop with the Software right? So you need always a external gadget connected with the piano.

[@DanielPMBA]

@@Vinzenz_piano As I said already, buy SK7 is fine if u have the money. There's always trade-off. You buy SK7 u r limited to one sound. You buy NV10 u have more things to plug into to give u more sound.

[@Vinzenz_piano]

@@DanielPMBA But the NV 10s has no kontakt plugin included right? I wish they had and you could download more VSTs like steinway and so on directly. Maybe they will do in next generation.

[@DanielPMBA]

@@Vinzenz_piano They will never include it. And you can use plugins like Ivory II Studio Grand without Kontakt or Pianotek 7 also. Those are standalone and in my opinion best acoustic modeling/sampling than most on Kontakt.

[@DavidIzquierdoAzzouz]

Do you use the internal speakers of the NV10s to listen to the VST's? How do they sound? I've never liked the way they sound through the onboard speakers of my CA97, thanks

[@MrGadaga]

Thanks a lot. Please compare with the Novus NV10 also via microphone. That's much more interesting than comparing it to the line out!!

[@James-cn9no]

Of course you can't replicate the full openness and resonating feedback of an actual acoustic piano...but wow! the sampling in the NV10S is so very close in overall timbre. And you can't turn down the SK or use headphones, or get back the space it occupies, not to mention the $$$,$$$ required to obtain it. And thank you for the direct A/B comparisons. So many channels play a full piece, then talk, then play the piece on the other instrument. The direct A/B is the best way to compare. Thanks for that.

[@eamonnmorris5331]

I have not played either instrument (I am quite happy with my NU1, through headphones, in my apartment.) However as one who has played and studied/taught piano for over 60 years by now, I am impressed with the digital here, and respectfully disagree that the acoustic 'slams' it in any significant way, shape or form. Maybe in a solo recital in a concert hall that might be the case but for most the purposes, based on this interesting video, I would say they are practically indistinguishable.

[@JoeLinux2000]

I'm a huge fan of high quality digital pianos. Their versatility is unmatched.

[@stenaldomehilli8809]

To me, It's easily distinguishable from an acoustic grand as the audio here shows; but you're right when you say it does the job pretty well. No doubt, the market offers even better piano replications. Nord for example, because of what happens when you release the keys and due to the capturing of a splendid body reverberation might confuse someone even further. Same goes for a few world class VSTs. But this digital version of Kawai is one of the best digital pianos in terms of sound out there, much better than previous versions manufactured by the company. In some ways it does better than every other products currently available.

[@Zoco101]

Eamonn Morris: I'm with you on this. A lot of acoustic pianos are excessively noisy and rattly for enjoyable practice and for intimate recitals. Nobody complained before because there wasn't any choice. Maybe the SK-7 sounds better overall (for now) but we don't need to emulate the more negative aspects of a piano technology which has improved very little in 100 years. This is why I keep saying that the ultimate goal of digital piano technology should be to sound as good or better than acoustic pianos, and not to sound exactly the same. I notice that the cheapest of the uprights are disappearing. They can't con the public anymore. It reminds me of the Gilbert and Sullivan song which goes: "You told me you were beautiful... and now I find you're plain and old..." Our eyes and ears are being opened. The first thing we should shed is this loaded expression "real piano".

[@jpdj2715]

