Adam Szabo Viper VS DSP56300 Emulator (Access Virus B/C)

A quick video in which I compare how Adam Szabo's Viper VST sounds compared to the DSP56300 Emulator (an emulator that can read ROM from the Virus B/C).
The difference between the two is that Viper is a virtual emulation that Adam Szabo made himself from scratch, by carefully analyzing the Virus TI and then proceed to replicate it as closely as he could by coding his own virtual instrument in Flowstone.
DSP56300 is an emulator that emulates the Motorola 563xx DSP. This emulator allows you to run the ROM data/code from the Virus B/C. In turn, this gives you an authentic playback of the Virus B/C.
The benefit of the DSP56300 is that it gives you an authentic playback of the Virus B/C, but it requires a lot of processing power currently to do so. Viper on the other hand requires far less CPU, but it runs its own custom code which isn't exactly the same as the Virus B/C/TI. Thus, there will be some differences in sound. But considering that Viper is an emulation and not an emulator, it sounds impressively close.
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[@EyezerProductionz]

Adam Szabo Viper VS Virus TI: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nnvHdH-EbZx3p9U

[@jno8039]

I feel the dsp emulator can go far away with some cool modulation on the lfo and the Viper can't reproduce them

[@EyezerProductionz]

@@jno8039 Viper has the standard waveforms for the LFOs only, meanwhile the DSP56300 also has the wave waveforms.

[@jno8039]

@@EyezerProductionz Yes I'm aware. Adam answered me he planing to add the osc grain/formant and the waveforms on the lfo.

[@EyezerProductionz]

@@jno8039 Awesome. The grain/formant oscillators I look forward to. They are great for electric piano sounds, especially since the Virus TI has phase modulation.

[@theblowupdollsmusic]

Thank you for taking the time to do this comparison.

[@EyezerProductionz]

No worries! Thanks for watching.

[@EdoardoMarcora]

DSP56300 runs on Windows, macOS, and Linux. Viper is only available for Windows.

[@FeFe089]

Definitely need a TI version from the Emulator!😬

[@EyezerProductionz]

There is a TI version of the DSP56300, however it is unavailable to the public since the Vius TI2 is still being sold.

[@th3soundmachinz]

So, out of the two synthesizers here, which one is better for virus emulation? Do they both take a lot of CPU, and which one runs on less CPU usage?

[@EyezerProductionz]

The DSP56300 emulators are much better than Viper because they literally run the same firmware as the real Virus synths do. The downside of the DSP56300 emulators is the firmwares (ROM) that you need for the emulators to output any audio are copyrighted. You still need to own a Virus synth in order to use these emulators, otherwise it is a copyright violation (no different to using warez). I myself only use the Virus emulators because I own a Virus TI, but I will not try the Waldorf and Nord Lead emulators since I don't want to risk getting a copyright strike from Waldorf or Clavia. Viper is an emulation that runs custom code. It can sometimes get very close to the real deal, while sometimes it sounds off, imo. If you buy Viper, you won't have to worry about copyright issues. I'd say Viper is likely the more CPU friendly synth. I personally have no issues running DSP56300 or Viper.

[@th3soundmachinz]

@EyezerProductionz Oh, okay, I see. I understand. So, the DSP is overall a better emulator than the Viper, right? Well, what CPU do you have? And what's the difference between the Viper and the DSP? Because they're both Virus TI emulators, right? So they should be, like, sort of the same. They look a little similar. I sadly do not own a Virus TI, so I need to see which one's right for me. I want to see if I can be able to run the DSP in any way. But, as how you said, I need to own a Virus Synth in order to run the emulation.

[@EyezerProductionz]

I have an AMD Ryzen 7 5700X3D 8-Core Processor CPU. No, they are not the same. DSP56300 is the result of reverse engineering the Motorola DSP56K processors, which were used in the Virus synths. When you combine the emulator (as a .dll file) with the firmware (.bin file), you'll be able to get authentic audio feedback from the emulators. It sounds identical to the Virus B/C/TI hardware. It is similar to how a game console emulator works, or a virtual machine, sort of. Viper is a custom synth that Adam Szabo made by writing his own code using the framework Flowstone (afaik he used assembly and ruby programming languages, but don't quote me on that). With DSP56300, you literally use the original Virus firmware, thus you use the real Virus sound engine. Viper's sound engine is custom made from scratch and it is based on the Virus TI, both in terms of features and sound characteristics. It is an emulation, i.e an attempt to replicate the original synth from scratch with custom code. Viper lacks some features of the original synth, but it also has features the original synth lacks. DSP56300 is an exact copy of the original synth, while Viper offers more customization (you can import custom waveforms and wavetables for instance).

