Marc Victor's Response to Massad Ayoob's Five-Point Checklist (Part 1) (John's Briefs)

[@beagles70]

been to several court cases that were self defense related and served on a jury recently. I''ll take Victor's advice over Ayoob. Dont talk to police.

[@johnbravo1034]

Agreed. Thing is you can’t tell if you’re getting a good or bad cop so assume the worst.

[@pauljohnson9445]

@@johnbravo1034 My relative worked in a State Attorney's Office for over 20 years. He wouldn't say anything of significance when pulled over, because you don't know what kind of cop you're dealing with, and what if any agendas are at work. Just save it. Might be reading this later anyway...........if so............Hi Judge!

[@golvic1436]

I am more of the opinion that Mas give too much info, and lawyers advocate too little, because Mas assumes the positive situation (the well known druggie with nothing more than a knife and a crack pipe) and lawyers always go with the worst case scenario. I go with a hybrid of brevity is the best policy. I will state that I shot in self defense and I will cooperate fully after 24-48 hours once I have discussed this with my council. Not too much but certainly not clam up and become a “I want my lawyer” spewing robot unless it is clear that they want to make an example of you. That being said, know your local self defense laws by heart if you even think about carrying a gun because that is more telling on what your tolerances are than the generic advice Mas or Victor will give. Even better, get a local defense lawyer on retainer and ask them how the local authorities interpret the laws because in many cases the interpretation is more important than the text.

[@beagles70]

@@golvic1436 Be careful. I was alos married to a detective and she always advised her family to never say anything if police question you. She knew.

[@gregb6469]

What you don't say can not be held against you.

[@deanpeterson2272]

Love getting the perspective of different professionals. Both Massad's and Victor's opinions are very useful.

[@georgemoomaw9437]

Obviously this was recorded before the massive prosecutorial misconduct in the Kyle Rittenhouse trial. Prosecutor DID try to introduce Kyle’s right to remain silent as an argument for guilt.

[@ASPextra]

And got the smack down for it, too. Darn near caused a mistrial.

[@vrcmf3172]

And failed

[@vrcmf3172]

He literally also said… in extreme cases (which that was) they do try to hold the 5th against you. As to research only in big national cases and this is to sway PUBLIC opinion. Not to win any case

[@rp1645]

George. The massive media, already Anti Second Amendment right's. The MSNBC reporter following the Jurers. To find out were they lived. Thank gosh for good cop who stopped the Traffic violation's the speeding reporter was doing. If it BLEEDS it LED'S. The DA just out to Make a big case move him up in Political food chain. YES the Lawyer is right. To meany cop have made up there mind's, and want to be the Judge on calls of shooting.

[@mrfuriouser]

@@ASPextra That would have been AWFUL, though, for Kyle especially.

[@r.a.facklam4851]

I think I'm going to lean in the direction of don't say a word, that way your lawyer has a completely clean slate to start on. Massad is looking at things from a police officer's perspective, he was a cop for many years. I think his advice is coming from a very honorable man, but we have to remember, not everybody in the court system has as much honour as he does.

[@sjbesq1]

With due respect for Mas' expertise, I’m a criminal defense attorney in California and agree with every word counsel said.

[@ASPextra]

You and every attorney I have asked. :)

[@lxvideostuff7200]

why there are not victim defense attorneys? none of you defend victims and victims have to prove something, so that anything can, eventually, be done, and eventually, someone to get some interest, in seeing, that maybe, that guy can really be a victim... and a thousand eventual maybes latter a victim can get a start of some legal proceeding, which will lead to a thousand more eventual maybes. meanwhile... a thousand criminals just stays silent and get away in no time

[@pbp6741]

These experts are so interesting. All of them. Thank you for gaining us access to them.

[@rogerwiltfong4289]

This is outstanding material and should be essential for anyone purchasing a gun for self defense. Thanks to both Marc and Active Self Protection. You both are clearly top notch in your respective fields.

[@DARKSIDEART2022]

Can you get these guys to do a video with Massad? I'd love to hear them have this conversation with each other. I'd be curious if either could change each other's minds, or perhaps just open their minds to the other's perspectives. I hope that made sense.

[@raymondrich6720]

I have also been through this, I will most certainly keep my mouth shut next time.

[@davesbrewing]

As someone who has been through the system, I would love to have Massad Ayoob on my team, with that being said the idea that talking to the cops is a good idea is not so true. The cops have to deal with rogue prosecutors as well as the training to get the conviction, regardless of the facts. I also realize that I am not a lawyer and have not read every case that has stare decisis on my case , I will let my lawyer make the call as to what to say.

