Wing Chun: Bil Gee Form breaks all the rules - Kung Fu Report

While Wing Chun's first and the second form prepares you for the winning part of a combative performance, the third Wing Chun form teaches you about occasions that you are most likely to lose. Sifu Wong Shun Leung taught me how to understand the Wing Chun third form correctly and that is what I want to share with you in today's Kung Fu Report. How to use the Bil Tze form when a situation gets bad? Lets check it out together.
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[@draperw86]

Wow this is great , not only for martial arts but for life too. I used to ask my instructor all these what if questions but the way you break it down makes total sense.

[@samuski36]

Six months into my wc training my sifu had us start doing groundwork. About half the class declined, but I started off wrestling as a kid so I ate it up! Wing Chun on the ground made perfect sense to me! Sadly I never made it to Biu Jee, someday!

[@flykyrt81]

This open endedness applies to ALL types of martial arts. For me at least, it puts the idea of the applications of the Kata and/or Taolu into a new perspective.

[@ten5487]

I love this type of video. Succinct, informative, and real life subject matter.

[@curtisweber5257]

I wish KZbin had a gradient like system 'cause I Love every video I see Adam in!

[@kidyusei413]

Wise as always Master Chan! Love your words and channel! I’m glad I’ve actually been training Wing Chun for 2 years and it’s so ironic and funny I was the same way you were initially too! I was like “Ooh I can’t wait to learn Biu Ji and Muk Yan Jong! I should be so skilled by then!”. Luckily I have the pleasure of having a skilled Sifu that encourages freedom and learning any form we like and coming to him with any questions. Thanks to him I’ve learned all the forms so far except Baat Jaam Dao (learning currently, did all the movements just have to memorize now) and even after reading the Wing Chun Compendium Vol 1 and Vol 2, even Sifu Belanoha doesn’t advise relying on Biu Ji; he even noted the highest skill would actually be to be able to prevent a losing situation at all using the beginning forms if possible, therefore Siu Nim Tao and Cham Kiu are paramount. I actually respect but admittedly fell out of love and excitement I had after learning Biu Ji and now i just focus on getting my Siu Nim Tao and Chum Kiu as perfect as possible. The irony is after learning all the forms, going full circle and after some internal reflection, Siu Lim Tao may actually be my now personal favorite

[@johndough8115]

You sound as if you are saying, that merely learning the form itself... is what is most important. The form is merely the introduction... aside from SNT.. which has a Tai Chi training element in it, if trained correctly (Three Prayers to Buddha section, trained slowly.. and entire form repeated 4 times in a row... for 1hr sessions). Having a perfect form is important.. as it shows you are capable of doing clean movements.. but its being able to APPLY these things in sparring, "cleanly" ,that matter most of all. It doesnt matter how well you do Tan Sau in the air.. if you cant seem to apply it in sparring.. without it failing to look and act, like it does in the form, and drills. And of course, knowing how to apply WC to non WC attacks, is also a critical thing that needs to be learned, and developed. The ancient fighters didnt tend to attack like a boxer.. for good reasons.. however.. thats how many people fight today.

[@JasonLaveKnotts]

Fighting from a disadvantage is an advanced skill.

[@uglystupidloser]

man i love the way this guy approaches and breaks down the topics

[@Don-James]

IMO: the Biu Jee is best thought of as having a focus of surviving, rather than "loosing"; it changes the idea about fighting- to win; but that when people fight, they are always gambling with loss, more than victory... David Peterson has said that the dummy form is kind of open-ended as well; 'It could be added to..." -D. Peterson He seems very adamant that the first and second forms are fixed, though... Also, this is an excellent discussion, thanks for posting Sifu Chan.

[@wes5163]

So much knowledge! I can’t wait to start learning!!!!

[@flow-like-water]

Thank you for such great educational content.