I'm totally with you, Eamonn. This comparison was done fine and fair, but still there is a problem. The SK-7 is in what seems like a small room and how it comes across depends a lot on microphone placement. Having the microphones "inside" the piano records its action and damper noise, does not give the integrated balance across the "board". Having microphones outside the piano records the room and its reflections more. And this is what bugs the sampling that goes into digital pianos too. (Note here that so-called 100% modeling pianos start with sampling and microphone placement too.) Some virtual piano "instruments" have microphone placement options that let you choose between inside, player, concert listener positions or maybe combinations of these. Between those options, the sound of the "instrument" changes a lot. For headphone fans listening critically, you would want additional "headphone" options, even, where the samples got recorded via an artificial head (that places the microphones in the ear canals of that artificial head). If this NV10S were placed into a concert hall, then it might underwhelm when that hall is too big. But the SK-7 not being a 9 might underwhelm too. And, playing intimate Chopin on a real 9 or D to more than 1,000 concert goers removes so much intimacy that it can never be really good - you really want that music in a rather small concert hall on a smaller piano than a "D". I saw this Chinese language YT video of a shop testing if players could detect if a piano was digital or acoustic. These were all upright. Blindfolded Chinese/Asian ladies (women are smaller than men on average and consequently have higher frequency range hearing) time and again picked the "digital" pianos out, except the Kawai NV5. Why? Because of the way the digital pianos reproduced through the speakers and provided an unnatural "soundstage" to these players. It was not about the basic sound characteristics ("wave shapes") themselves but the spatial clues. And here we are listening to KZbin videos through MP3 (lossy compression) even, assuming we can make judgments about the differences. Listening to the video on a desktop computer, I cannot hear the difference when I do not see the video, e.g. because I am reading comments and writing a comment myself, in the meantime.

[@eamonnmorris5331]

@@jpdj2715 Thank you for your very detailed reply. You clearly have a better grasp than I do of technical aspects of sound production, and I do appreciate that. However, I will explain my meaning in somewhat 'baser' terms: I like to drink beer. I once read that most beer drinkers, even those firmly committed to their 'favorite beer', cannot identify their favorite out of a selection of beers on a 'blind taste test'. I sense that much the same is true of pianos. Most experienced acoustic piano devotees will probably say, like the one in the comment I reference above, that it's EASY to tell the difference. While I do not deny there IS a difference, I do not agree the two are easily distinguishable. A good quality digital, like the Yamaha NU1 and probably the SK-7 (which I have not played) provides an amazing approximation of the 'real thing', especially through headphones. The main differences I notice are with the slightly artificial feel of the damper pedal and the length of the 'sustain.'

[@alextryan]

Interesting video. The acoustic slams the digital on sound, but I have to pause and wonder how to interpret what I'm hearing. If the line out was going through headphones it would be a different experience. If you were playing the speakers on the Novus and recording that through mics, it would be a completely different experience (and I would have enjoyed hearing that against the grand). (Also check some of your trills in the chopin piece -- i think you're a half step low.)

[@eleezemckenna6787]

I think I'd like to disagree on the "acoustic slamming the digital" because he did say he was using mics on the acoustic and the volume on the digital seemed to not be turned up to match the output of the acoustic. I did however here a thinner metallic sound in the mid and higher registers. I think a person such as myself who a: does not have the room for a concert grand and b: most certainly do not have the budget for a concert grand could find great satisfaction and equivalent joy and pleasure from the NV10s. I have it programed in my mind to be ready financially to purchase the NV10s in December 2022. I've owned an acoustic simi-concert grand and know the joys, pleasure and disappointments of the acoustic life. For one limited time when one can play if living in an apartment.

[@alextryan]

@@eleezemckenna6787 No argument there -- I'm buying one too (if it ever ships!). I've been playing on a decent Roland keyboard past few months, then went home to play my Kawai grand. I was ill-equipped to negotiate the mechanics of the real grand action and it really impressed me that, if you want to tune your playing to perform on a grand, practicing on a digital will hold you back. As for sound, I don't care much, and being able to turn it down or use headphones is both good for your neighbors AND reduces ear fatigue. As to sound -- there's a NV10 video of a dude playing in a huge concert hall, mic'd with PZMs, and it sounds AMAZING. So... all in the acoustics I guess.

[@eleezemckenna6787]

@@alextryan do you have a link for for the video of the concert hall performance

[@alextryan]

@@eleezemckenna6787 kzbin.info/www/bejne/kJvLcoSZeb2El6s

[@alextryan]

@@eleezemckenna6787 chances are i'll do a big review of the piano. they're fun to make.