[@ShawnGS300]

You are correct. Just to add, the police are not your friends, they want to lock you up and put you in jail, that’s what they do. Same thing with the prosecutors.

[@davesbrewing]

@@ShawnGS300 Thank you sir.

[@cosermann]

It can go wrongly for you either way (whether you say nothing, or if you adopt Mas' approach). If you keep your mouth shut, and exculpatory evidence may disappear, and/or favorable witnesses may vanish, etc. that could go against you too. As lawyers love to say, "it depends." There may be NO one-size-fits-all approach.

[@1watersthree]

That’s absolutely correct. You have to say something to establish that you were the victim but never anymore than the absolute bare minimum. The bare minimum would be call 911 and tell them you were in fear for your life, where you are at and to ask for police and paramedics. Don’t say anything beyond that and when the police get there only let them know that you were the victim and you have to let them arrest you otherwise you’ll be guilty of the charge of resisting arrest.

[@Guns.and.Mooneyes]

Thanks Marc.

[@rjtumble]

That fact that shutting up is the standard for police should really be enough of an argument.

[@sudokode]

"Alright, sir, tell us what happened..." *gives coherent summary* "Man, that guy was way too calm." "Put it in the report."

[@MagnumCreed]

Haven’t watched yet, but I’ve been wanting to hear this.

[@InGratitudeIam]

Then there's Paul Harrell's recommendation of taking lots of pictures of people, places and things before the cops arrive, in addition to remaining silent.

[@justindunlap1235]

Then take that sd card and put it in your wallet, because you will end up separated from your phone.

[@ASPextra]

I just can't imagine that's a good idea.

[@justindunlap1235]

Well not its a terrible idea to have a second copy considering things like this happen. This occurred in the county I live in. Where the prosecutor actually hid exonerating evidence from a cell seized after a self defense incident. Link to news story, m.inlander.com/spokane/blame-the-russians/Content?oid=11333979

[@InGratitudeIam]

@@ASPextra I think Paul was recommending that because when he was involved in a defensive shooting, witnesses and evidence disappeared. This way, he had a record of what was there at the time. You do raise a good point about something like that being used against you. In his particular case, Paul wanted to make sure he could prove that the scene he described at the time of the shooting actually existed and his attorney could use it as part of his defense.

[@ASPextra]

I mean, if you're in a remote area, waiting a long time for officers to respond, safe and bad guy is assuming room temperature, I suppose I could see it. Generally in suburbia? Less likely to be a good idea and could be taken as evidence of mens rea.

[@jonb102583]

I think getting Marc and Massad on camera together would be pretty cool to watch.

[@ASPextra]

I agree. Difficult to pull off.

[@jonb102583]

@@ASPextra Promise sammiches...everyone loves sammiches!

[@AndiRose21]

Excellent description of the job description of a CDL. I'm not sure many people really understand what the job of the lawyer is.

[@PPISAFETY]

I have trained with Massad Ayoob and have tremendous respect for him as a use of force expert.. But on this point I think Mas is a little bit out of his lane. I also spent 30 years in law enforcement and never saw a suspect improve his situation by talking. I've seen suspects who didn't actually commit a crime really look like they did just because they are scared. Prosecutors absolutely are not allowed to comment in any way, shape, or form in court on you remaining silent. If you want to see one try and get slapped down by the judge, look at the videos on KZbin of the Kyle Rittenhouse case, and watch prosecutor Thomas Binger get his ass handed to him in open court when he tries to mention this only in passing. The judge is furious. It's a big deal. I've seen this result in a mistrial on the spot. Finally, if you want to see what being helpful to us cops can get you, check out the Michael Drjeka case out of Florida. Drejka is the guy who pulled into his local convenience store, and saw someone parked in a handicapped space without a sticker. The girl inside the car had a back seat full of kids, and was waiting on he boyfriend, Markeis McGlockton who had another child with him inside. Drejka approaches and gets into a discussion with her that she turns into a display of drama. McGlockton, who is younger and stronger, comes up from behind Drejka and pushes him to the ground violently, with no provocation. Drejka draws his Glock 23 and fires one shot into McGlockton's chest from a seated position. McGlockton staggers back into the convenience store where he dies in front of his very young son. The whole event is caught on a security camera. This is arguably a good shoot. Drejka tried to be a good scout. He called the police on himself. He unloaded his Glock and secured it in his vehicle. He led police to the gun immediately. He pointed out the cars of witnesses. He told them generally what had happened and claimed self-defense at the scene. He mentioned that his father had served in the Highway Patrol, but forgot that didn't make him a cop.. He used what he thought were police terms like "21 foot rule" to explain why he fired. And guess what? All of his words were used against him in court. Michael Drejka was convicted of murder and sentenced to 20 years without the possibility of parole. He has already appealed his conviction and already lost. His life as he knew it is essentially over. And, as an added bonus he has already survived an attempted murder by a fellow inmate seeking to avenge his killing of McGlockton. Does any of this sound like fun? No? This is why real defense attorneys tell you to KEEP YOUR DAMNED MOUTH SHUT!

