Shadiversity's Impossible Standards For Women

[@sbushido5547]

_"She looks older in the second one!"_ Yes, I'm pretty sure that's literally how time works. In a sequel, characters will be older. [suprisedpikachu] _"We believe that there are objective beauty standards."_ Well, congratulations on being objectively wrong, idiots...

[@bloodywilliam3083]

They’re “objective” standards are awful since they probably also think Ellen Ripley, Beverly Crusher, and Sarah Conner aren’t hot either.

[@sbushido5547]

@@bloodywilliam3083 It's funny that considering Ripley is like...one of the 3 "acceptable" female characters they only ever mention, you know for a fact that if Alien came out for the first time today, she would be condemned like all the rest. Not sure how anyone could consider Crusher not hot, though. Maybe that's just my bias speaking. ;)

[@bloodywilliam3083]

@@sbushido5547 I’m saying that because they don’t like middle aged moms.

[@DarksideGmss0513]

​@@sbushido5547same can be said about Star Trek Next Generation. Imagine if that came out for the first time today people would hate it.

[@cristalido3640]

Objective beauty standards do exist, there's a reason why most men and women are attracted to specific features of the opposite sex (generally speaking, of course).

[@dakotastevens8]

It didn't have to be like this, Shad. You could have just kept talking about castles and swords.

[@christophergreen6595]

He was so wholesome... Sigh.

[@shihsntz5301]

Right!!! I really liked those days then he started being Sargon lite.

[@Ktmfan450]

It was inevitable really Seventh Day Adventism

[@anothervagabond]

I mean he was wrong about castles and swords pretty often too, but at least when you're wrong about castles and swords you're not being a raging asshole, just a little silly.

[@hornylink]

@@anothervagabond yeah when you're wrong about castles and swords in 2023 you're not causing actual harm to real people. (being wrong about castles in swords in the 1600s though, oof that's a lotta people ded)

[@chillinsquirtle]

Aint it wild that shad isnt attracted to middle aged moms when he has a wife in her 30s with kids? Poor woman and poor kids

[@unreasonablyagreeable1081]

Can't wait to see homie's divorced dad arc. Mfs like this never stay married because their partners become miserable

[@chillinsquirtle]

@@unreasonablyagreeable1081 idk mormon life might keep her stuck to him

[@kakyointhemilfhunter4273]

​@@unreasonablyagreeable1081Actually he's Mormon where it's frowned upon to get a divorce

[@thereccher8746]

30s isn't middle aged. Edit: Actually thinking about it anything over 25 counts as "middle aged" to these creeps so never mind.

[@autobotstarscream765]

​@@thereccher8746Ah yes, ye olde "Christmas cake theory". Merry Christmas!

[@lady_draguliana784]

In the book Shad wrote, the MC r4p3d HUNDREDS of "women" (girls of 14) then, as an old exile, is rewarded with turning back into a teenager and gaining god-like magic powers... that's how the story STARTS.

[@kenlee4356]

Holy s*it is this real!?

[@scrollkeeper5272]

Oh fuck I'm so glad I never bought that garbage. What you described is literally the synopsis to some of the worst hentai to ever exist.

[@yishnir]

Hmm. Disturbing parallels to Bill Barr's father's 'book'.

[@fee6362]

@@kenlee4356 yes it is. Pls don't buy it. a lot of people have reviewed it , here on youtube. If you are interested pls look for one of them. And also, it get even worse.

[@autobotstarscream765]

​@scrollkeeper5272 An _underage_ teenager, so...yeah, your comparison checks out. 😂

[@GeteMachine]

Peter Parker's inability to hold a relationship with Mary Jane because he's Spiderman literally has nothing to do with how hot she is, its about how he cant balance both identities with her in the dark about it. What does MJ being hot-or-not matter if he cant have a relationship with her regardless? You can tell these guys project and cope hard with Peter Parker.

[@unreasonablyagreeable1081]

And it's fucking fiction. Dudes have never touch actual grass without their goofy ass armor on

[@Dreigonix]

Nah, it’s about how the writers won’t _let_ him be happy with MJ because they think he won’t be relatable if he’s in a stable relationship. I still haven’t forgiven Marvel for One More Day.

[@DarksideGmss0513]

​@@Dreigonix I understand where you're coming from with that but to me at least I think his hardship is part of what makes him. And part of that hard ship is never truly getting the girl.

[@LeadMetal82]

@@DarksideGmss0513 See, that's the problem. Hardships in life is the core of Spider-man, but there's one thing missing from modern SM stories. Growth. Ever since OMD, Spider-man has been in a constant loop of putting his life back together, only for another writer to bring it all down, it's like his character never moves on beyond that broke college kid, even though he's pretty much almost if not over 30 at this point. It's extremely tiring to have him date MJ, almost get married, get a good paying job, etc, and then for some inexplicable reason, Marvel changes the writer and shit on all of that development. It's why many people hate Zeb Wells run. It damn near feels like character assassination at some point. This feels like it's been done a dozen times now and it's extremely tiring to see, and infuriating to boot. They can't make him a married man with a stable job, because they're really afraid of losing the relatability, even though hardships can come in all shapes and sizes too, even when you've put your life together.

[@inker_G]

"Does he have sex scenes in his book?" 😅. Dude, his lead character rapes something like hundreds of minors. I didn't go through the whole book, but there's more than enough sexual content. The lead character kills another Character (his own unbeknownst son btw) by shoving a pole in to his ass. It's all kind of problematic, and you're asking if it has sex scenes.

[@edwinrollins142]

"The story is about Spider-Man beating up bad guys, it's not a romcom" Mfer is not even a fan of Spider-Man, then, and apparently hasn't read much of the actual comic, because Peter Parker's relationships, with his friends, family, coworkers, and especially with Mary Jane, is a HUGE part of the actual comic. If anything, the superhero stuff can actually even be regarded as more of a backdrop over which the characters' relationships and life stories are explored.

