Why X16 memory chips have less bandwidth than X8 memory chips

Shorter version of part 1 of this video: • The differences betwee...
LTT video: • The Dirty Way Manufact...
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#RAM #DDR4 #PCbuilding

[@JarrodsTech]

Thanks for explaining, it was easy to notice the difference in performance between laptops that have the x16 and x8 memory, but otherwise I'm like WHAT IS RAM

[@arkadeepkundu4729]

_Me, in my head thinking of the Rome Total War vocalization of units carrying the battering rams:_ *RAM!*

[@ryangibson2831]

Random Access Memory. Think of it as a temporaty data storage for your CPU.

[@jinno4594]

What is RAM? Baby, don't know me Don't know me, no more Baby, don't know me Don't know me, no more What is RAM? Yeah

[@hjups]

This also affects laptops which have a 1 SODIMM + soldered configuration (like some of the Lenovo laptops). There the soldered RAM is 4 x16 memory chips. Since the memory controller on the CPU takes the worst possible timings for both channels, that means that the soldered RAM will end up affecting the performance of the DIMM. Or in other words, there's no point in spending the money on an x8 SODIMM if an x16 SODIMM is cheaper since both channels will run with x16 timings.

[@brianw3415]

@@hjups I don't suppose you know what the ThinkPad P14S gen 2 AMD model has soldered in? I just ordered one and now stumbled on this ram banks information.

[@Mickulty]

Linus Tech Tips: "It's like librarians..." AHOC: "Bank groups!"

[@glyn3015]

maybe the more chips you got on a stick is better as it can cycle more operations quicker MAYBE ?

[@VillaMasterSF]

everything involving banks or bank groups like deutsche bank group is a scam knew it since 2008 mate.

[@user_23165]

We need more librarians! :-)

[@turb0j]

I believe the Dell prebuild that GamersNexus reviewed had X16 chips on the RAM stick. Nitpick: 5:00 is bits and not bytes. RAM cells are single bit.

[@teckkian]

Yes, the Dell G5 prebuilt is x16 kzbin.info/www/bejne/anWwmGmeitqXfqc

[@ericrose3978]

GN had 1R x16 stick in their recent Dell G5 prebuilt review, running single channel for good measure.

[@radekc5325]

Aha! I remembered this but could not find the video. You've got it. They pull it out at 13:10

[@d00dEEE]

Dell didn't want to screw things up only halfway.

[@Dazzxp]

@@d00dEEE If ya gonna screw up you have to go all the way lol.

[@andersjjensen]

@@d00dEEE They probably have a bonus system that specifically mentions savings that can't be seen on the spec sheet.

[@daghtus]

At least they make you pay extra for services you don't actually need or want.

[@TechyBen]

"Why is everything in powers of 2" That's like the dad joke of references of computing standup... XD

[@fringeanomaly9284]

I didn't understand 😅😅

[@SlightlySaici]

I don't think "it's super cheap, if you're buying that stuff you don't care about performance and I don't know what you're expecting" is a fair assumption to make. If there are two kits of RAM advertised with the same specs (MHZ, maybe CAS), a consumer is going to - at best - use all of these metrics available to them to compare products and get the best deal that's affordable to them. The existence of a third metric is neither disclosed nor known to them. I did not know about this and consider myself somewhat knowledgable in terms of computers. I don't think the unwashed masses should be free to prey on because they don't have an engineers degree in every topic possibly relevant to them, as much as it's seemingly a reality. Thank you for the video and thanks for educating me on the issue tho.

[@sparkoceanic]

I'm in the same boat as you. I found the best deal possible with the metrics available. I found the best balance between ram speed, size and latency that i could, and ended up going with 32gb of 3600mhz cl16. I'm going to dig a little deeper and find out exactly what parts they have used in my sticks because he mentions the lucky dip nature of the lower priced kits. I don't personally mind the outcome of what i find and consider it a learning experience because it's much more interesting than i thought it'd be in my case.

