Bass Quantity vs. Bass Quality - www.AcousticFields.com

[@awwbollocksthen1359]

"Bass is my neighbour's favourite sound weather he knows it or not" lol

[@philthy.basement]

Welsh steveee boyo 😳🤔😂🤣

[@AcousticFields]

W, Yes, We recently measured low-frequency energy from a single 18" sub at 300' from source. We were testing the amplitude drop over time and distance.

[@moonfly1]

Getting a subwoofer off the floor and away from a corner will deviate from the goal of the low frequencies having a single point source. The more you can limit the delayed/reflected boundy interaction the better. Sure its good to decouple from a floor that's likely to be excited or where you have neighbours below you, but my room is a solid screed floor and putting a subwoofer on the floor right in the corner is one of the best places it could go.

[@AcousticFields]

D, Placing a subwoofer in the corner of a room will produce an additional 3 - 6 dB of room gain. Its quantity, not quality. It will also excite all other modal issues that end in the corners of rooms. If you treat your room correctly with the required surface area coverage and technology you have many more positioning options that produce quality, not quantity. For a critical listening environment minimizing room, distortion must be your goal.

[@moonfly1]

@@AcousticFields room gain is a fundamental function of any room. A sealed subwoofer designed well has a tendacy to naturally roll off at low frequencies approximately equal to the gain profile associated with those frequencies. The end result is often getting you closer to a flat overall frequency response which is absolutely desirable. Coupled with minimising/reducing the first reflextion point distance from source and the fact unwanted additional gain is easy to correct for these days, and I personally will take that corner load positioning without much worry. For reference, I've tried all sorts of positioning options, including in floor or ceiling IBs, in baffle wall subs, floor to ceiling stacks and dual stacks (could claim line array if you like) , and upto 4 subs in a room spread out. I've spent hundreds of ours in lots of rooms doing this as well, so I am drawing from experience. Don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing again treatment of a room, I think this is one of the most important things that's needs to be addressed and often overlooked, but to blanket discredit corner placement of a subwoofer is, in my view, incorrect.

[@AcousticFields]

@@moonfly1 We have tried corner loading with low-frequency drivers, no low-frequency room treatment and non-corner loading with treated rooms and find three distinct differences. We have found that the attack and decay rates with the treated rooms/no corners to produce tighter attack and decay rates, along with better separation and definition.

[@moonfly1]

@@AcousticFields that's an entirely possible result, but isn't given context. If you simply plonk any old sub in the corner of a room, and go measure the response in the opposing corner, with no room treatment or room correction in place, that's the obvious result. Boundary reinforcement boosts frequencies according to room modes. That means you get lower decay rates at those particular frequencies, whatever thay may be for any given installation, because you have more energy in the room. This is the easiest acoustical problem to correct for because you simply remove the excess energy from the original signal. In doing this you flatten the response to what it should be at the listening position, returning the audible result to what the director intended you to hear. The other benefits are an overall reduction in room modes you need to correct for, a greater probability of only needing to correct peaks in response (nulls can't be corrected very well if at all electronically), a reduction in distortion produced at the amplifier, and a reduction in distortion produced at the driver. In the old days, before powerful processors and good eq was readily available, corner loading could be problematic, especially when back then subwoofer performance was inferior and you couldnt tame the boosted output, but that's simply not the case anymore. You should always measure a room and optimise the subs location to get the best natural response, and that location may very well not be in the corner, but blindly dismissing corner loading and ignoring any potential benefits you could might gain is an outdated idea in my honest opinion and experience.

[@Robert-kx8mp]

Daniel Chatburn wow, thanks for putting this out there, I’ve been struggling with this corner dogma and the fact that in my very small square room, using an offset studio layout, the sub seems to work so much better in the corner, centered between the mid range monitors, behind the desk, but to my chagrin very precisely in a corner. I should add that the room is treated with a primacoustic london 12 kit, an additional full bass trap, and a couple of ceiling clouds. I use Sonarworks Reference 4 to calibrate room correction profiles, and I believe I’ve seen the exact phenomena moving the sub around the room, where in the corner I have a couple of expected peaks, which as you said are easiy compensated for by the software EQ profile.

[@louf7178]

What pissed me off was when I go clear into my hallway... and all the bass was there. I'll have to check out this website.

[@cgeyye9916]

Yeah..in my previous apartment most of the bass was in the bathroom..🙈😂

[@pibblesnbits]

I prefer bass quantity when fishing, you can always exaggerate about the size/quality of the fish when you tell the stories.

[@AcousticFields]

P, Yes, just like bass is exaggerated in small rooms.

[@louf7178]

LOL

[@GallowayJesse]

I hope this comment is reel

[@videojoe7]

I have two bass in the double digits. 👍

[@jamesfisher7171]

Great advice, love your tutorials, always good sound info. Awesome work, love your channel.