[@bubbachildsupport4535]

Facts 😂 these dudes don’t actually read comics bro

[@KissMyConverseFool]

yeah, the whole overarching theme of spider man is the tension between his hero life and his personal life. It's like they think comics are just ...image/mcfarlane comics from the late 90s

[@FrozEnbyWolf150]

In terms of media literacy, conservatives see all stories as moving from Point A to Point B. Any story elements they feel get in the way of that linear progression are considered a waste of time. This is why they often whine about minority representation, because in their minds, it doesn't contribute to the advancement of the plot. Never mind that who a character is and how the world treats them have a huge impact on their relationships, development, and what drives them to pursue their goals.

[@julietfischer5056]

@@FrozEnbyWolf150- And, by extension, affects the plot. White Character and Black Character will respond differently to events based on their life experiences. Add in sex, gender identity, sexual orientation, religion, more details on their cultures, and the stories become better and richer. Except to readers who want their Aryan superdudes.

[@lady_draguliana784]

they only know the 90's cartoons tho, and that's all of our problems now...

[@weber4760]

"Don't get triggered and take this personally," says the man yelling about how this video game character personally attacks him.

[@ToxicAudri]

Just wait till he starts crying about "white genocide" as all fascists eventually do.

[@diamond_dynamo2214]

the idea that Spider-Man doesn't shouldn't be about relationship drama is so funny to me. that's literally always been the case. the whole reason Spider-Man (and Marvel in general) got popular was because he was a person with real people issues, not just an untouchable god doing superhero things. to say that melodrama takes away from the Spider-Manness of a story tells me you know fucking *nothing* about Spider-Man

[@KissMyConverseFool]

it's literally the first tension, the first major decision, in the series: does he use his powers for popularity, fame, and money or does he use them to be an anonymous good Samaritan. Can he do this while keeping people like mary jane, may, and gwen stacy safe? Can he have a normal life? And spider man is like, the OG book that played with these tropes. The golden/sliver age heros usually became full time heros, worked for the government, or were wealthy like the shadow or batman. Peter was working class, he was an orphan living with relatives, he wasn't popular. One of stan lee's orginal tags for the character was "wall flower to wal climber"

[@ExtremeMadnessX]

Even Superman is best when it is not just him doing superhero stuff but trying to balance that with his everyday life and relationships.

[@MagnaOmerta]

"Middle aged moms are hot" Amen! "Middle aged moms are hot" hallelujah! "Middle aged moms are hot" Praise be!

[@drichardbailey]

Shad being a mormon just made his whole thing make sense.

[@Nuvizzle]

You really have to be a shitty person to be a Mormon outside of the US. US Mormons are mostly just indoctrinate into the cult as children, outside of the US you have to TRY to get in.

[@cegesh1459]

It was not a secret and it showed before.

[@shadowednight1600]

A Mormon and a moron. This is going to be a blow for people wanting to learn history, because this fool is stapled to so much weapon history that I doubt people will want to learn. We need someone to take Shad's place ASAP

[@АртёмДубравин-ы6у]

Can you explain? I never met a mormon and i have no idea what they act like

[@Vercanya]

@@cegesh1459 How? Mormon's are a minority in Europe so I wrote him off as a typical misogynistic a-hole.

[@Pensive_Scarlet]

If you've seen the comparison of the in-game faces with the "fan made ideal", it becomes obvious that they just want women's faces to show no signs of variance, age, etc. They also just buy wholesale into pretty privilege, despite sometimes claiming it as a social ill. Like, look at how they react to that that homely girl from the new Fable. They want to enforce their personal standards on women, but they always fall short when it comes to male appearance. They'll pay lip service to generic muscle man physiques in super hero stuff, but when a character like Trevor from GTA shows up, they don't go on a tirade about how he's not perfectly buff with a full head of hair and a jawline that can cut nipples.

[@ArDeeMee]

„Cut nipples.“ 😱 WHY did you have to phrase it like that, goddammit!

[@Pensive_Scarlet]

@@ArDeeMee It's a play on the phrase "nipples so hard they can cut glass". I was gonna say "glass", then I thought I'd be goofy at the end of my serious comment. ;D

[@ArDeeMee]

@@Pensive_Scarlet Ok, that phrase is new to me… Thanks for clarifying. ^^

[@walexander8378]

That is a good point. Its almost like they want to know their video game girls are the top tier harlots that will reject them for Chad. Like cucks

[@cocobutter3175]

Anyone who studies history has to know that there aren't objective beauty standards. I mean, shaving your hairline so you had a five-head and no eyebrows, used to be the epitome of sexy, c'mon! What's considered beautiful changes across time and culture as often as fashion.

[@kakyointhemilfhunter4273]

When was the shaved head and eyebrow considered attractive? Genuinely curious

[@cocobutter3175]

@@kakyointhemilfhunter4273 During the Elizabeth era, when Queen Elizabeth the 1st reigned. Sometime in the later 1500's. They wanted a big forehead.

[@Alexandraadftxr7052]

List of things that was seen actractiv in women during history, please feel free to ad: -Body fat, and body rolls (this can be seen perfectly on one antient Greek statue of Aphrodite) -Pale skinn -Small feet -Long neck -Dark/black teeth -Blond hair -Big foreheads -No eyebrows -Unibrows

[@cocobutter3175]

@@Alexandraadftxr7052 here's more: 18th century France: double chin and dimpled rosy cheeks Medieval Japan: weird dot-shaped eyebrows painted high up in the forehead, and tiny rosebud lips (whereas we like big full lips now) Victorian Era: looking like you were dying from tuberculosis was considered beautiful 1990's: looking like you were dying from heroin was considered beautiful... I just thought that was weird how being sick was the look during both the 1890's and the 1990's. Being slim was beautiful in the 1920's, 1990's, and several times throughout history, then other times, an hourglass figure was the epitome of beauty, and then at other times, being rubenesque was beautiful. It's so interesting how our ideals of beauty change based on culture, social norms, leaders, celebrities, and events, like wars or epidemics.