[@apuzyr]

Have you ever covered cases here in New Jersey? Apparently this state is very restricted; not allowing such a legal service.

[@SVTBansheeman]

I wouldn't taken legal advice from an instructor. But that's just me.

[@obsoletevalues6209]

Massad has served as a frequently-summoned expert witness in homicide court cases for 30 years, besides serving for decades in law enforcement as well. It would be interesting to know how many actual firearms-related homicide court cases both experts have participated in.

[@GalileonPrime]

Apples to oranges. Ayoob's video was aimed squarely at the law abiding shooter, who acted in self defense. Ayoob presented a balanced view of police interaction at the scene, being an ex-cop and professional law officer trainer for many years, he has insight into the police mind set that an outsider like this attorney does not. This attorney on the other hand, has to represent both innocent and guilty shooters under similar circumstances, so naturally he has a different agenda. The key thing is, that as a defense attorney, guilt or innocence are only relevant in handling the accused and not in representing him. One of the facts that this attorney is not addressing, is that the officers at the scene can be called as witnesses during a trail and if you piss them off by not assisting with their investigation, it might cause them to describe your attitude at the scene as negative, obstructing and possibly withholding evidence. This might also be mentioned to the States Attorney, who will decide whether to go to trial or not. The fact of the matter is, coming across as a good, honest and concerned citizen who supported the police can forestall any potential problems. Full disclosure: I am in no way connected to law enforcement but, as CCW permit holder the last thing I need is a cop with a negative perception of me.

[@Johnny-dp5mu]

Agree, he wears one hat not two Lawyers with two hats which hat will he wear for you?

[@Steven-rp8zo]

You just characterized yourself and the situation as favorable to you, the defendant. That's assuming too much. The cop or the DA may not see it the same way. Just ask Kyle Rittenhouse. Many innocent men are sitting in prison right now because they assumed positive intent and everyone with a badge is a "good guy" looking for objective justice.

[@vidard9863]

the problem with your theory is you presume that you where correct and all knowing when you pulled the trigger. just because you were right, doesn't mean the evidence won't look like a bad shoot, and just because you were correct doesn't mean that you will explain yourself correctly or the officer will hear you correctly, for example if you *meant* to say " i couldn't get away. " and the officer *hears* " he couldn't get away. " or just *accidentally* wrote it down that way, it is a murder conviction. the key issue is as a lawyer what do you give as legal advice for a situation that hasn't happened yet, that your client will not be the one to choose to initiate? say nothing. that is the only advice that is *always* good. the third problem is the officer may recognize that you are trying to manipulate him by making a good impression while standing over your " victims" dead body, and decide to prove you are a sociopath. just because you *want* to make a good impression does *not* mean you will.

[@jabba0975]

"....if you piss them off by not assisting with their investigation, it might cause them to describe your attitude at the scene as negative, obstructing and possibly withholding evidence." Well then thank goodness for video evidence, when the cops can't destroy it, that shows what actually happened.

[@razorbeard6970]

It doesn't matter what the PD opinion is. If the subject invokes the 5th that fact can't be presented as evidence or suggestion of guilt by the prosecutor or any witness brought forth unless they want a mistrial.

[@mattc1602]

I think it’s horrible that someone will need an attorney when simply defending themselves. I like Marc and think he is right it’s just a shame lawyers, some policemen and judges have gotten us to this point. Damn shame.

[@ASPextra]

Welcome to the litigious society we inhabit...alas.

[@anonanon2614]

It's not a shame, it's vital to our justice system to have two opposing parties, that way we get close to justice

[@mikuspalmis]

@@anonanon2614 Not the point.

[@rationalthinker9181]

Realistically if you shoot someone and you aren't a policeman you are in shit. But one thing I know you can't talk your self out of prison but can talk yourself into it.

[@brandonfisher4436]

Yep Marc was a bit heated about this one and I get it 100%.

[@MurraySellsHomes]

It's so interesting how this relates to family court as well. Pulling the trigger in other ways.

[@stephanie_beth]

I find this and the second interview with Mark Victor incredibly informative. I do love and respect Moss, too.