[@johndemaria9408]

Today’s military does the same type of training, by doing simulations to see how troops can utilize what they were trained for to see if the solders need further training. It is good to have a pragmatic look at what your doing to improve or validate your training.

[@benjaminbecker8508]

I'm always in awe about your knowledge and wisdom. You are one of the few real sifus, who emphasize the importance of proper structure, rooting, spiraling. So inspiring! Wish I had a fraction of your skills.

[@mikeruddell6091]

WOW! I now understand the form and love your logic.

[@kree8art395]

Really like this discussion.

[@tripleg1686]

You are right about this what most people don’t know or realize is that everything you have in the system is 1st form and the 2nd form in my opinion is the most important form of all. If you can comprehend Chum Ku you will have all kinds of trouble learning Wing Chun.

[@kobiecamp1134]

I think you meant to say can't.

[@jo-ln8oo]

Love your videos. One fatal flaw in schools of any style fail to test their abilities and ignore the psychological aspects of training or fighting. Duncan Leung always says regarding actual fighting is "good kung fu is ugly"

[@DatSuKid]

Sifu Gary Lam also agrees with the WSL and IP man that Biu Jee is an emergency pamphlet. I'm a fan of how up-front Wing Chun is about itself. You practice your fundamentals in the first two forms over and over again to get better and not chasing some cult-y deeper/higher level which may not exist.

[@JKDVIPER]

The third form is a mandatory form or third part of the training. Along with that we have chi sao sections and mook jong sections. The forms were taught as one form originally. The shaolin way they called it. Not only that. But we use BUI GEE in the SIL LIM TAO and CHUM KIU. To believe that BUI GEE is only when you’re loosing is wrong. It does imply a COUNTER ATTACK that’s how it starts off. But truly so, the finger jab is used exclusively in GOOD KUNG FU. Ask anybody who knows.

[@garytotherow1627]

Nice honestly said, I actually go through sil nim tao on my wooden dummy using Grand master Pan Nam technique, and I find the dummy teaching me different moves the more I practice

[@leonardocordova4542]

Very wise Words! Thank you very much for today's Lesson!

[@MrMytake]

I"m learning the third form right now. Great topic, good to know

[@jasonkeaton5140]

I never knew that about biu gee. I learned it from my second teacher but he never explained it that way.good stuff

[@ruiseartalcorn]

Great discussion. Many thanks :)

[@kinseylloyd]

you're a special man, very deep material. thank you.

[@benedictchin8799]

Greetings Mr Chan, thank you for insight. It adds value to WC👍🏾

[@charaznable9209]

You are 100% right about the basics being the best stuff for fighting, I feel this is the case for most martial arts actually. Why do a backflip and a somersault to kick someone in the head when you can just do a simple straight kick from a standing position? Yeah sure the former shows more skill and looks cooler but in an actual fight does nothing but telegraph and leave you vulnerable to being countered. I've seen a lot of black belts get so caught up in trying to learn "fancy" or "advanced" moves that they completely neglected the basics and couldn't handle simple blocks.

[@gyran300]

Great teachings!

[@thomasbayer2832]

Awesome!

[@kobiecamp1134]

On the contrary Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu doesn't seem to train for the ground because they failed to keep the fight standing. But instead they seem to train for the ground because that's where they aim for the fight to go.

[@jacobharris954]

Well know no Bjj comes from judo

[@ProjUltraZ]

great explanation at my school, they didnt teach Biu Gee until after two years maybe because of the eye strikes and how diff it is to the first two sets, but it was always explained as - how to get out of emergency situations. and yes, even the eye strike part is better used as a cutting line

[@JianJinWingChun]

Loved this, thank you Master Chan. My Shifu taught me Bil Gee after 7 years of studying SLT, CK, Chi Sao and Qi Gong. As you say, Bil Gee is a last resort. It's like going nuclear when there's a genuine risk of death or permanent damage, such situations we spend years developing through the system to avoid.