[@emmareiman64]

Exactly! Things change so drastically throughout ages and cultures. This is common sense, it should be at least I don't think he even understands what he's saying. I think what he's trying to say is 'people have preferences' and that's it. But you know what? I don't know if he understands that everyone is different. In his world, you're either like him or you shouldn't be allowed to exist because you're 'stupid and in denial'. Man is a delusional narcissist

[@RagnarLodbrok1]

There's a part of me thinking I should try dressing in Medieval Latin European clothing and then doing Breadtube style videos. I think the cognitive dissonance that would be created by promoting stuff like trans rights in semi-accurate Hospitaller kit would be hilarious.

[@azuredystopia3751]

I will watch.

[@cocobutter3175]

I fully support this.

[@bleakautomaton4808]

Cool

[@Dazyhead]

Please, I would love that

[@kendradehnert8786]

Do it

[@Ghee_Buttersnaps]

Imagine one of their teenage daughters watching one of these videos 5 - 10 years from now 😶

[@unreasonablyagreeable1081]

They're Mormons evidently, so don't expect them to allow their female children to watch television. Gotta keep them pure and whatnot

[@callsignapollo_]

He's already talked about how he "has to be careful to not play the woke disney stuff" with his daughter. He's already deciding what she's gonna be allowed to learn about lol

[@DarksideGmss0513]

Shad is a father of 5. So I can imagine.

[@akashajones6079]

​@@unreasonablyagreeable1081 Ex mormon here, you're being stupid

[@Kermit-The-Smaug]

The funny thing about attraction is that attraction is subjective. Different people will find different things/people attractive. People can be hot without being attractive. You not being attracted to someone/something is a you problem not a them problem.

[@jacobjohnston3983]

This trend of gamer bros searching frame-by-frame through a video of a female character, finding the most unflattering image, and then posting it everywhere, spinning it off into a whole culture war talking point is actually deranged. You’ll notice that these people ONLY SHARE ONE IMAGE of her. Like “we found a single frame where her face looks kinda off: therefore she is hideously ugly in entirety and this is part of a deliberate plot by the evil WOKE to make all women unattractive”

[@GeteMachine]

Thats pretty much bs they do on twitter.

[@KissMyConverseFool]

also like...there's porn. you can just go jerk it to porn. Digging through games for hotness is like...the sears catalog of our generation.

[@SoFarSoGoodSoWhat14]

Lmao right, remember how mad they were about that high res pic of Aloy from Horizon, she had little tiny hairs on her face that you can only see close up, just like real women do, and they were absolutely livid lmao

[@FrozEnbyWolf150]

The anti-SJWs did the exact same thing with the "angry feminist" whose picture they've used a million times. Yet if you go back and listen to the source video, she was having a pretty calm and nuanced conversation. She just happens to have a very expressive face, which makes it easy to take an unflattering image out of context. I could just as easily take frames from that Trump supporter crying over his 2020 election loss and say all Trump supporters look and act like her. Or, you know, any photo taken on January 6th.

[@anothervagabond]

@@SoFarSoGoodSoWhat14 In their defense this was a *huge* surprise, as none of them have ever actually seen a woman that close before.

[@freyavalon]

I think the actual problem all these types are running into is that the pixel-women have gotten more detailed. To the point where they look like actual people. And it's much harder to project their own fantasies and desires unto a figure that their brains are registering as an actual person, and not just a lifeless doll. So they want the glamour-makeup facetune look, precisely because it doesn't actually look like real people, so they don't have to think of them as more than sex objects.

[@aerrae5608]

I mean, there are porn games they can play if they really want that.

[@callsignapollo_]

​@aerrae5608 but dont you get it? If every video game woman isnt personally designed to be attractive to shad the WOKE LEFTIES are gonna win the culture war! /s

[@meatpuppet5036]

You don't understand the issue and its very obvious.

[@Kingcrimson_1456]

@@meatpuppet5036Let me guess something about esg

[@fee6362]

@@aerrae5608 he is Mormon he can't watch porn. Well.. his religion doesn't allow it. He can obliviously.

[@BigQ52]

Modern AAA games use "face models" for their main characters to match the realism of the graphics around them. MJ looks like a good looking person you would see irl, because she most likely looks nearly identical to a model/actress who was 3d scanned and modeled into the game. This is jarring to guys like Shad who have never interacted with a real woman.

[@SoFarSoGoodSoWhat14]

Their whole taste in women is based on porn and 2D girls

[@julietfischer5056]

Shad has kids, so he has interacted with at least one real woman. In the context of Mormonism.

[@unreasonablyagreeable1081]

​​@@julietfischer5056 so he's never interacted with a real woman. Got it.

[@unreasonablyagreeable1081]

​@@julietfischer5056 just because a guy spawns a couple children doesn't mean his partner is having an orgasm. 😂 Ben Shapiro dry humped his wife and got 2 kids out of it

[@bloodywilliam3083]

These people probably think Beverly Crusher, Ellen Ripley, and Sarah Conner aren’t hot, since they only like generic anime waifus.

[@JTfromVT]

Man went from reviewing swords to posting incel content and budding up with Sargon

[@tsukikage]

And talking about how weapons and armor actually worked in their historical practical contexts, and that was fun.

[@JTfromVT]

@@tsukikage easier days. He should have stuck to his niche

[@mrshittles9424]

God, I hope he ditches Sargon. He's made several nuanced, reasonable points on his swords channel, even relating to cultural issues. Flee the evil of Sargon! Flee Shad! Imagine Sargon with devil horns and run away!