[@majstealth]

i also learned a ton, after being around pc´s for now ~23years. the next rabbit hole i can advise is harddrives..... and i am not only talking cmr/pmr and smr, but also 512/4k, platter count vs. density etc. confusing modelnumbers, but at least not as bad as versions being totally different..^^

[@FeedMeSalt]

I second that part about being fairly techy but not knowing about this. 5 years of ameture PC repair/building im ashamed. i sure hope i never shafted someone with this.

[@somethinglikethat2176]

@@sparkoceanic thank you. You've taken a huge wait off my mind. I've got the same kit and I was wondering about it.

[@kabirsaheb7861]

Since you guys look so tech savvy please help me out with my question.so Bro i recently buyed Lenovo legion slim 7i gen7 2022 model. Iwanted to know if i have two ram both 8gb total 16gb. slot one is solded ram is rx16 and other is changeable (but its allso rx16). so if i remove other and put rx8 . of same dd5 4800mah but of 16gb ( because mine support max24gb). will it work? allso speed will incresse? is it a good idea? Plz enlighten me.

[@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking]

Shorter version of part 1 of this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rWPFd62HibZsl6s If you're wondering what happened to the HWbot score round up. I screwed up my jaw while recording a different video and so talking isn't very fun ATM. So this is the replacement for the score round up. Hopefully I'll manage to get the score round up out by Tuesday.

[@lukefranks8795]

Get better soon been really enjoying the content :)

[@funtaril]

oh so that's why you sound so unusually calm in this one

[@TeamTDU]

recording a different video? ;)

[@classicmartini]

So... what do we buy again? :-)

[@TheBackyardChemist]

how does one injure their jaws while recording a video about overclocking? like, i cannot see it happening. HOW? burn from a soldering iron? punching yourself in the chin when trying to remove a stuck LN2 pot?

[@porqueman4869]

Top tier video. Funny how the ¨same¨ RAM kits can be so completely different.

[@charleshines2506]

That makes me laugh at everyone who ever once said RAM is RAM and said it is all the same.

[@Luckyn00bOC]

Ah was hoping you'd comment on this - nice work as always man :) I have similar problem with this (on 2018 IIRC) especially with low-end value RAMs, the 4GB per module so to speak. At the time lots of cheap 4GB module are starting to use 8Gbit 4 IC with 1Rx16, instead of 4Gbit 8IC 1Rx8. But the problem wasn't as amplified as now since those 1Rx16 RAMs usually comes in higher speed bin (2666MT/s) compared to the 1Rx8 kit 2133MT/s, and the people using this kind of RAM usually have low-end GPU, making RAM performance difference not as pronounced as today. I've checked a couple SODIMMs in local market, it seems indeed some the 16Gbit 4IC 1Rx16 modules are starting to be sold a lot more compared to last 1-2 years, and it might replace the typical 8Gbit 8IC 1Rx8 configs.

[@ArifLeu]

So need buy 16gb stick now? *sorry bad english

[@Luckyn00bOC]

@@ArifLeu Not really, but it is less likely to found 16GB ddr4 module on 1Rx16 config, so if buying 16gb stick are an option this might be good strategy. You can always try asking the store, although not many stores may understood details like this.

[@virtualtools_3021]

what if trhey go even lower... 16gb chips for 4GB ram module only 2 chips, 1rx32 (pretty sure it doesn't work like that but feel free to prove me wrong and save 2 bucks dell)

[@jtland4842]

I would love to see the graph of electrical engineers to non-electrical engineers who watch these videos.

[@ryanmanner2503]

Not an electrical engineer, small sample size though

[@TwskiTV]

I'm an electrical engineer, so its 50% so far

[@avex13]

I had a similar situation with Corsair in the past. I bought 2 Corsair kits with the exact same part number (to run 32 GB), and they had different chip manufacturers (Hynix and Micron) and different ranks (1 kit was 1 rank, other kit was 2 ranks). Learned my lesson. Never mix kits even if they are "the same" kit.

[@Unknown-sz8kg]

I have the exact problem right now. Ive used four sticks Corsair vengance 32gb in total but two different chip manufacturers, has worked for several months but now the pc crashes/blue screen all the time.

[@namibjDerEchte]

Unless the part number is so specific that they don't bother selling kits, like the 32G sticks I bought a month ago. Granted, they have ECC, but you can ignore that and they are still compatitve in price and speed.