[@markfowlermusic]

Wrong information as they don't share the same key action, nv10s has a key action that's more like the GL-10 or GX series. You're comparing a £60,000 piano to a £9000 piano here, they certainly don't compare in any aspects.

[@Zoco101]

This video came out three years ago, I predicted then that the market for cheap uprights will collapse. I was more than right. Now we are seeing secondhand intermediate/superior quality acoustic pianos selling in many countries at knockdown prices. In many cases these will be a better buy than a new top notch digital hybrid (which will itself will devalue in turn) assuming that the buyer has an adequate place to house the acoustic piano and can play it a lot without requiring headphones.

[@ShaneyElderberry]

It’s also possible to record the performance of the speakers in the room (two mics for stereo) + the outputs with mixing in an audio interface. Some people have recorded in this way for the Casio GP 510, but haven’t found that with the Kawai NV10S. In this video, the sounds would be different anyway, since the samples were made in a different space.

[@mysticsailor9]

From your introductory comments, it is clear there is quite an amount of ambient reverb in your location. I suspect that if you changed the reverb/ambience on the NV10 to match the results would be even closer than the outstanding results I heard.

[@samwang5831]

I closed my eyes and I could tell when the piano was switched. I like SK7 a lot more.

[@davidhamtaro]

Thanks for the video. The NV10 lacks the depth and harmonics of the SK. However considering the price, the Nv10 is very good.

[@debankur007]

Very good comparison.

[@Digitalpianocom]

Thank you 👍🏻🎹❤️

[@rongyin9280]

what're the names of these 3 piceses? I would like to learn them.

[@kram21]

WOW! NV is awesome esp for a digital kb-would gladly have one!!

[@triplea657aaa]

While the acoustic definitely sounds better imo, it's a pretty small difference and I think I'll go for the NV10S for the price difference.

[@kram21]

awesome piano playing by the way

[@waltervanderboor]

We only have space for the digital in our boat, but what a great sound. makes me doubt whether in a house its worth the extra. In a concert? different story.

[@robertosergi2516]

although great steps have been made in digital, the acoustic piano always has something more.

[@gideonzweijtzer5157]

Yes... Angry neighbors for example.

[@Zoco101]

I have to say that the sound was closer than I expected. Remember that this was line-out. We didn't get to hear the cabinet resonance or room resonance on the NV-10S recording so it had to be a less complex sound than it would have been. Whether using mics would really improve over line-out, I don't know, but the NV10S deserved the opportunity to maybe shine more. And it would be interesting to hear the SK7 with less room ambience. We shouldn't view acoustic pianos as perfect and therefore unimproveable. Accordingly, the SK-7 as we know it, might be whipped by a future NV piano. While the actions are the same, the prices are vastly different in this comparative review. We should also compare the NV10S against something like the Kawai GL30 (circa €16K) because this is a more typical acoustic option for those who are interested in the NV10S.

[@Zoco101]

@@gideonzweijtzer5157 lol. You have a point, but I think the SK-7, and the NV10S too, are designed more for performance than practice. Anyone who can justify the purchase of either of these pianos, just for home use, probably has lots of practice options anyway. The NV5S is a more obvious choice as a single home piano to practise on.

[@misstangshan95]

The Novus and Ca79/99 can really put out a realistic sound when you go in and edit the parameters in virtual technician etc. It sounds like this is recorded with default sk-ex

[@gideonzweijtzer5157]

@@Zoco101 Agreed. I am perfectly happy with my CA59 for practice. A bit less satisfied with the speaker sound tho. Might be the acoustics of the room the piano is in, maybe. But I'd need to set it to brilliance mode for it to sound less dull. Headphone sound is just perfect!

[@emaldonadog]

For sure, I only can feel the diference because I'm hearding the two pianos in same video. But the acoustic sound is so complet, so round, so big... It's clearly another thing.