[@earl240sx]

Thank you John, and Marc, and Massad for providing two very different perspectives on this topic. As someone who considers himself a reasonably intelligent person (yes, that is very open to debate), and like to think of myself as one of the "good guys", I have to believe that the correct answer lies somewhere in between the two given by Marc and Massad. While I do understand that, from the standpoint of defending yourself in court, the less you say the less there is that can be used against you, I do also believe there are times when saying the correct thing can prevent it from getting to that point. Not to mention, there could very well be circumstances where saying nothing could be putting your, the officer's, or other innocent people's lives at risk (e.g. if there were a second attacker who had run off). I will also admit, as someone who sincerely believes that the vast majority of police officers, and prosecutors (well, maybe not quite as high a percentage of prosecutors) are also good people, I probably still have more faith in our law enforcement system than many people, and certainly more than the average defense attorney.

[@SushiArmageddon]

Having more faith in the justice system than a defense attorney seems a naive position to take.

[@waden404]

Prior 15yr deputy. Ayoob's video was good. Really great points. Now, as for Marks response......"is it a good shoot, is it a bad shoot?" That's up to a JURY to figure out. That is NOT up to the LEO responding. Refer the charges to the SAO or arrest. That is about the only thing the LEO can do. I appreciate the angle given from the lawyers perspective. My takeaway,,,,,,,getting a lawyer to discuss a 'what to do' video from his standpoint is gonna have its flaws. Lawyer is thinking about it from HIS training and what happens AFTER THE FACT. This is partly the problem with our culture now. Cops are going to hesitate due to the crap that has happened in the last few years. . One video is explained under the 'citizens hat' and this one is breaking down Ayoobs video from the advocate hat. Tricky situation, at best. Mark DOES have GREAT points here.

[@shadowgarr7649]

Wade, during your 15 years of service, did you encounter any 'bad apples' in law enforcement? If so, what did you do? The general public has seen the results of a bad cop's response. Now many folks don't know if the responding cop is the good guy or not.

[@calvinlong1265]

I had been told to tell the police that I'm going to cooperate, but that (1) I'm not feeling well and want to go to the hospital to get checked out (in my case I'd really need this), and (2) that I don't wave my right to remain silent, and (3) the right to an attorney and to have him/her with me during questioning.

[@johnnyeubanks7657]

You will never go wrong excercising your right to remain silent and your right to an attorney PERIOD!!

[@ASPextra]

That's a fact.

[@CaptVanO]

Mas is a retired cop and a shooting instructor. Great at both. Marc is a lawyer. A great one. I will take shooting advice from Mas but will take legal advice from Mark. No disrespect to Mas.

[@ASPextra]

Not a bad path to walk.

[@shadowgarr7649]

Always wonder when encountering a former cop how many bad cops did he take off the street?

[@zplates]

What about changing Mas's point to point out evidence - to record / note evidence only for *yourself* to share only with your attorney?

[@JT-xe7yi]

There’s a reason why the cops use when they read you your rights the quote “anything you say CAN and WILL be used AGAINST YOU in a court of law” It’s the laws mission to do just that.

[@kathymobley6303]

I appreciated hearing both sides of the debate. I will still remain silent pending counsel but I did make up my mind I will speak up if evidence or witnesses are walking away without being catalogued or identified. (Are you going to let that witness go without getting a name?? Or, that's his knife getting kicked around over there). Except for that - nada. Zip. Name and I want to speak to an attorney

[@andycraddock7677]

I would love to be present during a discussion with John, Mr. Victor and Mr. Ayoob, because I would have a 1000 questions for them, most in the “Yes, ok but what if.....” category. This was fascinating. As always, thanks to John for posting.

[@ASPextra]

You can what if things to death, of course, and it's more fruitful to discuss the principles IMO.

[@andycraddock7677]

Active Self Protection Extra : Agreed, to a point. Even Mr. Victor posed hypothetical scenarios, which is what I meant.

[@elite956]

I'm thinking about signing with Firearms Legal Protection.

[@sonofjesus185]

What about using the phone call the police on speaker and take pictures the scene. Where the subject two went down at? Where subject one fired at like shell casings?

[@johnstack5008]

I don't know but keep mind that the fact that you took pictures may lead to questions that could come up at your trial. Why did you take the pictures? If you were taking pictures, what didn't you take a picture of and why? The prosecution may argue that you were very selective about what pictures to take.