[@DimkaTsv]

Unless you know FOR SURE they have same specs (like both kits are 3200 14-14-14-?? 1R 2x8 Samsung B-die, for example)...

[@xRevoEmaGx]

I just learned the hard way with PNY XLR8 sodimms, have 2 16gb sticks and noticed one had a lot more chips on it than the other...sneaky bastards

[@TheSocialGamer]

They don't want consumers to know this detail because manufacturers will have to charge accordingly. They want to sell all ram at a premium. 🤣👌

[@Oats4761]

Unfortunately it looks like x16 will stay the same price (maybe some sales here and there), and x8 modules rise in price over this year

[@henok_gk]

Laptop RAM sticks have also horrendous timings in general for obvious reasons regarding voltage. Even if you have a laptop with an unlocked multiplier CPU (therefore unlocked memory controller) you just can't OC the RAM or even tighten timings at the same speed.

[@tommihommi1]

They have horrendous timings because just like most prebuilts they just use JEDEC spec RAM, since that's what everything is verified for. Some Laptops actually can do XMP.

[@Muldeeer]

RAM only consumes a few watts so its stupid to put a low spec one into a higher spec notebook.

[@nathangamble125]

@@Muldeeer Of course it is, but getting a motherboard that supports XMP costs a couple of dollars extra, and laptop manufacturers will cut corners to save costs at every opportunity they get. This is the same world where Dell puts single channel RAM in $2000 Ryzen gaming PCs to save a couple of dollars, even though it makes the PC about 30% slower in games. The big prebuilt PC manufacturers don't care about quality, they care about profit, and they'll do whatever they can to improve their margins as long as there's still someone in the world who will buy their shitty products.

[@WhenDoesTheVideoActuallyStart]

@@Muldeeer It'll still sell.

[@kBitre]

@@nathangamble125 That's the phenomena of brand name which means you have a level of trust you shouldn't have

[@chincemagnet]

I’m glad you covered this because I found it a little confusing, you explained it very well, it was easy to understand

[@CrazyByDefault]

had both the LTT and this video right next to each other on my feed lol. not sure where to start, but it seems like i'm in for 45m of fun either way

[@stuartlunsford7556]

My first thought was bank interleaving, just like rank interleaving can improve performance. Thanks for more or less confirming this so I don't have to!

[@sabishiihito]

Kingston has datasheets for most of its Fury/HyperX kits that mention the ranks and chip size, IIRC.

yep and that one reason I use kingston because at least I know the specs from the pdf.

[@jomeyqmalone]

All of those shots version numbers on Corsair LPX RAM stickers is giving me flashbacks to hunting down a 32GB kit of B-Die. Same as the ver 4.31 kit you showed, but dual rank given that it's 32GB (got the idea from earlier content on this channel, so thanks for that!) Squinted at so many blurry ebay listing photos...

[@andrewmcewan9145]

Talking about those dell chips. My buddy had a optiplex that we slapped a 1070 in with a i5 7400 it had a single channel x16 8gb ram dim(2400mhz). It made the 7400 perform exactly like a 3470s (wirh 1600mhz dual rank dual channel 4gb sticks) that we used as a in-between while off loading the dell. Allways suprised me that it preformed that bad (where talking about sub 50fps dips in borderlands 3 @1080p) Least we say how anemic 4 modules on a full size dimm looks but unfortunately dell is know to scoop even lower...

[@taiiat0]

a good anecdote to hopefully further help all the dumdums that always insist that RAM is always the same. :)

[@andersjjensen]

@@taiiat0 Except not a single one of those watch AHOC so they will never see the comment :P

[@taiiat0]

@@andersjjensen yeah, i know.........

[@arjen7024]

thank you, this was exactly the kind of video I was looking for after seeing linus' rant

[@gucky4717]

In short...the more Bank Groups you have, the faster it is. So when looking for RAM, having 1Rx8 is good. But there is also Dual Rank Memory, you can double the amount of Bank Groups...So try to look for 2Rx8 or 2Rx4 RAM....

[@bubbabubby1]

Really cool video with information that no one else is really talking about served up in a way my unwrinkled brain can understand! Now that's a winning combo. Any chance you release a video about what each tertiary timing does, and what they affect?