[@AcousticFields]

Glad you like them!

[@jonathanreddish8590]

i know your going to think im crazy..... i have all of the perfect listening room space in the studio, but when it comes to my living room, i dont want critical listening, or perfect sound, i want to rock out a bit... so i applied this thinking, and put my speakers in the corner so i could get room gain, and also insane width in the stereo.... its really nice, less obtrusive in the room, and im not fooling my self that my living room stereo is a critical listening space........ its not, there is glass, granite countertops, furniture, drywall... etc etc...... its a sort of relief, and i just enjoy the stereo so much more!

[@AcousticFields]

J, Everyone's perceptions, belief systems, and usages are different. Thank you for sharing yours with our audience.

[@SwirlingDragonMist]

Way to be man! the particulars of perfection can damper allot of fun in experimentation. Glad to see you trying stuff out, and going yr own way. I'm building a 7 channel surround sound set with big 35hz towers in all channels, against popular advice of crossing over into dedicated subs. It's more quadraphonic in philosophy. We'll see how it goes :) There will be many chapters of experimentation for sure.

[@andreasmoller9798]

I always had my speakers om the corners and thought that was good, But i was wrong and sound was much better when Moving out the speakers. Some speakers can stay close to the Wall with good results

[@garygranato9164]

cheers for the good info but, if what you say is correct then why do all of the best subwoofer makers use a "downward firing" speaker in their designs ???

[@AcousticFields]

G, They want to bring more room sound into their product's presentation value. They want quantity versus quality.

[@garygranato9164]

@@AcousticFields cheers for reply

[@ladjkaoz]

I'm a mobil dj at venues where I have to perform the DJ usually gets a small corner to set up, very few times I get to chose where to set up. what would you recomend. my big system is 2 subs yorville ls1204, tops JBL VRX932la I usually set the tops on top of the subs What I hear here is quite the opposite of how I set up.

[@AcousticFields]

You need a new reference for quality. What you are hearing is not low frequency sound quality. It is sound quantity. They are not related at all.

[@rb032682]

good stuff. I currently have so many Amazon shipping boxes and Amazon food delivery bags cluttering my entire apartment, your intro sound holds up until around 40Hz? , maybe lower, before it gets muddy. I have a cheap KRK sub sitting 8" off the floor on an old, discontinued Amazon frozen food tote insulated and overstuffed with 1"-thick cotton wool bats. And a bunch of Acoustic Fields 2" foam nearby.

[@AcousticFields]

RB, Go ahead and try raising your sub with those material types. Report back to us your findings.

[@ninji5226]

Agree, i only care about quality. If you have the set up right, the quantity will be there. Conversely, qauntity first rarely gives way to quality. Question? If i have a concrete floor can i still set my sub on it or should i build a box? Thanks for all the info.

[@AcousticFields]

N, Set up is only the starting point. Set up alone will not ensure anything without low-frequency management and Rt-60 times must be designed for.

[@ninji5226]

@@AcousticFields True. The fortunate/unfortunate fact is im about to realize my dream of a home theater, but it has to be in my basement. The room is not ideal and ill just have to manage as best i can because my options are very limited. Again, i appreciate the knowledge cause im learning a lot. At the very least my next home theater will be purpose built with knowledge gained and not with whats available. We all gotta start somewhere. Take care.

[@jacksonw5981]

What if you like the vibration on the floor during intense scenes? Now what if you I want that feeling and still get good sound? Or is this one or the other, you don't get both?

[@AcousticFields]

We are all about resolution. Vibrations that transfer energy are not part of our paradigms.

[@johnbeeck2540]

Really enjoy your content, experience, and perspectives! I built a 15" sealed subwoofer in a tower type box - driven with an internal 1000w amp. The driver cone sits about 24" above the floor - is this the type of elevation you are describing? Thanks for all your great advice!

[@AcousticFields]

That is one part. Now, focus on absorption close to the source and vibration management in your new design.

[@08mario08]

What about downfiring subs?

[@AcousticFields]

The room only sees energy. The source or method of delivery into the room is not a concern. However, a downfiring sub brings into play the surface it is firing into.

[@brown-eyedman4040]

Thank you for another great video. And especially thank you for your excellent series of videos. I'm so lucky I can across your KZbin channel. (Plus your forum) Happy Thanksgiving.

[@mikedinno8413]

What about down firing subs vs front firing?

[@AcousticFields]

M, The room only sees energy. The displacement of that energy into the room speaks more to definition of each low frequency than the room issues.

[@doyouluvit]

Dennis what should I put my down firing sub on? Foam just like the front firing?