[@JTfromVT]

@@mrshittles9424 I doubt he will with how he discussed their talk on Twitter

[@mrshittles9424]

@@JTfromVT crap.

[@Nuvizzle]

Dude is sitting there next to a guy saying "Actually I disagree I have different tastes than you and find the new Mary Jane more aesthetically pleasing" and still trying to insist there are objective beauty standards. Meanwhile his buddy can't really do anything but sit there and nod along because nobody knows who he even is, he's just "one of the other guys on Shad's podcast".

[@masterpink6963]

I feel sorry for him

[@DanDanDoe]

And he’s an employee, not just a friend or something. He’s not sitting there as a peer of Shad.

[@takke9830]

These guys are really good at showing us how insignifigant their problems are if they make a podcast being mad at virtual women not hot enough for them that if existing irl would be totally out of their league.

[@rustnok12]

Lmao

[@FitzyCify]

Does Shad unironically think Miguel was in the right in _Across the Spiderverse_ ? Because I'm definitely getting that vibe with his aversion to "subversive" storytelling.

[@shadowednight1600]

If he does, then dear lord that's another knock against him.

[@games_on_phone89]

you'd be surprised by how many idiots genuinely think miguel was right

[@nathandoyle625]

She looks older in the newer game where she is older? Strange.

[@autobotstarscream765]

Mary Jane doesn't have eternal youth!? *MEPHISTO LIED TO US!* 😈

[@DanDanDoe]

How dare women age!

[@ghengis423]

Looking into this

[@-kurow-7113]

These dudes would watch evangelion and complain about how the dialogues scenes are boring because they came for the giant robots fights.

[@julietfischer5056]

Even though Evangelion takes apart the 'Golly gee-whiz neato!' of children piloting war machines. Which they'd miss because they'd be too busy whining about how it's 'anti-Christian' (all that Christian and Kabbalah imagery, plus the 'Angels').

[@autobotstarscream765]

And yet where were they when Sam's parents got high on weed brownies and Bumblebee peed on Agent Simmons?

[@ExtremeMadnessX]

Also Gundam.

[@helenn6551]

I have to tear into Shad's take on the Peter/MJ relationship struggle. It isn't just a 'nerdy guy can't get the hot girl cause hero'. It's Peter having to balance being a superhero with being there for the woman he loves. Often that is shown with her being an actress/model/flashy job cause it puts her on a pedestal while giving her a possible place to get attention he can't provide. And the fact they both put in the effort to make their relationship work is why it's so good to watch them be together

[@autobotstarscream765]

Until Shadphisto intervenes...

[@rcarfang2]

Peter also have multiple girlfriends. He's a Nerdy CHAD XD

[@flamemasterelan]

Also, it really must be said that "Peter getting with the hot girl" was never the conflict for Peter. Aunt May tried to set Peter up with Mary Jane very early on, but he was more interested in Gwen Stacy, who was...shockingly, not a model. It wasn't until after Gwen died that Peter and MJ started to bond and Peter developed feelings for her. This was never a story of the "geek getting the dream girl," like Shad insists. Because Shad knows *nothing* about this character.

[@Pensnmusic]

The professional headshot looks better than the video games? Oo00oo!11!! How could this be???

[@SilverDragonJay]

specifically: the headshot looks better then a mid-conversation screen shot (rendered in-engine) of a character who is designed to be 'average' looking who is, at best, wearing minimal makeup. wowzers!

[@phoenixheart79]

Can we not do the 'he likes guys' shit as an insult? The dudes misogynistic ideals of what constitutes attractive women are more than enough to take the piss out of without sinking to a level he'd happily engage on.

[@FrozEnbyWolf150]

That and all the gay men I know respect women, and are staunch trans allies.

[@darkshadowrule2952]

Yeah, like guys like him don't like women, I don't get why they even pursue them when they have a perfectly good hand, but saying they're gay is pretty lame

[@turkeyherder9456]

​@@FrozEnbyWolf150Conservatives that are secretly attracted to men often lash out at women though. They have a lot of anger from suppressing their urges and talk about how being gay is a choice because they're attracted to men and choosing to act as if they're not. I agree that it's not necessary to speculate on it though. I would say that both of those characters are absolutely attractive and I don't know what kind of crazy standards they have for female beauty.

[@turkeyherder9456]

Also he's middle aged! He's a middle aged dad. I'm a middle aged dad myself, I can't imagine myself talking about how middle aged moms are not attractive. I don't know how old his wife is, but as Jake pointed out she's probably middle aged to or close to it.

[@bryna7]

​@@FrozEnbyWolf150there are plenty of gay guys that don't like women...at all

[@CrabCrow]

10:15 Look at his friends trying to have a sliver of self awareness while Shad shuts it down with a pro eugenics argument. You can feel the awkward tension as they avoid eye contact and he lectures them on how to think. EDIT: Now he's just adding random head cannon to the game about Peter's goal being to attain a hot girl. Where was that in the text?

[@atheaus3917]

You can see them both chafe at what he’s saying at several points, why are they even hanging around him? Edit: especially the one on the left, he spends half of the last five minutes with his head in his hands lmfao

[@SilverDragonJay]

lol "we go to video games for the escapism". So I guess in this context that means "I find my wife sexually unattractive so I have to escape to the realm of fantasy to jerk off." Like, I get it, fictional characters are hot, I'm currently simping for Neuvillette from genshin impact (judge me if you want, he will). discounting one crush on a co-worker and a few parasocial crushes, I don't really crush on real people. But that's fine, I'm not running around calling any character I _don't_ find attractive ugly or making videos about how they're taking my pretty people away (when they aren't even doing that, calm your tits). Attractive characters aren't something that I'm entitled to, rather they are a fun little treat. With how straight men have been pandered to with hypersexual, unrealistically beautiful women for decades, I'm not surprised that he doesn't get this. I also acknowledge that this fact about me might make me some flavor of asexual or demi sexual instead of pretending that I'm 100% heteronormative and everyone is just like me. No, I'm weird, I get it. I also don't have a partner who's self-esteem I can irreparably damage with careless comments about needing to "escape into the realm of fantasy to be surrounded by beautiful people".