[@MadRC]

Ohh early on this one. Hmm this is going to be something we need to look at closely moving forward when buying ram. With the current shortage is hardly surprising they are trying to reduce actual silicon output but at the expense of the user is not acceptable. We really need more clarity from all vendors around this.

[@PabzRoz]

you're first on this one

[@texasslingleadsomtingwong8751]

This is exactly my thoughts , I'm about to pull my ram out of my pc to check . I get a sinking feeling 😕

[@samgoff5289]

@@texasslingleadsomtingwong8751 it's funny you have been using the ram this entire time and been happy with it but you are going to pull it out and look now and somehow be un happy with it 😂

[@TheGroundedCoffee]

@@samgoff5289 its about integrity, you simpleton.

[@akva1214]

That's why I like Kingston. They actually have spec sheets for each of their SKUs. It doesn't list which die is being used though. I think most manufacters don't list anything so they can change dies without having to make new SKUs or use multiple dies for a single SKU.

[@dudebroguymate]

They have spec sheets because their labels are so bad. You can never reliably figure out what is what just by reading the info on the damn stick unless you know their part numbers by heart.

[@nathangamble125]

I like crucial. They put rank configuration information on their website for at least _some_ of their memory, and you usually know what sort of memory die you're getting because they only use micron memory (e.g. the really fast Ballistix MAX kits are always 16Gb Rev B, the moderately fast Ballistix kits are Rev E or 16Gb Rev B, and the slower Ballistix kits are 8Gb Rev B).

[@Knirin]

@@nathangamble125 Crucial is Micron’s consumer brand.

[@nathangamble125]

@@Knirin Well yes. That's why they only use Micron memory.

[@MikkoRantalainen]

Great video! I already did know that bank switching is slow but I didn't know that the timing between banks in different groups is actually faster. From the naming I would have assumed the other way around. I wasn't happy to find out that Corsair CMK16GX4M2B3200C16 doesn't actually tell what the part actually is. You would think that product codes that long could actually specify what you're getting! As I've mostly used the fastest available G.Skill RAM, I've accidentally dodged this bullet!

[@the0dued]

One thing to note is that as you go up in capacity you will have more bank groups so you cant compare this way between different capacity. An example is a x8 8GB stick will be similar to a x16 16GB stick, so x16 is not necessarily a bad thing.

[@SOP83]

We need to start holding these manufacturers and marketing departments accountable. This will only get worse unless we stand up for ourselves as customers (or potential customers).

[@namibjDerEchte]

Yeah, beyond-JEDEC Micron sticks would indeed be nice. Or just some higher bins and extended-voltage versions of their normal sticks. They don't hide their numbers, unlike Samsung.

[@samgoff5289]

Hold them accountable for what exactly? They are not forcing you to buy anything, if you aren't happy with somthing a company does don't buy from them 🤯

[@williammurdock3028]

As always the you are a good source of PC tech stuff. Great work

[@taiiat0]

a great counter explanation to go along with what Linus half explained for the masses. just a shame the masses won't see this other half.

[@dangingerich2559]

So, essentially, Linus's bookshelf/librarian image was correct.

[@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking]

no because the amount of data in the bank group is irrelevant. bigger modules aren't slower. X16 chips are.

[@thegamerboy1000]

I actually compared it to actual banks (back in the day) where you having more branches of a bank in given area and you more options to get your money without waiting in a line. If I'm wrong then that's because I'm not that knowledgeable in the technical aspects of computers, just wanted to throw out my initial thought on it.

[@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking]

@@thegamerboy1000 yeah that's a bit closer.

[@ckarafa]

Thanks for this. I'd consider myself at least kind of tech literate and I left the LTT with way more questions than answers. This was much better.

[@gsgrzegorz98]

buildzoid with technical explanation to the rescue. As always. Please never stop doing this.

[@JackNetRGBSync]

Wow this reaction video didn’t take long lol

[@LinkStorm13]

another video, that greatley helped me understand, what exactly memory timings do, and when they apply. Thanks for making videos like this one.

[@jean-paulpitman2172]

Love the extra diagrams and details. Thank you.