[@AcousticFields]

Foam is not a low frequency absorption technology. You must elevate, isolate, and attenuate with the proper SW absorption technology.

[@doyouluvit]

@@AcousticFields SW??

[@birgerolovsson5203]

I have my sub on Sonic Design damping "pillows" to isolate my sub from the floor with great result.

[@AcousticFields]

Isolation, elevation, and attenuation are our goals with low frequency sources.

[@451Ron]

I have 3 subs in the basement on carpeted concrete. I assume this doesn't apply to my setup, other than the corner loading. Would I benefit from raising the subs of the floor?

[@AcousticFields]

451, Yes room response will improve with a 12" - 24" height in 8'-10' rooms

[@TJ.Turner]

But how do you determine what size subwoofer you need? Should the drivers be larger than the main speakers?

[@AcousticFields]

Z, The room only sees energy. It does not care how it is produced. We do not use down firing subs. Their quality of sound production depends on the floor surface area construction, materials used and density. This is too many variables to manage.

[@powerinnumbers6159]

So, i have seen you talk about not putting subs on the ground . I have seen you talk about "if" the ground is not solid you excite the floor as a reason for this rule. My question is, why do you never say "if you have concrete slab floor and carpet , then....... it's ok, or it's still bad? " It seems to me that you blanket this no subs on the ground rule on everyone even if the floor IS SOLID. Can you please explain , thanks

[@AcousticFields]

M, Raising a low-frequency generating device up and away from a surface area will improve overall room response especially below 100 Hz. The composition of the boundary surface is not an issue.

[@powerinnumbers6159]

sure ok, you did say especially if it's not a solid floor

[@powerinnumbers6159]

@StringerNews1 I don't dare say he doesn't know what he's talking about. I know he knows more than I do. What I am trying to find out is how much is typical snake oil BS and how much he's really "helping " out his subscribers. It seems to me, every single video they put out has a way to highlight the need for one of their products. That's why I wanna know why he generalized so much. It seems by generalizing he opens his products up to more customers that may not really need them, the case in point is a person with a concrete floor. He says and I quote " so here's what happens, if your floor IS NOT SOLID" that is what he said, however he said this AFTER telling EVERYBODY to not put subs on the floor. So he first generalized and secondly put a case forward that only explained why for people without solid floors.

[@powerinnumbers6159]

@StringerNews1 his videos do look suspiciously like propaganda I'll give you that , what he wants is just one fool a month to spend a ridiculous $750 on his subwoofer platform?

[@Mtaalas]

There's no free lunch... by rising the sub off the floor you trade for reflection from the floor that's much later and thus can be more destructive than if it's on the floor. Though the matter of a fact is that quarter wavelength of 100hz is already something like 80cm long, so the distance from the floor is probably not significant until it reaches 30-40cm but i wouldn't push it unnecessarily. Just use as small of a decoupling you can. Frankly, they shouldn't sell anything but cardioid subs for home use. You'll get rid of unnecessary reflections from the nearby surfaces and the field is more even.

[@AcousticFields]

M, Low-frequency energy is pressure based and radiates in 360 degrees from source. Middle and high frequency energy is "reflection" based.

[@TitaniumCarbine]

Can you put sub on floor if floor is concrete?

[@AcousticFields]

Yes but you will still have a smoother response if you raise it 12 - 18"

[@bindegalt]

What if the best position in the room is in the corner? I just did the subcrawl (which people say doesn't really work), and the best placement was in the front corners.

[@AcousticFields]

R, Do not put a low-frequency energy producing device in the room corners.

[@friedmule5403]

How do you avoiding the speaker from dangling around when the base is moving air? Without a rock solid placement, your bass gets muddy.

[@AcousticFields]

F, You place the sub on a platform that elevates, isolates, and attenuates.

[@dragonflyfab9703]

Best advice yet!!!!

[@AcousticFields]

Thank you for your support and following.

[@cboyamg]

How did you keep the subs from moving when hanging by chains from the celling? Even moving a fraction of a fraction uses a lot of energy and isnt efficient at all

[@StewartMarkley]

Hanging a sub won't cause any perceptible movement because the cone movement is symmetrical canceling out any potential movement. Plus if there was any asymmetrical cone movement, the inertia of the mass of the sub prevents any significant motion. I actually did this myself hanging my sub in the corner of my basement forming a very efficient bass horn. Merely adjusting the volume of the sub kept the base from being overwhelming.

[@SwirlingDragonMist]

That’s cool man, have you seen what Audioholics has found with their research into using multiple subs for seat to seat consistency? I’d love to see you guys do a collaboration video discussing your takes on bass. And I hope you guys can play nice where you disagree.