[@hex.enigma]

Bold of you to assume he has a wife.

[@julietfischer5056]

@@hex.enigma- He's Mormon and has children. He has a wife.

[@hex.enigma]

@@julietfischer5056 It was a joke because he clearly does not like women.

[@AH-vm8yo]

​@@julietfischer5056I feel like he only has a wife because of his religion. Like it's so much easier to find a partner when your both part of an extremely strict religion mainly because the women in those religions are pressured into getting a partner vs a woman who has no religion or not part of a strict denomination.

[@johncerasi]

I played Spiderman 2 and I loved it! Not once did Mary Jane’s level of fuckability factor into my feelings on the game at all. These dudes are weird.

[@chillinsquirtle]

What about when she turned into scream 😍

[@bloodywilliam3083]

Like, she’s Beverly Crusher levels of hot.

[@johncerasi]

@@chillinsquirtle that part did make me very horny yes

[@Nerobyrne]

I would feel so gross doing this "research". Not that I don't find fictional women attractive, but it's so gross to compare people in such minute details

[@shanewilson7994]

12:20 - as a photographer myself, 100%, we tend to do a lot of editing on our photographs, and lighting makes such a huge difference. And I don't even do a ton of editing unless requested to by the model, but there's always editing. The render has harsher lighting from the side, the head shot literally has probably 2 flashes, and a reflector to account for the lighting, and then the makeup, and photoshopping.

[@stormsummerstone2908]

Shads fall hurts my soul

[@Ktmfan450]

Shad was never that good

[@autobotstarscream765]

​@@Ktmfan450He was Donatello to all stick fans.

[@GodKingReiss]

The thing about SM2’s MJ is that her design got tweaked to an extent that she looks like a different character compared to her look in the first game, and at times it can come across as uncanny, but people like these don’t have the desire or capacity to understand how their own brains work so they immediately resort to “WHY SHE UGLY??” when she isn’t by any means.

[@sluttyMapleSyrup]

That's fair. Peter changed as well (iirc because the original 2018 actor didn't have a contract renewal for Miles Morales or SM2), but they really nailed the blend of dorky and athletic that Peter Parker's always implied to be with his first model.

[@MrLuschimann]

Excuse me Last of Us in this list? Do they really just say that Ellie was hot in the first one? The 14 year old is uglier now because she's of age now?!

[@Rawr1752]

Middle aged moms are hot, extremely correct I remember being in this camp of like, believing even for a single moment that the changing of designs was intentionally to make them less attractive. Until, I started writing my own stuff because I like a lot of the sexier characters designs, but a throughline that I got with all of them, is that most of them fell into three camps; 1) They were strictly eyecandy, 2) They died to push someone else forwards, 3) They're in a side role that contributes little if anything. Often all of the above, and I wanted to do better than that because you really can have characters that are really sexy, so long as they're actually characters. And almost 100% of the time, every redesign that made a character 'less hot' was followed by improving the character in ways that wasn't, 'lmao titty go boing'. And it made generally all of them significantly hotter, because they were allowed to be people. I think my favorite was FF7 when they gave us the Tifa redesign, and they did, honestly, literally nothing. What they did, was give her a sports bra, you know, something that would be really nice for the very well endowed woman who suplexing the fucking world. They didn't do anything else. They just gave her a sports bra, and having proper-ish attire to accommodate your body's form to help you fight at your best, shows a level of understand on Tifa's part, that is incredibly attractive. They did, nothing else, but give her proper support, and people lost their minds about it. Artists can do whatever they want with their art, it doesn't necessarily devalue what came before; I wish people understood that more. And a lot of updates tend to make things better, not all the time, but a lot of the time.

[@Nerobyrne]

I've noticed that trying to describe women's appearance isn't a good idea to do in great detail. Like, imagine the most attractive woman ever. She's 5 feet tall, has long curly brown hair and is a bit chubby with a round face, right? Probably not, but that's what I imagined. So, I like to stick to only describing enough so people get the general idea of her appearance where it's relevant to the story. Like if she's tall or short, if that will come up later. You'd be surprised what the human brain adds if you only give it some details.

[@Rawr1752]

I think it's a sliding scale, as I do with a lot of things. I prefer having a pretty good idea of what my characters look like, minute details and all. My thought process is then, that if I'm doing detailed descriptions of my women, then I'm doing equally as long descriptions of my guys. If appearance is something important to me when it comes to writing the women in my stories, there is no reason that it shouldn't also apply to my men. Is it important to do that all the time? No, but really that could be said of anything. When it becomes important, it's made note of, but I don't necessarily vibe with only doing something because its strictly relevant to the story. I feel like you can boil that down to a point that takes away some of the enjoyment that I find in being able to write.

[@Rawr1752]

As a caveat, though, I think it also depends on what goal you're after with your writing. I admit that a lot of my writing is for me, and kind of hoping that people like the narrative that I spin around writing what I do. I wouldn't do the same sort of things if I was writing a story for a huge audience, that I would if I was writing in the text RPs that I'm a part of.

[@Nerobyrne]

@@Rawr1752 well, there certainly isn't just one wiring style, and clearly ours are different 😊

[@Rawr1752]

Word.

[@Pensive_Scarlet]

Also, I wish people like this would have the guts to go into detail about how exactly these "objective" standards work. You'd think if there are objective standards then there would be simple, universal attributes and definitions that could be very easily expressed and very intuitively understood.

[@cristalido3640]

There are, though... Most cultures agree that curves on a woman and muscles on a man is attractive, to cite the most superficial characteristics that tends to be seen as attractive on men and women.