[@andrewmason8691]

This is one of the few videos of Adam's that I disagree with. All the forms include movements which are recovering from bad positions. IMHO, the main difference between each of the empty hands forms is power. CK builds on the force of SLT with shifting, pivoting and more vectors of force. BJ builds on the force of CK with more vectors of forces again. BJ is the most powerful form, but SLT builds the foundation of this power.

[@whaddayawant2197]

When my sifu started another school unbeknownst to me he taught me bil jee first as an experiment. Idk what he learned from that ( he said it made no difference). But i think having an understanding f the first two forms is essential for bil jee. Your explinations are very knowledgeable and wish i had these insights 20yrs ago before i got frustated with my teachings. Top notch wing chun!

[@PooleAcademyofWingChun]

This is spot on , I learnt this concept from Gary lam that it is used as a last resort in a fight

[@admarquis]

Very enlightening, great subject matter, thank you for sharing 🙇😁😊🙏🙋

[@lionmartialartsacademy4014]

Good explanation. That’s how I’ve been taught to look at it as well, basically if you using biu gee you losing, so more advanced fighters I use more biu gee concepts but beginners and new students or people not really as good as me slt and ck suffices, simple straight punches and kicks are fine. Good teaching! 🙇🏿‍♂️

[@zavant]

Great video. I'd say the 3rd form is extraordinarily sophisticated, even if it's not advanced. Takes a lot of experience & insight to make something that simple & useful.

[@wingchun-sc]

I have always looked at the third form as "recovery from a bad position", from the idea that even the best can be bested. We all have bad days, or stumble, or meet someone better than ourselves (humility). As such, you can end up in a bad position, so how do you recover from that. I get what Sifu Chan is saying, and I agree. However, I think we have to consider it an advanced form - not in the techniques, but in the learning sequence. We have to have the previous forms to have what we will recover to. It is an advanced idea to consider we might fail.

[@charlesdick4026]

Wisdom....Charles

[@rhodrimorice7746]

Maybe all the forms are equal? Does it really matter if we label things as advanced or less advanced? In reality they all serve a valid purpose.

[@wingchun-sc]

@@rhodrimorice7746 It matters (beginner vs advanced) in that would dictate the sequence presented and learned, as I suggested in my comment. I mean, sure, they are all equal in that you really should learn them all. But you need the foundation to deal with the more difficult issues. So, strictly from the perspective of progression, it would matter.

[@wade8130]

Did he just mention Grand Master Wang Jurong, the daughter of Wang Ziping? I had lessons with her years ago in Houston. Or maybe I misheard...? Great lady and a wonderful teacher.

[@fightefx]

Makes great sense now to me

[@michaelspyrou1784]

perfect.

[@BoydJames]

SPOT ON!!!!!!! in every possible way

[@user-fl1ir7vh8z]

Among my group we called Bil Jee the "oh sh*t" form.

[@tc47101]

Rất hay 😊😊👍

[@curtrod]

好师傅！

[@prfu1222]

When I learned the 3rd form. Sifu said you are now going to learn emergency moves. He actually encouraged us to learn some judo or jiujitsu. And his reason was to understand how to loose and how to regain back to winning. It takes you out of your element.

[@ianweir2115]

Wow! I had 2 Sifu who were under my master that asked separately after they drilled me over and over. I asked..why are we not moving on to bil jee? They both said do you want to learn slow? First 2 forms and dummy? Or quickly see the whole system? Hmmmm. I always said..the slow way. They both smiled. Which meant I picked the correct answer. They never explained why. Now 20nyears later... I know why. Than you Sifu .

[@calebworden2993]

Butt iron shirt Qigong doesn't have to be used for that it's also good for taking hits when you're not losing

[@hoaxialcable]

Kung Fu brother Adam, what do you recommend for someone who doesn't really understand the applications of SLT and CK in a real life situation? I mean I get how a bong sao or pak sao can effectively block a punch but what about all the other movements? Like in a street fight how would a tan sao or fuk sao benefit you?