[@stampede8681]

I prefer Audioholics as they present more Practical examples and refer to research papers. As much as i would like to levitate my sub off the floor, practically ot not possible for various reason. There must be compromise here. Sometimes I prefer quantity, nothing wrong with that, why cant we have both

[@harbinger8083]

do you provide consulting for bar layouts?

[@AcousticFields]

H, Yes, we do commercial applications. Fill out the information in this link: www.acousticfields.com/free-room-analysis/

[@emiel333]

Great video. I still struggle to find the right place in my room concerning the active subwoofer. I have it on spikes, though. Therefore it isn’t using the floor as a speaker, luckily. It’s all trial and error when it comes to low frequency energy. Not even mentioning the standing waves. At the moment, I am experimenting with all kind of places and absorption for my subwoofer. The sub I have itself is a great performer, it hits 23 cycles a second (23 Hz) with only -6dB. Watching movies is a good job for my setup but when it comes to music listening, the differences between each genre are quite large. Some songs have too many bass, others a lot less etcetera. I hope I will figure out more about my room soon. I also do measurements which I’m using for more then 20 years so I’m capable of finding the real sweet spot. Suggestions and tips about this subject are welcome. Best regards, Emiel.

[@AcousticFields]

E, Start with your sub woofer in the room center. Move left 1' then right 1' . Start in the center and move 1' forward and 1' backwards. With this method you will get a handle on your room sound.

[@emiel333]

Acoustic Fields Thanks for the tip! This is very useful.

[@moonfly1]

Take all the guessing out of the equation. Get a room analysing tool, there are even good free ones like REW you can get from Home Theater Shack. Measure the subwoofers response in the available locations around the room so you can visualze the in room response. From there you will be able to place the subwoofer optimally with confidence.

[@ProjectFinalAudio]

The only thing I can do in my room is raise them slightly off the ground....there's no room at all...if I move the subs to another location....the amount of low frequencies decreases drastically....

[@AcousticFields]

IG, Experiment with different positions within the room and different heights.

[@ProjectFinalAudio]

@@AcousticFields ok

[@ryankramer]

Why not just EQ the peaks down and make the subwoofer work less hard and use the room gain to your advantage? Even Harman Intl. released a white paper saying 4 subs slightly offset from the corners and then EQing the peaks down gave very good seat to seat consistency in most cases.

[@AcousticFields]

Spending money to buy 4 sub woofers to treat just low-frequency energy is not cost effective. Why not treat the full range of room issues with the same dollars.

[@Finn-McCool]

I have 4 10" downfiring subs on a concrete slab covered in level loop carpet. Is it still recommended to elevate the subs in my case? Thanks. Love your channel. New sub(scriber)

[@AcousticFields]

F, What are your room dimensions? Yes, especially in your case with multiple sources.

[@Finn-McCool]

@@AcousticFields my room is 13 x 25 x 7 gear situated along a long wall, with an acoustic tile drop ceiling, an open entry doorway in the back wall corner that I will use a room divider to close off during sessions. My subs are all matching JBL PB10. I was thinking about using four tapered 4x4 wooden legs as uprights joined with rails between and with divots in the end to accept the rubber feet of the sub. Overall I'd like to keep the top of the subs to 30" to be as aesthetically pleasing as possible and perhaps also used as a pedestal for the surround speakers. That configuration would create approx 18" of free space from driver to slab. Thanks for the information. And how do you feel about incorporating a mini DSP and room eq software? My processor is Sony's current flag, the STR ZA5000ES. -✌🏼

[@alexm4515]

May be a dumb question: can one place a sub on to sound insulation material?

[@AcousticFields]

A, I do not understand your question. Please be specific.

[@alexm4515]

@@AcousticFields instead of raising off the floor using chains, stand ,etc. Cannot simply put it on a thick foam wedge?

[@Sc2God724]

@@alexm4515 you can and it stops the resonance but if you do it on a foam you will hear the bass but not feel it as if it was on the floor if you want to even out the bass just have 2 subwoofers

[@Sc2God724]

And also 2 smaller subs has a punchy sound and bigger subs has low bass it all depends on your taste

[@RC-qc2nz]

Great advice Dennis. But what simple thing can I use to put my subwoofer on top? Just a desk and everything would shake. A wooden box maybe?

[@moonfly1]

You could use something like the SVS isolation feet.

[@AcousticFields]

R, The goal with any low-frequency producing device within a room is threefold. First, elevate the sub off the floor to improve room response. Second, isolate the vibration producing device from the floor and three attenuate. The best place to place low-frequency absorption is close to the source. Once the energy enters the room it becomes room distortion if it doesn't fit into room size. Choose the proper technology that accomplishes all three. You will be much happier with the sound quality doing all three objectives. Review the comments by those who have done this.