[@cam7105]

I think it really does depend on the kind of cops and area you’re in. A bunch of good ol boy cops in a small town probably are going to be deferential to someone in a SD situation especially if they’re licensed and the situation is somewhat obvious. In a large city that leans towards an unfriendly perspective of guns and ccw’ers then that’s a different scenario and it’s probably wise to keep what you say to a minimum. I also tend to think there’s a balance to be struck here. You want to frame the situation so they immediately know you’re the victim, eg “they came at me with a knife”, “he aimed a gun at me and tried to kill me” and then explain you want to cooperate but you need medical attention first and time to consult a lawyer. Ultimately, this attorney’s job is to make sure you win at trial, Mass’ advice is geared towards keeping you out of court to begin with. For right or wrong, if you refuse to say anything at all you will most assuredly be arrested, fingerprinted, and booked into jail where you will sit until arraignment, and if you’re denied bail, there you will stay until the conclusion of your trial, which could be weeks or months away. It’s possible to give enough information to establish yourself as the victim without talking your way into a murder 2 charge. Refusing to talk will undoubtedly piss off the cops who are not often shy about exercising their authority when that authority is challenged by your refusal to cooperate. Any video of people walking down the street refusing to show ID or answer questions illustrates this.

[@RedRiverRamblings]

Glad to see this video! I really enjoy Mr. Ayoob as an instructor, but I take legal advice from my attorney.

[@muddyhobbs8543]

Like said depending the case

[@jefferypeterson2119]

I understand what the lawyer says. Whoever in reality people will come to a preconceived idea or feeling regardless what jury instructions are. You cant not unheard what is heard. People will still hold bias based on what is heard even though they may be told not to.. people are people.

[@alanhelgeson690]

The very best legal advice I have ever received is Always keep your mouth shut and lawyer up ! As soon as possible !

[@FINfinFINfinFINfin]

Strange world when an off duty Brazilian Cop video gets 100 times more views than this video.

[@ASPextra]

Ugh! So true!!

[@Dmv216661]

Please do a full podcast like JRE but with lawyers, and defensive shooters, and self defense guys and stuff. Something free form in the same way as joe rogans podcast where you dont set out to talk about specifics neccisarily unless something big happened. I'd listen in a HEARTBEAT

[@Treblaine]

"the jury are instructed they cannot make any negative inference from silence" Meanwhile, in the UK: "yes jury, you absolutely can infer guilt from excercising their right to silence and we strongly suggest you do. How dare someone actually try to use their right the one time they need it."

[@lukenordvick1861]

I guess I’ll go with massad and Andrew Branca. Did this guy jut say not to be the first one to call the police?

[@gotruut9145]

There is a reason Miranda give you the right to remain silent. The police are not your friend.

[@kennethwilgers9684]

I think what Mr. Ayoob was trying to convey is what we all see when we watch the Dateline and 20/20 cases. All too often, the police get a first impression and run with it, and when they present it to the prosecutor, that office follows suit. He isn't so much worried about if the prosecutor is going to bring up the defendant's silence in court, because they aren't allowed to. He is trying to get the heat off of the shooter BEFORE any significant target is put on him or her. A smug response or no response by the shooter can prejudice the investigators, causing a great deal of stress, effort and expense to the shooter, whether or not there is a guilty verdict. If the officers get a favorable first experience with the shooter, it could mean a much easier road for the shooter, with no charges filed in the first place. I'm no expert. I'm just pointing out that Mr. Ayoob is arguing oranges and Mr. Victor is rebutting the argument with apples.

[@johnstack5008]

if it's clearly a good shoot, it looks like it doesn't really matter if you remain silent or not. You're not worried about being charged for anything. However, if it could be perceived as a questionable shoot, everything I'm hearing is that you should remain silent. But Mr. Ayoob is telling you to speak when the shoot could be perceived as questionable. He's not just going against Mark Victor, but pretty much every criminal defense attorney.

[@chord972]

Excellent. Thank you.

[@patrickkelly7838]

A. You deal with people who are 95+% guilty. B From a cops view point a Brief explanation of what happened, sets the tone for all future acts during the investigation. C. The cops opinion is 90% of what the prosecutors view of the incident. D. if you are justified, the evidence will support you and you will be ruled justified. However, talking to an attorney is wise before giving a complete statement.

[@janneskruger001]

Can't argue with Marc's viewpoint. With great respect to Massad, most people in a situation like that are bound to say stupid things. Better to shut up as a blanket rule. Especially in South Africa where the law states that you are automatically a murder suspect if you kill someone, no matter the circumstances.

[@FisherCatProductions]

Apples and oranges. I might agree...if I were in South Africa. Neither man can give a universal answer. Hard enough to answer to USA law--which is what they are speaking about.

[@askunz1]

It would be great to have a video on the FISH case in AZ - got the burden of proof shifted. Very interesting facts. Very instructive.