[@robertmiller2822]

It’s all comes back around.

[@kobiecamp1134]

As far as I'm concerned I'm either going to conquer my opponent, or enemy. Or at least put fourth so much defense where he can't conquer me even if I also can't conquer him. But losing is not a option.

[@calebworden2993]

No I didn't actually show me how hard to hit or anything important he just told me you could do it and he told me where you at Target

[@calebworden2993]

But I don't know how to do them

[@JKDVIPER]

0:26 it’s not advanced at all. We have BUI GEE in the TAO and CHUM KIU as well. BUI is just another hand we are taught. It’s a recovery hand. It gives us the center back. It points to the tunnel. Tan is better when they’re using a lot of force forward. Try it sometime. You’ll see.

[@kobiecamp1134]

I'm always playing the if game when it comes to preparing for what might happen if things go wrong. And I really don't care about the percentages of it happening. I just care about the fact that it can happen.

[@EliteBlackSash]

Hakka systems train extensively in Partner Drilling (Two Man and even Three Man) from the “losing” or disadvantageous position, countering the tactics of those who desire to stick and trap, as well as working from the “gotten” position in a lock (Anti-Qin Na but not from the bridge, from inside the lock) and the difference in body mechanics and generation when you do NOT have perfect structure / conditions / positioning. Even further, there is a lot of HITTING. The chongs you get hit, hard. Kicked in the chest, smashed on the forearms, choked and lifted off your feet, punched in the gut, grinded on the arm, shoulder checked, bashed on the back, palm checked, pushed, pulled, swept, hit in the front and back of the hand. Of course, you don’t injure your partner… but it’s non-theoretical, you get hit and you’ve gotta take it and deal with it, it’s part of the Two Man Drills. It’s not like Karate though, it’s more like Muay Thai. If you go hard on your partner, those Thai Fighters won’t go near you ever again. They understand preserving your longevity is the yin to the yang of training realistically - that’s why they’re still lethal in their 70s lol.

[@Sankara-Setu-Mutanda-75]

As a beginner we are more likely to loose yet not taught Biu Jee technique. After 4 years I was given a little glimmer of Biu Jee. Still teachers do not share this generously there must be a reason?😂😂🙏🏾

[@willms7173]

I don't practice wing chun, but I imagine that it is different for a beginner to be in a losing situation, than for someone with good "kung fu."

[@dimigeorg1044]

The problem with wing chun was and still is in some organisations that you are not allowed to train with the wooden dummy if you are a beginner at say 6 student level. Why when with my level of knowledge it helps to understand the angles and techniques? The same with the three forms, why do I have to wait until the 1 technician degree to learn the two forms. When as you say I am losing and have to try to get out of the situation. Why. Do I only learn to stand up to three attackers at the 10th student grade when I can be attacked by three attackers after one year. Wouldn't it be better to practise with the little knowledge you have against three attackers? Wing chun has not arrived in this day and age and needs to be adapted. Be it the programmes or the approach.

[@_....J........................]

13:45 - this is good "materialist" philosophy (the dialectics of mental-abstractions and concrete-reality), for eg: "Bricolage" (C. Levi-Stauss) "the fallacy of misplaced concreteness" (A. N. Whitehead); "reification fallacy" (K. Marx); "Dasein" (M. Heidegger); Spooky Action at a Distance (A. Einstein), "Poetics of Relation" (E. Glissant). A lot these ideas are also expressed in familiar ways in Daoism and Confuscianism, and Black and Indigenous radical-theory too. Unfortunately, we live in a world that is hegemonically, Kantian - "common sense" arrow-like: the multiple circular ways of being, subjugated to the illusion of "progress" in the march of the atomic clock.