[@C--A]

Don't use a wooden box unless it's a specially built custom dampening box. Use a foot high slab of acoustic open cell foam. Pyrosorb-S is probably the best option as it is open cell but very high density, very good at stopping vibrations as well as sound obsorbing. Easily available to buy in custom sizes online. I use 50mm custom size Pyrosorb-S foam on my stands for my bookshelf speakers. With platinum silicone anti vibration decoupling pads on top of the Pyrosorb-S. £54 total cost but well worth it. Gives the best performance out of my 30hz-20khz bookshelf speakers that produce a lot of bass from the rear firing bass ports.

[@RC-qc2nz]

@@C--A thank you

Chinda Ajoku Nice input... thanks for sharing.

[@vecvan]

Guru talk. Does room size matter? I imagine a room smaller than the wavelength (300m/s sonicspeed * 0.025s cycleperiod = 7.5 m @ 40cycles/s) is not sub-optimal--excuse the pun

[@AcousticFields]

V, Yes, room size and volume must be matched to energy usage.

[@bgm1911]

My subwoofer came from the manufacturer with FEET, not CHAINS; what am I gonna do with this?

[@AcousticFields]

B, Don't do the thinking for the manufacturer, do your own based upon what your room requires.

[@alfredhead2546]

How do I view your products on your website?

[@AcousticFields]

A, Go to the shop tab on center top of home page.

[@XDEICHX]

I see a lot of good info on your channel about room treatment, although all the room examples given are in rectangular rooms. How do the principles apply to L-shaped rooms?

[@AcousticFields]

D, Set up is critical. Make sure your side wall distances are equal.

[@AcousticFields]

D, With L shaped rooms, you must position your rig so that you have a front wall and two sidewalls connected. Put the L behind you.

[@GillesvanZeebroeck]

If I want to have any decent sound quality but cannot afford to give up a room dedicated to listening, should I then still make any sound quality investments? I live in a home with children and stuff, like they live and walk around and God forbid, touch stuff yet I want to have good sound quality, it seems I cannot find the appropriate approach for me!

[@Canadian_Eh_I]

you can build a bunch of absorbers and diffusers on stands and place them near the walls during listening sessions and then stack them out of sight for family time

[@budgetaudiophile6048]

So, I watch all of your videos but I always feel you and I are going to be at an in-pass when it comes to subwoofers and bass management. I rearrange my theater's LFE layout a lot as I'm always trying new things to see what sounds good where and when reading and watching videos from the likes of Audioholics, Home Theater Gurus or anyone that seems to be very home theater focused, I've never heard to not put your subs in a corner except from this channel. I mean, I'm all about getting the best sound for the money and am willing to try anything but with proper DSP and EQ, getting a sub placed in a corner SEEMS to be the most exciting option when watching movies. Whether it's a single-sub theater or a sub with nearly a dozen subwoofer drivers. I'd be very curious and interested to hear your thoughts and reactions to the placement and calibration videos posed by other professional home theater installers.

[@AcousticFields]

B, The reason other companies tell you to place your subs in the corners is because they lack the technology to treat unwanted modal issues throughout the room. We guarantee our rooms to be flat at + - 1 dB from 30 - 6,300 Hz. In order to provide that guarantee you must have powerful low-frequency technology that is predictable and consistent in performance. Our carbon technology does all of that. Once you have all the low-frequency room modal issues addressed in your room and it measures flat like it should, you can then place the subs in the room where they sound the best based upon room usage requirements..

[@AcousticFields]

Placing subs in the corners is not cost/benefit effective. We have tried this technique and the cost of the multiple subs for a small 1.5 dB benefit / sub was not justifiable to us considering the poor sound quality that resulted. Remember that most room modes end in the corners of a room. Why would you want to add more energy in an area of the room that is already plagued with multiple modal issues? Its all about quantity not quality with this methodology. If you can make it to my new studio in Burbank, I can show you what a properly treated room with no subs in the corners sounds like. Your low-frequency reference will be changed forever.

[@budgetaudiophile6048]

@@AcousticFields I see what you're saying and I would absolutely love to get out to a listening session one day. Right now I have a monsterous LFE setup. Some of my subwoofers are indeed corner loaded. Currently my LFE channel consists of 6 15" drivers and 3 18" drivers and I'm tuning to be flat down to around 15Hz or so. I've been using my MiniDSP for timing, phase, XO and PEQ. Are you saying your philosophy is something along the lines of placement, treatment, tuning? I still have a LOT to learn about all of this, HAHAHA but it seems like quite a few professionals like yourself are teaching a different methodology. Placement, tuning, some more tuning, then at the end, as the pièce de résistance, treat the room. At least that's my understanding (and trust me, I'm a US Marine, I've been wrong A LOT, LOL!) on what they're trying to convey.