[@th3soundmachinz]

@@EyezerProductionz Oh, okay. I see. So the DSP is more accurate. The thing is for me, I want something that's a little more CPU-friendly, because I might be working with big projects in the future, and I simply want to find something that's kind of close to the Virus TI, but it isn't exactly one-to-one. Since the DSP requires more CPU power to run, I'm probably just going to stick to the Viper for that Virus TI sound. I would be curious in the future for the DSP emulation, once I get a laptop that has an AMD, because with my experience with all Intel i7s, they end up throttling so hard. There's crazy lag spikes even for basic tasks. But that's only with Intel from my experience. I'll keep looking more into Virus emulations, but thank you for all of the information and feedback 😁👍🏼

[@RayTheProducer]

As close as it is, I think Viper deserves some sort of award, or at the very least our support. I for one am ok not having to put up with the kinda neurotic DSP code as a plug-in.

[@EyezerProductionz]

Me if anyone has supported Viper. Back in 2018-2019 I was pretty much the only guy making content with Viper. I've made several soundbanks that people can buy if they want to.

[@Dubb1000]

Can you midi map your Access synthesizer to all the controls in the VSt? I'm thinking of buying an Access synth, but I want it to work fully digitally with my DAW. So basically, I want to control the VST emulator using an actual Access synthesizer. I'm new to this synth stuff, and I'm shooked that there aren't a lot of midi synthesizer controllers out there that can be paired with VST emulators. I've only come across a company called Soundforce, which make midi controllers for classic synth vst emulators like the Prophet, Prophet 5, Mini Moog and Juno, etc. Also, finding this Access emulator stuff is amazing. I just want to make sure I buy the right synthesizer to use for a like for like VST emulator. I was going to buy a Deepmind 12D, but, sadly, there's no VST emulator out the for it.

[@EyezerProductionz]

I haven't tried it. I barely do any midi mapping at all. I do most of my patch programming virtually within a VST.

[@Dubb1000]

@@EyezerProductionz Thanks for the quick reply. I downloaded Osirus a few minutes ago, but there wasn't any options to midi map. I'm used to using my mouse to tweak settings in VST's too. But wanted some synergy between software (VST) and hardware (Access Synth). I'm hoping this is possible. I'll message the developers about Access hardware integration with their VST.

[@sogyra]

Both are very good plugins! Osirus sounds a little better, but in the mix it doesn't really matter. But I would wish that Viper would be improved. In Synthedit it should be possible. If Viper has been improved then i buy it. Until then I'll play with the "illegal?" Virus

[@EyezerProductionz]

What improvements would you like to see in Viper?

[@sogyra]

@@EyezerProductionz @Jorge Sanchez wrote: "Adam answered me he planing to add the osc grain/formant and the waveforms on the lfo"

[@EyezerProductionz]

​@@sogyra I've seen Adam's video on the grain/formant oscillators. Unfortunately, it seems like he is only going for the simple grain/formant oscillators so far. The complex version is much better. But the LFO waveforms is very interesting though.

[@sogyra]

@@EyezerProductionz OK good to know! I have to keep looking to see if there are any other alternatives to the virus. I really liked the sound of Viper. I've heard the differences though. While DSP56300 sounds better, it's not entirely legal. Access doesn't seem to do anything about it either. It's tough...

[@EyezerProductionz]

@@sogyra As far as I know, there are no other Virus alternatives for the time being. I ended up buying a real Virus TI2 to solve that problem. Maybe Behringer will make a Virus clone someday.

[@saucymoon7134]

which pack has the hybrid js patch in it?

[@EyezerProductionz]

It's from the Virus C Series ROM Banks I downloaded from Access website, more specifically virusc_bank_f.mid. It is however in the F bank in the Virus C ROM too.

[@TheAlchemistRecords]

What are the cpu specs to run the DSP56300 without getting audio crackling and pops and the sort. The one in the video seems to run nice and smooth. Everyone would like to know. :)

[@EyezerProductionz]

The ideal specs to run the DSP56300 I don't know since my knowledge about CPUs is limited. But I use an Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-7820X CPU @ 3.60GHz CPU. My PC is a custom build but it wasn't me who built it. The DSP56300 still causes audio crackling even with my CPU, but it depends on the patch. If you use few global unison voices and low release times, the CPU load will be lower.

[@TheAlchemistRecords]

@@EyezerProductionz Kewl Thanks

[@kzm4275]

I managed to get 30 instances of DSP56300 running on an AMD 5900X with 64GB of fast RAM, 90+% CPU loaded, minimal to almost no crackles. On the other hand, I can get only 12 instances of Viper with the same patch, before it starts to crackle...

[@thestever]

@@kzm4275 is there a difference in the amt of voices you can get with either in one instance? On my 2019 mac mini i get some dropouts after 5 simultaneous voices playing on some patches

[@tomasmeneses2552]

Runs fine in a Ryzen 5 2600X - 16 GB RAM I've tested with 3 running at the same time and got almost 30% usage, no crackles

[@TheArtOfCool]

How are you loading all those banks in? I thought it could only read .bin files ?