[@ASPextra]

Yes but also no, and while the law changed because of Harold Fish, that didn't help Harold out at all.

[@askunz1]

@@ASPextra Yes I know. I think that case if very instructive to defenders. How the prosecutor made an issue out of the Delta Elite. I'd love to hear real reporting and analysis on it.

[@muddyhobbs8543]

Told you so

[@johnwow4u]

Good show

[@baccable]

Great discussion gentlemen.

[@crusader4273]

At the end of the day or night depending on what circumstances ypu are faced with, when it comes to a matter of self defense and or a life ending situation...stop the threat. You have a constitutional law protecting you. It's called the 2nd ammendment.

[@LifeUnlocker]

1:45 3:00 4:00 6:00 9:00 12:00 why remain silent 13:00 good shoot 14:00

[@shimy333]

Ayoob seems to be always assuming it is self defense and a "good shooting" a criminal defense Lawyer would disagree because he KNOWINGLY takes cases where it is a "bad shooting"..

[@ASPextra]

I do think that the difference matters.

[@shadowgarr7649]

Ayoob assumes all cops are 'good' cops.

[@docbryant]

I was very much looking forward to hearing a response to Mr Ayoob's video but instead got an interesting legal tete a tete that didn't really address the original issue at all. Perhaps that's why it is "Part 1." Perhaps just having Mr Victor address the issue without a co-host would have allowed him to be more succinct.

[@Steven-rp8zo]

he's telling you to keep your big mouth shut until you have a chance to talk to a lawyer, how much more simple do you need it?

[@arumatai]

sorry but layers aren't nopartisan in this matter. actually it's their bread and butter for the case to go to trial. so if you got a few ten thousands too many dollars... take all the layers advice if money is no concern.

[@ASPextra]

Yes and no. They get paid to help clients win their cases.

[@jeffcj]

Interesting...

[@yuenkwai]

Ive been in that situation where cops dictated what they wanted.

[@chrisalister2297]

That's why it's best to say as little as possible. They can't give opinion as testimony.

[@fineartonfire_5327]

If y’all woulda listened to Mass, he clearly said DONT make a statement!!!! He said to agree to cooperate through your attorney AND AFTER you’ve spoke to your attorney!!!

[@ASPextra]

To be fair, that is *not* what Mas says. He says to make his 5 point statement, the last of which is that you will cooperate after consulting counsel.

[@williamrunner6718]

Great advice!

[@dayjo325]

Massad never said to have diarrhea of the mouth.

[@gregoryrogalsky6937]

Massad is coming at it from a law enforcement who is involved with shoot.. Not a civilian . He has never been in a court where he shot someone as a civilian,

[@firedrake7179]

THANK YOU JOHN!!!!! Many of us were really wanting to see this. You crack dealer now...

[@paraAA82]

John...very good video...Well, it depends if you root for Mass or for Marc...

[@obliviox]

Its johns briefs > 🩲

[@TheAndysim66]

Much better look minus the vest!!

[@miker1721]

How many self defense cases has Marc Victor defended? How many cases has Masaad Ayoob defended/prosecuted/served as an expert and material witness for?

[@Nimbus495]

Turn your phone on & video everything.

[@annaaron3510]

Listen to Mr. Shakespeare about lawyers.

[@CitizenCarrier]

Really? He didn’t say what you are referring to. He wrote it as a line by Dick The Butcher, a ruthless killer in his story Henry VI. Do you really have that hard of a time separating reality from fiction? I’ll listen to the lawyer on this point. You listen to Massad Ayoob. Seek help.

[@annaaron3510]

@@CitizenCarrier No reality C².

[@munkandbear2818]

The prosecuting attorney does not care about justice or truth only conviction!

[@ASPextra]

I think that's overly cynical, honestly.

[@fumanpoo4725]

Other than routine booking questions, say nothing. Specifically say you want a lawyer. Police and prosecutors are not your friend. Neither are defense attorneys, but at least they work for you.

[@MrRdvs87]

Can you talk more on how the right to remain silent can’t be viewed with suspicion? A lot of gun people have a very contemptuous view of the 4th and 5th amendments.

[@ASPextra]

In the actual trial, it cannot be used against you. I, for one, am a big fan of ALL of the Bill of Rights.

[@mannyaguilar67]

@@ASPextra Exactly. Can not even be brought up by the district attorney. They can't even mention that you decided not to talk when the cops arrived. To shut up is your right and can't be used against you. If the DA brings it up it could be grounds for a mistrial (with or without prejudice).

[@shadowgarr7649]

And they are wrong. The 4th and 5th works for them as well.