[@budgetaudiophile6048]

On the subject of flat to ULF (because that's what makes my beard hair stand up happy) I feel my theater is relatively tame in the low end. I have a roughly 1000 square feet of room that I've got pressurized to around 125dB when the bass REALLY hits hard and I'm getting 10Hz at around 100dB of those. You flip over to one of my friends, Scott, who is running 9 18" subwoofers and he's FLAT down to around 8Hz or so. My subwoofers, according to your videos, are no where NEAR ideally placed. They're decoupled, but they're still "on the floor" (though my floor is cement and earth) and 2 of my 9 subwoofers are corner loaded. Reaching down to and well below 15Hz is nice to me and it makes me super happy as my tuning capacity evolves and I get richer and fuller bass lower and lower down the spectrum. What are your thoughts on ultra low frequencies (I think calling them cycles sounds way cooler, btw) I mean those frequencies that quite literally cause your house's structure to fail. I'm only pushing about 7000 watts to my LFE channel, I feel like if I were to do like my friend Scott, convert things over to 240v with dedicated circuitry and start pushing into the 20 to 25 kilowatt range, I'd be able to dig that much deeper, flatter.

[@AcousticFields]

B, The issue they have is that they lack the proper rates and levels of low-frequency absorption in their "technologies". Once you hear a room where the low end is as clearly defined as the mids and highs are with separation, definition, and the proper attack and decay rates below 100 Hz. you realize that treatment is the answer and its analog which make sit even better. Everyone's belief system is based upon their sonic references which are based upon poorly designed and implemented treatment types. Come to LA. I will change your life. What is your room size?

[@AP-qc9hi]

This. People always tell me to put sub in the corner because you get +x db from wall and another +x db from the floor. But i never liked the quality of bass when the sub is in the corner. I'm glad its not just in my mind.

[@AcousticFields]

A, Yes, I completely agree. I can get one sub to sound better than 4 subs. Its all about energy management through room size and treatment. Using multiple subs to achieve a small gain in frequency response is neither cost effective nor quality producing. The process and reasoning is similar to the loudness wars a few years back.

[@AP-qc9hi]

I also find smaller subs tend to be more musical. In my home setup I have best experience with smaller diameter subs. I have a much more expensive 12 in sub that can't match the speed and musicality of my 8 inch.

[@DjClimamusic]

This is gold information, thumbs up and thank you very much.

[@zorhis1996]

for putting it off the floor , what if its downfiring ?

[@AcousticFields]

Z, If its down firing then you can raise the whole unit from the floor. Put 12" wood legs under it and move it around the room.

[@seraphthecreator]

If it's down firing it has been specifically designed to pressure the floor.

[@Robert-kx8mp]

seraph or designed to avoid ventilation noise

[@Nerdrific]

Great info! Thanks.

[@AcousticFields]

B, People that use our carbon technology tell us that their low end is no as defined and separated as the mid ranges in their presentation. This is quality sound.

[@caroldelaney4700]

I raiased mine 6 foot above the floor it sounds great .tall room .thanks I don’t feel like an idiot for doing it.

[@AcousticFields]

C, Good for you. What is your ceiling height?

[@caroldelaney4700]

Acoustic Fields the ceiling is 13 ft it’s not huge but the sound is more equal as I walk around the space and no boom sounds i don’t mind where the box is as this is becoming a listening room in the house.thanks for your helpful video.im just beginning to build up an audio system so still learning as I go along.

[@VueAudiotechnikSound]

Not true this is snake oil. The mambo jumbo confusing isolation with directivity. Not wanting interference in the room means putting subs on the floor. Any free field location will inherently have more reflections.

[@AcousticFields]

V, You are confusing sound pressure which is wave energy with ray energy. Low-frequency energy is all about pressure waves which are omni - directional.

[@VueAudiotechnikSound]

Acoustic Fields Yes and low frequencies are pressure waves, and they are Omni directional provided the effective diameter of the transducer is less than a quarter wavelength in size. Exactly why placing them on the floor creates a perfect half sphere radiator. Placing them any significant distance from a boundary (like a floor) will create a reflection that will cause a dip in the response as a function of the distance which will vary with different positions in the room depending on the relative distances between your position and the sub and the floor. Also the response will be affected by any transition from half sphere and whole space which will be function of the distance from the floor and the operating band of the subwoofer. There is an inherent step function in response as the transducer transitions form half sphere radiation to whole space. This is very basic stuff and the fact that you are denying it makes all your useful information on room treatment questionable.