[@Nidjo79]

Great video. I appreciate the insight and I am slowly picking up terms. Soon I might even understand what is going on!

[@andersjjensen]

I started programming back in 1990 on a Commodore 64 and thought I had a pretty good grasp of memory and timings by now... But then Mr Buildzoid informs me that I'm still a clueless noob about memory topology and the inner workings of memory controllers. It never ends... and that's what I love about it! :P

[@concinnus]

My favorite part is the eBay listing picture with "WOW! 8GB" at 26:05.

[@darkSorceror]

Me: *makes BZ video fullscreen* Also me: "why is this video not fullscreen? WHY DOES CLICKING FULLSCREEN PAUSE THE VIDEO?"

[@picchioknossus8096]

Now the problem is as follows: considering that manufacturers don't say the precise specs (the ranks, subtimings, what chips are using, if they are by 8 or by 16... etc) and will keep doing so, is it possible to create a community repository of the various ram sticks and revisions that contains those specs?

[@vivekd005]

Main Issue is that we can't find this information anywhere, even while buying new RAM sticks for our Laptops and Desktop.

[@adammarette2491]

Another buildzoid gem

[@duac4508]

Super cool video, great to see these details

[@f3rns]

I was hoping for you to really explain us what the LTT video ment, I saw it and instantly thought about you. Thank you Buildzoid for your knowledge is trully a blessing for normies like me. 28:18, I lauged so hard.

[@Knirin]

If they halved the number of bank groups. Would doubling the number of chips get the speed back? Or another way would a 16 GB stick be faster than a 8GB stick using the same chips.

[@TheOriginalFaxon]

Only buildzoid could narrate a 30 minute video about a 16 minute video xD

[@DejayClayton]

"Why is everything in powers of 2?" Because binary devices represent numbers in power of 2. Performing math upon powers of 2 is extremely easy for binary devices, which is exactly what you'd want for internal components that benefit from operational efficiency.

[@majstealth]

sounds to me like "send the good ones to reviewers, sell the cheap ones to the customers - they wont notice" - agian....

[@jensgerntholtz4041]

I was waiting for this exact video. Thanks BZ.

[@charleshines2142]

WTRL sounds like a radio station call sign.

[@puknut]

Thank you for your service sir! All this info is invaluable. Best pc channel on youtube!

[@adammurdoch1708]

as a side note ddr 5 will double the number of banks and keep the bank groups the same size one of the ways it should improve thru put and the same "speed"

[@fy7589]

I think this should be more addressed because basically the metrics to measure overall responsiveness of a system is more than your cpu's single core or multi core cinebench score. This is also why the ssds with higher IOPS and relatively okay read / write speeds is generally a better choice than just the cheapest high read/write speeds. I just don't get it when a company like G.Skill doesn't provide enough information about their memory sticks. And there's like a stupid amount of confusion over QVL's for amd motherboards running zen 2 cpus. And most of the manufacturers have multiple completely identical in listed specs but on a completely trash board or spec and they are a lot cheaper but it's like a lot slower and it basically slows down almost everything on the computer. You basically can not see it until you open up a utility on the system to see it's actual specs. Aren't they making more profit on their more expensive kits already? I just don't get it. It's pretty stupid. And G.Skill listed that the motherboard I purchased were compatible with their memory kit and it was not. I couldn't run the advertised xmp with 3600mhz cl16. And it would show 32 gigabytes of total ram on the bios but windows would recognize it as single stick 16gb. And worse the memory kits worked when I installed them to the first two or the second two of the dimm slots. So yeah it was far from compatible. Then they removed gigabyte aorus elite from the list and I think the kit was CL16 F4-3600C16D-32GTZRC anyways I ended up buying another kit which works and dealing with that whole return and refund stuff for days that was a mess. I know it was probably just a mistake which they realized and then "fixed" but it's pretty dumb to just assume their kit will work on an untested motherboard in the first place.

[@ijustsawthat]

I've been waiting for this video.

[@Abdulrahman-ss3ds]

can you gave us a recommendation for high end sodimm ram's

[@kevinskelley3024]

Next video Resizable BAR x8 and x16 performance difference

[@GaroSlayer]

This video was great, thanks for taking the time!