[@Zoco101]

There is more damper effect and noise on the SK-7, but that can be tweaked on the hybrid piano. I agree with someone who said that we should also hear the hybrid playing its own speakers - not just through line out

[@MetaView7]

There is no possible comparison. You can duplicate the "sound" on your youtube speaker, but you cannot duplicate the "feel" at the actual location. The strings, especially the bass strings, vibrate the air around you. They move, not just your ear drums, but your whole body. No digital piano has been able to do that yet. (the Kawai with the digital sound board could mimic the effect a bit, but it is still a long way to truely able fool a blind test).

[@Хотятлирусскиевойны-н2г]

Пиликаю на "живом" баяне (кнопочном аккордеоне без розлива - два голоса в унисон). Баян самый дешёвый, но ощущения несравнимы с самыми дорогими цифровыми аккордеонами. Неважно как и чем это чувствуется, но это ни в какое сравнение с цифрой не идёт. Как и в данном случае - в этом видео. Даже на дешёвом планшете акустический Кавай на голову выше своего жалкого цифрового подобия. Но многим людям это не дано услышать, отсюда и бурная популярность цифры.

[@pivofernandez5908]

Aún se notan mucho las diferencias.

[@southpark5555]

Any concluding comments about those sound difference comparisons?

[@huy-music]

The NV10/s doesn’t have the exact same action as SK-7. It’s closer to a GL-30. Both are Millennium 3 but NV10 will feel different.

[@jackyjaacc_piano]

Excellent review! May I know which soundcard you are using for the NV10S? They sound brilliant.

[@Digitalpianocom]

We agee! :) We use Roland's DUO-CAPTURE EX soundcard connected to the instrument using Jack cables.

[@giuseppepaparo8977]

Vorrei chiedere come è registrato il suono del nv10s . . Microfoni ambientali o linea diretta?

[@TheDamnedScientist]

What's with that weird interpretation of THE Nocturne?

[@pianoman1347]

NV10 sounds better on the recording. Cleaner sound.. But I bet in person its the other way around, very hard to record real pianos with microphones. Cool comparison.

[@DavidIzquierdoAzzouz]

day and night. What sound are you using on the NV10S anyway? I don't think it's totally comparable cause the SK7 is not among the NV10S sounds, is it? Regardless, I still liked the way the NV10S sounds here, open and clear, nothing to dislike, thanks

[@joshwhiting3511]

As someone in the market for an NV10s or competitor, I love this. It would be worth doing a few things to give the NV10s a better chance here. #1 is to more carefully match the loudness when the audio switches. Listeners should use their volume knob to keep things even, this is challenging but the ear is extremely sensitive to changes in volume when it comes to preferences. #2 is matching the bass and lower midrange response, which can be adjusted in the NV10s using EQ. The microphones used to record this piano are richer in the lower range than the ones used by Kawai to sample the piano for use in the NV10s. We like bass and body and anything that loses that will sound less compelling. Lastly is the reverb. The room sound is all over the acoustic recording and the NV10s settings have little in the way of reverb. Using a digital reverb setting that more closely matches the room would be a significant change as well. So: loudness, equalisation, and reverb, can all be adjusted in the NV10s and the sound we're hearing here is not intrinsically the only thing NV10s can do. Given these differences the NV10s is doing a beautiful job. On the other hand, it is still a simulation. There is ultimately no replacement for a fine acoustic piano. But it's stunning what Kawai is accomplishing here. (One more thing: was this recorded with the analog or digital USB line out? Because anything less than impeccable d/a or a/d conversion would degrade the fidelity as well.)

[@joshwhiting3511]

@@3melv I think it's indisputable that the finest pianos will always sound better than the finest digital simulations. The only way a digital wins is if you pit it against a much poorer piano. However my point was that the NV10 in this video could sound better, or more like the acoustic, if certain attention is payed to some audio engineering technicalities.

[@ShaneyElderberry]

I think all digital pianos would benefit from external mics (two for stereo over the shoulder) to capture the room + outputs mixed via an audio interface. The levels can be adjusted to give an idea for the room and the instrument’s presence.