[@VueAudiotechnikSound]

I understand that you are looking at the situation form the point of view of room interaction but you can not forget about the basic physics of boundary effects on directionally and reflections. In a small room placing the subwoofer on the floor can in effect create a pressure zone resulting in idealized low frequency performance. Suggest you Rea the work done by Don Davis and Crown on this as it applies to PZM microphones. It is exactly the same only with regard to output rather than input transducers. I also suggest you read up on modern directional subwoofer arrays the concept that subwoofers are always Omni directional has been significantly changed since we are now starting to effectively measure their directional characteristics and can now model subwoofers in both free field and recently in real rooms.

[@VueAudiotechnikSound]

The worst thing you can do is place subwoofers at different locations relative to the major room boundaries and hope that the resulting response irregularities randomly correct each other. Your points about mechanically decoupling the sub from the floor or room is good but it can be done at these frequencies while keeping the sub close enough to the floor to be a half sphere radiator over it’s operating band.

[@Oneness100]

@@VueAudiotechnikSound Modern Subwoofer arrays?

[@Stevo19801]

How about multi subs and eq for 100hz and below as per floyd toole Instead of huge amounts of absorption?

[@AcousticFields]

S, We have tried this technique. We used 4 subs and even raised or lowered them in the corners for some tests and did the same for various room positions. We could achieve around 1.5 dB improvement per sub depending on sub height and room position. Our subs at that time cost 3,500 each. A 6 dB improvement for 14,000.00. Another thing we did not like was the attack and decay rates with any sub woofer count and position using this methodology. There is simply no substitute for matching sub woofer count and driver diameter with room size and volume. If you couple this tactic with the proper rates and levels of low-frequency absorption to match amplitudes, you have a quality sound instead of quantity sound. Remember you must use tactics to create a sonic strategy.

[@SwirlingDragonMist]

@@AcousticFields Ooh I like that allot man! Sonic strategy, quality over quantity, volumetric pairing, nice stuff!

[@moonfly1]

@@AcousticFields a lot of this advice seems to really ignore some acoustic principles of subwoofer design. Multiple sub deployments can be problematic if you don't know how to set them up, but multiple subwoofers set up correctly with proper room correction on top are a very well documented way to tackle in room response problems. More drivers and amplifiers reduce the stress on each amplifier lowering distortion. Decay rates from each subwoofer can be reduced quite a lot due to the lowered output required from each unit. These things seem to be being completely ignored. You can cause problems with mutli subs as well, so I agree on the caution being advised. Without proper alignment of the subs you will absolutely create issues, a flat response alone isn't the whole story and as you say, decay rates are a critical component of accuracy and quality. Quantity in and of itself though isn't simply the worst thing ever, it's like saying a car is bad because it has a high top speed. You want headroom in a system for it to remain composed and your end result to have the required dynamics, but get these things right and the end results can be stunning. These things can also be especially useful in rooms where aesthetics are limiting the actual acoustic treatments you can deploy. I would like to reiterate that addressing the acoustics of the room is very important and I'm all for that, it's as important as the proper system set up in my view, but we seem to be ignoring everything else to promote it as the only silver bullet solution here. Maybe I'm reading things a little wrong, but I think addressing these points is important. One thing I will absolutely agree on is the importance of reducing decay times, RT60 should never be ignored.

[@rvbsoundfactory]

Audiophiles, I am sure these gentlemen are the same ones who helped write the soundtrack for drastic park.

[@AcousticFields]

R, One of the issues film engineers have is getting the low-frequencies that they need for car crashes and explosions to translate from a small room in which most are produced to a larger theater room which the public hears the end result. We are currently building a new facility in Burbank next to Warner Bros. to address this very issue.

[@LordPrometheous]

what the hell is "drastic park"?

[@FOH3663]

Nonsense; 1.) Room gain isn't distortion. 2.) Re: Subs Nothing wrong with being placed on the floor. There are significant advantages to boundary placement (i.e., on the floor, against a wall, in the corner).

[@FOH3663]

Audio playback and sound behaviour in small room acoustics is well understood. There's way too much bad information and bass mythology advice that is put forth as absolutes. This particular video included. Granted, I'm guessing other content from AF is likely solid advice. The physics; 1.) Room modes (resonances) are determined by the room's dimensions. 2.) Which resonances are excited are determined by speaker placement. 3.) Which resonances are heard are determined by listener placement. Utilizing this information, if the desired response is achieved with the LF source placed on/against a boundary, that's great. Enjoy the benefits that accompany spatial loading (ie Room Gain, Boundary Reinforcement, SBIR Mitigation, etc.).

[@AcousticFields]

F, Room gain which is the result of unwanted modal pressures, SBIE which is the result of room boundary surfaces, and a whole host of other room distortions impact sonic presentation value. If the room was not there, there would be no room distortions.