[@Dreadknight_Gaming]

Brother Buildzoid is the hero we need that we don't deserve. ❤️

[@JeKramxel]

Thanks for the clarifications. Really awesome service you provide to your viewers, like me, it really is appreciated!

[@johnharder3334]

Having agonized over which RAM to get when building my first Ryzen machine I wholeheartedly agree with consumer RAM specs being bad and more info is needed to make sound purchasing decisions. Hunting down low latency Samsung B-die's with largely second hand information and using the timings to guess was crap and the cost not too was too big a performance hit for me. I'm happy that various other people were documenting RAM modules for Ryzen compatibility but the information should have been available from the start.

[@friendlyoctopus9391]

The whole time I was watching Linus' video, I was hoping you'd comment on it

[@Hadw1n]

Thanks for the explanation video.

[@TrunkMonkey42]

Because the DDR memory chips are not increasing in speed themselves but shrinking in size and the serial interfaces are running at a higher speed so to get the speed from the chips ddr4 now multiplexes banks behind the serial interface so a processor cache line is no longer equal to the bank line size but can be larger leading to a power of two of your memory bandwidth being spent on wait cycles especially for completely random non sequential access. Avoid ddr4 that mux chips behind the SERDES which can lead to other issues with layout and pricing. Otherwise, maybe you'll see an average of 20% slower memory, you'll need twice as much space for memory chips, or you'll pay twice as much for memory. Your processor probably already has everything in cache?

[@RPIERRI2007]

Nice video. It helps a little bit more.This issue deserve more attention because it affects too much pc performance. MOBO manufacturers have a page in their site with the memories compatible with their product and there you can find the specification of the memory and also if they are single/double ranked and X8 or X16. But for laptop it is impossible, only if you open the machine and see the memory stick or the label of it.

[@soklot]

Kingston offers a lot more detail on their consumer RAM sticks. They have a PDF and everything with ranks voltage and cycle times etc.

[@Lazarosaliths]

Tech is complicated until you watch AHOC

[@joshuagillis7513]

Great explanation, but what I want to know is if the creator of this video would have expected (was he as surprised by) such a huge performance difference (20% according to the LTT video) simply because the RAM was slower

[@MrPunkassfuck]

Fron what I gathered from LTT video, perf difference was 10-20%. That is still huge. In terms of dollars, that would equate to 200-300 $. To get same uplift in perf for the upgrade. RTX 3070 to 3080 or AMD 5600x to 5800x/5900x. Or equivalent laptop parts. But the price difference on memory, from the consumer shop was 50 $. OEMs/SIs don't pay that much. Pretty scummy move from laptop makers.

[@thomasraywood679]

I talk real fast to seem smarter than I am, and then tell on myself by saying um all the time

[@mrlithium69]

another classic buildzoid video.

[@ReiMurasame]

At 19:54 you say that you have never seen a 3200MHz memory kit using 16 bank memory chips, but I was able to find a 16GB Corsair Vengeance RGB part number that seems to be that way: CMWX16GC3200C16W4. In PassMark RAMMon this module comes up saying it's Samsung, '16 banks, 2 ranks'. They give you two in order to make a 32GB kit that seems to be aimed at populating the two slots on mini-ITX X570i motherboards, and in some cases is even bundled with those boards. Given that it's mostly found in the Zen 3 community, 2 ranks makes sense. The fact that they are 16 bank however seems to be a mysterious choice.

[@ReiMurasame]

UPDATE: Looking at them in Thaiphoon Burner now, it literally says "2Rx8" after all, so maybe I just didn't understand the way that PassMark RAMMon had worded it.

[@AmbiguityCaptive]

There's so much we don't know about things we get used to long ago... Thanks for an explanation!

[@vivekd005]

This is something big in the Laptop and Desktop Industry. It's funny how no one till now was able to find this difference. Manufacturers were more than Happy to keep this out of Consumer's Reach. Maybe in Future they'll give more information in their websites and Product Pages .

[@nithina2356]

" why is everything in power of 2?" coz binary is based on only two numbers (0 and 1) ; consisting of two parts . hence power of 2

[@dillonahrens8112]

This is the followup video i needed to understand this!!!!