[@benquinneyiii7941]

Triangles are strong

[@DrTzeus]

Glad you said it...Thank You. If we never loose, we could just train on punching bags and dummy arms. Wing Chun, "By women, for women,...to use against men" is based on thinking like we are at a losing disadvantage to begin with. If this doesn't win, then what? Chi Sau is based on this same concept, that a punch is "blocked" and must convert to a new angle or different technique, that if the limb is jammed up we are pushed around the jam-up into our footwork...if a punch is not blocked? We win! So we are not training to fight that person then are we? I will add my opinion. The third form can be an "advancement" on the Chum Kiu fighters training, in the progressive training model. If students understand the truth about loosing, they can make a fork in the road here. One path continues to perfect and improve their fighting to win against opposition with new methods such as the whipping effect in the hook punch(for your recent video), the Jut underneath, the different elbows and kicks, etc. These methods need the Chum Kiu kickboxing structures as a good foundation. The other fork in the road explores what you focus on in this video. One road continues to build on the structures, the other "new" road learns what to do when the structure is lost or not availible. I think most good schools teach this stuff as part of Chum Kiu anyway, when the student is ready, as the third form is not really needed to build this way. Since we need the structure first, in order to abandon it, it is important to not start the form until we have such a foundation in our muscle memory.

[@johndough8115]

Wing Chun was never developed by a Woman... nor For a woman. That story was made up by the secret society rebellion forces, that were trying to take down the govt. of that Era. The story was designed to hide the Roots of where it came from. While WC can be used to overcome larger and stronger OPs... the reality is, that most females are incapable of taking on even the smallest of male fighters. Especially back in that Era.. where the males started training how to fight as early as 3yrs old. There is a Chinese dude, Benny Meng, that did extensive research, trying to find any and all reference to the name "Wing Chun". No such person, nor family name... has ever existed, in Chinese History. The name itself, is a Code-Word. It was to signify the beauty of defeating the enemies rule. As Wing Chun translates to "Beautiful Spring-Time".

[@DrTzeus]

@@johndough8115 BOTH stories are based on secret society fiction. I see you choose to pick the one that is against women and you appeal to the triad criminal society for the "truth." I have read Sifu Benny's report and it uses references which are not factual but merely oral stories reduced into a few "heros" and allowed to exist by the ruling men across time. Big strong man stuff...hard conditioning etc...appeals to the very authorities it claims the revolt was against? It is just as likely that the story of the Nun is all that is left of the equal rights movements buddhism produced over and over in China, thousands of temples destroyed, thousands of Nun's and monks and temple societies ended, women reduced to become the property of husbands over and over by Confucian Patriarchy. A famous White Crane husband and wife team openned a school in the 1800's teaching healing arts, reading and writing, math, and Buddhism as well as the fighting arts in the region. Ng Mui is traced to the White Crane Temple in Weng Chen provence too. Plenty of references that are ignored for only being half right, while the detractors then appeal to alternatives that reject women all together? Even if it is fiction, the point of the story remains. MOST MEN are no stronger than this famous warrior Nun, so the story is just a cover to keep the bullies away. They want the big strong man stuff and are affriad of girly arts, so us small boned short men can keep our secrets. Also, it It is a reminder that there is always a bigger and stronger enemy so we need to find success from other means. Consider even the famous pirate lady of the South China Sea, and how her influence would have been erased, or the famous thug madam and her gang mentioned by the British newspapers. These real people and their influence would not make good stories for children so it is possible the ficitional Nun and bethrothed little girl story is a clever fiction to allow it to be retold? The message remains, learn to fight from a positon of less strength and from a disadvantage. So I must ask why is it people are trying to say that is impossible?