[@EyezerProductionz]

The .bin file is the ROM file, which contains the synth code/data that makes up the Virus. The DSP56300 needs the .bin file in order to load. The other files you see are .mid files, which is one of the formats the Virus uses to store patches. There are already patches stored in the ROM, but with .mid files I can browse through them more easily. I load them simply by going to the file directory the .mid files are located in (in my case they're located in the Virus TI folder since I own a real Virus TI).

[@TheArtOfCool]

You got any patch banks you could share ?I have a hardware Virus synth as well. Best synth ever made. Figured out how to load .mid files. I have mostly TI patches and those things just suffer badly on this emulator. I guess a B and C Virus’s only has so much polyphony and power.

[@EyezerProductionz]

@TheArtOfCool My own banks will remain private. The other banks I have I downloaded on the Virus website. You'll find plenty B/C soundbanks on there that will be fully compatible with the DSP56300 Osirus. For TI patches you should use the DSP56300 Ostirus.

[@edm6645]

why not for Mac ?

[@EyezerProductionz]

Because Flowstone, the framework Adam Szabo used to make Viper only works for Windows.

[@JayOneAlumni]

how come when i load roms i dont get the patch display on the right like you do?

[@EyezerProductionz]

You have to load .mid files in order to get the patches to appear the way they do in the video.

[@JayOneAlumni]

@@EyezerProductionz yup i figured it out right after i posted this lol. thanks for the response, i appreciare it.

[@tomymeeson1]

@@EyezerProductionz possibly a stupid question but where would I obtain the .mid files from please? Thanks in advance.

[@EyezerProductionz]

@Tom Meeson To get official patches, you need a real Virus because a membership on virus.info requires you to register a Virus synth in order to get the membership, which is required in order to download the patches. That is where I got my patches from. But I think there are plenty of free third party soundbanks in .mid format online, Google around a bit.

[@iWhy_Music]

DSP56300 is fatter and moer analog, viper is having more digital hi end, but DSP is buggy, I have one, the whole progect has some cracks from time to time and the CPU, from time to time goes from 0 to 15 without reason, no signal is played!

[@Janomix]

Osirus has more body, like real hardware.

[@BFHPET]

i see the DSP56300 is free but does it require the ti hardware?

[@EyezerProductionz]

Depends on what you mean. To run the emulator itself, no you don't need the physical hardware. You need the ROM file, which can be found online (but since it is copyrighted, I can't provide any links). The ROM file is a .bin file which you put in your VST folder together with the Osirus/Ostirus .dll file and then you scan it and launch it in your DAW. If your question is related to the legality of the DSP56300 emulator, it is not legal to use the emulator commercially because the ROM is copyrighted. I don't know if this still applies if you own a real Virus, you're better off asking the DSP56300 devs about it.

[@BFHPET]

@@EyezerProductionz okay thank you i tried download it yesterday and it said something whit the rom were ileagel to use and that, so that makes sense now so if i just use for home use there isnt a problem but is the rom from ti free to download?

[@EyezerProductionz]

@@BFHPET Legally I would say it is a gray zone. The ROM is copyrighted (thus downloading it is piracy), but the products (in this case Virus B/C/TI) are discontinued. As long as you use these emulators for your own private non-commercial use, then there is not much to worry about. Access seem to be fine with these emulators as long as you use them responsibly. The ROM is free to download but you'll have to search for it yourself on Google, I can not provide any links (and I remove comments that tell people where to find the ROM, to respect the rules of the DSP56300 community).

[@BFHPET]

@@EyezerProductionz i just stay away from it i might just buy the viper it sound good

[@EyezerProductionz]

​@@BFHPET I think buying Viper is your best option if you want a Virus like VST for a cheap price while not having to worry about violating copyright. Viper was my go-to VST for a few years, most of what I know about synthesis I learned by using Viper.

[@piet245]

Osiris no support import own wavetables

[@benrobinson7931]

That is because it is a Virus OS emulator and that the original didn't support that either. Osiris most likely will not have a feature added, only exact copies.

[@Mandy-Lane]

the emulator got an ugly interface but it sounds good but i think iper sounds little better

[@WARDISWARD]

Well you don't know what you're talking about The dsp emulator runs the EXACT same dsp code as the original virus , the dsp code ( which makes up the filters , effects, oscillators etc ..) is found in the bin file. This file is then loaded and executed by the (motorolla )cpu emulator , iow the only difference between the dsp project and a real virus are the physical DAC outputs . The code and thus soundgeneration is IDENTICAL ! The adam Szabo sounds also nearly identical but it does NOT execute the same dsp code

[@VincentZauhar]

@@WARDISWARD The fact that the emulator is literally the virus doesn't mean that you can't prefer the sound of Viper! :P Though I also prefer the emulator's sound.