[@XDSDDLord]

Great follow-up.

[@pronewbofficial]

My new 32 GB 3200 MHz GSKILL Trident Z RAM is slower than my old 16 GB 2400 MHz Corsair Vengeance LPX RAM. I've always wondered why. It's not because of CAS or other timings. With this new info, I'm going to take the covers off and see which configuration and chips they're using. Unfortunately, it isn't possible to know that until you buy them. But, now I know what to look for as soon as I get some RAM. Thanks Buildzoid!

[@Crossfire2003]

Kingston Fury does mention the ranking (2Rx8 or 1Rx8).

[@MrKentaroMotoPI]

Everyone: I'm really confused 🤔 DDR5: Hold my beer 🍻

[@Deaod]

I wonder what would be better: 2Rx16 or 1Rx8

[@micThurrr]

im really curious about quad rank x16

[@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking]

If I had to guess the performance would be similar between those.

[@aeromotive2]

super helpful thank you for making this!

[@andreasdalman6459]

The point Linus was making about desktop RAM, as I understood it, was that due to the fact you would be building the system yourself you are going to be looking at the components discretely before assembling them (RAM in this case). When doing this, the care and attention to the specs of each part would be considerably higher (conscious choice, not necessarily driven by lowest price at all times like an OEM assembling a laptop). I now know to look for 1Rx8 RAM rather than 1Rx16 (or the RAM stick of same capacity with more physical chips on it) because it will work faster (effectively similar to the effect of dual channel RAM for a single RAM stick if that makes sense - it works for my comprehension). The point you make about the Samsung sticker giving loads of info is great and something I will look into (some decoder for the model numbering etc. must be around...) I do feel you could have prepared the video better and said it all in 1/3 of the time and had tabs/examples ready to go; or at least use video editing software if you did not want to do it over when things went off track...

[@chinmonmon]

after switching my Alienware x17 r1 ram from single rank to dual rank I got around a 20 percent increase in certain applications ...this blew my mind how this isn't shown almost anywhere

[@InsertValidName]

Kingston still publishes this information non crypted accessible pre buy via the model number, props to them. HyperX does not officially publish the information but when you google the model number and "*.pdf" attached you will find the datasheet.

[@ravencorvus7903]

Thnx for explaining this properly. Bless Linus but I had more questions after the video then before .

[@ThePirateParrot]

Kingston will do you spec sheets for most stuff if you can get the model number, at least will get ranks on them if you can get the model number. Yeah you wont get chip types but at least you get ranks and timings etc.

[@Cornholio223]

will 1Rx8 and 2Rx16 perform the same? should be the same number of bank groups per dimm right?

[@Alan_Skywalker]

The only problem is, in a 6-channel DDR4-2933 server system I tested, the difference in BW between 2Rx4 and 2Rx8 is 2-5GB/s, way smaller than the 5-10GB/s difference between like 1Rx4 and 2Rx4, it's even smaller than the difference between different memory vendors(3-6GB/s). I would not say that Hynix need to die or Samsung rules, it's just this little difference doesn't matter. The problem is, many KZbin people are P-hacking or even selecting the result to create a "significant" result, and we can never replicate them ourselves. This is not a good trend.

[@cptobivious]

29min video from a 1 sec clip never change m8

[@vlmxs]

Did I understood correctly that for 8Gb sodimm stick I have to look for a PCB that has 8 memory chips on it? And if it has 4 memory chips soldered, I have to pass on it?

[@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking]

if you care about performance you want 8 mem chips minimum.

[@OMGJL]

for DDR4, 8GB sticks yes. For DDR4 16G sticks no. For DDR3 no.

[@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking]

@@OMGJL 16Gb X16 SDP chips exist.

[@vlmxs]

@@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking thank you

[@OMGJL]

@@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking I was on about 2Gx8 16Gbits single rank 16G sticks.

[@falco3899]

If we ignore the difficulty to overclock 4 sticks vs 2 sticks and ignore that x16 sticks maybe worse in overclocking the x8 sticks: What happens if you use 4 Sticks of single rank x16 in dual channel? Would it be similar to 2 single rank sticks at x8? Thou do the groups available per channel add up? Or do the ranks add up and 4 sticks of single rank x16 is equal to 2 sticks of dual rank x8? Or is 4 sticks of single rank x16 even worse than 2 sticks of dual rank x8?