[@tedberwick3186]

WOW

[@JamesHoward-ee5kd]

They keep using the term "criminal defense attorney". By its very apparent definition wouldn't that be an attorney defending a criminal? Well, if you're not a criminal and don't want to be perceived as a criminal wouldn't hiring a thus titled person establish a definition of the defendant? I can see hiring an attorney to help craft statements but isn't their money interest in dragging this into court for more billing hours?

[@ASPextra]

"Criminal defense attorney" is a shorthand way of saying "an attorney specializing in representing the defendant in criminal court rather than civil court." Hence Criminal. Defense. Attorney.

[@JamesHoward-ee5kd]

@@ASPextra Thanks for the clarification. So a criminal defense attorney would be the one to help craft carefully worded statements that reflect an accurate truthful set of facts from the incident. Thanks.

[@ExceptionalPleb]

@3:05 Lawyers defend mostly guilty people, so they'll have you act like a guilty perp. Ayoobs advice will only work for righteous people.

[@leandropaige6746]

Leave it to a lawyer to argue a point made by Massod, He said most cases it was a bad shoot. Has he ever been directly involved with cops investigating his actions. I have and Its sound advice. Unless preserving evidence will convict you, because bad shoot. And in any case invoke your rights by UCC 1-308. You have to read and understand this Code, and establish it asap.

[@muddyhobbs8543]

I'm not allowed elaborate who is the right in experience

[@mcsupersport]

Prosecutors are supposed to seek justice, all too many of them nowadays seek convictions. Sadly I don't see this changing anytime seen.

[@Robert-re5vk]

In Ct

[@17thwhiteprince]

I wanted more 😁

[@SouthParkCows88]

Well Massad point was its defense attorneys telling you these things, so yeah. To each his own, hopefully most people wont need this advice eitherway.

[@T59-j7k]

yeah he is the guy that gets a drunk or murderer off on a technicality....

[@onespeedlite]

If the police assumes you are guilty or have something to hide simply for asserting your right to remain silent and to speak to an attorney, then you REALLY shouldn't be talking with that police officer. You shouldn't be expected to prove that you are innocent. It's the prosecutor's job to prove that you are guilty. A person wouldn't go to an attorney for firearm advice, so I wouldn't expect anyone to go to a firearm expert to get law advice.

[@rodeosound]

Ahhh cmon ayoob is giving us a best practice guideline which id much rather be armed with than nothing at all

[@jackreisewitz7219]

Consider: When a cop shoots someone, the brothers in blue rally around him, give moral support in this time of profound stress for any normal human being, shield him from news reporters or anyone wanting to question him, automatically assume he is in the right and generally mobilize the power of the law enforcement community to protect him. In addition, he is by law allowed greater latitude to act in what he believes is self defense without having to answer for his actions than a private citizen is. When you are forced to act in self defense, the boys in blue are not there to rally around you, or give you morale/emotional support in this time of profound stress and trauma. They are not automatically looking on you as being the good guy. They have no intention of trying to protect you from being questioned, or prosecuted. Instead they begin to mobilize the power of the law enforcement community, with an eye Toward YOUR Prosecution and Conviction. They seek to take advantage of this time of extreme Anxiety, stress, and trauma to immediately begin questioning you, in the hopes of getting you to say something that CAN and WILL Be Used Against You in a court of law. They automatically approach the entire situation from the perspective that you are in the wrong, and they're looking for a path to Prosecution. In addition, in many states, your right to act in self defense is highly compromised, and you can be charged with a crime that the police will never need to worry about. Remember: The job of the police is not to determine guilt and innocence. That is the burden of the court. The job of the police is to gather evidence to present before a court of law TO BE USED IN YOUR PROSECUTION. That's it. That's all. So that's what they do. And they are freely allowed to lie to, and deceive you in pursuit of this goal. What more do you need to know to be extremely cautious, and remain silent as soon as/and as much as possible?? Personally, I will never believe that living in a civilized society, with an organized law enforcement structure, does, in any way mean I have surrendered in any degree, my right to act in self defense or the defense of others.

[@ASPextra]

I would take exception to several assertions in your first paragraph. That said, your second and beyond still have merit.

[@jackreisewitz7219]

Taking exception has no merit unless accompanied with meritous reason to do so. Private citizens are never dealt with by the police in the same way as the police deal with each other. Neither are citizens given the same respect, and confidence in their integrity that the police automatically give to one another. If you want to take exception with reality, I can't stop you.

[@flydye45]

You might get a Portland or NJ DA, in which case, they want to make you a lesson, whether you say anything or not.