[@Pensive_Scarlet]

@@cristalido3640 This is about faces, though. That being said, there are cultures out there with different body standards that have developed over time (the one off the top of my head is the one where guys with big round bellies are considered the most attractive men). "What most people tend to like" is not "objectivity", it's just majority opinion. Even with the characteristics you pointed out, there's still a lot of variation. I get what you're explaining, I just don't agree that it constitutes an objective standard in any way.

[@Moondramon]

The more I relearn about Shad, the crazier he appears... they literally look the same, the only differences is the angle, lightning, and hair. She looks beautiful. And I find it annoying that he screams "DON'T GET TRIGGERED," as he is actively being triggered... it's very depressing. Also Peter has always looked hot, Shad!

[@Moriarty70]

The hottest part of MJ has always been her self confidence. Her first line is "Fact it Tiger, you just hit the jackpot".

[@tonefloat]

I don't think he's gay, I think he just doesn't view women as human

[@rustkitty]

For a certain type of guy it's very important that Mary Jane must be hot & famous. Peter Parker's origin is the archetypal shunned scrawny nerd, in the original incarnation even very gloomy and spiteful too. Yet after the spider bite he becomes fit, befriends a mega-rich guy who helps his social status, first dates a hot fellow student in college, then after her death another hot girl who ends up a supermodel before they marry. All this with relative ease (tragic uncle death not withstanding). It's something that gives them hope. Not a concern for Shad personally, who is already married and a father, but the overwhelming majority of Shad's culture war talking points are not concerns for him personally as a rich mormon man. It's either internet brain rot or a pure grift.

[@unreasonablyagreeable1081]

Por que no los dos?

[@autobotstarscream765]

Or he sees himself as the patriarch of all those angry young incels, leading them into the glory of the Dark Side for their own good.

[@julesmasseffectmusic]

Peter and Harry were friends before the spider bite.

[@tonyschannel7438]

I wonder if anyone's reaction to seeing Kirsten Dunst as Mary Jane in the 2001 Sam Raimi Spider-Man movie (or its 2 sequels) was "That is NOT what a real woman looks like!"

[@FrozEnbyWolf150]

I was about to say these remind me of the impossible standards in Proverbs 31, "The Wife of Noble Character," which require a woman to toil endlessly and be perfect in every way. However, even that includes a verse saying that, "Charm is deceptive, and beauty is fleeting." These guys are assessing fictional women based solely on their looks and attractiveness. Nonetheless, you can see an analogous double standard where women are expected to work much harder to keep up appearances and appeal to the male gaze, while these guys sit around casting judgment.

[@unreasonablyagreeable1081]

Casting judgment while looking fat, bald, and or fugly

[@autobotstarscream765]

The Wife of Noble Character is a career woman and supergenius who irl intimidates chuds by existing. 😂

[@GnomePickles]

Shad, canonically she is half your age bruv. You have children coming up on her age dude.

[@autobotstarscream765]

_Insert snarky comment about his book here_

[@shanewilson7994]

With MJ looking "plain" in Spiderverse, the scenes you see her in, its literally her grieving, or her in a divorce, or her at home. Guess what, "models" don't look like you see in the photos 24/7 (hell even during shoots they don't always look like in the post processed photos). And when they are in comfy cloths, they tend to look a lot like other people, because they are, well, people.

[@elfomarcio]

For how these guys understand motion capture they probably think that Andy Serkis looks like Gollum.....

[@Venom_9390]

My only complaint about the new Spiderman is Miles didn't get a Symbiote himself. But I understand why. That's Peters gimmick.

[@OceanusHelios]

I remember when Cindy Crawford was interviewed, and somebody said, "I wish I looked like Cindy Crawford." Cindy Crawford replied, "I wished that I looked like Cindy Crawford." Yeah, it is the editing. Cindy was envious of her own likeness.

[@SugaMot]

"Everyone likes looking at better looking people" Your local asexual here, I honestly cannot tell if someone is considered "better looking" or "attractive". On top of that, I have have blindness, so most people look the same to me unless they have some very clear defining feature, and very often these "better looking" people lack that. I do not want characters who are "better looking" I want characters who I can actually tell apart from one another

[@christophergreen6595]

Sooooo... I'm loosely connected to an ADF 'grove', dedicated to recreating the feel of early pagan religious rites. Lotta crossover there with people into historical recreation and HEMA fighting. Shad makes me sad.

[@autobotstarscream765]

How do you guys get along with the HEMA guys, since it seems to me that a lot of them see themselves as Crusader Knights?

[@comfycat9]

Pretty closed minded for a person with the word ‘diversity,’ in their username.

[@FrozEnbyWolf150]

He would say, that's because it's short for "university." You know, like the U in PragerU-- Oh, wait.

[@zenbear9952]

She looks beautiful? Shad's definitely been hanging around geeks and gamers too long. There ain't no way anybody into women wouldn't find her attractive not that you need to be mind you.

[@deathhippy8539]

the sword nerd took an incel ark? who could have seen it coming

[@urbmna87]

I feek bad for his wife.

[@hamsnub]

and his daughter

[@chillinsquirtle]

Her appearance change was jarring at first but now i don't even think about it. Peter still looks weird to me though

[@georgelarie]

So mary jane in the video games isnt someone who wants to sit around and do nothing. She wants to actively be a part in whats going on. But thats in conflict with peter who wants to keep her and the people he loves safe but thats what led to their separation to begin with. Thats more interesting than mary jane just existing and doing nothing.

[@ronoc9]

Do these kinds of guys have a humiliation kink, or do they honestly not see what's wrong with wanting a fictional character to be even more unobtainable to them?

[@WackyJack322]

"We're talking about a fictional character, so don’t take this seriously!" My dude, nobody is taking this as seriously as you are right now.