[@Skungalunga]

"Why is everything is like by the power of 2" 😶

[@oOIPaBoIOo]

i think they meant, that, once you open the box, you can still decide to return that stick and get another for your desktop build. whereas in a laptop, you need to actually open up the thing, which 90% of users are not confident in doing, to even KNOW what is in there.

[@staz3014]

You can use harwareinfo to check what ram modules are in your system without having to open it. It's not hard.

[@oOIPaBoIOo]

@@staz3014 nowhere in hwinfo64 do i see such information

[@afuliu]

I wonder is this mean 2Rx8 is better than 1Rx8 module 2Rx8: www.kingston.com/dataSheets/HX432C16FB3_16.pdf 1Rx8: www.kingston.com/dataSheets/HX432C16FB4_16.pdf

[@bigal2688]

As if Single rank and dual rank and Fast timings and loose timings and should I get 32 gig (2x16) or (4x8) wasn't all confusing enough for us "Ram Normies", Now we have this Too! LOL! Thanks Buildzoid, so Basically, More Banks = Better! 👍😎

[@emuclone154]

2x16 fyi

[@bigal2688]

@@emuclone154 See, this is where I get confused? Isn't 4x8 dual rank/dual channel better? Wouldn't this now give you the maximum number of Banks? Or is this something completely different? 🤔🧐🤔

[@mazdasp33d6]

@@bigal2688 2x16 can still be dual channel, dual rank. The 4x8 has each stick be single rank so it adds up to being dual rank per channel. Most 16GB sticks are dual rank themselves (there are some single rank micron Rev B 16GB sticks) so it still ends up being dual rank per channel. 2x16 vs 4x8 to me is more about the memory topology of the mobo. T topology can run 4x8 better and daisy chain can run 2x16 better. Most x570 and b550 boards are daisy chain (asrock still uses t topology on a few boards) so if you are on amd, 2x16 is more likely to work at higher speeds.

[@skoopsro7656]

linus tech tips could have done a better explanation. Thanks buildzoid

[@texasslingleadsomtingwong8751]

Linus really would struggle to retain average user attention , without rgb hypnosis . But seeing you commenting in here , indicates very clearly , you are no average user . So Linus would not be able to satisfy you level of information . But he is entertaining , and peeked your curiosity as well as mine.

[@skoopsro7656]

@@texasslingleadsomtingwong8751 comment was written to help drive engagement metrics.

[@alistairblaire6001]

I swear it used to be super easy to find detailed info on any ram stick by its serial number

[@texasslingleadsomtingwong8751]

I was hoping to see you dive into this topic.

[@todayonthebench]

I will partly have to disagree that "all by 16 chips have two bank groups". There is nothing inherent in them being 16 bit wide that dictates that they must only have 2 bank groups. The DDR4 standard has set aside address space for up to 4 bank groups, it is up to the manufacturer if they wish to support that or not. Why most manufacturers don't build by 16 chips with all 16 banks in 4 groups is a good question however. I personally wouldn't blame the 16 bit wide nature of the chip, but rather the RAM manufacturers for also cost cutting a bit on their side as well. Since with fewer bank groups, there is also a need for fewer comparators for reading the bit state of the bit lines in the array. And comparators takes a fair bit of space on the chip. Ie, they are an expensive part of DRAM. A critical part though. I would be surprised if this were the case in the VRAM world. Since video memory for GPUs is typically fairly wide as well, sometimes even 32 bits per chip. For VRAM I would not be surprised if they even made support for having 16 or more bank groups just for the heck of it... Since memory calls on GDDR tends to be a fairly long burst accessing a fair bit of data for each memory call.

[@NVMDSTEvil]

Wish someone would do some performance testing for servers with double density chips.

[@dienand_]

Nice video, I try to keep educated on these topics but it’s scary how quickly I forget intricate details over time.

[@Almighty_Flat_Earth]

2:09 use Brave browser, you won't regret.