[@geezerintotech]

Thanks for this video. I feel the SK7 is just unbeatable. Looks beautiful too. Shigeru Kawai is my favourite line of grand pianos without question. However, the NV10s is still very nice though. What really gives it away is the extra resonsance and sustain that the SK7 produces. My only question is, are these hybrid digital pianos like the NV10s and NV5s good enough for a student to learn piano to a high level? I mean, there is one thing putting in the same action, but surely it's another thing getting the digital piano to respond just like an acoustic would? Just wondering because I am looking at getting either an NV5s or alternatively an upright acoustic Kawai K800. Thanks to anybody who responds to this video :)

[@Zoco101]

Man Discov...On many digital pianos the sympathetic string reasonance and sustain reasonance can be adjusted. I have increased the levels on my P-255. Turning it the other way round, I like that the levels can be decreased easily on DPs too. I get tired of hearing jangly acoustic pianos in hard acoustic settings. We just accepted it before, but now we don't have to.

[@Zoco101]

The NV10 is a performance instrument, so it should be popular in small theatres and auditoriums, and maybe in hotels and recording studios too. It would be nice to practise on, but strictly speaking, classical piano students need an upright action, not a grand action, and should check out the NV5S, which is also a lot less expensive - something that students would appreciate, I'm sure. There must be dozens of applications for an instrument which costs less than that which it emulates, stays in tune, doesn't mind being moved, works with headphones, incorporates MIDI and line-out, is less vulnerable to climate complications and doesn't require a specific position in a room. I'm saying that the exact sound is not always a deciding factor, even with discerning customers, so hybrids like the NV10S will have a good market. But with so much innovation, markets will shift and someone must lose out. Initially, the losers will be the buyers of new low-spec acoustic uprights, because the secondhand market for such instruments will collapse as buyers get better options. .

[@andersmoe]

Mike , out of curiosity, why would you recommend upright action rather than grand action for classical students ? If that's the case it sounds like buying the less expensive option is the better choice, a win-win.

[@Zoco101]

@@andersmoe In Britain, and probably in many other countries, piano exams are taken on uprights. Supposedly, this justifies preparing for them on uprights. Update: Seems I may be wrong about the use of uprights in piano exams nowadays.

[@alexanderwfrost]

@@Zoco101 I'm not sure that's true. All of my piano exams have been on grands in the UK

[@Zoco101]

@@alexanderwfrost Well I've been going on what a British piano teacher told me, but I'm listening to you. It's so long since I sat an exam myself. I hope that grands have become (or do become) the norm in exams, so the special need for uprights and upright actions disappears.

[@dominic6055]

imo wrong logic, you should play the same instrument as where performances are done, so you should practice on a gran piano...ideally if you can afford it

[@Yothlan]

Very nice 😍 ! However☝I'd like to hear the recording of the NV10S *with the same stereo microphone* as the SK7. Indeed, I tried a lot the NV10 (non-S) and it really has a poor speaker setup, although the action is awesome. The sound is way too "boomy" and artificial - and this is where the NV5 shines in comparison, with its much more realistic output. Thus, I'd be interested to know if Kawai updated the speaker output in this reviewed NV10S version ... could you maybe showcase that in the next video?

[@misstangshan95]

Did you try ca99 and can you confirm if this suffers from Nv10 boominess?

[@Yothlan]

@@misstangshan95 I haven't - I would expect it doesn't because it has a speaker setup with a soundboard that's similar to the NV5(s).

[@DanielPMBA]

Yes I think you're right. A lot of people said NV5 is more intimate, but do you think it's because most people have an upright instead of a grand? I have the opposite and I will need to go and try that out and see.

[@gustavogo2915]

@@DanielPMBA did you test it out? I got a brand new Kawai GL10 a few months ago and love it. If I had the money tho I would get a GL30

[@DenisSkobelev]

Даже у кабинетного рояля звук кажется более богатым (украшает его и акустика помещения), пусть там и струны не очень длинные. Если добавить в NV10S реверберацию может будет лучше. Но главное ощущение от клавиатуры должно быть как у настоящего рояля, так?