[@DanielHernandez-sg9sg]

Women have a lot of pressure out into them about their looks in real life, I am sure escapism could involve them not having to look photoshopped to be considered beautiful.

[@jadedtwin]

I can't believe I used to like shad 😑

[@pashortt123]

Shad is the epitome of "I studied the blade"

[@shannond1511]

It is crazy to think that up until recently, it was more common than not to see women as tho in order to exist they’re “supposed to be” attractive.

[@LunarOverdrive]

Doesn't arguing "mary jane should be hot because peter is a nerdy geek dating someone way out of his league" imply that peter should be ugly

[@Helycon]

he did not read spiderman comic books correctly if he took "mary jane as an object to be desired" (direct quote) Edit: down the line I am convinced none of these guys played the games. The story in the first game wasnt even them friendzoning each other, they're just acting like exes who still have a thing for each other act. Have these people never had a relationship??

[@facundovera3227]

Shad is married and has kids, although you wouldn't know it when you look at him.

[@julesmasseffectmusic]

Shad is a Mormon so no his wife was picked for him because he couldn't attract one

[@frankheninja1]

It’s also ok to wear a gambeson if you’re a historical fencer, but only if you are actively fencing.

[@KissMyConverseFool]

i don't believe shad could fence his way out of a paper bag tbh

[@frankheninja1]

@@KissMyConverseFool completely true, the guys genuinely terrible. He posted a video of him with “years of training” (his own made up BS) against a HEMA novice with about 7 months of training, and he was still getting stomped by the newbie lol.

[@zenbear9952]

@@frankheninja1 He doesn't have the athletic build of someone that went through "years of training". More likely he just studied technique without putting it into practice.

[@frankheninja1]

@@zenbear9952 more likely he just hit his friends with foam bidders a couple times lol

[@angelasmith5019]

So I’ve been doing HEMA for a few years, still kinda fat. Admittedly I don’t train often and I’m not great, but technically I have years of training and I know what I’m doing without any build. Maybe the trick is to join a club with people who are actually good.

[@GeteMachine]

The only important role for women in stories, is to be hot and do nothing else or woke.

[@n0etic_f0x]

This guy always gave me weird creepy guy vibes even when I would watch his content. This shows why, he is the strange kind of guy who says _"Women can be hotter"_ here are some questions I have as a gay man. Hotter than what? He is not talking about _a_ woman and how _she_ can be hotter, but how _women as a whole_ can be hotter. So... what is the other standard? It can't be women. Like if a guy comes to me and wants to look better my other standards are primarily how he looks now and other men, I am not trying to make him more attractive than any woman because... that makes no sense to my brain. Women are not sexually attractive, he is more attractive by default.

[@EternalDensity]

a bunch of men sitting around bemoaning the social decay of prominent women in fiction being allowed to not be as hot by their standards is part infuriating and part nauseating

[@VelaiciaCreator]

He wrote a boring and dangerously evil.... history book for a constructed world. Westside Tyler recently compiled his review of the book so we don't have to read it to find out how bad it is. No sane modern person could excuse the contents of those pages. The saddest part is Tyler came up with a pretty easy way to fix the biggest issues while still maintaining the impact that Shad seemed to be after before getting distracted by monologuing through his special Gary Stue. Makes it soooooo much more cohesive and it tells an actually respectable lesson.

[@the_markoman]

Shad has never seen any interview with Stan Lee apparently. His approach to creating characters was to make them more than just the 1-dimensional hyper-competant man you'd see in pulp fiction comics. Tell the down-to-earth human story of each character and not just the superhero wish-fulfillment adventure.

[@autobotstarscream765]

Stan the Man was woke by today's standards, I think that's the real reason he's being buried.

[@Aedlmonrl]

@@autobotstarscream765 His humanity and acceptance of people goes against the ideologies of American conservatives, so they bury him instead of trying to claim him instead. Its surprising that Stan was so human that they fail to do anything and instead pretend his stories didn't exist

[@Profoundegg]

After a long day of fighting crime and swinging around taking photos. Peter Parker comes home. As we enters the apartment, Mary Jane turns to Peter and says "Hey Peter. I'm so hot."

[@autobotstarscream765]

"Face it, Tiger, you won the jackpot!"

[@grandsome1]

Anyone saying that this woman is ugly, is truly insane. Not your type is one thing, but ugly, that's crazy. She's in the same ballpark of Hollywood pretty as her last model.

[@dragondelsur5156]

Never show Aloy to this man or he'll lose his shit.

[@mexicanburrito2979]

100% agree with you on this video but the Mary Jane levels were in fact criticized for not being that fun and ruined the pace of the game a bit. Still, nothing to do with playing as her, just how they played out.

[@muswaldSunny]

Get'em Sarah! Preach!

[@sorryifoldcomment8596]

15:25 "Gamers™" like these guys are always complaining about "realism" whenever it suits them, especially in relation to people's appearances...but then they also complain that female characters suffering through a ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE after the total collapse of civilization...aren't hot enough! Even though they're already unrealistically attractive in The Last of Us (Part 2)...pretty much like that in every video game where the female characters are fighting for their lives. Male characters get to be dirty, scarred, with unkempt hair & beard stubble, etc. But even women who survived a plane crash, only to be stranded in the middle of a jungle, fighting for their life against enemies & trying to survive on nothing...still look better than I do when I wake up in the morning!

[@shinkaibara1025]

"I am sure their opinion on noses doesn't lead back to a bad place at all ". I admit, I laughed harder at that deadpan little jab at the end than I should have. I really like Shad's content on his main channel, and even the novel I read is competently written and while it gives off that silly edgelord vibe at every step, it channels it positively at least with good worldbuilding and original choices. His reviews and 'social commentary', though. Dear Lord.