[@thebotformalityknownasdale2564]

If you are protecting your rites and the police are honestly looking to be open-minded they will never have a problem with you not wanting talk to them without your lawyer. Why do they not want a lawyer there?

[@harrymusgrave2131]

About 3/4 into your video I stopped. Very little content. The last 1/4 must have had all the information?

[@miked.7722]

cops do not like someone who won't talk to them at all. Not saying you should verbally vomit everything to them, but you shouldn't just clam up and refuse to talk to the cops at all, (nor should you make a full statement) unless they give you good reason not to. What could be said is as soon as my lawyer gets here I'll be happy to talk to you, especially if you feel what happened might be in a gray area.

[@craigcicerello4289]

The best case scenario is not I win in court, but that no charges were ever filed. The best case is, the cops leave convinced I was justified and that is what their report says. 'Thank you Mr Cicerello, sorry this happened, we will now leave you in peace and we will send someone later to remove this trash from your floor.' Set the tone and frame the question up front. I was the victim, he was the assailant. 'I felt my life/health/safety threatened and unfortunately had to defend myself. I'm too stressed and not able to answer questions right now. But, I will do so later after speaking with my attorney.' I want the first impression to be that I am the physically and emotionally shaken victim and will talk later, not the shady dude with a smoking gun and a dead body. And, who bruskly refuses to speak, seems to be hiding something and won't say anything until lawyered up. 'I aint saying nothing until my lawyer gets here'.

[@HitechProductions]

If you refuse to say anything you will be arrested and need an attorney. They have a financial stake in you saying nothing. ;)

[@ASPextra]

Not necessarily true, but I know what you mean.

[@HitechProductions]

@@ASPextra In almost all cases it would be true. There are very few situations where you could refuse to talk to the police after shooting someone and not be arrested. 😏

[@ASPextra]

There is a better than average chance you’ll be arrested or at least taken into custody after a shooting not matter what. So anything you say can and will be used against you. Why not wait for a professional to assist you through the process

[@HitechProductions]

@@ASPextra Interesting, what percentage of those who give a statement are arrested?

[@BrokenBarBox]

Around minute 3:25 says it all. If you’re a bad person who just did a bad thing, shut up. If you’re a good person who didn’t break the law then you can follow Massad’s advice and cooperate with the other good guys involved in this incident. Simple.

[@gregb6469]

How will a civilian who is not a criminal lawyer know whether he did or did not break the law? In some jurisdictions a victim who in any way resists a criminal attack violates the law by so doing. In some jurisdictions the mere pulling a gun out, even if you don't fire it, is a violation of the law. In some jurisdictions the cops and the DAs automatically assume that any use of a gun in self-defense is a violation of the law, and will arrest and prosecute, no matter how righteous the shoot.

[@BrokenBarBox]

@@gregb6469 can you please cite these laws you’re referring to? Like pulling a gun in a defensive situation is actually a violation? In my state it’s a violation if you’re doing it to scare someone else, usually during the commission of a crime. It’s called menacing. Pointing a gun at another person to defend yourself or a third party from the use or imminent use of deadly physical force or serious bodily injury is not illegal. Just curious what state made the unholstering of a weapon a crime regardless of your intentions or during a legitimate self defense event?

[@gregb6469]

@@BrokenBarBox -- Take a look at the laws in some blue states and cities. If it is illegal to carry a weapon, then it would most certainly be illegal to pull it out of concealment.

[@BrokenBarBox]

@@gregb6469 I live in a blue state and it’s legal to carry a gun with a permit, and it’s also legal to unholster and use said weapon in defense of your person. In your first post you said how would a person who is not a lawyer know if they broke the law. I’m not a lawyer, but I can assure you I know what is and is not against the law. My suggestion would be if you don’t know the laws regarding carrying a weapon and when you can use one, you should not be carrying a gun. It would be like driving and not knowing anything about traffic laws. You have a responsibility to learn the laws and you don’t need to be a lawyer to do so.

[@jameszander6805]

@@BrokenBarBox state to state it depends. Maryland is use of defensive force must be equal or less. Brandishing to try to stop an offensive harm approach may very well get you charged with a 3rd degree felony. Understand the state you are in. Some are anything but pro 2A

[@bencruz563]

Isn't it hard to give a good first impression with a dead body in your house? I mean, I can think of better first impressions.

[@Robert-re5vk]

Can’t get that protection

[@ASPextra]

Talk to your legislators.

[@nathant3897]

I think the prosecutor of rittenhouse trial heard this just to bring up Kyle pleading the fifth smh I wish the judge would have jumped on him in front of the jury and he should have they crossed the line way too many times

[@muddyhobbs8543]

Don't try lie to me