[@antonioperillo1182]

It could seemed that the two instruments have the same sound, but effectively why a Shigeru Kawai cost over € 30.000 and a Novus €5.000???

[@DanielPMBA]

SK7 is probably like € 75.000. Novus is better value but so far all my past experience with digital has been disappointments.

[@themike97_58]

The shigeru kawai is a medium size acoustic grand. The primary drivers behind the cost of the novus are the action and the sampling. There is no fancy cabinet that needs to be shaped and stabilized in a climate controlled environment for years, there's no giant cast iron skeleton for managing the string tension. There is no soundboard. They're wildly different pieces of equipment.

[@ShaneyElderberry]

The labor is also significantly higher. The SK pianos all take around 500 hours to manufacture. That’s more than twice the time required for a very nice upright piano.

[@simonebuffolo7177]

Very interesting! I had the pleasure of playing both a SK3 and a NV10s myself. It would be interesting to do the same with nv5s and an acoustic K series upright.

[@cristianpopa3866]

Kawai Novus sounds even better Becaust Kawai Novus replicate 100% with all details the Big one

[@jonathan130]

You should have used the speakers but ok

[@Digitalpianocom]

Some would say opposite. Difficult to please everyone 🎹😍👍🏻

[@Pianoman1488]

Appreciate the effort, but stereo vs. line out is not an accurate comparison.

[@ninovulkan9815]

The thing is, the Shigeru makes me cry. With the other I hear it’s a “fake” sound.

[@DanielPMBA]

What you need to do with this video is to turn the monitor around, and let your ear hear the playing. I know it's easy to be prejudice and tell your brain to dislike the NV10 when you are using your eyes, especially for an SK owner like me. But after I do that, I was immediately impressed.

[@KC-nm4ct]

@@DanielPMBA I can't see the screen anyway because I'm so busy crying, lol

[@sebthi7890]

Doggy has a clear opinion: please stop playing on this robot piano, I love Shigeru 🐶

[@titob.yotokojr.9337]

I'm ashamed to say this but I like the sound of the NV10s better!

[@gustavogo2915]

You should be ashamed because you’re completely WRONG…..

[@eduardocabrera4836]

The acoustic Shigeru Kawai SK-7 is better

[@dirkk.9613]

The analogue SK-7 sounds way more realistc.

[@jamesa375]

very bad idea to use the line out.Half of the money people are paying for the Novus is for the amplification and speakers.

[@pianomagicunleashed]

You should work on phrasing and rubato

[@misstangshan95]

You should work on your phrasing/tempo and pedalling but nice voicing:)

[@camerademuzica]

i tink the only difference is the character

[@darenarthur875]

The Nv10 sounds flat and lifeless in comparison. This video has only put me off in buying the Nv10 and will never be able to house the grand so where does this leave me now.

[@ninovulkan9815]

Agreed.

[@KC-nm4ct]

Trombone?

[@gustavogo2915]

I was in the same position so I got a brand new Kawai GL10 baby grand. Pretty happy with it

[@correasilvio2010]

Kawai acoustic piano is better! Eletric piano is horríbile!

[@Zoco101]

Sílvio: The expression "electric piano" is only used now for analogue electric sounds, which were common in the 1960s-80s, or for the digital emulation of those sounds. Normally, when someone calls a digital piano (more specifically, a "hybrid piano" in this case) an "electric piano", it means they are many years behind in their understanding of music technology and or that they wish always to be demeaning of digital technology. At least you didn't say "keyboard" instead of piano, which is even more demeaning. I'm guessing that your error was just a translation issue, and that you're really much more informed. But now you know about the correct nomenclature in English.

[@DanielPMBA]

Not in this case. In the past I'd have to buy a grand to practice how to play on a grand, now I don't because the keyboard is the same one used in SK7, and then I have the sample and the ability to use other piano sounds in the future via VST.