[@moonfly1]

@@AcousticFields not all boosts in response are unwanted though. Room gain and boundary gain (they are different) can actually aid at times in a beneficial manner. Sealed subwoofers in particular are designed around this where their natural response is targeted to roll off with the average room gain profile that increases with lowering of frequency. We don't want exaggerated peaks, but boosts in the response that bring it up level can actually be beneficial, and to write all gains off as negative isn't telling the whole story.

[@AcousticFields]

D, Once again quantity is not quality. If you can get to my new studio in Burbank, I will demonstrate this for you. You need a new reference to draw upon. Once you hear the difference you will have a new reference in sound quality. A reference where the low-frequency energy has the same attack and decay, definition, and separation as middle range frequencies. Once you have heard the difference, your sonic perceptions will be changed forever.

[@mrpmj00]

Love your videos. ---- my source=Apple Music lossless

[@AcousticFields]

Thank you for your support.

[@THECURELOST13]

couldn't you just point it up towards the ceiling?

[@AcousticFields]

T, Low-frequency energy is sound pressure. It is wave energy. It is multi - directional. Ray energy is directional. Ray energy is middle and high frequency energy.

[@sdrozo]

If you're going to say cycles you should really say cycles per second when you say hertz it implies cycles per second that's the definition of it. Sound is not energy it takes energy to produce pressure waves

[@AcousticFields]

S, Lets don't miss the forest for the trees. Stay focused on topic and message.

[@lawpenner]

😄 ... Seb, a cycle is a wave form with a measured distance. Wave size is relevant to contructing spaces. The associated unit of time is not A sound wave is a form of moving energy You're 0 for 2

[@Sadowsky46]

Best idea: rise your subs! Same is true for your subscribers 😉👍

[@SwirlingDragonMist]

Here’s another take that seems to create quality bass as well. kzbin.info/www/bejne/p6mug5ykfsZ6pMU

[@bideosgrasiososjajd]

lmao i have a 2.1 and use the subwoofer as a footrest

[@StefanGhitescu]

I get a feeling that this is not a clip for us people with 100$ pc speakers.

[@RockFordCademce]

I used to hang my subwoofers from the celing

[@AcousticFields]

R, Yes we did the same in our first studio. We had three subs on winches that we could raise or lower at different heights. This is how we realized the importance on room response.

[@worldsyoursent.1635]

💪🙏

[@AcousticFields]

Thank you.

[@NoEgg4u]

Good advice. Unfortunately, 99.9999% of the public simply want 12" or larger woofers, and a bass knob that will allow them to knock paintings off of the walls. Virtually no one (even many of the viewers of your channel) has ever heard a professionally dialed in stereo in a treated room. Virtually no one has experienced "correct" bass (or correct imaging, soundstaging, etc). Most folks, when stereo shopping, will hear boomy bass, associate that with power and quality, and will enjoy their bloated system happily ever after. Ask random people on any street corner "Who makes the best speakers?" The answer will almost always be "Bose". So sadly, these folks will shoehorn their subs in the corners. The mindset is that the more room pressure the better -- accuracy be dammed (in fact, accuracy is not even a factor in their decision). Cheers!

[@AcousticFields]

P, Quantity is not quality. We are about resolution, fidelity, separation, and listening to all of the music without hearing the room.

[@markceci9896]

First of all, none of your products are low cost...at all! $1000 for a sub platform? I understand that you dont use cosmic materials, but, everything I see on your website is crazy. I assume your customer base is 25k stereos, just to start. Audio equipment pricing, in general, has become so crazy.

[@AcousticFields]

Its all about surface area coverage with the proper rate and level of absorption. The cost is directly related to both of those two variables.

[@markceci9896]

@@AcousticFields its marked way up. Good for you. Your business is dedicated sound rooms. I get it. A little book shelf speaker sitting on a giant absorber column, looks ridiculous. Just saying.

[@birgerolofsson2347]

"Don't put them on the floor" = Is the best tip for at least 95% of the people out there.

[@AcousticFields]

B, Its amazing to me that people think a sub woofer sitting on the floor does not produce distortion. How about SBIE which is unwanted pressure between source and boundary surface for any speaker type. They even have a name for the distortion it is so prominent.

[@duaneyoutbe]

I suggest you shorten your logo intro to three seconds, logo intro’s are akin to begging for likes and subscribers. I prefer the content to be the promoter of your Logo, good content can make ANY logo to be a great Logo. It’s really great to see you promote liking and subscribing to your channel AFTER we watch your content. You are not begging for subscribers and likes BEFORE your content. Which is what most other KZbin Channel authors do which is very annoying. I’m now a subscriber of your channel based off of your content second style. I prefer a content first, not logo first. Your seven second logo intro was about four seconds too long. But is was much more tolerable compared to most other channels.