[@johndough8115]

@@DrTzeus Part 2: "MOST MEN are no stronger than this famous warrior Nun" Highly Doubtful to the Extremes. At most.. these stories of female fighters.. were against weak male casuals, that had never trained a day of martial arts in their lives. "Big strong man stuff...hard conditioning etc...appeals to the very authorities it claims the revolt was against?" LOL. Dude... you dont get it. Hard conditioning, is a PART of combat. Without basic knuckle conditioning.. you cant even hit the OP in the head... without fracturing your knuckles. And a females weak wrist.. would Buckle with even Partial impact forces... let alone, a lack of bone density for fist contact. An attacker can easily do a light round kick to your shin.. and if you have no conditioning at all.. its game over. The pain will cause you to buckle and crumble to the ground. Your +6 yrs of combat training... all down the Toilet. This is combat Reality. It has nothing to do with Sexism... no matter how hard you want to try to pretend to be some sort of Virtual Keyboard Hero! Facts dont care about your FEELINGS. Even me, starting out as a weak, clumsy, thin boy.. knew that in order to become capable... that I would need to train to an EXTREME level. And it was proven to ME.. by every time I went up against larger and stronger OPs. The fights that lasted mere seconds, before suffering an Injury, causing by very MILD levels of forces. It didnt matter if I didnt like or want to train so hardcore... It was a fact of what was needed... and when DID such training... and reached a high level... I was able to survive and thrive, even under the heaviest of combat forces. I was able to deal with accidental collisions, without crumbling into a fetal positions. I was able to take heavy painful strikes... without dropping my guard, losing my form.. and falling apart. This is Combat Realism. This is Real Life / Nature / Physics. Nobody can Deny these truths... unless one is an Absolute and utter FOOL.

[@DrTzeus]

You call me a keyboard warrior but I found your channel has no video's? You seem to only know frail and weak women so I feel sorry for you. Only a fool brags like you do and thinks we would believe a word of it on KZbin without video... You falsley believe you can prove yourself correct with stories about yourself and falsely believe that will somehow prove me wrong? This only shows, again, that you have no idea, didn't watch SiFu's video here, and that you do not understand the concept of seizing victory from defeat or training for when in a comprimised position. Have you seen my training partner? I have a hundred videos with him....outsizes me by over 100 lbs....but hey, what do I know? Do you even Chi Sau? Are you even aware how tiny Yip Man was? Get outa here with this trolling propaganda...

[@calebworden2993]

I bet this guy knows some of them

[@punkasspunks8547]

I kike your wingchun video very informative

[@benquinneyiii7941]

Multiple opponents

[@trondyne3513]

The whole system is open ended IMO... Learning recovery (Bui Jee) can be called advanced... You learn BJ later (advanced) because it can be used as a cheat or shortcut which negates basics... The Jong I never saw as for recovery...more for entry...

[@johndough8115]

The system is made in Stages. The first form is mostly Static... and teaches the main hand techs and methods. The 2nd level.. adds footwork to the hand-techs. The 3rd, adds more whole-body mass power movements, short range small circle movements, Finger strikes, ..and some other stuff. The Dummy... is mostly for training when you have no Partner. Its main feature, is so that you can get 100% accurate positioning in your movements. Meaning... you have to step the exact distance, so that your arms techs will be in the perfect spots. Then when you transition from one tech to another... again, you are forced to make the perfect footwork, turning, direction and distancing.. to land at the next position, in the exact correct distance and positions. If you are making mistake here... you are going to make a lot more mistakes... when under pressure, and against a non-static partner or enemy. The final feature of the dummy.. is that it USED to be made to Toughen your limbs... as the ORIGINAL dummy didnt have moving arms... and it was planted deep into the dirt... rather than on a spring frame. In this way... your kicks and arm collisions, developed your skin, bone and tissue density... as well as greater impact strength / potentials. The downside of this version of the dummy... was that since the arms didnt "Share" the center.. you have to take an Extra step for every movement, to adapt to the non-moving limbs positions. That created a lot of confusion... especially for a beginner.

[@brokeheartwolf3733]

🦉🦉🦉🦉

[@benquinneyiii7941]

You go to jail

[@leonardocordova4542]

Very wise Words! Thank you very much for today's Lesson!

[@benjaminbecker8508]

Awesome!