[@TheNeilBlack]

Something that kind of slipped past without notice, because it was such a quick little moment: after all the time they spent complaining about how they made Mary Jane look older, Shad's little minion on the right mentions near the end that he didn't like the changes they made to Peter because he liked the older, more mature looking Peter they had before. So they want a youthful MJ and a mature Spider-Man...

[@hughiegibson1716]

As someone who supposedly loves the olden times, he doesn’t realize that beauty standards evolve.

[@kiddragoon15]

I love how all the chuds take it for granted that the last game was accurate to the face model. Spoiler alert: she's more accurate in SM 2.

[@vitXras]

MORMON!!! That makes a lot of sense now.

[@kamenrideraquarius]

Isnt she middle aged in the sony spiderman games? This is an older and more expirenced Spider-Man

[@FennecZephyr]

Peter and MJ are 25

[@sorryifoldcomment8596]

I can't stop laughing at how in the midst of the guys arguing over which game model they find the most attractive and why...Shad also mentions how he believes in the existence of objective beauty, and the existence of objective beauty standards by which one can judge...in this case, judge which model is more beautiful...with Shad also believing the old model is prettier. Meanwhile, his friends are arguing his judgment is wrong, as they're quite positive the new model is the more beautiful one. 😂 So if objective beauty exists, who is right? Either his friends are right, in which case Shad is objectively wrong & needs to change his opinion Or Shad is right...in which case, WOW what a coincidence! Objective beauty for all humanity happens to line up with what Shad finds beautiful...and everyone who objectively find something else to be beautiful that he doesn't, just so happens to be "objectively" wrong...

[@Popper_Drop]

The AI art thing had be intrguied so I went to look it up and then I came across the information that Shadiversity is Jazza's BROTHER. ARE YOU KIDDING ME? For those who don't know, Jazza is an amazing Australian artist and a beacon of hope and joy. He's a genuinely amazing person and I have no idea how he's related to this dolt - I've been following him for almost an entire decade now and I had no idea they were brothers. Jazza has been open about being Mormon (I'm not certain but I think it's previously, I don't believe he is anymore) but he's the only other Australian Mormon I've known of... crazy

[@gwit4051]

That is nuts, at least Jazza sticks to his trade

[@kierstenburtz8442]

Wow! Wat a cool episode of "old man yells at cloud"!

[@rcarfang2]

Why is he so concerned about a cartoon character? cartoon characters appearance/beauty is dependent on the artist. Also the stars of Spider-Man is Peter Parker, Miles Morales , and their billion incarnations.

[@lukebonser4899]

Do any of them even like Spider-Man??? One of them didn't even know that Spiderverse is lmao

[@thebeavpercabethftw9604]

Even in the comics, MJ had a more fleshed out personality than just "looks hot".

[@KallenMalefic]

Used to be a huge fan of his back when he was all about swords and history.

[@cryobot6641]

I swear I remember these sorts of people complaining about Mary Jane when the first game was new, too Am I misremembering or just confusing it with every time chuds complain about women not being fapbait enough or whatever

[@mittensthemighty7028]

Nah, they were crying in the first game too.

[@kyaunaalonzo681]

As a redhead, I'm thrilled they don't like redheads, as I'm sure all redheads are.

[@happytofu5]

As a middle aged woman I am thrilled he would not ogle at me.

[@pyerack]

6:50 bro they look like they could be two different people at the same age lol

[@mrshittles9424]

Shad knows this will piss people off. His main viewers are probably all thinking that too. That's the whole purpose of this video of Shad's. He's thinking, "It's fine to talk about this stuff, and people will be pissed at me, and therefore they're unreasonable, so I want to piss them off." What Shad doesn't realize is that he's constantly, sort of, mentally straw-manning the left into imagining them as a bunch of blue-haired, screaming, psychopaths. That's his main mistake. He's generally pretty intelligent...but he has this false image of the left as a bunch of blue-haired, screaming psychopaths. Someone needs to just talk to him and explain to him how, even the people who seem like blue-haired screaming psychopaths on the left may not be as unreasonable as you're imagining them as.

[@beefyhaze6311]

There are plenty of medieval youtubers. No need to bend yourself for this turd.

[@FrozEnbyWolf150]

It's the same rationale as messing one's pants in public, and then saying, "What bruh? You triggered by the smell?"

[@mrshittles9424]

@@FrozEnbyWolf150 Yes.

[@SirKittalot]

i remember when he was just a guy who liked machicolations

[@Ktmfan450]

It's kind of ironic that a guy who advocated for realism in games when it came to medieval architecture dislikes when characters have more realistic designs

[@Gamingpandacat]

i'm learning how to draw and both the perception of these chuds and the unrealistic anatomy we usually see is in conflict with the kind of style and the proportions I should be trying to aim for, I do want to draw the things that are good but also want to be a bit more realistic or diverse or something, its a big problem when I just imagine someone in my head yelling how you can't make women hot anymore, its exhausting and I want to include as many people as possible.

[@julietfischer5056]

And the wild thing is that realistic women can be sexy. It takes more effort to draw and characterize them, but it can be done. There are readers and gamers who want that.

[@booksandbluestockings8664]

I thought Peter liked MJ mainly because she was just an inherently sweet person

[@siege5557]

"I'm convinced that guys that wear gambison things in when you're not actually laring anywhere when you're not doing anything you're not going to like a Fest you're just at home doing videos I'm not into it." said the man in the corn suit

[@beefyhaze6311]

These dudes have absolutely never read a Spiderman comic. Also the MJ sections in the first game were fucking awful. Too much of a tone shift. Good thing they fixed em in 2. They were a bunch of fun. MJ kickin ass with a stun gun is fun.

[@JoshuaWillis89]

Middle-aged women are hot af. Honestly my preference

[@jordand5555]

Bro acting like he wouldnt coom his pants if that cartoon character whispered in his direction.